Wait...What? Part 3

Special guest Pastor Andy Searles is on the FeedSheep Podcast for Part 3, contrasting the "you have heard it said" and the "but I tell you" statements of Jesus in Matthew 5. This 3-part series may free you from generational bondage that is keeping you from thriving. #ThriveinChrist

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Dan Schilling: 0:07

Hey, welcome to the FeedSheep podcast where we help you hear God's voice, follow his lead and thrive as a disciple. I'm Dan Schilling and I'll be one of your guides. Now let's get into today's topic. Hey, thanks for joining the Feed Sheep podcast today, we're gonna pick up on part three of the conversation I had with Pastor end circles here in the studio. This, again was just powerful time, just the revelation that God was bringing. I know it was a great encouragement to me. And I believe it will be to you on your journey to here. Follow. So we're going to pick back up from our conversation here where pastor Andy was talking about every perpetrator first tune in to hear what his response to the next one too, but just let's talk about

Andy Searles: 0:55

um, now you put me on the spot. Oh, my memory doesn't work? Well. No, I think I think what we're talking about was every perpetrator, yes. was first a victim. Yes. And so we see people who hurt us. Yes. Right.

Dan Schilling: 1:11

As the perpetrator, right, how dare you and

Andy Searles: 1:14

and you need to be punished. And I'm gonna be the one who does that. But what that does is that makes us the perpetrator. Right? And, and we fight fire with fire, right? We fight Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. And it just gets slightly bigger. Right? You know that every wall in history has started with an issue, like your pickleball. Paddle. Right? And it just gets bigger and bigger and you start to bring in more people. Yeah, well, you're Oh, yeah. Well, you're in right. And before you know it, right. You're living in a way over? Yeah. But Jesus says no, no, we, we this de escalate. Conflict. Yes. Because the escalating by the way of love is the loving thing.

Dan Schilling: 2:01

Yes. Well, that night, as I was walking in repentance, trying to that day, and just think, God, forgive me, I don't, I don't want to walk in that. And what I'm realizing more and more, Andy is that he was saying, you can't do this on your own, out of your flesh, you can't love unless you're being with me, my Holy Spirit imparted to you, you don't have it in Utah, love her, you don't have the ability on your in your flesh to not strike back. But when I think about in Galatians, he's talking about the fruits of the Spirit. And don't we aren't doing good, because the harvest of blessing is in six. Don't worry, you're doing good. Or, you know, you'll reap a harvest and blessing if you don't give up. And there's so many times I think for many of us, who are here today, and we're thinking about these relationships and people that this has happened could be our wives could be with our children could be with our family members or work coworkers or people around us. And we it's and they're as my son's if they're living rent free in our head. They're like, Oh, no, I want to get back at them. And I want to. And so for us today we again, I want to say how do you how do we even when it gets

Andy Searles: 3:22

man? Sure. Well, for me. It's about hiring down not powering up some more, right? Someone will insult me. Maybe to my face, maybe through gossip means your media right now. And as part of me that wants to stick out my chest power up. I say. Yeah, right. How did right? And honestly, I I'm not proud of this. I'm very embarrassed to say this. My kids ago, this kind of nickname for me that they've used a couple of times. It's very embarrassing. You know, the Fraser is such a Karen. Right? Yeah. Karen is someone who goes and complains to the manager, right? Because they didn't get their way. Right. They say oh, can Andrew could come? Which is kind of inherent and Andrew. Yeah. And it happens for me. And I one of my triggers is when there are broken systems, right? So my internet never seems to be working. So I'll get on the phone to the company. Right? Hey, it's not working. Oh, sorry about that right now. Like, let me speak to your manager. Oh, there's nothing we can do. Let me speak to manager I feel myself powering up right. But soon as I start powering down. Right, which means I don't need to be right on this. I've got no right to over assert myself or demand. Yeah, right. It's when I stopped powering down. I can be the kind of person that reflects Christ. As we solve problems. Yes. Right. To my ego power. Yes. I say no. Okay, that's not who I want. Okay, let's turn the volume down. Yes. Increase the volume on the human. Yes. And power down rather than power.

Dan Schilling: 5:06

Which to me again, what we're saying is like what Paul was saying that you would increase Holy Spirit in that I would increase power. Power me down. And you power because in myself I'm gonna be a complete yeah horses that's

Andy Searles: 5:22

that's exactly what Jesus don't do it don't

Dan Schilling: 5:25

enter into the ways or the flesh in this area because all it does is produce death Yeah. And yet inside we know what he's calling us to is that daily crucifying that flesh that wants to Yeah. Wow. Don't you know who you're talking to? You know, like,

Andy Searles: 5:43

yeah, yeah, and I find it useful to Hey, you hit me. I'm gonna hit you harder. Yes, power up. Jesus No, no power down. And the best way to practically power down is to do what is not natural. To your selfish flesh. We self. So go the extra mile, right? Be generous when you don't want to be. Right. Turn the other cheek. Because those acts of powering down. When we're most Christ like, and again, you know who modeled this? It was Jesus. Right? It's in the garden. Yes. Right. Peter pulls out the sword cut somebody, Jesus, what are you doing? We do not fight back. Right? This guy does not have the authority over you. This guy does. So don't fight that.

Dan Schilling: 6:31

Well, even after that night, starting to say this, what? Back? Talking to my boys. Yeah. And we've been finding that the more and more that I'm authentic with them humble talking about, hey, here's where I am today. And then they start talking about places in their life that are and because we are theme of we're doing one of our groups, we call them play groups. And so we've been hitting the scriptures pretty hard on everything that the Bible says about humility, characteristics of people who did it people who didn't. And so as we continue to look at it and look at it, we're like, wow, like, how do you do that? How can you when you're being assaulted? And again, apart from him in us? And but what I find, like you were saying a little bit ago that when we position our heart like that, when we're vulnerable with that we allow the gospel to come in, we allow the goodness of God to flow through us. And I think that's what gets the attention of people around like, how do you do that? I mean, how can you when people act that way, say that thing, do that thing? How do you do it? Yeah,

Andy Searles: 7:45

I'm really poor at it. But but but I serve a good guy who lives in me. And the really isn't part of the equation. Because yes, I would mess it up. And I do. Yeah, I think he said it. Well, yeah. Maybe we decrease. Jesus can increase.

Dan Schilling: 8:02

Yeah. Well, let's we got one more to go.

Andy Searles: 8:04

I know, we probably were at a time. So please accept. Apologies for that. This is good. I

Dan Schilling: 8:11

want to make sure we Yeah, strong here. This is a key part. Because many of us, I know struggle, but let's, let's go for it.

Andy Searles: 8:18

Yeah. And this is so relevant today, as well. Right. You have heard it said, right. And again, by now we know that you have heard it said is a trigger for good, but not enough. There's more right? And I doubt it happened because it doesn't happen with us. But I hope that as the disciples in the crowd heard this, they getting ready for another kind of WaitWhat pomp Michelle. Yeah, right. Yes, you're right. It said love your enemy. And everyone goes, yes. Oh, no, sorry. No, that love your neighbor. It was going Yes. and hate your enemy. But I tell you, amen. But I tell you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. And all the crowd goes one way, why not? Right. In fact, what's interesting about this is that love your neighbor was very much as scriptural command. Yes, but hate your enemy. That was some cultural narrative that had been added. Right. And I think we have to be very careful in our Christianity today that we are leaning into the but I tell you, yes. And not the cultural narratives that have been played out. Because they've been played out all around us. And they're strong, and they're manipulative and ugly, and they're going to take us to ungodly places. Yeah, right. Yeah. What had happened here do you said love your neighbor, check that and hate your enemy where they heard hate your enemy from it was from the culture. But again, Jesus says, I'm going to tell you a better way. And that better way is to love your enemies. And again, every jaw dropped, right? Because that is so unnatural to us, and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven. Three little things to point out in that verse. Love your enemies, pray, and so that you may be children of your Father in heaven. And it's hard to love our enemies. And it's hard to pray for those who persecute us. Yes. But if we realize that we are children of a father in heaven, then we are able to do that. Because we were enemies of God. Paul says, right? And we were the persecutor errs, before we were the persecutor holes, right. But our Father in heaven, loved us when we were his enemies, and loved us when we were persecuting him. And if he did it to us, then we have a chance of loving and, and praying for those who persecute us. I think this is some of the hardest teaching Christianity. I think this is a wait, what moment that is so staggering. It's going to take us a lifetime to figure out. But for me, this verse is one of the most important and hardest litmus tests as

Dan Schilling: 11:43

well. I again, when I think through it, he says here to you know, if you love those who love you, what reward were you get? Don't tax collectors. I mean, the people that you don't like you these guys are the enemy. Right? These are your fellow? Yeah.

Andy Searles: 11:59

What do you say is is is, is we need to be distinct. Right? As those who follow Christ, we are not to be like the world. We're supposed to be outside the world we're supposed to, to shine into the world we are supposed to love with an extraordinary love. Yes. And if we just like everybody else, then we're missing the point of what it means to follow Jesus. Yes.

Dan Schilling: 12:23

And two years ago, I was a administrator Christian School. And really what compelled sharing for years around Ministry of family and serving because of the divorce rate mean that the divorce rate in the church was as high or higher than outside of the world. And those statistics were saying because well, that maybe the institution of marriage was given up on, I suppose, outside of the church, but inside, they get married and divorced. You say, Okay, so what's that have to do? Well, we had young children in the school whose parents were getting divorced. And they would say to me, because when Mom Dad are getting divorced, I'd say how you doing? I say, Wow, I'm okay. I just, I don't want to be a Christian. I remember when young and I don't want to be Christian. Like I'm really why he said, because it's a it's a bunch of baloney. Pretty much what he said. Well, I said, What do you mean? He said, Because this whole love here for one another. It's so fun because Mom and Dad, it's not real. And so when I think about what he's, you know, you can love your neighbor, you can even love the person who's right here. I mean, that we are as a body of Christ, we're not distinct, even our own homes, not the ones who are we're no different. We've, we're just as much divorce just as much strife, just as much family, breakups just as much, you know, people fighting over legacy of the stuff who grandma's getting died, I want this and I want that, and we don't talk to each other, all the things that we as believers in Jesus, but he's calling us to something here and again, not because it's a bunch of rules to follow, but because when his light soul shines through us, others do say, wow, they taste and see the goodness of him and say I want to partake in it. I want to be I want to experience that bread of life that you're eating. Because of what I'm eating. It's not getting to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Searles: 14:13

I mean, that's a fascinating point. Right? And, and he says, Don't even the tax collectors do the same. And the irony is that Matthew, who's captured this was a tax collector. He says, if you agree only your brothers and sisters, what are you doing out of the ordinary? I think that's a great question for us all to meditate on. Right? What are we doing this out of the ordinary? What? What is following Jesus mean for my life? That is different than when I wasn't following Jesus. Right? And if there is no different then again, I totally get that I don't want to follow Jesus. Right? Because being a Christian, right, is being marked as different, right? Because we've been forgiven we've been accepted will loved were part of the family of God, as you said, here we are children of our Father in heaven. That's different. Yes. Right. And so live the difference. But again, and this is a big part of, of what we do here. How do we do that? And I think one of the keys for that is found in that middle verse Between Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. And what we just talked about, about being out of the ordinary, it says in verse 45, for he causes the sun to rise on the evil and good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Right, yes. And as I interpret that, there's a lot of ways we can meditate and process through there is that people are people. That's right, right. God is good to those who deserve it and those who don't. Right, the rain comes on the righteous and the unrighteous. Right. We're all people, right? We're all part of the human race made in the image of the Divine. And so it's really easy to demonize enemies. And again, if we demonize our enemies, then we can't love enemies. In fact, we're on a track to hate our enemies more. But if we can see our enemies as people, and people like us who are broken and hurting and in need of a Savior, that turns the hatred that we want, towards the end, yes, to start to be loving towards. And that's where been thinking through a lot recently, this idea that we talked about a moment ago, that everybody who was a perpetrator was first a victim. Yes. Right. So So one person, right, you're a perpetrator. And I can look at you and say, Man, I hate that perpetrator, you hurt me. But that same perpetrator is also a victim? Yes. Because they are hurting people because someone has hurt them. Right? And you can trace that hurt all the way back to the enemy. Yes, right. But if I see you, not as the perpetrator, but as a victim, I don't hate you. I want to fight. Yeah, I have compassion. And I want to love you. And that makes all the sense in the world, because what's actually going to heal the perpetrator? Right? Because the way they're acting out is just an expression of that hurt, right? So a way to heal that hurt, is through compassion, and care and love, because that's what Jesus did for us. That's the way he told us. Right? So Jesus, but I tell you, love your enemies, and will who at really, really, for me, part of doing that? is reframing the perpetrators, as the victims that they are as well, yes, doesn't justify their son sin doesn't make it right, that they're hurting people. What one of my favorite Abraham Lincoln quotes he, when he was in office, I think he had someone it was an enemy. And he secretary came to him and said, you know, so and so's here? Do you want me to get rid of him? And Mr. Lincoln said, I know No, I know of no better way than to get rid of my enemy than by making your friend. Right. Yes. And so something happened in Lincoln. Right? It didn't see him as a perpetrator. Yes. But saw him as a victim. Yes, who needed? Yes. And again, big ask. I think Jesus knew that. I think Jesus knows how hard it will be for us. But I think this little verse here reminds us that we're all people. We're all made in the image, there is only one who is pure evil. The rest of us is just manipulated by that. Yes. And if I can see you not as my perpetrator or its first victim, I can respond not with fight and hate. Yes, it was compassionate love. What a world that would be an extraordinary out of the ordinary world.

Dan Schilling: 19:21

When I two things come to mind and the as we start to land the plane here a little bit. The first one is when I think about Jesus with a woman who's caught in adultery. And, you know, these guys like so, whichever one of you without sin, go ahead and throw that first stone. Yeah. Yeah. And I've heard different people talk about, you know, like, he might have been writing their sins in the dirt and like, I'm out of here. Yeah. But it's easy to see sin in someone else's mirror. It's hard to see this in, in my mind, it's easy to see somebody else as the perpetrator. are in there that mirror, but it's hard to see the perpetrator in my mirror.

Andy Searles: 20:05

And that's so, so important for us to be self aware around, right? A lot of people like to live with this victim mentality. And I'm this way because of this happened to me because so and so. And some of that's true. But as victims, we've got to be very careful, we don't become the perpetrators. Right? Hurt people, hurt people, we break the cycle with compassion, and love. Right. And, you know, we've both I'm sure met people who've gone through a long divorce. Right. And with all honesty, they can say I was the victim. And they were, very quickly they get into another marriage, and they say, that's never gonna happen to me again. And it doesn't, they're not the victim anymore. But they can become the perpetrator. Yes, right. Yes. Hurt people. Hurt people. Yes. So So as we're looking externally, let's try and see our enemies, as victims. But as we look internally, let's make sure that we're not acting out as victims and becoming perpetrators. Let's make sure that we who have been hurt, or not exercising that hurt someone else?

Dan Schilling: 21:34

Well, I'm encouraged today, I hope you are as well. And I believe the encouragement that I'm receiving from the Lord again, just like my pickable story, Lady is how am I going to respond? Am I going to respond with an insult? Or am I going to respond with a love and a compassion that makes someone say, Wow, that's, that's different? Am I willing to do that? And so my encouragement to you today is again, to start asking the Holy Spirit is there is there relationships right now that are severed that are not the way God you would want them to be where they would be unity, Jesus said that, that he and the Father were one that his prayer for us was that we would be one like He and the Father are wandering. And so there's some people in your life, I believe, today, that God wants to bring you back into oneness with. And so I just want to encourage you, as you're hearing his voice, that you start to follow and taking those steps to restore that intimacy with that person, which I believe will continue to further your intimacy with your heavenly Father to the Spirit. So Andy, thanks for joining today. Appreciate you being here. Appreciate your hearts, this

Andy Searles: 22:52

some deep stuff, man, this is this is messing with with me and how I live because I think my confession is for too long. I've listened to the You have heard it said I want to be in who follows Jesus and therefore listens to Jesus when he says yes.

Dan Schilling: 23:15

And that's the goal. That we hear that voice that he says, But I tell you, I have something for it. And so, thanks for tuning in. grateful that you're with us on this journey. Again, we haven't arrived. We're on the journey herself. But we want to invite you to join us on the journey so you can start that journey. If you haven't already. You go to feedsheep.org. And we just love to have you be a part of the process and just inviting you to join us on a journey to hear God's voice follows the Thrive of the disciples. Thanks for tuning in. God bless you and see you next time.