KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments through microschooling. Powered by Prenda, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle curiosity, motivation, and well-being in young learners. Do you have a question, topic, or story you'd like to share with us? Get in touch at podcast@prenda.com.
KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
Episode 83: Partnering for Innovation. A Conversation with Amy McGrath.
We challenge the assumption that boredom is a student problem and show how design, mentorship and partnerships can make school feel alive. Amy McGrath shares the path from Florida Virtual to ASU Prep’s Digital Plus microschools, mastery learning and the new Tempe Levitt Lab.
• student-centered models that treat boredom as a design signal
• lessons from Florida Virtual and one-to-one mentorship
• hybrid learning that mixes digital core with in-person projects
• ASU Prep Digital Plus hubs and personalized learning guides
• partnerships with Khan Academy, Steve Levitt and John Williams
• wonder sessions and Socratic seminars that deepen curiosity
• mastery, alternative credentials and university collaboration
• practical steps to start, fund and pilot new models
• mentorship that tells the truth and removes drag
About our guest
Amy McGrath is the VP of Educational Outreach and Student Services at Arizona State University, Managing Director of ASU Preparatory Academy, and Chair of the Board for ASU Prep Global. She leads the design and national scaling of innovative learning models in partnership with over 350 school districts via ASU Prep Global. Amy co-designed Khan World School with Sal Khan and is passionate about using emerging technologies to boost engagement and learning. Her past roles include leading product development for 600,000+ learners at Florida Virtual School and advising international education leaders on blended learning. She writes extensively on the intersection of innovation and opportunity, serves on the boards of the World Series of Entrepreneurship, Class Technologies, and Trace Academy, and is committed to redesigning the student experience from the inside out. Amy holds a Bachelor's in Social Science Education and a Master’s in Educational Leadership from the University of South Florida.
Resources in this Episode
Levitt Lab
Dreamscape Learn
Khan World School
Florida Virtual School
Julie Young
Got a story to share or question you want us to answer? Send us a message!
About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.
Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.
Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to podcast@prenda.com. Let's dive into the conversation together!
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It's trying to just change what school feels like for kids and put the onus on the adults. Like if the kids are bored, we should be reflective. And and it should be because we might need to change the model. And so the people that were a part of this have big names and big portfolios of work, but they're actually incredibly student-centered.
SPEAKER_02:Hi, welcome to the Kindle the Podcast. I'm Kelly Smith. I'll be hosting today. And I'm excited to introduce you to Amy McGrath from Arizona State University. Amy's Vice President of Educational Outreach and Student Services at ASU. She's also the managing director of ASU Preparatory Academy that's a K2 Charter School and the chairman of the board for ASU Prep at Global. So big title. She's worked with Big Shots over the years. She leads all the work at ASU Prep that designs new models for increasing engagement and outcomes for all learners. And she's passionate about kids and education. I think you're going to love this conversation. We'll talk about some of the partnerships that Amy has worked on, uh, her focus on kids and philosophy around learning and education. I think you'll find her to be delightful. And with that, let's get into the conversation. Amy McGrath, I'm so happy to be talking to you. Welcome to the Kindled Podcast by Prenda.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, Kelly. It's about time. I'm very glad to be together.
SPEAKER_02:I know. I thought we could do this in person. You're, of course, affiliated with and leading ASU Prep Digital. We um, you know, Arizona State University is right down the road from my house. However, you're in Florida and that's where you live. And I respect that you, you know, I know you're here a lot, but happy to be.
SPEAKER_01:We have schools in Florida.
SPEAKER_02:So I do, yeah. We now both have reasons to be in each other's territory. Well, look, this is gonna be a fun conversation. I am excited for our listeners just to get to know you um and understand what you're all about. I've met a lot of people in the education world. I remember meeting you for the first time, and I want to say it was pre-pandemic. We were talking microschools back in 2019 or so, and you were just one of those ones that got it, you know, that that definitely saw the vision. And you, your heart for kids and learning was there. I mean, I I was trying to do a rough tabulation. I don't know if you ever do this. The math of this, like you've you've probably worked with, is it hundreds of thousands of kids? I mean, it's a lot of kids over the course of your career, and that's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Time, right, place. But yes, it is pretty, pretty awesome. And I'm on the same wall quickly though, to tell you with the first time we met. You know, when somebody is intently focused on students, and then they become magnetic. And so, as far as my journey with ASU, you've been really core. So I'm excited to be able to have this conversation with you.
SPEAKER_02:That's awesome. Let's do a quick pause for our listeners and say, everyone, close your eyes and imagine a world where every education co conversation was just obsession obsession with students and their welfare and human flourishing. And we could stop the podcast there. That's it. Just imagine that world. Let's do it. I want people to know your story. Will you share a little bit about how you got to the point you are now leading, you know, the work and the steps along the way? I I we'll get into parts of your story, but just tell kind of a quick version of you.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So I am the daughter of an Irish immigrant and an identical twin. I've come from a family, a large family of six kids. But those are two core things that I think resonate, and you'll see through threads of my story. My dad and my mom did not go to college, but my parents started a business and they were entrepreneurs, and my mom tried to go back to college and she couldn't, and then there was all sorts of life that happened. And fast forward me going to college to have a business major. And then I went on a service trip with a friend that was part of the College of Education to Africa, and it just rocked my world. And so I came home, changed my major. So I wasn't one of those kids that just knew I'm gonna be a teacher. I actually sort of fell into it because I fell in love with kids and felt like that was, you know, the economic mobility ticket. And I came home and changed my major. That and then really wanting to prove to our family, you know, gosh, what you can do with an education is is so powerful. Cared deeply about new models from the very beginning. And so as a teacher and a soccer coach and an educational leader at a s a big public school in Orlando, um, I immediately wanted to figure out how to do being a mom with being a teacher, and it was hard to do. And so I always was fascinated by anything hybrid. I ended up transitioning into the Florida Virtual School to make mom life work, and that's where I started to see the potential of what it looked like not to be anchored to a master schedule. And so that was sort of the beginning of the story. And um, in terms of the way that I've been able to get to ASU, it was just continuously raising my hand and say, we should try this, and have we ever done that? And a bunch of those things were epic failures, and some of those things got sticky, and so um I I followed the career of Michael Crow and thought he was a force of nature that I wanted to be somewhere in his sphere, and um sort of just manifested it, and now here I am. So I feel very, very lucky, but all of it really was to try to um get close to keep building models where kids could feel seen and kids were not stuck in a traditional environment. And so that has provided all sorts of different lucky opportunities for me.
SPEAKER_02:You had some amazing ones, and I'm excited to drill into it. Let's go back though to Africa. What country were you in and what actually was that moment where it really shook you and helped you kind of change your whole trajectory?
SPEAKER_01:I was in South Africa, so it was very Europeanized, and I think actually the bifurcation of life and how you know there was just extreme poverty, and you could, you know, be in a five-star uh beautiful resort, and then across the street, you could see something that was extremely third world. And I felt very tangibly that there was like there's no access for high-quality education for those kids. For being um a part of the teachers college to build an education model, it was just so powerful because I was I had the privilege of doing something that others had done for many years. And so I got to see stories and hear from kids who were given opportunity years ago and now we're giving back. And it just it was a passion for me. And I didn't want to go back and do business stuff. And all of those things matter, and but it just it turned a light on for me that I knew I wanted to have something in my pursuit of a career that would um have great meaning like that.
SPEAKER_02:I can picture a young Amy back in those days just having that. Uh it well, it's funny, I we've never talked about this, but I had a summer I spent when I was 22 in Mozambique, right next door to South Africa. And it was very similar for me. I'm meeting people and coming to like love and and really see them and you know, living alongside them and recognizing that they're never gonna have the opportunities that I had just because of where they were born and and the situations that they were born into and this looming sense of how unfair that was. And I actually spent most of that summer just grappling with existential things, right? You know, tempted by nihilism and depression and despair because it's like, what do you do with this?
SPEAKER_01:And, you know, not to get too personal back when you come back.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah. But by the end of that summer, it wasn't that I had like solved, you know, inequity or something in the world, but what I what I realized was, what am I going to do about it? And the answer was I've been dealt a really good hand of cards and I feel a responsibility in that hand of cards to make a difference for others. And doing that, I think this is where you know our stories are very similar. It's like learning the one ticket, right? If you can help someone do education the right way, I'm not talking about test scores or grades. It's like the actual connection with your purpose and gifts and developing yourself as a human. If you can do that, you can help someone. They like humans are capable of making those changes and you add it up across lots of humans. And, you know, I just I get a little bit geeked out on what you know, what that world could look like. So it's it's interesting. I think I saw glimpses of that. I actually did go into business and just worked in, I mean, I studied engineering, but I ended up doing a lot of business jobs all the time looking for ways to actually make my mark and make my contribution. And I kind of stumbled back into education. I mean, all along I was tutoring kids for free and stuff, but it's so fun. It's so fun to be involved in this work and I'm inspired by your story. Let's talk up a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Trying to make these decisions, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. I know. And it's like, do we trust them to do it? Is a is a huge question.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Let's talk about Florida Virtual a little bit. It's interesting because we talk about Florida Virtual, for those who don't know, this was 2001, 2000. I mean, it was early internet, right? You got to remember Google was like 1998. So early internet and the idea, there were a small group of people around the country that kind of sat down at a table. And you, you and I weren't at this table, but we know people who were, right? And they said, hey, we've got this thing called the internet now. And there are people that want to learn, they want to do education, they want to do it on their own terms. I mean, it's interesting you talk about the flexibility that it brought you as an adult educator with your family, but the whole thing was for kids and families to do school on different terms and teachers, right? Everybody could do it differently. The technology of the time opened up that door. And Florida Virtual was one of the early ones to say, look, we're going all in on this, the legislature supported it, and the whole state of Florida and now many other states, you know, you have you have this massive reach that, you know, lots of families who, you know, maybe can't or won't or don't want to do kind of the traditional way, now can do school online. So that uh I don't know if I'm giving it a fair representation. Anything you want to just add, add for people about Florida virtual and kind of the place it the place it plays in the the history, because I think it's a really important um, really is core to my story in terms of how I think about educational design, really on the flip side.
SPEAKER_01:I think about things from um having core academic opportunities in a flexible way and then building in-person experiences. And started thinking it about it in that way when I joined Florida Virtual School in 2007. So I've had so much time when most of the world was really thinking more binary, you're either online or you're in person. I always thought of it as like sort of a hopeful mishmash of what makes sense to your family. And then the other thing that is a misnomer for online education, the reason I was so attracted to it was having one-on-one conversations as a teacher with kids. And it's like we always said uh in online learning that you are, you know, it's a classroom of one, and that can be a bad or a good thing, depending on how you view community. Because you really have to you can't be passive in that because you can become a recluse. But there was something real special as a teacher getting deeply to know my kids' stories because in you know, regular classroom where I had tons of priorities and seven class periods and 30 kids, it was very quick interactions. And I all of a sudden I was able to have these long conversations with kids and their parents and imagine myself sitting at the dining room table talking about individual learning plans. And that was early in the 2000s. And so that really kind of drove me into what, you know, now at a very different platform of opportunity through Arizona State, uh, being able to build models like that at scale.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's what I wanted to talk to talk about next is let's get into micro schools as a concept. And, you know, 20 years of Florida Virtual, I think did, I agree with you, opened the door for I think what what most parents actually want, which is that one-on-one with their with an adult that cares about them, the ability to tailor it, flex, make it flexible and customized. So each kid is being really, you know, invited to be the best version of themselves, but also to do it in a group dynamic with kids my age and be there in person and all of these things that we love about school. Microschools do that for people. And we, you know, you and I've both been involved. Tell me a little bit about what ASU's been doing in the microschool front and just give us a few examples. I I know I'm gonna ask you some specifics later about some of the partnerships you've done, but just give me kind of the rundown on on microschools.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, we responded to parent demand, which was really great because that's when families finally realized, oh, I could do a lot more on top of a school schedule if I'm not anchored to seven hours a day. And so it was love hate, as we all know. Some parents couldn't wait to get their kids back. But there was enough of this, I think, you know, aperture widening of the types of student profiles that we had that were interested in a little bit of a different model. So we, ASU Prep, responded to that and used our uh digital statewide charter to build in-person kind of drop-in centers where we could pull kids together based on interest. And that was something that just took off. And it continues to. I think we're seeing more and more of an expectation for school to look like that. And what we're really committed to, I talk about, you know, Arizona State University is is all about building models for students across the learning continuum and having hundreds of those because we build for variants. But something that we're very passionate about at PrEP is small environments and having lots of those because what we know is I think specifically with teenagers, their resilience is strengthened when they have at least one adult in their life that they can connect to, and that happens at a higher frequency when they're small environments. And so we have taken the ability to use a big statewide platform where kids can move on their academic core, be connected to high-quality instructors and success coaches that care about their academic journey as well as what's going on personally, soccer games or clubs. And then we can bring them in person and connect them to the future of work and give them alternative credentialing and do mastery and Socratic. And so those opportunities really drove what I think we'll get into later, which are some of these other models that came.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Parents demanded a little bit of that, and then we designed around them. And kids have been performing very, very well in models like that.
SPEAKER_02:Give us a picture. So you talk to these parents, you're listening to them, which by the way, kudos, everyone listening that's involved in education, entrepreneurship, like listen to parents, please. I I feel like that should be obvious. It's too often that we, you know, we talk about the quality of the program and the results and the metrics and, you know, compliance. And it's like, please start with what are parents looking for? I love that you did that. What were they telling you? What did you hear?
SPEAKER_01:They were telling us that their kids finally were speaking up about how hard it was to be stuck in school for hours and hours and hours not feeling like you're learning at the pace at which you could when you were unencumbered and they were bored and unengaged. And families started to say, you know, what can ASU prep do that combines the best of both worlds? Or they're honestly, we had so many family focused groups that the families designed this model. I don't think we can take as much credit. It's awesome. We had really smart people that were able to operationalize on the vision, but it was families. And then another thing that was pretty cool that we were able to do is we launched an ASU Prep Microschool Entrepreneur Fellowship to help other microschool founders on their journey with both startup training and access to ASU prep resources, but we learned a ton in that process from entrepreneurs who were usually moms. I mean, parents, sure, but we had a lot of mothers who knew the business world and then saw their kids light up from an engagement perspective in different ways and said, I gotta do this. And so we did a couple cohorts where we've had really remarkable founders come through the program that taught us a lot too.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's funny to think, like I was one of those parents, right? 2018 is when I started my microschool because I wanted my kids to love learning again and and I watched them, the fire kind of go out. So doing that, you know, but recognizing how many problems to solve. I mean, obviously I'm a big fan of figure it out and overcoming obstacles and things, but you know, to take those barriers down, I think is is really going to be critical for this next wave. I think there still are millions more microschools to be started. You know, we've we've started a thousand of them. You know, you guys have started microschools. There's others now that are starting microschools, but I think those numbers are all just paltry in comparison to where we're headed. And yeah. Give us a picture. Okay. So one of the first ones you guys did was in Tempe on the ASU campus, right? And can you just like walk us in the door and give us like a vi give listeners a visual of that microschool just so they kind of know what we're talking about?
SPEAKER_01:It's funny, just from a nomenclature perspective, this word micro school became so buzzy and we used it for a while. And that's actually how we were able to kind of put it in this, you know, defining category. But now what we refer to it is ASU Prep Digital Plus, because they're designated as digital students and they come in in person and they get to choose how much. And so they sort of flex their time. So if you're gonna come, we'll say our ASU Prep group that goes to the Mix Center in Mesa, Arizona, which is this phenomenal space for kids to work on multimedia and all sorts of different big projects that get them an access to emergent technology alongside, like literally our high school kids are in the exact same courses with our Herberger School of the Arts students. And the collaboration that happens, the iron that sharpens iron and the university students that are reaching out to the high school students is pretty cool because sometimes age doesn't matter whenever you get in these things and you kind of just like creativity sticks out. So when you come in, the kids, we actually have a second floor classroom and they kind of meet up there and it's organized chaos, and we have personal learning guides, not teachers. And so I don't say that because I I put a huge premium on teachers, on adults, but the role looks very, very different, which is something that ASU is passionate about, is thinking about distribution of talent around students in in creative ways to elevate outcomes. And so our personalized learning guides are sort of like the trailblazers for the kids. What do you want to do? You know, they look at their week, their month, their 90-day sprints of what they need to work on. They come to have specific tracks of projects and or career clusters that there's commonality in. And so they'll take ASU courses, they'll work on projects together, and we try to get them out to the community as much as possible. Um, and so that's one example where they might come for three days for five hours and then they work at home on some of the individual projects and some of their academic core.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's it's beautiful. And you could see how flexible that is and how it would help, you know, unlock and engage at key moments, but not limit and uh confine kids. So I I love what you're doing. In fact, I want to go visit, I drive by that space all the time. I live in Mesa. Let's talk about partnerships. I know this has been key to you, especially in the recent years, and you've had some coverage. I mean, I I've seen you on big stages talking about, you know, what you guys are doing in partnerships, not to, you know, put pressure on it, but uh you've worked with two of my like personal heroes. One is CellCon and Khan Academy. You guys have done an amazing partnership together. And then you worked with uh Stephen Levitt, who wrote for economics, and he's just one of these like big thinkers in the world, economists. Can you just share a little bit about how those partnerships happened and what you guys are are doing in in both of those cases? And you can talk about Shrek too if you if you want.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. It's been such a fun journey, and you've mentioned some of the partners that have helped us to proliferate the model. But I honestly think the reason it's ASU Prep is those three letters right in front of Prep, which is ASU, and the way that we operate is through partnership. I think we become force multipliers across the learning continuum because we're so open to what we can do in partnership. And what I'm usually attracted to is kind of this ambition and humility that has this underpinning of being student-centered and coming to the table with design partners that truly want to advance something special with an outcomes focus because I, you know, the reason that we're doing this is for economic mobility. In order to give kids something that matters, I think they have to have the right kind of credentialing, the right kind of outcomes. It can't just be just fun. So finding someone that has that sort of cocktail of things they care about is huge. So we do a lot of early conversations to see because, you know, there's there's different ways to partner and there's different groups that have different priorities. But the two that you mentioned in SalCon and Steve Levitt, and the chronology of that was Sal had reached out to post-COVID with some of the similar meanderings in his world of what would it look like to start a full-blown school based on what he had learned during COVID. And we were the right operational engine to do that. And then from a design perspective, there was just like pixie dust. It truly was. He had a list of first principles that almost were identical to ours. And so we've put together a really special model. But because his orbit of talent and partners is so huge, I've just been very lucky to work with additional partners inside of that. And so the Radical Innovation for Social Change is a center at University of Chicago that Stephen Levitt runs. And he and I began to strike up a friendship through the Con World School because he had his analysts that were writing our Socratic seminar. And during that time, Steve was just really engaged and interested in the outcomes and and called one day and said, I feel like this obligation, this responsibility, this is working so well. We gotta do more of it. I want to do it in person. Can we do it together? And we had worked together for a while, and so of course I was like, yes. And then we needed to find some help to sort of invest in, you know, that year zero of planning can get expensive when you're trying to be super, super careful. So we had some conversations with the producer of Shrek, John Williams, and and he has been a wonderful, humble, kind friend who wants to um create more Shrek-like movies by having more creative kids and believes that that will happen if there's more models available to catalyze curiosity. And so it was just a cool partnership. I mean, we literally sit in a room and talk about how can we get kids to be really interested. And we came up with this concept called wonder sessions. And so it's trying to just change what school feels like for kids and put the onus on the adults. Like if the kids are bored, we should be reflective and and it should be because we might need to change the model. And so the people that were a part of this have big names and big portfolios of work, but they're actually incredibly student-centered in that sort. I think has really made it.
SPEAKER_02:It's so incredible. Like I'm longing to be in the in these rooms, not that I'm trying to get an invite, but I'm just it's it's so it's so cool to think about. And this is one thing that's interesting to me. I meet these high-profile people, and they're known for contributions, their household names. They've they've done other things in the world, but almost all of them to a person, if they have that level of kind of contribution-mindedness and sort of humility that you're talking about, they've gone back to the roots. It's it's almost self-evident. It has to start with what are we doing for our young people and how are we getting getting out of their way in some degree, right? Really opening things up for them and doing education differently is a mission that just energizes so many. I wish that story was told, you know, with more of the, you know, you know about Steve Levitt's, you know, economics work, but it's like this is another huge contribution made by a person that that really means it, you know. And I think that's that's what I really I want to help tell that story. So thanks for sharing about it here.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That was great. When I think one of the things that Steve is so passionate about on the economics forum is like, what are people motivated to do? And so he's really, from an education perspective and taking that lens, I mean, when we motivate our kids to do things that they love to do, they will run through walls. And so that's he's coming in with this assumption that kids are bored. And he has a bunch of grown kids that were bored out of their mind. And he's like, I want to change the experience for his younger kids. And so we're creating this wide range of opportunity that actually gets them going and in-depth explorations on things that they choose to do. And so that changes a lot. And I think that's where the the tie-in for him from an interest perspective is.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. I I use the our listeners will roll their eyes because I use this way too much. But I talk about Ferris Bheeler's Day Off, which is one of the all-time great movies. And this scene, this classroom scene, and these teachers are in there doing their job. Like they really think they're like, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. This is what you're paying me for. And they're giving these lectures that like clearly are not engaging anyone, right? And the kids don't care at all about it. They don't see any, and you know, maybe this is Steve Levitt's gonna listen to this and be offended because Ben Stein's talking about, you know, economics, uh something D-O-O, voodoo economic, you know. But um, but uh that's not this is not me trying to like quote Ferris Believe's dab. It's just I think the humility is you saying, if if this isn't engaging, we should at least think about our side of it and what can we control. We don't get to engage a kid, like that's something that has to happen with them. But what we can do is get the conditions right. And this is probably the perfect moment for my my seminal rant about the fires to be kindled, because when you you think about the two paradigms, like if you're trying to start a fire, you want it dry, you want to get fuel in place, you want to like make sure there's adequate oxygen, and you're trying to get enough heat, right? Those are the ingredients. And pouring water into a cup, you're doing the opposite thing of that. And I think no one's no one's fault. That's what we had to do to transmit information from generation to generation before that is no longer what we have to do. And it's killing fire, right? It's like we're putting out fire. So I I love that you're pushing on this and you're doing it with these amazing partners.
SPEAKER_01:Let's I want to- sorry, just as an add-on to that, like the way that life is changing based on new rollouts of emergent technology is it's yesterday. My son taught me something on he has like all the various LLMs as apps on his phone, and he showed me Grok and it had this feature called Imagine, and you can take old photos and you can turn them into video, and he's showing me this, and I'm like, we should, you know, immediately like we take it to the lunch blob. Okay, build an you know, build a project around that. Like, and it's so cool to be in a system where you can be dynamic enough to where you're not just like, this is the lesson plan from this antiquated textbook from years ago, like in real time changing constantly what we're doing to make kids exist.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, you just inspired me. We're making we we have a set of create projects where kids do and as individuals repairs, they'll work on these projects in Prenda and go to Grok, do it, imagine, bring to life an old photo, and then write a story about it. And you've got yourself a create project. So I'm gonna add that today, and now kids can participate. Yeah, this is great. Can you talk about mentorship? I know you've been a mentor to others. I've heard people rave about your contribution in their career and their life. I've also seen you learn from other mentors. You mentioned Michael Crowe earlier in this conversation. Can you just talk a little bit about just secrets to mentorship? I know that's been a part of your career and life, even bigger than career.
SPEAKER_01:I think mentorship is so important because I've been the beneficiary of such great mentoring. So if you don't have a mentor, get one. That would be a big takeaway. And not just any mentor, I think someone that's going to tell you the truth, even when it's uncomfortable. And I have worked with Julie Young. She's the founding CEO of Florida Ritual School and for 20 years. We were we went to brunch two days ago and laughed and had some teary moments. Like she's just been a wonderful friend and mentor for me for a long time that I think um and and I use the word humility probably too much, but someone that can allow you to lead and not have an alternate agenda. And that's really hard to do. And it comes with this sense of authenticity that once you find that mentor and you start feeling like you come alive in a different way because you're sort of elevating your game based on feedback you're getting, immediately being able to give that back to someone else, I think is a huge responsibility. So I've been super grateful Julie is one of them. I I've had such incredible work peers and colleagues that may not even just, you know, in the sense of mentor from age or hierarchy, there's people that there's commonality with that help you to see the world in a different way and don't bring you down, but in fact, like they don't create create drag, you know. Because we're all trying to row, and I always tell us to our team like we're all rowing in the same direction. One degree off can create drag. So you have to find people who are really kind of in this constant pursuit of uh forward advancement. And so mentorship can look really, really different too. It doesn't always have to be someone older than you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love that. And I love what you're saying about Julie. Uh just echoing that. She's, I don't know her as well as you do, obviously, but one of those people. And you could look at this from the outside and say, human nature would have us believe that you'd feel threatened or negative about someone that grows into your own job and takes over what you were once in charge of. And instead, it's a beautiful friendship that transcends all of the work, even. And you guys have done amazing things together and continue to do amazing things. Let's talk about very lucky. Yeah, I want to just get into I think there's a lot of people that want to want to do the types of stuff. That we're talking about. They hear these, you know, it might feel pie in the sky, like let kids be curious and just be humble and try to engage them. And but, you know, I guess I think people want to know like, what do I do? Like, how do I, what do you see as actually standing in the way of, you know, more innovation in the education sphere? What would you say to somebody that their heart is in it, they want to participate, and maybe they're talking themselves out of it? Like what would be your your coaching to somebody like that?
SPEAKER_01:On a systems level, I think opportunity abounds right now based on how we currently in multiple states, I think 28 can sort of break down the per pupil and access our funding in creative ways. So as a parent, I think we should feel empowered to be able to think differently about once what was sending your kid to school versus okay, I can actually create a learning experience. Um so from a parent perspective, I think that's really big. But from a systems and educational leadership perspective, I I I'm hopeful that we're not so busy that we don't create that carve out the time for the um creative and you know, the time that you need to map out what your clear shared goals are with your team to be able to advance on something new. And we're always running something, but I do believe as opportunity architects, we should always be building something, especially with how rapidly things are changing. So my hope is that um, and it and I get it. I mean, the my calendar is disturbing. I mean, Kelly, it took us forever to even get together. There's the fires of the day, school started, we've already had the police deployed. Those are real life things when you're running big schools or lots of schools. But you have to be intentional about setting aside time to build something new and trying it and having, you know, and tell every principal work with your with your network leadership, your district leadership to have proofs of concepts running. And it could be within a classroom or it could be within a cohort of, you know, a specific department, or it could be school-wide. I think that's huge. And then building upon that methodically, it's such, it's such hard work when you are incredibly inundated with the monotony of what school expects. And so again, it goes back to finding someone that'll push you. So making sure you surround yourself with people that are like, hey, is this enough? We can do more.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. So let's just um maybe regurgitate that back. Find first, just taking permission, believing that this is your moment. The world does need you, you've got something to offer. If you care about kids and you can see something that can help any small group of kids, you've got something to offer. And we need you in this work. So you should feel like you're allowed to participate and the number of places where there's actual state funding available for that, which means you're not limited to only rich people that can pay high tuitions, right? You can do this in lots of places in the US. Number two is just make time for it. I think Amy's saying this right. Life's busy, we acknowledge that, finding a way. And Amy, I think I think of you as actually a great example of this because your previous title was COO, like chief operations. You're you're an operationally minded, like get stuff done kind of person, but yet you still always seem to have the vision, right? You're you're able to see the big picture. And I don't know if that's an intentional practice that you've cultivated where it's, you know, just carving out whatever whatever it is, time or methods for just zooming out, looking at things. Uh, you know, you mentioned listening to parents earlier. I would add listening to kids and listening to, you know, educators that are involved. Yeah, what I that it's just this is a great list. And and hopefully people are listening to it and they're like, I could do that. I could carve out time, I could take the risk. I it doesn't maybe it's not as risky as I think. I have permission to do this. And those guys on a podcast told told me I should. So I'm gonna start my own school. You should you should start your own school. Um, can you just share? And and I'd like to just kind of end with an example of empowerment. So whether that's from your own life, somebody that's kind of kindled a spark in you, or something you've seen in, you know, an ASU or Florida virtual kind of educational environment where you've seen real fire kindled, or metaphorical fire kindled in a young person or in a learner. And you, I know I'm kind of springing this on you, but do you have kind of a moment that stands out where you're like, yeah, this is why I get up in the morning, this is why I do what I do?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I honestly get flooded with those. And I could start with an individual student all the way to like a model that we just launched. And I my heart is very full right now after spending a couple of weeks in Tempe launching our ASU Prep Tempe Levitt Lab. And it's small, it's 50 kids on ASU's Tempe campus, where 50 kids that didn't know each other were gonna be coming into a hybrid model. There we don't have grades, we don't have it, it is mastery, community-oriented. And so who knows when these kids actually get here? How's it gonna go? And I am fired up about the work that we put in. Um, and and we said yes to this. We've surrounded ourselves with people who had that same disposition of learning and wanting to continue to to spend time deeply designing a model for kids, about kids, and to to see their fruits of that labor is just remarkable. It kind of goes back to what you were saying, whenever you just say yes and and you and you can't just say yes and say, Okay, I'm giving my permission, myself permission to do this. You actually have to put the work in and you have to invest in it. And you had to make sacrifices and we had to go raise money. And I mean, it wasn't easy. These are and it sounds flashy because you have these big names on it, but there's hard work to launch a model that's accredited and compliant, and but to to be committed to what happened for its experience to be unique and to be special, but to you know, know that you want it to be advanced to more and more kids so you do it right the first time, show up and see the kids. They're the authors of this story and they're the founding group of kids that are, I mean, huge smiles, some trepidation, but I I'm so proud of the time that the adults put in and then how we got out of the way. And now the kids are really leading this. And so that's been a model that I'm super excited, and I'm sure next year I'm gonna come on and tell you another one because I think that's how it should be, is we should continue creating new ones.
SPEAKER_02:Incredible. Thanks for sharing your story and thanks for the work you're doing for kids, Amy. It's been a pleasure to visit with you and learn a little bit more about you and the work that you've engaged in in this uh important movement. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Kelly. The Kindled Podcast is brought to you by Prenda. Prenda makes it easy to start and run an amazing microschool based on all the ideas we talk about here on the Kindled Podcast. Don't forget to follow us on social media at Prenda Learn, and if you'd like more information about starting a micro school, just go to Prenda.com. Thanks for listening and remember to keep Kindling.
