KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments through microschooling. Powered by Prenda, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle curiosity, motivation, and well-being in young learners. Do you have a question, topic, or story you'd like to share with us? Get in touch at podcast@prenda.com.
KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
Episode 85: Removing Education Barriers in Arkansas. A Conversation with Laurie Lee and Emmy Henley.
We explore how a mother and daughter helped turn Arkansas into a leading state for school choice, sharing hard-won lessons from family needs, policy battles, and the explosive growth of microschools. Stories, strategy, and straight talk show how parents and educators can build options that fit real kids.
• personal journey from limited options to statewide advocacy
• the mission and work of Reform Alliance supporting families
• education freedom accounts and scholarship access
• real family stories showing assistive tools and homeschool support
• why one size never fit all and why options matter
• launching 10 microschools in 30 days across Arkansas
• practical advice on starting a microschool around local needs
• overcoming fear, trusting parents, and iterating fast
• legacy, mentorship, and passing the torch to new leaders
About our guests
Laurie Lee serves as Chairman and Executive Director of The Reform Alliance, a nonprofit committed to ensuring every K-12 student in Arkansas has access to a world-class education. For more than 20 years, Laurie has been involved in the School Choice movement through policy development, coalition building, and collaboration with national education reform leaders. The Reform Alliance has been instrumental in advancing Arkansas's three School Choice programs: the Succeed Scholarship (a voucher), recently absorbed into the Education Freedom Accounts (an Education Savings Account), and the Philanthropic Investment in Arkansas Kids Scholarship (a tax credit program).
Emmy Henley’s journey in education reform began at 16, volunteering with after-school and mentoring programs. Her passion for championing Arkansas students led her to join The Reform Alliance. She has spent the past decade helping drive the success of the Succeed Scholarship, now part of the state’s Education Freedom Accounts (EFA). Today, she oversees the Philanthropic Investment in Arkansas Kids tax credit scholarship, supports the EFA program, and manages The Reform Alliance staff. This team travels statewide, building parent coalitions and developing innovative models like microschools.
Connect with Laurie and Emmy
The Reform Alliance
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About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.
Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.
Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to podcast@prenda.com. Let's dive into the conversation together!
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So let me just give your audience a little bit of hope. Please. You know, neither one of us are are college graduates. You know, people often say, well, what are your credentials? Well, here's my credential. I have passion for kids. I know a lot about the space, and I'm a workaholic. And we went out there and got things done, and we had a vision. I want to impact the next generation. And so you don't have to be a grad, no offense against MIT grads, but you don't have to be an MIT grad to do something impactful in education. You just you just don't.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Kindle the Podcast. I'm Kelly Smith. I'll be hosting today, and I'm looking forward to this conversation with Emmy Henley and Lori Lee. Lori and Emmy are a mother-daughter combo. They were influential in creating a group called the Reform Alliance in Arkansas. This is a group whose mission is just to help families find the right educational options for their children. They've also been very involved in Arkansas state policy and really advocated for what's become one of the strongest states in the country on school choice. You'll hear from Laurie and Emmy about the experiences that they had looking at options for their own family and what they've done for other people, including starting some microschools five years ago during the COVID pandemic. I'm excited to spend some time talking to them. They're delightful. I think you'll have a lot of fun listening to this conversation and getting to know Emmy and Laurie. So with that, let's get into the conversation. All right, Lori Lee and Emmy Henley. I'm so excited to be talking to you guys on the Kindled Podcast. Thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, thanks for having us. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_01:This is so fun. I've never talked to a mother-daughter combo on the podcast at the same time. So this is a really it's a treat for me. And uh I'm a it's a treat for our listeners too, because they're gonna get to know you guys and learn about the great work you guys are doing in Arkansas. Let's start with your story. She's the daughter. She's the daughter. I know. Thank you. Yeah. So those of you who are watching this on YouTube, we do have two faces. They're in one box. And if they can stay in the same video for the whole time, we're gonna be thrilled with it. They uh they solve problems together all day long. So I imagine this will be no problem at all. Let's get started. Lori, will you get kick us off with just a little bit about you and how you got into education? Uh, I want people to kind of get the feel. And then Emma, and Emmy, I'll have you go right after so you can kind of like layer it in. But let's hear the story.
SPEAKER_03:So I have two daughters. Emmy's my oldest daughter. And when they were in grade school, my youngest daughter, it was evident that she struggled. And so I was a single mom. And as a single mom who was a low wage earner, I didn't have a lot of options. There there weren't any. I mean, she was going to public school, and that was that. And so it just felt like this box. And so, you know, I tried to figure out what to do and what the options were. And then I got involved in a um a what what we call a nimby, not in my backyard issue where my kids were being had access to material that I didn't want them to have access to. I wanted them to be raised with my worldview. And so I just started going to war. Given my very demure personality, I just uh I just started calling other moms and um calling people that I knew that were in power positions of power and saying, this is not, this is not right. And then fast forward probably, I don't know, five, six years from that, um, I reached out to the Walton Family Foundation and said, I want to advocate for school choice. And they said, write out a plan. And I did, and that was about 13, 14 years ago. And we've been going strong ever since. So for about 20, 25 years, in some capacit, I mean, I've been doing it full-time and in some capacity, either as a voluntold minor or a paid partner, um, Emmy came along.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, speaking of being voluntold, Emmy, was it weird to see your mom was in battle during those years and you were pretty young? Can you remember much of that? Like how how did that feel kind of growing up around the sort of front lines of these parent rights and school choice discussions?
SPEAKER_02:I think at the time, I was not as appreciative as I am now. So as a teenager, having to see that and kind of experience the difficulties that parents faced, I was like, I don't know what's going on here. But as I got more involved, like Lari said, voluntole to do these things over the years. I mean, we traveled all across the state. So we went from the traditional public school and then we went to a very small private school. We did homeschooling. My sister went to a charter school and then actually eventually graduated from a traditional public school. So we tried all the things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So while we were doing that, we would travel everywhere in Arkansas with my mom, speaking to the, you know, people. Well, we didn't speak, Lori did, but we would be there, you know, and just seeing all this. And as I grew up, I got more involved with some of the work that she did. I would help out here and there. This time it was paid, so it was a little bit more fun. But no, and then I started, I think about a year after she started the Reform Alliance. She was like, hey, I need some help in our office. And I was like, okay. So, and then it just kind of took off from there. Like seeing the changes that came with the succeed scholarship that got started in Arkansas and was run through the Department of Education and the Reform Alliance. I spoke to a ton of those families helping them fill out the applications, just hearing their stories about, you know, what a difference this makes. And then um I had my own son three years ago, which of course changes everything. So I was like, oh my God. So, you know, that is that's just it's so important and it will completely change people's trajectory of their lives. So I am very lucky to have experienced it from my mom.
SPEAKER_01:It's amazing. I have to, I want to dig into Reform Alliance and like let's let people know what you guys are all about. Because this is one of the stronger kind of parent advocacy orgs that I've run across in the whole country. You guys have a very strong reputation among Arkansas families and all tool around Arkansas and meet people, and they all know you guys. I mean, it's it's it's a really great thing. Before I get there though, I have to ask the like classic school choice hater question, which is you did all these unconventional alternative things as a kid, Emmy and your sister. So obviously you guys are screwed up, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, beyond repair.
SPEAKER_01:It's just funny. I I just want to point out, like, here we have somebody that's actively not only, you know, a functioning adult, a caring mother, like a successful person, but also, you know, making a huge difference for the next generation. And to do that, you know, it there's not one track that's the right way. And I just we say that over and over again on this podcast, but I just want to sort of point to you as a great example of this. So thanks for being you. All right, Reform Alliance.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for you.
SPEAKER_01:You started with helping people through the paperwork of the scholarship, but you know, tell me a little bit about what you guys are doing for parents and and what you're hearing from parents in Arkansas. I want, I want to sort of paint a picture for folks.
SPEAKER_03:We we started off before the Reform Alliance, actually. We started off just running around the state making superintendents mad and and helping parents just rally. Um and we did that for, you know, nearly a decade. I mean, the reform alliance is only, what, 10 years old? This last January. So, you know, 10, 15 years prior to that, we uh we just ran around and did community meetings. I mean, the reason everybody knows us in Arkansas is literally we have toured this entire state together, um, you know, at least uh four or five times from STEM to stern. And, you know, we've got we've got cities called Pac Saddle and Possum Grape and Wiener and, you know, I mean, we've we've been, dude, I'm not kidding, look it up. But we do have Paris. We've got Paris, Arkansas. It's Arkansas. In London. We've got London, Arkansas. And so, you know, we we just we knew that if we were gonna have make any change, any change that was lasting change, which would mean legislatively, that we had to have a group of advocates that would come and go to war. And uh, you know, I keep using that word and it seems a little extreme, but it's true. I mean, we're literally fighting for you. I mean, you are fighting too, um, those of us in the battle here, for kids and families to be able to educate their children how they see fit. And and what's so great about this whole thing is people want to pigeonhole it and make it about the religious right or about this, but it's really for every parent, regardless of what you believe. Yeah. I mean, our our whole mantra has always been we want every single child in this state to be educated in the model that fits best for them, regardless of what that is, whether it's public education, private education, a combination of those things, microschools, whatever it is, homeschool, whatever it is. Yeah. And with the curriculum that their parents see fit.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's interesting you use this war analogy. I want to kind of drill into this because I think people think, okay, in war, you have two sides and they're both trying to like kill or destroy the other. But in this case, you're not trying to kill or destroy anyone. You're you're saying, all I want to do is allow these alternatives to survive, to exist, right? So it's a it's a one-sided war in the sense that the laws currently, or some of the older laws especially, prohibit people from doing these other things with their own children. And you're saying, I would like those things to be allowed. Like I want that to not be killed. So it's it's war, but it's a war of of defense, right? I think some people think, oh, we're coming after the system, and we might make little quips sometimes about factory models and one size fits all. But but really, like if people choose that, I'm I'm so happy for them, and I know you are too. Like, please choose what works for your kid and let's open doors and allow options to exist for these these parents that you've spent so much time cultivating relationships and getting to know.
SPEAKER_03:And and the one thing is that, you know, you you said, you know, the system and the openness. So school choice has always been available, but only for the wealthy. Right. And so if you if you were wealthy, you could homeschool your kids or you could put your kids in private school, or you could, you know, set up your own school. It's only the people that are middle income and and lower that struggled with, hey, if my kid has a disability, or if I have a a worldview that doesn't match up with their public school, then I I don't have any choices. And so that's where I was as a mom, was like, look, I don't care if you want your kids to do whatever. This is what I want my kids to do. And I'm a a taxpaying adult, and I should have the right in America to make sure my kids are educated in them, especially if I'm willing to do the due diligence of either homeschooling them or micro schooling them or finding a private school that I agree with.
SPEAKER_01:Convenient for you, and yet it's what you choose and what you want to do. Let's let's shift gears now and just talk about let's talk about the reform alliance and now, right? This moment in Arkansas, you guys are talking to lots of parents. Can you give us kind of a scope of what you're what you're seeing? What do they want? What are the things that this group is is interested in?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think right now is the greatest time that we've had through this whole job. I mean, now we've kind of gone, we're at the the apex. Yeah, the far side of the battle. But, you know, I mean, we're hearing from parents that this is opening up so many new avenues. I mean, not only did people not realize what options they did have, but now they're able to access even more of them. So with the education freedom accounts and with the philanthropic scholarship, um, you know, they can do these things that they never thought were possible for their family. So I just, um, you know, I think it's huge. A couple stories, if you don't mind.
SPEAKER_01:Please.
SPEAKER_02:So we had talked to one family with the education freedom account, and they were needing some assistance with the host homeschool families, things like that. And this mom called me and she was like, she has been homeschooling for years, right? But she had sacrificed, they've kind of made it through with what they had. They've never had a computer. All five of her children have some type of learning disability. So it varies in degree. Her husband wasn't able to work, and you know, she called me and she was like, I really need some help. And they were able to get like a one-handed keyboard for one of their kids. They were able to get like all these different resources for someone who struggled with, I think, their eyesight, things like that. So it was just like, it's huge. It just means so much to be able to be a part of that, be able to help with that. And then, so my husband is a firefighter. And so one of the eligibility categories was first responders in the second year of the EFA. So we didn't qualify because our son is only three. But there were some families that we knew, you know, that were now like, I am able to keep my children home because we have this fund to help us buy the curriculum, do things like that. I mean, obviously they aren't getting paid for homeschooling their family, but they are able to access these options and keep them home where they felt like that was the best place for them. And it was just huge. So I am, you know, it's really exciting. I think all of these things are good things. Obviously, with any new thing, there could be a little bit of trouble, but I think it's all getting um worked out and you know, it's growing so fast. So the first year had 7,500 spots, and I think there were 5,300. And then the second year capped out um at the 14,000, and now we have like 40,000 applications, possibly more now, that are able to use these things and and want them. And I mean, I talked to people even last week that were like, I had no idea that this was an option. What do I do? So I think that as it grows and as people learn more and are less um weary of it because it does sound too good to be true, then it will it will make a huge impact in the education state in Arkansas.
SPEAKER_03:So since 2015, we've gone from no school choice, because that's when the succeed scholarship passed, which was a program for a hundred kids. That's how many we got. And we only got 60 the first year because we got we we didn't get funding till November. And school starts in May or in August. And so we didn't get funding until November. So we really only had that second semester for the the first year of the program. To now, Arkansas, I do believe, is the most universal, most friendly school choice state in America. And so, you know, to those listening and to your audience, I would just share that just keep fighting. Just keep going, just keep and people, you know, I don't know how much policy work that you've been involved in, but people get all caught up and they have to have everything in the first bill. Man, we were so incremental. I mean, we started out with 66 kids and they had to have a severe disability, and then we went to 244, and then we got another, I mean, at one point we had three million dollars. We were pumped, right? I mean, we got three million dollars three years in. Yeah. And, you know, and so here we are now, literally the largest school choice state, not by number, but by program, you know, right things, uh availability in the nation. And so, you know, just making sure that people are informed and and understand, and you just keep going.
SPEAKER_01:It's an inspiring story. And I can hear the passion. Emmy, I'm so glad you brought it back to stories because, you know, obviously we could sit around Little Rock or Phoenix or wherever we are and meet with legislators, and we have to do this, right? You have to do the numbers, you have to look at the the rules and the bills and you know, the politics of all of this. But at the end of the day, these are each one of these is a human being that deserves to be cared for, to be given an opportunity to truly flourish. And so it's it's refreshing and motivating. I mean, I I think the flip side of what you're talking about, Lori, is you know, you've been at it for a long time. 2015 was a while ago. You were so happy with 66. The reason you're day in and day out doing this work is you know these people, you've heard their stories. It's it's incredibly motivating. So hopefully people can connect the dots and find purpose in, you know, creating new opportunities for kids. Uh, to go from zero to where we're at today is is incredible.
SPEAKER_03:Don't you find it interesting that education up until this point was the only entity that there weren't options? I mean, we have doctors that are just for toenails, right? And so, you know, and you got 80,000 kinds of milk. I mean, right now we're on a coconut milk thing and there's almond milk and there's goat milk. And and so here here in America, the freest nation on ever existing on the planet, we took every single child in America and put them in a one model thing for, I mean, I only have two kids and they're like day and night.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right? And so can you imagine in Arkansas, we, you know, we've got upwards of what 485,000 K-12 kids and trying to squeeze all of them in the same. I mean, it's just so disingenuous and irresponsible of the system to do that. I mean, Emmy and I literally say this on a regular, how do we even have a job? How is this a how is this a job?
SPEAKER_01:I th I think this is an important moment for just grace and to say it's it's not like somebody sat down and they said, let's just do this thing to all these people, put them through. It wasn't deliberate that way, right? The only way to get knowledge into the hands of the population was to do it this way. I mean, that this is the 1840s, and you send these teachers around and you show them the ABCs and you give them the slate tablets, and kids sit in desks and they receive instruction. And, you know, the scarce resource was the knowledge itself, right? Like nobody knew your parents don't know how to read, so that's the only way you're gonna learn literacy. And, you know, I I just want to say, like, incredible, right? Great job. Like, so useful for that period. And now, as we've gone, I see the work we're doing as really the next iteration, the next generation of that same spiritual purpose of opening doors for human beings, advancing society collectively too, because if we can give each child an opportunity to truly be the best version of themselves, and that's not going to be done through, you know, in my opinion, a top-down system. I think you really do need opt-in, you need agency. Those things don't exist. It can't exist, you know, it didn't exist for me as a kid. And now to give parents and kids an opportunity, let's find the thing that works for you. Where, you know, like you were saying, 15 years ago, 10 years ago, nobody in Arkansas could do that unless they could pay for private school tuition or move, right? I mean, this is one form of school choice. They could just buy a house in a different area, but not everybody can do that, right? And so now it's open to all of those people. And it's it's a really great moment in time. I'm excited about it. Let's shift gears a little bit here and talk about microschools. Um, Prenda started in in 2018, I think you know. Pretty soon after starting, I started a micro school in my house. We started kind of spreading around Arizona in 2019. And really soon after that, I want to say it was pre-pandemic even, you guys reached out. We we made friends over the internet because you were doing this amazing work. You saw the opportunity, the promise of kind of a community based solution to some of these educational needs. And we did some microschools together way back then. Can you just share a little bit about what you remember of that experience and and kind of what we got to do together? Because, you know, I we're doing a lot of micro schools in Arkansas now and at Things have of course changed, but I I'd love to kind of take our listeners back in time if if you're up for it.
SPEAKER_03:So Wimmy went to a conference and came back and was like, it was kind of a dual thing. I mean, I was like talking to her, like, this is there's got to be something else. And she came back and she goes, I found it. And she goes, It's called a micro school. It was called a no, it was called a pod. At first it was called a parent pod, right? Uh-huh. And she's like, parent pod or microschool or whatever. And so we were just mulling it over and trying to figure out what it was and Googling like crazy. And then the pandemic literally happened. Like uh like in 2015.
SPEAKER_02:I was like, I think I met someone from Prenda in 2019 at a conference. And then in 2020, of course, we had the pandemic happen, and we were like, oh.
SPEAKER_03:And we're like, this is the answer. Yeah. And so we went to again to the Walton Family Foundation and just said, hey, we want to set up microscope. And this was in January or February. And they're like, well, the school year already started. And I'm like, people are going to want to do this regardless because their kids aren't going to school right now. And so with the help of Prenda and your amazing staff, we set up 10 microschools that were fully at capacity, which meant 10 or 15 kids in 30 days across the state.
SPEAKER_01:It's an incredible amount.
SPEAKER_03:It was amazing. It was a god thing. It was truly a god thing. I mean, it was like we it was, but we again, we had already known all the people. We knew all the players, right? I mean, we had gone across the state and people were like starving for, you know, options. And so still today, I mean, a few of those very micro schools now, what, eight years later, are private schools that are serving hundreds of kids with multiple locations. And it's just an amazing story. And, you know, we've always been huge fans of Prenda and believe in your model. And we call it a school in a box, you know, like here. Now set up a school.
SPEAKER_01:Just make try to make it easy. Take the barriers down for people so that more people can get involved in in this work. Can you do you remember much about the types of communities that that were part of that batch of 10 in 2020? I mean, we're we're talking about a wide diversity, if I remember correctly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So they were all over the state. Um, we made, I think we developed an application for it, but they it had to be income-based. So we helped low-income families to be able to access, you know, apprentia model, because again, those are the families that struggle to access education options. So yeah, I mean, we had some in Star City, Pine Bluff, Jonesboro, Perigol. I mean, those are in different parts of the city.
SPEAKER_03:But what's so great about it is there were some that were in kitchens. There were some that were in church. We had a one gal that did it in a she shed, but we had a family that did it in their preschool. Well, actually, we had two of those that did it in in schools, already established preschools or schools. We had one lady do it in her house. I mean, it was just we had a a lady that owned and operated a school for kids with uh developmental um challenges.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, we had one uh two couples do it on a farm. I mean, it was just all over the board. It was amazing. It was absolutely I mean, the pictures are just insane.
SPEAKER_01:It's one of my see if we can find anything that was written back then about it and just share with our listeners. But that that was so fun to just see the work. And I will just say Prenda exists to try to take barriers down, but the you know, the real heroes of these stories are these individuals that stepped up and said, Hey, I've got a need in my community. I think I can serve it. Thankfully, Lori and Emmy knew those people, and then they were able to connect dots, right? And so you had the Waltons, and thankfully, those of our listeners maybe don't know. Waltons from Walmart. This is Bentonville, Arkansas is like Walmart headquarters. And so Arkansas has a special relationship. Although the Waltons have been involved in supporting educational innovation for a long time. In fact, Prenda was given a grant early to do what we're doing with Walton family support. So thank you, Waltons, who are listening. But also, yeah, I think putting it all, putting it all together, right? You now have this world where this can exist, where people, for the first time in history, you can see a need in your community in education and you can meet that need, right? You can create what's missing for your kids, for other people's kids. Uh, and that's been just an exciting piece of this overall movement. I love that we got to do that, do that work together. Okay, let's uh final thing is we've got lots of parents just learning about school choice, just realizing that they have options. You have educators increasingly showing up to, you know, I was out through through Arkansas, and I know you guys came to some of my events. We did coffee shop meetings all over the state, and the people that came a lot of times were teachers, right? They were, you know, they're mid-career even or close to retirement, and they just said, I want to do this, I have this vision, and I'm not able to do it as part of my regular school. So that entrepreneurial spirit that some of these teachers have, what what would you tell people that are just encountering this as a possibility to kind of think differently about education and do microschools? I know you meet with these folks, so what do you tell them?
SPEAKER_02:So I think that the most common thing I say is that it needs to match the need in your community. So it doesn't have to look like, I mean, kind of like Lori was saying about what we set up across the state with you all, I think people get a little bit overwhelmed with all the questions, which is why we are such big fans of you guys just setting up that stuff for people. But it doesn't have to look like anybody else's school. You don't have to have the same hours, the same location, the same students. So it just needs to fit the need in your community. I think that's the that's the biggest thing because folks see someone doing it on the internet, much like anybody these days, and they're like, I want to do exactly that. And I'm like, well, you know, do you have the people that want that in your community?
SPEAKER_03:So that's Do you have goats?
SPEAKER_02:That's like do you own a farm? Um, that's step one. So that's I think that's the biggest thing, which if that's what you want to do, go out and do it. I would never be like, oh, you can't do that. But you you have to meet the need where it is. And if you um you know, I mean, that's I think that's the biggest step. You can't you can't meet a need that's not there. And I think that everyone that we've spoken to has done that. I mean, typically there is a need in their community and they're like, this is what I want to do. I mean, there have been schools, micro schools that have started just for specific audiences. I mean, it's you know, everyone at their school has autism or they have, you know, they play the violin. Yeah. Like it could be they have an art focus, things like that. So it just, I mean, it varies everywhere. So I would say don't make it to where it's going to be a problem. Just solve the problem that you see, and then you'll be good to go. And I mean also call us and we'll help.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, please, please take advantage of the Reform Alliance and we'll we'll put your info in the the lit uh in the show notes so people can find you.
SPEAKER_03:And just take the next step. You know, that's that's the thing. You know, just take just take the next step. And the great thing about a micro school, I mean, we say this about events all the time. It's your micro school. Who's gonna know if you screw something up or it doesn't turn out exactly the way you envisioned it? Nobody. So just do it and you know, make sure that, you know, you have the support of an organization like Prenda or the Reform Alliance or your community. But it if your heart is for your kids to be able to be, you know, home. I mean, we've got right now three, five, and eight that we're looking at going, look, we're we're gonna we're gonna do we help people set up microschools and we're trying to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Sounds like a micro school. Yeah, exactly. I love it.
SPEAKER_03:So um, so it's just it's just that take that next step.
SPEAKER_01:I want to make a I want to make like a a multiple choice test for folks, right? Which which is like, who is the first person you should talk to when you think about starting a microschool? A, a real estate agent, b, a lawyer, c a tax professional, d families. And it's like circle families, like start there. That's what what you're saying is so powerful. It's like listen to the needs and connect with these folks, and then you get this energy source that can help you with the rest of those. Oh, but I think so much of the advice, unfortunately, out there is like this is what a business is. So I have to like do all this official stuff. It's like, no, the main thing a business is is a voluntary exchange, you know, happening for mutual benefit. This is a a small group that's meeting together and meeting needs, and you can do that. So I love that. And then Lori's question, you know, question number two, what should you do first? Like, A, plan for six months until your spreadsheet is perfect, or B, like start a school. You know, it's like just start. Uh so I I'm giving the answers as well as the quiz. But I think there's there's just a huge opportunity here to just to help people recognize, and I think they don't feel like they have permission, or I don't know, what what else do you see as kind of holding people back, you guys?
SPEAKER_02:That would be, I think everyone's a little bit nervous when it comes to change. You know, I know me personally, I'm a big schedule person. So when it gets off, I'm like, but you know, like me not so much. We live in a state of chaos. But you know, I think that everyone embarking on this journey is like, what if I mess it up? Well, again, like Laurie said, what if you do? I mean, as long as you're doing the right thing and you are serving these kids the way they need to be served, everything else will fall into place. You don't have to have a fancy building, you don't have to have, you know, I don't know, big charts on the wall. So it's just you have to make sure that they're learning in an environment that fits them, and that's really all you need to focus on. But yeah, I think I think people just get nervous with the change, which is understandable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I think we've conditioned parents so much that they don't have standing. They don't have standing in their kids' education. And and there's nobody on the planet, I don't care who you are as a parent, there's nobody else that has the heart for your kid more than you do.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so it's it just, you know, I mean, as parents and grandparents, our our internal barometer is set by our kids and grandkids. Like, you know, this is what we do. This this was the entire reason we were born first, was to shepherd these people behind us. And so I think just just channeling the fact that, you know, it's our responsibility, it's actually the parents' responsibility to educate our children. It's not the state's. And I think that's been removed a lot in a lot of the conversations. And people have been talked into, you know, if you don't send your kid to a public school, then somehow you're, you know, some kind of derelict or fringe person. And it's just not true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. I I think I'm I'm hearing a really strong undertone of what my kids would say, which is just trust. You know, they they just say trust. But it it just means like I think, you know, you don't, you should trust yourself. You should trust your criteria, your qualifications as a parent and as a human. You're capable of more than you think. And I hope people listening to this will take a little bit of confidence and will step up and and maybe say, hey, maybe I should have a say in how this goes. Maybe I should take ownership in this and partner with my kid to make sure that they have the very best educational environment possible and take advantage of all these resources in Arkansas, if you're there, that will hopefully open doors for everybody. You guys, this has been I 100% agree, Lori, and I love it. I mean, if you walk the halls of the Arizona or the Arkansas State Capitol, you will hear about Lori Lee, who's a force of nature, everybody knows it, and the impact that she's had on education policy in the state. So you might think you have to go to Harvard Kennedy School and learn public policy and get advanced degrees. What she's saying is it's passion, it's hustle. Lori, you also, both of you, really model being a learner in a way that, you know, for me, Prenda is all about helping develop learners in this way that will go out, solve problems, and make the world around them better. And that's what we need. We need each person to do that, whether you're a parent, an educator, or a kid, if you're somehow listening to this as a, you know, K through 12 student, like I hope you'll take the same the same lessons to heart, right? That you can create the the world you want and you can be part of the solution. Wow, it's inspiring. It's so fun to talk to you guys. As we rap as we wrap up, will you each just share a person in your life who's helped you to kindle a love of learning in your life? If you could kind of think of somebody that you'd like to shout out.
SPEAKER_02:I'd say my mom. I mean, all of this is because of her. So work and being a mom myself has all come from her.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know that there's an individual person. I mean, my parents told me from the time I was able to understand, like, you can do anything you want to do. You have a God-given gift and a purpose, and you can do whatever you want. And so I have always been a person that was like, saw something, did something, and I raised my kids that way. I mean, Emmy's that way. You know, if I stopped tomorrow, she would, she would be just like taking finger out of water, man. She would just be like right there, and she has been. You know, I'm trying to segue out at almost 60 and say, look, you know, it, this is this is yours. We built this together. This is yours. And I want you to go out there. And if this is what uh God's put on your heart, then then you continue the the thing. And she has. I mean, she's making a name for herself. She's on all these national calls and and doing it. So I think there's a mutual admiration society here between the two of us. Just, you know, just looking at it from a different perspective of someone who was imparted on through a legacy of people who were workers and visionaries and and people who just decided to have gumption and somebody who's implementing that and now passing it to her son.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so grateful that we did this podcast with both of you together. There's something beautiful in the parent-child relationship here as well. And I hope people can see it. I just recently was listening to, uh, I was listening to uh David Brooks, who is a columnist and a really thoughtful guy. And what David Brooks says is you've got a whole, you know, generations now of parents who are so worried and so stressed about their kids' futures and their outcomes that they're they wage a 13-year war is how he describes it, basically trying to force and cajole and push their kids into the high-achiev, you know, hoop jumping behaviors that somehow they believe are the necessary things. And for you guys to have said, no, we don't want to do it that way, to prioritize the relationship, but also to prioritize mission and purpose and impact in the world. And you've been able to do amazing things together, and it's clear that you still like each other, which is an inspiring thing. So I'm excited for people to get to know you through this podcast episode. And and really, thanks again. Thanks for the work you're doing in Arkansas. Thanks for spending time with us today and sharing a little bit about your story. It's been super fun.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much for having us. The Kindled Podcast is brought to you by Prenda. Prenda makes it easy to start and run an amazing microschool based on all the ideas we talk about here on the Kindled Podcast. Don't forget to follow us on social media at PrendaLearn. And if you'd like more information about starting a microschool, just go to Prenda.com. Thanks for listening and remember to keep Kindling.
