Dive headfirst into a journey of spiritual growth and leadership as Pastor Jason Watson of Cross Point Church and Pastor Seth Odom of Reliant Church, unveil the transformative power of discipleship. Season two of Pastor to Pastor is ablaze with new beginnings, as evidenced by the roar of our fresh logo, and an unwavering commitment to nurturing the faith within our congregations. This episode promises a treasure trove of wisdom, from tales of church expansion to the groundbreaking initiatives like Crosspoint Christian Academy that are reshaping the very fabric of our communities.
Feel the pulse of authenticity in our candid conversation about the pivotal role of discipleship in church life. We dissect the repercussions of COVID-19 on discipleship practices and the perils of quick-fix theological answers proliferating in an information-saturated age. Church leaders and believers alike, prepare to be galvanized by our discussion on the critical nature of engaging with scripture and the necessity for intentionality in pursuing a deeper connection with Christ. It's not just about absorbing the Word; it's about being equipped to interpret and apply it to life's complexities, with a spirit of true discipleship.
Cap off your experience with invaluable, practical guidance for fostering discipleship. Reflect with us on the vitality of personal consistency in faith, the benefits of a challenging faith community, and the often-understated importance of mentorship. This episode is not merely a listen; it's an invitation to ignite passion and intention in your spiritual walk and leadership. Join Pastor to Pastor and me as we delve into the intricacies of leading and living with unwavering faith, and discover how both mentors and disciples alike can thrive in their spiritual journeys together.
Dive headfirst into a journey of spiritual growth and leadership as Pastor Jason Watson of Cross Point Church and Pastor Seth Odom of Reliant Church, unveil the transformative power of discipleship. Season two of Pastor to Pastor is ablaze with new beginnings, as evidenced by the roar of our fresh logo, and an unwavering commitment to nurturing the faith within our congregations. This episode promises a treasure trove of wisdom, from tales of church expansion to the groundbreaking initiatives like Crosspoint Christian Academy that are reshaping the very fabric of our communities.
Feel the pulse of authenticity in our candid conversation about the pivotal role of discipleship in church life. We dissect the repercussions of COVID-19 on discipleship practices and the perils of quick-fix theological answers proliferating in an information-saturated age. Church leaders and believers alike, prepare to be galvanized by our discussion on the critical nature of engaging with scripture and the necessity for intentionality in pursuing a deeper connection with Christ. It's not just about absorbing the Word; it's about being equipped to interpret and apply it to life's complexities, with a spirit of true discipleship.
Cap off your experience with invaluable, practical guidance for fostering discipleship. Reflect with us on the vitality of personal consistency in faith, the benefits of a challenging faith community, and the often-understated importance of mentorship. This episode is not merely a listen; it's an invitation to ignite passion and intention in your spiritual walk and leadership. Join Pastor to Pastor and me as we delve into the intricacies of leading and living with unwavering faith, and discover how both mentors and disciples alike can thrive in their spiritual journeys together.
Hey, it is time for season two. Woo-woo, Pastor to Pastor. Look, I am Pastor Jason Watson, Cross Point Church here in Lombard, North Carolina, and along with me, as always, Pastor Seth Odom from Reliant Church in. Southern Pines, North Carolina. I'm excited, brother.
Speaker 2:Look, it's time for season two. I can't wait. I don't know if you noticed this, but we've got a new logo, guys, and Pastor Jason has the Lion of Judah beard.
Speaker 1:It's just dripping with anointing right now, hey, twigs and Berries, baby Twigs and Berries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited to be kicking off a new series and a new episode and season. It's going to be a great time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got so much planned for this year. In particular, we've already reached out a few different people and we've got some people coming in to bring in some hot topics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and some things for us to grow, not only as pastors, but as leaders, as followers of Christ, as disciples. And that's really kind of a great way to kind of open up the topic that we're going to be discussing today, the topic of discipleship. But before we get there, hey, tell me about Sunday man. How was Sunday's service at Reliant Church this morning?
Speaker 2:It was awesome, man. It's always good to see new people, new smiling faces, and just hearing the stories of how God led them to church. And we're in what we call a new series called the Mature Audiences Only. So, what we're doing is weeding out the immaturity in the church, and so it's going. Good man, god's moving at Reliant. We're growing, lives are being changed, souls are being saved, so we can't ask for nothing else, hey awesome, hey, and just also kind of highlight what's happening.
Speaker 1:So you guys are entering into a season two where you're trying to, where people are sewing into your ministry. You said you felt, beginning of the year, god was leading you to take up some collections.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we are. We are what we're calling the road to 100,000. And we're trying to raise, by April 1st, $100,000 to go to land to purchase a building or to lease a building in order for us to be able to renovate it. So we feel that God's opening this door and when he does open it, we want to be prepared for it and financially, we've got a little bit of work to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah awesome. Hey, so people are sewing in faith, and so where can they go if they want to give and to rely in your, in your, in your? Yeah awesome.
Speaker 2:They can go to reliantchurchncorg and just click give, go in and click future home, or just cash up and put future home in the memo and it goes directly to that account. Yeah, that's awesome, man.
Speaker 1:Perfect opportunity for people to sew, and sew in faith, into some good soil.
Speaker 2:That's right Come on.
Speaker 1:I can tell you that Reliant Church is some good soil and so we're super excited to see what God's going to do this year through Reliant Church. You guys are already growing and leaps and bounds and and looking forward to seeing what God's going to do. I can see here at Crosspoint man, it has been been kind of wild. God is doing so much. We just launched, as of this week, crosspoint Christian Academy Come on, dude. So and we have had several, several people reach out. You know our focus really is providing a safe place for kids to be educated, and not just educated, but Christ centered education, development, discipleship, teaching. Like we are doing some biblical classes, some Bible classes, and in fact, you're going to be a part next year After, after the the opening launch.
Speaker 1:We've already been, we've technically already launched because we've had some of our own people, some of our own children this year. Some of our Crosspoint kids have been going to the Academy already this year. But we wanted to make sure, before we launched this to the public, we were right and that we were on the right thing and it has been amazing. I can tell you just firsthand that, like, even my son, caleb, has been going to the school and he's been. He's been growing in ways I never imagined. Just the right environment, so when, so when people in the right environment is, is tremendously helped him and like he is almost a whole new kid, in a way.
Speaker 2:Oh, man, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all the kids who have been coming are they're tight group and we're going to open that, that same teaching style. We're going to open that group up to the public and we've been working hard behind the scenes to make sure this thing is launched successfully. But it is. It is awesome, and so February 9th you can go to crosspointchristianacademycom and register to join us on February 9th as we talk about what Crosspoint Christian Academy is about.
Speaker 1:Some opportunities, some new ways to go ahead and put your application in. We're only taking 45 students this year, so, hey, you get an opportunity to go check that out and make sure you do it. It is a huge, huge opportunity, guys doing some big things in 2024.
Speaker 2:Hey, man, y'all getting them saved and educated. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, hey.
Speaker 1:So the topic we're talking on today is discipleship, and so, man, let's just dive right into it. So let's talk about it. Why, pastor, why is discipleship so important, like that's the first thing we got to talk about?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that unfortunately in the modern church today, we've diluted a relationship with Christ to a Sunday worship set.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2:And really, what we understand is this if the only time we spend with Christ is on Sunday, we don't have relationship. We have a habit.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:We have a habit of not just pastors and leaders, but everyone who calls Jesus Christ their Savior. They have an obligate obligation to one be disciple but also make disciples.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:We've got to hear Matthew, chapter 28, verses 19 through 20. I want you to read that for me and understand this what pastor Jason is getting ready to read. It's not a suggestion, no-transcript, it's a commandment.
Speaker 1:Commandment. That's right. So Matthew 28, 19 through 20 says go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and verse 20 says teaching them to obey all things that I have commanded you, and, lo, I am with you always, even until the end of the age, amen. So it's important to understand that we are called to to be disciples and we're called to disciple other people. Notice how we didn't say go save people, that's right. Yeah, like he didn't stop at hey, go save people. No, he said go and create disciples. Your salvation is a part of your discipleship, like that's the doorway, that's the entryway into the kingdom, and your discipleship is is clear, like in the Hebrew. What it means is to become a pupil, to become a student, and in order to follow Jesus, you have to be taught, you have to to learn some new things and and you guys have something you say along with that right.
Speaker 2:What we tell our people is this is that you cannot make what you have not become. So when he says go make disciples. But yet you're not. You're not even creating an own path for you personally to daily become a disciple. Then you're, you're failing the system that God created. And so what we're finding in the church today is that we have people unequip, discipling people, and now we're making disciples that are just not following the pattern of the word of God, Because those making on Pastor Jason, they're not in it themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true, man, and it's so scary in so many ways. In fact, there are a lot of people who will follow a church culture or a or a, or just a culture in general, where this is just how we do it, but we don't have a clue why we do it, yeah, or that we do this because we've always done it, and but I don't really know what the science is behind it, I don't know what the scripture is behind it. I just know that that's how we've always done it, that's how my mom and them did it, and and that's just how we do it, and and so you can end up lost and following a cultural habit instead of a biblical truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so it is super, super important, that is, if we are studying scripture for ourselves. Paul's, like I wish you all were, like the Bereans. You would study the word and you would know and you would hold people accountable and not just following along in some, in some ritual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is why Paul also says Pastor Jason, he says you've been taught, but we had to keep reteaching you because you refuse to dive deep into the gospel, into the word, and actually be able to stop getting on milk and start getting on the meat of the word, and that's because we we live in a quarter of lack of discipleship, because the discipleship takes time.
Speaker 2:It takes effort. You, you need to stop scrolling for a few minutes and spend time with the Lord, or you have to stop doing the pleasures that you want to have in this life and actually be discipled through the Holy Spirit, through his word. That's why the passage Romans 12, too. It tells us to change the way we think, be transformed. It says this be transformed by the renewing of your mind, which means my mind is made up on Christ.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, you know when you get saved.
Speaker 2:Pastor Jason, I tell our people this as well is salvation is far more than a prayer. Oh yeah, it's a daily decision. When you actually want to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, you wake up and you choose him daily, to follow him, to be in his word, to be led by him. And it's so important.
Speaker 1:We've got to do that, yeah it's true, and it's not even just for, it's not just for the congregants, it's also for the leaders and for the pastors and it's for all of us. You know, mary and Martha, one was busy about many things and the other one was doing the right thing, sitting at the feet of Jesus, and that's the season that we've been in here at Crosspoint since the, since the new year. God told me months and months and months ago almost really I think it's been last year as we had in the last year. He pointed out how important discipleship was for our congregation and even you know this, even like I've.
Speaker 1:On Wednesday nights we do Bible study Like we. We we break open the word, we study the word together, we chew it up, like Wednesday night is different for us than than Sunday mornings. You know, preaching is absolutely gotta happen, but discipleship is just as important, because I want you to understand what you're reading. I want you to be able to read it for yourself and disciple and digest it for yourself.
Speaker 1:Like so, many people are still being taught the way to Moses to come down the mountain, when they need to be going up the mountain themselves and not waiting for a man just to give them a word Like yeah, you got to have a mentor, you got to have a pastor, somebody covering over you. But look, you can get a word from God just as well as anybody else can, and that's what my job is on Wednesday night is to teach people like this is the word, this is how you chew it, this is how you break it down, this is how you understand it, so that you can get a word for yourself when you're in a season where maybe you, or a time where you're not right there next close to somebody who can help you break it down. I want to teach you how to break it down yourself. Yep.
Speaker 2:I think through through COVID. One of the things that it has exposed is the church's inability to disciple.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It showed us that we would rather get our theology off of TikTok and we would rather just think which is a horrible, horrible place to start.
Speaker 1:I can't tell you how many people come to me and say pastor, I saw this on TikTok. Yeah, look at this video. Stop watching TikTok for your theology, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's because because we think that we can get a quick fix. Discipleship and spending time with Lord is not a quick fix.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:It's not what it is. It's not like. Okay, I spent time with the Lord because I read the daily verse on our Bible app.
Speaker 1:That's not discipleship.
Speaker 2:That's just you getting a brief word.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Discipleship is you actually making time to be with the Lord, with the scriptures, with the Holy Spirit, to teach you something for that day. And there's so many different ways that you could do discipleship, especially as a leader. Churches have different ways that they do it. What are some ways that you guys house discipleship for your people?
Speaker 1:Well, you know discipleship is, it is a specific thing, but it's a broad topic. Yeah, like I was telling somebody the other day, as we're, as we're studying, we're talking about some people saying, well, you know, pastor, I really feel like we can do this, or I feel like we can do that, and I'm like, great, you're absolutely right, we can. But what you have to understand is that there are specific individual things that we're teaching and we're developing and we're growing right now in this season. Like, yeah, we can do this and yeah, we can do that, but what is God saying we need to do? And another thing, too, is you have to realize a lot of times your pastor isn't just should be right.
Speaker 1:Your pastor is, is teaching a whole congregation. There are some seasoned saints who understand the deep truths of the Bible and there are some brand new, beginner saints that are, that are just fully understanding what salvation means. And so my job is to try to get us all walking on the same path and and there will be different levels of understanding amongst, amongst the congregation, amongst the people. That shouldn't stop you from digging into it yourself and growing yourself, but but there are different. So when I'm talking about discipleship like there's, there's, you can.
Speaker 1:You will never understand all of it, like I've been in law enforcement for 18 years and I don't understand every aspect of law enforcement because it's such a broad subject. And so, understanding God and who God is and the authority that we have, and you know, when you start breaking down the different things of salvation and and deliverance and and all these evangelism, and when you start breaking down all these different components of what it means to be a kingdom citizen, you can study your whole life and never fully get all of it. So, but one thing I find to be important that we do is we not only teach and and we're we're called train the trainer right, that's how we do in law enforcement or teach the teacher. Like we want you to understand it yourself, we want you to dig into it yourself. We also want to provide the opportunity for you to put in the practice what you've learned.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess another thing that it's one thing to be taught and you never put it in the practice. But we want to create opportunities and environment for you to put in the practice what we talked about on Wednesday night. So we have different things like Like pulling prayer on Sunday, on Saturday mornings from 10 to 11 here in Lombard, the corner of church and Main Street and Church Street, right of off-street names, in corner church in Maine, and so To put into practice what it means to pray, what it means to be little, the spirit, those kinds of different things. So so we teach and then we also bring practicality and put into practice what we've learned in different ways. I feel like you can learn a lot of different ways one being taught, one seeing reading, but all but practical application is super important and what we do in leading people in discipleship here at cross-point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's important. One thing that you said that I think our leaders should not miss is that you disciple people at their level. Yeah and you build on that foundation and you can, they can continue to grow at Reliant. We do discipleship through what we call circles. Yeah and we like to use it. We call it a Moses and Jethro model, where Jethro comes and sees Moses has got way too much on his plate. He's like why don't you just find some men who are good reputation, who are close to God, and that?
Speaker 2:you trust and split them up. And so he splits all these people up so that people can get the attention that they need, the discipleship that they need and really the proximity that they need from leadership. And so, through our circles, our circle leaders, know that now, when state leaders circle, which which is probably 10 or 12 people at a time, yeah you know it can be smaller, but no bigger than that.
Speaker 2:We, we we put the responsibility on a them to make sure they dedicate time to Discipling them, but also, outside of that, to help. This is a lot of people don't want to disciple people because we we've all grown up thinking You've got to get 12 disciples. Yeah you've got to find 12 people to disciple and then that's it. Like that's the goal? Well, our goal is this is you start with one?
Speaker 1:That's it, sorry, sorry one start with one.
Speaker 2:Learn a system, learn a, learn a way to do it that you can cultivate one, your own teaching ability. Yeah through someone and then get more comfortable and then you can start training and developing and discipling other people. And so there's different stages, kind of like you guys, different stages where we're trying to develop our leaders into being discipling leaders.
Speaker 2:Yeah not not just preaching leaders and leaders who just give direction, but actually Leaders that have proximity, because discipleship when you're making disciples is all about proximity and availability and meeting people where they're at to get them to where you know God wants them to be, not just spiritually but also scripturally, and knowing and knowing God's words, so that next time they have a battle they don't have to call somebody. They know how to go to the word and know how to find it. So what the shirts don't do anymore now is teach people how to find scripture and understand scripture in the Bible.
Speaker 2:Yeah they don't know how to break it down and know how to read it. They don't know any depth of the word and See a lot of people get irritated with their church folk. But how are you discipling them? Are you just giving them a word and sending them on their way, or you teaching them?
Speaker 1:how to read it and are you making them dependent on you? Exactly and so you'll find a dude. I granted there's probably some people who listen to this podcast who've been preaching and ministering and pastoring for years, and I haven't been doing it that long compared to me. But I can tell you this I learned early on, and this is leadership 101 you can't do it all by yourself.
Speaker 2:That's right, in fact, we that's what Jeff Royce and the Moses right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you're talking about that model right, and that model is super important, that that you Train others to train others, to train the trainer, like it's my job to teach you how to read the scriptures, my job to teach you, to mentor you, to coach you, my leaders, so that they can coach, train and mentor their people. You cannot do it all yourself. You've got to. We can't build Ministries that are dependent solely on the pastor, because that's not, that's not, that's not ministry. I mean you will end up wearing yourself down and breaking yourself down to a meltdown If, if you aren't training people how to, how to raise them, how to raise themselves, how to raise other people.
Speaker 2:We got a quick spoon feeding everybody man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it, and so it is super important. In fact, I was. I was meeting with an, a couple, yesterday, matter of fact, and we were sitting down, we were talking as a elderly couple in the church and some beautiful, beautiful saints man, saints of God, and we were talking and they're like.
Speaker 1:They were just like I don't know how you do all that. You do, like you got the school going on, you work a 40 hour a week job. You, you're trying to keep the church moving. You got all these different things happening and I said, look, it's not, it's not me. First of all is Jesus and second of all is the, the team that God's helped build, or in the core of the church. Like, like without them, without Jesus, without and without that team You'd be, you'd be getting some preaching on on Sunday and we'd be calling it a day.
Speaker 1:Because there's no possible way I could run every single ministry that we have and minister our people, as well as evangelize and Apostle and do all these different things, these different offices that the church has. Like there's no way I could do it all and still and lead our people will. Like there's no way. It wouldn't be efficient and it wouldn't be effective. It's just simply to bear the burden all by myself, right? And so the pastor's job, the offices of the ministry, the offices of the church, are to to build the saints, to Edify them, to build them up, to prepare them for the work of the ministry. It is not the pastor's job to do it. Sheep make sheep, that's right. And we have to prepare sheep to make other sheep, that's right. And so that's what our job is.
Speaker 1:And so I would think, when it comes to engaging people in discipleship, it starts with leadership. Yeah, for sure. Yes, it starts with them. You have to, it has to be you, you have to make it an importance for people to study, for Creating space for people to learn and become discipled. And I've struggled with this as well because, let's be honest, people want to come here on Sunday morning and they want the Holy Spirit to move, and they want the goose bumps and they want all these different things. But on Wednesday night, when we're breaking down the word of God, when we are actually teaching the people how to Become, how to be disciples, how to be pupils, like, the attendance numbers are very different on a Wednesday night in most churches. Then they are on a Sunday morning, because most people don't want to be disciples that goes.
Speaker 2:That goes to renewing our minds, to Passenger Jason, because we live in a society of church culture where Worship is the biggest part of Sunday now, where I want my emotions touched, I want to feel God's presence and and then I'm good to go with a good, encouraging feeling. Yeah, what I told our church this morning was I don't care how great worship is or if the order is full, before I preach You're gonna leave with a word. And here's why is because as good as worship is and as good and emotional you may feel, there are still some people who get nothing out of that. But everybody can get something out of a word.
Speaker 2:I said and it's renewing your mind that I need. I need the worship side of this thing, but I also, even more so, I need the word of God in my life. And I need it more than just a Sunday. Yeah, and we've got to be able to shift this, this mindset, that Sunday's enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's not it's not nearly enough like you just got. You've got to learn to dive in the word, make disciples and change the way we think, just like paul says, and when it comes to viewing church, reviewing relationship with christ.
Speaker 1:And so, and I mean, you know too, also reading scripture, that there are people who, who have, who have streaks on their bible apps and there are people who, man, I've read script, I've read one chapter a day, for. But my question is okay, let's great, you read the bible in a year. Whoo Hooray for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah what have you got out of it, Right you?
Speaker 1:learned? Yeah, I mean there's that traditional or ritual reading, and then there's and there's reading for historical knowledge, reading because I mean the bible is a living, true document. Um, and they're. They constantly prove the bible right in science, right, uh, but then what are you getting from it spiritually? Are you taking your time? Like, like we're told to meditate on the word? Like, are you taking time? I don't care if you read one verse in a day, what are you getting out of that one verse?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, to be honest, I've been trying to get through romans for like three months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm with you, it's like okay, hold on yeah we. We did a series on Ephesians, four chapters, man, and it took us.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry six chapters.
Speaker 1:It took us a long time just to get through that one book. And I'm talking about when, when you really take your time, when you really dive into it, you'll realize just how much meat, just how much is in that word, if you'll take time to really study it. But you're right, you know, talk about romans 12 to the renewing of your mind. There's a lot of things. You, you're a christian now you're christlike, you're an ambassador of christ. There's a lot of things you got to unlearn. There's a lot of worldly things you need to unlearn and you need your mind to be renewed. And and the word does that- this sunday I preached on this.
Speaker 2:I talked about maturing at our mind and I used this passage and I talked about your mind. When you renew it, you're able to find the counterfeits in your life. You know, like a bank teller, when they are training them to find a counterfeit.
Speaker 2:They don't focus they don't focus on the counterfeit bill, they focus and play with the genuine bills, they toss them and run them through their fingers and that that way they know when a counterfeit slides into the stack of money, they can easily call it out for what it is. And when we renew our minds through the word, through the truth of god's word and what he says about you, you're able to call out the counterfeits and the lies from the enemy over your life. And that's where we've got to be. We've got to be able to get in the word so that we can call out the lies. The enemy tells us, the world tells us, other people tell us and live on the truth of god's word. But the problem is is we've got to have a hunger for it, pastor jason?
Speaker 2:We've got to we've got to teach our people to make christ a Proud already, challenge them to get out of their comfort zone, spend time with god, spend time with his word and truly Wake up pursuing him more than anything else.
Speaker 1:That's it. We're going on a leader's retreat this coming week and, uh, it's the first one we've taken and so I'm super stoked about it. I've spent so much time and energy and effort just into it because there's got to be, so we've got to do some new things around here to get focused. And but one word as we head into this season, as we head into this, this retreat that god's given me is intentional. Be intentional and that's a word for everybody, that ain't just my, that ain't just our leaders here at cross point, like that's a word for everybody. Be intentional in what you do. Am I doing it just because I've always done it, or am I intentional behind what I feel like god's calling me to do? Are we, am I intentionally spending time with god or am I just going through the motions right? Am I intentionally about, am I intentional about, reading scripture or am I just doing it because that's what a good christian?
Speaker 2:does I care more about that streak? Oh yeah and I do what I'm actually, what I'm reading, what I'm getting out of it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, you read the bible in a year Congratulations. Uh, what'd you get, like you said, right, I know?
Speaker 2:someone who read it six times in one year. It was excited about it. I'm like I don't know how.
Speaker 1:What did you get out of it? Something out of it, but I mean, you know, what did you really get out?
Speaker 2:of it. I'm not that committed bro.
Speaker 1:That's. That's a lot, man, I would much rather. Personally, I would much rather read, you know, a verse in a day and really glean from what, what god's trying to show me, what's in god's word for that? Then I would read for a whole, you know, six times in a year and just kind of get through it. Yeah, there's, you can. You can just get through it, but what are you getting out of it? Yeah, that's the question.
Speaker 1:There you go and so, um, engaging people in discipleship, that's a tough one. Yeah, that's. That's. That's one of our topics here about discipleship how do you engage people in discipleship? And I can tell you, it's kind of really along with what we've talked about. Yeah, yeah, it's being intentional, it's not just reading, it's not just literally. We had four Rededications today and three salvation and children's ministry.
Speaker 1:That doesn't come from reading out of a quarterly Right. That doesn't come from reading Just just simply. That comes from being intentional, that comes from listening to the Holy Spirit, that comes from leading people and from and leading these children's man in in the children's ministry, like if all I did, like if all we did and kudos to our youth ministers and kudos to our children's ministers like If they're just simply reading, then, then are. Are we making space? Yeah, are we? Are we asking the Holy Spirit to lead us? And and are we following the Holy Spirit or are we just going through the motions?
Speaker 2:Baby sitting making the side, that's right. I'm trying to build an army, right yeah.
Speaker 1:God's army and so I'm super important when it engages in my thing. It just comes from kind of what we've already talked about intentionality. Yeah, there is learning by reading, learning by being taught, learning by getting a word from God, leading by experience. Being a student takes it, takes all of it to be effective and efficient. So the next, the next time we talked about we're gonna we got here on the list is is moving beyond a sermon. Yeah moving beyond preaching.
Speaker 2:I think one of the questions we have to ask ourselves as Pastors this is more geared toward leadership, those that speak Throughout the week or whenever it may be is what? What are you allowing God to feed you personally? Yeah, I know that we can get in a habit of preparing sermons, but we don't. We don't spend much time just developing ourselves through God's word. What is God speaking to me individually now? Many times my discipleship, personal discipleship, translates into a word down the road, most of the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so for me. What it looks like for me is I. I spend Two or three days a week working on a sermon, but every day in the morning I'm reading a passage for myself. Yeah, that has nothing to do typically with that sermon. I love how God works that out, though A lot of the times you don't think it has anything to do, but God somehow works those things in for you, but but you can't get called up.
Speaker 2:Pastor Jason, in making sermon prep, you're a discipleship. Yeah, that's not what it is. You're making a disciple, but are you still becoming one? Yeah you know, and so we. You can easily get into the habit of reading scripture. This is what I tell our people all the time. I took a poll in our church. I said how many of you read scripture and immediately think about somebody else who needs to read it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're like sure yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's, that's error, because God will take you to a scripture many times, to to it same thing with us with our sermons. Mm-hmm, it hits us first. He deals with us first so that we can deal with his people. Yeah and the same thing with us when it comes beyond preaching a sermon, but actually doing personal devotion is actually reading it in the context. Okay, what are you teaching me first? That's where we need to be at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And and I'll tell you what I've told people before Preaching a sermon look, if it's a stepping on your toes, know that my will bleed earlier. This ain't nothing new. Like my, I'm walking on gals right now yeah yeah, absolutely right when it comes down to that.
Speaker 1:But you know also too, like we talked about moving beyond a sermon, like a sermon Moves you, why we talked about You'll feel the goosebumps, like God's in it. But what are you doing after that? Yeah, what are you spending time chewing on the word? Are you spending time breaking down the word, like if a man of God and you truly believe he's a man of God or woman of God Teaching you and preaching the word for you or to you from God, then what are you doing with that word? Are you walking out of here forgetting about it? Or are you taking time to what the week? To go back and listen, to go back and read over your notes, to study scripture, to Let God speak to you through that scripture for yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know one thing that you do that was probably convenient for people who really are Rising really early and traveling is Turning on a podcast getting poured in through someone else and just getting a word from them. That that mean that that's something you can really get poured into and help disciple yourself. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm telling you you will never learn at all. You can't. There is just the script, scripture, and we talked about this being a disciple, like, but there there are. There's so much to the kingdom of God, yeah, like, not one person has it all. That's right. And so there you can learn and learn and learn for yourself, constantly and nonstop. I'll put it to you like this To be a teacher, to be a nurse, to be in law enforcement, there's these things called continuing education you have to do constantly.
Speaker 1:To be a doctor, like you're constantly learning, even to be a pastor, like within the IPHC, like we're constantly. There's this continuing education You're supposed to be studying and listening to and growing and developing in, because you'll never learn at all, right, and but it's important that we continue studying to be the best student of the gospel and of this way of life we call Christianity the way, like in order for us to be of the way we need to be studying the way so that we understand it, yeah, and we can share it with other people. That's right. So, all right, so let's move on to this. So, practical discipleship tips. Pastor, what you got.
Speaker 2:I would say get consistent personally. Get consistent personally. I think prematurely we jump into Finding people to disciple and mentor without really getting ourselves a good foundation of what we believe, why we believe. Get prepared, be prepared. And then I think another thing is that we need to find people who sharpen us. Yeah we don't need a bunch of fan cheerleaders around us. You know, I'd say this all the time. One of the greatest things you can do is get a circle. Your circle will not look like you.
Speaker 2:Yeah and not think like you. And if you're the smartest one in the circle, you need to get a new circle. Yeah because you need people who can sharpen you and challenge you and make you better. And one of the things growing in ministry I've learned this is never feel like. Your iron never needs to be sharpened.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, In the moments you feel like you know it all that there's, there's probably a little bit of pride creeping and a little problem going on for you and I think one of the best things that I've learned to do is, you know, a lot of people put pressure a lot of pastors put pressure on people to start their day off with a word and for some people that's just hard to now. They're forcing themselves to rush through a word and it creates an unhealthy habit, and that habit, when it's unhealthy like that, the PCI just disappears quickly. I would say one of the greatest tips that I can give someone who's trying to find more time with the word and more what time to be disciple by God is the to find it when it works for you in your schedule. Make it daily.
Speaker 1:Yeah but?
Speaker 2:but don't feel pressured by people to have to do it first thing in the morning. If it I mean, it is what it is it don't make you less Holy. It doesn't make you less Right yourself. God's can still speak to you at six o'clock at night, that he can at six in the morning.
Speaker 1:And I woke up to and on that fact, like I believe there are some things in your life you can cut out, you can fast and to improve your relate to your understanding, your relationship. However, I would tell you that, like there's a, there's a push for me to get up in the morning and spend time with God, but first thing in the morning, it's not my best time.
Speaker 1:Yeah the very first thing, like when I first wake up, I'm stumbling down the stairs, yeah, I'm trying to grab a cup of coffee and I'm trying to wake up, yeah. And so if I'm trying to force myself To, to jump into scripture that early in the morning, like that's, that's not the time when I'm most coherent and I'm most focused. Now there are more some mornings where I am. There's some mornings I wake up and I'm like, okay, lord, yeah, I'm here, yeah, let's, let's do it right.
Speaker 1:There are some times where it's like, if you have to ask yourself is if am I giving my best to God or am I giving him what's left?
Speaker 2:over. Yeah, yeah, and you know, pastor Jason Cooke was here and I've tried my best to rise earlier, like him and do this, but to be honest, I'm miserable when I try to do it. Yeah, I'm just not. I'm not. I feel like I'm giving God my all by giving Getting up, but when I get there, my mind's not ready. I'm trying to force it. You got to just find what works for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah you do, you have to make it an intention. You have to be intentional with it. Yeah, you have to. You have to give God your best, but don't just, don't just give him just whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no cookie cutter way to be disciple yeah.
Speaker 1:I think we learned in, you know, between Cain and Abel, you know yeah the difference between giving God your best and giving him just whatever Yep and so give him your best, super, super important.
Speaker 1:All right, I believe that a great way to be disciple is to find somebody like you talked about a circle, to find somebody to help mentor you. Yeah, there are a lot of people out here who have lived a whole lot of life, who are seasoned saints like there's a great place for elders in a church To help. I mean you can go to and you can talk with and you can sit down. It doesn't always have to be your pastor, like there's a lot man, there's a lot of seasoned saints who have been through any and every situation you will have been through or go through, and they've come through on the other side of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:And so I find it, when it comes to Discipleship, finding a good, solid mentor, a new group or a new person who can, who can pour into you. Granted, gotta do it on your own, we talked about that but a good portion of it could be finding the right mentor for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when you do those personal devotions and discipleship you may have questions. Having someone that can help bring clarity, who's walked that out already, did the study, did the due diligence on those things who can help make the understanding a lot easier, so you don't have to do this thing by yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and something I've started doing too is pairing some of our young people with our older people. Hey, check on this person every day, see, how they're doing. See what they're studying. Like press them. You ask them hey, what's God speaking to in your life? I mean, what's God speaking in your life? What have you been studying in scripture? Or hey, just check up on them. A love on them. Let them know that they're loved and they're appreciated.
Speaker 2:And that's the part of becoming so that you can make, and part of our becoming as pastors is staying connected to people who can also pour in us as well, because we're still developing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We have not reached we have not reached it. If Paul says I don't claim to have reached it to have obtained it.
Speaker 2:We ain't there yet, my boy. We ain't there yet nothing. So yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and another thing I would say too is self-reflection. Like you have to ask yourself am I really doing the right thing? Am I really giving God my best? Am I spending time with Him? Like self-reflection? Man is a big, and when we study on Wednesday night, we take a time to really reflect on Scripture and I post questions that to make them reflect on themselves, to ask themselves and what am I learning in this situation? Or what have I learned in the past? And so self-reflection's big too. But this last one here is we get ready to wrap. How about personal transformation and discipleship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, as far as the personal side of discipleship for me is, what I'm finding is that discipleship and what God teaches you in that personal training and development is he's doing it for you, for your now, but also giving you wisdom for what he knows you will come against in the future. What I mean by that is what you study right now will show itself needed again in a few months for somebody else in the situation. And there's even times, Pastor Jason, where I study things and I'm like I don't see where this is needed now, but I just stick it in my pocket Absolutely and God reveals okay, I needed you to train for this three months ago because now is the time you need it. I think it's helping us develop to not only just transform our way of discipleship, because you think every time you go to the Word that you've got to have an aha moment. It doesn't. You don't open up the Bible and it goes oh, it's not like that. I don't know if somebody told you that, but it's not. Sometimes it's like I understand nothing right now.
Speaker 2:And so, as far as the personal transformation man, one thing that it's done for me is it's really created a love for the Word. Yeah, I used to not love the Word man, Just to be honest, I had to fall. I fell in love with Jesus, but I'm falling in love with His Word. I made a post earlier this past week that I've taught more than past years and I've ever taught, so I've used to be strictly a preacher, Like you're gonna get preached to. I realized that the more I teach, the greater love I have for the Word to be discipled and sharpened and equipped, and the Word will keep me a lot further than a shout will yeah, absolutely and sustain us, and so one of the things that I've experienced is that it's taught me to fall in love more with the Word, because it's the Word that changes our life the most.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think, if you truly love Jesus, jesus was the Word and the Word became flesh. Yep, I think you'll, if you truly love Jesus man, you'll truly love His Word.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I think but that happens. I can't tell you that it'll happen the moment you're saved. But I'll tell you that there's an old song that says sweeter every day with Jesus, the sweeter than the day before. And I think that as you grow in Jesus, you'll find an appreciation for His Word, man. And there are times where you're right. I will open the Word and I'm like okay, how many times have we gotten words about what India is going to be like before we go? Oh, yeah, Like you need to be steady and decide what you're at right, that's right and you show up.
Speaker 1:you ain't prepared and you fight face-in-dust demon and you're like I should have been studying on that before we got here. Now it's like come on, holy Spirit, show me what you need me to know what we need to do here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey help me.
Speaker 1:I don't know what we're supposed to be doing right. But no, look guys. I hope this encourages you spend time with God.
Speaker 2:Spend time with His.
Speaker 1:Word, spend time with Him. Look, we spend a ton of money on being built and prepared professionally. Look, it is more important that we are built and prepared spiritually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is?
Speaker 1:eternal, which is eternal right. I mean, you can go to the gym and get these guns right.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I'm doing my boy yeah but what are you doing spiritually?
Speaker 1:The muscles will fade, but that which you know you gain, spiritual, will last you for eternity. So anyway, hey look, we hope this blesses you. We can't wait to release it and get your feedback. Hope it bless you, hope it enjoys you. And so, before we send you off what we always do here, pastor to Pastors we wanna send you away with a priestly blessing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, that's number six and it says this may the Lord bless you and protect you. May the Lord smile on you, be embrugacious to you. May the Lord show you His favor and give you peace. Thank you so much for listening, share with someone, your leaders, your church members, and hope this blesses you. We'll see you right here next week for Pastor to Pastor hey, god bless you.
Speaker 1:We'll catch you next time. Copyright Wned telecom.