Discover how to amplify your message and lead with authenticity as Pastor to Pastor & Bishop TC Holmes shares his wisdom on the transformative power of communication in leadership and ministry. This episode promises to revolutionize the way you connect with your congregation, with Bishop Holmes unraveling the synergy between actions and words, and guiding us on how to resonate with people of varied communication styles. We delve into the art of embodying the principles you preach, ensuring that your life's authenticity enhances the message of faith you share. Recognizing the pitfalls of miscommunication from the pulpit, we discuss the vital role emotional intelligence plays in delivering your message effectively.
Bishop Holmes takes us on a journey through the importance of spreading love and uniting church members under a shared vision. We tackle the challenges many churches face in establishing a crystal-clear vision and how this impacts growth, unity, and financial stability. Listen in as we explore the power of preaching love to foster redemption, and the significance of aligning your congregation's understanding with the church's goals. The insight shared in this episode is not just for pastors and church leaders, but for anyone who seeks to lead with conviction, clarity, and a deeply resonant message that inspires action and harmony within their community.
Discover how to amplify your message and lead with authenticity as Pastor to Pastor & Bishop TC Holmes shares his wisdom on the transformative power of communication in leadership and ministry. This episode promises to revolutionize the way you connect with your congregation, with Bishop Holmes unraveling the synergy between actions and words, and guiding us on how to resonate with people of varied communication styles. We delve into the art of embodying the principles you preach, ensuring that your life's authenticity enhances the message of faith you share. Recognizing the pitfalls of miscommunication from the pulpit, we discuss the vital role emotional intelligence plays in delivering your message effectively.
Bishop Holmes takes us on a journey through the importance of spreading love and uniting church members under a shared vision. We tackle the challenges many churches face in establishing a crystal-clear vision and how this impacts growth, unity, and financial stability. Listen in as we explore the power of preaching love to foster redemption, and the significance of aligning your congregation's understanding with the church's goals. The insight shared in this episode is not just for pastors and church leaders, but for anyone who seeks to lead with conviction, clarity, and a deeply resonant message that inspires action and harmony within their community.
Hey, what's up family? Welcome back to pastor, the pastor podcast. We've got pastor Jason Watson right here. Hey, how's everybody doing? I'm pastor said, and we've got a great, great opportunity to hear from pastor TC Holmes.
Speaker 2:What's up? What's up.
Speaker 1:If you didn't get opportunity to listen to the previous podcast, please go back and listen. You're going to be you're just going to be blessed by all the information and share it with some leaders and other pastors, and this one's going to be just as good a pastor.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. We're looking forward to talking about the topic of effective communication and how important it really is, and you don't have to be in ministry very long, or in leadership very long, or in a relationship longer than a day, or married or married, to realize how important communication is, and how not just communication, but effective communication, how important communication is. And so, bishop TC, we want to hear, man, your thoughts and your taking your wisdom on effective communication. When it comes to leadership, we're going to take it back. Let's go ahead and start back and move forward. Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2:Communication is not defined by what you say, but how you say it. Right, and in order to be effective, you got to learn to speak the language. Everybody has a different language. Everybody's got a different sound barrier. You've got to honor and respect that. Not everybody communicates on the same level, right, and so, to be an effective servant leader, be effective pastor, you've got to get to know them, that labor among you to the point that you know how to speak to everyone.
Speaker 2:There are some things that I can say to my board because of their level of maturity that I cannot say to those who are novice in the faith. Yeah, right, there are some things that you and I we can talk to each other a specific way, but if we brought someone in that was not on our level, it would be offensive. Yeah, you know, tough conversations are held by tough people, but when you get ready to have that tough conversation with someone to say who is not at that level of maturity, then you don't. I'm not saying dumb it down, you just need to learn how to speak their language.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:Something else we talked about just to get into this is it's not so much verbatim. What we say is also how we live our lives before people, right? So everybody knows that person, we've all been around that individual or we have experienced firsthand guilty. I am where we preach one thing but we lived another. Don't throw the cross at me and condemn me, that's right. I'm just saying everybody's been there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Everybody's been there. You know you preach online, you preach on the seat, but then all of a sudden you go fishing. When somebody asked you how big the fish was, yeah, you want to say it was like that, but in the reality is, everybody stretches something at some point in their life and it may not be a lie, but it may not be something that's authentic, right, right.
Speaker 2:And so whenever you preach something that is authentic like the word of God, but your life does not reflect authenticity, yeah, okay, then you're not lining up with what you preach, and so you're sending mixed signals. People are confused because they don't understand. Is it what you said or is it how you lived? And so we went back and we agree that actions speak louder than words, and I believe you had said something a little bit about that. How that that speaks volumes.
Speaker 3:Absolutely it. And even outside of leadership and outside of relationship, like how you live out in the world, is super important If you consider yourself to be a Christian, a believer, are you? Are you, was that saying? How does it go? Like you, you may be the Bible, or people may never read the Bible, but they'll read your life, yeah. And so what are they seeing? Are they seeing the fruit of Christ in you? Are they seeing what Christianity supposed to look like? Are you still getting in those conversations that you aren't supposed to be in? Are you still doing things and partaking in things that you aren't supposed to do and partake in? So are we the example Whether it doesn't have to be verbal? Are we living out who we are? Just like I can't be a hypocrite from the pulpit and preach something that I'm not living, you can't be the clay or declaring something or claiming something that you're not living either.
Speaker 1:Y'all don't only be like those people that Paul's talking about, a Romans where it says, like you know, they're blaspheming God because you don't practice what you preach. Like you're a poor representative of Jesus Christ. And that's not just as I was talking about leadership, but just as a Christian like how are you representing Christ? Are your, are your actions really lining up with your words? That's so good.
Speaker 2:You see the actions. In itself, it speaks to leadership.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Everybody's a leader on some level. Yeah, if you're a single mom and you got three kids, you're a leader. Right, if you are working as a busboy, someone is working under you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You've been there, you've had leadership seniority over somebody. You're, they're following your example, and so I think it's. It's what makes this subject so broad is it covers more than just talking. Yeah, again, it's not what you say, but how you say it, right, right. So how do I communicate through my actions? How do I communicate through my emotions? Right, all right. So let's talk about that for a minute. How many pastors get behind the pulpit when they're frustrated and just go off and they find some scripture to validate what they're feeling? Right, right, poor communication. Yes, so you've got 500 people in your church, but there's four of them that's been plotting against you. So you get frustrated. You go home and you know of the of the 500, there's basically 500, no, 496 people that have no knowledge of what's going on between the four in you. Right, but you're going to build a message and let the whole church hold what you really want. Tell in private those four people. You want to tell it public, and now you got 496 people wondering what's wrong with him?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I see so mad. Yeah, where did that come from? And you've told 496 people something without telling them something. That's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've communicated poorly and so we can't allow our emotions to become the overall driving force behind our communication. Right, and I'm going to tell you something this is, this is a marriage killer. It's a marriage killer. So we talked about in the last session how that, when fatigue sets in, faith walks out. Right, that's when you're most emotional. Right, when you are tired. And, let's face it, it's no mystery, pastors are tired everywhere. Yeah, you guys came in here and you guys took a little nap here and a little nap there, and I'm not one. I can't do that. Yeah, if I get a power nap in, I'm going to get up, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
Speaker 1:I just cannot do, I'm better off, just powering through. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because when I lay down, brother, I'm done. I hear you. I'm not built like that, right? So I know where my strengths are, I know my weaknesses are and I also know that when I'm at, I'm not at my best. Now's not the best time to talk to me. I'll tell you something else. That hurts people. I'm not a big fan of it, but I feel like on like a Sunday morning, or especially on a Wednesday night, after you've delivered and you've poured out and the oil has lifted, when that anointing lifts off of you. Listen, that is not the time to have a meeting because you're not thinking straight, if you can think well enough to have a meeting after you ministered. You did not minister under the anointing. Yeah, come on, I'm telling you, because when that thing lifts, it's all you can do, man, just to stand up straight.
Speaker 2:I know it is with me, Because when you wring yourself out like a rag, God spills you like a drink offering. You don't have anything left. You're right? Yeah, that is the absolute worst time for you to have a meeting or communicate anything to anybody. And I am good at telling people hey, hey, hey, not now. This is not the best, You're not going to get the best of me.
Speaker 1:Yep, we have to do that before service. People want to come and bring you problems.
Speaker 2:Let's just wait, because I won't communicate.
Speaker 1:well, right now, my mind is not on this problem.
Speaker 2:You got Monday Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Wednesday.
Speaker 2:Thursday, friday, saturday. Call the office, call me whatever, and we'll solve it then, but I need focus.
Speaker 1:And that's wisdom. Wisdom knowing wins. The best time to communicate to where you can do it properly. It's wisdom in that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're right, because you don't want to get my leftovers, you want to get my best. Exactly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:So we've talked about how that. You know it's not just what we say, but how we say it, via our actions, our emotions. Ok, here's another one Favoritism there are cliques. We know that the pastor has the responsibility of making sure that the cliques don't click, so he has to maintain separatism from every entity by fulfilling and maintaining his role. If you really want to generate a house of unity, you must be unified. So the more unified you are with the words you minister, the more effective you're going to be at keeping unity in the house. All right, that's how you communicate that you don't have to address cliques. What you address is unity.
Speaker 2:It's unity, unity, unity, unity. Pick and choose your conversations wisely and communicate them effectively. You don't have to Now listen. When I say this, I'm not trying to take anything away from sin, but you really don't have to preach about sin. Preach about love, not the grace message that everybody gravitates to. Yeah, preach about love. Why? Because love is God's cure for sin, but preach about love in such a way you understand the price love had to pay, yeah, in order to redeem us from our sin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good, because whatever I give my attention to, I give, I empower and give permission to remain, and so I have. I have found, just in my limited experience in certain churches, those churches where the pastors make the biggest conversations out about sin, those are the churches that really struggle with sin. But those churches that have made their conversations out to be about the love, which covers a multitude of sin, those are the churches that are as authentic as you can possibly be. Those are the churches that have the mind of Christ, because they understand and value the love that was given so that they could be freed from their sin. Yeah, so they don't struggle with something like that. And it all goes back to communication. The health of your congregation is only going to equate to the health of your communication. Yeah, you can get up, spit and jump and hop and yell and scream and you do all of that, but that don't mean you're saying anything.
Speaker 1:I want to say something that you said that really speaks to. This is something, a model that we kind of use when it comes to communication, especially when you're going to correct something like you mentioned how you should talk about unity. Don't talk about the clicks, because really, what we tell our people when there's a problem, push them to vision. The vision is that I want us to be unified, and how do I deal with the problem is I push you to vision, to what the overall goal is, and so, as you learn, to focus not on the problem but where you want that problem to be resolved at is where we learn and people actually grow. From that They'll understand and see it. You get them to see why you're having this conversation and that's how we do a leadership. If you inspect, what you expect and what you see in an inspection is not what you like, you're allowing quarter to be created in your area and you've got to correct it. How do you correct it? Through vision and the way you communicate those things. That's just so good, man.
Speaker 2:It's a distraction for to generate the right attraction.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got to get your mind off of what's not valuable here. It's not that it's not important, but that's not the vision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Let me give you this attraction over here. That's right because this is where I want us to focus.
Speaker 3:Well, kind of like what you said when we were talking is you can't expect what you don't communicate Exactly. And so if you're not communicating the vision, then it's gonna be hard for them to understand what the vision is and to hit go in that direction. Let's talk about that for a minute, go ahead.
Speaker 2:How many churches today just given just what you would think operate apart from a vision? A lot operate apart from a vision. So, um, dr Sam Shan made a comment one time in a session that we sat down with him and he said um, if the governor of your state came to your congregation on any given Sunday, sat through your service and after the service you addressed him and welcomed him and he stood before you and said hey, this is why I've come. I've got a million dollars that I want to give, debt free, tax free, to this ministry. All it requires is that I'm able to pick, handpick five members and ask them one question, and the question is what is the vision of the church Right? Will he get the same response from five who get different responses? Because the outcome is going to decide whether or not you get the money.
Speaker 3:Well, I've stood in front of a room full of pastors before and talked about vision and asked them what's the vision of your church?
Speaker 3:and you see, crickets, deer and the headlight looks from not all of them, but from a lot. I would say 90% of them are just like and I'm like what is the vision of your church pastor? You know, and so you'd be amazed. I think the average person would be amazed that the lack of vision that people are operating under, Like we're not called to be elevation church and we're not called to be these, these other churches. We're called to be cross point church and what has God called cross point to be? That's important for the pastor to know and super important for the team to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to say this because I just want to clarify and make sure I put it to better.
Speaker 3:Go ahead.
Speaker 2:You can tell me that your vision is to win the lost at any cost.
Speaker 1:That's not your vision, that's your mission.
Speaker 2:That's the great commission, right? Okay? So now that we've got that said, what I want to know is why specifically did God plant you where you are?
Speaker 1:Right, that's your vision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's your vision. If you don't learn how to, either number one, obtain that from God, number two, communicate that effectively. What did the Bible instruct us concerning a lack of vision People?
Speaker 2:cast off restraints and run wild Right, and so now let's look at all these churches how they're running. I'm not condemning that, I'm just saying Pastors, your frustration could be resolved by simply communicating a vision. Vision lets me know whether or not I need to be here. It's fair to me, it's fair to you. I don't wanna waste your time, you don't wanna waste my time, and vision could be what leads me to the place I need to be Eventually, and so we need to do a better job of communicating.
Speaker 1:We do this every time before I preach, I introduce myself. My wife, my son and I tell the vision of the church and the why every Sunday. Because of that I want people to know, hey, this is what we're for, and if you're not for it, then you, it's okay if this is not for you, but this is our vision and here's how we operate with our calling and stuff. So it's so important. I mean, pastor Jason, we've had this conversation. People just don't know, they just think you just go to church and they say, yeah, you have pastors have no vision when they don't grow and why people aren't gravitated to them.
Speaker 2:Right, so anything that's not godly, it will not grow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, in order for it to take root as a godly thing, it's going to require a vision. Here's another reason. You got a lot of churches that are struggling financially, right. Well, there's no provision where there's no vision. You gotta have vision for provision, right?
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 2:Because where God guides, he provides right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, well, come on here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we understand that the communication it far exceeds just not what I say, but how I say. It Far exceeds my actions, my emotions, my communication concerning my reason behind my existence. And I just want to touch on one more because I think that'll be a plenty to get this started. The biggest thing is learning how to communicate effectively, to the point that people know you. They've got your spirit. Yeah, man, the thing that I love about Jonathan and David was that their spirits were knit together. Yeah, if you ever served alongside of somebody and served alongside them to the point, they could finish your sentence. A good marriage can do that Because it knows how to communicate. There's times that I'll get ready to say something, my wife will spit it out and I'm like I was about to say the same thing. You can't do that if you don't know how to communicate together. Can you imagine how phenomenal it will be if, when you got ready to open your word and give the people the scripture they told you before you?
Speaker 3:told them, it's the same principle.
Speaker 2:Do they know us well enough to not only follow us but, if necessary, at any given Sunday they could take the lead?
Speaker 3:I think it's a lot of the same way with God. I can't tell you how many times I've got up to preach and call this rascal here and I'm like, hey, man, this is what I'm feeling led to preach. He's like I'm using the same scripture today and I'm like I need you to quit drinking my Kool-Aid man, because where you being tapped into the vine, I think you'll find that a lot of times, god's speaking a lot of the same things to his people, and those who are tapped in are speaking a lot of the same thing as well, and so it's kind of that same thread. Your leadership shouldn't always have to be able to, shouldn't be required to ask you everything, but they should know what division is and they should know what direction to go with, sometimes without even communicating, because I just know them so well, I know this is where God's got his heart at All right.
Speaker 2:so Jesus makes this statement. He says my sheep know my voice and the stranger they will not follow. So if you have someone who comes into your church and you've been effectively communicating to your staff and your leadership and someone comes in with an effort to sow discord and they wanna create dissension in the body. Someone that hears them make a statement, Pastor said your staff oughta know you well enough to say my pastor, don't sound like that.
Speaker 3:That's good.
Speaker 2:And I've had enough conversation with him. He's communicated with me in such a way I'm gonna squash this right here. In fact, this don't even need to make it back to him. You're done, you're done, you're done.
Speaker 2:But we don't have that. People are more apt to believe a lie than the truth. But it still falls on us, the bears of burden, to communicate with people to a point that, no matter what's being said about you, they oughta know whether or not there's you, because my sheep know my voice. A shepherd should be known by his voice, and if God has given us stewardship, shepherdship over his flock, as just a voice, our voice oughta sound like his voice. So Eli has done such a phenomenal job communicating with Samuel. One night God says Samuel, samuel, Samuel gets up. He doesn't run to God, he runs to Eli. He said did you call me?
Speaker 1:Three times.
Speaker 2:Same rotation the third time. Eli says hey, next time, if you hear that, say hear my Lord, Because, listen, there are voices in your life that God has given oversight to you. Even when God speaks to you, Because that individual is so in tune with that voice, it oughta sound like the one that's been speaking to you on this side of heaven.
Speaker 1:That's kind of heavy.
Speaker 2:But that's what effective communication does. That's how I can call my brother up that I've spent quality time with, have had in-depth, intimate relationships with, and say hey, man, this is where God's leading me me too.
Speaker 1:Because that's what communication does You're?
Speaker 2:hearing from the same source.
Speaker 3:Yeah right skin, I think even effective communication within the home. My kids know you coming ask me. My response could be you ask your mama and vice versa, because we know that you need to be asking the other one. You need to make sure that it's okay with her before you make sure it's okay with you.
Speaker 2:I get offended when my kids ask me first, because they're basically saying you're the weakest link in this conversation.
Speaker 1:So we can break you quick.
Speaker 3:I'm like why don't you go? To the toughest one now because you'll give in on this. Well, because then when they come to you they can say well, mom said it was okay, and so yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, that's a fact. I know your mama.
Speaker 3:Your mama wouldn't go for that yeah, and she knows how what my response is gonna be. Typically many times before that they even ask, or before she even asks, like she already knows who I am and so but it's been years of communication. It's been years of now. I'm sure there are times where she wished that I would communicate more. Like I'm like, did you check the calendar? Or she'll come to me and be like, did you check the calendar? And I'm like I did not, but that's why I have you in Siri to help me stay on point.
Speaker 2:So let's be vulnerable for just a second and we can close with this if that's all right.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:As pastors, what's one form of communication that we have given ourselves to that we feel we could be better communicators at? You know what I'm saying? One thing that you wish you could excel in and I'll go first With me, it's the demonstration part of it. There's one thing that I pray every day, and the list of things that I pray, and it's to be effective. I wanna be effective. I don't wanna just be heard, I want people to see it in my life and then hear about it. So that's something you have to be intentional about, right? Yeah, and so I have prayed to be the kind of communicator that people can watch and learn from quicker than they can hear and learn from, because I feel like we got everybody saying all these other things out here. Everybody's saying something, but ain't a whole lot of people living anything, you're right.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, yeah. So whenever I close my Bible on Sunday mornings or whenever we conclude our service on Wednesday night, I want that to be the explanation behind what they have seen in my life. First, yeah, to me that's the supreme communication, and so that's one of the things that I aspire as a pastor or a leader on any scale, even with my kids. You know, my kids know when I ask them to pray, they don't front me on that, because they know in the morning, between five o'clock and seven 30, that's my time. I'm praying that time, and so my kids now don't ask did I pray? Did I pray? They ask me how was prayer given? It's a given. And so that was my first. But now this one, now that I've been in this role, yes, god, I want to be a better demonstrator. I want to be that facilitator of life so that when they watch me, they hear me. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:So what's one thing that you guys, communication wise, would like to see improve or just on a personal note, I would think mine is exactly what yours is and I was not taking the easier.
Speaker 3:That's the truth, truth I always want to be and I've said in my prayer clause that, lord, let me be behind the scenes who I am in front of the scenes not that I'm not, but just that I want to remain my heart, to be pure and be connected to God and I really want to be. I hold, I hold, I allow scripture and allow God to hold me accountable. And I have my circle, I have my table of people who you know I feel vulnerable with, I can share with you know sets one of them that I can, I can have a conversation with and be completely honest, and I will receive correction and give correction. And so you know I would say the same thing. I definitely want to be always in public what I preach about, and always in public what I, what I, what I am in private, like I want to be that. Or I want to be in private who I am in public, like that's that's. That's always my goal, that's always been my goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say, I've got it all together, you know yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:No just kidding, you are no where you guys, where you guys are saying I could definitely testify that that's my heart's desire. But just to kind of change up the thought, I think, just as a pastor speaking, I think one of the things I've been working on is the communication with all age groups. When you articulate the message God's given you, will it also reach the 20 year old the way that it reaches the 60 year old in the congregation? And so my, my messages are starting to change, because our congregation is always changing and filtering with certain people and ages, and I want to be able to communicate the gospel in a way that everybody gets something and hits everybody.
Speaker 1:It's why, when I do sermon prep, oftentimes I ask my wife what do you get from this passage? You're a 30 year old female. What does a 30 year old female get from this? And a lot of those things. It'll always make it into sermon, but it gives you insight on how people think. So you can articulate the gospel and communicate it the way that's impactful for people's lives, and so I'm trying my best to do that. The way I communicate, that way I can be effective not just to a certain demographic but all that come apart and be a part of our church, so that's what I'm working on.
Speaker 3:I like it. I think you just got saved. Hallelujah yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm putting myself on my own report.
Speaker 3:You're going to get my report. One of us was going to get it. Pastor to pastor one salvation, yeah.
Speaker 1:Hey, this is are y'all good? If we're not good, brother, I'm good.
Speaker 2:You're good. This is I. It's been a joy, man. I I'd love to come back, do it again. Yeah, absolutely, we don't have to be on camera either. I just liked the camaraderie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Yeah, Same here. It's good. Well, certainly we'll. We'll definitely try to get it again Again. There's some some time.
Speaker 1:This, this season will be definitely be great, hey thank you, guys, so much for listening and share it with someone you know this could be an encouragement to thank you for taking the time to do that. We want to bless you before we send you on your way. This is numbers chapter six versus 24 through 26. This is called the priestly blessing. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift you up, lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace. That's our prayer for you. Thank you, have a great, fantastic week. We'll see you right here next week on pastor to pastor. See you later.
Speaker 2:Later.