Hope and Redemption: Confronting Suicide with Divine Love and Community Support

Have you ever stood at the edge of despair, feeling as though the world had turned its back on you? Pastor Jason and Pastor Seth Odom understand that pain, and in our latest episode, they bring a message of hope and grace that could very well be the lifeline someone out there desperately needs. Addressing the heartbreaking issue of suicide with sensitivity and a steadfast belief in redemption, this conversation is a beacon of light, shining on the worth and purpose each of us holds in God's eyes. We tackle the weighty questions about life's value, uncovering the deception behind suicidal thoughts and offering a compassionate hand with resources like the National Suicide Prevention Line and 988 emergency number.

Feeling invisible in a crowded room can be a harrowing experience, but imagine discovering a profound sense of belonging through a simple act of divine love. Our episode embarks on such a personal journey, walking you through narratives of transformation that span from the bustling streets of India to the intimate spaces of our local communities. Pastor Seth shares how a pivotal moment of feeling seen changed everything, highlighting the critical role of reaching out and providing support to those wrestling with the darkest of thoughts. Listen and be encouraged by stories of how faith and listening to the Holy Spirit can lead to offering support that saves lives.

Judas Iscariot's story has perplexed believers for centuries, and today we delve into the complexities of his fate as a cautionary reminder of the importance of spiritual authenticity. This episode doesn't shy away from scrutinizing the harder truths, urging leaders to be vigilant of the hearts in their flock. Wrapping up, we underscore the significance of connecting through prayer and the strength found in community. This is more than just a conversation; it's an invitation to join hands in prayer and support, shattering the myth that seeking help is a burden. Share this episode with someone in need of hope; it might just be the lifeline they've been searching for.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hey, it is time for another. Pastor to Pastor. As always, I got my friend my good friend. All right now. Pastor Seth Odom from Reliant Church Say something to him.

Speaker 2: 0:18

Pastor. What's up family? Good to have y'all on here today taking a listen to what we got to say.

Speaker 1: 0:23

For sure, for sure, hey, and also I'm Pastor Jason from Crosspoint here and we're both in North Carolina, so we're excited and glad, so thankful that you guys have taken a moment to tune in. We've got a very interesting, a very I just should say interesting topic this morning. The topic of suicide Is it will you go to hell, will you go to heaven? I mean, what's that answer? We're going to kind of dig into some of that this morning because it's been a very interesting topic and it's something I'm sure that, as a pastor, you've heard a few times. I know I've heard it as a few times, and so let's just kind of talk about it. First of all, I feel like it's super important that we say this If you are listening to this podcast with the intent that I just want to know if I'm going to hell or not.

Speaker 2: 1:10

Like permission to do it.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Right, absolutely. This is not permission to do that, right? In fact, we were talking about this before we went to recording and I'm just like you know my heart breaks for people who feel like that is the only recourse, that is the only course that they have to go down. Listen, I don't care. The enemy's job is to steal, kill and destroy, and I'm telling you right now that if you feel like the only way out is suicide is ending your life, I'm telling you now that you are listening to the lies of the enemy and you are loved and you are cared about and you are cherished. Hey, god thinks a lot about you because he thought you were enough to die for right.

Speaker 1: 1:46

So understand this. Know that you absolutely have purpose. God has a plan. And look, reach out. We're easy to find on social media. If you feel like that's the only option that you have, look reach out to us. I promise you it won't fall on deaf ears. We will absolutely have a conversation with you, try to connect with you and help and encourage you, and I think there's. Is there a hotline or something? Yep absolutely.

Speaker 2: 2:09

There's a couple of ways that you can reach out and get help. If you don't have anybody close to you that you feel confident enough, whether it's because you feel judged or you just don't feel like somebody can help you, they have a National Suicide Prevention Line and that number is 800-273-8255. Or you can text the word TALK T-A-L-K to 741741. And if that's just too complicated for you, Pastor Dave, they've made it super simple because this is such a huge problem in America, really all over the world, you can call 988. Just it, Just 988?

Speaker 1: 2:44

988. Just it Just 988?

Speaker 2: 2:45

988. Not 911. This is an extreme emergency, but you can call 988 and get professional help for depression and suicidal thoughts and stuff like that. So it's important that if that's where you are in life, there's no judgment. We all walk through different parts and different avenues and different problems and those are just some ways to get you some help, Because we know this, there is hope Amen.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Amen, there is hope. As long as you got life, there is hope.

Speaker 2: 3:14

That's right.

Speaker 1: 3:14

And the Lord will certainly be that for you.

Speaker 2: 3:16

I love to tell our people that if you still got air in your lungs, god still got something for you, that's right. Come on, somebody, lift your hands. God's still got something for you, that's right. Come on, somebody, lift your hands. Hallelujah, my spirit fingers here, yeah, spirit fingers, yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:27

So let's talk about it a little bit. Man, let's dive into the subject. I know this is actually something that you have experienced, the depression that leads to that, but let's talk about it for just a moment. Sin is sin, right.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Yeah, you know a lot of people, a lot of religious people really. They get in this mindset. We talked about it a little bit with, where you know, the very traditional mindset of these things, where I think we've just been taught but we never studied Right and, you know, kind of really took a good depth in what the scriptures say and stuff like that and really determined our own understanding of this. We always think, think we've always heard that sin is sin, that no matter how big or however small, if you sin, that's unrepented for you're going straight to hell.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Um, and that really just is a really a throat punch at what jesus did for us on the cross, you know a throat punch, yeah, a throat punch, good yeah it's like, it's like punching him right there in the side where he was pierced at you know, okay, playing with a little hole in his face.

Speaker 1: 4:30

Don't do that, don't do that you know, it's like.

Speaker 2: 4:32

it's like we we just disengage with this concept of grace. Now let me just say this we're not talking about hyper grace. We're not talking about overusing grace. We're talking about grace for the christian. That's why the Bible says the righteous fall but they get back up, why they fall on his grace. But I love that he says the righteous person. He's not saying the sinner, he's saying the righteous person. When they fall, they get back up because they understand they're falling on the grace of God and he can help them get back on the right path.

Speaker 2: 5:00

A long side of that, too, is when you talk about the scriptures that talk about blessed are those who mourn, you know, for they shall be comforted. He's talking about sin. When you mourn sin, you will be comforted by the Father because there's grace for you. Right. And when we talk about sin being sin, we talk about the concept of suicide being a sin. Yeah, it may be a sin, but if you belong to Christ, and this is the time where you fall, there's grace for you. We're not talking about people who are habitually sinning. They know you by the fruit, they know you by the lifestyle, and there's grace in areas of sin in our lives, because we're not perfect. We still have the flesh, and so I just want to let us all know. All this listening is that there is a way to make it to heaven. If you commit suicide to the christian um, now, we don't encourage it at all we started off saying that we don't encourage this, this concept.

Speaker 2: 5:56

Um, I'd like to share a story. Yeah, please do. Um, I've experienced suicide thoughts and depression to the point to where I sent a very long text. This is back. Some people might not even know this. This is back in like 06, 07, you know what I'm saying when the four chain text was a big deal. You know, forward this to all your friends. And so I created a text, and I actually I guess I wrote it so well that people thought it was a chain message and they started sending it to other friends and stuff, and so I was in this parking lot and I was just depressed. I mean, I felt like my friends were just using me. I was the only one that ever spent money, only one that ever drove around, only one that ever did all the heavy lifting for the friendships. I felt like I was putting all my efforts in and getting nothing in return. So I always felt, though, even though I was crowded around people, I felt lonely. I don't know if you've ever felt that way.

Speaker 2: 6:51

Oh yeah, you're in a full room, but you still feel like you're by yourself. Right, that was me. I felt empty, I felt broken, I felt depressed, I felt like I was being used and nobody loved me. So I sent this text out, which we know is just a lifeline. I'm trying to throw that someone would actually care. And it was even worse that nobody cared. They actually just thought it was a regular text and I've already made a decision. I know what I'm about to do and I get a phone call from my grandma. Now, I don't know about you, jay, but when grandma calls, you pick up the phone because she might have something to eat yeah, she might have something for you.

Speaker 2: 7:25

You know, I have a little gift for you yeah, so I call, I know I got something for you, baby, come on over here.

Speaker 2: 7:32

and so I pick up the phone and she asked me to come over now. This is probably about nine o'clock at night. So I drive over to laura hill I'm in larnberg, drive over to laura hill, next town over, and, um, I go to her house and my parents are already there. She's called my parents and they're over there and I'm like what is happening? Yeah, so they're in the back bedroom and I walk in there and my grandma has a chair for me and I sit down and she says this. She says, seth, the Lord told me what you were getting ready to do tonight. Wow, now I don't know where you stand with the power of the Holy Spirit, but let this be proof that he's working. He's in our midst and he knows who we are.

Speaker 2: 8:10

And my grandmother said I know what the Lord told me, what you were going to do tonight. And I just want to let you know that you're not alone, you're loved. There's purpose in your life. My parents didn't even know why they were over there until I showed up. My grandma didn't reveal it to them, and it was just this intervention moment where I found out how much Jesus loved me. You know, if I would have took my life, you know, pastor Jason, the fruit that's happened because of just that one moment of the Lord just expressing his love through other people to me, realizing that when I didn't feel like I didn't have purpose, he revealed it through somebody else.

Speaker 2: 8:48

And you know, we've went to India. We've seen miracles. We've seen salvations, hundreds of salvations, miracles, deliverances. We're pastoring churches. Now I'm pastoring a church and I got to thinking over all the fruit, just as this conversation has kind of developed, is all the fruit that I've seen, just from a moment of realizing Christ loved me. And you know, even though I was, my grandmother said, there's a purpose on your life, and even though I knew there was purpose, one of the greatest things that I found out was the purpose I had was to be a son. And when you come to the knowledge that you're a son and a daughter of Jesus Jesus he loves you, no matter how rough life gets, there's hope. There's hope in that and man, that that was my real revelation of Christ, of how much he loved, how much we cared. And I don't know if there's people listening, or you know someone who is struggling with suicide and these thoughts and depression. Uh, there's purpose for them.

Speaker 1: 9:44

Absolutely Christ loves them. And here's something I thought about. You may not even remember this, but I remember we came back from India and we ended up going to a church in Fayetteville and we were kind of sharing our testimony, kind of sharing what all took place, and I can't remember the name of the church Destiny Now.

Speaker 1: 10:00

Destiny. Now, and on the way to the service, I just felt like Holy Spirit just said that somebody there today is going to be dealing with depression and thoughts of suicide and I don't know if you remember or not, but toward the end, like that's what I talked about. And man after service, this woman came up and said, like that, who you were talking about was me. Thank you so much, like out of a room of 200 or 300 people, that one person that God would give me that word for that one person and that they would come up and now feel loved and feel like a daughter because of taking that single moment to say, hey, god sees you, god knows you, look, don't do it. And that's my encouragement for anybody.

Speaker 1: 10:40

Yeah, yeah, and it's really kind of a lot like what you're talking about, how you felt like god sees me. That's how she felt afterwards. She's like man for out of all these people. For that, one word to come forth just for me yeah, encouraged her enough to know that god sees her and you may be listening and you're not.

Speaker 2: 10:55

You know you're not dealing with depression, you're not dealing for suicide. Let this be some, some sharpening tools for you. Hey, listen, if the lord's encouraging you to go to somebody like you could be the lifeline that god is sending to somebody to have that conversation to encourage them. I remember when I was in goldsboro, pastor jay and I was a kid ministry, um, a kid pastor and um we were all. We were very structural. We had um curriculums out and stuff and on the way to the church the Lord was like throw that out, you're going to deal with this. It says there's kids in your room who want to commit suicide and they're depressed.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Now I'm talking about first to fifth graders, wow, okay. So I get my team together and I'm like hey, I want you to know I've prepared. I'm not throwing this together, but you just got to go with me. Today Everything's going to change. We need to go ahead and start interceding now for these kids.

Speaker 1: 11:51

I know they're young.

Speaker 2: 11:57

They're 8, 9, 10, 11-year-olds, but the Lord has already acknowledged that. So there was probably 40 kids in the room and man, 12 of them, them, 12 of these little kids had suicidal thoughts at that young age. Wow, that's crazy, and I just want to encourage you that, no, don't, just don't, overlook what the lord is giving you to give somebody. You could, in fact, be the one lifeline that they're waiting on for them to find purpose and hope through you and Jesus. So be encouraged.

Speaker 1: 12:24

You can be the hands and feet of Jesus to pull somebody out of that. If we're taking time to slow down and listen and watch people, that's what I think we miss a lot of it and that's where God's really for me. This year that word intentional has been just kind of shouted over and over again. Be intentional in everything that we do, like slow down, pay attention, be intentional in the moment and what you're doing, and because you'll be amazed at what you'll see on people's faces, even when they try to hide it. Yep, and if you'll listen and allow the holy spirit to speak to you, they will absolutely guide you in the right direction to be able to help somebody in need yeah, as we were preparing for this podcast, I saw uh where, um, on how how to notice when someone is you.

Speaker 2: 13:03

you know they're trending downward Right, and it is exactly what you're talking about. One of the things they say is just pay attention to people. You see all the time, like see how their demeanor changes and as pastors, like just this Sunday, I could tell when someone was acting different on a.

Speaker 2: 13:18

Sunday and it's like all right, let me point you to the side. Let's make sure life is fine, but it's not just a Sunday thing, it's not just a ministry thing. It's those in your family, those that you're connected to, those that you see. Let's start taking responsibility that Christ has given us.

Speaker 1: 13:34

We're him here on earth and let's take that role and that step as a son and a daughter and start helping those that we see that need it Absolutely and be intentional in your prayer life Like hey, God, show me, Give me like, make it apparent, Show me the ones who are in need, who need someone to talk to, who I need to be the hands and feet of.

Speaker 2: 13:53

That's right, and so, as you're helping others, for those that are struggling with this, as we said at the very beginning, there's hope and, uh, you know we've been doing a little bit of talking here. Yeah, I got a little. Well, hold on one second.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Hold on one second uh, you know I was thinking about this and it's something we talked about. Um, you know someone's life. There have been pastors who have just felt the burden of ministry and, right, wrong or indifferent, have have committed suicide. I mean it is. It is not something that that someone's untouchable through. Um, you may be in on the mountaintop right now, but eventually, eventually, through life's rollercoaster, you're going to find yourself in a valley.

Speaker 2: 14:29

Yep.

Speaker 1: 14:29

And so you think about those who would go out here and drive while drunk or making poor decisions in a moment that would possibly end their life, but that's not— that's not the defining moment of their life. So, yeah, absolutely, sin is sin, and I'm one of those. But you're right, we got some scripture and I'm going to get old Pastor Geno Jennings to get us back on track.

Speaker 2: 14:56

All right, here we go. What is it? Come on back to Bible, take it back to the Bible.

Speaker 1: 15:02

One more, here we go. Come on back to Bible. Yeah, we got to get it back to Bible. Take it One more, here we go, come on back to Bible. Yeah, we got to get it back to Bible. What the Bible say, tell them what the Bible say.

Speaker 2: 15:10

Listen, I just want to encourage you with Scripture because we could talk all of this and it'd be opinion at base.

Speaker 2: 15:16

but when we look at Scripture and just how the Lord is close and what the Lord says about those who are struggling, the Bible even says this he's present in the time of trouble. But Psalms 34, 18 through 19,. What's crazy is, two Sundays ago this scripture came in the middle of our worship and I expressed this with some of our church who was really struggling. Psalms 34, 18 through 19 says the Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. The righteous person may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all. And you know when we talk about when you go to heaven or when you go to hell, if you commit suicide.

Speaker 2: 15:57

To the Christian, to the active Christian, the person who is actively pursuing Christ, you know we all fall, the righteous fall, we talked about it. To the active Christian, there is hope, right, that if for some reason this happens to you, that you could see Jesus and make it to heaven. But for the habitual sinner, for the one who's never received Christ, we can't say that, right, we can't say that. But Scripture alludes, pastor Jason, that if you'll turn to the Father with all of these emotions and the depression and the worry and the anxiety and all the things that you struggle with. If you'll turn to Him, he will deliver you from all of these things. You've got to know who to turn to. Okay, turn to the Father.

Speaker 1: 16:40

But what about the thought of and I'm just playing the opposite here what about the thought and I've had this right, I mean these thoughts of well, you can't repent if you've committed suicide. What would you say about that?

Speaker 2: 16:54

Well, I think that puts we have grace in the concept of this. But salvation is not conditional. It's not conditional salvation. Salvation is given to us and we produce fruit based off of that salvation. You know, once saved, always saved is not the topic here today. But let me just say this and clear the air If you live a life that does not produce fruit of someone who follows or belongs to Christ, you were never saved. A saved person produces fruit that testifies I belong to the Father.

Speaker 1: 17:27

So what about Judas the traitor?

Speaker 2: 17:29

So let's talk about it. Then you want to talk about?

Speaker 1: 17:32

it. Let's talk about Judas.

Speaker 2: 17:33

Well, let's just see what the Scripture says about Judas.

Speaker 1: 17:36

And what's interesting about him is, after he betrays Jesus, all the disciples every time they name him, they upset. They add a little something like Judas the traitor, the betrayer. You know what I mean. That's right. Anyway, they were upset with him.

Speaker 2: 17:49

First off, jesus says my betrayer is here and the devil is in him. Right, he is the devil. Okay, it's hard to have Christ. You can't have two entities in you. So let's look at Matthew 26, 24. It says the son of man will go. Just as it is written about him, it means he's going to go to the cross to be crucified. But woe to the man who betrays the son of man, which was who? Judas, judas. It would be better for him if he had not been born. So if Judas goes to heaven, that's better than being born.

Speaker 2: 18:22

That's way better than being born, right, you know so. If where he's going is worse than being born, that's way better than being born, right, you know so. If where he's going is worse than being, I mean it's pretty clear where he's going, pretty I mean, I don't know how it's this scripture where it's like okay, we don't really have to elaborate on it judas, judas. Uh, I don't believe judas was ever saved, if I'm honest with you, based off of the way he lived consistently stealing from ministry, consistently calling worship waste.

Speaker 1: 18:51

Yeah, the girl who poured oil on Jesus.

Speaker 2: 18:53

I don't think he is a true example of what it looks like to know Jesus, to know about him but never know who he is on a personal level. I mean, he sees miracles of three years and all these things, but he never changed as a person and he never produced fruit of it.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Yeah, and let this be a blessing moment for leaders to know that not everybody in your flock or not everybody in your span of influence is going to follow and is going to truly believe what they say they believe.

Speaker 2: 19:21

Yeah, Jesus had them.

Speaker 1: 19:23

Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2: 19:25

He was close, close, close, close, close, hallelujah. Yeah, I mean, he was close, close, close, close, close, yeah, hallelujah, Come on somebody, so you got it. Now, he didn't make it, bro, he didn't. I can't look at scripture and determine that he's made it. He has not made it. No, absolutely. I just want to say this before we wrap this thing up is when you talk about getting help. I want you know your circle matters Absolutely, who you have speaking to you, who you have encouraging you and who you have speaking over your life matters.

Speaker 2: 19:49

Right, so make sure you get that circle corrected and just a reminder.

Speaker 1: 19:52

The enemy's job is to separate, is to steal, kill and destroy.

Speaker 1: 19:56

That's right and you've got to realize that when you're under attack spiritually and you've got to realize what God calls to do, like God gave us the church as a body of believers to come together to help, to encourage, to expand the kingdom, to do all these different things and being a part of that. But you are a part of that body. I don't care, you may not go sit in a service every single Sunday, but if you are a true believer and you're following Jesus, you are a part of the body and know that I'm always here. Pastor Seth's always here. These numbers we're provided are always here to help you if you find yourself in the midst of a struggle. But know this, here's my warning, because I'm telling you I'm very, very careful and very intentional in what I say. I never want anyone to be able to be like, well, pastor Jason or Pastor Seth said it's okay, I'm probably still going to heaven. Let me tell you this God is the judge.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Take that heart we.

Speaker 1: 20:43

God is the judge. Take that heart. We can only go based on what we have in Scripture and what we've been given, what God's given us.

Speaker 2: 20:51

It's a matter of the heart too.

Speaker 1: 20:52

It's a matter of the heart, absolutely, and so I encourage you don't go that way, don't chance it, don't risk it, don't play those games. You feel depressed, you're feeling defeated. The last thing that you want to do is connect with somebody, but that is the first thing you need to do.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yeah, that's right you need to pray, you need to see God's face and you need to connect with people who can pour into you and encourage you and uplift you. Don't feel like well, and sometimes you'll hear this well, I just don't want to be a burden to anybody. That's right. That is the enemy speaking to you and you believe in a lie. That's right. You're not a burden. Find somebody. Find somebody. Don't go down that road.

Speaker 2: 21:28

Yep, amen, that's right.

Speaker 1: 21:30

But anyway, hey brother, you want to bless them as we close out here.

Speaker 2: 21:32

Yeah, we're going to go back to the Bible. Come on back to the Bible.

Speaker 1: 21:37

There you go.

Speaker 2: 21:39

Pastor Jay loves his little buttons. Yeah, go ahead, we're going to give you this priestly blessing. May the Lord bless you and protect you. May the Lord smile on you and be gracious to you. May the Lord show you his favor and give you his peace. Thank you so much for being with us today. Share, like comment. Give this to somebody who you know is having a hard time.

Speaker 1: 22:02

Absolutely Go be the hands and