As we witness the ebb and flow of our congregations, Seth and I, Pastors Jason Watson, find ourselves at the intersection of celebration and solemn reflection. Our churches are blossoming with new members, even as the reverberations of our children's laughter cross from baseball fields to university campuses. Yet beneath the surface, there's a tremor we can't ignore - the encroaching tide of a diluted gospel, sugar-coated and served with a side of prosperity, straying from the unyielding truth we've vowed to uphold.
Confronting this reality, we engage in a candid conversation about the present malaise within Christianity, where the discomfort of spiritual accountability is all too often swapped for a feel-good message. The confusion around "once saved, always saved" surfaces as we underscore the imperative of living a faith that bears witness through action, not merely words. This discourse is a heartfelt plea for church leaders and the faithful: let us not be seduced by numerical growth at the expense of the Gospel's power - a power that calls for transformation, not mere affirmation.
In the closing act of our dialogue, the recent men's conference acts as a prism, reflecting the complexities of church entertainment, forgiveness, and the humility required of those who lead. As we draw from the events involving Mark Driscoll and a performer's controversial past, we are reminded that leadership is as much about grace as it is about guidance. And with a final look upon the ancient blessing from Numbers 6:24-26, we part with a benediction that echoes our longing for the divine touch upon your lives. Until we meet again on Pastor to Pastor, may your journey be marked by His favor and peace.
As we witness the ebb and flow of our congregations, Seth and I, Pastors Jason Watson, find ourselves at the intersection of celebration and solemn reflection. Our churches are blossoming with new members, even as the reverberations of our children's laughter cross from baseball fields to university campuses. Yet beneath the surface, there's a tremor we can't ignore - the encroaching tide of a diluted gospel, sugar-coated and served with a side of prosperity, straying from the unyielding truth we've vowed to uphold.
Confronting this reality, we engage in a candid conversation about the present malaise within Christianity, where the discomfort of spiritual accountability is all too often swapped for a feel-good message. The confusion around "once saved, always saved" surfaces as we underscore the imperative of living a faith that bears witness through action, not merely words. This discourse is a heartfelt plea for church leaders and the faithful: let us not be seduced by numerical growth at the expense of the Gospel's power - a power that calls for transformation, not mere affirmation.
In the closing act of our dialogue, the recent men's conference acts as a prism, reflecting the complexities of church entertainment, forgiveness, and the humility required of those who lead. As we draw from the events involving Mark Driscoll and a performer's controversial past, we are reminded that leadership is as much about grace as it is about guidance. And with a final look upon the ancient blessing from Numbers 6:24-26, we part with a benediction that echoes our longing for the divine touch upon your lives. Until we meet again on Pastor to Pastor, may your journey be marked by His favor and peace.
Hey, what's up, family? We're back with another episode of Pastor to Pastor. I'm Pastor Seth. I've got across from me the man with the plan known as. Pastor Jay Watson. What's up my boy? What's happening, man? How are you? Ain't nothing to it, man, I'm just happy to be here with you. You know, in greatness, right in front of me, that beard. Yeah, yeah, touch it, touch it.
Speaker 2:Get the beard, you know, all fluffed up.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm talking about Get my line mane ready. Come on somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's happening with you, man?
Speaker 1:Ain't nothing to it, man. Hey, let's just take a. We've been growing. Since January We've added about 20 people to our church. God's doing some amazing things. As far as my family Levi's playing baseball, man, I have never been so busy in my life. I mean two games a night. We got two circles, which is our discipleship. A week, two nights a week, we're at baseball, we're just cooking it, man, we're cooking it. How's life your way?
Speaker 2:It's great man. It's great, just busy, but blessed is how I would I typically tend to describe my life. We absolutely bless.
Speaker 1:Well, we know you don't rest. We dealt with that in the podcast. We talked about that one. We know you're busy because you ain't resting man, I'll tell you what Don't you wish you would have rested. Now look at you. You look weary in your soul, my boy. No, it's because I'm sick.
Speaker 2:Here's the funny thing, man. I was thinking about this afterward. We were talking to somebody and I'm actually hoping we can bring him on the air soon, but a guy named Brian. Take your time. Man as soon as I.
Speaker 1:Well, your brain just be disappearing, Troy.
Speaker 2:It's just right in the middle. Just right in the middle.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to call him Brian. His name's Brian, brian, doug, yeah yeah, we've been talking.
Speaker 2:We've actually talked about the topic we're talking about today, but I was telling him, and he said man, you got to get on this rest thing. I'm telling you like it's important, it's biblical, it's good for you. And I said I hear you, man, and I'll tell you. What, though, and what I said to him was I've noticed is that the older I get, the less I want to rest, but the more my body tells me I have to rest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. And so I don't know out. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:That's exactly why just need some more rest that's right but no man, the family is doing great. Uh, we went up and checked out liberty university that's where colby's going in the fall man, beautiful campus, bro. And we walked around and I was like, by the time we left, I was ready to sign up for class. I mean, it was a beautiful campus, beautiful place, excited about what he's going to be doing up there. Um, he's locking in classes and stuff now and here at the church. Man, we've been growing too. I mean we've definitely been growing and we finished the upstairs project and now we're getting ready to launch the parking lot project. Try to get the parking lot paved. I mean there's a lot going on between sick people and injuries and visiting people and it's a lot, but we are busy, but blessed, that's about the only way I can put it.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we're actually talking about how much the church is growing. That's probably because you're giving them sugar to get them in the door. Oh, we're going to talk about it today.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, today we're going to talk about the state of the church. Right, we talked about this, we kind of started out with the American church, but truth is, this whole prosperity, this whole sugar-coated gospel thing, is reaching well beyond the American shore. Man, there's churches. I've seen videos of churches in Africa and where these missionaries go, they're carrying this. I'm going to be honest with you this is nonsense.
Speaker 2:They're carrying this nonsense. Gospel out here, this watered-down, weak, sugar-coated whatever you want to put in there. Gospel to other shores, man. And it is blowing my mind, it gets me so—I get passionate, bro, when it comes to this topic, because between hyper-grace where everybody's saved they just don't know it to this whole—we've made it more about man than we have. God. Yeah, that's right, and we are. We are doing a disservice to the gospel. But, man, I don't want to steal the, I don't want to do all the talking here man tell me tell me a little bit about what you're thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah I love what you're saying, man. We're just spoon feeding everybody, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know we should be being the salt, but we are being the sugar and we're seeing the results of it in the american church and I just, and the churches were, as an all right because we're, because it started in the american church and now we've taken this theology and now we've taken it all across the world and this is why I get 15 messages from from pakistan and africa, wanting money, because they, you know, it's all about money, money, money. It's like, you know, come preach prosperity here. Anyway, I'm going to give you some statistics and then we'll just kick off this conversation. When it comes to the state of the the state of the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the state of the church.
Speaker 1:Fifty-seven percent do not attend in-person or online services. That number is crazy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Crazy and I would imagine that's just attendance. But what about those who actually attend? And look, I don't care if you go to a church building or what the deal is, but attending some kind of a home church having some kind of a fellowship. That number is probably even lower for people who even just do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's right. So when it comes to the Christian adults okay, we're talking about Christian adults About 25% of Christian adults believe the Bible is the actual word of God. 58% believe it's the inspired word of God and this is the kicker right here 16%, again, christian adults believe that the Bible is a book of fables. That's wild. How does that even make sense, you know, when they say the math ain't mathin' right?
Speaker 1:Those words just don't make no sense to me and I read a quote where I found these statistics and the quote said this, from a guy named Scott. He's one of the guys that goes and interviews churches and does all the statistics. He says the younger generation just doesn't feel like they're being accepted in a church environment or some of their choices aren't being accepted. Now I love this quote, but the problem is we're reading this quote and we're seeing the opposite in churches today, because they're figuring out okay, what we're doing holding the standard of the word up is now pushing people away. So what we do now we're lowering the standard in order to get those young people to come to church, and now there's no standard in the churches at all.
Speaker 2:Look, I said this a couple of actually this topic. I was preaching on salt and light. We're going through the. We're preaching. I'm preaching now, we're going through the whole and this probably carries throughout the whole summer. We're just going through Matthew 5 through 7, jesus' Sermon on the Mountain and his big sermon and so we are breaking that down on Wednesday nights and Sunday mornings.
Speaker 2:So just a couple weeks ago we were talking about salt and light and I said you know, we are called to be the salt of the earth. Now salt does a few different things. Salt lifts the flavor out of something that it touches, so it brightens, it brings life, it brings flavor to what it touches.
Speaker 2:And then another thing that it does is it penetrates meaning that it preserves, so it prevents decay, and so that's who we're called to be. We're called to be salt, and that makes us light. We're called to be light, but the problem is the church as a whole has stopped preserving with salt and started preserving with sugar. Yep, and you know how it is. We've talked about this before. If you feed people sugar to get them in the door, you have to keep feeding them sugar to keep them there.
Speaker 1:And sugar creates decay.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing there and sugar creates decay, absolutely. Here's the thing. Uh, jesus is sweet enough, I don't have to make the gospel. It gets the sweeter, yeah, as the days go, go ahead and go, look I ain't got a button over here for you right but no, it's um.
Speaker 2:We don't have to sugarcoat the gospel jesus is sweet enough right but that's, that's not what we're doing anymore. Man, I don't want to say me or you, I know we're preaching that thing.
Speaker 1:They get in Scripture Toes and hands. Hold on, hold on.
Speaker 2:We're taking them. Come on back to Bible. Back to Bible. Yeah, we're taking them to the Bible. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:We're taking them to the Bible, right? There's a lot of people who aren't man and it's sad, bro. It raises up in me a righteous indignation. I get upset when I hear the nonsense that's being preached, being taught by these so-called pastors. I said this a few Sundays ago when I was preaching on Salt and Light. I said that the church we are seeing the falling away happen and it has nothing to do with the numbers in the church, it has everything. It's packed full of people going to hell.
Speaker 1:That's right. We're lowering the standard to grow churches and grow funding, and now we're sending a whole church to hell. Why? Because we are diluting truth to accommodate feelings.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I read a quote the other day as I was preparing for another message, and it was man. I had to share it because it was so good. It said anything above Scripture is legalism and anything below it is liberalism, and straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and I don't care what people say, that is absolutely a Scripture on heaven and hell, I don't care how you can break that down into 15 different languages if you want to. It is still, uh, utter destruction.
Speaker 1:I've done a study on that scripture there's so many people who come to our church who has this terrible theology and, uh, where our church is located, it's very um once saved, always saved, um, very um grace field area yeah and so the true knowledge of accountability and producing fruit and all this stuff, and what they're finding out is, it's just it. They're not growing, they're not developing. And so you got people coming who are hearing truth and they're like what is simple truth?
Speaker 1:because we, the gospel is simple is this divine revelation because the what they're calling the true gospel now, which is just a crazy gospel that nobody's ever heard of don't get me started. Yeah, they get you fired up is, is really this hey, you know what? You wake up, do whatever you want and you're going to heaven like no, no, no, that, no, no, that's not what scripture is, and so when we preach and teach that, we're just it's so hard to explain, man.
Speaker 2:I mean we.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. We are just we're destroying the church.
Speaker 2:I have. I said I shared a video the other day and just it, just it just hit me, man. I was like what are you going to hear when you stand in front of Jesus Job, well done, good and faithful servant, or depart from me. I never knew you and I don't care how you break that scripture down. You have two options. When you stand before God, it's going to be one or the other. And there are people who will say I prophesied in your name, I cast out demons in your name. These ain't the unsaved people, these are quote unquote saints. These are people who supposedly know Jesus. I cast out demons in your name. I prophesied in your name, I did everything in your name. And he's going to say depart from me, I never knew you. Oh, I don't want to be there with that you can.
Speaker 2:You can hear that, bro. I'm telling you that is the most, the most. You never you won't hear anything any sadder in eternity and you will be living that, that last sentence you receive yep, it's no longer.
Speaker 1:Is what can I do to be saved? It's, what can I do and still be safe right.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I'm sorry. And yeah, I'm sorry man.
Speaker 1:Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I'm running away with this thing?
Speaker 1:No, no, no. I get passionate about this. No, you go ahead, you go ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just about, and I say preserving and protecting the true gospel man. You have to pick up your cross and you have to follow Jesus. You have to constantly be be being being taught, being led by the Holy Spirit, being led by the gospel, being led by God.
Speaker 1:And let me just say this this is not work for salvation conversation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. This is not work. This is you producing fruit. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:You're living a life, See.
Speaker 2:this is where we twist the word and how many parables talk about the fruit Exactly?
Speaker 1:Exactly. And we twist it and say no, no, that's you working. No, no, no, it's not me working, it's me producing fruit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And for me to produce fruit I have to work. That's why it says faith without works is dead. In order for your faith to work, you have to put it to work. It's not that you don't have to earn salvation, you're right. You don't work to earn it, but you work to produce fruit.
Speaker 2:You work because you have it.
Speaker 1:That's right, and it produces something out of me. It makes no sense for me to have something and produce nothing with it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:What good is that?
Speaker 2:The parable of the talents. He gave one, five, one, two, one one. Right, you waste, yeah. And then he gets to the one and is like well, I knew you were a master who was hard, you don't reap where you didn't sow. And he's like well, you knew that, but then you buried what I gave you. So he took it from him and gave it to the other ones Exactly.
Speaker 2:So how has the church now translated that? That which is what Jesus expects? And now, oh no, that's work. I don't have to work. Yeah, you cannot be light, and be sugar.
Speaker 2:Well, because, you're just like everybody else. Yeah, the church is. We are a peculiar people. We are supposed to be different. That's right. There is a standard to being a Christian. Yeah, we are supposed to pick up our cross, follow Jesus, separate ourselves from sin. We are supposed to pick up our cross, follow Jesus, separate ourselves from sin. I mean that whole salt man. Go dig into that scripture in Matthew 5, 13, 14, man, that scripture that I preached and I'm sure you could find it online if you wanted to listen to it. Man, I don't sugarcoat.
Speaker 1:You know that right? Yeah, we lay it down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't sugarcoat, but anyway, in fact, there was an incident recently with I think it was Mark Driscoll. Yeah, driscoll, driscoll, driscoll. Yeah, bless your soul. You want to talk about that for a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, if you didn't know, Mark Driscoll was at a men's conference in an arena and he was the keynote speaker. Do you remember the pastor's name? Is it lindy?
Speaker 1:lindell, lindell lindell at um james river church in missouri. That's where it is yep and so, anyway, most of you probably if you listen to our podcast you've probably heard about this thing. It's all over social media this past week or two and mark driscoll was coming up to preach and before he preached they had an entertainer there. Now, this entertainer used to be a stripper okay, he used to be. Let me just clear the air okay, please do. Because you know I'm frustrated with this thing You're passionate about.
Speaker 2:this.
Speaker 1:Everybody kept talking about how this guy was a stripper and they had a stripper in church, but this dude hasn't been a stripper in over five years. And, and they had a stripper in church, but this dude hasn't been a stripper in over five years and my mindset is, if I don't want you bringing up things I've been redeemed from, I'm not going to bring up things you've been redeemed from and hold it over your head.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:What is wrong with Christians?
Speaker 2:today, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:We put our stones away. Yeah, absolutely, I put our stones away. Okay, thank God, you're no longer a stripper. Okay, and he can't be. It's not the performer's problem.
Speaker 2:The performer's past is not the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right For him and him being invited to come. He's not the issue, right, you can't blame him. Yeah, it's leadership. And so they made a big ordeal about him being there, like, hey man, the dude just got paid to do a job and he's not a stripper, okay.
Speaker 2:Don't label him something he's not. He's a Christian, he's a believer. That's according to Lindell, or whatever his name is, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pastor L, yeah, so he was up there. He was hanging upside down with swords in his mouth and all this kind of stuff, right. I didn't really watch everything, but I've seen clips. Clips, yeah, and mark driscoll comes up and he, he takes a knee, he takes his hat off and it really a um exhortation of being humble, yeah, and that's what, and I'm I'm pretty good man.
Speaker 2:Not that I'm perfect, but I've been in law enforcement for a while. I read expressions, I read micro expressions, I read faces all kinds of different things and to me he looked humble. He took his hat off, he took a knee and he taught. He spoke very softly. As a shepherd yeah exactly that's the demeanor that I read on his face when he was speaking.
Speaker 1:But I'm sorry, go ahead. And so he comes out there and he's just kind of holding them accountable, like Jezebel Spirit's been here, like you need to repent for having this, like I love you, but this was wrong. Yeah, for having this, like I love you but this was wrong. And in the middle of him kind of giving correction and giving his heart out, this pastor, pastor L, kind of said no, no, you're done. Like, cut the mic off.
Speaker 2:And then he gets up to Matthew 18.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he gets up to Matthew 18. And the good thing is, mark Driscoll was like okay. I'll receive that and I'll step away, which is hard to do, absolutely, but he did it, yep, and he did it, and he did it great yeah, and now, now to and I've heard this and and again.
Speaker 2:I don't want to like get into what I've heard and haven't heard what the case is like. I'm just want to provide some information that I've received from other people. Is that, um, he has, hey, he has a past as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean. But we're not bringing that up. I'm just saying that you know he's talking about the stripper who has a past, and then. But just anyway, the past is the past.
Speaker 1:So we're talking about here and now. Yeah, right now.
Speaker 2:What I received, or what I saw when I saw him take a knee, was true humility. And again, I could be wrong, but he seemed very, very he was trying to bring correction in the most loving way I think he could. But then, when the pastor got up, it's a quote in Matthew 18, which is if you have an offense, go to your brother. Well, here's the thing, the offense wasn't with his brother, the offense was with the whole event. I mean, this is it was really addressing the church, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, he's talking about the guy's performance. He's talking about the performance as a whole man taking his shirt off on a pole, swallowing a sword.
Speaker 2:Upside down cross yeah upside down, yeah, at the bottom, with his arms open, like he's upside down on the cross, like I get it. He's performing Whatever, performing whatever. I didn't take anything out of the event in itself. The act in itself. It was a performance. That's how I took it. But I understand what he's saying in the fact that why are we entertaining men when we're there to entertain God? That's right. Why are we entertaining men when we're there to connect with God, to grow in God? So that's kind of what we've been talking about anyway, and this is a perfect example of how we've kind of. The goal is not to entertain men. It's not a performance, it's a connecting with God to grow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, Because if it takes gimmicks, if it takes giveaways, if it takes all these things to get people, if that's our bait look what you said with sugar it's going to always have to be that way. If you give them Jesus, that's what they're expecting each and every week in your services and anytime they meet you, and so why are we adding to something that doesn't need addition absolutely?
Speaker 2:I have no idea jesus is simple enough.
Speaker 1:The gospel is enough for us, right. And when the gospel is not enough for us as leaders, it'll never be enough for people. When jesus is not enough for us as leaders, it it'll never be enough for people. When Jesus is not enough for us as leaders, it'll never be enough for the people that are coming to our church. And now what we're doing is we're creating people who are coming to church itching for the next big thing in ministry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what kind of coffee y'all Exactly Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and so we got to keep adding things. Why? Because ministries now want to one-up each other.
Speaker 2:That's right. We're not creating disciples, we're creating dependents.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And I don't know. It is frustrating to be and this is why, man, look I really I work a lot of times with blinders on. I'm like, let me focus on what God's got Crosspoint doing, let me focus on what we're doing, because you can, man, and I try to. I've said this several times I let the dead bury the dead. I ain't got time to correct everybody, but this has been everywhere.
Speaker 1:You couldn't have no, you can't avoid this.
Speaker 2:You couldn't avoid this one. This is everywhere you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's right, and you know he comes back up. This is where I got a big problem. Okay, oh yeah go ahead. Pastor L comes back up the next day or the Sunday service.
Speaker 2:Even that same service, though supposedly they get it fixed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they get it fixed right. They're supposed to have reconciled. Excuse me, sorry about that. Cleared my throat. Got a little frustrated over here, got a little phlegm, let me mute you.
Speaker 1:So he comes back and instead this is where I don't get it. Instead of hey saying sharing your heart really in a sense of defending yourself, or bringing clarity, because he knows it's all over the mainstream, instead of saying, hey, guys, let me share my heart, like this was my intention Maybe hindsight 2020, I probably should have did that a little differently and moving forward. We're going to make some adjustments in our ministries and we just want some grace in this situation, but instead of doing that, he goes and starts pointing fingers at Mark Driscoll and is like you need to repent in front of everybody and to the church and I'm like dude, where have we got to this?
Speaker 1:There's no humility in the church anymore. We don't own up to our decisions, or nothing.
Speaker 2:You just invoke Matthew 18 with him, and then you turn around and do the opposite. Oh, my goodness bro. Practice what you preach man, practice what you preach Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so it's like, when you think about the state, the state of the church as a whole, it starts at leadership, correcting the things that need to be corrected, because, as the leader is, as the people, and you duplicate who?
Speaker 2:you are Leaders.
Speaker 1:Duplicate themselves you duplicate who you are and what you preach and what you teach, especially because, dude, here's the truth. I'd say 80 of your congregants are not going back and double checking your scriptures, not going back and double checking what you're saying yeah if they've entrusted you to lead them, they're entrusting what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing, though.
Speaker 1:I've told them to yeah, oh, I tell them to all the time be a berean go study scripture. Absolutely don't take my word for it. Absolutely, but because of where we are at, the state of the church, unfortunately, christians just come to church anyway, just to get a word, and that's all they get.
Speaker 2:They're looking for the goosebumps and to feel good, and then they go home and they're unchanged.
Speaker 1:And here's the truth, bro. I tell my church I even said it again this Sunday my let you leave here, just encouraged and feeling all good. I want you to leave here, challenge. I want you to leave here, quit. I actually want you to leave here saying, dang, I've got work to do on myself and I've got to be a better christian. I got to be a better husband, better spouse. I'm a better co-worker. I want you to leave knowing you've got work to do to be better, because we all do. But when you come to a place where it's all about how good you are and how good god is, you You're not good, only God is good.
Speaker 1:And it's like, hey, you're good, do whatever you want to do, because God's grace is sufficient. It is sufficient, man, I'm about to throw this microphone at somebody. Go ahead I just get frustrated at the lack of truth that's being preached in churches and listen. I'm not casting judgment. I'm just holding up the standard that Jesus requires us to hold up.
Speaker 2:Nobody wants to iron. There is no iron sharpening iron anymore.
Speaker 1:No, because we don't think our iron needs sharpening Absolutely, because we think that we've reached a certain level that now I attend our discipleships.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But why? Because I'm learning, I'm growing. You know, I try my best. I don't even hardly speak at these things. Yeah, because I things. Yeah, because I want to be poured into as well. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. But as a church as a whole, pastor jay, I think we have took a hard turn in the wrong direction when it comes to leading our people and holding up the standard. And because we see what's growing the church, but not growing believers, we would choose on growth. Why? Because we're egotistical people, absolutely, and we would rather have a church full of people.
Speaker 2:Than disciples.
Speaker 1:Exactly Because discipleship takes work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was man dude, my brain disappeared again. Not John Wesley, it was another guy. He wrote the Cross and the Switchblade, david. Anyway, he was one on. He wrote Platt. No, not David Platt, this is before David.
Speaker 1:Platt, it's all right, you'll get your thoughts together.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we'll work on it, we'll get it together. But he wrote that book or whatever, and he was big in evangelism and he said you know, you give me 100 people on fire for God and we'll change the city. Yeah, he was talking about New York.
Speaker 1:Yep absolutely.
Speaker 2:You get people sold out. It's the same way in churches. If you think about it Like 20% do 80% of the work.
Speaker 1:Yep, Anyway, and that's true for almost every church. But you know, I want to encourage our listeners today. Okay, make sure you're in a ministry that's preaching the true gospel.
Speaker 2:That challenges you.
Speaker 1:Equips you.
Speaker 1:Yep, I mean it tells you the actual truth like, convicts you of sin through the word. Get a part of the ministry. If you're a leader today, make sure you're convicted by this word you're preaching yeah, make sure you're following it. You're not diluting, you're not adding to it, you're not taking from. You're preaching the truth of God's word. It is the truth of God's word that redeems us and sets us free. And what happens is is when we don't preach truth, pastor Jason, only just sugarcoating everything, we have a whole church that is bound, that just is desperate for deliverance, desperate for freedom. But because we don't address anything, people still stay bound the rest of their life. But when you address the word, bring the word and address things, freedom is in the room if Jesus is there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen he's there. And you can do it. You can do it in love, but it has to be addressed. People walking in sin, people walking in error have got to be corrected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, if you are a leader, it's got to be done. Including leaders Yep. Find your accountability group.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I tell you all the time how messed up you are. I know I tell you the same thing, Listen.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you, me and Jay, I mean, don't be confused about this relationship. I mean we're tough on each other, we challenge each other, like hey, that's not a. You might want to think through that idea, you might want to consider something. And we talk about the gospel. I mean every week we are sharing things God has given us and you've got to have people in your life who can test. I mean we've talked about gifts of the Spirit. I mean we were like when it came to baptism and this stuff, I mean me and Jay were just going back and forth like hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. And you need people in that, because God has entrusted us man to lead people. I'm about to break down.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, he's entrusted us to lead people to shepherd people, and we take it so lightly to where we can just go used to joke and say we get a message from the refrigerator manual, but we would rather just go download something online instead of pray and ask God what do the people you've entrusted me to steward with? What do they need from you?
Speaker 2:this Sunday.
Speaker 1:What do they need from you? This week and now? We just got teams collaborating on what to preach every week versus getting something from the Holy Spirit, who knows the hearts of men, what each person needs, and man. I think we've created the church just simply to the business part and we've ran it well as a business, but the spiritual side has just crept out of the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not running a living, breathing powerful organism. They're running their CEO of an organization, Organization over organism.
Speaker 1:Organism is always greater. I don't care how much money you have, how much money you need. God will provide if you store the people's souls over their bank account.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've heard this. It's cliche, but if he gives the vision, he'll give the provision to go along with it. Always, man, always. But anyway, you heart clear man, you usually want to go ahead and preach.
Speaker 1:I'm stirred up over here, man. A great past offering played around. Pastor Dave, how about you bless them?
Speaker 2:We're so glad that y'all were listening and shared us with somebody, yeah look, we are very, very passionate pastors who want the gospel to be spread. But look, I don't want this watered down. And look, absolutely, we do it in love. But now I've preached some pretty hard messages and it steps on our toes long before it steps on anyone else's when we're preaching truth.
Speaker 1:But anyway, we come in limping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got first aid kits all over the church, but no, look, we want to. We thank you guys for taking your time to tune in and definitely, hey, comment, share this, like, follow whatever it is. Look, we just want to share what God lays on our hearts, to share with you and share truth. But anyway, let's give this priestly blessing to you before we depart here. From Numbers 6, 24 through 26. It says the Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you.
Speaker 1:Hallelujah, hallelujah, get them back to the Bible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we good to go. I was going to hit him with it, but I'm going to let him go. Hey, God bless you. Thank you so much for following us. We look forward to next time here on Pastor to Pastor.
Speaker 1:See you later.