Pastor to Pastor
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Pastor to Pastor
Unraveling Deliverance: Reclaiming Authority Ep. 2
Ever wondered how mastering power tools and tackling new responsibilities could transform your spiritual journey? Join Pastor Seth and Pastor Jason Watson as they share hands-on experiences from their ministry, celebrating milestones like Reliant church's new building and the rapid growth of Cross Pointe Christian Academy. Discover the blessings and challenges they faced and the invaluable lessons learned along the way.
This episode takes a deep dive into reclaiming authority in the spiritual realm. Building on last week's conversation about deliverance, we untangle the enemy's intentions to steal, kill, and destroy, contrasting them with Jesus' promise of abundant life. Learn practical insights into recognizing and combating spiritual attacks to empower you and your family to live victoriously. Don’t miss this powerful discussion filled with personal anecdotes and transformative truths!
Hey, what's up, family? We are back with another episode of Pastor to Pastor. I'm Pastor Seth. Across from me, I've got the man, Pastor Jay Watson.
Speaker 2:What's up, brother, hey?
Speaker 1:man, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm fantastic man. You had a good week I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm excited. Awesome brother God's doing some great things for us, our family, our church. God's moving man. God's doing some great things for us, our family, our church. God's moving man. You guys just got your building right, yeah, and we're working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're working you know I've learned.
Speaker 1:You know we've made a podcast about what it is pastoring and behind the scenes and stuff. But man, I'm learning. Honestly, you know you may laugh at this and think this is a joke, but I'm learning some manly stuff, bro.
Speaker 2:Are you using power tools, yet my?
Speaker 1:good, I am. Last night we were working on the stage and stuff. I was like you know what, Let me get my hands a little dirty, my wife just showed up. Look, I can sweat a little bit.
Speaker 2:It's good man.
Speaker 1:They're knocking down walls. Our kids' ministry is going to be amazing. We can't wait, but I'm excited God gets a blessing.
Speaker 2:We're excited for you guys. I know Reliant Church is going to be a blessing to the community, man, and we're super excited, super stoked, that you guys finally got a place to call home, a place that you own and, bro, it's amazing what God's doing Even for us, man.
Speaker 2:Our Crosspoint Christian Academy launches this year, and so officially to the public, and so we tripled in size, just from our sample size last year. So, trying to get things in place, trying to get all the assets and resources and things that we need in order to facilitate everything we're doing, School starts here very soon. So it's quite interesting, man, everything that God's got going. But look, man, let's talk about the topic for today. That's right, we talked about deliverance last week and we kind of opened up about, you know, the spirit world and that it is real, and we talked a little bit about it. But today we're going to dive a little bit deeper and we're going to talk about taking back control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you know deliverance is something that we've been a part of ever since we started going to India and we still do it here in the States and things like that. But what we have learned is that one we're not experts. We're always learning, because it seems like every deliverance is different. You're learning something, you're growing.
Speaker 2:There's not always like a cookie cutter way, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so we're continuing to grow. We're going to grow with this podcast. We want you to learn and develop with us as we are, so this may be a two episode, three episode.
Speaker 2:We don't know.
Speaker 1:We're just going to kind of go with the flow. I'm excited we're going to talk about taking back control. You know not just yourself, your family and stuff and what that looks like, and you know what are the roles of demons, what do they want from us, how do they attack us and stuff. So let's break it down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's start right there. So what do demons want? What does the devil want with us?
Speaker 1:Well, john 10.10 says this that the thief does not come except only.
Speaker 2:Right, only, only to do these things. This is all he's here for.
Speaker 1:That's right Is to steal, to kill and destroy. Amen.
Speaker 2:That's right, he's going to come and steal Okay. We're going to the enemy's camp. That's right. Take back what he took. Take it back it continues.
Speaker 1:The second part of that says I have come that they may have life. We're talking about Jesus. He comes that we may have life and that they may have it more abundantly. So even if you break that down, you've got two different, completely different goals of the enemy versus your father. One is to take everything from you. In this passage he talks about steal, kill and destroy. That is depleting you from something, that is demolishing you. But, on the other hand, god is here. Your father is here to bless you. He is here to give, not to take away. Matter of fact, he's already given you everything you need.
Speaker 1:He sent his son so that you may have life and when you receive him, you receive everything you need in that moment to become all that God has called you to become, and so the enemy's goal is to steal, kill and destroy all of that you have already accepted.
Speaker 2:Steal your purpose, kill your purpose, destroy your purpose, your family's purpose, generations after you. Listen, it's funny because I remember back when we were young young right'm a little older than you, so I mean even younger they still do this today. No doubt it's like the ouija boards and yeah, and they're communicating with the dead and those kinds of things. Look you, you think you're talking to your grandma. Listen, you're talking to a demon and and you people have got to stay clear of those things, because you are coming into agreement by conversating, you're coming into agreement with the enemy and you're opening up gates and opportunities for the and doorways for the enemy to do. Look, they are not here to help you, they are not here to comfort you, they are not here to pity you. In india, remember, they worship like the big demons, so that the little demon they're in their mind. They think if they worship the big demon, the little demons won't like. No, you are opening the doorway for demons to rule your life yep, and I don't understand.
Speaker 1:You know, these tarot reading cards and these psychics and things. We think that those are just.
Speaker 1:You know, we're getting our future from these little cards right that they're, you know, reading cards and stuff, and then these psychics. But and what we're really doing? If we, if we actually think that a card can tell us about our life or somebody can just somehow mystically look into a crystal ball and tell us our future, we have completely went off the beaten path that Christ has created for us, because the Bible says that he knew you before you formed in your mother's womb, that he predestined you, that he created you. The only person you can't look to the stars, you can't look to tarot cards, you can't look to psychics. The only person that you can look to for purpose, for the plan and the mystery of your life is your father, the one who created you.
Speaker 1:And the enemy. He tricks us with these things. This is why these things are demonic, because it's trying to steal our purpose, steal the way we think, from properly understanding that God created us. Yeah, he died for us, he's given us a purpose. And when you look at the enemy and his purposes like Pastor Jay, he's taught this to his church and I love what you have written down is that Satan the enemy. He doesn't come to help. He doesn't come to pacify, to help. He doesn't come to pacify. And let me just say this pastors better be very careful.
Speaker 2:Pacifying people's sin, yeah, pacifying people's emotions, just for the sake of them, to keep their their seat hot yeah, right, I was watching, uh, something earlier uh in the week, man, and, and it's so true we have, if you go back and you look at the template that the apostles left us for preaching the gospel, it is not about how much God loves you.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:It's about how much what he's already done for you and the fact you need to turn your life around and give it to Jesus.
Speaker 2:Repent, repent. That was John the Baptist. His whole life was repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. Yep, right. And so we have gotten into this culture. Look, I believe in grace, right, but I think that grace, and I think that mercy and goodness and all those things that follow us, we, we live in this dreamland where most, most, most pastors right, I don't say most past, I say a lot of pastors, a lot of people leaving this where I can live in my sin and still, and I can sleep with the devil on the weekday and sleep with Jesus on Sunday. And no, you can't serve two masters. You have to make a decision which one are you going to believe? Which one are you going to serve, which one are you going to be with? And you can't be on the fence holding two hands. You got to choose a side.
Speaker 1:yeah, you know, and I want to, I want to stay on topic. But you know it makes me think too when you, when you look at but you know it makes me think too when you look at how we are teaching and preaching, and when you look at what John the Baptist did he preached repent. But you even look at what Peter did after he got filled with the Holy Spirit. He preached and he said repent, turn to the Lord and repent. Three thousand gave their life and then the Bible said because they continued to preach that word, repent repent repent Souls were added to the kingdom daily.
Speaker 2:And I personally believe and I know we're going back to topic in just a minute, but I know we're going in this rabbit hole right now- and it's getting good, yeah, yeah yeah, eventually, you're going to see you have a church right now, as a majority, I think, that are so grace-bound they live in this grace, grace, grace, so grace bound.
Speaker 2:They live in this, in this grace, grace, grace, super grace, everybody's saved. Nobody like, like they live in this, this, this, uh, fairy tale land where I think you're getting ready to start seeing a shift back into the like. This is who we are called to be. This is how we're called to be. Let me ask you this how are we ever going to be persecuted Like, as scripture says, we run to be by standing up for Jesus? Jesus said look, we're going to be by standing up for Jesus? Jesus said look, you're persecuted.
Speaker 2:No, it's okay, they persecuted me first. How are you ever going to be persecuted by sharing in people's sin? How are you ever going to be persecuted by telling them it's okay if you're homosexual? How are you going to be and I know I put it out there it's okay if you live this way. It's okay if you live in gluttony. It's okay if you live in divorce. It's okay if you do these things that God says in abomination or that God doesn't like. It's okay if you're in church, dividing the church, even though that's one of the things God hates. It's okay if you live this lifestyle. How are you ever going to be persecuted by telling people it's okay if they live that way?
Speaker 2:No, scripture is very clear. If you're not being persecuted, you almost have to wonder am I doing the right thing? I mean, at some point in your ministry you have to make a decision. Am I going to preach what John the Baptist preached? Am I going to preach what the apostles preached? Am I going to tell people to repent or are we going to keep walking on this? Hey, it's cool, we're all on this rainbow trail and it leads to Jesus. Like that's not the gospel.
Speaker 1:You know, pastor Jay, this is how this connects to deliverance is because when you preach the truth, the truth sets people free. It does, and the Bible tells us that Jesus told the disciples to do two things, and it was to preach the gospel and to cast out demons. And if you're not—because this is what happens, pastor Jay when you preach the true gospel— when you declare the actual word and the truth, sin can't live.
Speaker 1:It's going to want to manifest it's going to want to come out and therefore, you preach the gospel and you cast those things out and you fill people with the Holy Spirit Because you know he said if it's empty, I'm going to come back with seven more and make it worse and so now we preach the gospel, we set them free and then we fill them with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does that. It's his job. But we create the opportunity Right, and so, when you are actually preaching truth, the opportunity for deliverance is going to present itself. But you've got to know what you're looking at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Word is living, yeah, and it's sharper than any two-edged sword. It divides. It separates the spirit and the flesh, the bone and the marrow, like it. It does those things. And if you're preaching truth, yes, you're going to feel convicted, yes, you're going to feel the need to repent. You're going to feel those kinds of things because you're being drawn into the light. Yeah, and we've done this in india, preaching and and we're like all right, lord, like we talked about last episode, people come into the altar hundreds at the time. How do you differentiate? You ask for god, that, for light to illuminate the darkness. And's what happens. And that's what happens when you preach truth. But anyway, we're talking about taking back control, yeah, and in many ways, I feel like that should be.
Speaker 1:The truth is what helps you highlight, because the enemy cannot withstand truth. Right, he's going to rear up, yeah, he's going to come, he's going to come bold. But if you never preach the truth, he's got your people right where you want them.
Speaker 2:The problem is people are dealing with symptoms instead of the root cause.
Speaker 1:Yeah, medicating everything.
Speaker 2:We're pacifying symptoms instead of curing the real problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. See, I knew we'd get back to pacify.
Speaker 2:There you go. I knew we would. There you go. We'd circle back around.
Speaker 1:And you know you also said this is that he doesn't come to protect you. If it's not the Holy Ghost, it's the enemy. And this scripture is very clear. One does this and the other does this. You should be able to divide that line and determine what it is that you're dealing with. Either it's a blessing or it's a curse, but it can't be either. It can't be both of them. They can't dwell in the same place. So let's break this down really really briefly Steal, kill and destroy.
Speaker 1:I think, personally, I think these are stages. I think that first thing he does is he steals. He steals your joy, he starts attacking your purpose, he steals your peace and all those things that he tries to get you to where now I'm starting to get bitter toward God. And now, if he's got me in my mind stealing these things, my thought process is that now he can get my mind off of the Father, then he can come in and begin to kill those things on the inside of me that God has actually been causing to bloom Right, right, that purpose, that passion, that zeal. Now he's beginning to kind of uproot those things, because now my mind is not continuing to water the flower that's blooming in me that God is stirring.
Speaker 1:Now he's given an opportunity and more space in my life to kill those things that God has been birthing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instead of life growing, now there's a desolate land, now there's wilderness. My God.
Speaker 1:Come on, we could go as deep as we want to go, but we can't even talk about abortion. This is the attack of the enemy. I'm going to tell you this While the government wants to kill them, we're dedicating them. Yeah, Because this is the gospel. The enemy comes in to steal and to kill the things that God is birthing in people. Birthing purpose birthing sons and daughters multiplying the kingdom.
Speaker 2:How many pastors have been aborted, oh my God. How many disciples have been killed in the womb. Man come on you got me ready to preach and run son.
Speaker 1:It's the truth. See, we read by this yeah, he's going to steal, he's going to kill, he's going to destroy, but we're strong-minded. Now you need to learn to identify the attacks of the enemy.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like learn to identify the attacks of the enemy right. Like it's not this, it's not just little baby attacks and stuff, I mean he is killing families.
Speaker 1:He's killing generations yeah, generation. You talk about generational curses. I'm talking about generational massacres, where the enemy has come and destroyed purposes, where people were on fire that I grew up with with church, and now, all of a sudden, the enemy took one moment, one situation and took everything that the lord had been building from them, because they didn't have the right foundation and they didn't have the right ministries that were connected and firm enough to preach the word and call out the things that people were really dealing with Absolutely. This is why we have churches that think man. I hate to keep talking about churches, but we've experienced it. We've seen it to where we feel like we can just shout our way through mess and we could just worship and cry and get emotional and all of a sudden, we're okay, it's right back to the symptoms.
Speaker 2:You think about how, how Saul had a tormenting spirit attached to him, right, right, and then David would come in and worship, and what would happen? David's worship would send the spirit away, but then David would leave and the spirit would come back. And so we are worshiping and and we're, we're, we're getting all emotional and and we're, we're pacifying, we're, we're okay with sending the demon away for a moment and sending the, the darkness away for a moment, instead of taking back control and dealing what is actually causing the darkness to begin with, could it be your lack of obedience, like saul was dealing with? Yep, I mean, could it be you're not doing what god's called you to do? Could it be you keep pacifying sin, you keep doing what you want to do instead of what god's telling you to do, and then you're, you're inviting these, the enemy, into your life, yep that's exactly what happens, and we we have got as leaders and even laity.
Speaker 1:It's not up to the leaders to do everything, but that's why we've got to teach more, we've got to break down things more, because this shouting your way through church and just lifting your hands and crying is not going to keep the enemy away. It's not Like you said just for a moment. When David left, they came right back, and so then you've got the steal, you've got the kill, and then you have to destroy, because when you get to that third stage, he's demolishing everything. That was a foundation at one point and now you no longer have a foundation in christ. You have a foundation in pain, in a hurt, in deceitfulness, in bitterness and all the things that the enemy takes from you yeah, and you end up becoming a victor, a victor, a victim instead of a victor, yep absolutely and then you get this victim mindset oh, man, and, and you know what?
Speaker 1:and this is why people love, I think sometimes we, we, as backtrack just a minute back to the first stage be careful of people who just love the woe is me mentality right, the the party mentality, because they've already accepted everything the enemies took and they don't have any desire to get it back. And now, because the way you are, it's going to be okay. God's got a plan, god's got a purpose.
Speaker 1:Get out of here with these little I heard somebody call them these Hobby Lobby scriptures Come on man when you just go in Hobby Lobby and you get these scriptures you put on the wall who make you feel a lot better right right the problem is I don't need you to feel better, I need you free right and freedom is rough. It's a. It's a battle. Deliverance is a battle. Yeah, it's not. Hey, let's just go in here, lay hands on you and quote jesus loves you and be set free and in 30 minutes you're just fine. Yeah, no, no.
Speaker 2:And then you go right back out there doing the same thing you just got delivered from.
Speaker 1:Man bro. I hope this podcast starts shifting people, I mean the mindset. I hope leaders hear this and say I've got to do more. I've got to do more, I've got to do better. I've got to stop pacifying these things because I am enabling the enemy to continue to have a stronghold over the people that God has called me to steward and to shepherd. You're not much of a shepherd if you're allowing the enemy to live among your people. Come on Matter of fact, some of us are allowing and ushering him in because we refuse to preach the truth and pacify. Like you said, sin. That's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm here to call you out your sin. I'm here to shout from the rooftop Not to call you out your sin. I'm here to shout from the rooftop Not to call you out, but to call the sin out of you, yes.
Speaker 1:That's what we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand and I feel the Lord, I'm about to throw this microphone. Don't throw it, bro. Don't throw it. Hold on to it, Just lift your hands right there.
Speaker 1:all right, man I love it, but we've got to start teaching our people what does it look like when this is the enemy? It's not a season. I'm just going through a season. Lord forgive me, but screw your season. It's not a season, it's attacks. The enemy is not in seasonal work. He's not okay. I've attacked them this season. I'm going to give them a seasonal work. He's not okay. I've just had them this season. I'm going to give them a seasonal break. It's not that we're so churchy, it's my season. I love that song we used to sing. Whatever you're doing in this season, don't do it, don't do it without me.
Speaker 1:I love that song and I love the basis of it, but the enemy is not going to quit.
Speaker 2:No, his season is simple your whole life. Yep, he's always. He's roaming around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Yep, he is always at the door. Yep, he's waiting for you to mess up, waiting for you to sin. But praise God, well, praise God. He has sin, but praise god, well, praise god. He has given us that hedge of protection, he's given us that grace, given us that mercy. But it's not so that we can go out here and just do whatever we want to do and how we want to do it. Even the woman who jesus said, who jesus saved from it, he said go and quit, you're sinning.
Speaker 1:Yeah the adulterer, the one who committed adultery, stop sinning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, stop it, just quit. Just let that pinky go, just quit. Okay, we ain't got time for talking about the pinky.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, you know I I taught on that message with the woman with adultery and I said some of us would be standing with the Pharisees instead of standing with Jesus who is hey, be set free and go, sin no more.
Speaker 1:But some of us love to see people broken, love to see people get what they deserve, even though we're over here standing among grace. We love to see people bound because the attention is no longer on our sin, the attention is no longer on us. Can I tell you this True Christians want to be in the hedges and highways with people in the gutter with them, to set them free. Bring the mountain low, bring the valley high and set people free. Would you be standing with Jesusesus who is saying repent, be free. We put down the stones, be set free, sin no more? Or are we standing with the pharisees saying no, no, stay broken, stay burdened, continue to let him steal your joy, continue to let him kill the things that god's birthing in you, and I don't care how long it goes? That's a question we've got to ask ourselves. What kind of christian are we standing with jesus? Are we standing with the adversary?
Speaker 2:right. I think you know the thing is too is I want to bring to light kind of in this conversation as we kind of get back on track here is and we got much time, but as, as we get back on track, the enemy is good at what the enemy does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he's had a lot of time.
Speaker 2:Been doing it for a long, long, long, long time. Yeah, the enemy is really good at what he does. Look, most Christians don't know that we are at a war constantly, like what we've been talking about. Right, yeah, and they are trained in the ways, and the more that we train our people, the more that we engage and empower and teach them the ways of the Lord. That's what the church is about, man. It's standing against the enemy, standing against the darkness. The church should be a mighty force against the kingdom of darkness, and the more we teach and activate people in spiritual warfare, the stronger the church is going to become, because that is the attack of the enemy.
Speaker 1:The enemy's number one attack is spiritual warfare Right. So why would we not teach and train and develop?
Speaker 2:Because churches are. You know this may not be like a common thing in every church, but there are churches arguing over the color of carpet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There are churches arguing over whether we should put in a new AC unit, all these different things that they're arguing about why people are dying and going to hell every day, instead of actually engaging them, engaging the community, taking back what the enemy's taking. Our goal is to gain ground for the kingdom. Anyway, I'm going to keep moving. Goal is to gain ground for the kingdom, but we've.
Speaker 1:We're anyway. I saw, I saw a stat today, jay, that said the average christian listens to 500 christian songs a year and 200 messages that are preached a year, but yet don't share the gospel to one person all year long. And you know, when we do the just overview of ministry and stuff and we talk about spiritual warfare, it should be a common conversation. Yeah, like you said, what you're basically saying is the enemy's number one weapon is spiritual warfare.
Speaker 1:Why are we not talking about it? Why are we not teaching about it? Why are we not teaching, training and developing and giving people insight and discernment on how to uh, pinpoint what it is? And so I'm telling you, this podcast is helping me because I'm going to start shifting some of our development and our training, even in our leadership, um, on teaching them and training them, just so they'll, they'll have it. It because when people on their teams and people that they're ministering to, when it comes up, I don't want them to just put a Band-Aid on, I want them to have the authority and have the boldness to even notice what they see and call it out.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, how many Christians are trained in pulling down strongholds?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. I don't know that I was, even before I was in ministry, was ever trained.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, and this is the kind of discipleship that— and you know what?
Speaker 1:And when I heard people talk about the stronghold, it was never about how to deal with it. It was what happens when you get set free. Like it's all about you get set free because God you're in a stronghold, but God can set you free. Okay, but what's the process look like?
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely, you know. Yeah, but you know. 2 Corinthians 10, 3 through 4 says For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war against the flesh, For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, they're not fleshly, but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.
Speaker 1:That's right. We don't battle flesh to flesh, so when you get sassy with me, I just blame that the demon you carry. Okay, all right, peter, get behind me. Get behind me.
Speaker 2:Satan. When we talk about warfare, you have to realize that the scripture says in Ephesians 6-12,. We've covered this last episode, but just to kind of bring it back again and get you.
Speaker 1:Come on back to Bible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to get you back there, it says. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of this dark age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Wrestling listen, wrestling is a close quarter combat scenario. Like you don't. Wrestling ain't shooting from a distance. Like wrestling is hands on hands, going toe to toe, mano a mano, right, eye to eye, right. Like this is what wrestling is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, as Christians who are waging warfare against the enemy, they need to understand the tools that God has given us To be able to stand eye to eye With the enemy, yeah, and to not back down, to not be scared, to not do those kinds of things. But look, I'll be honest with you, I think this will be best suited for the next episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Don't give them too much. Don't give them too much, just keep them coming back.
Speaker 2:Amen, no, no, no. Hey, we hope this has absolutely Someone else who we can help Some other leader, some other peer, Like somebody share it with somebody. Look, this will help people, set people free and engage them and equip them to fight the enemy and quit just taking what the enemy gives us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you've got any questions or any comments or anything like that or topics that you'd like to kind of get some more understanding on, send us a message or comment on the post and we'll be happy to kind of help walk through this thing Absolutely on the post and we'll be happy to kind of help walk through this thing absolutely and we're going to bless you really quickly. It's the priestly blessing in numbers, chapter six. It says the lord bless you and keep you. The lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you. The lord lift up his countenance on you and give you peace. Thank you so much for taking a listen, share, comment, like and we'll catch you here next time god bless you.
Speaker 2:We'll catch you next time.
