Pastor to Pastor
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Pastor to Pastor
Politics In The Pulpit: Christian Responsibility in a Politically Charged World
Fresh off the heels of Donald Trump being reelected as President of the United States, the Pastor to Pastor Podcast asks the question, "Does politics have a place in the pulpit, or does it create unnecessary division and distraction from our true mission?" Join Pastors Seth Odom and Jason Waston, as we tackle this challenging question head-on in our latest episode. We passionately argue that our sermons should transcend political affiliations and focus on the eternal kingdom of Jesus Christ. By guiding our congregations with biblical truth, we can encourage informed decisions rooted in scripture rather than political bias, thereby fostering unity and spiritual growth. Our discussion reiterates the transformative power of the gospel, which surpasses any earthly political system and calls us to shepherd souls towards Christ.
Throughout our conversation, we emphasize the critical role pastors play in leading their flock according to biblical principles not popular political views. By preserving the integrity of our message and avoiding worldly agendas, we set a powerful example for unity within the church. We also delve into the significance of accountability in Christian speech and actions, reminding ourselves and our listeners of the impact our words can have on others. Drawing from biblical scriptures and personal experiences, we challenge fellow Christians to prioritize their ambassadorship for Christ over personal opinions, ensuring our lives reflect the values we preach. Join us for a thought-provoking and spiritually enriching conversation that challenges conventional views and strives for a deeper understanding of our Christian responsibility.
Politics in the Pulpit. Should we have it, let's talk about it on the next Pastor to Pastor. Hey, it is Pastor Jason, along with my co-host here, pastor Seth Odom. What's up family. Hey look, we are so excited to have another episode of Pastor to Pastor. Look, we're going to talk about today politics in the pulpit. Does it belong in the pulpit, pastor Seth? Come on hit us with it.
Speaker 2:Well, I think there's a lot of people who think it does, and I think there's a lot of people who don't think it does. But here's the truth. I believe this election is the worst that we have seen the public opinion in and out of the church, especially with leaders. I think that you've got to be very careful with bringing politics into the pulpit and if you do, you've got to be very, very strategic. Me, I'm not sure if you've ever done this, but I have never, ever, brought politics in the pulpit. In just a minute, I'll tell you why. What about you?
Speaker 1:Man. No, actually, I try very hard not to bring politics into the pulpit because, listen man, I'm a kingdom citizen and the only kingdom that's going to be preached from a pulpit here at Crosspoint Church is going to be the kingdom of.
Speaker 2:Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so we've got to be careful as pastors and people who are trying to be shepherds and steward the flock that God has entrusted us with. And what we always have to keep in mind, too, is the people that are in our ministries are not the only people that we will minister to. Right, especially if you have live stream and you have a consistency of new people coming, you've got to be very careful on being consistent in preaching the kingdom, preaching the Bible, and when you come over to worldly topics with no backing of Scripture or not really proving a point that Jesus was making, you've got to be very careful because you'll limit your reach.
Speaker 2:So what I believe one of the reasons I don't talk about politics is because I believe it cuts an arm off, it takes your reach away, because the moment I start talking about being a Democrat or being a Republican or a Libertarian, whatever it is, it begins to limit the reach, because people begin to now lose confidence based off what side that I'm in. And so, as a pastor, one of the things is how can I expand my reach? How can I make sure that what I'm preaching and teaching reaches the heart of man to encourage him to follow Christ, and I think politics shortens that reach, limits us because it creates a really divide. One thing you said, and just prepping for this podcast you talked about preaching truth, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny, man. We had a. There was a person who posted on social media another pastor friend of ours who posted on social media and he was saying something about. What was it in particular? Something about we shouldn't be preaching politics from the pulpit. And I had to go into it. I agree, I don't think we should be preaching politics from the pulpit, because I believe that if you preach truth, if you preach scripture enough, people will know how to vote, because if you're preaching truth and that's something that a lot of people get away from today but if you are preaching the truth, if you're preaching scripture, if you're preaching the gospel, people know how they should vote. Man.
Speaker 2:It's not something.
Speaker 1:I have to get up here and say vote for this candidate because of this or because of that. It's like this is what scripture says and this is how you should be voting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we didn't sign up to preach our opinion. Yeah, come on, this is not what we do. We're not called to preach our opinion. We're not to be storytellers. We are to preach the gospel, and here's why. It's because people are on their way to hell and it is the truth of the word of God that will change their lives forever.
Speaker 2:Not who to vote for is going to change them. The president isn't going to get them into heaven. We say this all the time. It doesn't matter who's in office. God is in control. And if we believe that God holds the world in the palm of his hand, whoever in presidents or in the Senate, god still controls it all. We're going to be all right in the end, as long as we make sure that we follow and obey the word of God, and that's our job as pastors. Lead people with the word. Lead people to have faith and trust, not in the governmental systems here on earth, but the governmental systems in the kingdom that God has told us that we, as long as we are faithful to him, he will supply and meet every need that we have.
Speaker 2:And you know that goes to our citizenship. You mentioned it. I'm a citizen of the kingdom, you know? The truth is, jason, we have a dual citizenship. Yeah, you know, we're citizens here of the United States. If you're listening from somewhere else, you're a citizen in that country continent, wherever you're at. And we also, as a Christian, have a citizenship in the kingdom of heaven. Let me just be very honest your one citizenship takes precedent over the other. Yeah, very honest, your one citizenship takes precedent over the other, and my citizenship to the kingdom of heaven takes precedent over my citizenship here on earth. This is why we bring the kingdom of heaven here on earth. Did you know this? We're about to get a little deep here. Okay, talk about the kingdom. Okay, this is. If Adam and Eve would have never sinned, where would they have lived forever? In the Garden of Eden On earth.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We were made to rule here on earth. This is our home. Too many people are waiting to get to heaven, heaven being their home. We were to bring the kingdom of heaven here on earth and when you don't understand your kingdom citizenship, your role as an ambassador of Christ, you're going to fall into the trap of politics, to fall into the trap of things here on the earth and miss the ultimate purpose, and sometimes, in the pulpit, when we bring earthly things to a kingdom ministry, we really muddy the waters and don't make it clear for people. We've got to be very, very careful as leaders.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there should be one sound coming out of the pulpit man, and that is the sound of the gospel of Jesus.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, there's no doubt about it. And what does Romans 12 say?
Speaker 1:Man. Look Romans 12, too. It makes it clear Look, this is the scripture I wanted to share because it's important for us as citizens, man, or as preachers of the gospel and the good news. Like I'm not a preacher of Donald Trump, that's right I'm not a preacher of Kamala Harris, I'm a preacher of Jesus Christ, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Come on, somebody lift your hands right. Yeah, so that's what I preach, man, and my job as a pastor is to use scripture to help renew people's minds, and that's what Romans 12, 2 talks about.
Speaker 1:It says don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Right, and that's what scripture does. You have to have scripture, you have to have truth, and we are unlearning a lot of bad habits. We are unlearning. So when we're renewing our mind, when we allow scripture, when we allow the Holy Spirit to renew our mind, we are unlearning a whole lot of bad things that we were raised learning. There's a lot of listen.
Speaker 1:I believe the Bible is the basic instruction, right for life, like it gives us how we're to go, how we're to walk, how we're to carry ourselves, because the world has its own agenda and the enemy has his own idea on how things are supposed to operate.
Speaker 1:But Christ has given us the instruction on how we're to live, how we're to operate, how we're to do things, and so the scripture in itself will renew our mind if we will allow it. Yeah, I remember one time before man I was leaving a restroom, man and I watch people right and this guy was leaving the restroom and he saw me walk in while I'm walking in, while he's walking out, and he goes by the sink and he turns the water on and I'm watching him. I'm using the restroom but I kind of turn around and watch. I always watch behind my back and this guy's using the restroom, right, or he's. He's washing his hands while I'm using the restroom, but he turns the water on and he never puts his hands in the water. Oh my Lord. He turns the water on, he stares at it, he turns the water off, he goes over to to the paper towel dispenser and grabs paper towel and rubs his hands on it and throws it in the trash.
Speaker 1:Pretends to dry his hands and immediately, man, sometimes the Lord speaks to me like that he's like this is what people in church do sometimes. They'll come in, they'll turn the water on, but they'll never let it cleanse them, It'll never let them wash it, It'll never let them take, you know, to renew their mind and to take away the stains and do all these types of things. That's how people are, man. A lot of times in churches They'll come in, the water will run and they'll walk right out, leaving unchanged. But it's our job as pastors to preach truth, to preach Scripture, to allow the renewing of their minds.
Speaker 2:We're not called to be politically correct, we're called to be biblically correct, that's right.
Speaker 2:This is why we should be preaching against abortion, we should be preaching against homosexuality, we should be preaching against this idea of being more than two genders. Why? Because it's not about being politically correct. We are talking about people's lives for eternity and we're not going to pacify, we're not going to preach cupcakes and rainbows. You've got to preach the kingdom truth.
Speaker 2:And when you start putting politics in your messages, you are tainting the word of god. You're kind of you're diluting its power. We are not politically correct. We are biblically correct and we preach the truth, because it is the truth of god's word that exposes every lie and changes the person's life. And so, as leaders, before we get over to all the christians and how we should act because we really want to dive deep into that, leaders, you've got to be very careful of what you talk about in your pulpit and you've got to ask yourself is this what God would have me to say? It's not what would Jesus do, it's what would Jesus have me do, what would he have me preach, what would he have me teach? And I don't see where the Lord would have us ever bring earthly topics and worldly topics into our message so that we could sound relevant, right.
Speaker 1:Because the world changes man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The world changes, the theme changes, all these different things change, but the one thing that will never change is that's God. That's right. I am the same today as yesterday and will be forever. God doesn't change and we may try to change him. We may try to change the way the word is supposed to come out, we may try to change things about God, but God doesn't. He says I change, not yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, we've learned this in leadership development is that you know you duplicate who you are as a leader as you're leading your flock. I heard somebody say it like this flock what the? I heard somebody say it like this what the leader does in a little of the flock would do a great portion of it. So if I do a little bit of sin, then you can expect your flock to do a lot more because we lead by example.
Speaker 1:So what we, what I want us to understand, is this Pastor Jay, Somebody said where there's a mist in the pulpit, there's a fog in the audience. There you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great way to put it yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Thank you for feeling me.
Speaker 1:I had a brain fog. Usually it's you with a brain fog, normally it is me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's very important that we are very discerning of what we preach and what we allow, because we duplicate who we are. We are responsible for who we're shepherding Right and let's not fill our pulpit with politics and things that create divide, because politics were created to divide but the kingdom unites, and if there's a lot of division in your church, you better start looking at yourself and see how have you contributed, as a leader, to the divide that's in the church and in the body of Christ? We've got to take a stand and preach kingdom, preach the Bible, preach the truth, and so with that, let's talk about a little bit of us as Christians. Forget your title and who you are in the body of Christ, I'm talking about just a Christian. How should we act in terms of an opinion? I'm going to read three scriptures really quick Just to give us a foundation Of why we are talking and discussing things In the lane that we are.
Speaker 2:Psalms 19.14 says Let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart Be acceptable in your sight. I remember growing up the pastor, brother Danny Carter. He would say this after every service when it ends. That was the ending prayer Lord, may the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable in your sight, god, our Redeemer, and it was something that he expected all of us. When you leave here, let your words, let your actions, let those things be pure. Honor the Lord in everything that you do. And then Matthew 12, 36 and 37 says I tell you, on the day day of judgment, people will give an account of every careless word they speak or type on social media.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, so you mean I will be accountable for what I told, what I type on facebook, oh yeah, yeah, and the messages you see, and that's for sure okay the words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.
Speaker 2:In this last verse, right here, proverbs 21, 23 whoever keeps his mouth shut and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble. Listen, I can give you a hundred scriptures. There's no joke. You can Google scriptures about keeping your mouth shut and a hundred of them will pull up and tell you what you need to be careful about what you say. So it's very important. In scripture, the word is very clear Be careful, because you will be be careful about what you say. So it's very important. In Scripture, the Word is very clear Be careful because you will be held accountable about what you say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had an example of this happen this past week, someone that I know. We were in a room with two other people and he said something negative about one of the candidates and all I could think about was man. That was a terrible decision because of the candidates and all I could think about was man. That was a terrible decision because of the witness being tainted. You know you care more about saying something negative about somebody who's never doing anything to you. You don't know this person personally, but you believe that your opinion is worth your witness and you know I pulled this person to the side later that afternoon and I'm like you know. You're held accountable.
Speaker 2:You think it's cute, you think it's funny, you think that it's going to get a rise out of people. But you know you're a Christian Right and you're going to be held accountable for every word that you say. Not only will you be held accountable, but think about how people look at you now, knowing you talk about people that way, you're hurting your witness. It doesn't matter how many times you go to Sunday school, how much you give, how many times you teach or preach, it does not matter. How are you treating people? Love people as you love yourself, right.
Speaker 1:I mean, here's the truth you can preach the gospel and teach the gospel and be in disagreement with people's lifestyles and the way they live and do things, and not talk about it in a way that really smashes people and hurts your ability to minister to that person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. I mean all the outlets we have, jay, all the outlets we have. It's everywhere. Anybody can put their opinion out. But let me ask you this question Is your opinion worth hindering your witness?
Speaker 1:No, if it's not Scripture, it's not worth it.
Speaker 2:Not worth it at all, but yet we are so confident that our opinion matters more than our witness. Yeah, it shows us the spiritual immaturity in the church. Yeah, that you care more about expressing your opinion than actually being a witness to the Jesus of Christ. Let me tell you this when you give your life to Christ, you no longer live for yourself. Yeah, you live for Christ. Scripture says you become an ambassador of Jesus Christ. You are a representative here on earth, and yet you think that your citizenship here is more important than your ambassadorship in the kingdom. Here is more important than your ambassadorship in the kingdom. And we've got to be very, very, very careful on how we are so opinionated in the body of Christ.
Speaker 1:It's people overall, man, because there are people who would rather. You know, paul tells us not to be a stumbling block for other people. Yeah, so, even though you may feel permitted to be, let's just use like have a drink, right, have a drink, however you stand, whatever the case is. But Scripture tells us don't be drunk, be sober-minded, all those things. Don't do anything that's going to cause other people to stumble. So if I'm posting on social media that I'm having a drink and again, I don't drink, but this is an example and I'm posting on there that, hey, I'm double fisting two bottles of wine or whatever, or two beers, whatever the case is right, you are out here and you consider yourself to be a Christian.
Speaker 1:You are creating a stumbling block for one you to be able to witness and minister to people. Is your opinion that you should be able to drink worth your inability to minister to other people? And then if people say, well, that person's drinking or that person's doing this or doing X, y, z, then it must be okay for Christians to do. And then you create a stumbling block for new Christians to be able to stumble over. They keep fighting their own faith and fighting the convictions that the Holy Spirit's laid on them, because they see you living the example in front of them. And so, from the pulpit down to the average everyday believer, we've got to be careful and conscious about how we act and what we okay, what we walk in agreement with, yeah, because if you're walking in agreement with it, then you know yeah.
Speaker 2:If your opinion is going to be divided, then it's not of God, that's right.
Speaker 1:If your opinion is going to create an option for an, a stumbling block for other people, and you shouldn't be sharing your opinion I told our church this sunday, pastor jay, I was just as blunt as I could be.
Speaker 2:If your opinion does not line up with the word of god, keep your mouth shut. Yeah, like you don't. You don't twist the scripture to fit your opinion. Your opinion should line up with the scripture of it and what we read, and you know when we've experienced this this past week when I brought correction to uh, the story I just told, and it just shows how truth will always expose the stain on someone's heart. Uh, based on how we respond. It talks about our, it teaches us about our spiritual maturity. The response that this person gave me was I'm so sorry, mr Perfect, it has nothing to do with. We are called to hold each other righteously accountable.
Speaker 2:It's not about me being perfect. It's that you are forgetting what Scripture says Well, I'm sorry, I'm not as righteous. It's not about being righteous, I'm protecting you. Do you realize that you had? You made a mistake and if nobody corrects the mistake and your witness, you will continue to make those things and you're going to make it around the wrong person. You're going to say the wrong thing to the right person and it's going to hinder you for forever. Yeah, you see, this is what we think it's crazy.
Speaker 2:How hinder you forever. Yeah, you see, this is what we think. It's crazy how we can make one status and thousands of people will see it and knowing that people can say anything about us, we'll still say anything, we'll still cast an opinion and hurt our witness. We think it's just like I can say something to you that is ungodly and I think it's just going to be you, but you know what. You can go make a status and now my whole demeanor, who I am, is tainted now because you have shared what I've shared. Now people change how they look at me. Now my witness is tainted. Now Jesus' life through me is limited. I don't know where we went wrong, man. I don't know where we got to this place.
Speaker 1:It's this culture, man, the culture we live in, and that's the problem is, we're not renewing our minds, we're not growing in Christ. Pastors have allowed people to walk unchecked and it's become a culture. And now the thing is is, if you try to correct somebody now, you're wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, well, well, well, nope, nope, no. Now well, well, well, nope, nope, no. Listen, everybody likes correction until it's time to be corrected. That's right and that's the truth. Man, at the end of the day, we are held accountable by Christ, and your church leaders should be holding and your fellow believers period should be holding you accountable and helping you, not in a way that beats you down but says come on, man, we're better than that.
Speaker 2:I think this is a result, Pastor Jay, if I'm honest, of ministries trying to grow a church rather than make disciples.
Speaker 1:Exactly, that's 100% Exactly what I think the number one problem is. The church is the world. I'll say the US is where it is today because the church has reclosed back into just trying to fill a pool pit or trying to fill a pew and fill pit, or trying to fill a pew and fill the in some churches they call them coffers. Right, trying to fill the tithe and offerings basket instead of holding people accountable.
Speaker 2:We have showed our inability to disciple, and we're seeing this now in the maturity of those that we're leading, and because they've been taught this way or they've been approved this way, now, when truth hits them, they're offended.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's the bait of Satan. It's been working for many, many years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, sadly enough, it will continue.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, there are people who are standing up holding the truth to the standard, and people to the standard it's supposed to be, but there's always going to be people, unfortunately, misrepresenting Christ, which, I'll be honest with you, I heard something recently talking about is taking the Lord's name in vain really cursing, or is it taking on the name of Christ and misrepresenting it Like is that taking the Lord's name in vain? And that's something to think about.
Speaker 2:Yep, absolutely. I think we should always filter things through this. How does my conversation represent Christ? Yeah, am I making my opinion greater than my witness? Like, just pause, before you respond, think about what would Jesus have me to say. Because when you give your life to Christ, you become an ambassador, you become a representative, and we have a bunch of poor representatives of Jesus Christ in the church today because we have diluted truth for the sake of numbers and money. Jesus isn't coming to the biggest church, he's not coming to the most funded church. He's coming to a church without spot or wrinkle or blemish. And we've got to start preaching truth, not our opinion. We've got to start bringing truth, not our opinion, in our everyday conversations.
Speaker 1:And if you go to a church and listen I'm just going to be honest with you and the pastor never corrects you, never preaches against sin. If it's always cupcakes and rainbows, you might need to find another church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you no longer live for yourself. You no longer live for your dreams, your own ambitions, your own will, for thy will be done. In my life, god, whatever that means. In my conversations, in my career, in my decisions, thy will be done. I am a representative of you. Now, that's what we have to do. You should filter your decisions through the lens of what would Jesus have me do and what would Jesus have me say in these moments and situations that I'm facing Right, amen, amen, I'm going to shut up, I'm done.
Speaker 1:Well, you know listen, you're right, man, when it comes to politics, man, honestly, there are some people who I didn't unfriend but I unfollowed on social media because I'm just like, come on, man, like the way, and I'll be honest, there are some pastors I unfollowed and unfriended, yeah, because I'm like they are not. They're obviously they care more about themselves than they do the gospel they represent, yeah, and so you know what's crazy Pastor Jay is.
Speaker 2:when this season comes, it always exposes the heart of people.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, listen, man, in law enforcement you know what you got when mess gets tough, when things get hard, when you get into the middle of a hard situation, there will be those who cut and run and those who stay and fight, and you will be able to see character when pressure is applied, character shows. And so it's the same way in the church, man. It's like in those in the end times. Man, we just come off a series in end times. I encourage you to go back and watch it and listen to it so you can be knowledgeable on what the end time prophecy looks like. But in the end times, some people will have to give their life for their faith. Yeah, and you can say you believe in Jesus all day, until a gun's pointed in your face, that's right or until your neck's on the line.
Speaker 1:Quote unquote. You know for your faith. Where are you going to stand that when it really gets hard?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's that. You know. If you deny me before your friends, I'll deny you before my father. That's right.
Speaker 2:Yep, our heart for this episode is to teach some sort of accountability for fellow Christians. Fellow leaders, we want you to follow Scripture, be truthful, stand on the Word of God. Don't waver just because of what the world's doing. Don't become a trend, don't create new trends. A church that preaches the truth. I've said this before the New Testament church grew from 3,000 to 5,000. People being added daily because they preached the truth. They didn't sugarcoat anything.
Speaker 2:It was the truth, repent Sin no more. Be baptized. In the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit, go Be the hands and the feet of Jesus. This is what the gospel is. This is the gospel that changes lives forever. Be encouraged. Wherever you are, you have an opportunity to represent Christ and do it well. Be convicted, look through the lens of Jesus Christ as you do it. We thank you so much for listening. Pastor Jay, if you're done, I'm going to bless them. Go ahead and bless them brother.
Speaker 2:All right. Number six 24-26. We always do this at the end of our podcast. It says this the Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift his countenance on you and give you his peace. We love you. We thank you so much. Share this with somebody who needs this encouragement to grow in Christ. We'll see you here next time. Pastor to Pastor.
Speaker 1:God bless you. We'll see you soon.
