Pastor to Pastor
This podcast is dedicated to iron sharpening iron, current events, and culture trends. You will hear pastors perspectives on a variety of topics including leadership development, evangelism, outreach and so much more.
Pastor to Pastor
Tug-of-War: Spirit vs. Flesh
What if the battle between flesh and spirit is the most defining struggle of your life? In our latest episode, we invite you to explore this profound question as we recount a series of soul-stirring events within our church community. We've witnessed seven impactful transformations as individuals chose the path of salvation, symbolized through their acts of discarding old vices like cigarettes, vapes, and alcohol. Through the inspiring lens of Apostle Paul's teachings in Romans and Galatians, we discuss the ongoing tug-of-war between the desires of the flesh and the freedom of living by the Spirit. Join us in celebrating the beauty of embracing a holy and authentic life, guided by Jesus Christ's example.
Listen to a compelling personal story that highlights the dangers of lukewarm faith and the powerful shift that occurs with true surrender to Christ. Our conversation challenges societal misconceptions about Christianity, emphasizing that spiritual transformation goes beyond mere labels. We delve into the necessity of maturing in faith, urging believers to move from spiritual milk to meat, and align their lives with the Word of God, as outlined in Romans 8. With metaphors like tug-of-war and A-frame ladders, we unpack the importance of choosing a life led by the Spirit, free from the constraints of the law, and embracing the fullness of spiritual freedom.
hey, you know what time it is.
Speaker 2:It's time for another episode pastor to pastor, that's right, you keep trying to get me with these openings.
Speaker 1:I just keep trying to change it up a little bit, because I don't want you stuck in a rut you know what time it is I want you to do something a little different. So so here we are, man, another episode of Pastor to Pastor, look, and we are focused on kind of recapping what our sermons have been like. So listen, man, let's talk about what you gave to the people this past Sunday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, we had an amazing service today. I will tell you. We ended service with seven salvations bro.
Speaker 1:Bro, that is worth running around.
Speaker 2:Hold my mic, come on somebody, yeah take two laps around yeah, let me run around yeah, man, it was just this beautiful thing and I'll talk about what led people to to make that decision here in just a minute. And you know, last sunday we had people bringing cigarettes and vapes. I had messages of people who poured out their alcohol at home that day and, uh, you know, today we had somebody to step and break break on their fate man, I love it and god's doing some amazing things.
Speaker 2:Um, this series and a collection of talks that we're in on divided loyalty, man is really just getting us back to the standard, yeah, the standard of holiness. Uh, you know, I told my dad yesterday we were on the way to the Carolina game, guitar Hills First, I know.
Speaker 1:You're my friend, you support me, okay, okay, I support you, but I can't support you in your sin.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, son, but you know, these old school fashions are so stupid. Oh wow, these old school fashions are coming out. Everything that's from the back in the day is kind of resurfacing. Still, I said, you know, what we really need to do is bring back holiness. Everything else is coming back.
Speaker 1:We need to bring back holiness. You gave them the holiness lesson.
Speaker 2:You know my daddy, he ate that up.
Speaker 1:He's like you know what. He's back real good.
Speaker 2:But you know, this is about standard, getting the church where they need to be. If we're ever going to win the loss, we need to be truly authentic to who we're supposed to be, and today we talked about um, our divided loyalty between the flesh and the spirit. Now I'm not going to read all the scriptures, because they were really long. We did romans, chapter 8, 1 for 1 through 14, and we did one that a lot of people know as galatians 5, where it talks about the fruit of the flesh and then the fruits of the spirit and, um, you know, I used used a rope with some tug-of-war just to open up the sermon they're trying to give.
Speaker 2:Because this passage of Scripture that Paul is talking about in Romans 8, he says that the Spirit and the flesh I'm sorry, galatians, that the Spirit and the flesh are contrary to one another right, they're always fighting. The flesh is pulling you one way, the Spirit is pulling you away. So I stood in the middle. I had somebody represent the flesh, somebody represent the spirit, and it's a constant tug of war between what way am I going to go? I know I want to do right, but my flesh is also enticing me to do what is not right and what is not holy. And so we set this up. And to truly understand the battle that Paul was trying to get us to understand, you have to really go back to Romans 7. Romans 7 is where Paul is talking about I want to do what's right, but I don't. What a wretched man I am. Yeah, and I don't want to do what's wrong, but I still end up doing it. And he's talking about this battle of the flesh. And toward the latter part of that section of Romans 7, he says how miserable I am who will free me from this misery? He says thank God, it is Jesus Christ. And I broke this down. I said you know to really understand Romans 7, what Paul is teaching here, you, you got to look at Romans 8.
Speaker 2:You got to look at the early chapters of Galatians where Paul is talking about the law. This is not Paul saying. He's actually talking about his old self. And we'll take this. You know what?
Speaker 2:Paul struggled with his flesh. I struggled with my flesh. I'm with good company. If he wrote the New Testament and God used him, I can use me in my flesh.
Speaker 2:But Paul's saying no, no, no. Before Christ sent his spirit, before he died, I could not do it by myself. He even brings up the law of Moses. I was subject to the law. Without the spirit I couldn't accomplish it, he said. But thank God, my deliverer is Jesus Christ. I no longer have to toil with my flesh anymore. The sinful nature is not. I'm not dominated by my sinful nature is what he says anymore. And that's not an excuse. It's to show you the glory behind and the easiness of life when you follow the Spirit. Yeah, and so you have to look at Romans 8. You have to look at all the chapters in Galatians where he's trying to get the Israelites, the people, to understand why you cannot live by the law. The law was good in its time, but Jesus came to make life a lot easier for us. Now we know why the law was here. He gave us 613 laws because we asked for the law.
Speaker 1:I thought it was just 10.
Speaker 2:Lord, Lord.
Speaker 1:We can't even keep 10.
Speaker 2:Right, but you know the law of the Mosaic law, the law of Moses we asked for if you go back and study. We asked for the law Right Because we wanted parameters. We needed to know the boundaries to go to make God happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so they asked for more, so it ends up being 613. There's two reasons why God gave us the law, and it is one because we asked for it, but two he needed to show us that without Jesus Christ, we can never please him. Without the Spirit, we'll never please him. And so and here's the kicker to break one is to break them all. So, like I said, we can't even hold 10 of them, you think we're going to not break 613?.
Speaker 2:And so Paul says but thank God, who would take me from this misery? Thank God, it's Jesus Christ. And he talks about the reality. And so we looked at Paul and his journey of fighting the flesh and thanking God for the Spirit, and it's just a beautiful thing that Paul said who's going to save me from this miserable, miserable life? I'm in misery right now. I don't know about you, but when I am in misery it's because of myself. The one thing that I hate the most is myself, my flesh, but you, when I fail, God.
Speaker 1:I'm miserable, like you said. That's where Paul is like that I want to do, or I should do, I don't do. And what I don't want to do, I do. And his reflection is what a wretched man am.
Speaker 2:I right, yeah, there's nothing worse than telling God I promise you I'm never doing this again, please forgive me. And two weeks later you're back in the same place. It's like God, I just feel so unworthy man, I just feel like and you know, there's so many times I feel like Paul where he says, man, it's better for me, I would rather for Christ to come take me. You know, I'd rather for him to come get me, but it's better for me if I stay and share the gospel. That's where I'm at. I'm here for my wife, my son, this church and the reach to lost. Everything else doesn't matter, just share the gospel and bring heaven here on earth. And so we continue to talk about that and the flesh.
Speaker 2:And I had a friend of mine that I grew up with. Well, he's much older than me, but at my home church, springfield Shout out to Springfield Church of God in Laurier Hill. His name's Jeff Oxendine. He wouldn't mind me sharing this story and years ago he probably don't remember telling me, but years ago he told me his salvation story he used to cuss like a sailor.
Speaker 2:He's one of those people that every other word was a cuss word and he said he got saved one sunday and went to church, I mean, and went back to work and he hit his, his thumb, with a hammer at work on accident. He said all I could do was laugh because I said a word I never said before and it was ouch. He said that was not the four-letter word that I'm used to saying when I hurt myself.
Speaker 2:And it's amazing how God just immediately changed him. And that's what Christ does. When we come in contact with him and truly surrender to him, we'll see immediate results. I think a lot of people use this sanctification thing as a crutch to be able to live in sin, to be able to satisfy the flesh while saying I'm pursuing christ, right. And what happens is, when you think that you can satisfy your flesh while pursuing christ, you're really stuck in the middle. Just think about me in the middle with that tug of war. You're not committing to either one. You're not committing to your flesh, you're not committed to your spirit. So you're stuck in the middle and you have no growth. Right? And can I be honest with you? Being stuck in the middle and you have no growth? And can I be honest with you being stuck in the middle between pursuing flesh and the Spirit? You will go to hell. That is not the way to the Father. No sin, as you look at Galatians, the sins that you commit, you will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Speaker 1:Oh, so I can't just sleep around with people I'm not married with.
Speaker 2:Heck, no I can't lie.
Speaker 1:What about even if it's a little white lie?
Speaker 2:Well, let me just say this, bro. I'll use this story and I said listen, there's no such thing as have to save people. Like you know, it doesn't take God three years to free you from something that you knew he needed to free you from from day one. The reason why you stay bounded in the same mess and in the same problems, battling the same issues, is because you would rather stay stuck. Have a little bit of jesus and a little bit of your flesh, and the bible says this. He says you better be hot or cold, but if you're lukewarm, I'm going to spit you out my mouth. If you're stuck in the middle, you find yourself right, god's going to spit you out his mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we, we really broke this thing down of not being stuck in the middle. What Paul is teaching us, to really really start pursuing the spirit and having the fruit of the spirit come out. Because you know, how do you know if you're chasing the flesh or chasing your spirit? By the fruit you produce. The fruit you produce will tell on you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so go ahead. It's kind of like this too. I remember seeing this illustration. I thought, man, I'm going to steal this as soon as I get to the right sermon. But I remember this pastor. He took these two A-frame ladders and so he put them together and he said it's kind of easy when you first start out to step on one step on the other, step on one step on the other, but the further up you go, the closer to God you get. You have to make a decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Am I going to follow the flesh or am I going to follow the spirit? And so, yeah, you can't cling between two ladders. It only gets you so far. But God has called us to not be lukewarm, to jump all, to burn the ship, and I'm going to talk about. Burn the boat, burn the ship, talk about that. I'm going to talk about that in my podcast, or in the one talking about my sermon, because I touched on that today too so we're right in the same vein together.
Speaker 1:But you have to choose. Do I want to grow physically or do I want to grow spiritually? And if you're a son of God, if you're a daughter of God, a daughter of the king, then you need to be On the spirit train.
Speaker 1:You need to be growing in the spirit and maturing in the spirit. Even Paul said when he was talking about something he was like I wish you could all eat meat, but you're still drinking milk Because you ain't ready for meat yet. And there comes a point in our lives when we got to stop drinking the milk and start eating on the meat.
Speaker 2:That's right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I won't steal your sermon.
Speaker 2:I'm preaching for me. You know there is a thing that Paul teaches us with the spirit and the flesh. And you know we live in a society where Romans 7 talks about the flesh and then Romans 8 really unifies the body. When you really look at it, paul was teaching us what a Christian is. It's a person that's led by the Spirit. It's a person that life is aligned with the Word of God. He breaks it down in Romans 8. Please go read Romans 8. It is beautifully written for the Christian to be encouraged on the way of life.
Speaker 2:And the problem is that the world, this society we live in, has their own definitions of what a Christian is. They think a Christian is someone that goes to church or someone that can worship, or someone that's generous, or maybe it's a good person. And we've we've created this thing. And this is the trouble this might ruffle some feathers for people who want to live in the middle is you cannot slap Christian in front of your sin and think that you're okay, right. So let me just say it this way there's no such thing as a gay christian. There's no such thing as a racist christian, a gossiping christian, a lying christian. Do you look at the rome adulation's father. No such thing as a drunk christian. You cannot slap christian or christ on something that is sinful and think that you're okay. What you need to do is slap the blood on it and be set free from it, right, not live in it.
Speaker 2:And paul is teaching us that there's only one way to the Father and it's through the Son. And he's coming for a spotless bride a spotless bride. And so we really dealt with that today and I came back at the end of the message and I came back to the tug-of-war visual and I came to the middle and I had the Spirit on one side and the flesh on another, the tug-of-war visual. And I came to the middle and I had the Spirit on one side and the flesh on another and I said if you want to get unstuck, you have to feed the Spirit and you can get unstuck either way. You can just go straight to the flesh and it's going to lead. One leads to, the Bible says, as Paul says, it leads to separation from God and destruction. And then the spirit leads to life and peace.
Speaker 1:So you choose which one you want. Choose this day who you'll serve. But I thought once I would always say the fruit that you produce they know you by the fruit you bear.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, you know you don't have to question if somebody's saved. Just look at their fruit right that's why I can't remember who it was my ben cs lewis. He said this preach the gospel always and sometimes use words.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely Our life is the gospel and that will testify if you truly are saved Right. And so I said look, if you want to get unstuck and you want life and peace, this is how you do that. And so I called different people to come up and come help me. On the spirit side, I said I've got some accountability coming. I've got some accountability coming, I've got Bible study coming, I've got the word coming, I've got a prayer life coming in and I've got a church that I'm connected to and then I'm serving and I've got a whole group of people on my spirit side. And now I just got this one thing on the flesh and that's that little sinful nature that likes to try to creep in. But when before it was just a tug-of-war bounced me, but this, when the flesh would try to pull me, I had the spirit fighting for me and it couldn't even move me. Matter of fact, it was a beautiful thing. I didn't plan it, man, it was. It was amazing, the spirit. They got real happy they got real happy.
Speaker 1:These men got rabid.
Speaker 2:They pulled and they yanked the flesh away from even gripping on to me it was just a beautiful representation of how god will help you.
Speaker 2:God the spirit will lead you, he'll guide you. You just got to submit to it and, man, we just prayed. I said, hey, if you, if you feel like you're stuck in the middle, you know there's some things, that attitude, those things that you got to deal with. And, uh, I, I know I talked about cussing. Like you know, cussing shouldn't come out of it because cussing shouldn't be in you. And I had a little little joke you know that I used.
Speaker 2:You know some people are trying to be sane in that sinful nature, trying to come up. You know when you stump your toe and you want to say that thing.
Speaker 2:You always say you know what I'm saying. Like, for your glory, you start worshiping or you strop something heavy on your foot and you're like Mother Mary, did you know? So we talked about that, but really I ended it. God just really graced the ending of this message. Man, I said, if you're stuck in the middle and you know, and I'm telling you that this leads to sin, sin will lead you to hell. If you're stuck in the middle and you're comfortable there, you're lukewarm and you're going to go to hell.
Speaker 2:When Christ comes back and he's coming back soon. If you want to be set free and you want to start pursuing the things of the Spirit and really be a person that produces fruit, you've got to come, you've got to let God really take and clean you out. Man, it was a beautiful thing. Seven people came, gave their life to Christ. God was still moving after service. I wasn't even involved in it and I got pictures of people breaking their vape and stuff. It was a beautiful thing and God really moved, man. Man, I'm telling you god's coming back for a spotless bride and we gotta start preaching sermons that are not about growing numbers and getting money, but it's about winning souls, man, that's where we at that's it.
Speaker 1:Gotta be challenging and uh gotta be, growing and yeah, that's beautiful, yeah, absolutely seven salvations, though seven it was.
Speaker 2:It was amazing. That's great, crazy, but that's my sermon and and I'm sticking to it. Divine and divine in the Lord. And so, hey, we're going to bless you good.
Speaker 1:I'm going to bless you with a priestly blessing.
Speaker 2:In Dumbbells, chapter 6, it says May the Lord bless you and protect you. May the Lord smile on you and be gracious to you. May the Lord show you his favor and give you peace. Hey, thank you so much for catching this episode. We hope that it's blessed you and we'll see you right here for next time for Pastor Jay's sermon review. You all right over there? Yeah, I don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:We'll catch you next time, guys. God bless you.
