Is Trauma Holding You Back? Can One Healing Prayer Really Set You Free? With Pastor Randy Burns

In this deeply moving episode of Coffee Chat, hosts Lisa and Amber welcome their first-ever male guest, Pastor Randy Burns. With over 37 years of pastoral ministry experience and 26 years as a professional counselor, Randy brings profound insights into understanding trauma, the healing process, and how faith intersects with mental health. This conversation moves beyond theory when Randy leads Amber through a powerful healing prayer experience, demonstrating how God's presence can bring refreshment, clarity, and restoration. Whether you're carrying your own wounds or supporting loved ones through theirs, this episode offers practical wisdom for the journey toward wholeness.

Chapter Notes:

1. Introduction to Randy Burns (0:00-5:00)
   • Randy Burns joins as the podcast's first male guest
   • Background in pastoral ministry (37 years) and counseling (26 years)
   • Brief personal history on Randy's education and calling
2. Understanding Trauma (5:00-15:00)
   • Defining trauma as emotional overload, crushed spirit, or brokenness
   • How trauma can be experienced directly or witnessed
   • The impact of religious trauma and church experiences
   • How unresolved trauma shapes our perception of God
3. Sin as a Symptom (15:00-22:00)
   • Looking beyond behaviors to underlying needs and wounds
   • Ministry in challenging environments
   • Creating safe spaces in church communities
4. The Healing Journey (22:00-32:00)
   • Healing as a non-linear, layered process
   • The birthday party analogy - God addressing each stage of life
   • How sensory triggers connect to past trauma
   • Knowing when you're ready to address past wounds
5. Ministry with Unresolved Trauma (32:00-40:00)
   • Can wounded people effectively minister to others?
   • Setting healthy boundaries in helping relationships
   • Self-care practices for those in ministry
   • The "not the lifeguard on duty" principle
6. Healing Prayer Experience (40:00-60:00)
   • Randy guides Amber through a healing prayer session
   • Grounding techniques and becoming present
   • Creating space to hear God speak to specific needs
   • Amber's personal revelation and emotional release
7. Closing Reflections (60:00-66:00)
   • Simplified steps for healing prayer
   • The importance of having others walk with us through trauma
   • Daily refreshment through God's presence
   • Contact information and wrap-up

Guest Bio: Randy Burns has served in pastoral ministry for 37 years and counseling for 26 years. He holds a master's degree in pastoral counseling and is a minister in one of Kansas City's most challenging neighborhoods. Randy brings a unique perspective on healing, combining professional expertise with personal experience and spiritual wisdom. Have Questions? Email Pastor Randy at leerb7@gmail.com. 

Thank you for taking the time to like, subscribe, share, and comment. Visit leadingladies.life to find out more. Also, follow @leadingladieslife on social. Amber & Lisa are authors of the multi-award-winning book, Leading Ladies: Discover Your God-Grown Strategy for Success, which dives into the power of community and empowering women of faith to rise up and make a difference, using our gifts and faith to shine brightly in the world. Watch the Facebook Live edition on our YouTube Channel @coffeechatladies .

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Good morning. We are here. For another coffee chat with Amber and Lisa. Hello. Pleased to have mr. Lisa Burns on the podcast. I don't think anybody's ever called you that.

No. Yeah. No, we are very, I'm very, I'm Lisa's husband. Yes, that's right. It's funny, we joke about that all the time because women are always I'm mom, or she's mom, or that's Pastor Randy's wife or, but yes, now you are. No, I excited that you're here with us to record this.

For everyone that is tuning in, you are listening to coffee chat history. Randy Burns, right? My beloved is the first ever male guest that we have interviewed. On the podcast. Yeah. This is a big initiation. It's a big round of applause for Randy. You get to come into the girls' [00:01:00] room and wait a minute.

No. We don't go into the women's room. He is here by invitation. Joining us today. Once again, lemme clarify. Pastor Randy is not in the women's room. Thank you very much. Yes. And we're so glad that you are here today and Yes. That you are willing to subject yourself to an hour long with being interrogated by two women.

Let alone your wife and her. Crazy bestie friends. Yeah. We love Randy here. And while we're at it, everybody has their drinks. I have my tea, I have my ice water. And Randy. I have ice water. Ice water. And, but you have a Chief's ice water. Is that the Chief's Ice water?

It's a Kansas City Pretend Chiefs Kansas City.

A dear suite friend from church gave me this Kansas City Chief's pen for Valentine's Day. And which one? I have been taking [00:02:00] notes with it this morning. Yeah. Did take, and I have my chief's jacket. There you go. I think we're in a chief's formal attire right here. Considering the draft is going on and true, you can bring that out.

Yes, we can bring that out. I should have, I didn't get the memo about the chief stuff. That's okay. That's all right. So for those that don't recognize Randy, he usually resembles year round for many years now this jolly old elf we know is Santa Claus. He usually has a full beard, and he decided to surprise me Easter morning.

Totally. Yeah. Bare faced for the first time in how many years, honey? 25. 25. Question 25. Probably 25 now. He's had it shorter through the years, but there's always been facial hair, so mustache, goatee. I've probably, I've had a mustache since we met, probably college. I, wow. If you could call it that. It was just a shadow.

A little fuzzy caterpillar under my nose. Oh but now look at him. Look at him. Yeah. That's cool. Now what is it? Is this, what is it? Bare what? You're bare face creative, right? So Yeah. Yeah. Bare [00:03:00] face, girl. Yeah I'm a bare face dude. It's to feel totally naked here. I'm getting used to.

Yeah. That, that is a bit crazy. And I should have put on the zoom filter with the beer, just to make up for the lack of facial hair in this. Amber does have zoom filters. I haven't figured that out. Okay. I just put real makeup on. Yeah. Now that we've talked about all of that, we're going to get down to business.

We have serious conversation to have. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It is an honor and a privilege to be here with you, and then also as the first dude. Into this arena. I'm humbled and honored to be among the beautiful, leading ladies. That's right. Randy I have had a front row seat for many years front row seat watching, as God has used you and your gifts for the church body as a whole.

I've watched you as God has used you to minister to [00:04:00] literally thousands of people through the years, families and individuals. And you are you are a pastor, a minister by trade. You, we met at Bible college. And after a few years of youth ministry, you felt God urging you to go back to school.

And We did. We packed up our little family and we moved to Ohio and Randy received his degree, his master's degree in pastoral counseling. And before we knew it, we were back home in Kansas City. And Randy was on staff at the church that I had attended as a teenager, as a college woman. And so God has been using you for how many years in pastoral ministry?

Well, pastoral ministry or counseling, but pastoral ministry. Probably since what, like 88? 1988. That's a long time. So about as long as we've been married. 37 years. 37 years married [00:05:00] and 37 years in, in pastoral ministry. And then counseling you, you began to do that pretty much full-time on staff in 90 99.

99, yeah. So that's going, it'll be 26 years this summer. Yeah. Wow. So while you took me back, I'm an old dude. I'm old school now. So you are I don't know that you're old school. I don't know that you and I ever play old school very well. But I do know that as God has allowed you the honor of it is an honor to serve his church and to serve people as God has allowed that.

I know that when it has come to counseling, you have been able to see God do some really miraculous things in individual's lives. And it hasn't mattered whether they were. Young or old or male or female or every different ethnicity under Oh yeah, the sun or whether or not they were churched or unchurched God has allowed you to bring healing to them.

And so we wanted you to [00:06:00] talk to us today. Amber was so awesome to say, Hey, would Randy do this? Yeah. I, when it comes to, we all have, I know, I speak about it a lot. And we, we always the issues of the things that have impacted us that we, that actually turn for the good and those, they create forever imprints in our lives.

Randy, I just give us some insight. Onto what the word trauma means, or, oh, my. Okay. How that affects people. What is trauma? Yeah. What is trauma? Wow. Yeah. That's a deep thing. I, first of all, I'm just gonna speak, from my experience in that experience in those decades doesn't make me an expert, but just someone who's seen a lot of people and do the few things I do and learn to, again, for privilege and honor to, to help others.

But trauma really, I like using the language that church, churches use or Christians use is just being overwhelmed or a crushed [00:07:00] spirit or broken hearted. It would be those kind of words that you would hear, but for the most part emotional overload because of a circumstance, a situation, an event that.

You've either experienced yourself or you've observed another person go through you. You can be traumatized by seeing someone you love or even don't know, go through a traumatic experience, a crisis, an accident something suddenly tragic violence and even in sexual, in nature. Yeah, it's, it is those imprints and we don't realize actually what causes us to react to certain things because there is even traumatic things that we endure just by hearing about it, or this happened next door or and all of a sudden we bring ourselves into that place.

And it, I find it very like almost extreme [00:08:00] empathy. So you take on what is happening. Yeah. Fold it inside of yourself, right? Yeah. And it's amazing that it's, things like that happen, but, these happen over the years. How do we keep trauma from being life controlling in our lives? Because I know that's a significant thing even for me on a daily basis.

Yeah. Yeah. And just to speak to that is I knew I needed help. I was someone struggling, battling and it just so happened, I needed counseling and it was gonna cost a certain amount of money, and I thought, Hey, why don't I just go get a degree and counseling help at the same time? Packed up the kids, the wife and went and pursued that 'cause just hearing a a guy that was a counselor.

He was, he's a trailblazer in this field. Like man, he seems to have a lot of answers that like, just praying, reading your Bible and going to church didn't seem to fix. Now those are all very important [00:09:00] things, but I know for me in my life, there were things that, that didn't seem to fix and so had to pursue something more, something different.

And it was healing through good behavioral science and as well just Christian principles in there integrated. So that's what helped me. So trauma it doesn't affect impact us. It can change us in the way that we look at life, look at others and in most part, even experience God.

So we can be shut down. We can have emotional overreaction and those are all kind of signs and symptoms that. That, yeah, you might need a little more help than you should. And then sometimes it's a, you said something earlier that because we have been minimized, put down and validated that we have an empathetic response to somebody else because we weren't allowed to have that on our own.

And [00:10:00] so we have this huge emotional response because we're not allowed to have that, but we somewhat see someone in a similar situation. We have such great empathy. Yeah. That wow. I can feel what they feel, but 'cause we weren't allowed to feel what we needed to feel. And that's a, that is so true because I go back even to my childhood where my father, who was a Christian man, he worked for the church, but he had a very bad anger issue.

Which was. Built in him over having an abusive abusive father who was an alcoholic. And he went through some strange, he went through some extreme trauma he was shot at by his dad. And he came into our childhood. He came into and had five kids and he was Christian and all the time, but Christian and very angry and very abusive in that.

And almost to the point of justifying it because he was trying to get, keep us on the strong straight path. But [00:11:00] then when I noticed even myself coming forward and not wanting to be that person and then seeing those same traits come out. What is that we wanna change, but it's so hard, not so hard to get there.

It's so hard, as I said, to find healing. But we find ourselves going back into the same patterns that we actually despise. I think it's important too, to think about, you're talking about your dad and you're talking about how many years ago? Yeah. You're talking about the traumas that he experienced at a time when the church wasn't always willing and open to counseling or even understanding psychological, mental situations.

We would sometimes call them things that, thank goodness we don't anymore. We would even go so far as to say they were demonic people who went through these kind of strongholds and that people needed to be delivered. And I'm not saying. I know this is a touchy subject. I'm not saying that there aren't [00:12:00] moments where those are needs for deliverance.

However, mental illness has a whole lot more to do with the wounds that have we've incurred or with our chemistry in our body, things that are beyond our control. And so today, if your dad were here today Yeah. And you were being raised as a child today we would hope that there would be less stigma Yeah.

To getting help. But he was walking at a time when there was a stigma, not just within the church, in society. Yeah. And he was told not to. Yeah. He was told he needed to pray through it. He was told he needed to not take medicine. And that caused. Even trauma associated with the church people, right?

Absolutely religious. That religious trauma that we experience when we have to take the pain that we have and throw it under the rug, even in a Christian setting just to be [00:13:00] accepted. So Randy, I actually, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that is how can we truly receive healing in church where we feel like sometimes we have to wear the mask?

And how do you help people in these types of situations feel that they can find healing? Yeah, so that's, a passion of mine, but typically it has to take place. In, in my office, in that space where there is healing, I. And most people haven't experienced genuine compassion, genuine understanding.

Not nonjudgmental space where they can share anything they want with, without expectation, without, using scripture as a bandaid. Or even quote unquote Jesus as a bandaid for the wounds in their life. So it's, you just go about creating a safe space to do that. And then as well, from any teaching or any pulpit activity is just validating people's experiences, bringing some real truth to the situation that it's okay to be broken.

In fact, [00:14:00] God specializes in, in using broken individuals, the unlikely for so many situations. And yeah just bringing that to the light. And knowing this, that many times people have. Not an accurate view of who God is. And that comes from, unresolved trauma in past and people have taken God and his image who he is and misrepresented him.

And so I talk a lot of times about the true Lord Jesus Christ who is God really? And a lot of times we have to help people overcome their idea of who God is. Because of the bad experiences that they've had with in church and with church people. How do you deal with people who say, like they keep doing the same things and you just want to tell 'em to stop that situation or stop if you would just not do this because this is sin, and then you would, because how do you deal with that?

Because I'm curious to know as a church professional counselor. Sin is just the [00:15:00] symptom. And so what you have to look at, okay, so why is this person, what is the need that's being met in this activity, whatever it may or may not be.

And don't just label the person as a sinner or by what they're doing, the symptom. There's a reason and a cause and just it's not authentic. It's the thing that the enemy uses to help meet a genuine need in the person's life. And so always go back to look at the need and maybe why this person is doing it.

And usually it's sometimes it's a substance. We all use something to deal with the pain. And what's the wound? What's the hurt? What's the pain? Let's look at that. Let's not look at the symptom. And let's not judge you because of that and what that's about. And also help people understand that's not what God is looking at.

He understands the why and let's get to the why. And that let's bring God to that point in your life to where that may be, where that began. Or if you're ready and open to that, or maybe the journey along the way that helped reinforce whatever the, this behavior or substance that someone's [00:16:00] using to medicate the pain in their life.

You are in a very unique place in Kansas City where you minister, what the most, isn't it the most dangerous? Zip code or one of the most dangerous zip codes it, it has popped into that we've made in the top, we've made it into the top 10, just often just 1, 1, 1 zip code away from where our church is, which is, it's a privilege and honor to be where we are.

And that's due to the vision that the westlakes have had to stay in the city and not move to Yeah. Safer places. So yeah, we are, we're just one zip code away. I think. I think maybe we have popped into it a couple of times. Yeah. Since we've lived here. It may not be there currently, but we have So the people you're dealing with have come out of some of the people you're dealing with have come out of some really Oh yeah.

Really. Like they've seen murders and they've been in gangs and I'm assuming all of these things. And is it easier to minister in a place where. Or you expect the people who are coming out of that area to have, be dealing with har hard life issues like that, or, it's not really easier because to, we're talking about survival.

You [00:17:00] have to be tough. You have to be strong to survive in that area. And so it really takes a an opportunity, an openness for a person to come in and to seek help. Because if you seek help, you're weak. So it's not necessarily easier. Sometimes it's culturally considered culturally weakness.

Yeah. Then how does one, find healing if they're going back into an area or going back into their home life that is in the middle of. Trauma. That's hard. That is, I can imagine what kind of situations that you Oh my goodness.

Yeah. Yeah. And I love our church family. I love our pastors be because coming to our church, we're creating a safe space, right? For people to be, and our theme is we are family. And so we can be the safe family. We can be the safe place for you just to be who you need to be. We're not out here to fix you, to change.

You make you be like us. We're gonna meet you where you are, and we [00:18:00] want to show you the real Jesus in a real, tangible way. And come to this space where you know that it's safe and we can be your family knowing that when you head, as our pastor says, we know that once you head out these doors, it, everything that we talked about, everything you felt in here might go away, but just take a little bit of it with you.

Yeah. And take some healing with you. Yeah. I know a lot of times safety with you. A lot of times when I was growing up, I, I would blame my mother and say, why didn't you just get out of this? And I, there is a lot of, there is a lot of that where you are and and a lot of blame that can be cast in the direction of the victim.

How, what does healing look like in those situations? Oh wow. Look like in general, yeah. Healing. It's layered. I think it's a journey. For the most part, Jesus, God wants to take you by the hand. And I usually say it this way. Let's imagine that if you were a kid in your whole life, you never celebrated a [00:19:00] birthday.

And you're 40 years old. And I think what the church expect expects now is that you're 40 years old and you've never had a party. And now what church has done in the past is, okay, we're gonna give you a birthday party and we're gonna, we're gonna roll it all into one and happy birthday. Wow. And that person is overwhelmed 'cause they never know what a birthday is.

But what I think healing is Jesus says no. Wait what you needed when you were one years old. Let's go back and we're gonna give you your 1-year-old birthday party and everything you needed in that moment, we'll do for you 2-year-old birthday party. We're gonna give you everything you needed when you were two.

And so let's give you that. And that's something I personally, I. Experience. That's the way I explain my healing. It's a journey. There are things that I did not get, and there are things that happened to me at certain stages in my life and the healing was, is that Jesus went with me to visit me, visit with me in those spaces, and the wounds and the things I [00:20:00] received, he gave me real truth to let me know he was there.

And he made up for what happened to me. And he was very sad. And he was sorry for what had happened to me there. And he sat with me in it to give me what I needed and also to bind up the broken heart that took place there, the overwhelmed feelings. And so every birthday that you missed, everything that happened to you, God cares about.

And he's not just gonna throw you one birthday party, right? He's gonna make up for everything that you missed and be with the universe. So it's layered and it's not as we were talking earlier, it's not linear. It's many times it's circular and, and you may visit different places at different times, but he, his job is, as the Bible says, he began a good work in you.

Is faithful to complete it. Yeah. And what you're available to, to be open to and to receive. He doesn't want to re-traumatize you. He doesn't take you to the very worst things in your life. And that's what I've [00:21:00] experienced with people. It's minor things where you can earn, he earns your trust.

Yeah. And you only open your heart to a certain extent. And he's very kind and calm very sensitive to where you are and what you are and where and will take you on a journey and maybe not be the worst things that, the core issues that need to be dealt with. But some of the other ones that he builds that trust with you.

I like how you describe that in that when we come to Christ and yes we're talking about, maybe the setting that, that you serve in, but across the board humanity period, all of us walk in a lot of woundedness and pain just being alive. Things have happened even for those who grow up in the most model of loving homes, has experienced things that deeply impact them and they carry it on with them forever.

But I love how you just said it. It's, yes, it's great. You come to know Jesus and it's this big wonderful, it's like [00:22:00] you're finally getting this birthday party, but God is so good. He doesn't just stop at throwing you the best only birthday. He allows you to go back should you be willing. Address those situations from your past, those things that happened when you were one, when you were five, when you were 13?

That never, in that moment of salvation, yes, there are moments where boom, so much is washed away and we know people who there are automatic healings from things, but most of us live in a space where it's a gradual a gradual growth and a gradual opening up of those areas that maybe we've been carrying hurts and wounds for so long.

God loves us that much, that he will go back and address all of that if we allow him. I like that. I when Randy, when you gave me that picture of, trauma even happening at one in your, you know, 50 and going back [00:23:00] and opening that up and I think that's probably. Where counseling and what you do in healing and heal healing prayer is why it's so powerful and effective in what is happening.

Is that a greater part of what you do in your counseling, is bringing people back to those moments and letting them resolve those individual healing moments? Yeah, I am, my approach in the healing prayer is that I'm not the expert. I let God and that person be the expert, and whatever they're experiencing it for a reason.

And so whatever they're bringing into the room, whatever they're bringing in today, that's what we talk about. And and letting the Holy Spirit, God's presence and then I'm taking that person, wherever they are, I. Not just assuming my experience of who God is theirs experience of who God is, right?

So I'm trying to be Jesus with skin on, so they're getting grace, love, compassion, listening, presence and trying to be Jesus with skin on so that they can trust the person [00:24:00] who's really at work in the room. It's not me it's really him. And so as they allow things to come up in their life they think they might know what the issue is, but God is really the expert and I encourage them to let God take them to the certain places, certain times in their life when stuff has happened.

And usually it's, I, again, it's different opinions, different theories, but okay, we all have the events, but it's not necessarily a, the event. That affects you. It's usually the lie or the message that the event sent you that you keep reliving. And so that's, and then what you hold the message sent to you in the traumatic moment that, that we have to deal with.

This is an over, this is an oversimplification of that. Yeah. You talked about this so many times, Randy. When I was a kid, I was very sick. I missed a lot of school in the fifth grade. And me and fractions and algebra, we don't. We don't go well, but back then, they may just stand up at the board and they may do the art the art the hard work of the [00:25:00] multiplication or the fractions on the board and the whole room's watching you.

Yeah. And I failed miserably. And what I learned from being put up there over and over again, and the Snickers behind me was that I'm just not smart enough for math. That's an oversimplification of what you just expressed. Very good example. To this day, you've heard me say, I'm really bad at math, so I have to figure out how to do this a different way.

But we're talking about things on a much deeper level than that. Yeah. I would've wanted to mention just really something really you wouldn't think that would feel like healing. My dad was in the polo. Ralph Lauren Cologne face, just soak all over your body.

But it was, we all of a sudden can smell it. All of us can. In the little green, the green bottle and the green bottle. Blue bottle. I can smell it in my head. Everything that he had in his house that we brought into our house that was his from, especially from the garage, and I don't know how Polo Ralph Lauren seeps into metal, but it,[00:26:00] 

it seeped into metal. It seeped into his metal his metal cabinet that we still had. And every time I would, for a long time, every time I would open that cabinet, it would make me a little bit scared. Oh yeah, that smell, that's a lot of sense. And. I didn't know. It's like why am I having this?

And I was like, oh, I just had, I just don't want to even open this metal this metal cabinet anymore. And I had to confront my fear of Yeah. And when I knew I was, I knew I was healed when I could smell that and not feel that feeling. Wow. Yeah. Because you had a, yeah.

You had a, the way our senses work is one of our senses impact by that traumatic moment, and it sticks with us, and it unquote becomes a trigger for us that we can relive moments from the past by [00:27:00] simply having a sensory moment that's connected to that. Yeah. It really stood out to me as spiritually profound, because that's how sometimes things hit us is.

That's a good example. We experienced something and then we don't wanna open that cabinet anymore. Very good. Wow. We lock it down and we don't go there. And how do we go into that and know we're ready to open that cabinet door? How do we get to that place and how do we know that this is the time to address it?

Yeah. Just I'll go a long way around that, but for people who grow up in, in secure attachments where they're getting everything they need and emotional support and love and in a safe space. Trauma can happen to them and they can let it go a little bit easier. But for most of us who didn't get what we needed when we were younger to feel safe and secure other things have slipped in and we don't just [00:28:00] go to that safe place.

It's easier to avoid, it's easier to medicate it, it's easier to keep the cabinet door shut. And so what we have to do, what I've experienced, in God allowing us to do, is when we have enough emotional stability in our life, enough of our needs being met, it's only then that we have the base or the foundation needed to go back and open those cabinets, yeah. And only when you have what you need stability wise. 'cause otherwise it can be re-traumatizing and God doesn't want to do that to you. And you can be worse than what you were before. And and. Sometimes therapists can have enough expertise to distinguish when you're not.

But I really let God be in control of that. And what I found him do is only going to memories or ongoing to parts of the story that, that God leads them to to share, to be open about and then uncovering, okay, what is it that really happened here? What messes were sent to? What was, what lie was planted [00:29:00] there?

And what truth needs to come into that situation? And then as well, do you feel safe enough in this environment to allow your body to experience what it needs to experience so that it's up and out of you and then that trauma doesn't take you back there. But we actually bring with the strength of Jesus and the strength of the connection with a person.

That trauma comes into this room and instead of sucking you back to where you felt powerless or hopeless or helpless or too overwhelmed, that we have the strength here with God, that we bring that thing here and we expose the light that's behind it. And with new strength and with support, we'll face it together and it will get up and out of your life and it won't pull you back there anymore.

So that again, is a nutshell of, it's a nutshell, but I feel like it is a space that is truthful. If we take the thing that we believe that the thing that we believe, if anybody knows this about me or if I have to talk about this again, I'm gonna [00:30:00] break. If we take that thing and we just lay it out there on the table.

For it to be seen, for it to be discussed, to bring it out to the open. Then we've disarmed those lies. The enemy puts in our head and our heart telling us you can't do this. You can't go here, you'll never be able to get past it. People will look at you. You're able to actually break the lies that bind people to that pain.

Yeah. Randy, do people walk away different when that really happens? Oh, I genuinely believe they had, and mainly just from the ports of people that we spend time with, we get into God's presence. He reveals the truth and they literally, the symptoms, diminished or gone away. And again, only with doctor's care and only with experts validating things, people have gotten off medications.

Wow. That they used to u use because you said symptoms disappear. What kind of [00:31:00] symptoms are we talking? Most of the time what, what bring people in could be like nightmares, flashbacks sensory overload, anxiety. Oh, anxiety is a big one. Yeah. Yeah. Panic attacks. All of those kind of things that I've just seen God bring healing, healing to the effect that they don't have those symptoms and not to the point where there is in denial, but they can actually, tell the story without having, and it becomes a part of their story, not reliving the story.

And I don't know. That's probably something you can validate there is that sometimes you can't share a story without reliving it. Then you're probably not healed enough. Yeah, but when it just becomes a part of your story and you can report or talk about it without it pulling you there and you've actually physically feeling it in your body.

And so that's what I've seen God do. It's just make these things a part of their story and their everyday life is more peaceful and [00:32:00] calm. Their interactions with people, they can go through similar similar stimulations and their senses and not be, have trauma responses. Yeah. I like the, I've heard, I heard this description of healing before in regards to people, in regards to people is, you've been healed when you can think of someone and the sting of it is removed.

The actual physical, not that you all of a sudden like them or you are all of a sudden brought into a piece a complete, it's just like it. And I found that even in my own healing journey, it's almost like God gave me space to see what I walked through, but not feel the pain of it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

And I, I really feel that it's almost like that wasn't me. That was this person and this time and this, and so he gave me enough distance and perspective to not be walking in those shoes. He gave me [00:33:00] enough distance from it to see that person, but not feel everything that they're feeling still.

And that kinda came into the whole thing about serving, feeling called to serve. Yet you are still in pain or trauma. Can someone who is still experiencing trauma in their life, can they be an effective minister or, I mean that, 'cause that's a question I've asked myself. Do I deserve to be in ministry? Do I deserve to be a leader when I have still these unresolved and these unresolved trauma in my life?

Oh my goodness. I think the basic answer for me is that, yeah, I've, I don't feel worthy. I don't feel like I deserve, I don't feel like I know enough or that I could, or I'm not healed enough to do this. Yeah, I feel that all the time. And, but I think that's what God does. He uses the foolish things to confound the wises.

He uses the weak things to frustrate the strong. And again, he uses the unlikely. And [00:34:00] I think what I found is, you have to be careful about disclosure. But when you help. When you help people understand, hey, I've been through some similar things that allows Oh, you get it. And that makes the door more open.

'cause it's hard to trust your heart, to trust your experience as someone that maybe just doesn't get what you have. And so sometimes your past again that's what, as the Bible says, God can turn all things around for the good. I see him doing that. And then as well, that may the God of all comfort, the God of all compassion, comfort you with the comfort you've received.

And so I literally, that's one of my core verses is that because I've received compassion from God in these hurtful areas, I can offer what God has to them. Yeah. Even though I'm not totally where I need to be. Yeah. With it. I'm one of hearing kind of Randy, as you're walking through as a counselor over the years, you've had to confront your own [00:35:00] traumas.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And that didn't write off your effectiveness in helping other people. Yeah, and I just saying it because a lot of times we say we can't say what we know to be true because we're, we have our own issues. And really people wouldn't even, people wouldn't even care for what I have to say.

But Randy you've gone through helping people, but also being able to know that you are not all the, you've not been all the way there in those years. Oh, correct. Yeah. And how did this, how did your being a, you having that counseling. Background inform your healing and what you needed.

Oh my goodness. Yeah. It was huge. Yeah, huge. 'cause I think anybody who's gone through a school of ministry or a, a process to learn or be certified in certain areas it's usually for a reason. Some [00:36:00] of your own stuff brings you into it. Yeah. And it, it informs you about your stuff. And the thing you gotta be careful is that you don't wanna project your stuff onto other people's stuff.

And you have to have enough maturity to discern what's my junk wants, their stuff. And, there's fancy words for that, but I just don't want to make things worse by, by bringing my stuff to the person. But I have to be well enough to be able to hold. Their stuff and allowed to be their stuff and not my own.

And so the education the it's validated by what people are teaching you and sharing with you. You find words for it. And for me it's gosh, there's, there are words for that. There are labels for that. And other people go through that too. Wow. And yeah that's healing in and of itself.

'cause I thought I was the only strange one. I thought I was the only one come outta that the bridge of, I'm in this room with you you're talking to me about your, seeing a murder or something like that and [00:37:00] not, and, or you're talking to me about your home situation and not like carrying that weight of the emotions and that empathy.

Into your home or into your, the things that you've experienced. How do you deal with what you deal with on a daily basis and not that traumatize you. It's, yeah, there, there is such thing as secondary trauma. You can be traumatized by the story that that other people have.

And so with that is, is the self-care, the self-care that you have as a person who ministers to others, is allowing God to help you and heal you. Having other people that, in, in the confidential situation, keeping everything as confidential, talking to someone else about what you experience and how it affect you.

And yes, your self care plan I is what helps you get through that. Yeah. Lisa, did you, I know you, you are just busy taking notes [00:38:00] every time and I take notes all the time. But I have to be honest and say I, I feel like we are so busy in leadership sometimes that we, a lot of ti, certain personalities do different things, but I feel like a lot of times we push aside some of the symptoms that our life, our body may show, our body may show how we interact with other people may show that we haven't quite dealt with things in a healing fashion.

And I think it's important for us to remember that. Symptoms are a sign. If we're having anxiety, if we're having fears angst regret, maybe we're having physical reactions to things. Sometimes those are true symptoms that we have, unresolved things that we need to deal with. And, it's funny when you asked Randy, how do you deal with that?

How do you sit with other people's things? And he brought up, yeah, you can get secondhand trauma. But for him as a leader we've joked about it for years, that, he needs to [00:39:00] come home. He needs to just unzip that little top of his skull, take it off, shower out, really good scour, put it back on so that he can walk through the next moment of his day.

And Randy, what, Amber asked you, what do you do in those moments? How do you respond when something. Hit you like that someone's story Yeah. Honestly affects you to suffer such a degree that you have to find a way to unload it. How do you do that? The how tos? Yeah. I think probably first, first thing is after the session, you take a walk and do what you need to do and then say, God, I know I, I gotta deal this.

You, you take a few notes and you jot it down. Then you put it in his hands. You don't, stored away in a cabinet somewhere or no behind a wall and in a prison somewhere, you, it's got a door to it to address later. But then usually it's going to God and through prayer asking, okay, why is this affecting me?

Why is it sticking with me so [00:40:00] much? What is it about my past God? What do you wanna show me? Through this person's story that I need to deal and help me with mine. And then if it's something that I stay stuck in I take it to another person that I talk with them about, Hey, this. And then they can minister to me.

It, the counselor needs counseling, so to speak. The pastor needs a pastor. The healing prayer person needs healing prayer. We need, the minister needs to be ministered too. And so the vulnerability of that is, is important. When you say that, and you have a pastoral counseling degree, a lot of us who feel called to minister in, in we all are called to minister in different ways.

But especially for someone who speaks or writes or, especially who maintains an audience and we have people coming to us. That have these huge traumatic imprints. And as a non-trained [00:41:00] person, how do we handle that? Yeah. How do we deal with that? For you that's a great it is a tool that, again, I didn't mention it earlier but like I, I, in a sense, sometimes picture myself sitting next to a big Jesus, I'm in the chair, but he's right next to me.

And then there's a, there's like a table between me and the person. And I imagine what their their story is they're not putting their emotion, they're not putting that story what they feel on me. It's being put on the table in front of me. And then Jesus and I, Jesus has got his arm around me. And he says, you don't have to hold this.

I already did. This is what I did on the cross. And so you don't have to hold this burden. You don't have to carry this. They're supposed to come to me. You don't have to be their savior. You don't have to own it. You don't have to have all the answers, and you have to be the expert. And again, I'm not, I tell people I'm not the expert.

I don't have all the answers. And I say something I don't know why, but we, I, we can look at that together and I know God can talk to you but not holding onto that, not owning it, not being aware enough that, am I holding onto this in my body, but [00:42:00] just allowing Jesus to hold that, allowing their story to be put on the table in the room.

And I don't have to pick up the pieces of that story and put it all together. I just notice it out there on the table without taking it in. So I don't know. Does that help you? Yeah, no I, I've always said I, I'm not the life preserver, okay. I'm not the life preserver. But at the same time, when I wanna go and help someone who is holding onto me for my experience and my insight on my experience, it is almost like, and I can feel it like someone is putting their arms around you and pushing you under the water.

Oof. Yeah. That's what it's, that's what it feels like when I try to go swim to someone. Oh, wow. And it's same. And I'm trying to save them and I am not a flotation device. Exactly. And sometimes that's really hard because people think you are being not godly or because [00:43:00] you're not, available to them all the time. Yeah. And you're not that you have to put a wallet between you and them. And what is, what does that look like for we're gonna have to do this like three, three podcast. We'll write these down. These questions that we need the answers to that we wanna delve into more deeply.

Yeah. No, but I, honestly, just, I love to just have that quick, I know this may not be quick, but it is, you feel like you're not doing your job. You're not effectively being the person they need and they get angry at you because you have to build the wall.

And what do you do with that? Would, what would, how have you even addressed that in your own life? Those boundaries? Yeah. That's what it's. Yeah, go ahead Lisa. I was gonna say, it reminds me of for those of us that have churches where we have prayer times at the altar where people come and submit they ask for prayer and we stand and agree with them in prayer.

And sometimes there are people who have such a big thing that [00:44:00] they just unload in the moment. You have to walk away and the pastor's gonna speak and this isn't the place. And so how do you make them feel like you care? God cares. At the moment. We can't take this all on, is just the picture I got for a moment when Amber started talking about how that may made her feel.

Yeah. It to, to use the analogy sometimes that's the, what people want you to do is jump in there with them and save it and you don't have the ability. And so even sometimes lifeguards don't, the last thing they do is get in the water. They're sending something to you to. Throwing out the life preserver.

Or the hook, the pole. Yeah. Or whatever. And and then the boundary is that sometimes you're just you're not meant to be on duty. I'm not the lifeguard on duty here, if that makes sense. Yeah. And duty. Yeah. I love you. I care about you, but I'm not really the person to walk with you through this.

And I apologize for that but I know that there might be some people who could do this. [00:45:00] That is so powerful, yeah. That we are not, I just love that I, I think that I need to put up a sign on my on my mirror that says You're not the lifeguard on duty. 'cause we're not the lifeguard, we're we have abdicated the lifeguard position.

Or the ultimate lifeguard that's really in charge. Jesus. Amen. Yeah. He can walk on water. That puts a perspective, that puts a perspective in my mind that says, I can pray. Okay. That changes that feeling. I have I'm drowning and you're taking me down with you when I can say, I'm not a lifeguard, but I know somebody who is.

Yeah. And that is honestly, I think a way that some of us in lay ministry and those of us who find us ourselves in that position, Amber, where we can say, I don't know the answer and I don't know that I'm qualified to give you the answer, but what I can do is I can, help you lay this at Jesus' feet and I can see if there might be somebody more qualified to help with this time.

Yeah. Oh, good. We, I'm sure we could talk for another [00:46:00] three hours here, but we probably need to wrap up this podcast time. Yes. This may not be one podcast time. This may be two, this may be two. I just wanted to give Lisa, and I know you're talking, we had talked a lot about the healing prayer and giving Randy the opportunity to lead in that healing prayer.

Could you do that for us, Randy? Yeah. What I explained to folks and so if we're in my office and we are together it's just awareness. Most of the time all that we're aware of is what we're feeling or sensing or in some cases, which we haven't mentioned a lot, but a reaction to trauma can be the shutdown, the pulling away, and the numbness.

And so sometimes people are numb 'cause they don't want to feel, or they're depressed and pulled in 'cause they don't want to feel. But, what are you experiencing right now? Is there something that you're not noticing? Something that you're not feeling because you don't feel safe?

But [00:47:00] the first thing I want you to do is to be present. To be present with me. And we do that through deep breathing. And and the biggest thing is is when we breathe and we tune into our five senses. And some people call it a grounding technique, but I found this ancient wisdom in Psalm 23.

Which is the lord of my shepherd. I shall not one, he makes me lie down in green pastures. He leaves me. Besides the water, I believe Psalm 23 is a grounding moment for David. It's right there in scripture before the idea of grounding came in. And so just to be present. To be in the moment. And the first thing you gotta do, 'cause most of the time when you're anxious or shut down, is you're not breathing deeply enough.

And the first thing you do is just need to exhale. And probably people that just blow out. And as you blow out, then you can take in through your nose and then exhale through your mouth. And then on this third one, inhale through your nose [00:48:00] and then exhale through your mouth. And this time push out as much air as you can, hold it for a moment.

And then that third breath is taking a nice deep breath. Very good. And so keep that nice even deep breathing in through your nose and out through your mouth. And just be aware of how that feels to have your lungs emptied. And have it filled with clean, fresh air. And what I want you to imagine as you're doing this deep breathing, is you're exhaling frustration and stress and worry, negative feelings.

And then you're inhaling fresh, clean air, and actually you're inhaling the presence of God. You're inhaling the love of God and the care of God. So then as you're inhaling and as you're exhaling I want you to become aware of where you're sitting and just allow that chair to hold you up and [00:49:00] lean into your chair.

Be aware of maybe your feet on the floor or your hands in your lap. And again, that sensation of the air in through your nose and out through your mouth. And obviously you can hear my voice so you're hear my voice. Or as well if you're in a room, there might be air coming through the vent or a ticking clock or some sort of sound in the room to focus on that so that you're hearing very good.

Hopefully your bodies begin to relax. Your shoulders are loose, the tension in your neck is disappearing as you're deep breathing. And then we've opened up our senses. And then what I want you to do is open up the sixth sense, and that is pray the simple prayer on the inside, your God. Dear Jesus, help me be aware of your presence and help me to know that you're near [00:50:00] in this moment right now.

God, just help me to know that you're near and help me become aware of you and God even. In relationship to me in this room, in this space that I am just with my mind's eye, just have a sense of where you are.

Thank you Lord. And even though I might not be totally aware that you're here, make yourself known.

And so as hopefully you sense God's presence. 'cause there's never been a moment in your life that he hasn't been there. The thing is you just weren't aware of it. And right now you're very much aware of you being in the space that you're in, and then God being there with you. And he's not shaming you, condemning you, but he's just wanting to love and care for you.

And so now Lord, we just ask God, is there anything you want me to [00:51:00] know? Anything you want me to experience in this moment? Anything you want me to understand? No experience or feel, and I'm just open and we'll just wait here, wait in this moment and see if there's anything that God wants to help, be aware of or understand.

So even as your eyes are closed, Amber, do you have awareness of God? And you can just shake your head yes or no. Yeah. What is that like for you? Even right now, Amber? Warm. Just warm. Warm. And I can feel it on my toes. Wow. And you just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost I, it's like a, it feels like a refresh almost. It's a warm coolness. Fresh feeling. Yeah. That's nice. And just allow yourself to experience that. And just thank God for that. And that's such a kind of [00:52:00] response I hear from a lot of people. And Do you like that feeling? Yeah. And here's the thing.

You didn't have to earn it, deserve it. All you had to do is just turn on your spiritual wifi and that's what you experienced. And and so now with, you don't have to share this it God, holy Spirit, is there anything you wanna reveal to Amber in this moment? Is there anything you want her to know?

I hear this. You're right where I want you to be. Wow. Does that feel true? Yeah. And so what I usually explain to people is that. Feeling something that feels true is something that's true to you, your mind, your heart, and even your body. And oh yeah, that's real. That's true. A total experience, not just a head experience or a heart [00:53:00] experience, but as a whole person.

Yeah, I feel that's true. And so that's when we know that the true Lord Jesus is showing up and not something from the past is that, oh, that feels true all over. And so yeah, who would've imagined that we took this moment? And God would've shared that with you. So that feels true, huh? Yeah.

And this is what I feel I know to be true. This is my reality that I live in, not the only reality that I'm having at the moment. Yeah. Is no matter. Where I am in my feelings, I am not disappointing God. Wow. I'm right where he wants me to be. Yeah. No matter where I'm struggling, [00:54:00] no matter where, I feel like I'm disappointing him and he somehow I'm right where he wants me to be. Even in where I feel like I'm tripping. Yeah. Are you willing to receive that truth?

Yeah. Just take a deep breath of what it feels like to hear that and just let that truth that Jesus just spoke to you, wash over you from head to toe.

You his hands on my porch. Wow. I actually [00:55:00] see his hands on my porch. Yeah. Wow. And

I feel that he knows my heart. Wow. Very. Very much. And he knows that

my heart is beating for him and it's in the right place even when I feel it's in the wrong place. Wow.

Even when I,

it's those things that [00:56:00] I feel bad for feeling bad about. Yeah. I feel maybe I'm being simple or being horrible to. Or look horrible to others because I feel for those things.

Yeah. Just says, no don't think that you, your heart is in the wrong place just because you don't agree for people with people who say that they love me. Don't feel that you are sinful just because you don't agree with someone else's idea of righteousness. Yeah. Because I know your heart's in the right place. Yeah. And that's really all that matters. It's that heart. And I have that heart, and I know the intent of that heart. Even though other people might judge you from the outside. I know your heart. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Are you willing to receive that [00:57:00] and just if you can just take a deep breath of all that he's been saying to you.

Let it wash over you, and then exhale. Yeah.

Yeah. He knows your heart's in the right place.

Yeah. I feel like I've been angry because people haven't aligned totally with my heart

and I've been questioning other people just like people have been questioning me

and he wants to show me that I have their heart too. I should feel just as compassionate to how he holds their heart as how he holds my heart. Wow. That's beautiful. 'cause he's big enough to do that.[00:58:00] 

Yeah. Have more compassion with the thing people you think should have compassion. That should be great.

Sorry. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

That's typically what ha thank you for being open Amber and. Live and vulnerable in front of other people. But that's what I found so many times, hundreds and hundreds of times is just God wants to speak to people, he wants to reveal and show things and usually he says things that they were not even, they can't even think they know it came from God.

Because I wouldn't have thought of it and they wouldn't have thought of. It just really is something that he can speak to and it's powerful truth. Yeah, and I definitely know those words were something that I needed to [00:59:00] hear and it wasn't contrived in a lot of times, we think, maybe we're just thinking those things.

Maybe we're just writing what God is saying to us and he is really has just said, to just breathe and note the presence of God. Is there. He speaks and he does you in areas that he knows you need the deepest healing. And that's what I felt in that moment. Yeah. And maybe that's what healing is.

He speaks to the areas that you need your most healing. Yeah. And that moment in that time. Yeah. Yeah. So good. So good. My goodness. I don't, I just feel like, I don't know. This is amazing. This is an amazing podcast and thank you for this time. And I don't even know if I can even close this.

I feel like a lot of people say they're just like a rung out washcloth or just limp and Yeah. You forget for a moment where you're at and you open your eyes like, whoa, the room even looks different. Yeah. That's, that [01:00:00] is true. And, it is the undeniable presence of God with us.

Amen. And that is, yeah, that is the most evident thing that even that prayer brought into my space. We may cho choose, and this is something we can think about as we edit this show, whether or not we go through that prayer in its entirety or not on a live broadcast. You can edit how you feel appropriate with your personal experience, Amber, but just maybe in closing.

Randy, would you just take us through a simplified version of the steps of just asking God to do that healing prayer? Can people go to this space with Jesus, with God without a therapist? And if so, in a simplified way, how do we prepare ourself for that [01:01:00] and get to that place? To have a prayerful conversation with him?

Yeah. Yes. I wouldn't recommend visiting trauma by yourself. 'cause it's usually a situation where your trauma didn't take place by yourself. And so it's usually something that needs to be visited with another person present. And but I have had people that I've done this enough with that they can do this on their own, but it takes, quite a ways, quite a level of healing to do that. But what this is in a sense meditation. This is meditation. This is grounding, this is being fully present. This is something that you can do on your own, by yourself, just to become aware of the presence of God and fully aware of you and in your space, right?

And being, and again, opening your heart to what God wants to say and have an experience encounter with the Holy Spirit. And so because, so like you said, it does it. I'm not talking about those things that are really born of deep traumas and woundedness, but for the sake of all of us recognizing how to really get in [01:02:00] God's presence and feel him.

And that's something that, goodness, just being able to sense his presence. We go through our day and people of faith, we pray all the time, but how often do we just stop unless we've had this experience? To just breathe for a minute, recognize where I'm at, and recognize that God is with me, and give him the time to show himself that he's there with me.

That's a wonderful tool, I think, to helping just deal with every day. Stresses of life. Absolutely. Because we talked about trauma in the beginning. Yeah. Is there anything other than just is trauma, can it be big, can it be small? Oh, absolutely. And just dealing with the stresses of everyday life, feeling grounded and having God's presence with us can change a whole lot of how we experience that day.

I think that, I think this, even just going through this prayer, the, and what you said is [01:03:00] the washing of weight. I think that is, that even though I didn't, I didn't feel that and necessarily went into this in a trauma moment, I feel that there was a, just like the cooling sensation, I felt that there was this kind of washing, and it wasn't a washing because I was dirty.

It was a washing because I need refreshment. Being in a refreshing moment of standing in the waterfall. Yeah. Grace. Amen. Yeah. Yes. And I think that, that was what it was. It wasn't conviction. Even though I had some spiritual re revelations, it was a living water moment where the reality of who God is and what he thinks of me.

Yeah. And how he wants to change my thinking. That's what I would think. That's what, how I would explain this moment. So I I really think that. [01:04:00] The conversation for people who maybe are going through deep traumas, having the conversation about just knowing maybe where it might be stifling us and how we can move on through it.

The help of a therapist, a counselor, someone to walk through with us. And also just like we discussed, understanding that people we love walk through these moments too. We may not be walking through them ourself. And so we just wanna say thank you for being with us today. I have privileges. Thank you for sharing.

And if anybody has any questions or any type of conversation they might wanna have, how would they contact you? What would be the best way? Probably my personal one. So yeah, that'll, LEER b7@gmail.com. So LER b7@gmail.com is Randy's email address.

And we [01:05:00] that in the show notes, we'll put in the show notes and just in case anybody has any questions and comments, we would love to, we would love to have if you went through this prayer with us and you felt a release scenario, we'd like to know about that. Because I think that this is not, I know this trying to, this is really powerful and effective prayer.

And and I just think that God wants to do this more. Yeah. The people who have been caring so much, he just wants to make them feel refreshed. Yeah. Renewed in the moment and every day. Yeah. Yeah. It is, that's the thing. It's like we don't have to wait or trauma to impact us and weigh us down so much that we don't have these moments.

Healing prayer is we need healing Exactly. Everything and every moment of our day, we may not see our trauma, but there's things that we're carrying on us as we, that need to come off. So thank you so much. I was so much. Thank you. We're gonna, we're gonna let Amber splice this. However she [01:06:00] likes, she has to go and do a little surgery on this one. I won't do any surgery on it, actually. I'll just leave it rough and edit rough and unedited. Folks, thank you so much for your time. I wanna let you know that we'll be back in a couple weeks with another podcast episode.

Make sure that you listen to us on all the, we're available everywhere. You can listen to a podcast. That's where we are, right Amber? Yes. All the podcast platforms. And we're also on YouTube. We'd love to see you there. We'd love for you to subscribe. You'll see our videos there as well as our audio podcasts are up on there.

So be sure that you subscribe and you share 'cause this is gonna bless somebody subscribe and share care. All the things. All the things. Until next time guys. Byebye.