How Do You Keep Going When You're Always Giving? Simple Rhythms to Help You Do the Hard Things

Life has been life'in, people, and we're back with a heart-to-heart that might just be the permission slip you've been waiting for.

In this episode, Lisa opens up about the reality of being a firstborn daughter turned lifelong caregiver—from raising younger siblings in the seventies to caring for her mom through cancer and brain surgery, and now navigating her dad's recent health crisis. If you've ever felt guilty for needing rest, struggled to say no, or wondered why everyone else's emergency becomes your responsibility, this conversation is for you.

Whether you're caring for aging parents, raising kids, managing chronic illness, or just trying to survive while being everyone's person, we hope this reminds you: God has broad shoulders for your burdens, and you don't have to carry it all alone.

Pour yourself a cup of something warm and join us. 

Thank you for taking the time to like, subscribe, share, and comment. Visit leadingladies.life to find out more. Also, follow @leadingladieslife on social. Amber & Lisa are authors of the multi-award-winning book, Leading Ladies: Discover Your God-Grown Strategy for Success, which dives into the power of community and empowering women of faith to rise up and make a difference, using our gifts and faith to shine brightly in the world. Watch the Facebook Live edition on our YouTube Channel @coffeechatladies .

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome everyone to coffee chat with Amber and Lisa. I'm Amber. And I'm Lisa. And we welcome you to the show and we're so excited to be with you today. It's been a while. As we said, life has been life and for both of us, right? Yes, Lisa. That's my favorite phrase. Life has been life and that is that.

I've had to adopt that. I like that one. And I like, people are peopley. Yeah. People, it's like peopley. Life is life and people just continue to be peopley. Yeah. I saw the best social pen that said social. I tried to go out to, I tried to go out to a coffee shop to be social, but then I had to go back inside because the people.

Yeah. So exhausting, isn't it? I mean, it's People are sometimes really exhausting on you. Sometimes they can be, it depends on what's going on. If we're on the edge to begin with, just the right people can take us [00:01:00] right over, right over the edge. It can, you're on the edge and you're like, you're trying to be nice and of course so hard being nice or trying to be nice all the time and trying to know that you sit on the edge of, I know I have to do this.

As a Christian, as a person who is kind and loving, yes, who wants to love. But you know what? Some people you just wanna Mm. But some people you can't. And I think that is a big thing what of what we're talking about today. Not that we're wanting to push people away, but at the same time No, no. You push for space, right?

You push for space in your life. Yeah. And Lisa, you know this very well, especially 'cause you're a firstborn. And, and not only do you have your mom, but now your dad in a situation where you are being the caregiver and you've always been the caregiver of your family, it seems like. And and it's funny, I don't think we call, I don't think [00:02:00] we always call it that when you're.

A family, whether you're growing up as a kid or you're just starting out with your own family, you really don't think of it that way. I guess. I don't look at myself as a caregiver, but yeah, I've been doing plenty of that most of my life in one way or the other. I was the oldest of four children. I have a brother, roughly a year under than me, under me, and I have a brother nine years younger than me.

Wow. And then I have a brother 18 years younger than me. Whoa. So it seemed like there was always a little person in the house. And I was the big sisters. I did a lot of babysitting and it was, hello? It was the seventies. Yeah. In the late sixties and early seventies, you were home watch getting, getting off the bus, letting yourself in the house with the keys.

Right. And you had chores to do even when younger and you weren't, you were watching your siblings and back then you didn't all stay in the house with the doors closed [00:03:00] and locked you. We actually went out and played. Oh, goodnight. There's some times where I don't see my kids go out of their room. It's like they're vampires in their, you think you, it used to be really intense because you're always thinking about where is your kid?

Where is your, where are they at? Do you in trouble just playing everywhere? Yes. Like when I was a kid, I remember we lived in a fairly up and coming. Suburb of Kansas City and we were in a new build housing edition. So as you drove into the addition, there were established homes, but by the time you got to where I was, there were houses going up literally over across the street and down the street.

And the next block over, I remember we would go out and play. There were creeks and fields and we would just take our bikes and go, go to someone's house. Not even necessarily did my parents always know where I was, but it was just a different [00:04:00] time back then. But I did, I started taking care of helping to take care of brothers.

And did you always have to know where they were or were, was that your responsibility to do that until mom and dad got home from work? Yeah. Keep an eye on, on the, keep an eye on everybody. And there weren't cell phones. Oh. It's like there was a phone on the wall and you weren't supposed to bother your parents at work.

But no, I, I remember being the older sister, there was a lot of caregiving that had to happen just because I was the older sister I, and I know some people are bothered by that. I know to this day I've heard people talk about how unfair that was, that they were putting those. I don't think I was ever bitter or angry about it.

My brothers probably. Who at you? Yeah. They didn't like having a second mom, but they still don't like it. No, I'm just kidding. Although, I'm probably not kidding. I would say that I just think [00:05:00] that it was just the way families were. It's mm-hmm. It's the way we did life in a very different time in our society.

So it was normal if you were a daughter to have more caregiving responsibilities. Although my parents were really big about letting me do anything my mind wanted to do, they were not, they didn't tell me I couldn't do certain things because I was a girl. They weren't those people. Yeah. It was the seventies.

Yeah. And, but they, but I did have a role. Yeah, and there were things that just automatically fell into place because I was oldest and then when I got married, it's once we started having children, then you just get caught up in caring for your family. I have an amazing husband. I'm reminded often by women, how wonderful my husband is, but he honestly has been a helpmate to me.

Not just me to him, but him to me to this day. He [00:06:00] does first half of our marriage. I probably did all the cooking. I probably did most of the cleaning. He did help me though his, he was taught how to clean. He helped with the kids from the word go. Wow. He was the daddy that fixed the daughter's hair before church on Sunday.

But for me, I did most of those nurturing things and then he just, you know, do it. Do it well. I know my older sister, it was the same way. I was the middle child of five. Now, most of us we're like four years apart, so not so much of the age gap, but I do, I do look at my sister and she was, her name's Lisa too.

So I guess there's something about Lisa, you just stuck with us. I think that they na, you naturally get put into a role of responsibility all of a sudden because you become the babysitter, you become in charge, you become the person who gets reprimanded if things go [00:07:00] outta line. So all of a sudden you're having to get that, get parental or develop that.

What is this? Just to keep your, I don't know, keep the peace in your home, actually, you know that. You know that it's your responsibility and you hold it very tightly. Yeah. It's like ask, being asked to be the line leader at school when we were little. It's, yeah, I guess it's like being the line leader. All of a sudden you're standing up real straight and you know that you're supposed to walk in a straight line and you're not, and then you have to be, then the person at the back has to be the caboose and keep other people in line.

Yeah. So there's a natural heaviness that falls on that, on that leader, and I think so. So I know that for you as the oldest, but also we talked about caregiving. Everybody, if you care at all, you're a caregiver, you care for people at all. You're a caregiver. But at the same time, there is a, there's a distinct difference [00:08:00] in you, Lisa, and I'm as, and a lot of people who have walked through, walk through life, and people have cared for their disabled children or their own spouses who've become disabled or any type of illness has happened.

And then your parents, it's a, it hits you in the face like a bucket of cold water when your parents start be operating in a way that you know that they can't take care of themselves anymore. Right. It does get, it's a heavy, it's a heavy time. Mm-hmm. When you realize that, and it's not heavy in the way of.

For me personally, I don't feel slighted. Like I don't feel slighted or angry that I have to do this. Do I feel overwhelmed sometimes? Yes, I do. Yeah. Um, we had a time period where my mom and dad divorced after, I think it was 37 years of marriage. Mm-hmm. And my [00:09:00] dad remarried pretty quickly. My mom never remarried and my mom was going through some mental health situation.

She had lost her father and she had gone through some therapy and, and gone through some changes because of just the work you have to do internally when you go through therapy. And so my mom lived on her own for quite a while, and then she ended up with a diagnosis of lung cancer. Yeah, she moved in with us and she stayed with us and lived with us for about four, almost five years.

During that time, she had lung cancer. She went through surgery, she went through radiation, she went through recovery processes and pretty much beat cancer. And then she turned around again and. Couple years later ended up. Mm-hmm. We all had COVID [00:10:00] here around the house. We kept her from catching it for a long time because we knew it would be really hard on her.

And lo and behold, we all got COVID. But we were realizing my mom had some symptoms that started happening about the same time that led us to find out she had a brain tumor. It had meta sized. Yeah. Gone to her brain. So then we immediately had a brain surgery. Yeah. Where we had to follow up with radiation.

And to be totally honest, the next couple years after that where we were almost in the free zone from the cancer acting up, it very much the results of radiation in the brain started to cause her to have really diminished. Ability physically to care for her or even to be cared for at home by me. I couldn't care for her anymore.

And so all of a sudden, care-giving, after so many years, I've raised my [00:11:00] children for the most part. I have one in college, the others are parents. Grand babies are coming, and all of a sudden my mom needed to be taken care of. And for several years we were able to do that right here. We had to face a real transition when I could no longer care for her anymore.

Yeah. What did it take for you to do that? I. I feel like first and foremost because, and we've talked about my health issues before with some of my autoimmune diagnosis, I've had to learn to live just a little differently anyway so that I can continue to go and do and be. There are moments I have to rest when other people would keep pushing and I have to know my body and I have to be willing to put a halt on things.

So when this happened with my mom, it's like I had been pushing and pushing for quite some time. She was having appointments almost every week for a couple of [00:12:00] years, multiple appointments a week, and it got to the point where her ability to help herself. Became so diminished and I knew what my limitations were as far as if she fell.

I had a hard time getting her up off the floor. Wow. She lost the ability to be mobile, to walk safely. We live in a a split level house and the showers were all upstairs. Yeah. And she had a little semi room apartment downstairs and she struggled getting into the shower. We would have to bathe her. It got to the point where I couldn't physically do the things necessary.

Not because I didn't want to, but because I felt I might hurt her if I ever with my body that isn't really always dependable. Yeah. I was afraid that she would come to [00:13:00] greater harm. Yeah. And at that point that's when I realized, okay, these two things together Yeah. Are are telling me to take a breath, relinquish, and analyze the situation.

Yeah. When did, and this is important because we get to, how did you handle delivering the news that you could not take care of your mother to your mother? How did that happen? I think we'd been having that conversation for a little while gently and in little. Little pieces, the realization of where she was at and my limitations were something that came up on occasion, like if she did, it's funny, she had this big recliner that was a power recliner that we thought we were being so nice to give her.

But it got to the point where her reflexes got [00:14:00] so bad that she would sit in the chair and then she would literally dump herself out on the floor and not realize she was sliding down out of the seat. Oh my God. And it was only about maybe 18 inches slow motion sliding before, but still, it would be like, I could imagine myself doing that.

I was terrified. I was like. Mom, I don't think I can pick you up safely. Right. But I can't leave you on this floor. I'm afraid I'm going to hurt you. Wow. Um, because she was not able to help at all when those things happened. So we had those little moments here and there. And then I think finally when it came down to the point to where we realized cognitively or she just started forgetting the simplest things and we knew that meant something was going on.

Yeah. With her brain. And when we realized, like she would pick up her walker and go the same path, she'd always gone right into the bathroom a few feet away [00:15:00] and all of a sudden the walker would be turned just slightly towards the door. Jamb, Uhhuh. And she would be so frustrated 'cause she couldn't get it in.

She kept pushing it up against the door. And I would say, mom, look, we just turn it a little bit this way and it goes right in with you. So the simplest things started. To become roadblocks and we had to have a serious talk and we, she was very weak and she was swelling. The left side of her body was swelling pretty profusely.

The tumor had been on the right side of her brain, so the left side was not working right. Her left arm wasn't working right. And so at that point we knew we had to be assessed by the doctors. So my brother helped me on this day 'cause I was working. He took her into her next infusion appointment and when they saw.

How she had changed in just a matter of a few weeks time. Their advice to us was she needs assessment and she may need some short [00:16:00] term rehab care to get her back into your home with you. And that was the goal. At that point. The goal was the way our insurance system works. Yeah. The way all of that works for our elderly was you have to have a hospital stay.

You have to be there so many days with all of them saying she needs to be in a rehab facility before you are placed and then you are on a deadline because our insurance only gives you so many days. To improve and to get home. And they aren't willing to pay for anything else for our elderly who are dealing with that type of situation.

And it's, it is a sad thing too. It is very sad to watch them go through and to be a family member and just feel so helpless. But they helped us assess and get her in. And the worst part was, it was the, literally the Tuesday before Christmas. Wow. We were just a couple days out from Christmas. And Christmas is just such a big deal for many families.

But for my mom to be away [00:17:00] from us was just horrible. And to not have her with us mm-hmm. When we'd had her there. We'd had her there for Thanksgiving, we'd had a beautiful family time, and then all of a sudden, a matter of four weeks later, and life has changed drastically. Yeah, I know. It's, I know it's a challenge being that my mom is in her mid eighties.

It, I had her over to the house for the very first, she lives in a retirement community and independent living with the, with her, with my stepdad, who's, they've been married about four, four or five, four years. Yeah. But I was almost shocked by how she was having trouble lifting her legs and coordinating all of that.

And I was just like. I don't know. How are you living on your own? Yeah. How are you living on your own? It cause causes you what they have done. I had the same [00:18:00] questions before we moved mom in with us. I, before the first round of cancer, I was like, you, how have you done this? You really haven't been doing it very successfully, but how do we know it was this bad?

Because when we would come over, we'd help vacuum or do her dishes up. And then it got to this point where we realized, wow, something's really changed. She can't do this on her own. Yeah. It's a sad realization when you see that, isn't it? Yeah. I think it's really sad. And being that her husband is quite a bit older than her, that isn't, he isn't as fit either.

Yeah. And so you see people in decline together yet. What do you do about it? And you have a similar situation with your dad and your stepmom, who is also in a situation where she isn't. She's just gone. She's just gone through some difficult things. My mom is still in the residential facility. We had to get her approved for long-term care, and we recently [00:19:00] had to, I'd say back last fall, it's been a year now.

Wow. Embrace the idea of hospice. Not because my mom's death was imminent, but because with her cancer. Diagnosis and the way that her brain was reacting, causing such terrible inflammation that her left side totally was shut down and was so swollen. She's gone from being able to walk with a walker to not being able to walk at all, not being able to physically get herself in and out of a chair and things like that.

Yeah. So when that happened with my mom and she went into long-term care, and that is quite a process. If you have a loved one that you're trying to have approved in that way, I feel it worked out and I am, I'm very happy with the care that she receives right now. But it was hard and I wasn't exactly very trusting of, I made the facility's life pretty hard.

You're the big sister. You're the big sister, [00:20:00] the first born. You're the big sister. You're the first born. Yeah, I was there all the time. And by golly, they were gonna know her. Yeah. And they were gonna know me. Yes. So it became that type of a thing. Amber, I think we might wanna take a little quick break here because I think the family's getting ready to come in the door and it's gonna be really loud.

Okay. Dogs for a second. So we'll make sure we put a little marker in here at this point. Come back. Okay. Marker. We're gonna have a sound break. Like we will will sound

Who can stay of the sound wolf. I know. This will be the sound. Pause the pause and we'll see how that goes. They are actually probably getting ready to come right in the door if I'm thinking straight here. Wow. And I do think they'll be able to make a little bit of noise because Randy's always moving around all the time when I'm doing this and I don't think you've ever had to deal with So who, what kids are coming in?

What kids? Randy and Zoe are coming in with [00:21:00] groceries and the Oh, okay. They also went to Papa Murphy's and picked up a pizza for our dinner because. We are just tired. Oh, I know. And this, today we're not cooking anything. Today. We didn't even have, so before, before I came home, I had to pick up the dogs from the groomers, which they're nice and soft and fluffy now.

And then I went to Sam's and we got a sushi tray. 'cause I could not even take eating hot food tonight. It is been in the nineties. This is in the nineties up there. Yeah. We had our record high for the summer. Oh, that's beautiful. We had our record high for the summer as of today in Kansas City, Missouri, downtown.

Wow. What was it? It was 97 and Oh my gosh. We have had a very mild summer up here. Yeah. With all the cold fronts and stuff coming through. It's been just a really nice summer. We've had some heat, but yeah, this was the worst that we've had. Yeah, you [00:22:00] girls stay outta here. Your toes are too noisy. I'm gonna let them get somewhat settled before I turn around and let's go again.

But yeah, it's like, it does not seem right, like after today I was like, I really shouldn't have had a pumpkin spice latte right before. Really? Because I had, I had one a couple weeks. Usually I don't have any pumpkin until a pumpkin spice latte coffee until it is officially October. Because really I feel like I, isn't that crazy?

I just have to, I have to just get it in there. I don't mind, I don't mind having it like in September I, but in other parts of our country, fall really does start in September. Really in, in like eastern states. School doesn't start till after Labor day. Yeah. So to them it's cool. That's the end of their summer.

That's back to school. Fall is here and it's a little chillier in some those [00:23:00] Northeastern states. So isn't this cra It is crazy. People think the Midwest is some sort of a, I don't know, a temperate zone. I don't think we're a temperate zone. I think they don't have clue. Flu we're a crazy zone. We have way too, people talk about Missouri having being a bipolar kind of thing or being like, no, seriously.

Yes, we have all the seasons, but that means we also have true summer. Yes. And we have a true fall usually, and a true winter and a true spring. And so sometimes there's sprinkled in between and sometimes they go bounce back and forth for a couple weeks, you know? Oh, it's so crazy. Yeah, it's so crazy. The other day I was like.

This is amazing. I'm going out to the fire pit. The mosquitoes are light. It's cool. Who wants to be sitting by a fire pit when it's 90 degrees outside? I certainly don't want to, unless I'm really stressed out. No, but the fire pit is for cooler weather. But I [00:24:00] was thinking about the whole thing of how Lisa, your house smells like fresh.

I don't know. Fresh. It smells like winter and pine because winter and pine needle, I like all the time and, and Lisa's just sandalwood. Like your smell is just, just like, I like all that stuff. I do the smoky stuff. Yeah, I do like it. Can you hear them too much in the background? No, you can't. You can't. Okay.

So we can go on. Um, so let's ease back into that. So with my mom, uh, finally understanding this is going to have to be your home, then it was Okay. I have to think about the fact that I have to relearn how I. Give her care. And because I am a firstborn daughter and the oldest it's, and because my mom's marriage was no longer intact, it felt like I was her person.

And yeah, that's something you try to keep it [00:25:00] in place, but it was very hard when we, I just, I remember just knocking myself out and within that time period of my mom's cancer, coming back to her, going through the treatments. And then finally after almost two years after that second cancer in the brain, she needed to be in long-term care.

I had a hysterectomy. Yes. We wrote a book. We wrote a book. Yes, we wrote a book. Yes. I had kids graduating and going off to college. I had more grand babies coming. Yes. And I feel like during that time I probably went into the most extended time of just sickness with my immune system. I was, I was constantly, yeah.

Sick. Really sick. Bed sick and that whole time we're trying to raise awareness about the book. I was just running [00:26:00] and gunning to a pretty weak place. Yeah, I know it was hard. And caregivers, especially the, if they're the family that I had asked you this the other day is being that you are always thinking of others first.

And I know everybody says this big thing about self-care and I think self-care is really important. Some people say, oh, you're, that's all self love. No, God calls us to let, God calls us. To align with his love for us in that we take care of ourselves, people. Right. And that's, it's not, it's not a bad thing to love yourself the way that God loves you and take care of and be a good steward of your mind, your body, your spirit, your emotional health, be your physical health.

But at the same time, Lisa, you have and we are, we we're both, you run yourself [00:27:00] ragged, taking care of people. Yeah. Do you take care of yourself? It's really, once again, I think just being the kind of person that I am, if I did not have the health issues, this would've been be far harder. I think I've had to learn how to pace myself and I've had to learn how to listen to my body.

And so what it doesn't look like is Lisa no longer does the things that she enjoys or the things that, that perhaps God has put in front of her to do. It is Lisa has had to learn how to best learn to delegate, sometimes learn to ask for help. There was a point early on, and you did start to mention with my dad recently, my dad's health has really taken a turn [00:28:00] just in the past two and a half weeks.

My dad has spent 10 days in the hospital and Lisa from before when mom had her lung cancer. Mm-hmm. Lisa would've been at the hospital every night. Yes. And if she, if her siblings couldn't help her out or her husband, she was there sleeping on a couple of chairs, put together in Wow. The U room or sleeping on those lovely recliners they give you at the hospital or those little couches, because I felt really strongly that when a loved one is in a place like that, we need to do our best to be there to advocate for them.

I have had to learn though, that Lisa can't do that anymore. Yes. And we did finally sit down at one point with my brothers after mom had to go into the long-term care, and I have three amazing baby brothers. One lives out of the state, and I know that he and his wife, I know that they care and they would love to be a [00:29:00] part of caring to take the load, but they live somewhere else.

So it fell to me and my family. My husband is very good about. Helping me, whether that's in the simple things. Of course, he just pulled the blinds in the living room and they made a tremendous noise in the middle of our recording. That's how awesome he is. That's okay. I don't think I heard that. I don't think I heard that.

It's so funny. I'm telling you how wonderful he is. And then he goes, come on. No, I'm just teasing about That's alright. That's okay. We need the sound effects. He did the sound effects for the important, somewhat hard conversation, but with my dad, it's been a little different because I have tried to get to the hospital every day.

But there were a couple days I had to say, I can't be here. And my brothers have helped me when my mom was doing all of the appointments and there were times where I was getting really run down, [00:30:00] my brothers would step in and help. Yeah. And had the conversation. And my youngest brother even said at one point, you've been carrying this load, this role for a long time.

It is time for me to personally step up and try to help out more. And yeah, he, he went to his job, he mm-hmm. He went in and put in the paperwork for family leave, was able to actually take time off when things got really hard to handle. But I have had to pay attention to my body and recognize I, I cannot be the best me.

Yeah. If I don't do that. Yeah. And at the same time, we've had this. Wonderful explosion of grandchildren. Yes. And I wanna be a part of their life. I wanna, I don't want their parents to hire a babysitter. I want them to come stay with Nani and Papa. But Right. Even that role, [00:31:00] in order for me to be my best for them, I had to start to really, I think what I've had to do is really hone in on the exact purpose of who I'm giving care to at that moment.

Right? Meaning, when it's my days to watch my grand babies, that's what I'm doing. A I brush my teeth, I shower, or I brush my teeth and just wash my face. Doesn't care. They don't care. I dress casual. I don't do anything fancy, and I commit my moment to their immediate needs and me putting my feet up. I, that's not the day for me to have a major project to try to finish or to deal with any kind of deadline or to overhaul the summer clothes and pull out the winter.

Those are not the days for that. It is just to take care of them, that's all. And when the day's over, for the most part, I don't go anywhere that night. Yeah. I'm just [00:32:00] home and I've had to make myself do that. I go to bed. Mm-hmm. Usually before 9:00 PM because I'm up around 6:00 AM. And that is think be something I do.

I think maybe some of the people who, some of the people who just watched this need to rewind and look at, listen to this checklist because it basically is giving an outline for being very precise and in with intentional the An intentional, yeah, intentional. And in your day. Mm-hmm. Just knowing that you cannot be the one to be the 9 1 1 all the time.

Yeah. You cannot be the 9 1 1. No. And I think a lot of people either they've grown up with being the 9 1 1. They've done this and I love what you sent me the other day because you sent me this, the eldest daughter workbook. I, and I, I'm probably gonna have to order that because the more I look at it and read things, bits and pieces from it, I'm like, oh my goodness.

Somebody has my number. [00:33:00] I have, oh my gosh, attention. Yeah. And I love, and this is, I love this checklist that gives you signs that you're carrying an eldest daughter wound. And you wouldn't think that just, you wouldn't think that eldest is like they have wounds because it's just that responsibility.

Let's say yes or no to these check marks. I apologize for my emotions. That might be inconvenient to others. Yes. My love language is acts of service. Yes. Okay. I sense tension in a room before anyone speaks. Yes. I have been mature for my age since I was eight years old. I was a little old woman.

I feel guilty when I'm not productive. Oh my gosh. Yes. I'm everybody's therapist, but nobody's patient. That one hurts. But yes, asking for help feels like weak weakness. [00:34:00] Yep. Probably not as much. I'm getting better. Not as much. Get getting. Yeah. I secretly wish someone would take care of me. Oh, I have some amazing family members, and like I said, my husband is so good to me.

My youngest daughter who lives with us, she's a grown woman, but she's still hangs out with mom and dad, and she takes really good care of me when she knows I'm struggling. She really helps. Yeah. So I see. I'm apologizing for saying yes to that because I have people in my other one that was on the list, but I have people in my life that do that.

Yes. Yeah. I don't know who I'd be without the responsibility. Nope. I don't think so. You don't know? You don't think so? No. Okay. I fear disappointing my parents partner or friends. Yeah, I do. And I often wonder because life just. Keeps coming [00:35:00] at this pace. And one thing leads to another thing. As quick as you feel like, okay, we got past this difficult moment, boom, there's another one.

I often don't even, for instance, I didn't tell you what was going on with my dad for no, because I, I just didn't wanna have to be needy. I literally sent you a text and said, Hey, do you have a minute? I think I just need to talk to a friend for a minute. Yes. And, and that's not me. I don't do that. I'm more of the mindset when people want to talk to me, they will.

I'm not gonna make anybody talk to me. Yeah. I'm not gonna sit there and be that friend that's gonna force that. And I know sometimes for me, I think maybe it's the therapist, mine or whatever like that you've talked to always, you get used to talking to someone. I am, I'm a big disclosure. I'm a big person who's, okay, this is what I'm feeling.

I [00:36:00] gotta talk to this person to noodle my way out of this. I gotta talk. But at the same time, I am a middle child who is wanting to keep the peace, but I, here's a few more. I confuse being loved with being useful. Do you do that?

I, as quick as I wanna say, no, I don't think that's me. Uhhuh then I think is it? But I don't think that's as much. Yeah. The thing, it's not, I don't think I have this part of me that when somebody needs help, I just, yes, please. I'll do it. Because it makes me feel like, okay, they love me. Yeah. I can tell them I love them by being useful.

I don't think it's that kind of thing at all. Yes. Rest feels like laziness instead of healing. And can I tell you, I don't know if it's just my personality, but I've never been someone who, as a young woman, I didn't know what anxiety was. [00:37:00] I, I really didn't know it. I wasn't a big chronic worrier. I think my parents did a good job of making me feel secure.

I'm not saying it was perfect, but I think they did a good job. And even as a mom having babies and young children and teenagers growing, I really don't know that I ever had anxiety till I would say the past, I'd say the past 10 years. Wow. I started feeling intense anxiety and stress and that thing where even when I am resting, the thing I feel, the reason why I feel guilty is because I'm always churning inside.

And I'm churning because I'm usually thinking about. What I'm missing out on such and such time with my grandkids right now, or I'm missing out my poor mom. I wonder how she's handling [00:38:00] things right now, and so I'm thinking of all the other people. Yeah. And not that is wrong. Yeah. But I think my personality, the way it is being that older child, the daughter, the firstborn, I think all of that does play into being a caregiver and also think, I don't know that everybody's cut out to be a caregiver.

Right. I don't know that everybody has the heart to be that. Yeah. Some of us just aren't. Some people just their gifts are in other places, and I don't discredit them in any way for that. Yeah. I know even with my father, who he was, he loved Jesus. He had a bad problem with anger in children management. And I keep thinking, you know what?

I don't think he was cut out to be a caregiver. He was not cut out to be Yeah. A caregiver [00:39:00] as a father. He, even though I'm thankful for my life, I'm thankful for that. You have, when you've walked through something like that and you've gotten people, then you're like, okay, maybe your life would've been better.

Or maybe things if you just peel back those responsibilities. Yeah. Or you, or you don't jump into those kind of roles. And a lot of people who are, a lot of people who are forced into caregiving and then they get, there's a lot of cases of abuse and caregiving and those are pe those are, it's hard. Yet those people are not thing, yeah.

But they get it. They get it. They have to do it. They have to, either, it's, it can be forced upon you and, and it is a challenge because I know even with limited, not having to go and watch over my mom all the [00:40:00] time, sometimes just,

and it makes me feel guilty for thinking about it sometimes. Just the, there's an exhaustion from trying to manage a person I, and for short time. I think that is, I think I'm at a point now when I have those feelings, I also recognize that might be, maybe it's the Holy Spirit, maybe it's my body, but it might be, I'm being told.

Okay. Let's take a step back. For instance, I did not make it to see my parents today, the past few weeks with his extended hospital stay. And like I said, I watch grandchildren a couple days a week. I work a couple days a week. It's, I just get to this point where [00:41:00] I'm like, I need to just be in my house. I need to, a part of me wanted desperately to go shopping with my husband at Costco, and I was like, yeah, I think I need to sit my behind here.

And I knew we were gonna do this, but it was like I, I could have done something else. Yeah. And after I had a lunch today and I got my hair cut this morning, I was like, this is all I'm gonna fit into this day. Yeah. I kept looking at dust saying I need to dust. Yeah. Nope. I'm gonna sit here. Yeah. You know what?

One thing that you said to me a while back, and I can't remember exactly, we, I know we were at conference together a year ago, and you said you cannot feel guilty if you have to say no to going, going and being active at church. Mm-hmm. And you just have to No. And that's a hard thing. That is a hard thing.

It's hard. Hard because we have it so drummed in our mind. First of all, I think [00:42:00] that church sometimes has become, it's like the spirituality police. If you have to Ms. Church for some reason, it'd better be a good one. Huh. Somebody better be dying in the hospital. You better have a car that won't start you.

You'd better. We put that type of pressure on people, people who obviously love the Lord and wanna be there 'cause they're feeling guilty, right? Um, but it's like there are moments when I think the Lord, if this is supposed to be a Sabbath and a day of rest, sometimes you have to pull it all in. Just pull it all in and sit yourself down.

And I believe that we have forgotten what Sabbath is in our modern church society. We have forgotten what it is. And we have a bunch of church people who walk around feeling ashamed or guilty. [00:43:00] Or condemned if they have to take a break. Right. And we do everything within our church churches to have program after break program to have people involved to provide that community that the body of Christ gives.

And that's not a bad thing, it's just that we need to do better about making sure people recognize when you get to too much, it's okay to take a breather for a minute and you shouldn't have to feel guilty. Yeah. And I love that. I loved when you brought that to the realization of that because especially as a pastor's wife, you probably are under more scrutiny than a lot of people.

And to fi filling a warming a pew, or actually getting on stage or all of that, and we talked about it before, how your autoimmune issues played into that, but. I am like, there is a point in your life when you have to realize that you cannot [00:44:00] hold guilt for the things you cannot do, the capacity you do not have at the moment.

And God is okay with that. God is very okay with that. And I also think that at first be very upfront, my church does not pressure me at all. Yeah. Yeah. My husband does not pressure me. I think for me, your dogs pressure you to stay. The dogs pressure me. Yeah. I have one very naughty, almost 2-year-old Great Dane little girl who makes me like, if you chew up one more toy.

But yeah. So you know that support you've had, that has been Yeah, I, I have, and I've not, I think people also realize when I said some people aren't, I aren't really equipped to be a caregiver. I also mean we all have a personality. We come into this world just really with these facets [00:45:00] of design already in us.

I'm gonna cough for a minute, so we're gonna have to take this out.

It gets so hard for me. I don't know if you notice, but I often have to mute myself when we are recording this. As of my voice just goes to Airiness for a second and it feels like I'm choking, but I'm not. Yes. Yeah. So I do that every once in a while. I think it's under control now. So I just feel like some of us come into this world with personality traits that create in us just a, maybe a predisposition.

I don't feel like I have to be a caregiver. I feel like I want to be with those I love. It's not that I distrust the whole world to do the caring, maybe on some level, but for the most part, I feel like how much more [00:46:00] valuable is it to me to have time being the one doing that with the person I love, whether that's my children or my parent or my grand babies.

Yeah, my husband, whoever it is. So I feel like some of us also come into this earth just, I'm not saying ignorant, but just that's not one of the things high on what God put into them. Yeah. So I do think a lot of why I do what I do and how it just seems to be a part of who I am was because I would not want to, I want to be the one who cares.

I want to be the one who yes, nurtures and fills up. It just is. We talked about this too, even in friendships, I, I will probably always be the person who will send a text when we haven't talked in a long time and just, Hey, I'm thinking of you. How are you doing? [00:47:00] Send a funny joke. Gora, yes. Something, just because, and I'll be honest, I don't have a whole lot of friends that do that with me, but it's just, that's just who I am.

It's just what it's, I was a kid who wrote her, who wrote letters to her grandparents and her aunties and Oh wow. I just liked being that person. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed, yeah, enjoyed respective give and take of relationship with people. Yeah. And I think sometimes our personality plays into what kind of a caregiver we are too.

Yeah. I, I know we're running a little bit longer and I wanna kind of wrap things around this, but I have to ask this question. What would you say to a caregiver who's operating from a heart of woundedness? How can things turn around? How can they address [00:48:00] wounds and still serve? Or how can they move forward in that?

Because we talked about a lot about woundedness and how do you get, how do you make that, how do you heal that place when everything you do is out of trying to be accepted or loved right by others? I feel like it comes down, first and foremost to this. For me, I, I believe that my source is my heavenly father.

He is my source of joy and. He is my joy, my source of happiness. If my heart is broken and wounded, he's the source of my healing. Yes, I feel that I, I have something to say about whether or not I can forgive, and first of all, I have to admit that I need to forgive and that I need to move [00:49:00] forward. And the only one that can give me what I need to get to that place for me personally in my walk has been my heavenly Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit coming in and recognizing from the very beginning when the weight gets heavy or when the wounds are deep, that it's not my spouse's job.

To fill me up and fix me. It's not, it's really, it's not my pastor's job. It's not this reciprocal relationship that I have with my maker is the first thing I have to be sure I'm paying attention to. When I'm in that place, wounded, depleted, and I can't do what I do out of obligation. I need to do it from the source of strength that I have.

And I believe that ultimately for me comes from my relationship with Jesus. I don't know if that's exactly what you were thinking. Yeah. But that is, that is a big portion of [00:50:00] what I would encourage someone to do. One of the things that I've started to do in my daily practice is because it's easy to be emotionally pulled by people.

It's just the nature of a heart that cares. You're a heart that is a friend to everyone. Yeah. And that's the thing. You look at everyone, you're the kind of person, you have a client that pays you for a job and you're like, I have this friend that you have, everybody you interact with is your friend. So I'm sure you do feel that way is, and I've started, I, I've started, instead of just praying I, I've started, instead of just praying arbitrarily about God, whatever this is, this day cover, this day, I've started really praying intentionally in a journal way of asking God, what are my priorities today?

Firstly, what do I need to lay down today because this is [00:51:00] this. So eating through those emotions of what might be blocking me. Yeah. From my day, blocking me from focus. So I write those down, I listen, I write and listen, and I put those things down. Yeah. And then I say, okay, where are the areas that I need to focus?

Sometimes I have to put the list of what I have to do ahead of those areas. Exactly. And then I have to say, God, I need, so when you said organize your day, I've started being very intentional about organizing my day in a prayerful, listening to where God says, this is important, this is nice, this is necessary, and I think it's okay to.

We might have this idea that's this big of everything that the day I, this has to be it. But then the Holy Spirit helps you pull it in. Yeah. And you [00:52:00] start to recognize, yeah. Like you said, when you pray about this and ask him for input. Yeah. He gives you specific direction. Yeah. And you know what I have to do?

I have to be very intentional a, about the things I feel obligated to people for. And it, and that motivation for doing it, I have to think of, is this because, mm-hmm I feel guilty, I want acceptance or anything like that. 'cause I have to be clear in my head about where those desires to help are connected to.

And I have to. Actually help. God has to unpeel those areas in my head. Exactly. And then I have to be able to say, okay, now I know. Okay. I'm gonna have to let this go. So when you, when yes. When you realize what your mo, what your motivation is and you re recognize that it might not be, does not God's best for you, how do you backpedal [00:53:00] out of that?

Especially when it has to do with other people? How do you personally backpedal? How do you say, okay, God, I hear you and you're right. This isn't the right motivation. This isn't a view. What do you do? The thing about it is I've started to, instead of saying yes all the time, I've had, I had to say, and I had to do a Lisa.

I've had to say, let me think about that because my intentional response is yes, that's not my, that, that is not a good in intent. It's not an intention, it's not intentional. My ki my nerve, what do you call it when you hit the My reflex. My reflex is to say, yes, my thoughtfulness is to pause. And that only happens and I say yes in the reflex.

And I say, let me think about that. And then I actually can bite it down into [00:54:00] motivation. Ah, but I can just, if I, if you never. Commit to a specific thing while you're under the pressure of a person in your face or in your text messaging, or the urgency of, I'm an emergency, blah, blah, blah, blah. I've had to disconnect myself from urgency.

You have to. You have to, and I do believe that the Holy Spirit can help us learn a balance. There are parts of life that I know we co consider boring. They're just every day in and day out, and I think more than anything for women specifically, we look at even childcare, taking care of children or little people.

Our children, there they go again, the dog. We look at children and [00:55:00] we're like. I have to take care of the babies. I have to do this. And instead of recognizing that sometimes those regular tempos of life, you need to brush your teeth, right? You need to get a shower. You need to clean up after yourself. When you get yourself something to eat, you need to keep the dirty clothes where they go.

Those simple little things in life help us with the pace, especially as a caregiver, right? You have to literally determine what is most important in these moments. That's so true, and it's not always the urgency of what other people are saying we should be paying attention to. Exactly. That is most important.

Yeah, sometimes just being able to recognize you because we will literally do not so healthy things, not so good for us, not so kind to ourselves. Things [00:56:00] to keep up with that urgency everybody else has for our life. When the reality is it's okay to brush your teeth. Yep, it is To make your bed. If you want to wash your hair, wash your hair, and you shouldn't feel.

You have to cheat yourself out of those moments to do it. I was listening to a podcast this week, and if I say this and people listen to the podcast, you're all gonna know exactly what it was. But a mom on the podcast was talking about what the everything shower is opposed to what a mom shower is. A mom shower is, you jump in, the kids are there, you don't want anything to go wrong.

You wash under your arms, you wash the lower region, you wash your hair, you're out. Yes. But the everything shower, you exfoliate, you moisturize, you shave. You do it all. What's that exactly? It's just we feel like we have to give up self care, those things that might help [00:57:00] us, those normal rhythm things of the day.

We cheat ourselves out of those moments. Yeah, I know. Ultimately. I am no supreme perfect caregiver. Yes. It's just who I am. It's a season I'm in, and caregiving has shifted from little brothers to my own babies, to my mom, to my grandchildren, to now my dad. I feel like it's really key, especially with my limitations physically, to learn what you just said.

Learn how to say no. Mm-hmm. And not do that. Knee jerk. Yes. Because believe me. Mm-hmm. Lisa used to be able to rock and roll. Can I just say that with Yes. Free bit of confidence. Yeah. I could rock. I could rock and roll. Yes. The hours I didn't need to sleep. I could stay up, I could do what I needed to do.[00:58:00] 

You know what? Not that person anymore. So part of me has to understand that this season is still just as cool as those other seasons. And can I add one more thing that Yes caregivers need to do when you are in a very heavy schedule of caring for other people? Always remember that you can start to feel cheated, frustrated when you don't do things to care for yourself.

Yes. So take the time. Take the little longer shower. You know what I do? I joke around and say I've probably been in, we joked around about saying I was an adult when I was, I felt the stress and the pressure at the age of eight. But I am finally in my real granny era. I get to crochet. Yeah. The grand [00:59:00] babies sent me home with stuffies That need surgery.

Yes. I get to sew them back together. Wow. Um, I get to prioritize Saturday morning flag football for my twin granddaughters. Wow. Watching the games. Yes. There's a lot of heavy stuff. It is not easy to watch your parents age and to recognize that your days, your months are limited with them. It's hard to think of life without them there, but God has also given me things to do that help put.

Back into me. Yeah. And being my family or crocheting a really cute something or other. Yeah. Make sure you find what those things are that refresh you. Yeah. Because I know we love the Lord and he feeds us and he energizes us, but I do believe there are simple joys in life. Yeah. That he can give us, [01:00:00] that can give us a really great kick in the pants every once in a while.

Yeah. That are just, they just bring you joy. We took the family to the Irish Fest. I was exhausted. Yeah. I'd been in the ER the day before my dad was in the hospital, but by golly, we walked all over that Irish fest because. It was just joyful to see. Yeah, our grandbabies enjoy themselves. It's so funny too, and you say that, enjoy enjoying yourself.

And I know that even having my own new office space, that there's some things that I've forgotten that I love to do and it that's so easy to do. It is so easy to just, oh my goodness. And I've been keeping up with Lisa, with my obsession with, I'm like, I'm like, Amber, you are so late to the party. There are so many different, I have programs [01:01:00] and I have a list for you, Amber.

I've been watching it for years now. But it's, I, it's like that you watch those 30, those five minute YouTube and that's it, but reconnecting with those things and that you loved and taking a turn about the room and I, every night I make myself a hot cup of peppermint tea and just turn down the lights and watch the little glowing glows going on and it's, it's really amazing how re reconnecting with the things that you love eases the things that you know you have to do.

You have to get done, the obligation you have to get done. So. If you can ease your mind, then you're being a steward of your body. You're being a good steward of the very life God's given you. Yeah. So it's important I a crochet needle [01:02:00] or watch you learn crochet. I would love to crochet for you. I love to do the next coffee chat with crocheted.

Lisa,

you don't wanna know this, but right now there are a couple of containers here beside my desk of yarn. Ooh, yarn. Yes, it's, I have projects to do. Lisa is a yarn dealer. I tell you what she has. So she has this ash, something about the colors, the textures. I can't say no to some things like that. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

No, but seriously, you have to find those things. Who is. The, the organizational woman, if it sparks joy. Yes. Yes. Was it Maria Con Condor? I can't remember the name. Yes. And that's gonna bother me that I can't remember [01:03:00] anyway. Yes. In joy. God intended for you to have joys in life. Yeah. So I think as we get older, those joys get a little simpler.

Yeah. We start to recognize what, what brings us joy. And maybe it's not as big and flashy as it was when we were younger, but. Yeah, find what those things are. Why don't you wrap up this Price Pro, the, let's wrap up the podcast. Why don't you wrap it up with, in a word of prayer over wrap up. Wrap it up.

Would love to. Yeah. Heaven, me. Father, I thank you for this time with Amber tonight, and I pray right now for anybody that might be listening, might be watching, I pray for the person, the, the woman, the man that might be in a period of life where caregiving has become very difficult and it has become a weight that they honestly resent.

Or maybe [01:04:00] it's a weight that makes them feel as if there there is no more joy in life. I ask you to first and foremost remind them that you are the carrier of R. Weights, we are to cast our cares on you and remind us, God, that you have broad shoulders and you are here to walk with us when the load is heavy, to assist us and to bring zip to our step as well as to bring just an, an underlying strength to our countenance, to our spirit.

And I'm grateful God, that you are always present to do that for the caregiver that just feels like they can't take another thing. I ask that you just give them peace and calm. Show them something. Right now that is in their [01:05:00] life that you would like them to slow down and just have a moment doing, being with you in those moments.

It's not the big flashy things God, it's the still small moments where we can just get back to the basics of, have I drank enough water today? Do I need to go to the bathroom? And I really should have gone a long time ago. I know we giggle over those things, but those are real things. Have I eaten at 2:00 PM and if I haven't, God help me to find something nutritious to put in my mouth.

God, give us the presence of mind to know that time spent with you, even if it's just a few moments in prayer or listening to music, that it is time well spent and that there is purpose. And Father, I pray for those caregivers that are maybe needing care themselves, whether that's they need care in their heart, their mind, or their [01:06:00] physical bodies.

I just ask, Lord God, that you would send people to them to help lighten their load in a physical way, God in a way that will allow them to be fresh and rested and at peace in the hardest situations. We love you Jesus. Amen. Amen. Thank you guys for joining us today. This is exciting. I get to try my first.

Okay, so this is, this is my birthday week. My birthday week is coming up. It is. Yeah. I'm just having a birthday. I know. Just one more, one more notch on my half century mark. More the, I get to have my first scalp facial. In which they scrape all the dead skin off of your scalp. This is the first time I've ever experienced this.

So we will see what that is like. And [01:07:00] I will report next time on my scalp facial. What? So I get to have over 50 years of dead skin removed from my scalp. So we're gonna see what that looks like. Hopefully it's not 50 years old. Hopefully your skin has regenerated a bit. Oh my goodness. I have never ever, I know I didn't hear it.

I've never heard of it before, but one of my, one of the latest. I think it's a luxury just to find myself a new jar of ponds moisturizer. And you are going to avenue. I'm gonna go get my scraped. I hope they don't take off my scalp. We'll see if I come back with hair next time. And. But we also would love you to check out the check out our podcast on.

We're all over the place, apple, Spotify, anywhere you can get your podcasts. We're there and we're on YouTube. We have over 50 shows on our YouTube channel, so if you would go and can subscribe and share, [01:08:00] we would love, love, love that you would do that and that would be awesome. Spread the word, spread the coffee, spread the love, and spread the care caregiving by just simply sharing episodes.

Sharing episodes. Yes, I would love that. See you guys. Take care and have a great Saturday actually. Take care. Have a great day wherever you are in your week, whatever day it is. Bye.