Episode 11: Mark Allred - Attracting the right employees

In this episode, you'll meet Mark Allred. He's the Director of Talent Development and Growth for Reveal Global Intelligence and oversees all aspects of the Reveal Talent Community which provides coaching and career support for professionals. He's also the host of the Career PROgression Podcast (https://revealtalent.com/resources/). 

Want to make sure recruiters can't coax your best employees away? Check out what Mark has to say. Here's a few tidbits....
1:30     Gen Z in the workplace
8:46     COVID is the unsung hero for American workers
11:17   Culture wants from employees
16:39   Workplace Drivers
20:27   Flexibility in work
22:30   Re-recruiting employees

You can learn more from Mark, an numerous other business leaders, in my book Culture Secrets (link below). 

Thanks for listening. Grab the book the original podcast is based on at https://mybook.to/culturesecrets . Want more quick leadership tips? Sign up for my FREE bi-weekly newsletter: Coffee, Culture and Common Sense.  

Check out my website www.chelliephillips.com for more great content. Follow me on LinkedIn.  

Transcript

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Chellie Phillips: 0:06

If workplace culture is your jam, you're in the right place. Check out this episode of culture secrets, the podcast dedicated to creating workplaces where both employees and the companies thrive. Today's guest is Mark Allred. After years in sales with consistent high results, building strong employee cultures and maximizing business partnerships in the wireless industry, Mark pursued and achieved his coaching certification. He now works with professionals to help reconnect them with their purpose and navigate career transitions. He's the director of talent development and growth for reveal global intelligence and oversees all aspects of the revealed talent community, which provides coaching and career support for professionals. We begin today's conversation discussing the new generation entering the workforce, and he shares how we may have some misconceptions. So let's dive right in. Like so what are you seeing since you're doing work with college students and everything? What are you seeing right now?

Mark Allred: 1:04

Well, so it's interesting, I did a presentation about Generation Z. And what's happening is they're coming into the workplace. And that gave me the opportunity to pause a little bit and just do a little study about what what's happening with them. And there were some very interesting things. And I brought my notes, because it's been a while since I've had the material wanted to give you some solid notes that you can look with. So here's some interesting statistics about this. Gen Z. I mean, this is from an indeed, survey, 58% of them are already saying that they're burned out at work, they've only been in the workforce for just a little while. So you know, some of that is I think there's a lot of pressure when you're the new person coming in, there's a lot to learn, etc. We've all kind of been through that. But it seems to be a little bit more rampant with them. We all know a lot of the things about what what's interesting about the generation and the fact their attention span is pretty quick. In it, they've been raised on things like Instagram and Facebook, and now you got tick tock, where they're just flipping through things so very quickly, so it's really tough to engage them. There's a staff here, I want to give you the exact number, as far as what percentage were saying how long they were going to be with with the job. So 55% of them said they plan to look for a new job in the next three years. So that 55 I mean, more than half of them two and 10 plan to stay with their company for seven years. And if you compare that to Gen Xers, when they were asked the same question 72% of Gen Xers said they plan to stay at least seven years. So you know, they're very rapidly moving group of individuals. But here's the thing. I mean, they are I think they're a lot sharper and more connected than than a lot of folks maybe give them credit for, you know, it seems like every generation is saying about previous generations. Nobody wants to work hard anymore. And they're getting blasted with that moniker. But that's funny. There was another study that I read recently that if you go back and you look at newspaper articles that go back over a century, they're all saying the same thing about those generations. So the more things change, the more they stay the same this generation is they're coming into the workplace, I mean, what we need to understand is that they do you have short attention spans, we need to learn how to refine those and work those. But here's the surprising thing that that I'm finding personally about them. And I'm actually seeing studies written as well. They are very receptive to coaching and mentoring. And I think that surprises folks, I know, I mean, I'm a Gen X er, and if you you kind of consider what our generations were like we were we were very much a generation who felt like we had to have this right, we had to get it right, we had to be the one to do this, we asking for help was a sign of weakness, that's really not the case for for Gen Z, they will take help. Now here's the difference, they won't necessarily ask for it. They won't necessarily ask for it. That's not what I'm fine. But when it's offered, they tend to take it and, and really lean into it may give me some examples. So been able to work with a lot of kids coming out of school, like you mentioned, most of them have been had been young men. And you know, the way our program works is we tend to work with the program or the parents, they tend to fund it. It's that last thing to just help connect the dots with their kids between college and the real world. A lot of the parents that I talked to say wow, and you're probably gonna have a tough time keeping them focused. They just don't, they're there. Their work ethic isn't what needs to be yada, yada. So they prepare me for all of these things that I'm going to see when I work with their kid. And I rarely see that whenever they get in here and then get somebody who's willing to work with them and to fill them and really and really just walk alongside them at this particular point. They soak it up way our program works is we, you know, we do a coaching session, we work on very specific things, and there's a lot of homework and then they we come back together and almost all the time, they come back prepared, they've done the hard work that needs to be done, and they're ready to move forward. So I've been very impressed by how well this generation is taking to coaching. Here's the thing, a lot of organizations I don't think have put themselves in a position to be very good coaching organizations, I think you're starting to see some of that happen. And you're starting to see them recognize the need for it, but it needs to ramp up in a bigger way. And you bring a you bring a new employee and and, you know, you ask, Hey, are you doing all right? Or is everything going? Well, it's very easy for them to say, Yeah, I'm doing fine and move on. You got to go a little bit deeper, you have to kind of talk to me about what's going on. Where are you? Where are you struggling right now? What's been the biggest challenge for you since you've been here? What are some ways that I can help you? It's those kinds of coaching questions, those open ended questions that go a long way with this generation, the lot to be said that it's not just this generation, I think other generations respond well to it as well. And certainly with COVID, and all the chaos that it's caused, I think organizations really need to think a lot more about how they're pouring into their employees and the time they're getting in not letting the day to day busyness, get in the way of employee develop. Because you also know we're with a recruiting company. And part of what our recruiters do all the time is they're looking for employees who aren't happy. So they can introduce new opportunities, and bring them on this wonderful golden bridge to the new opportunity. And the only way that that's going to be stopped is if you've already made your employees happy employees, and they're thrilled with where they are. And they're happy to say no thank you to those opportunities. So let me pause, there was a lot to unpack what did you hear that you had other questions about?

Chellie Phillips: 7:00

So there's two things I want to talk about from what you said. The first is the coaching, because I think we're finding that a lot is that it's not just supervising your supervisory level, you've got to do a lot of work there before you can really impact the culture outward. Because a lot of people have been moved into those roles based on the tenure that they have with some place or the fact that they're good at a particular skill. But they're not necessarily taught how to manage people, the difference between between supervising and coaching, kind of kind of want to unpack that just a little bit. And then the other thing, so I don't forget is that you talked about on the recruiting side is that when you see people that are unhappy, that's where you poach them, and you send them to new opportunities that are out there. So what are you hearing from that group of people? What is it that's making them unhappy? If you had to like the top five things that are keeping me down in the workplace?

Mark Allred: 7:54

One thing that's been popular for years is this notion that you don't quit a company, you quit your boss, and that hasn't gone away. That is definitely has been, and I think will continue to be in the top, certainly top five of why people tend to not be happy. If you've got a leader like you're describing who's very good at the task, but doesn't know how to bring the best out of people and doesn't know how to coach and mentor that's becoming more problematic, particularly in an environment right now. Where there are jobs to be had. There are opportunities out there. I mean, I mean, you had a lot of folks through the great resignation, decide, you know, I'm gonna go and get out of this. That was one of the things that I thought was interesting about COVID. I'm going to take a quick sidebar, and then I'll get back on track for him. I wrote a blog about COVID was kind of like the unsung hero or the unlikely hero of the American worker. So you remember the movie Shrek, or the ogre goes to the tower. Nobody expected him to be one to save the princess. But he did. You know, COVID was kind of like that ogre. He didn't necessarily intend to save him. But but he did. What what happened is when COVID came along, everything paused. Everybody went home. And we had been under the spell of busyness. We've just been in the in the day to day and we've been running so fast. We didn't really stop to think about, Do I like what I'm doing. So when COVID happened, and we all went home and we got into the quiet of being quarantined in our homes. We stopped to think and a lot of folks said, I don't think I like my job. I don't realize I mean, and so it changed that mentality and all the things like we're getting ready to talk about here. It came to the forefront of their mind and they started considering other things. Leadership. Absolutely. That's a piece of it there. A lot of people liked the idea of living at home that is that is becoming, you know, at least an employer showing some flexibility in that level of work life balance continues to show up. It's funny in some of the recruiting I've been doing recently that that's becoming a common question. Question while I work from home now, what is that environment like? So that's definitely something that still needs to be considered. Money's still on the table. If if you as an employer aren't doing your homework as far as what is fair compensation for the kind of work that I'm asking folks to do, the problem is that information is getting so public. And it's so easy to go out and find right here, in my case, Charlotte, North Carolina, in this role, what's the competitive salary? What are people paying? It used to be, you couldn't necessarily find that stuff out easily? Well, now, it's very easy to find. And believe me, recruiters are telling folks that so if you fallen behind the times, and you're not paying fairly for the kind of work that you're doing, that could show up as a problem, too.

Chellie Phillips: 10:53

I'm hearing more from the college students that I've worked with, they're seeing all these stories about say like your Googles or your your Facebook's that have ping pong tables and beanbags and all this other kinds of stuff. And that's what they're associating with. These are great cultures. How smart is this next generation coming in going? What's bells and whistles? And what is genuine culture inside an organization?

Mark Allred: 11:17

You know ,I think they're smarter than you think, you know, they see those things. And I think they're intrigued by them. You know, again, I've talked with folks and things and I don't know that they necessarily are as enchanted by that as some folks would have you believe. It's all it's all fun to think that but you know, you have a ping pong table table in office with a manager is still overbearing and doesn't pay attention to your needs and things. Ping Pong is just a little release for a little while, right. And here's an interesting thing that's kind of in the line of that from another article that I read that this generation is actually pretty open to being back in the office, you know, there was one young lady who she started her career in COVID. And they had to do it remotely because she couldn't, couldn't be in the office. And the way she described it was, it was kind of like, my career was a video game, that I was just sitting at home playing this game. That was my career, and I didn't like it. And I wanted to be, you know, among people and things. So not to say that this generation isn't also intrigued by the idea of working at home, but I don't think they're as much as some folks might think. And I think they are savvy with understanding, you know, what truly culture is that? I think, at the end of the day, they want, they want to be respected. They want to be heard. They want to have the opportunity to have the freedom to make some mistakes, but also be coached and mentored when that happens. So at which, you know, geez, we talked about that with Gen Z. But you and I are from a different generation. That stuff sounds pretty good to me, too.

Chellie Phillips: 12:55

Yeah. I said, I wouldn't turn any of that down. Like that. So if you are talking to a CEO about making an impact on their culture, and we're talking about this giving employees a voice, especially on the coaching model, what is the selling point for them to say that, Oh, it's not just mindset, it's not just some hoodoo voodoo that that these are real things that it can impact your organization in a positive way? What if you had that that one moment with them to convince them that you should really try this model? You should do that kind of stuff? What's the selling point for that?

Mark Allred: 13:30

And I think, I think you got to point to success. Because if you're somebody who's been in a command and control culture for your entire career, and you've seen it work, and here's the thing, command and control does work it just as in short term, right, you can get you can beat folks into submission and get some good results short term, but you're going to you're going to be dealing with churn employee turnover a lot. So I think the importance is, if you want to make that argument to a CEO that is, is a little skeptical about doing that. I think you need to point to some examples where it's worked. And you have to have realistic examples. And here's the thing where some of my answers is going to be colored by what what I'm doing right now. Are you familiar with Stephen? Mr. Covey? Yeah, that Stephen Covey's son who's taken over since the past, he's got a new book out called trust and inspire so much in there, including examples where he talks about a CEOs of other organizations who, who's stepped out of this command and construct troll structure and has gotten more into the Inspire and trust kind of scenario. I'm trying to remember specific stories Forgive me if I butcher this, and I forget what where the CEO was, but he was appointed to the position and he said, You know, I always feel like leaders need to be chosen by the people as a whole. And so he told the folks that the No Hey, I'm going to do this job for a year but in a year, I'm going to put information out here just to see if you guys want Need to continue. So it'll be a survey to put out there. And you guys based on my performance and what I do and how I lead and the trust that I try to create all the things that I say, if I do it, I'm gonna let you guys decide whether I stay. And if if you choose not to have me stay, I'll move on. So very, very bold. I think he had like a 98% approval rating. So that's a pretty compelling story. And something honestly, I think a lot of CEOs would probably be very frightened of doing. Typically, if they haven't adjusted the model. Yeah.

Chellie Phillips: 15:33

So yeah, there's a there's a couple of hidden paths that I wouldn't mind putting that out for them. Yeah. I think another thing we were talking about earlier, is like the great resignation, that that people are reevaluating what work means to them. And we're hearing more and more about that I want to feel like I have some kind of impact not just on the work that I'm doing, but on other people, how big does that play into what you're seeing on the on the recruiting side, and folks wanting to change that they're wanting to see the value that they're bringing in some kind of way, whether it's through philanthropic work, or whether it's impacting in a customer service relationship, like taking care of somebody with an issue, or even internally, maybe the organization has its own projects where they're making a difference in the community? You know,

Mark Allred: 16:27

the answer I give you this is it depends. And let me explain because I think I've been guilty of, of trying to paint with too broad a brush myself with people with regard to meaning of board. One of the things whenever we're talking with candidates, and when I'm coaching, when I'm coaching with some of these young, new professionals, particularly the place where we start is what we refer to as career drivers. And our CEO Mark Hutto has, has spent over 30 years working with folks and working with him about their careers and things. And many, he determined there were really five areas that motivate people about the work they do. One of them is what we're talking about here, the meaning of the work. The other one is leadership and management. So that was what we were talking about earlier, you know, how you interact with your leader, what kind of inspiration you're getting from them. Another one is the environment that gets into the work life balance, working from home potentially could be the environment like the ping pong table, all that stuff, we were talking about there to compensation and benefits, you know, that's going to be in there, how high does that rank? And then finally, personal and professional development? What's your ability to be developed? So, you know, we start with folks, we ask them, so what's important to you, when it comes to your work? How would you rank those, and it surprises me how different people's responses are, for me, it's always been the meaning of the work, you know, I'll take less money to do work that I feel like is having an impact. I mean, the work I do now I'm making, I'm making a lot less than I used to make as a district manager doing work that I was doing in wireless, but I love what I do now, so much more. And it's the perfect sector. But not everybody is built that way. I remember talking to one and this isn't one of my younger classes would have been one of my older ones. And he said, you know, meaning of the work is going to be ranked lower for me because here's the thing, I go to work to provide for my family. I you know, I want to be well compensated, yes, I want to do work. That's ethical. But it doesn't necessarily have to be meaningful. No, because, you know, that's what I do with my church. That's what I do with my volunteer time. So I'm not expecting work to fill that space. And I respect that. So I think I think you have to take that question deep that leaders need to think about, you can't paint with too broad a brush and just expect everyone on your team is in it because of the meaning of the work, they're going to be many. And that is a very popular one. A lot of the people that I talked to meaning of work ranks very high, but not everyone. So in those circumstances, how do you respect them for what they consider is valuable. And support them in that way?

Chellie Phillips: 18:55

It's kind of gets back to the same thing is that not everybody cares about that promotion, maybe happy where they are like I don't want to go home with an extra stress, thinking about what's going on. Like I'm happy performing what I do, I have a paycheck, that takes care of it. And I don't necessarily care about making that next leap and adding to my responsibilities and doing that kind of thing. And you've got to have those people there. There are certain certain folks that you just need to get the job done is task oriented. And that's what I want to do. And I don't want to when I leave at five, I don't want ever have to worry about it again. Same kind of concept. I think what you're talking about what the other.

Mark Allred: 19:27

Yeah, and if I could be so bold to say that I think that's one of the problems with a lot of leaders today is because they try to force that on their employees, whether it be you know, if it's a sales team, they just expect you know, making more money and being stack ranked higher than everybody else is what motivates them. Same thing with what you're saying with the promotion. I think we get programmed to believe that I need to want that promotion and if if folks aren't led well, and they are just blindly following that sometimes They follow and they they get into these promotions and find themselves very quickly in careers that they don't want to be in. And that's one of the reasons why they're leaving. Once they wake up,

Chellie Phillips: 20:10

yeah, I've seen that happen. If you put your crystal ball on for a moment that the, you know, the rosy colored glasses, a whole nine yards, yeah, you can see, future wise, 510 years down the road from now, what do you think the ideal workplace will look like for the employee?

Mark Allred: 20:27

I think it's gonna have to be flexible, I think that's going to be a huge word. As we get into that, I mean, there's so many factors, mean COVID introduced this whole new factor of hey, we can make it work working in home flexibility. In a we've for years been on this track, where it's very, very common. In fact, it's become an uncommon not to have a to a dual income family. So you got mom and dad both working, and there's still kids who need to be schooled and things. And so they're things gonna need to be done. So as long as we continue to have, you know, a mom, dad working the workforce thing that's going to require flexibility, there's so much automation every day artificial intelligence and is replacing jobs. So you're getting to a place where even, you know, the amount of work that's available, is not what it used to be, we're gonna have to come to terms with that in a bigger way, and reevaluate things that we would never have thought we would reevaluate, like before COVID. I don't think there were many organizations who were even considering working from home. Well, now that's changed the 40, the 40 Hour Workweek, yeah. How does that look, I got another guest that is coming on the podcast that she owns a company that employees work for her. But they, what is it called my work, I think is what it's called. But these these factories and big big operations, rely on them to fill gaps and schedules, when people can't show up, they bring their folks in. And so they basically, they sign up, they make themselves available for whatever shifts they want to be available for. It's kind of like Uber for factory workers. And I asked her, how's that working for you, she says, It's phenomenal. So these people are able to kind of build their own schedule. They say, you know, this week, I want to work third shift next week, I want to work second shift this week, I don't want to do weekends. And so they're building their own schedule, and they're putting it out there. And these companies have that need. And they're plugging them in. I'm thinking, so it's all done by app. So you know, that's kind of cool, and who the thought is something like that a few few years ago. So I think learning how to be more flexible is important. And the other side of that is I think relatable. I mean, you've just got to understand your workers at a higher level now. Me I'm sorry. But I think that's just a part of what the world is. And because there are other opportunities. If you don't choose to do that, it's your choice. But you know, other folks may be stealing those people from you then.

Chellie Phillips: 23:08

So to keep the employee that you have and not let them get to your recruiters.

Mark Allred: 23:14

Why didn't say no, and we? I'm not sure I should be telling you.

Chellie Phillips: 23:18

What should a company be measuring more of? We've all heard of the employee engagement surveys and different things like that. But if you could give them some advice about what's the one thing you should really keep the pulse on? What should you really be looking at to make sure that you know what's going on inside your organization? What would that be

Mark Allred: 23:35

I presented in front of it was the same group and just different presentation, we have a process around our company called RE recruiting you to reveal and we do it yearly, some companies really need to consider doing it quarterly or at least twice a year. And it's it's the process of okay, you take that career driver conversation, and you find out how folks, you know, hey, this is what motivates me about my work, and you understand what those things are, and you do the best you can and you can't ever be fully accommodate, but you do the best you can to really try to meet people where they are you motivate them through what motivates them, not what you think, you know, every so often you need to check in and say how are we doing? So we talked about the beginning, this was the kind of culture that you wanted, and this is what you were looking for with your boss. And this is what you were looking for, with the dedication of the team. Now, right, where you feel like we're doing and where you see us having opportunities, and then be very willing to have a real conversation with them about that. And this isn't about just kowtowing to, you know, every every whim your employee has i i give people more credit most people that they're reasonable. So I think you can have that conversation and you can you can say, You know what, we're not able to do the work from home thing. And here's why. And I think it's there's certain organizations that no die you Got to have people in there. And I think people get that. So that's what that's what I would say is the biggest thing is to make sure that you've got a touch point where you can do a quick pulse check.

Chellie Phillips: 25:12

I love re-recruiting you, I love that.

Mark Allred: 25:17

You know, for I think, I think our field that was $500 to use it.

Chellie Phillips: 25:21

I mean, I'm talking about professional side right now, I was like, I don't want to be in touch about this later on. I just think that that's such a neat thing. Like because, you know, once you get on, you tend to think, Okay, I've got them, you know, and I think that's a mistake. Well, I'm thinking about utility specific right now, because that's what I'm in my professional career. There's such a demand for line workers and between contractors and all the different companies right now. We're hitting a retirement boom, for a lot of folks that have been there, how do we keep somebody here and not moving someplace for a two $3 difference? You know, like, what are we doing to you know, I keep them, especially with some of the contract work that's out there. They're paying huge, huge bonuses and stuff. But they're a lot of what they're not hearing or what they're not processing, because there are a lot of our younger line workers that are leaving to go in those areas. Yeah, is that it's a it's they're hiring you for a specific work. And while you might be able to stay locally right now and do that work, when that contracts up, you may be sent to Florida, or you may be sent to New Mexico, or you may be sent to whatever wherever the next contract is. So it may not be as promising as what you thought, if you are raising a family here and your family's here, or different things like that. You might have to upgrade everybody. Yeah, but they're not really presenting the whole picture or whatever. And a lot of our younger line workers, not just not here, but industry wide, don't know the right questions to ask, they're seeing that big number, and they're like going, Oh, I could do this. I can get my new bass boat, or I can do this, or I can do that. And it's like, but then you're like, Okay, you're stuck on that contract stuff. You're stuck with them and wherever they send you.

Mark Allred: 26:52

Well, and I think I think what makes folks vulnerable to losing somebody for two extra dollars an hour is they either forget why the other reasons they want to stay or none of that came to fruition. So I mean, going back to the RE recruiting anything, if if when you start and this is ideally the way it is there, it should be you start, we get on the same page about Alright, here's what we're offering. As far as culture goes, here's what we're offering as far as your leadership interaction goes, compensation, everything. How does that all sound? That sounds great. Okay, great. You join the organization, if we never talk about that again, and that's never revisited. And then a lot of the things just never happen, then when somebody comes to offer two more dollars, and I say to him, we'll remember all the reasons why you signed up, you know, we were going to do this this Yeah. But I've never seen those things. We've never done those things. And that's why it's important to have that sit down. And because sometimes you think you're providing them you think in your mind's eye that I am taking care of my employees. But if you can have the courage to sit down and find out sometimes you find I'm not doing as good a job as I thought process is not reality all the time. Yeah. And that's really important. Because here's the truth about recruiters. I mean, my job is to find the warts where you are, you know, how are you being taken care of? Are you satisfied with your leadership there? Well, not really. How about your work life balance? How are they paying you? What's the environment, like, again, going right down those career drivers, and I'm trying to create an environment for you to recognize that I'm really not happy there. And if you're not happy, and I now say, Okay, and here's an opportunity that now presents a whole new hope, if you want to shut a recruiter out, the answers to those questions should be no, I'm really happy with all of that they take such good care of me. It's actually refreshing when I talk to care candidates that I hear them say that because it is a blessing to have good work.

Chellie Phillips: 28:40

I know the difference of being one that we're some where somebody is not doing that and where they are I you carry that away from work with you. You know, like you carry it home with you. You carry it with his interactions with your friends, you know, like you're having lunch and all you do is complain about what's going on versus what's happening in your life. Well, I won't keep you any more. I know you're busy. I really appreciate you talking with me.

Mark Allred: 29:00

Good to talk to you again. You too. All right. Take care. Have a good one. You too. Bye. Bye.

Chellie Phillips: 29:05

Bye. Do you look at Gen Z a little differently? What about how meaningful work looks different to different people? I know Mark gave us a lot of great info to process. One truth he shared is about how important it is for leadership to be touching base with employees, especially new hires to make sure their career drivers are being met. And that we're delivering on our hiring promises. Check the show notes for more ways that you can connect with Mark. Thanks for listening to culture secrets. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe, drop me a rating and share the link with a friend. The book by the same man is now available on Amazon. If you want to learn more, or perhaps have me come lead a discussion with your company or organization, visit my website at WWW dot Chellie phillips.com That's C H E L L I E P H I L L IPS.com. And remember, building a value culture is your competitor. that advantage and the backbone of any successful organization