From Top Performer to Trusted Leader - Tess Fyalka

In this episode, Chellie Phillips welcomes Tess Fyalka to the Culture Secrets Podcast for a conversation about what happens when high-performing employees step into leadership roles and discover that leading people requires a very different set of skills.

Tess is the founder of Angle Coaching and Communication and the author of Walking the Leadership Ledge: The “New” Leaders’ Guide to Building Resilience and Confidence at Every Step. Her work focuses on helping leaders build the confidence, communication skills, and team alignment needed to lead effectively.

Chellie and Tess discuss why new leaders often struggle with delegation, accountability, difficult conversations, and communication. Tess shares how leaders can stop assuming people “just know” what success looks like and start creating clarity through regular conversations, feedback, and shared expectations.

They also explore Tess’s Team Alignment Pact, a tool that helps teams define what trust, communication, accountability, and respect look like in action. As Tess explains, culture doesn’t improve because people agree on nice-sounding words. It improves when teams define the behaviors behind those words and revisit them often.

Key takeaways from this episode:

The shift from individual contributor to leader requires a new mindset.

Delegation is not just about taking work off your plate; it is about developing your people.

Avoiding accountability conversations often protects the leader more than the employee.

Regular feedback makes difficult conversations less scary and more productive.

Communication styles that worked before promotion may not work the same way in leadership.

Team alignment depends on defining what trust, respect, accountability, and communication look like in action.

Curiosity is one of the simplest and most powerful tools a leader can use to build a stronger team.

Connect with Tess Fyalka:

Website: walkingtheleadershipledge.com
Business Website: anglecoaching.com
LinkedIn: Search for Tess Fyalka
Book: Walking the Leadership Ledge is available on Amazon in Kindle, Audible, and paperback formats.

Learn more from Chellie Phillips:

Visit chelliephillips.com for resources, speaking information, podcast episodes, and more insights on building strong people-first workplace cultures.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a new leader, manager, or colleague who is learning how to lead with more clarity, confidence, and courage.

Thanks for listening. Grab the book the original podcast is based on at https://mybook.to/culturesecrets . Want more quick leadership tips? Sign up for my FREE bi-weekly newsletter: Coffee, Culture and Common Sense.  

Check out my website www.chelliephillips.com for more great content. Follow me on LinkedIn.  

Transcript

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Chellie Phillips: 0:06

If workplace culture is your jam, you're in the right place. Check out this episode of Culture Secrets, the podcast dedicated to creating workplaces where both employees and the companies thrive. Being great at your job doesn't automatically prepare you to lead people who do it. Many new leaders earn their promotion because they're dependable, knowledgeable, and exceptionally good at getting good results, but once they step into management, the skills that make them stand out employees aren't always the same skills that they need to build trust, address performance issues, delegate effectively, and create a team that can succeed without them doing everything themselves, and that transition can feel a lot like walking along a ledge, and it can also lead to an unstable or deteriorating culture in the workplace. Today's guest is Tess Fialka, is the founder of the Angle Coaching and Communication, and the author of the award-winning book, Walking the leadership edge, the new leader's guide to building resilience and confidence at every step. Tess has spent years helping leaders and teams navigate challenging dynamics, strengthen communications, and develop the confidence to have the conversations that many managers would rather avoid. Her work focuses not only on what leaders need to do, but also on who they need to become as they grow into the responsibilities of leading others. In our conversation today, we're going to explore the shift from top performer to trusted leader, the communication habits that can send a new manager over the leadership ledge, and how expectations, accountability, delegation, and team alignment shape work culture. Because culture isn't built only through big strategies or carefully worded value statements, it's built in the everyday moments when a leader chooses clarity over avoidance, development over control, encourage over comfort. So, Tess, welcome to Culture Secrets Podcast. I'm excited to have you today. Thank you, Chellie. I'm excited to be here, and I'm excited that I now discovered your podcast, you've got great content on there. Thank you so much. I said it grew out of, out of my own book, Culture Secrets, and the interviews that I did with the people in that book, and it has just kind of grown and grown and grown, and it's been a fun, a fun little side thing that I wasn't expecting from the book world, but hey, you know, like something's laying in your lap, and you just keep them going, and I think what we have to say aligns so well with each other's messages and everything, because I talk about building that culture and the role that leadership plays in how we define our cultures in the workplace, and then how we create them, and then how we manage and keep them growing, and I know you do a lot with building leaders up and helping them come across the skills that they need to actually build those teams in a way that work more effectively and more efficiently in the workplace. Tell me a little bit about what is walking the leadership ledge and how did you get started in this type of path as well.

Tess Fyalka: 2:57

So I have walked my own leadership ledges throughout my, my career, as I think any of us who are, especially those of us who are a bit further along in our careers, would probably attest to, but, but I really, I developed a passion for leadership and management when I went to work for a management consulting company, and now that was before that my first career was in marketing and public relations, and like you, I got my master's in journalism, and and I liked marketing and public relations, but I didn't love it, and I went off on my own, and and one of the things that I discovered is that companies will spend all this money on marketing and public relations, but they won't train their team members to develop to deliver on what it is they say, and so in that time I began to transition into training and people development and organizational development, and as I said, where I really fell in love with all things leadership and management was when I was working for a management consulting company. I did that for 13 years, and it was just this epiphany around when you can set people up to succeed, when you can create a culture and an environment where people recognize that they are attached to, they are connected to something bigger than themselves. You establish clear expectations. You have solid communication. You created an environment where people are excited to come to work. They want to be there. I mean, there, there is so much magic that can happen, and it doesn't have to be a slog. It doesn't have to be. Oh my gosh, you know, work would be great if it weren't for the people, you know. And it's like that is the worst thing. When I hear someone say that, it's like, oh wow, you, you are in, you, you really should not be in a management or leadership position, because it is about connecting to the people and getting work done through. People, but anyway, so that's sort of long answer to I fell in love with leadership and management when I was working for the management consulting company. I went to work actually for one of my clients and I set up their internal infrastructure around employee development and coaching and training and leadership development and onboarding, and I did that for about 10 years and then went back out on my own, I was on my own first time for 14 years, went back out on my own at the end of 23 because I just really wanted, you know, you go to an organization and you, you know, I had, I had done what I came there to do, and so I was really ready to, I wanted to get out there and see if I could help other companies in this way, and other organizations, and other leaders in this way, and so that's how I got here. Always wanted to write a book, and then, and it was in working with my coach, as I was transitioning back into going, going back into business for myself, and my coach was, was just like she was relentless, and she, she said,"You have got to write this book, and you know I wasn't, I was not going to rest until I wrote the book, and like I said, I've always wanted to write a book, and this is the book that emerged for me, and it was, it's, it's really focused on helping new leaders, and you decide what a new leader is, okay, because we're all new leaders at various stages in our careers, but what I have found time and again is that the same issues occur over and over and over, and so what I wanted to do with this book is is create something very practical, very tangible, very applicable to the key challenges that leaders face on their new leader journey, managers face on their new manager journey, and just really each chapter deals with a different topic around the key issues that they face. Long answer to your question, there.

Chellie Phillips: 6:53

No, I love it, because so much of what you said resonates with my own journey, and a lot of what sometimes we kind of fall into things because of what we do and what we experience, and everything is like, you know, I came from the same background, the journalism background, and everything. I said, never thought I'd be leading a group of people, and everything I was always telling the stories. And so the other thing that I've learned too is that, you know, stories make a great way to talk about our values and share what's important and build those teams, and then for years and years I've worked in the utility industry, and so a lot of what you see in the utility industry is promoted based on tenure, based on on skill, we can do the actual task and everything, and I know you kind of dive into that a little bit in your book and what you do, and so maybe let's just kind of start there, so a lot of people are promoted into leadership because of either the length of time they've been someplace or the way that they perform a certain skill or they've reached a certain level of accomplishment, so what's the biggest mind shift that you think an employee should have when they become that person that is responsible for leading people and leading the team instead of I'm just showing up doing the work today,

Tess Fyalka: 8:05

yeah. And it really is, it is a big shift, and especially if we just talk about individual contributors, for example, and the individual contributor is really good at getting the work done, and so what they, the mindset shift for them, the one of the one of the big ones is, okay, now I have to get work done through others, and I have to articulate what does success look like, what does good look like, what are what are the expectations that I have by virtue of the fact that we are together as a team here to be in service to the goals of the organization, the strategic plan of the organization, and it's not just about me and what do I have to get done, but how, how do I engage others so that we are together in collaboration in service to the bigger vision and goals of the organization, and so it's just it's that it's that going from this sort of narrow single focus to to opening the aperture, if you will, and being able to have a bigger picture view of of what's really what really needs to be done, and, and what's possible here,

Chellie Phillips: 9:26

and you know, I always tell people, as in, if they can see the contribution they're making to the overall success of the organization, that's generally a big driver, and getting everybody on that same page headed that kind of way, and so I know your book uses the idea of walking the leadership ledge, so what are some of the common moments that make leaders feel like they're fixing to fall over that ledge?

Tess Fyalka: 9:48

Oh gosh, and you know, and there are many, right? You know, and for all of us, I think you know we've all fallen over that ledge, but the, you know, for the for the new leader, you know, it's. Having the difficult conversations, it's setting the expectations, it's giving feedback, it's it's articulating the vision and connecting the team members to to the bigger picture, to the bigger strategy, to the bigger goals. It is being able to explain what does good look like and all of all of those, those things that are that go beyond me as an individual contributor, just focused on what I have to get done.

Chellie Phillips: 10:35

So, do you see it? Like, one of the things I've seen a lot, in especially in my industry, is that it's hard for people to begin to rely on others to do things for them, like they're so used to I control this, I do this, I make it happen, that it's hard for them to give up that I've got to trust my people to be able to, for them to do the things that maybe I used to do, that now that I'm in a leadership role. It's not my primary responsibility anymore, but yet after 20 years, that's what I've done. That's what I've done. That's what I've been responsible for. Any advice on somebody? Maybe, how do you go about deciding that, hey, I need to trust my people? They may not do it exactly the way I do it, but as long as it's getting done and the product is coming out the way we want it to, then that's okay, it doesn't have to be my way,

Tess Fyalka: 11:25

yeah, yeah, there, there are so many layers, there, you know, in terms of there's, there's a lot that's happening with the, with the, with the whole idea of, you know, delegation, okay, so it's, it, because I think that's really what, what you're, you're speaking to is the, you know, it's like all of us know that that's important, and it's a good thing to do, and it's rarely executed well, and you know, in part because there, again, there's so many layers. First of all, to your point, it's like, well, I've been doing this for 20 years, I know how to do this, I know how it is done right, and you know my way is the way of doing it right, and so, so there's that attachment, there's the identity attachment around I did this very well for many, many years, and if I let go of this, what happens to me, and those are those are often things that that leaders who again, they were very successful, and now they have to lead people, and they have to, they have to be able to scale their capacity, they've got to think bigger picture, and they've got to be able to get the work done through others, and they have to let go of what they did so, so well, so is if we're thinking about if we think about delegation as a way in which we are developing our people and we are engaging them and the leader has to wrap their head around the fact that it's not about you, I mean, I'm sorry, buddy, it's not about you, it's about what we are here together to do, and, and you may be holding on really tightly, too. This is the way I've always done, and this is what, what made me successful in all of those things, but what got you here will not get you there, in the immortal words of Marshall Goldsmith. And so, if the organization is calling upon you to step up, then that means that you then have to call upon your team members to also step up, but you don't just call upon them, you equip them, and so there is the, the, the identifying. Okay, what are the things that you are doing? You know, you do an inventory, what are all the things that you know, if you take a couple days, you know, ideally like a week, and you're, you're writing down, you know, virtually everything that you're doing, you know, during the day, and you're looking at that list after a few days, or I know it's ambitious to say a week, but at least after a few days, and you're looking at that list, and you're saying, okay, what on this list are the things that only I in my position can and should be doing, and then, and then it's, it's the reality check, it's the okay, I'm, I'm doing these other things that you know Sam and Betsy on my team could and should be doing, but maybe I haven't equipped them to do that, and so, so the identifying, you know, what, what shouldn't be on my list, and you know what are the things that I, as an, as a leader, you know, only can be doing, and then then I'm engaging my team members and saying, all right, so here's where we're headed as an organization, as a department, these are our goals, and I recognize that for us to move in the direction of achieving those goals, we are, we are going to need to more effectively utilize the resource resources and the talent in this, in this department, and so this is what I'm seeing, I'm seeing, Betsy, you are really good with the detail. Is around these particular things I would like to work with you to teach you what I've been doing in this area, because this is an area where you can grow and on your path to become a more and more effective team member, and it frees me up as the leader, so that I can focus on these other strategic aspects of my job that the organization now needs from me in my position as a leader, and I'm also, because I'm really attached to this thing that I'm giving to Betsy, because I've been doing it for 20 years, I'm going, I'm because we have to be realistic around the human being. Okay, and I'm, and so, so Betsy, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you where to get the data, I'm gonna give you some examples of how I did this in the past, and you know, I may even say, you know, for the first couple times, I'd really like it if you, you'd follow this structure, and then, as I, my trust in what Betsy is delivering, because I've clearly articulated what, what I need to see from Betsy, in terms of her taking over this particular responsibility, I've given her examples of what good looks like. We also have created a cadence where all right, she's she's taking on this responsibility, we're checking in on a regular cadence, and she's letting me know how it's going, she's showing me where she is in the process, I'm giving her feedback, I'm giving her some, some guidance. I'm not swooping in, but to keep me from swooping in, because I did that for so long, and I was, I was so committed to the way that I did it. I need that. Maybe I don't want to articulate that out loud, but internally I need to know that Betsy is delivering on this in a certain way. Okay, and then when that, when I have that trust in Betsy, and then then I can, I can let Betsy, I can let Betsy spread her, spread her wings and fly, but I have made it clear to Betsy that I believe that she can do this, and I know that she's going to be excellent, and I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm handing this over to her at a pace that I'm comfortable with. Now, if granted, that's in an ideal world when we can do that, but, but it is, it's the recognition of the human being is very attached to the things that made them successful, the things that that and that they're good at, and so letting that go is hard, and so how do how do we, we create that transition, set that transition up when we can, because we can't always do that, but when we can, we're intentional about that transition and setting setting ourselves up to trust the other person and setting the other person up for success. Another long answer to your question, there, Challie.

Chellie Phillips: 17:51

No, I'm sitting here, you know, I agree, I agree, I agree. Preach it, you know. And so, because you know, like we all have our babies at work, you know, like, or something that we created, or something that we put our own spin on, and it is hard as you move up and your responsibilities grow to get rid of some of those things, because you do become very attached, especially if you've created something, or that you've made it your own over the course of time that you've been someplace, but to add the new responsibilities, you generally have to get rid of something to make room for the next things that you're doing, and you know, and the thing, like, I work with my people a lot, is, you know, is like, you know, just because you're giving that up doesn't mean you'll never have anything else that replaces it, as if you can always continue to grow, you can always continue to develop, you may find something that you enjoy even more than that, down the path, as you make room and space. I told somebody one time when I, as I transitioned into the role that I was in now, is that the thing that was very surprising to me was when I had a few moments in my schedule where I could just stop and think, you know, as I became the VP. You didn't have all the daily tasks that you had to do in another role or something. It's like, and you found a little space and time in your schedule. Like, it's amazing how many ideas that when you have time to just stop and go, okay, so what could we do? What could things look like? And you know, I think it's important as you shift into that leadership role to be aware of that is that you're going to come up with new things, you're going to come up with better ways, or you're going to come up with new ideas you want to try with your team, but if you haven't given other people opportunities, a, it's a misnomer, because you're not, you're not setting them up for success, either letting them shine, letting, and you're not learning what their great talents are. You know, one of the, one of the pieces of my value culture formula is that everybody has their unique skills and abilities, and sometimes you have to dive in and dig into it and see what those are, and so when you give them a new. Ask, or you give them new opportunities, you see things that you might not have seen before, and you realize, hey, it may not be how I did it. This could actually be even better than what I did, or be more beneficial to the group as a whole. So, I think what you said is so spot on. Another piece of my value culture formula I talk about is accountability, and oftentimes for new leaders accountability is hard because it means you have to have some hard conversations with some people, but then the other flip side of that is I always - I don't always look at accountability as correction. Accountability can be ownership, so that somebody you know, you're giving them - I'm going to make you accountable for this. You're owning this now, so show me what you can do with that kind of thing. So, talk a little bit, maybe, about as a new leader moving into that role, having to design accountability for your team. How do you have those conversations? How do you approach maybe course corrections and things that build trust instead of maybe shattering your team,

Tess Fyalka: 21:03

yes. So, there, there is a lot there. So, let's, let's look at first of all the the idea that, that if I'm going to hold someone accountable, that I'm going to create a fissure in the relationship that I'm going to do something that is damaging to the relationship, and that is, you know, what I often refer to as the big lie, you know, the this, this idea that, that, oh, well, you know, if I tell them this hard thing, then you know it's going to make them uncomfortable, and you know it's gonna, it's gonna hurt the relationship, and in actuality, there, you know, we can tell ourselves that we're protecting the other person. In actuality, what we're doing is we're trying to protect ourselves, because we are, we have told ourselves a story that this idea of holding them accountable, setting forth clear expectations, course correction is somehow negative when in fact the what we're hurt were we're hurting the other person more when we do not tell them how they can really succeed, you know, I mean it's it's the irony because all of us go to work and we want to do well, I mean, okay, maybe not 99.999% of us, you know, it's like, you know, we don't go into the job seeking to do poorly, and so if my leader, my manager, my supervisor is not telling me what I need to do to succeed, they are doing me an enormous disservice in their effort to protect themselves from the uncomfortable conversation, and so in the book I talk about, I talk about Joseph, and so Joseph, and he's, he's like just turned 50, he's a new leader, because he just recently bought into this franchise, and, and he's so frustrated with his team members because they are not delivering customer service the way he believes they should be delivering customer service, but as we have a conversation, you know, and I'm asking some questions about, you know, tell me about how, how do you set forth the expectations? How do you give feedback? How do they know what what good customer service looks like? Because your idea and my idea of good customer service may be very, very different, and clearly it's very different, you know, his idea and his team members' idea, and so, and, and what Joseph says is, oh, oh yeah, I don't like to have those conversations, as if you know, telling, telling them you know what good customer service looks like in your business is one of those conversations, a negative conversation, and you know, and my joke is, you know, well, that's like going to the restaurant and expecting the waiter to know how you want your steak prepared. All right, I mean, it's like, oh, I don't want to, I don't want to tell them, I don't want to offend them, and it's like, okay, well, they have to have the instruction for how you want your steak prepared, so that they can deliver what you want, you know, similarly, your team members need to know what success looks like, what the expectations are, what good looks like, so that they can deliver on on what you need and what you expect and what is in service to the organization, and it goes back to it's not about you, it's about what are we here together to achieve, and when we can wrap our heads around that. Okay, we are here together to provide the best possible customer service to the client. Okay, let's talk about what does that look like, and that is actually a great opportunity to co-create, you know. Okay, what's your.. how would you do this? Well, you know, it doesn't just have to be my idea, you know, but how can I engage the smart people who are on my team, so that we're co-creating the magic of, you know, in this example, what? Rate customer service looks like alright, so then there's so there's that piece of it, so if we, if we had the mindset of of creating a culture of dialog where we're having regular conversations around what's going well, what do we challenge with, you know, where are we at on on, you know, these objectives and these goals, and so on and so forth, then then it's not like you have to, you have to have these, these, it minimizes, it mitigates an environment where you're having to have accountability conversations and difficult conversations and those heavy big things that people avoid because they're scary and they're hard, but if we're having ongoing conversations around, hey, what's going well, you know, what do you need from me that you're not getting? Hey, this is what I'm seeing, seeing you know how you're really, you know, thriving in this area and going, doing really well, but you seem to be having some challenges in this area, and and we're just creating an ongoing conversation, then it just really mitigates the, the, the, the scary, air quotes here conversations and the hard conversations, because there's ongoing dialog.

Chellie Phillips: 26:05

So, it's I was making a couple of notes, so I didn't forget things as you were talking. I was like, I was like, so one of the things you said is like, I do wish we all had the skill of mind reader as part of us. It's like, we assume people know what's going on in our kids all the time, because it's pretty clear to me, you know. Why do you not know this already? You know, it's like we just assume they're all mind readers and know things, and like you have to actually articulate those things, so that people know what's going on. The other thing that I've really seen, especially I don't know, the last five eight years, maybe, is that employees really do crave that feedback, like, like you said, nobody really shows up with a mentality, I'm just going to go to work and suck today, you know. And so, but they really do want that feedback, both positive and negative. They want to know what I'm doing right, what can I do to make it better, what can I fix, how can I improve. And so I'm seeing that more and more, especially with the our newer generations that are coming into the workplace, and so you know, I think that idea that accountability is that one time a year, let's do your annual review kind of thing, is like, so like we just need to throw those out, and like, oh my god, oh, you need to be having regular check-ins throughout the, like, if you're waiting till that one time a year to have the conversation, you've already lost that person, as far as I'm concerned. If you're not giving them that, I don't want to say constant feedback, because nobody wants to feel like somebody's standing over their shoulder 24/7 but I mean, if you're not touching base, you know, every couple of weeks and being like, "Hey, I saw that you did this, that's a great way to do it, or "Hey, have you thought about this? or you know, those kind of conversations, and I think if leaders start looking at it with that mindset, that accountability piece doesn't become this, oh, this is going to be a horrible encounter, because we're doing it for both good and bad, we're doing it for, but we're doing it in a way that's positive, and it's not, it doesn't feel as confrontational or as rigid, maybe, as that formal review that happens once a year, so that HR can check a box and say, hey, we did these kind of things. So I mean, making note, that's like, I totally agree with 100%

Tess Fyalka: 28:14

Absolutely, and yeah, exactly. You know, to your point, in that, in that, you know, you can't have a once a year conversation, and you know, my philosophy is when you do sit down and you have that, that conversation about, you know, and that's usually about, yeah, the raise, you know, the com, you know, the compensation, and you know, you know, in some organizations, bonuses, and, and that, and those should be separate conversations, but the, the, the conversations around, around how folks are doing, how the work is being executed, that's that's just a matter of to your point, you know, you're checking in and making sure that that, and that's part of leadership and management, you know, is everybody on the same page? Should we have clarity around this? Where are the questions? Where might confusion be? What are what are the the roadblocks that that you know we didn't anticipate that we're running into that. We now have to pivot to address, and that happens with conversation.

Chellie Phillips: 29:08

That drives me to my next point, because I think conversation and communication is so important on our teams. The thing that I think a lot of leaders don't do right off the bat is that they don't realize that not everybody communicates the same way that they communicate, and so I know trying to identify the different styles and what people relate to as far as communications go on your team can be something that derails leaders along the way. So I know you talk about this in your book, but what are some of the communication habits that new managers may not realize that they're doing that can hurt their credibility with their team or even confuse their team.

Tess Fyalka: 29:46

Yes, yeah. So, so I'll talk about, like, I'll talk about that in, like, in three categories. So, so we'll, and I'll use the individual contributor example, if you will. So, so you've got the individual. Contributor, and let's, let's call him Liam, and Liam is really good at getting the work done. He gets after it, you know, if he's on your team, you could count on him. He is going to execute, he, you know, he, you ask him to do something, and he is going to perform that, and, and it's going to be with excellence. Liam gets promoted into management, and now he's, he's, you know, project manager, say, and now he is, he's, he is coming across, whereas before he came across as confident, and, and he was, you know, he was asserting himself in a way that enabled him to get to get work done, and now as a manager, as a new manager, he's coming across as controlling and arrogant, and, and you know, his team members are like, well, he just swoops in and he takes over, because, you know, his way was to, to get the work done, and to, he did, that's what he did really well, is he swooped in, and he got, and he got it done, and now what he has to do is he has to communicate to his team members that that they're there, what they're doing matters, what he needs to build the relationships in, and he needs to articulate to them how they fit into this, this bigger picture. It's not a matter of Liam is just doing the work in there, they're picking up the scraps around them. He's got to shift his focus, so that he, he's, he, he may be of the mindset that he is always going to be the leader in front. He has to shift his mindset around being, being the leader behind where he's supporting his other people and the leader beside where he is together with them showing them how they can succeed, how the work can be done. So he needs to move from controlling much more to a more collaborative approach, and then you know we might have, let's say we have, we have Mary, and Mary is, she is cool as a cucumber, and you know, like, the building can be burning down, and Mary is calm, and she is collected, and she can articulate what needs to be done, and, and so, once again, as an individual contributor, you love having her on your team, because yeah, she's unflappable, and then she gets promoted into a leadership or management position, and she's coming across as cold and aloof, and so, so she may be very good at speaking, speaking truth, being very direct and very blunt, and it can come across as being very harsh and very cold. So, once again, she too is struggling to connect with, with her people. So then the other communication style is, is that is that person who, let's see, what we'll, we'll call, we'll call him Sam, and everybody loves Sam, and they want him on his team, and he volunteers for everything, and, and he's just a joy to be around, and he's never rocking the boat, and he's, he's, he's never questioning, and, and he's just, you know, making sure that everybody's okay, and all of the things, and then, you know, Sam gets promoted into, into management or leadership, and and Sam is really struggling to, to rock the boat, to set forth expectations, to have the hard conversations, because he's so used to being everyone's friend, and so he's coming across now what was, what was, what was fun, and was sweet, and was kind, and was, he's a, you know, just great to be around, is now coming across as passive because he, he's not defining the expectations, he's not having the hard conversations, and he's just kind of like, yeah, whatever you think, whatever you think, you know, and so, so those things, it's that recognition of the, of again, you know, what gets you here will not get you there, and so, as you're developing as a leader and a manager, you know the communication styles that got you noticed and got you success and got you the success earned you the promotion. Now, now there's this whole different set of competencies, and you know they're all, you know, they all relate to communication and action and all of those things, but there's a whole different set of competencies that now you need to develop, and that you need, you need to learn as, as a leader. Did that answer your question?

Chellie Phillips: 34:29

Like, it's just like your streets, you know? Like, what does it say? There's a balcony in a basement to your streets, like, how what can be seen as a street by one person that can be seen as a hindrance by another, depending on how they're looking at it. Same thing with our communication styles, and so I think it's there's a, there's a lot to self-awareness as you become a leader, and I think you know that's something we're not taught in school, we're not really taught, it's just something that you have to become, I have to be responsible and take some time to really look into what the. Says about me, what this, you know, like why I react the way I do, or that kind of thing, and take those moments for some self reflection, so that you can really see, oh well, why this got me this way, and why it's good. Here's how it can be a little bit bad, and I need to kind of strengthen this area too. I think that's one of the things we really fail with our new leaders, is that we don't talk about that self-reflection piece that you need to have, so that you can really kind of get an idea of how you are perceived across the whole, not just how you're perceived in a little pocket, but now, how is this relating to the hole that's around you? Couldn't agree more. So,

Tess Fyalka: 35:34

true. Oh, yes, self-awareness. Oh, to see, see myself as others see me. Oh, my gosh, isn't that the truth? Yes. And, and I love, I love the balcony in the basement, and, and the, and the thing is, too, it's like it's not that you leave those strengths behind, you bring them forward as you're developing other strengths that you need and other competencies that you need as a leader, and it's not like you're becoming something that you're not, you know, you know, Liam and Mary and Sam, all are going to remain, you know, Liam and Miriam, Mary and Sam, but the next iteration of them is, is, you know, if they can be a self-aware leader, and if they can commit to growing as a leader, I mean, the next iteration of them, again, it's like, oh my gosh, there's so much potential, because, because you know the putty, the clay that is already there has some really good strengths, and we want to build on those. As

Chellie Phillips: 36:28

I was getting ready for this podcast, and one of the things that kind of really stood out to me that I found that you, that you do, is your team alignment pack, because I do so much around culture, and it seems to me that this is a great way to start beginning to have those conversations about expectations, assumptions, different things like that. So, tell me a little bit about this alignment pact and how it can be a great tool for leaders to use on their team to make sure that everybody's on the same page and heading in the same direction.

Tess Fyalka: 37:01

Yes, it is. It is probably one of my most favorite things that I do in working with teams, and, and so, you know, I first of all, I use the word"packed" because the word is rooted in peace, and pretty much every team I work with could use a little bit more peace, so, so, the, but the, the basically, you know, the four core things that pretty much every team wants, you know, they want trust, they want communication, they want accountability, and they want respect. And when I work with a team and I take them through a series of exercises, it essentially those are things, those are the core things that that emerge in virtually every team that I work with, and everybody can, you know, they can wrap their head around that, right. We all, we all want trust and communication and accountability and respect, right. But the thing is, what, what does respect look like to Celie versus what does respect look like to Tess? Communication, you know, how do you see effective communication on your team versus somebody on your team, maybe that, maybe your idea of effective communication is that, that when, when you send an email or a text or Slack, or whatever, then they're getting back to you to acknowledge that they've received it, you know, from their perspective, you know, they see that, that, that you, you have, you know, sent this message, and they're thinking, well, you know, good communication is I respond within 24 hours, and then there's this disconnect, this misalignment, and that breaks down trust, and then, then that also, then you may feel disrespected because, well, they're not responding in a timely manner, and all of those things. Okay, so, so the big buckets, we can agree that, yeah, pretty much we all want those things, but what do those, what, what does trust, communication, accountability, and respect look like in action on this team? How are we going to to communicate? What does that going to, what is that going to look like? What are the parameters around that? And if I trust you, what am I seeing? And if you trust me, what are you seeing, and so, so in the team team alignment process, we go through the exercises, and we articulate how is this team on this project going to work effectively together, and and they outline, you know, what what those behaviors are, what they look like in action, and so they've got real clarity around, okay, this, this is a, this might be a pressure point for, or a stressor for Celie. I didn't realize that. Okay, now I know that, and this is a pressure point or a stressor for me, and now you know that. And so, how we have the playbook for how we work most effectively together, and now, now the team alignment session is the fun session, and, and you know, it's like, oh, everybody's like, oh yeah, oh yeah, this, this, this, and this, and yes, you know, there's a lot of, lot of love in the room, and they're having fun, and all of those things, you know, but it's the, it's the going back to the pact, you know, at least once a month, we're pulling it out, and we're having a conversation, let's. Do it, and where are we crushing it? And we're really living the pact, and where are we falling down? And again, when it's when it's about how are we most effectively working as a team, then we can have the conversation around the areas where we're breaking down what's going on here. Is there, and is there some extenuating circumstance that caused a breakdown. Here, it's not a matter of, oh, well, you know, John's a jerk, and he just doesn't care. You know, we love to point fingers, and, and all, but what else might be going on there that caused, you know, John, or, you know, Jane, and Tom, and Liam, or whatever, you know, to, to, yeah, to engage in behaviors that that we are interpreting broke trust or broke communication, and we have those ongoing conversations. It's all rooted in the conversations. I'm not telling you anything you don't know, and looking at those conversations as the means through which we we build the relationships, and we help each other, and we back each other up. It's not, it's not the means through which we point fingers and break each other down.

Chellie Phillips: 41:08

I love that, and I couldn't agree more. I do the same kind of thing with the cultures based on values, but what these.. we all use these words: respect, integrity, all these kind of things, but they mean different things to different people, and they show up different ways, so like for the culture side of things, I talk about what is the behavior that shows that, and so same thing on the communication side, or the way that we're interacting, what shows that this is what we're doing, and this is how I expect it to be, and everything else, so I think it's really important that people put the meat behind it. It's not just the word, it's got to have the action, and so that's such an important piece of that. And so I'll kind of wind us up with if there's a new leader or leader in general right now that's listening today, and they want to build a happier, more productive, more motivated team. What is one practical step that they could take this week that would start them on this path to tend to making this team more cohesive?

Tess Fyalka: 42:12

Curiosity. Yes. Seek first to understand I, and just ask questions, and be genuinely curious. It's so powerful when we ask genuine questions of others and really want to know about them and what's important to them and what you know, how they see their contribution in the organization, how they see their future, how they interpret what success looks like, and it's just really, you know, curiosity is there's so much magic in being curious.

Chellie Phillips: 42:48

You can't assume anything like it makes you such a better leader when you get out and you talk to your people and see what's going on in their minds. Tess, this has been such a fun conversation today. Do me a favor and tell my listeners, how can they find out more about you? How can they connect with you and tell them about your book and where that they can find it?

Tess Fyalka: 43:06

Sure. So, so connect with me on LinkedIn. You can also, I encourage you to go to my book website, Walking the Leadership ledge.com There's a quickie little two minute assessment there that you can take that kind of gives you a sense of, okay, where are you on this leadership journey, and a few practical things that you can do, you know, to, to, is you can apply right away, and so walking the Leadership ledge.com is one place you can connect with me, like I said, LinkedIn, my book is available on Amazon, it's Kindle, it's Audible, and it's paperback, and there's also my business website, you can connect with me there, Angle coaching.com A N G L E coaching.com and so I'd love to connect with your listeners.

Chellie Phillips: 43:51

Thanks again for sharing your insights with us today. I know my listeners will have found some valuable nuggets in there, like I said, I was taking notes too, so you know, like I think that's the thing, is like, we're always continual learners, and we always pick up tidbits when we actually stop and take a time to focus on these things that are important. So, thanks again for sharing that. And for my listeners out there, make sure you check out Walking the Leadership Ledge, it's got some great advice in there for you, and I think it'll make, no matter what type of leader you are, or how long you've been in that role, it'll make you a stronger leader, and it'll give you some things that you can do to strengthen your teams and the relationships that you have with your people. So, that's it for the Culture Secret Podcast today. Thank you for listening. Make sure you like and share this episode out. And until next time, keep building that strong culture in your workplace.

Unknown: 44:39

Thanks for listening to this episode of Culture Secrets. If today's conversation resonated with you, we'd love for you to share it with a colleague or friend. And don't forget to subscribe, so you never miss an episode. To learn more about building strong people-first workplace cultures, visit Kellie phillips.com where you'll find resources, speaking information, and more insights from Chelsea. Eight, you can also pick up a copy of Culture Secrets at your favorite online or in-person bookseller. Thanks again for listening. And remember, culture isn't something you talk about once, it's something you live every day, you