Ep 39 Navigating the Shadows of Grief: Finding the Light of Hope with Wendy Kessler, MSW, FT

When hope seems like a distant glimmer, can its transformation lead us through the shadows of grief? This poignant question guided my conversation with Wendy Kessler, a grief specialist, as we delved into the heart of loss and the rebirth of hope. For every person who has stood in the storm of sorrow, this episode is a testament to the unwavering human spirit. My own journey of preparing for my grandfather's passing served as a somber backdrop to our discussion, revealing the raw complexities of family dynamics and the courage needed to embrace an ever-changing future.

Wendy's wisdom illuminated the nuanced dance between supporting those in pain and nurturing one's own flickering hope. We tackled the intricate task of accompanying a loved one, like my grandmother, through their darkest hours. Our dialogue wandered through the twists and turns of grief, unearthing the significance of a flexible mindset and the resilience of hope in the face of despair. Her insights remind us that it's not about correcting the course of grief but walking alongside it, with empathy and patience, as it forges its own unpredictable path.

We wrapped this heartfelt exploration by shining a light on the communal power in healing. The shared weight of grief feels less heavy when borne together, and this episode stands as a testament to that truth. Our exchange offered a space to honor the solidarity found within the grief community and the vital role of connection in finding solace. So, as we pay tribute to those who guide us through the nights of sorrow, remember, you're not alone in this journey. Let's walk it together, with hope as our compass, and find strength in each other's stories.

Connect with Wendy: 
https://griefguideconsulting.com/about/

Transcript

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 0:06

Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of TeleWellness Hub podcast. I'm your host, marta Hamilton, and today we're here with repeat guest Wendy Kessler. She is the grief specialist and owner of grief guide consulting and, if you haven't checked out her episodes, there's two episodes that we previously recorded and are live. On whichever of the 18 platforms you listen to your podcast, you can check it out. In the past, we've talked over what is grief and just gave a review about grief and loss. The latest episode, we talked about how to cope with grief and what active coping looks like, especially during the holidays, and today we get to take it a step further and look at hope and how hope evolved. So, wendy, thank you so much for joining us again.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 1:01

Thank you for having me back. I always look forward to talking with you. It just feels very meaningful every time.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 1:06

Yes, I'm always so grateful when we can connect and before I hit record, I was sharing with Wendy that the timing could not have been better personally.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 1:18

So we set this up weeks ago this recording and in this past week there's been a lot of conversation for end of life care and what that looks like in my own family with my grandfather, and so I shared, I shared with Wendy.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 1:39

You know I don't want to turn this into a session all about me, but it really created a lot of questions, a lot of uncertainties, a lot of different feelings, and so I thought how fortunate I am to get to talk to you and I hope that this conversation can meaningful to others who navigate something like this. Although we talked in our previous episodes, everyone at some point is touching on some type of loss, including death, so we talked about how do we? So I'm just hope, I'm hopeful, that this conversation can in some way, like we talked about before hitting record, record the record button is that I hope this conversation can somehow help model or normalize talking about death. So, yes, thank you very much for yes, for that, and especially when we look at how hope is a part of this. So talk to us a little bit about the role of hope in loss or in the grieving process, right right it is.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 2:51

It is such a significant part of the pain that we experience when we're grieving that what we hoped for whether we hope for healing or recovery, you know, restoration of relationship, whatever we're hoping for and that reaches an end and what we hope for and want is no longer possible. It is deeply painful for us, but it also is helpful to know and to remember just the capacity that our brain, as well as our you know, our soul and our emotions as well in our heart, to be able to evolve and to be able to grow. And this isn't about replacing pain, eliminating pain, minimizing pain. It's just, it's a recognition that more can exist than just pain.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 3:44

And while we grieve the ending of a story or the ending of a relationship or the ending of a loved one's life and have to let go of the things we hope for that won't, that don't have a possibility of coming true, we also have the ability, we do have the flexibility within our own mindset to be able to let hope evolve and let new hope form. So and it's it's a really important task of grieving to be able to give ourselves permission to do that, so that we don't get stuck or derailed in our grief. It's really key to how we keep moving forward through significant loss is learning and growing this ability to let hope evolve and to let hope change. And even though what we hope for may have come, something specific may have come to an end or the life of a loved one may have come to an end, we have again we have this ability to form and create and live into new hope.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 4:51

But that's not without pain you mentioned. I'm like looking at my notes here. You mentioned that when what we hope for is no longer possible, that really resonated with me because you know, in my experience I'm talking about a death loss. My grandfather is in a boarding home right, that's the term a boarding home for end of life care and doctors have mentioned anywhere from, based on their professional opinion and their experience, that he likely has seven to 14 days left before he passed it. And so I'm thinking as his granddaughter and I have. I have children, so we were going to go visit where he is and my grandmother are, and I was hoping for a Christmas celebration, new Year celebration, all of us together, and that's not possible.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 5:50

Now I know that's not possible and I think there's a lot of so much truth when you said that when what we hope for is no longer possible, it kind of stops us in our tracks and yes, it's like wait a minute, and I think there's an interplay also of a lot of relationships. I don't know if you see this, because I find myself thinking okay, this is what I hope for, and what did my kids hope for and what did my grandmother? I mean, I'm imagining my grandmother's hopes and experience, because they've been. You know, my grandmother, very traditionally, has not left my grandfather's side in decades, to the point where she is sleeping in the in the home in one of the beds in his room. She didn't want to leave his side and they've offered to do that for her, but I'm picturing what her experience is and and what and what kind of a new holiday season we will have.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 6:48

I don't know. So when you yeah, so you, when you mention that we have to let our hope evolve and give ourselves permission, that man that really, yeah, I mean, there's pain. I was found myself tearing up randomly, went to a yoga class and, and Like wiping tears in the yoga class, just feeling a little pain, even though I feel so much gratitude I have so much gratitude for also to so that process of letting our cell cells and our hope evolve. What does that look like? And what does that look like in terms also with an interplay and interconnectedness with other relationships? I'm thinking in terms of a family, for example, or friendship.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 7:37

well, I'll share a story with you to answer that question, that my best friend from high school days, her husband, died of cancer in his 40s a few years ago and it just there was so much hope for him to be well, such a strong and resilient man and such a fighter, and so many reasons he wanted to live. But there came a point in his cancer progression, the progression of his disease, that there there were no longer any you know viable treatments and a recovery just wasn't possible. That just wasn't going to happen. And Making that shift is so hard from hoping for healing and recovery to Accepting that that what we're hoping for is no longer possible. But if we get, have a fixed mindset that we just want to keep pushing against what we feel is right and what should happen if we can't make that shift? A letting hope evolve and kind of letting our mindset be Flexible when there's no other options left. When we can make that shift, we can again. It doesn't take away the pain. It's not a cure for pain, it just we become open to experience some things that can be really beautiful and create a lot of, create some peace and Some meaning at end of life, instead of it just being Hard and painful and something that we're beating our fists against the entire time Until someone takes their last breath.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 9:17

We so what? My friends husband? He had a daughter from a former marriage who was in college at that time. She was less than a month from graduating and he had raised her as a single dad. She was less than a month of graduating from college and he really wanted to hang on and and either for her graduation. You know, with the hospice staff, it just it was very apparent that that was not going to happen. Just is the, the advancement of his disease, the decline of his body. It just wasn't possible for him to to live that many more days. That would be needed. And so, as painful and heartbreaking and Devastating as it was, to accept the reality. And there was a lot of crying and talking and processing, again, we're not just skipping over or denying pain, we're leaning into the pain of that reality. But then it's saying so what else can we do? The hope of him being there for her graduation Was not going to happen. But what other options do we have?

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 10:21

And so I suggested to her she had just got her cap and gown and she was coming home to see your dad and I told her to bring her cap and gown and we threw a graduation party. And her dad was bedridden at that time, but he was still alert. He was still able to, you know, cognitively, be present and aware of, of a celebration for his daughter. And so, even though he was, you know, at that time probably within a week or two of dying she wore her cap and gown and we made a cake and we poured glasses of prosecco when we played jazz music and she took pictures with her dad and her cap and gown and he got to tell her how proud he was of her. And and we cried and lacked through that whole party, just the four of us my friend, you know, her husband, his daughter and me and in their bedroom, having this graduation party. That was heartbreaking and Incredibly beautiful and profound at the same time.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 11:26

And so, even though her dad wasn't able to be at her graduation, letting the hope evolve from he isn't going to be there but there's still time and when we accept that, then we open up some space of what else can we do to make this meaningful and for her to be able to share a really special moment with her dad In honor and recognition of of her graduating and all the support he had been in her life. You know, then she was able to be there and she was able to be there. You know that that enabled her to be a college graduate, and so it just, it is one of, like, the most painful yet Most treasured memories of my life. And actually, she just got married last fall and she asked me to officiate her wedding. And I'm not a minister Pastor, I'm a grief counselor.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 12:18

But there is something so sacred and what we shared and just being present in those in her dad's final weeks together that created this bond between us, that that to officiate her wedding and to be in that sacred space that is so full of hope and joy and a new beginning for her life, to be able to integrate all of those spaces together, really is so powerful.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 12:54

And again we just it allows more than just grief and pain and loss and suffering to exist in the really hard stories of our lives. And then and that's how we move forward it and create a new future for ourselves. And we create a new future by honoring the pain and letting that be a part of our story and the loss, but that it can be integrated with the newness that's beginning for us as well. Those things aren't mutually exclusive and when we try to make them completely separate we actually increase our suffering. Then when we let all those things, when we create and kind of lean into and find ways that all of these experiences that make life life can be integrated and it exists in the wholeness of who we are, in our story.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 13:47

Wendy, that is so beautiful. I have my tissues next to me on purpose today because I just I felt myself tearing up just what a meaningful experience that you had and just so beautiful, like you mentioned, so so sacred, and I love that. You mentioned that it can be integrated and I'm picturing kind of like a tapestry of things being interwoven, doesn't have to be separated and doesn't have and you're, and I could see how it you suffer more if you do. But that meaning aspect is so, so huge. I hear that come up a lot in our conversation right now just how, how to, how to look at the meaning and or create or highlight or celebrate meaning, even in in the periods of feeling some, some pain, understandably. So that's so beautiful.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 14:44

I think I was just picturing for myself, having shared. Well, I thought we're gonna have this Christmas gathering and you know our families Mexican, so both that are really popular and we've done it every year. It's kind of our tradition and I thought, well, that even just having this conversation with you is my first time. I thought, well, why can't we just still keep our tradition and go visit him and and and do that?

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 15:08

and it will look different, but it doesn't. That's that's okay. It's okay that it looks different. And then, when we accept the reality that what we're hoping for is impossible, that's not the end. It doesn't have to be the end like just a painful end. It can also be kind of a bridge where we then enter in to the next experience of of our life and how that fits into our life.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 15:36

And well then, what else can we do in this space? That's that's meaningful, even though we can't do the thing or have the experience we that our heart desires. But again, what's so key in this is we're not skipping over emotions and denying feelings. We're feeling the pain of those feelings and just realizing that we can hold all this at the same time. We have the capacity for that and we can grieve what's ended and and be brokenhearted over anticipating a loved one's death or that a loved one has died, and we can also create something that feels really significant and meaningful and that connects us to this shared love, that there's still more things we can do for to experience that, like that doesn't have to end. We just have to think about how to do that differently.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 16:29

I think you mentioned it, the possibility of doing things differently is is so huge and what you share, just like what you share with your, your friend, and the graduation and and the cap and gown and your, your own party and I remember you said they were tears and there was laughter and they coexisted at the same the same gathering for people. When it comes to to hope and letting, letting yourself be open to the possibility of, of having some hope for new meaning, with the pain right, without, without avoiding it or denying it. I guess what are some things that are helpful? I I'm picturing, you know, conversations, I don't know, just some guidance for, for listeners, on what are some helpful first steps to even just explore the idea of hope um, I think something that's so important is realizing that it's never foolish to hope.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 17:25

Like we need hope, like hope is what makes the, the risk of life and the risk of pain of of anytime we love someone or something. There is risk and and pain and and potentially losing that thing. And so we we need hope to keep us moving forward and creating a meaningful life. And so to to realize that we're never foolish to hope, and just because what we hope for doesn't come to fruition doesn't mean we were foolish to hope for it in the first place. Like hope is a necessary part of our humanness and so, and and we're never foolish to hope, and we sometimes just kind of how our culture kind of operates and how we're conditioned that when something doesn't go as we plan or want it to, or hope for it, to that it feels like we were really that failure and we were foolish to ever hope for that in the first place. And to really change that mindset that hope is a necessary part of being a human being.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 18:37

Hope is a necessary part of building a meaningful life. We are never, ever, ever foolish to hope. We just have to let hope evolves as, like facts and realities shift and change. So hope isn't the problem, it's having a flexible mindset around just how we adapt to loss. So we're not denying it, nor are we trying to just hold everything at arm's length so we never have to feel the pain of loss. It's again it is. It comes back to where we started it, just that not being so compartmentalized and just being more integrated with both the joy and the suffering of life. That exists all the time, but it really. But you know, hope is necessary. Hope is not the enemy. Even when we're brokenhearted, like in, hope is really so often the path forward. It's just we have to start hoping for something different. And that doesn't mean we made a mistake for what we were hoping for in the first place.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 19:41

Yeah, I like that. You said that we are. We are never foolish to hope and it's not a mistake. I wonder to the what about for some that might resist that flexibility in hoping? I say this only because I think of someone like my grandmother who's so in it. How can I I don't know that she's resisting it right, but I also want to hold space to let her be in the pain. How do you find that balance for supporting someone who is so close to to a lot? Does that make fun?

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 20:19

I, I, I think you know navigating that for her, and I think about two relationships just in terms of my, my grandmother, who I'm very close to and I know she is. She is deep in the pain and just step by step and I want to honor that she's there. But also I have hope and I and I have my children and I want to model. I feel like it's an opportunity to. So I guess I just wonder and I want to say she's, it's not resistant. That wasn't the right word, but I think it's not about those conversations right now.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 20:59

I say this only because it happened to be my grandmother for more details my grandmother's birthday, when things started going badly in the hospital for my grandfather's health or he declined more and she said I don't want any birthday, I don't want anyone to call me, it's not good right now. So I it gave me this sense of like, wow, she's not in a good place. I want to respect that. She's holding that boundary. So it's finding that balance of, of knowing. I think things are a little bit different now that they have a plan and there's, you know, she, she has updated that things are as positive as they could possibly be right now. Right, they're comfortable, they have great care. How can I walk alongside? Or how can we walk alongside for those listening as they evolve? How can we support their evolution, knowing that it, you know it's not linear, it's not going to be like, well, you're evolving. I'm sure there's ups and downs and like somersaults in the evolution of hope.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 22:05

Well, and I think that hope is very personal and it's something it's like with meaning, like we create that for ourselves and figure that out for ourselves. We can't decide that for other people, like you can't decide for your grandma what her hope should be or kind of what pacing she should be moving along or what she needs. I think when people are absorbing the reality of the end of a loved one's life, it's just being present, it's just leaning in towards someone and being present, and not we want to make people feel better, especially the people that we love. But when it comes to a significant loss, like losing your partner of 50 or 60 years, I mean there's we can't fix that and we struggle when we can't fix the pain and make someone feel better. But it is recognizing, realizing that to to just lean and do our loved ones when they're in pain and letting them know that they don't have to be happy and okay, and we still want to be near them and we want to be with them and and we want to be a comfort by our love and our care and our presence with them and they don't have to do anything else.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 23:29

You know, I think part of the I mean, I don't I don't know your family at all and I could be totally wrong my, my hunch is part of her resistance to having her birthday celebrated is that pressure to be happy and the pressure to feel that you have to like socially, you got to respond in some way that's celebratory, even in a small way, and she just doesn't have the capacity for that, understandably. And so when people are anticipating a significant loss or grieving a significant loss, us letting go of our need to try to make them feel better, because it's not what she needs. She needs to know that you know likely. She needs to know that it's okay to be grieving and that people still want to be around her and with her and near her, her family, even as she's brokenhearted, and to share, like, to just be present in that space with her without trying to fix it.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 24:30

I think that is something I need to hear. I think I definitely have a family of solution focused people, a lot of executives and engineers who are like let's do this or we can help her with this, and I think and we want to also try to I feel for her. I feel for her and I do your right. It all comes from a loving place of wanting her to feel better, and my mom you know that's her dad and I think everyone's just being, I mean, I'm very, I'm fortunate because it points to I believe you know, when looking for the meaning and the hope. I mean it points to the amount of love 100% and we don't need our grief.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 25:18

We don't need our grief to be fixed by our loved ones, we just need it to be witnessed. We just need our grief to be witnessed by other people and to be validated and to know that the person that we're grieving and missing matters, and matters to people beyond just us, and that is the best, often the best comfort that we can give.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 25:42

What about, in terms of what you see in individuals and I know it varies, right, where everyone, everyone's journey is is their own and unique. But when it comes to this, how hope evolves and how we let our hope evolved, what are some things you notice when people let themselves have the freedom to, to let their hope evolve or to have hope? What are some things you notice and and them?

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 26:13

I think that's where we find the space To be able to move forward in our grief processing, like when we let hope end With the end of a sad story and we don't want to. It's too painful to try to hope for something different and sometimes it feels like we're dishonoring our loved one to hope for something different, but that's. We get so stuck in those places and there's no way for our grief to move and Transform and to to be released. It's in letting that hope of what we because really evolving hope, that's a part of agency what we were talking about last in our last conversation about actively reliving evolving hope is a is a really essential part of Realizing that grief isn't a passive experience. It is something we have agency over and we can utilize our resilience.

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 27:10

And when we actively grieve, it's not that it grief isn't painful, but again we just. It's more than just pain. I've become something that allows us to grow and to evolve and to experience a sense of moving forward and to become more compassionate towards ourselves and others. But that's a writ, that evolving hope piece, because again, our human, we need Hope to be the best, the best version of humanity. Hope is John come to that.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 27:40

Yeah, you're so right. You know, in in clinical work, from a clinician standpoint, I mean, we assess for hope so much in terms of someone's If someone is depressed, for example, we examine hopelessness. And in someone's concerns for safety and risk, they look for hope, and it's I I recently it's funny you mentioned that you that we were gonna talk about hope. I recently was reading an article that just talked about culturally. Hope is such a strong theme in all cultures and throughout time, such a an Essential piece of humanity, so I love what you have shared. Thank you, yes, yes, and I'm gonna probably go back and listen, to, relisten to our previous episodes and just really, really dive deep into the words, because I think I hope that this Conversation is helpful for those out there too or are Navigating that space.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 28:47

You brought up so many good things that regarding hope, like allowing yourself to hope for something different, to to not feel foolish for having hope for something, and to to look at the possibility for meaning within the hope. I brought up so many beautiful things. So, wendy, I'm so grateful that you were willing to be a part of our wellness journey again, but I want to make sure for those who are maybe listening to this. This is their first time listening in on a conversation with you on grief and loss. What are the best ways for them to connect with you?

Wendy Kessler Grief Guide Consulting: 29:24

Thank you. It is such a pleasure to talk with you as well, and I can be reached through my website, which is grief guide consulting calm, or by email, which is grief guide consulting, at gmail calm and I you know it is. It is meaningful to hear from your listeners and to offer any additional resources that are helpful. I just encourage people to reach out. I grieving in In isolation and grieving without feeling we have the support. We need it. Also, it just adds to the pain and the burden of grief, and when we can connect with others in our grieving experience, it really does offer the ability to not that we don't feel pain, but that we can feel less burdened by our grief when we're engaging with other people in Conversations around our loss. It's so important. So thank you for creating this space for us today.

Martamaria Hamilton TeleWellness Hub: 30:15

Absolutely and honestly. You you're so right about that with the connection. Even this opportunity for me to connect with you and talk so openly about this experience for 30 plus in minutes is Best, incredible. So I'm very grateful, truly, on a personal level and also just for all the meaningful work that you do for for so many others. Truly, thank you so much, thank you.