Nourish & Empower

Finding Your Therapist (and Why They Have Support Too)

• Jessica Coviello & Maggie Lefavor • Season 2 • Episode 13

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Ever wonder what makes good therapy consistently good? We open the door to the real work that happens off-mic and off-session: supervision, collaboration, and the ethical guardrails that keep clients safe and supported. With licensed professional counselor and supervisor Erin Scheidle, we unpack how individual and group supervision sharpen clinical judgment, reduce imposter syndrome, and translate directly into clearer treatment plans and stronger outcomes—especially in eating disorder care where dietitians and therapists must align.

We explore the difference between supervision and a clinician’s own therapy, and why that boundary matters for you. You’ll hear a clear, relatable breakdown of transference and countertransference, how those dynamics show up in the room, and practical ways providers name and manage them to protect the therapeutic relationship. We also get tactical about finding a clinician who fits: what to ask on a consult, how to assess safety and nonjudgment, what “collaborative care” really looks like, and how to use past not-so-great experiences as data rather than deterrents.

If the fit isn’t right, we guide you through transparent, empowered next steps—how to speak up, request adjustments, or end care with closure and referrals. The throughline is simple and powerful: good care is built on teamwork, ongoing learning, and your voice. Whether you’re navigating eating disorder recovery or seeking a better mental health match, this conversation offers practical tools and a reassuring view of the professional systems designed to support you.

If this episode helped you feel seen or informed, tap follow, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review. Your feedback helps others find thoughtful, ethical mental health content and keeps these conversations going.


Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.


Resource links:

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/


How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand


Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)


Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)


If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.


Support the show

SPEAKER_01:

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_01:

Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com because healing happens here.

SPEAKER_00:

Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast. Today we have Erin Schidel, and she is a licensed professional counselor and certified supervisor with eight years of experience in the mental health field. She has worked in a variety of clinical settings and is trained in supporting clients living with eating disorders, understanding the importance of a collaborative treatment team. Erin is passionate about both group and individual supervision, creating spaces where clinicians can grow, learn from one another, and develop new skills and techniques that enhance their clinical work and benefit the clients they serve. And trigger warning. We will be discussing eating disorders and mental health in today's episode. Listeners' discretion is advised. This show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes. We did it. Crushed it. Welcome, Erin.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi.

unknown:

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01:

I am so excited. You've always been one of my favorite people to work with and collaborate with. And I feel like we've worked so well together the past few years. So it's so fun to get to like talk to providers in this kind of setting too. So thank you so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited. And you know, I really enjoy, you know, working alongside eating disorder when I should then in the field.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we're we're very, very happy to have you on here, especially for the topic, because I feel like supervision, it might not be like the most like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like I don't think clients recognize how much happens behind the scenes. So this might not be a topic that clients are like, woohoo, let's hear about group supervision. You know what I mean? But like I also think it's really important for people to understand what we do in the background. Like it's not like we're just winging it every day and then hoping for the best, everybody like stays good. And so I love that you're here to really give that feedback on everything.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. No, there is a lot that we do behind closed doors, and although it's not directly to the client, it still benefits the client supervision in some capacity.

SPEAKER_01:

Without a doubt. For sure. So when it comes to supervision, can you explain a little bit about individual supervision, group supervision, and the importance of each of those? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

So group supervision and individual supervision, they are two spaces that play a very important role in a clinician's growth, competence, and overall well-being. Individual supervision is more a one-on-one relationship between a supervisor and a supervisee. It often is more intimate and tailored to the clinician's specific needs. In this space, clinicians can slow things down if they want. They can explore their cases in depth, ask one-on-one questions that maybe they feel a bit hesitant to bring to a group supervision table. I think it's also a very important space to have to kind of process countertransference, maybe some self-doubt or imposter syndrome that might be going on. And it also allows kind of one-on-one individual feedback with your clinical supervisor. And then group supervision, on the other hand, that brings more multiple clinicians together. This setting offers the powerful reminder that a clinician is not alone in the setting. It also has ways to hear different perspectives, get more feedback than just one-on-one with your clinical supervisor. And it also shows that you are not alone. And I think that's really big that sometimes when we are directly working with a client, we really, really feel like we're alone. But then when you bring the multiple clinicians together, it shows that okay, like, hey, there are other people that are working alongside me. And overall, I just think the importance is that it really helps grow the confidence of a clinician.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. I feel like I really speak to they're like one of the parts that really spoke to me that you just said is like the not feeling alone part, especially in group supervision, because even if the group supervision is like me, Maggie, and our supervisor, right? And it's just the three of us together, even knowing that a struggle I'm having, or if it's like our whole team coming together for our treatment team and talking about cases, if I come to you know the table and I'm like, this is what I'm struggling with, and other clinicians even being like, wow, that is a tough case, or like, yeah, like I would do the same thing, like you're doing a great job. Even hearing just like that validation of like, yes, what you're doing is correct, or I would do the same thing. Cause I know for me specifically, like, if I think one of the clinicians in the practice is like better than me, then like in my brain, if they then say, Wow, Jess, I would have done the same thing, I think you're doing a great job, I'm like, wow, okay, like I'm smart, I know what I'm doing. Like it's so validating. And so, like, I feel like you touching upon like that imposter syndrome or just like the the connection that clinicians make together is like so huge.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think you know, imposter syndrome as a clinician is real, and it kind of shows that we are human too. You know, we're not robots on the other side of the screen or the couch if you're in person. And by sharing that with clients, that okay, hey, I'm still learning too, and that learning never stops, no matter you're whether you're provisionally licensed or even fully licensed, that supervision and me continuously learning is going to benefit you on the other side.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Yeah. And and benefit, right, exactly, the benefit of the client. And I think too, you know, as Aaron, as you were first describing that, I I kind of forgot that this was even a thing. But a treatment center I worked at in the past, we used to have a weekly like treatment team meeting that was very clinical focused, where, you know, each discipline would give like kind of their clinical report of the week. And then the hour after that, we used to have a, I guess I would describe it as like a more informal kind of group supervision, but it was less about the clinical, and it was more about like our feelings on how the week went and some of the things that we were experiencing. And another piece of that, too, and I don't know if either of you have had much experience with this, but I feel like as a dietitian working in the eating disorder field, I have a lot of experience being in interdisciplinary group supervision and even interdisciplinary individual supervision because there's always a therapist, you know, in the mix too. And that to me just has always, I think it's where I have learned the most over the past, I don't know, eight and a half, nine years of doing this, because we just see things from different lenses, right? I'm always seeing things from the lens of the dietitian. And it's so helpful to sometimes like take a step back and see it from the lens of the therapist, which is just going to bring up different elements that I just would not have connected before.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel like with especially with eating disorders, it's always so important because like with that interdisciplinary team, like you're talking about, Maggie, and I know we talk about this all the time, because what I see and what you see, if we didn't have each other, we wouldn't understand like the correlation of things, right? So like that group supervision also allows us to be able to say, like, okay, so a client is doing really well. But if you're, but if I'm saying emotionally they're doing well, but like dietarily they're not doing so well, that's a really good thing for us to be able to know. Or like if they're both positively correlated to, you know, if they're doing really well in both places, or if they're tanking really like badly in both places, like we wouldn't have that information if we didn't have the group supervisions that we do.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And kind of piggybacking off of sort of that idea, you know, there have been times where a client has come to me, for example, and was like, you know, I'm a little bit nervous about telling my dietitian this information. You know, would you mind sharing that information for me? And these are times in group supervision where you can talk about and process what the client might be telling a therapist and then how the therapist can then let the dietitian know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Definitely like a collaboration piece that can come in with the group supervision too. Yeah, absolutely. Kind of a question for both of you how would you say that being in supervision has benefited like your work, your counseling style the most?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so for me, engaging in my own clinical supervision, it kind of gave me the respect that it's a it's very heavy and you know, it's a big responsibility holding on to other people's stories and their journey when it comes into their mental health journey. And early on, I think I realized that it's supervision and it doesn't make me a bad clinician at all. You know, I kind of had to work on my own little reframework that you know, I have good intentions and what I want to do is do well for my client. And with that, is that learning never stops and trainings never stop. Every I think every day everything just changes in general. And with supervision, I learned that it's a necessary space to kind of pause, check my blind spots, make sure I'm practicing ethically and thoughtfully and with care to my clients.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that answer. And I feel something you just said, I took so to answer your question, Maggie, off of something that Aaron just said, but from like a more of a personal than like a clinical standpoint, I feel like supervision allowed me to recognize kind of battling that imposter syndrome, but also like Erin said, supervision isn't a bad thing and it doesn't mean I'm a bad clinician. And I feel like when I was first in the field, especially when I just had my LAC and or even when I got my LPC, but then I was in private practice for the first time. Every time I had supervision, I almost felt like, and this is like my own stuff, but I almost felt like I was going in and like being reprimanded for the way that I was doing things, or I had to like explain why I did the things that I did. And I wasn't seeing it as a learning opportunity. I was seeing it as, okay, I'm sitting in the principal's office and I did something wrong and I have to explain my case, type of a thing. And it was one of those pieces where you do, it's so vulnerable and people don't recognize that because you do have to explain and you are saying, like, hey, I don't understand something, or hey, can you help me? Or like, I don't know, I think I did a really great job. And your supervisor might say, Yeah, that was great. And and you really have to be open to constructive criticism and recognize that it is something that it's not saying you're bad, it's just a that's great, and but when you're new to this field and when you're really trying to recognize, okay, my job is to take care of people, and my job is to keep people safe. And my job, like Erin just said so beautifully, is to hold all of this space for people and hold on to all of their emotions. And then my supervisor is gonna tell me whether or not I'm doing a really good job at that. So while you're being vulnerable with your clients, you then have to be vulnerable with your supervisor to take the good, the bad, the ugly, and that within itself is very, very hard. So it helped me as a person be able to take constructive criticism better. And it also allows me to be able to sit in the space and like really understand my client more of how hard it is to be that vulnerable in a space so intimate. So it also gave me like another perspective of things, too. Hit me, girl.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so question going off of that, and and maybe this is just my own brain kind of putting it together, but for both of you as well. So can we clarify the difference between supervision and therapists doing their own therapy? Because I feel like there there is a for sure distinction, but almost the way that you just answered that was like, and I and I totally resonate with everything you're saying of like the vulnerability piece. But I do wonder then of people thinking that supervision is like therapy for clinicians and it's different.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I think that's a great question, you know, because it can come across very confusing about what it's the difference is. And I think the main difference is figuring out, you know, supervision is to kind of learn and grow in the field. Whereas therapy might be how can I take those emotions that I'm being triggered in supervision and kind of work with them more individually on myself and on my own. Supervision is processing my emotions, maybe that shame vulnerability that's triggered the field, and how can I not let that impact my client? Whereas my own individual supervision may become, okay, I'm removing myself from work, and I how can I work on that shame and vulnerability with myself?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because supervision too, it's not about me as a person, it's about me as a clinician. So, right, like me bringing to be very vulnerable and honest with our listeners. Like I go to therapy to like process my fear of dying. I'm not going to supervision to talk to my supervisor about my fear of dying, right? Like I talk to him about my clients and what they're growing through and how I'm holding that and how I'm processing it with them and what I'm doing as the clinician to make sure that like ethically, emotionally, like everything I'm doing is sound to what is going to be best for my client versus in therapy, I have don't even talk about my clients. Like it is all about just me. And I know for supervision, and Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong, because obviously this is more your space. Like, if I'm having transfer countertransference with a client, I can process that in my supervision. But again, that wouldn't be something I'm bringing to therapy.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that that's where clinical supervision can kind of come in is working on your emotions and how you feel and how it may or may not directly impact your clients.

SPEAKER_01:

Erin, can you just give a quick overview of countertransference for listeners who are maybe wondering what that really means?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so countertransference and transference, they're two things that are talked a lot about, I think, uh in the clinical world and on our side. And it basically is where you remind me of someone I know. And whether that be my mom, my dad, and you know, how I feel about my mom or dad is may impact how I am working with you as a client. And transference is very real on the other side, which is you know how the client may feel about me, and if I remind them of someone in their life.

SPEAKER_00:

And then those are really important to talk about in supervision, but also like to Aaron's point about transference. It's always really important for the client and you to have that conversation because if I remind you of someone that bothers you, our therapeutic relationship isn't going to work. If I remind you of someone that you like, then like, yes, that is still transference, but it's a little, it could impact greatly on therapy because then maybe the boundaries are very gray because I remind you so much of someone that you are very closely and emotionally connected to when like a therapy and a friend are like very different. But the counter-transference is the same thing, right? Like if you remind me of, you know, my great aunt who like says things to me that I don't like, and my client reminds me of that, and that's in the back of my head, I might be a little more snippy, or that might like make me interpret what that person is saying differently than what it is that that individual is saying because of my framework based on that counter transference.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. So I think therapeutic relationship that goes such a long way when it comes to therapy in general and what you may feel like you're gonna get out of therapy.

SPEAKER_00:

I agree. So speaking of the therapeutic relationship and how important it is, I know one of the things that Maggie and I were like uber excited to talk to you about was how to find someone that you can have that really healthy and beneficial therapeutic relationship. Because one of the things that Maggie and I hear is, you know, I feel like I didn't have a great relationship with a dietitian. Or someone says to Maggie, I feel like I didn't have a great relationship with a therapist. And I feel like I keep like shooting my shot essentially, and like it all goes to poo, right? And so for your expertise, what do you think? Two questions. What do you think makes it difficult to find a clinician that you match really well with? And what are some things to help someone find the clinician that is going to best match them?

SPEAKER_02:

So in terms of the first question, what what do I think makes it difficult about finding a maybe a therapist that you match with is it offers this level that you have to have to air quotes open up and about shame, vulnerability, you know, all these emotions that maybe you are anxious about understanding yourself. And when we go and search for a therapist, you know, it sometimes clients don't really necessarily have the language yet. And it's a lot to ask, I think, after reading a short bio or profile. Photo or in a brief consultation call. So I think some of these things might make it really difficult for a client to really understand what they are looking for.

SPEAKER_01:

And I wonder too, we were talking about the topic of transference. And to now think, okay, a client is going online to find a therapist. They're, I think you know where I'm going with this, Jess. I hope it makes sense. But okay, so they're going on, they're right, reading a short bio, they're looking at somebody's picture. And of course, some of those elements are going to come in of, you know, maybe this person has a shared interest that I have, right? Because as providers, when we write our bio, we usually put a little something personal in there, right? We keep it pretty general. But like, you know, my husband and I have a dog, or you know, whatever it is, something like that that we put in there. So I feel like from the client perspective, they're going on, they're looking, they're trying to find that connection. And how do we have that connection not lead to transference? Because that's tricky.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. And a lot of times, you know, a client might, you know, feel like they might mess that up, right? Where they are on the search and they're searching, searching, searching. They see something, read someone's bio, and they're like, oh, this person seems like a good match, they're just like me. And that also might trigger some feelings of, well, I did this wrong. You know, I picked incorrectly. And that might make them feel anxious again about going back to the star of, you know, now do I have to find someone the opposite air quotes again, the opposite of me or someone who is different than me? So maybe that's something, you know, we a client can talk about with their therapist directly, like that sort of transfers that maybe they feel.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that you brought up that question, Maggie, because I think it is so true that the way that a client finds a clinician is just looking at a bio and looking at a picture and being like, sure, I'll tell you all my deepest, darkest secrets and fears and all, like, let me be super vulnerable and I don't know you. And there was this, I don't know if you guys saw it, but there was this Instagram or this TikTok video of this woman being like, Well, my insurance changed, so now I have to find a new therapist. And she literally records herself looking through all the pictures of the clinicians on like something like psychology today. And she was like, This person hate your picture, don't want to see you. This person, oh, you have something interesting. I guess you could be an option. And like, if you think about the process of how I like to say to clients, if you have to shop for a therapist, shop for a therapist, go in, like meet people, do what you have to do to like find the person, but also give it a few sessions, unless you get like a really big feeling. But like I digress. But like it's so interesting how uh the way that you find your person is just by like uh exhibit A, what's behind door number one? Like it's not like it is such an interesting system when you think about it. So, and I I so I get your question, Maggie. Like, how do you look at a picture, read someone's bio, and not be like, oh, I do connect with you in this way? So we could have this similarity, this transference here, and not have that be part of the foundation then for that therapeutic or dietary then relationship.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And I and and you both can correct me too, but I I think the difference lies in is it impacting the work? Right. Because to me, transference has an impact on the work. Whereas, you know, having a connection or right, choosing a provider because you felt like there was something that kind of drew you to that person may not then have an impact on the work. So I also think like there's a degree of separation there.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. And I think it when you do are trying to find a therapist for you, that's a big thing to look for. You know, what therapist is going to hear me? Because as a therapist myself, you know, I would hope my clients would feel safe enough if they are experiencing transference for with me, for example. You know, and I and I say that because I want my clients to feel heard and validated that they can talk to me about the hard things. And that is definitely something I think for clients to keep in mind about when they do kind of shop for their therapist. Like, who's gonna hear me?

SPEAKER_01:

How can a client? I mean, I guess this is kind of a silly question, but I'm like, how can a client know that? You know, when they are looking, or I guess maybe more so what my question is is what are the questions a client should be asking themselves when they are looking to find a provider to try to find somebody that might be a good fit? Because I think it's really hard to, you know, again, like we've been saying, but it's really hard to look at a short paragraph bio, you know, and one photo of somebody, if there even is a photo, and have that, you know, like clarity of this is the person. So, what are some of the questions or things that maybe a client should ask themselves or look for?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I I think some good questions to maybe ask is who makes me feel safe? Who makes me feel heard? Who is going to, you know, under not necessarily understand, but not judge me. Because I think, you know, sometimes people, when they're especially in the eating disorder community, you know, like think about judgment and they feel judged or judging themselves, and they want to feel safe, they want to feel validated, they want to feel heard. So I think it's okay to ask, and I encourage clients myself to ask me what my experience is like working with their specific need. What success maybe have I had when I've worked with clients with their need? Or how do I respond to conversations with my clients or themselves? They might want to ask how how collaborative the work is. You know, what does progress look like to you? And I don't think that's about testing me or a therapist. I think it's just about getting your answers and your needs heard.

SPEAKER_01:

We also we we recently talked about this in a past episode when we interviewed Courtney, who's a PT, but we talked a bit about advocating for yourself as a client or as a patient. And I think this is a great kind of opportunity for that as well, because it can feel maybe a little intimidating for a client to reach out and be like, here's all my questions that I have, or in a first session, you know, here's all the questions that I have, where they almost feel like they're interviewing you or, you know, maybe testing you in some way. But I mean, I can speak from the provider role. I love when clients come in and it's a, you know, whether it's a kind of an intro call or it's a first session, and they do have a lot of questions and they want to know what is your nutrition philosophy? How do you approach, you know, meal planning with me? How are you going to approach whatever the situation is? And I think, you know, I want clients to know that too, that we welcome those questions because we want them to feel like it's a good fit, or that, you know, again, if it isn't a good fit, that's okay too. And it's okay for them to ask their questions, figure that out, and then you know, we can help direct them to somebody that maybe is what they're looking for in that moment, too. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

I always say, like, trust your gut. What feels right to you, what doesn't feel right to you, because when we think of kind of going back too, it's like therapy is a relationship, and I would want my clients to get what they need out of this service.

SPEAKER_00:

I know I say that to clients all the time, especially, I know Maggie and I have talked about this in sessions with clients too. Like, not only do I want you to be able to advocate for what you want throughout therapy in in general, but even in the moment, right? So even if that's like a client is coming and they're saying something that's bothering them, you know, Maggie and I might sit there and be like, okay, what do you want from me right now? Are you advocating for me to support you and just to validate you and stick here with your feelings? Or are we looking to do something with here? Are we processing it and trying to find a solution, right? And I feel like clients do get very nervous of saying what they want because I think sometimes there's this preconceived notion that yes, therapy is for the client to create change, but like it's the therapist who's like making it all happen. So like if the client is saying, hey, I need this for my therapy, it's almost taking away from the provider. But actually, in reality, you're doing exactly what need what therapy is all about, right? You're learning that form of advocacy and the art of it in such a safe space. And we want you to do that so then you can take it into the real world and then be able to really do these things. So I feel like it is I, you know, I've I've seen clients that are like, oh, well, you know, I was looking for this, but like I was afraid to ask. And it's like, no, go ahead. Like this is your space, and we want you to be able to do this elsewhere. And if we're the stomping grounds for it, stomp away. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think by asking questions, that can help a client, you know, feel in control of what their therapy is gonna look like. So it, you know, I mean therapist, you know, I don't take it personal. If a client's on a consult consult call asking me 10 questions, you know, you are taking control out of what you need, right? Kind of like going back to like the self-advocacy and asking questions, you know, like as you're you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I'm sure you both have experienced this too. Unfortunately, I feel like this is something I've noticed throughout my whole career and and I'm still noticing, which is is just really challenging. But most often clients are coming into me not having had a good experience with a dietitian in the past. And unfortunately, that that just has always felt like the norm. Hopefully, that changes in the future. And I'm, you know, hoping to be somebody that sparked some of that change. But I think too, you know, something I always ask clients is, you know, can you tell me more about what was helpful from that work in the past or what wasn't helpful about that work in the past? And I think too, I always clarify I'm not asking you to critique the provider, right? We're talking about the work, the support. So that way, you know, I can best understand what didn't work for you in the past and you know, how we can make this work going forward. Because I always think too, for a client, I, and I say this all the time, like it's your session, it's not my session, you know, and we want clients to feel like they can come in and be empowered and, you know, get to really talk about the things that they want to talk about. But if there is that past not so great experience, it makes sense that there's going to be a barrier there to start. There's gonna be a wall up there to start. So I always like to ask a lot about that too, so that way, you know, we can start to take that wall down because we need that rapport, and like you both said earlier, we need that relationship in order for them to trust me and trust anything that I'm gonna be saying about nutrition.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I can definitely concur that, you know, I've had since Maggie, you and I share a bunch of clients, like a lot of clients, especially from the dietitian, like specifically from you, appreciate that question so much or like, or that statement of like, this is for you, like you tell me like what has worked and what hasn't, because it makes them feel, Aaron, like you were saying, it makes them feel seen. It makes them feel like their negative experience is not being neglected or like pushed to the side. Like we're actually caring and like we want their experience to be different in the past, and it is a breath of fresh air. And I've had clients say that when they'll come on and be like, wow, Maggie was really great. And she asked me this question about like what I went through, and she wanted to know like my history, and like people don't always get the space to tell about themselves. So I think you know, Maggie, you're doing a great job. What clients have said, but also it's a compliment. Look how uncomfortable she is. But it's also you know, but it's also it is very important. And that actually brings me a question for you, Erin, since you are a supervisor, bringing it back to our original topic. Do you see that as providers with you in supervision? Like, do you feel like there's some providers that are like uncomfortable advocating or uncomfortable saying things, and you almost have to break through that barrier like you would with a client?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. No, I think sometimes providers are afraid or maybe that shame, kind of going back to shame of feeling like I did something wrong. And processing that in clinical supervision that you did something wrong is essential to kind of the growth of a clinician or a provider. And instead of take tackling it, you know, again, what shame tells us about ourselves or makes us feel like we are about ourselves, you know, reframing it of well, what can I do differently? And working through that feeling, negative emotions and how you can bring that to your client's sessions.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because I feel like, especially with individual supervision, when you think about the format of it, like the literal, like we're sitting in an office or sitting on a Zoom, like it is identical to therapy. So I can imagine that, you know, being a supervisor, that exchange could be very similar to that of like a client and a clinician.

SPEAKER_01:

So, Aaron, something I'm curious to ask you about too is if a client is really feeling like their current provider isn't a good fit for them, what advice would you maybe have for them? Because we know that could bring up, you know, a lot of feelings for a client and maybe not exactly knowing what to do in those moments, too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think my first piece of advice would be is that that's a human experience and what you are feeling is valid and normal. You know, because sometimes I I think with therapy is you know, our needs change, and it's natural for relationships to change as well. So my first thought is, you know, try talking to your current provider about this that you're feeling, that there's something not working for you, and is there something that maybe you can do differently here? And if you feel like you are still not getting what you need out of that clinical session, you're not doing anything wrong by searching for a new provider. You know, this 45 minutes to an hour session is dedicated to you, and you deserve to get what you need out of it.

SPEAKER_01:

And I would just add to that too, because I think, you know, as providers, we we have all gone through this where, you know, for a whole host of reasons, a client wants to pause or terminate. And I I totally hear you, and I think like the transparency of that is so helpful for both parties, too, because you know, we've used the word relationship a couple of times, right? That like a relationship between a client and a clinician is a therapeutic relationship. And, you know, there's multiple parties involved there. So just like when any relationship ends, people feel unsettled if there isn't closure. And so, you know, I've had clients bring that up before where they've said, you know, I've stopped seeing this provider, I just didn't answer them, or I, you know, I didn't tell them. And they left that feeling really unsettled because there wasn't that closure there. So even though it can feel maybe not like the most comfortable conversation in the world to have a, you know, a pausing or a termination conversation, it can be really therapeutic and beneficial for that closure too. Because then that provider could recommend, like, you know, maybe that session, we talk about termination and recommendations and what that looks like, or we schedule a time to really do that. And so that way there is kind of that closure and that plan of care for that client too. So I I think that's an important piece with it well, like as well, clients feeling empowered, you know, that that they can have that conversation and the benefits of having that conversation, even when it is uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02:

I like the word empowering a lot. Because I I I think feeling empowered in your care can help a client feel what's best and what's safest for them. And when you you get that closure and you feel like you're honoring what you need, that can also be helpful to kind of bring into when you do search for your new provider.

SPEAKER_00:

I also feel like just the whole, like Maggie, how you just described all of that. And I agree with everything you and Erin just said about it being so empowering, like you terminating or advocating, like that's part of your individual growth, right? So, like, even taking it out of the therapeutic framework, you're challenging something within yourself. And so, like that within the whole realm of things is exactly what this whole process is for, right? So, even learning how to have that difficult conversation with someone. I don't know if this is therapeutic or not to say, but if you're trying to terminate with a clinician, you're never gonna see that person again. So if there's anybody to try and have this conversation with, it's them. You know what I mean? Like you do it, if it works, it doesn't work, whatever have you, and then you're kind of like wipe your hands from it. So, like it's also a really great way to challenge, throwing it out there, right? Anyone questioning? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I I I I like the way you said that too, because a lot of times in life we uh people can be avoided, right? And when we avoid, where's the change? So a good practice, you know, yeah, practice it with your therapists as you are, and then you're not as avoided the next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's a win-win for everybody if you think about it. We're challenging the avoidance or we're challenging the discomfort, and then you never have to see them again. So you're like nicely not ghosting, but you're like doing the thing, then you don't have to worry about it.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I I heard once, or I think it was back in grad school, actually, because it always like really stood out to me. Is in we only have to be honest once. And by talking to your therapist about closure and you know, maybe what's not working, is we really only have to be honest with that person one time. Because then less we can say that, like, okay, I was honest, I was open, and I did my job.

SPEAKER_00:

I like that. Yeah, because if you lie, then you gotta keep up with the lies, and then it's a whole big web. But once you're honest, it's out there, it's done. Yeah. I like it. I'm gonna steal that from you. Thank you so much. I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

No problem.

SPEAKER_00:

I remember talking a whole conversation in grad school and it still sticks with me today. I was was just curious. Do you like individual or group supervision more?

unknown:

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_02:

I I don't really know if I have a necessarily a preference because I see the benefit in both of them. Where in group supervision I love getting the teamwork. I'm I'm a very big team player and I'm very big collaborating on team and I love that team response, that team collaboration. Multiple clinicians in one setting getting information. So I love that piece of the group supervision. An individual, you know, sometimes again, I'm human, so maybe imposter syndrome will come up and I'm like, I don't feel comfortable asking this question in front of a bunch of people. So I I think I hate to say it, but there's that gray area of like it depends on what I would mean in that moment.

SPEAKER_00:

No, so fair. Very, very fair. Well, thank you, Erin, for letting us pick your brain about group supervision and individual supervision. Once again, I know I said in the beginning, I feel like it's not like a hot topic in the realm of like with clients, but I think just for the field, it's so important. And I love that we were able to have this conversation so clients do understand that like we do work really hard at trying to be the best provider for them. And also thank you for being so vulnerable in identifying what clients can do to help find their person because I know that can be sometimes of like a taboo, like we were saying, a taboo topic. So thank you for being that voice for people so they know that it is normal and it is okay to shop around and some tips and tricks on how to find their best fit for clinicians. So we really just thank you for being here today and letting us chat away.

SPEAKER_02:

Of course. Thank you so much again for having me. I really enjoyed being here and chatting with the both of you. And, you know, this is great. I think mental health, eating disorders, it's you know, a great field to be in. And, you know, I enjoy helping and supporting any way I can. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

And I just selfishly feel like, you know, I've worked with you two both so much over the past couple of years, and you know, have benefited so much from like the collaboration and the supervision that we've all done together, too. So this was so fun. It was so nice to like get an hour to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00:

Alrighty. Well, thank you everyone for tuning in to this episode, and we will catch you in the next one. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_00:

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