Breaking Stereotypes & Embracing Yourself: Eating Disorder Recovery for Males

 You can’t heal what you can’t name. We sit down with recovery coach and advocate Eric Pothen to name what often goes unseen: how eating disorders affect men, why stereotypes keep them silent, and what real support looks like when shame and masculinity collide. Eric’s story fuels a wider movement for representation—from launching EmbraceWare, an apparel brand that donates to treatment and sparks conversation, to building spaces where men can show up as they are and feel understood.

We dig into the signs most people miss in men: the normalization of bulking and cutting, obsessive macro tracking, and how gym culture masks distress as discipline. Eric explains why anger often becomes the only “safe” emotion, what’s under that iceberg of irritability, and how to create a neutral space around diagnosis so men can approach recovery without losing their identity. He shares practical steps to move through fear—drafting before posting, confiding in one trusted person, treating discomfort as information not danger—and the mindset shifts that make courage a daily practice.

You’ll hear where men can find community through meal support groups and advocacy networks, plus how loved ones can help without centering the illness: ask better questions about how gender shapes the struggle, accept partial answers, and keep seeing the whole person—musician, friend, dog dad—instead of only the diagnosis. The message is clear and hopeful: your story is valid even if others don’t understand it yet. Embrace is more than a word on a hoodie; it’s a way to soften around reality and move forward together. If this conversation opened something for you, follow, rate, and share the show—then tell us what stereotype you want to dismantle next.

Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.

Resource links:

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/

How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand

Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)

Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)

If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

Transcript

Welcome, Trigger Warning, And Sponsor

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health. Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Their expert team works with you to achieve recovery and avoid the need for higher levels of care. Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.org because healing happens here.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode on the Nourish and Empower podcast. Today we have Eric Pothin, who is a certified eating disorder recovery coach who guides individuals towards freedom, connection, and self-compassion in their relationships with food and body. His coaching is deeply rooted in his own lived experience with an eating disorder, allowing him to show up for clients with empathy, honesty, and the belief that recovery is possible for everyone, especially for men and the LGBTQ folks who rarely see themselves represented in the conversation. Eric advocates nationally for eating disorder awareness through his roles on the Peer Council for Nita and the Community Advisory Committee for ANAD. He is the founder of EmbraceWare, a mission-driven apparel brand designed to spark conversations and promote self-acceptance, and the host of Embracing You, a podcast that amplifies stories of healing, identity, and self-love. Eric is currently pursuing his degree in counseling at St. Mary's University of Minnesota, working toward becoming an eating disorder therapist for men and members of the LGBTQ communities. Eric, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

And real quick, because I almost did forget, I got very excited about just starting, but trigger warning for today's episode is that we will be discussing eating disorders, body image, diet culture, and mental health. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment, and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. And you can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes. Now we can really start. Hi.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

A good disclaimer though.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

It's always necessary, always needed, but sometimes I get too excited to have the conversation that I'm like, forget it. Well, it's fine. We'll do it later.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Thank you so much. And I mean, we obviously have a lot that we want to ask you, but then I hear all of these wonderful things in your bio and I'm like, oh, I want to know about this apparel brand too. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that was one of the first things that I did once I started to advocate in the space of eating disorders and eating disorders awareness. So I had shared my story of living with an eating disorder during COVID, which I feel like a lot of us during that time were faced with a lot of our, you know, deeper parts of ourselves, of our stories that we just were kind of forced to sit with in a way. And so that's always been one part of my story that I feel like I have felt a little bit of shame surrounding. But I shared my story of living with an eating disorder and received so much great feedback from folks like, wow, that was, I really needed to hear that. Like, that is something that I feel like I've experienced, and it feels really good to see someone else share their own story. And so anyway, that really kind of just sparked something within me of like, I want to do more because the need is there. So I started to do some advocacy work on social media. And then part of me was like, I want to make this more large scale, right? Beyond just posting, what else could I possibly do? And for me, that an idea that came to mind was an apparel company. And so I came up with the name embraceware is by I listed out, you know, what are the goals of the advocacy work that I do and what I'm trying to promote? And then a word really stood out to me, and it was the word embrace. Because I think the more that we can honor and embrace ourselves, our stories, the good, the bad, the ugly, the less shame and guilt there were there will be in moving forward with that. And so that's how I actually, yeah, got the name embraceware. And so it's a clothing company, as I mentioned, but it just is really meant to spark conversations, right? A lot of the apparel says embrace, just embrace, period. And so it's supposed to spark conversation. Tell me more, what do you mean by embrace? Right. And so I think I really want folks to begin to have more conversations of, you know, like we need to embrace ourselves, we need to embrace our bodies, we need to just embrace and accept who we are as individuals. And so, yeah, that's kind of been a passion project of mine. And it just it feels good to be able to have something else outside of advocacy work, like directly via social media, just to continue to drive the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

I love a clothing place. I have to now go shopping. Say less. Thank you so much. So, what kind of, you know, just to like go down there, what made you go into clothing, right? Was it because of how body image is so tied into eating disorders? Like, was it that deeply rooted into what made you think about that? Because I love how you got the name. And one of the things Maggie and I always ask, especially when clinicians have their own practice, right, is like, what made you think of that? The name? And so I love that not only you have, you know, your own practice, but also that we have the clothing. And it's yeah, I just I love the the reason for the name, but why clothes? And what kind of clothes?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, that's yes, that's a great question. I think for me, I was thinking, what would be something that folks would want that would feel accessible in a way that they would want to quote unquote consume or purchase.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

And for me, I don't know, but when I see a mental health organization selling apparel, I'm like, I want to support that, right? And so I think for me, another part of my clothing company too is I actually donate 10% of proceeds to a local eating disorder clinic here in Minnesota. So it's a clothing company that gives back too. And so I think when trying to bring people into my product, it's I feel like people want to know too, especially if part of the proceeds are going somewhere, they want to see the impact of that. Yeah. And so I think also being able to say, oh, 10% of proceeds go to this local eating disorder clinic. I mean, people can share that too when they're talking about the clothing with someone. And then because I can tell, I couldn't tell you the number of times that I start talking about eating disorders with someone, and they're like, I know someone who has struggled with an eating disorder. And so it's they are much more common than I think people who aren't in this space think they are. And it's always really eye-opening, I think, for them to realize like, whoa, we are more, these are more prevalent than I think they are.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Yeah. And like you said, it's a conversation starter. And I think especially, you know, as part of our conversation today is going to be specifically about, you know, males in the eating disorder community. I imagine even that conversation starter for people that are not as well informed, and then hearing, oh, there's, you know, a man that founded this that's behind all of this. And it starts to spark some of that conversation, you know, or questions for them.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's why I feel so passionate about being in the eating disorder space as a male, because in the I'm also an eating disorder recovery coach. And a majority, I'd say almost all, but one of my clients are currently men. And the they show up to consultation calls, and they're like, you are one of the few men that I found doing this work in this space.

SPEAKER_05 8:48

Yeah.

Why Clothing Sparks Hard Conversations

SPEAKER_00 8:49

And so I think a lot of why I choose to continue to show up in this space, and what I feel really passionate about is really beginning to hopefully create a movement and the shift and a shift in the way that we, you know, define what eating disorders can look like. Right. Because I feel like there still are a lot of stereotypes surrounding quote unquote what an eating disorder looks like, who can develop an eating disorder? So I just feel so passionate about breaking barriers and continuing to hopefully open the blinders is an imagery that I really love to use. Continue to open the blinders on just what eating disorders can actually look like.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah. What are some of those stereotypes that you feel like you specifically see when it comes to eating disorders in men?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think the biggest one is people don't think men can develop eating disorders. I actually was having a conversation with my mom a couple of weeks ago. And I feel like when I was struggling with my eating disorder, we never labeled it as an eating disorder because I never I never received formal treatment or help for my eating disorder. And so I found recovery all on my own, which I would never recommend or encourage. I would like it like feel comfortable reaching out for support. However, there are barriers to that, which I'm sure we will talk about. But anyway, you know, now that I've been in recovery and doing advocacy work for a number of years, you know, my mom had asked me on the phone, she's like, Do men really get eating disorders? I'm like, they do.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah, ma.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Of course, you know I had one. And she was like, it can't be that many that do. I'm like, no, it's actually the data shows one and three right now. But I think it's I get curious about what it actually is, because if you think about those one and three, those are the men that choose to report when that survey is sent out, and think about all the men that might be feeling that shame to self-report that they do have an eating disorder, right? And so I think that's one of the biggest ones is that men don't get eating disorders, one of the biggest stereotypes. I think another one that we when we enter into the space of men and eating disorders is that if you are a man and you have an eating disorder, you know, you're basically, I mean, I feel like a common judgment or just misconception people have is that you're gay. Because I feel like when we think about the men that choose to share their stories, I feel like of the men that I have connected with, I'd say a majority are gay. Of course, I've connected with men that are heterosexual and have shared their stories too. But I really want to begin to debunk that stereotype that if you're a man struggling with an eating disorder, that does not mean that they are gay, right? For the people listening, right? If you know a male who might be struggling, I mean, yeah, just it's I find that part really interesting. And I think that just comes down, as I mentioned, to those that do choose to share their story openly as well. Those two I'd say are pretty big, pretty big stereotypes within the community for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah. It's crazy because I know Maggie and I do a lot of presentations, and even thinking about this now, right? It never really like clicked before. But even when we present Men are just a statistic. It's not like part of the whole conversation with us, right? Like we put it in there of like, yes, men do struggle, and they, you know, also struggle with every single type of eating disorder. There isn't one specific eating disorder for a specific gender. And but it is even, you know, because a lot of the times the audience, from what we can tell, is majority of women also, that like we are seeing in the and you know, in the audience. But it is interesting that even thinking about how we present. It's not that we're only using like female pronouns and things like that, but I feel like it kind of just feels more feminine than it does masculine or inclusive, unless we're saying the statistic for men. That statistic also I feel like is wild. Because I've been I feel like Maggie, correct me if I'm wrong, if my memory serves me right, the last few times we've been talking about men and eating disorders, it's been a not larger, but the one in three, I feel like is very new. That statistic from what I remember us presenting, which is crazy. Which honestly, I this is I hope this comes out the right way, but I love to hear that because to me it then says that people are more comfortable actually sharing that they're struggling and they're seeking the help and they're looking for recovery instead of it being one in four, one in eight, one in ten. So I I hate that people are struggling, but I love that people are searching for support.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Absolutely. I love that reframe too. I think that the deep advocate in me is like, I want more men to feel comfortable reporting if they really are living with an eating disorder.

SPEAKER_05 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

But I love the reframe on that, right? Because that number probably did used to be like one in eight, one in ten were men, right? So I think we view that as progress and that we're shifting in the right direction for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah. Cause it could be like, right, if people are hearing this and like, why are you happy? The statistic is like more men are sick. And it's like, no, I'm not happy they're sick. But we do want to see like a progression in who's seeking help, right? Just like obviously, like, I hate that COVID was a thing, but one of the biggest like reframes and takeaways is that mental health was actually taken a lot more seriously once COVID happened. So if there's anything, and Maggie and I say all the time that both of us are a lot of big positive patties, or like we have big like golden retriever energy. So one of the things that I love to highlight is like we have to find the positives in life. And COVID allowed us to have the space to realize that mental health is such a big proponent and like component of life that we have to pay attention to. So yes, I like reframing to positives. One thing too that I wanted to ask you is if you're comfortable sharing, you know, what do you feel like for you personally, but also for men that you've worked with? What are signs that family and friends might miss when a male has an eating disorder? Right. Because I'm even thinking my brother was a big wrestler in high school, right? And so that was the season of manorexia in my air quotes. And a lot of times, you know, thankfully it wasn't my brother, but a lot of times men will continue those behaviors and people aren't really thinking anything about it because, like, oh, they're in season, they're out of season, whatever have you. And so I feel like for men, it is something that's not noticed a lot. So for you or for your clients, you know, what are those misconceptions and things that are missed?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah, and I I even want to take it a step further and even say some medical providers.

unknown 16:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Right? Because we know that that can often be a barrier too for I think all individuals, right? If we're thinking just primary care physicians.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Yeah.

Stereotypes And The One-In-Three Data

SPEAKER_00 16:22

And so I think a couple of things, and one of the biggest things, too, is you know, for men, I feel like eating disorders maybe aren't necessarily equated with quote unquote being thin. For men in particular, I feel like it the goal is often leanness and being muscular, right? It's not about being thin, but it's like having the chiseled body in a way. And so I think sometimes when we are entering into the space of warning signs that can be missed, I think it's often, you know, thinking about, as you mentioned with wrestlers and whatnot too, but with men who are in the space of weightlifting, it's this constant cycling of bulking and cutting and bulking and cutting. And the thing is, I feel like there is not a lot of like attention given to that behavior because I feel like gym culture and going to the gym and doing that process has just been like reinforced and people don't bat an eye at it. And so I think often that weight cycling that can sometimes come with weightlifting, you know, is often missed as a warning sign for them. I even think too, the within that community, too, macros, if we're still talking about strength and weight training, this obsession with hitting macros, hitting your protein goal for the day, you know, low carb, all of these things. But once again, it's what I find interesting is that within the space of men, people don't bat an eye. But if we were to enter into the space of women and talk about some of these behaviors, I feel like there would be a lot more eyebrows raising in that context. And so I think they are a lot more sneaky in nature for men and for people to be able to identify. I think with all of this, too, what can feel really challenging is I think society's perspective too, they don't think men can develop eating disorders. And so that's probably why a large majority of these behaviors aren't, you know, looked at at a closer level. But I think to other, you know, signs and symptoms that might be overmissed. I think even more withdrawal. I know that's a pretty common symptom for those who may be struggling with an eating disorder, and anger. I feel like anger is one thing that I have talked about my clients with anger and irritability, but intense levels of that. And so, yeah, I just feel like the biggest thing is when it comes to the space of movement and a lot of those certain behaviors that are yeah, not given enough time and attention as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

So you just made my therapy brain go like crazy for a little bit. Yeah, exactly. Because men have a difficulty sharing their feelings to begin with, right? And when you said men show like an extreme level of anger, it made me think that's I'm making a generalization just for the sake of this context, but like that's the only emotion they're they feel safe feeling and showing and expressing. So I'm even more curious in your experience, what is it like for men who are so malnourished or so fixated and struggling with an eating disorder, then having spiked levels of anger, you know, what shame and guilt is wrapped up in that? And how much more difficulty do men experience of having to like break through those like masculine societal barriers on top of everything else in recovery? Because I feel like it's different for women, right? Like women show a lot of emotions, they're dramatic, they're a lot, whatever, whatever. But it still makes sense for them to show emotion. Whereas for men, it's like, whoa, I was so emotional, you're a guy. You know what I mean? So, like, I'm even curious what that's like for your clients.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, and I think I mean, hearing you talk, I'm like, that's the complexity of being a male and living with an eating disorder. Yeah. Like almost to a T, right? Because I feel like we might feel what shows on the external world is anger and irritability. But on the inside is a lot of that internalized shame and guilt.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

It's the iceberg, the iceberg.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yes, 100%. And so I think what often, you know, I feel like some of the first steps are in my work with clients is even creating a space of neutrality for maybe their official diagnosis of living with an eating of an eating disorder. Right. And so I think it's it can be a lot for men to jump from, you know, struggling to identifying with the eating disorder diagnosis. I think a large part of that is, as you mentioned, too, the societal beliefs, right? Like there's a lot of judgment of self when you think about it, and the men that you know I've spent some time working with of just like, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed to be a man and living with an eating disorder. And so the shame and guilt that's wrapped up surrounding that, and so a lot of the work. At the beginning is just creating a space of, yeah, as I mentioned, neutrality and just being able to eventually like embrace the fact that it is okay for you to be a male. You have permission, you are allowed to be a male and have an eating disorder. And so there's so much tension and friction in that sort of work that I've found. And I and it's not that we talk about it once and you know they feel good about it. I mean, this is something that continues to be interwoven and tangled into the messy middle of recovery.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Yeah.

Gym Culture, Bulking/Cutting, And Missed Signs

SPEAKER_00 22:36

And so, yeah, it just is so complex, I think, in that regard. And especially for straight men, because I think they they've talked to me about the fear of being judged as gay for having an eating disorder. And so I think there is that is some interesting conversations that we're able to have in that space as well. But and I think too thinking about vulnerability in and of itself. And when now we're starting to talk about uh gender norms, right, in that regard. But I often think that men have been conditioned for many, many, many, many, many years that being a man means keeping all of your emotions in, right? Mr. Tough Guy. And for me, I feel like I've always been the exact opposite of that since I was a little kid. It's really interesting because I could see how it was potentially reinforced from maybe other family members. Maybe not my dad. My dad was such a positive role model for me in the expression of emotions. And so I feel very grateful for that. But I think for a majority of other men, it's how do I be vulnerable? Because then it questions their masculinity. And so that just makes the whole process even more challenging. In fear of judgment, I feel like if we were to boil it down for a lot of men who are entering into the space of, you know, eating disorder recovery, it's fear of judgment for sure. And so yeah, it just is so challenging, I think, to be a male in this space because it can feel really isolating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

I feel like everything you're emphasizing, too, just goes to show how layered and how deeply rooted all of this is, especially when you add in those elements of shame that this maybe has been going on a lot longer for somebody than they have even realized. And we had a listener question come in for you that's similar to the topic right now. So the question said that the lack of representation can often make you feel like quote unquote wrong for feeling the way you feel or having the experiences you have. So really asking how you found validation in sharing your own journey as one worthy of your own attention, but then also how you've been able to share that so openly with others.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

That's a really great question. Yeah, I mean, representation, of course, can feel so lack of representation, excuse me, can make you feel so isolated in this space, right? Because you don't fit the societal view of you know what it looks like or who can develop an eating disorder. And then I think too, being a male, it's like that comparison game that can come into the picture of like, especially when we look into, you know, especially with the men I've worked with who have received higher levels of care, they tell me that they've been the only male in, you know, they're treat like in that community. And so thinking about that, that I would imagine, really escalates that feeling of that you're wrong, right? Or that you've done something quote unquote wrong in that regard. And because there isn't a lot of representation, you know, I feel like it, of course, it makes sense that you might be feeling that your experiences aren't valid in a way. That's one of my favorite phrases. It makes sense that, right? It just that self-validation I find can really allow for some nice softening to occur and just it allows us to be able to provide compassion to ourselves. But I think for me, where the validation in my own journey has come from is recognizing that my experience doesn't need to look like everybody else's for it to be valid.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

How did you get there? Because I feel like, regardless of gender, I feel like a lot of people play that comparison game, right? Or it's like, oh, I'm not sick enough because of this, or like, oh, I'm not. You know, it's like, oh, well, you deal with this, but you don't know my experience, right? There's it is just that that that struggle there. So how did you get to the place, especially because you didn't have treatment, right? You did this solo dolo, which kudos to you. But so, like, how did you give yourself that validation and that self-reassurance? Because I feel like that within itself, wow, this is so many so layered. But I feel like giving yourself self-reassurance is so difficult on top of like finding not like not comparing. So, like, how did you do that?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah, that's a great question. And I don't know if I've ever reflected on that. So, this is gonna be healing and probably therapeutic for me in some regard too. But I feel like for me, especially when it came into me, I think, finally honoring and embracing my story. Yeah, in particular, I think it was there was just something within me that was like, if you just stop, like to me, it almost felt like two ends of a magnet, like the same end of the magnet, were pushing together and then they repel.

SPEAKER_05 28:02

Yeah, right.

Anger, Shame, And Masculinity Barriers

SPEAKER_00 28:03

That's how I felt about you know, just my own experience with an eating disorder and how it felt to like actually embrace it. Right. And so I I want to also acknowledge, too, that because I found recovery on my own, I wasn't interacting with other folks who had that lived experience. So for me, it makes sense why there might be some additional layers or challenges of why it might be hard to embrace your journey as your own and whatnot. But I think at the end of the day, it's recognizing too that like I deserve to take up space. My story deserves to be seen as it is because I can guarantee you there are parts of my story that don't align with your story or might not be similar to your story. And I think for me, even too, when I have these conversations, it's like I want to be able to share my story and maybe have just one piece of my story be able to resonate with someone instead of looking for differences, right? And as you said, comparing and making this some sort of competition. Why don't we instead try to find community? Right, and feel safe in thinking to ourselves, like, wow, this feels really hard to embrace my story as it is, and I might not be as sick as that other person. But me choosing to honor and embrace my story is gonna allow a me to heal, and B, if I choose to share my story, it might make someone else feel more seen and inspired to recover.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

As well. So yeah, I would imagine that would be really challenging for those though who are around others actively in the space of recovery as well, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Yeah, something I feel like comes up, you know, at all different levels in treatment is just like how eating disorders can thrive in isolation. And that, you know, by opening the door, letting people in, as challenging as that can be, especially given everything we're talking about, you know, with the misconceptions and the lack of representation, but like opening up that door, letting people in, like bringing in that connection, you know, that's really where the recovery space kind of thrives. And so you've mentioned isolation a few times. And, you know, especially for men trying to find a community of people who have had similar experiences, who, you know, have gone through their eating disorder and are now in recovery. What recommendations do you have for somebody who's looking for more of that community component?

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like this relates, and that's a fantastic question too. I think for me, what this all comes back to is you know, leaning into vulnerability and finding ways to share your story that feels good. Right. I feel like for me, that's how a lot of men found my work, found me, right? And so if that feels comfortable for you, and once again, find a way that it feels authentic to yourself to share, to put yourself out there. Excuse me, but even think too about what other, you know, support groups are out there for men in eating disorder recovery, right? So thinking about even meal support groups. So I know Anid has one, ERC has one, and then renewed eating disorder support. They have a male meal support group. And so leaning into spaces like that to try and build community in that regard and make connections in that space too. But I also think, yeah, I just feel like there is not a lot of men out there that are actively doing this work. And sadly, I think the one of the few ways to really make a shift and hopefully get more people to do that is we need more vulnerability, we need more courage. Because yes, it I want to totally hold space for you know, any men that are listening and they hear me say, sharing your story, right? Well, yeah, that can feel really scary and intimidating. So I know that might not be in the cards for everyone, right? But even reaching out to your therapist and be asking, do you know of any other maybe just general men's support groups?

SPEAKER_03 32:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

And maybe it's not specifically related to eating disorders, right? But maybe just even getting connected with other men who are able to express their emotions, right? And maybe aren't as afraid of vulnerability as well. And so yeah, I there are so many challenges, I think, for men to find community in this space. But I will tell you, once you find them, you keep them by your side. And so if any men that are listening are looking for another man to have in their circles, I will be that person for you. So just know that my messages are always open and that if you are looking for other men to connect with, I do have other men, right? And so thinking about systems of support, I want to be able to be that for you and connect, if that would feel helpful.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Was the reception of like to sharing your story different than you expected it to be?

Validating Your Story Without Comparison

SPEAKER_00 33:44

100%, yes. I love that you asked that question, Maggie, because I think so many times, especially when we think about entering into the space of vulnerability, anxiety can get in the way of us being vulnerable. And so we don't lean into it and we just keep it in. And so I think for so long, especially when I was, you know, in a pretty early space of recovery, I didn't still didn't feel comfortable maybe sharing with others that I was living with an eating disorder. Because while I was struggling, I tried to mask and hide it as much as I can. I tried to say, oh no, I'm just working out more and not eating enough to keep up with my levels of movement. And so I think there was a lot of fear, and I think having the spotlight be on me, which I was like, that's not me as a person. And I don't want people worrying about me. That's also something that I really struggle with, is I don't want people to worry. But I think when I chose to share my story, of course, I felt really nervous of like, whoa, what is how is this gonna be received? But once again, I just came back to tell myself of like maybe maybe I feel like I was placing too much emphasis on how it would be received, leading up to me sharing. And I think that kept me back. But I think for me, it's like I'm just gonna take that leap of faith and do it, right? It felt very authentic and real for me to share the time that I did. And so fear was how I felt prior, but it was met with open arms. There was so much love and support and encouragement. That was behind the share. And so I think I love that you asked that question because sometimes I think anxiety can really paint an unrealistic picture, right? Or make us think about all the different options. And that's me engaging that overthinking cycle of, okay, well, if I post this, how would this person respond? How would this person respond? Might I lose friends? I would hope not, and sharing your story of living with an eating disorder. But, you know, I think it's all the what-ifs. But I'd say it it it felt so good, I think, on the other side of it to realize none of these what-ifs, all my biggest fears happened.

unknown 36:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

And that's not to say that for everyone that shares their stories, that that's gonna be the reality. But I will say of those that I have interacted with that said they have also shared their stories publicly on social media or with friends or with family or in whatever way that feels good to them, it allows them to lean in and embrace their experience even more. And honestly, I think there's a sense of pride. And I think that's that essence of self-compassion that I think is so important when we enter into the space of eating disorder recovery.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

I'm curious, you know, with that, you being able to take that leap of faith, right? And to just be like, all right, we're doing it. What would you say was helpful for you to make that plunge, right? Because I feel like even if we're just talking about anxiety in general or like, you know, going for the job, an interview, asking somebody out on a date, right? Like that feeling is so universal for different reasons. And I feel like people are always saying, like, oh, when I feel the motivation, I'm going to do it, or like, oh, when I'm not nervous anymore, I'm going to do it. But people don't recognize that like the only way you feel motivated or the only way you feel not afraid is by taking the step, right? Like we feel motivated by action, not because uh we have the idea to do it. So, what was it for you that helped you blow through that physical barrier, right? Because we feel so strongly in our bodies, and that's what makes us not want to do it because we feel like we're gonna like have an anxiety attack. So, what would you recommend for people listening in of like how to break through that internal barrier of fear?

SPEAKER_00 37:50

That's a I love that you bring that up. And uh I maybe I can give a couple con like how I would answer that in different contexts. I think for me, when it came to sharing my story, you know, what I I mean, I had this as a draft. I couldn't tell you how for how long, right? I had the post ready to go. I also had friends, close friends that I had shared my story with, read it. Right. And I think even opening the door in that way, finding more tangible steps first before taking that huge leap of faith, right? Can be really helpful. Because sometimes I think people, and I think that's where the all or nothing sort of thinking comes into play here, right? That black and white thinking of the only way to do it is by doing this, right? I'm like, no, take it, take it. Let's find incremental steps, right? That can build up to you taking this action. But I think what I learned like most in that entire process was I feel like I was never going to feel fully ready to make that post. Right. And so I think it what I did is I challenged that belief in that regard of like you need to feel fully ready, or there is going to be this internal feedback, right? Physiologically, mentally, all of these things that I should feel when I feel ready. And I can tell you, for things like that, and I'm thinking back to other parts of my life, I still felt the nerves, I still felt the fear, right? Thinking about applying for colleges, right? Before you hit submit, there's probably so I felt a lot of fear of like, well, what if I don't get in? Should I even apply to this college? Should I even apply to this job? What if I don't even get an interview? And so it's recognizing that it's not trying to get rid of it, it is moving with it and being okay and and and and reminding yourself that discomfort doesn't necessarily mean danger. And so I think learning that can be so important too, right? I'm not in danger by feeling fearful. This is just what my mind is perceiving as something that could happen, not will happen. And so learning how to make that and be a part of that dance, I think, uh, is something uh worth looking into and practicing.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

God, I'm so glad you're here. That was so beautifully said. Because it's true, right? And that's the whole concept of fight, f fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, right? Is that your brain tries to figure out the best way to protect you and it makes sense that you want to shut down and not do these things. But just like you said, and I it just because you're panicking doesn't mean you're in danger. And I feel like people automatically compute the two and it's not mutually exclusive. I'm so glad you said that. It was so good.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

And it's something I often talk about with clients, you know, during meal support sessions, too, right? Because I think it's often that fear that holds them back, right? Or it's that it's oh, they feel discomfort maybe taking this first bite. And they think, oh, I'm too I feel really afraid. I too I'm I'm too fearful to do that.

SPEAKER_05 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

And so it holds them back from doing it, right? Yeah. And so recognizing and reminding them of like, this is just a thought that I'm having.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Right. It's not, it might be true, it might not be true. Let's get curious about it. And so entering into that space and just checking the validity of some of these thoughts, as we know they can be pretty irrational. That eating disorder voice is very much so grounded in irrational thinking as well. And so for me, I think it makes sense that the eating disorder probably thinks very irrationally because it is pretty based in fear when it gets activated. So Yeah.

Vulnerability, Community, And Finding Support

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Eric, what would you say to someone who had the awful experience of sharing their story and it wasn't received well, whether online or or even more personal, like a family member? What would what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Good question.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Yeah, that's a great question. I might need to pause and think on that here.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah, because then that just makes you know, that then brings the anxiety validation. And that makes things then like ten times harder for people too.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. For me, I always love mantras. I just that's something that can feel really powerful for me. And I think in that moment, something that I would find even myself saying, and once again, it's I want to embrace probably the emotions that probably surface as a result of that. Maybe some like disappointment or feeling really sad. It's like I embrace that. I want to like embrace those emotions as they come up and be able to tell myself, like, my story might not resonate with everybody, and that's okay. My story doesn't need to be, you know, fully embraced by others for it to still be valid. And bringing it back, my experience is my experience, and that is enough. Right. And it just, yeah, it I feel really sad thinking about for those that do choose to share their stories, and it isn't met with open arms. And maybe it's met with, oh, I think you're just being really dramatic. I don't think there's anything wrong. I'm even thinking about folks that are even just taking that courageous step to bring up that something is maybe wrong. And so I think just you are the expert of your own experience. You don't need validation from anybody else. That validation can come from within. And it might be hard to allow that to fully sink in. And if that is something new for you in the space of providing self validation. It might not sit immediately, and that's okay. But for me, it's let's get ourselves familiar with what those phrases sound like, right? And getting the language reinforced. Because I think once we begin to become comfortable with the language, I think thinking incremental steps, right? Okay, now we have now that language is familiar. Let's see if we can open the blinders and open the heart a little bit for that to actually sink in and maybe identify what barriers are in the way for me to allow that to come in. Is it self-worth? I don't think I'm worthy enough to provide that validation to myself and being able to say my story is important to me, and that's enough.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

You're so eloquent. I'm gonna clip that for listeners, but I also like want to clip that for myself. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. And I also want to say, too, you mentioned the word embrace, obviously, when we first started talking. And I feel like so many times throughout this conversation, I'm like, you found your word for sure. Like you are in, you know, in so many different ways that you've answered it, and so many different ways that you're an advocate. And I just want to highlight that because you know, we we understand what it's like to try and you know figure out the name of something. We spent a lot of time coming up with nourish and empower. And I'm sure you spent a lot of time too. And I I think it's so spot on for everything that you embody. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Thank you. I appreciate that. And I don't know, when I just hear that word, I just picture every time it's just like such a big warm hug, right? That just like that allows me to just like melt and soften. Right. When I embrace it, there isn't this sense of resistance to it all. And I just think so much of recovery and you know, maybe any mental health challenges, is we resist it so much. We're like, I don't want to feel the thing, I don't want to feel the thing. But what I find really interesting, at least in the work that I've done, and I feel like this is my approach, is no, we actually need to feel the thing. We need to embrace feeling the thing. You continuing to avoid that is going to continue to make things feel probably really challenging. So much worse. And so let's let's find once again, incremental steps, let's find a small opening that we can provide some softening and build that sense of safety and build that sense of maybe trust with self, trust with the emotions, trust with the stories our mind is telling us in those moments. And so I think the more that we can embrace and allow what is to be, the journey be can become a lot less challenging in a way. Of course, there's still gonna be a maneuvering a lot of the emotions that come up with it, but I think it's gonna allow for that forward feeling momentum instead of just feeling stuck.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Right. One last question for you. So anybody who's listening who's a a friend, a parent, a partner, how can they best support their person who is, you know, struggling with an eating disorder and or you know, in the in the recovery process?

Sharing Publicly: Fear, Feedback, And Courage

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Is this with men in particular? Or yeah, that's a great question. I think it's so interesting because I was just having a conversation the other day about this. And I think each man or each male struggling with eating disorder is gonna have different needs, right? Different things that are gonna land with them. And so I think one thing that we that I kind of was able to bring to the surface in that conversation was for me, I think once again, I never received formal help or treatment, but I think when I enter into spaces, I think gender is a really important part of you know my lived experience. Right. And so I want to bring that to the surface. And I think for some men, right, being able to understand and recognize that maybe they because they are a male struggling with an eating disorder, and that's something that might be outside of the box, that they maybe don't want extra attention given. They don't want the situation to maybe be blown out of proportion. Oh, you're a male living with eating disorder, like this is really rare, or you know, really just making the situation feel a lot more bigger than what it could be, I guess. And so just getting curious, asking, like, what role does gender play for you? Like, how is being how does being a man right now influence your recovery journey, influence some of the challenges you may be experiencing? Because I think opening the door and asking that, that's where you're gonna get the answers that I feel like you need, right? Not just asking how can I support you? No, how how does being a man make your recovery journey feel challenging? And so, in and in what ways can I support you on that journey? Right? I think too, it's allowing men to share what feels comfortable for them in that moment because I don't know about you, but when people are trying to pull more out of me and that wall is up, I'm gonna keep pushing back. Right. And so I think be okay with not getting everything, right? Remember, you are there to help them. I'm sure there's a part of you internally that's like, I need to like fill that helper role, and that in turn like can make me feel good, but don't take it personally if they maybe aren't opening the door the first time you enter into that conversation with them. Continue to build a relationship with them that doesn't involve the eating disorder part of them, right? Still see them as an individual, right? Because I don't know. I just for me, I don't want to be seen as the person living with an eating disorder. I want to be seen as that can be a part of me, but I also am a musician, I'm an advocate, I'm a writer, I'm a reader, I have a dog, I'm a dog dad. I have all these different parts of my identity that make me me. And so I don't want my soul and only identity to be someone with an eating disorder. And so continue seeing them for who they are, continue to engage in activities that you normally would with them. And once again, I think this is this differs from male to male, but I think just let the eating disorder be a part of their journey, right? Support them in ways that feel good for them. And once again, practice humility, practice, you know, saying I don't know how to help you, right? That can be really powerful. And being able to, yeah, just tap into that. And I think that can speak measures. I feel really stuck on how to help you right now. I want to be there for you. How can I help you? Help me help you, and essentially, but yeah, just see them as a person, right? And I think sometimes when I enter into these spaces of having conversations about men and eating disorders, I think something that's often brought up is like, well, how do I work with a man who has an eating disorder? Right? Of course, you mentioned the complexity and all the different layers and facets of being a male and living with an eating disorder. But at the end, we are still human, right? Act as if you are working with a human being, right? Just because we might be someone that you might not normally or traditionally work with, you know how to work with them, right? You know how to work with healing an eating disorder or having conversations about an eating disorder with them. So apply it into this space. We're human, right? We we want to have conversations. We want to, you know, we want to feel that sense of compassion and belonging. So there's that too of I don't feel like we need quote unquote special treatment. We just want to be seen. We want our experiences validated. We want to feel supported.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

I love that so much. Especially because I feel like one of the things that we see in clients, male or female, is the difficulty in separating eating disorders from their identity. So I love that you highlighted see them as a human. Because sometimes people feel like having an eating disorder is the only part that people will see, right? And so they, you know, it's just such this difficulty of realizing for the the client, you are more than that. So if people are only seeing them as sick or if they're only having a conversation with them based on the eating disorder, it's like, no, we're losing a whole part here, right? Like we need to make that separation. So I love you made that distinction because I feel like that's super important. And the other thing that I love, and then I will shut up because I know that I talk too much, um, is that there's the part of the power in saying, I don't know how to help you. Can you tell me what you need? And Maggie and I talk about that all the time, especially in family therapy of like two things. One, it's okay for you not to know. And two, give yourself the power to dominate and like actually have control, right? Because eating disorders is a big proponent of like, I just want to feel like I'm in control of my life. So if you want control, here's a legitimate space that you have healthy control. So take it, take up the space, take the control. And I just, those are the two things that I just wanted to like really emphasize that I loved that you brought up because I feel like they're huge things, regardless of gender, that people do struggle with. So I love that.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

Yeah, thank you.

unknown 54:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Oh my god, are you kidding? Thank you. You are amazing. I just want to hang out with you now. I just want to like do something. Like there's just so much.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

We could chat all day.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Yeah, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Listen, I just loved it. You asked some really great questions, by the way. I think these are some of the most unique questions I've answered on a podcast that don't necessarily feel surface level in a way. And so I appreciate, I feel like a lot of your questions got at the complexity of being a male and living with an eating disorder. So kudos to you.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Oh, thanks. Thank you. Yeah, we appreciate that because we've been trying to like pull back the curtain a little bit for people of how much time, and obviously you have a podcast, so you know how much time goes into it, but we we do spend a lot of time. I mean, we've met two different times to come up with some of these questions for you. So, like, we do, you know, we really wanted it to be obviously helpful for listeners and you know, and to be able to, you know, encourage you to share all the wonderful things that you did. So thank you so much for your time today.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

No, thank you. This is great. Absolutely. And listen, we'd love to have you back. So if there's ever anything too where you're like, hey, let's jump back on, you know how to find us.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Yes. Count me in. Count me in.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Yay.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Okay.

When Your Story Isn’t Received Well

SPEAKER_02 55:24

Amazing. All right. Well, thank you so much to everybody listening in as well. If you have further questions for Eric, we'll post about how you can find him and all the wonderful advocacy work that he's doing as well. And we will catch you here next time. Thanks, guys. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

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