Nourish & Empower

ARFID Andrew Redefines Food Exposures

• Jessica Coviello & Maggie Lefavor • Season 2 • Episode 15

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Fear, texture, and shame don’t stand a chance when the stakes are low and the support is real. We’re joined by creator Andrew Luber also known as, ARFID Andrew, whose wildly honest food exposures have helped thousands put words to what ARFID actually feels like: a body that misfires at the sight, smell, and feel of certain foods, and a brain that plans the entire day around avoiding them. Andrew opens up about why rigid rituals backfire, how spontaneity reduces anticipatory anxiety, and the unexpected role of humor in building tolerance without making the struggle a joke.We dig into the difference between picky eating and ARFID’s “day-shaping” reality, then reframe recovery through the lens of process addiction. Instead of fighting a substance, you’re reversing an avoidance pattern, approaching what you’d usually escape. Andrew shares how filming with friends, treating exposures like low-pressure moments, and expecting the occasional gag reflex can take the edge off. We trade practical strategies: scaling exposures, changing textures and formats, pairing new foods with safe ones, and avoiding the “just one more bite” trap that turns mealtime into a test. From rapid-fire food takes (bananas as the ultimate nemesis, “complimentary” rice, cottage cheese as baby formula energy) to navigating restaurants, dating, and family meals, this conversation is both candid and compassionate. Andrew also previews his upcoming film “An ARFID Date” and a new peer support offering built in partnership with therapists and dietitians. If you’re a parent, partner, or professional, you’ll leave with language, tools, and perspective to keep mealtimes lighter and progress sustainable.Subscribe for more honest conversations on mental health, nutrition, and recovery. If this helped, share it with someone who needs a lower-stakes next step, and leave a review so others can find the show.


Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.


Resource links:

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/


How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand


Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)


Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)


If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.


Support the show

Welcome, Sponsor, And Trigger Warning

SPEAKER_03

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_05

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

Meet Andrew Luber And RFIT Origin

SPEAKER_03

Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com because healing happens here. Hi everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast. We have Andrew Luber with us, also known as RFIT Andrew on TikTok and Instagram. And something that I found, Andrew, when I was doing some research on you. Saw something that you wrote that said, like, RFIT is a term that encapsulates my unique relationship with food, but it's now part of my life journey, one that I'm lucky enough to share with all of you. So we're gonna talk a little bit more about that today, but I loved that. And just before we get started, as always, we have a trigger warning. Today we will be discussing eating disorders, specifically RFID. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment, and it's not a replacement for meeting with a dietitian, mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes. Welcome, welcome. We are so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for having me. I'm excited too.

SPEAKER_05

I'm gonna try real hard not to fangirl the entire time, but we're gonna see how it works.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so we, you know, like we were talking about before we started recording. So Jess and I work at a practice together. I'm a dietitian, she's a therapist, and we have a bunch of other therapists with us. And whenever we are sharing resources for any of our RFIT clients, you are always the first name that comes up. And so we were so excited to get a chance to talk to you. And we actually had some colleagues of ours and some listeners with RFIT send in some questions for you. So a lot of people are are really looking forward to this episode.

SPEAKER_00

I'm so honored. It's awesome to hear that, honestly.

SPEAKER_05

Did you ever think I've never was Oh, sorry, go go.

SPEAKER_00

No, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05

I was gonna say, did you ever think that when you started your account that this is ever where you would be today?

SPEAKER_00

No. No. I I mean this was something at first that was a fun thing to do. Not that exposures are fun because they're absolutely not. Just that just fun to make content with like my writing partner. But it was funny, like seeing myself doing it is funny from my perspective, but living it, it's it sucks. It's the worst thing ever. So no, I I didn't expect any woman to care, honestly. Like that's so funny. So no, the answer is no.

Filming Exposures And Being Genuine

SPEAKER_05

That's so funny. Because like Maggie and I said, right, like so many people in our practice utilize you as like a huge resource for our clients that struggle with our fidd. So it's so funny that you were like, Oh, I don't think like anybody would care. And here we are, and we're like, no, everybody cares. Like, you are like such a monumental person for so many people in like our line of work. So honestly, thank you for taking the plunge and doing it because you help so many people. And not only just like, I hope this comes off the right way, but not only like for like recovery reasons or like feeling connected, but also like entertainment-wise, like you're just such like a like an enjoyable soul to watch.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. I mean, I I definitely just myself, and I think when people are doing food exposures, especially on camera, it's hard to really act genuine because you don't want to be judged. And I think like a big part of doing it's exposures is judging yourself, and also I mean, for me, like the fear of throwing up and just like gagging on the food, I can't I hate it. It's like that feeling that your body's just rejecting it. I think it's all it all coincides with that self-judging aspect that you have, yeah, that people have, I guess. And I just try to really be my genuine self, express my emotions, express however I'm feeling, regardless of how like silly or ridiculous it comes off, because it helps. It helps.

Why No Rituals: Lowering The Stakes

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. There's such a vulnerability to not just, you know, like the food exposures in general, but then the filming aspects of the film of the food exposures too. So I'm curious how you like how do you ready yourself for filming a you know, a food challenge? Is there like anything that you kind of do ahead of time to get yourself in that in that mode?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I actually have I kind of I kind of just I do it with my friends or my girlfriend. Like that's the that's that's like the main way I would say I prepare. I don't there's no like routine or ritual. I just like to be around other people that I'm very close with. But that that's because it's also I see how I'm entertaining them. And that kind of motivates me too, because it makes me feel like this is okay that I'm like this, and that it's okay that I have to put myself out there and try. And people being entertained by it kind of makes it normal for me to do it on a regular basis. So I would say those are like the factors that go into it.

SPEAKER_05

I love the fact that you said there isn't a ritual because I know like with the line of work that Maggie and I do, rituals and rigidity are a big thing that clients struggle with. So knowing that you're able to do this and it doesn't have to be so routined and so compulsive, I feel like really allows people to see that it can be natural. And even if it is difficult, it doesn't have to be ritualistic in nature in order for you to be able to build the confidence and the courage to do something. So I actually love that that's your system, that it's just very like free-flowing.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate that. I I couldn't imagine it being like a rigid systematic thing because I would build up so much anxiety doing that. And that's just like anti, anti-good, anti-good. Don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_05

No, I agree. And a lot of people, right, they'll feel like having the ritual is going to actually make things each easier because you're planning for it and you're expecting it. But just like you said, there's more anticipation, and they're you're then hyper-fixating on when it's gonna happen, what you're doing, and all that. So it actually is very counterintuitive. So I again, right? Like, I just love that you you have that thought process and that's how you're feeling. And like we're having this conversation now, so people can see that from someone who's not just actively like struggling with our fit, but are also doing it when you're posting online and being so vulnerable, and still there isn't that rigidity and ritualism with it.

Childhood, Diagnosis, And ARFID vs Picky Eating

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm I I I read a lot of philosophy and I read a lot of psychoanalysis stuff. I love like Jacques Lacan, big fan of his. And when I realized when my page blew up, and I realized, oh sh oh shit, I'm gonna have to like now do this more because I don't know, you you just kind of want to when something goes viral. Like you want to kind of keep it going, try to get more virality. I don't know. I was like, how am I gonna do this? So I like really, really thought about it, like read, did some research, and it's it was kind of the opposite, like the conclusion I got was the opposite thing that I thought, which was to not have a system, like to actually not be systematic with it, because kind of do it on the fly. Because the more I do it on the fly, the more it feels like low stakes. That like the name of the game is to make the environment feel low stakes. And like I I still struggle to do that with certain foods, like a banana, like my roommate makes a smoothie every morning and it has a banana. I just like I leave the kitchen. Like I still can't even like really be like I can if I need to be, but ideally, like if if there's a way out, I'll just leave. So yeah, I'm still like working on that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I think it's it's helpful to hear too, like the spontaneity piece with all of it because a lot of the teenagers and adults that I've worked with with RFID, I feel like when they were younger, there was a lot of like rigidity with trying new foods, right? And there was a lot of structure with it. And most often I feel like when people are coming in, you know, seeking treatment as like a later teenager or an adult, I always ask them a bit about that of like, you know, do you do you like when we have food exposures like planned and we have a day and a time and this is exactly what it's going to be? Or do you feel like it's better to have it a little bit more open-ended and spontaneous? And they all say spontaneous. And I've seen so much more kind of consistency happen with food exposures going that spontaneous route, which I I think is also the opposite of what people would expect.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, like the classic thing, like when I was a kid before RFID was even coined a term, and I would just go to occupational therapy, and they just thought I was a picky eater, or like I stood on my tippy toes and I couldn't really talk until I was six. So they were just like, oh, this is just part of whatever that is. The whole thing looking back, it's like, oh, it's dinner time. Like, it's time to try something. Like, like, just like like, oh, it's lunch. I have to go sit with my friends. Who knows what they're gonna eat and like when I'm gonna be around. Like these like these static times where oh, you know something will happen with food, it just like builds up anxiety. So having it on the fly without having that like schedule of dinner time, lunch, cafeteria, whatever, was it's definitely helpful. And I think it's a lot harder when you're a kid to do that because everything is so scheduled, everything is so systematic for for children in order to educate them. I get that, but it'd be interesting to see like what a middle would look like in that in that kind of space because I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_03

So I was just gonna add to that that Jessica and I always talk about how you know when it comes to eating disorders, like when food is a stressor, it is an everyday, multiple times a day, you know, stressor. And I think that's so important to acknowledge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I was gonna say, like, it gets so stressful that I like push it down. Like I don't even think, like I don't even think about it. And then if I get like exposed in a situation, like for example, when I was a kid and like someone's eating a banana, I would have to like, it's like shock. And then I have to like strategically move away from the banana, and like nobody knows what's going on because it's like so subtle, the like strategic movements. But I'm kind of a big mouth where like I would like say it and like my friends would then chase me with the banana in like the cafeteria, and I'm like screaming. And people think I'm like joking and stuff, and like my friends from like middle school and high school, when they like see my videos, they're like, like, yeah, he's not he's not joking. Like we thought he was joking, but like clearly he's now almost 30 and he's now making videos for the public about it. He's it's it's probably a real thing, but yeah. Sorry, Jessica, you wanted to say something?

Process Addiction, Compulsions, And Avoidance

SPEAKER_05

Oh my gosh, no, you're so fine. I'm also a big mouth and I never stop talking, so please feel free to shut me up at any point. It's the Italian jersey in me. She just never is quiet. But you know, two things that you said that really like stuck to me, and one of them I remember, and the other one, this always happens to me, and I hate it. Hold on. Okay, I'm just gonna go with one that you talked about with physical, you said occupational therapy. And I think that's like such a big thing because I don't think people realize that. Oh, I remember the other thing, but I don't think people realize that RFID wasn't always a diagnosis, like it wasn't always a known thing, right? And so I'm curious for you, like question one, what was that journey like for you when like of becoming diagnosed? Was it something that was a formal diagnosis for you? Was it something because you love to read, it sounds like, and do your own research and education? Was it something that through that you kind of diagnose yourself with? And then the other thing that I was gonna say, more of a statement, and I love that you and Maggie both like touched upon this, is that it is an everyday stressor. And when you're trying to overcome RFID or, you know, anorexia, bulimia, ben genie, whatever it is, people don't recognize that you're not overcoming, like how do I want to say this? Some of the times in our in our work, we will to a certain degree compare eating disorders and substance abuse, right? Because there is an addictive form to it, right? And so I think it's so important what you guys just highlighted on because you're not taking away food and being like, great, once you get rid of it, everything's gonna be fine. Like the thing that stressed you out and that you're addicted to will always then be in your life. Whereas with substance abuse, you take it away and you don't have to interact with it as much as you do with food, right? And so I think it's always so important to highlight just no matter where in your journey you are, like that stressor is literally there multiple times a day, every day. And it can be very like mentally, emotionally, physically draining and exhausting. So that was statement question. What was the journey like?

SPEAKER_00

No, I I I like I I like the comparison to drug addiction or just addict addiction as such, honestly. I mean, when I found out about because I do want to touch on that for a sec, but I I'll answer your question first. I my friend sent me uh the eight-year-old girl Hannah.

SPEAKER_01

I love her.

SPEAKER_00

And I met her and her mom, and they're very lovely. They both they live in LA. Very sweet. I got a pic I got a picture with her and I posted it.

SPEAKER_01

Um I've seen that, yes.

Food Pushing, Anger, And Better Support

SPEAKER_00

Um nice kitchen. Her mom has a great kitchen. But basically, I saw a video, I'm like, okay. Like my friends in my group chat, they're like, Yeah, this is you, obviously. And it was like so self-evident. And then I like look it up, I'm looking about like I'm like, oh my god, I'm avoided. I I have like there's different, I mean you guys know this, but like there's different categories of like what kind of Arfid you have. And like I love going out to restaurants, I love the vibe of a restaurant, I love doing that, but basically I I read it, I read it up on it, and then I literally just reached out to a doctor and then had the Zoom call with them, had a one conversation, and they were like, Yeah, you you definitely have it. Now, do I know if that's like a formal diagnosis? Like she didn't like check my pulse or whatever, but like I spoke to the doctor, she was like, Yeah, you definitely have it. Because by the when I started my journey, I didn't eat anything. Like, I there's so many things I've never had before, and I would just like avoid. And like anytime I would come trying, like come close to trying to eat it, I would just start gagging. And like I would, I would have I would be seeing spots. I still see spots. I see spots, I'll have to lay down. Like, it's like a whole like my body, I'll say on videos, like my body is shutting down. Like, I whenever I'm doing like a food exposure thing, my relationship with language is is is completely fucked up. Like I can't talk normal, I can't reflect properly, like everything is out of whack. And I then kind of made up a rule because so many people started asking me, like, how do you know when you have RFID? And like my rule is if you the difference between RFID and picky eating is if you shape your day around what you eat, you have RFID. Like, picky eaters don't shape their day around what they eat, like they'll go through their day not thinking about it. Like, historically, and I've been getting better at this, like, if people are going out to eat, I want to know the restaurant before I go out so I can look at the menu. Not because I'm like wanting to know what to eat, it's like, am I gonna be able to eat at this restaurant? And that's like a huge difference. So, yeah, that that's the answer to to the question. And then with like your analogy with addiction, people that are in like AA or in those type of programs, it's they don't have it in their lives. So the compulsion aspect is to like negate the action, constantly negating the action. Where like with RFID, the compulsion's kind of like the inverse, where it's like, it's it's like you're not negating you, you basically, at least how I see it, it's like you have to kind of overcome what you're negating. You have to like put yourself in an uncomfortable position to like overcome it. And like that in itself, like it has that similar motion of compulsion where there's something that you're faced and that you have to respond to it constantly, and it's constantly it's it's just like a constant feedback loop.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I was just gonna absolutely agree with you because what I always point out to people is that like eating disorders is a process addiction, it's not a substance addiction. So, like exactly what you're saying, the part that you're a the part that is compulsive that you're trying to challenge is the avoidance, right? You're not trying to challenge the food and it's and so it's the action that we're always trying to reverse, right? And I don't think people always notice that or see it. So I love that once again, like one of the reasons why I'm so excited to have you is because like you're being able to have this conversation and to point it out to people. Because obviously Maggie and I like having the conversation as providers, people are like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. But like having someone real come through and be like, no, it's it's true. And like for you to be like, Yes, that makes sense. I'm like, ch-ching, it does. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I but you have RFID, right? Or was I am I?

Public Exposures, Entertainment, And Reframing

SPEAKER_05

No, no, so a lot of all my coworkers throughout my time of working and eating disorder practices will tell me that I have RFID. It's also agreed, like I don't have a formal diagnosis, but like the thought of a tomato, and I'm Italian, which is like sinful, but like this, like an actual tomato like grosses me out. Like I used to not be able to touch it. Like if it was on my cheeseburger, if I went to like a diner, I would I would literally sit there like this and like hold myself and I would like shake internally and I would like start to cry. Like I hate Oh my god, yeah. Oh, yeah, like it was it's a visceral reaction you have to food.

SPEAKER_00

Like the cheeseburger's done.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, like I couldn't touch it, like absolutely not. And like if someone, like someone, and then it became someone would have to take it off for me. But then if there was like tomato juice, it also didn't make sense because like I'll eat red sauce and like I'll have ketchup, but like the actual tomato, don't put it near me. But like if someone took it off and there was like juice of the tomato, I could like I needed a new bun. Like I couldn't do it. Like it's so I yeah, I I yes, I understand you. I do.

SPEAKER_00

I I totally I I am now able to take a tomato off and eat a cheeseburger, which is like huge, amazing, huge. I've never been able to do that. The cheeseburger would be chalked in the past.

SPEAKER_05

I would need to order something new, or I would just be so turned off by it that I would like, okay, like I'll just eat at a later time. Like I can't do it. But people don't understand like the entire from like, like you said, like your brain just shuts down, your body shuts down, like you have no ability to actually explain what's happening. But then you do, like, then you start to feel like, okay, well, like, am I crazy? Like, am I wrong? Like, what's happening here? And then you have this whole internal dialogue. And sometimes it can be like you look cool, calm, collect, and then other times you are an absolute tornado to the out to the outside world, and it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And then and then you're making me think another huge mis people will respond to be like, he could just be loading up on cheese pizza. You know, like I like it's true. Like, I love bread. I love bread. So do we have peanut butter and jelly? Like, like, I'll I will overeat. Like, that's the thing. The things that I love, I will overeat. And like, it's it's hard for people. Everyday people that aren't aren't in that world or have it to understand that it's a spectrum and it comes in all different shapes and sizes, but it's still the same like psychological movement pattern. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Frank.

SPEAKER_00

Just wanted to squeeze that in there.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's like how you said it's a spectrum of like, and also all different ages, right? I think, you know, that's such an important piece with it too. But I appreciate both of you sharing like the physicality that comes in when you're so overwhelmed, you know, mentally, emotionally, and then you, you know, you physically start to react to that because you know, I've I've heard this from so many clients too, of just like all of the pressure that comes in when you're trying something. And we of course know like we have those like quote unquote food pusher people, right? Who are gonna be like, just try it, just try it. Do you like it? What do you think? And how overwhelming and uncomfortable that can feel when you have like physical stuff going on, mental stuff going on, and then people like also kind of bombarding you with questions about it too. So, how do you handle stuff like that?

Making Mealtimes Light For Kids

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I mean, for the video, like like I don't have a good when I'm doing an exposure, I can't express myself, I can't describe the food well, like I might give like a silly like analogy to what the food might be like, and like that's like on a good day with it. I think like when people push me to say, just try it, just try it. It's good for the video, it's good for the video, but in real life, like nobody does that. Like they'll they'll they'll they won't push me in like a pushy sense, they'll be like, it's so good, and they'll be eating it. Come on, have some. Like, it's more of a kind gesture to try. Where like in the video, like, especially like the first like like couple months, like my writing partner would be like, come on, take a bigger bike, come on, like he would he would like push, but like he's doing that for the views, not for me. He just knows I can handle that, because like we obviously talk about that. So I definitely like veered off a little bit from that w just because I didn't want because I noticed how many parents reached out to me, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm like actually like affecting people here, so I can't just like do whatever. I just I kind of less it's not it's not like a common thing for someone to now like be pushy on like these on my videos. Just I don't want parents to push their kids like that because that's just not the move. It's like you're actually gonna make it worse if you do that. Yeah, yeah. So sorry, Jessica, what were you gonna say?

Rapid Fire Food Reactions

SPEAKER_05

No, no, no. I was just I was just thinking, I was just laughing, but not at you, but because my my husband loves to be the pusher to the point where like there was one time he really wanted me to try an olive, and for some, I think Maggie knows the story, and for some godforsaken reason, he thought he could trick me into eating an olive by cutting out the bottom of a Reese's peanut butter cup and putting the olive inside of it and trying to get me to eat it. And I was like, You're diabolical, and I actually hate you in this moment, but obviously it didn't work because the rapper was all mushad, and I was like, something's wrong with this. Why is the rapper like whatever? So it worked out in his favor. So I was laughing because people do push and they think that they're trying to help you, but all that happens-I don't know if you experience this, but like the rage you feel when someone's trying to push you to take another bite or to try something because they don't understand the innate difficulty that you feel or like mentally and physically of trying to try a new food, like you have to mentally prepare yourself. And it's not because you have to mentally get over it, but you have to physically have to mentally prepare for the mental part, but then you have to mentally prepare about the physical part of what you feel during like a food challenge and like an exposure. And I don't think people understand how emotionally taxing that is. So when they do try and push, push, push, like you might see from people in your DMs and like parents being like, oh, like I might be pushing my kid, they don't understand how terrible that is because you're just making the experience so much worse. And obviously, there's good intent from a parent, right? But it doesn't do what it is that they're trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't experience the rage that you're talking about as much now, but like for majority of my life, I would say from like 27 and under, absolutely. It really, like this TikTok shit changed things for me in terms of that. Like, I just can't like I I mean, that's not true though. Like, I've been angry on videos, I don't know if people could tell, but like I had like that watermelon video with my mom. She was pissing me off so much. Like, she doesn't she get she gets it because I like explain it to her, but like she's definitely like old school in that way. You know, like there's there's that, and it would just be so annoying. And it's easier to be angry at your parents and your friends and like loved ones, so much easier. So, like when they would like push me, I would be like, shut the fuck up. Like, we would have like, yeah. So, yes, I I feel I feel the ri I I feel exactly what you're talking about. I mean, the name of the game is really to just like try to lower the stakes of the situation, like that's it, because that's the problem. It's such high stakes in my mind, in people with R Fitz mind. And like pushing is making it higher stakes. So it's just like the opposite of what you should do.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I had a client years ago, I love this, it's always stuck with me, would just like whatever next food he was going to try, he would just be like, Well, it's it's never gonna be as bad as like the worst food in his mind, and was like kind of playing that sort of like mind game of like, okay, well, even if this is terrible, it's not gonna be as bad as that, right? Or we would talk about like we both hate going to the dentist. I hate the dentist, and we'd be like, You're at least this isn't you at the dentist, right? Like, that's better, you know. But like some of those things that you do to just like reframe it as well can be really helpful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the the hard part is like for like olives, for example. I'm I know I'm gonna gag. Like the second it goes in my I know it's kind of like I don't know if there's anything I could do. So I kind of just surrender. I kind of just I kind of just say, I'm gonna gag. And like that's so like, yeah, like yeah, like yes, I agree with what you're saying. Like using that for certain foods for me works, like what you're saying, Maggie, where it's like it's not as worse as like you know, someone stabbing me or whatever, or just thinking about something more realistic. I was trying to be funny, they're not so funny. But um, yeah, I think like certain foods, like a pickle, I know I'm gonna gag.

SPEAKER_02

Like I hate pickles.

SPEAKER_00

It's just maybe I have to stop telling myself that, but I just in experience, it's all I've ever known. So it's it's yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So then question for you, right? Because I've seen that you do some exposures in public, right? So if you're having I could never, I don't know how I would ever do this, right? But like, how do you do that in public? And like, like, say there's a pickle on your plate and you're like, all right, I'm gonna ex- Ah, they're so wet and juicy. But like, how do you convince yourself, like, as you're saying, I know I'm gonna gag, but it is what it is. I'm gonna do this and not react. Like, as high, like, how do you keep your nervous system so calm that you don't become the outward tornado while you're doing it?

SPEAKER_00

Because I now know that I'm a source of entertainment. Like, yes, it's like, oh, I understand that this is like food exposure, and this is serious for me, and like this is serious for a lot of people. So I'm not like when I say entertainment, I'm not trying to like undermine that. But it is just a fact that I make people laugh. Like, and those things do not need to be mutually exclusive. Yeah, something can be serious and you can laugh at it. Now, obviously, that's not the case with all things, yeah. Uh like, you know, war. It's gonna be hard to laugh. But like this is not war, literally, it's meant it's psychological war, maybe, but I just now I kind of just see it as like when I'm doing this, I'm like entertaining people. Like when I'm out, if someone's like watching, they're watching. Like they're entertained. Like I have their attention, like not attention in like the egoic sense, but like attention and like I'm just entertaining them, I'm just like giving them pleasure. So I c I like doing it in public because or in private makes no difference uh anymore because I just know I'm just thinking of it as now a source of entertainment, and I think that's like a good psychological narrative to give myself in order to actually get around like the hurdle of not being embarrassed, like being ashamed of who I really am, essentially. It's it's it's just entertainment. That's that's how I see it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, what I'm hearing from there too is that it makes it easier, and Maggie and I talk about this with clients a lot. Sometimes you have to do things for like an external reason because it makes it easier to get out of your head to be able to accomplish it, right? And it sounds like this social media page has helped you externalize the reason for you to do it, and then it doesn't feel as personal, so it doesn't feel as heavy and like terrifying. Am I hearing you?

Progress Wins And Texture Terrors

SPEAKER_00

I don't know if I'm hearing you right, but that's almost like what I got from like like what I would what I would do if I had a kid with RFID now is have them like kind of on a whim, like, oh try this, blah blah blah. And then let's say they are actually trying it, I would like honestly like start laughing and be like, oh my god, this is so like I would be so lighthearted with it. Yeah, and then I'll like reward them with the food that they like, like chocolate or like a sweet treat. Because like basically my reward on TikTok or whatever is like money. So it's like so it's like it's like that's my chocolate, just because I'm an adult and I need to pay my bills. But like for a kid, they don't need to pay their bills, but like how can you how can you imitate that? Yeah, because it's like I'm getting two recognitions, like people are laughing. I'm like, I'm it's I'm creating like a lighthearted situation that I'm feeling, and then I'm rewarded for that. So I would kind of try to like mimic that but kid version. Like maybe set up like a like I would get, you know, maybe like set up the dinner table with like almost like a show where it's like there's sit like almost like a play, and like make it a whole extravagant thing in that sense, where it's like this is not serious, clearly. Yeah, like this is a joke, but it's serious for you, but this is a joke that you're doing this, and you're gonna make me laugh, child, and then I'm then I'm gonna reward you with chocolate money, yeah. And just kind of like repeat that something like that. Uh it's a little crude, but I think the sentiment is coming across.

SPEAKER_05

No, it absolutely is, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and this there's this account I love. I'm I'm blanking on the the name of the creator, but I've sent it to Jess before and we've reposted it on our podcast Instagram too. And basically it's like this mom and her toddler, and she posts all these videos about like getting her toddler to try different foods and how like she just makes it so like lighthearted and stress-free that like when the toddler makes a mess all over, drops things, or is like, you know, like, oh, that was squishy. Like they're just like joking about it, and it's so sweet. And it reminded me of what you were talking about, where it's just, and she'll even like in the captions be like, okay, I was challenging myself to like take a deep breath and like not get annoyed when she like, you know, squished the food all over the floor, whatever it is, but just like keeping the mealtimes like light and fun and not so stressful. Can we do a little like rapid fire where we say a food and you tell us like the first thing that comes to mind? Sure. Okay. The reason why I want to do this is because your like 2025 recap video that you posted, like towards the end of the year, I was with my family for the holidays and we were all watching it. And my husband and then somebody else in my family were like, Oh my god, yes, this is like always how I felt about this, but I never had the words for it. And so we made this list with some of Jessica's food preferences, and then some of my my husband was adding some this morning. He's like, Ask him about this food, ask him about that food. Um, all right, so we'll we'll rapid fire like first thing that comes to mind for you, okay? Okay, all right, mashed potatoes, heaven or hell.

SPEAKER_00

I love mashed potatoes.

SPEAKER_04

Who makes a liquid mashed potato? I'm like offended.

SPEAKER_00

Like, what the fuck? I but I like mashed potatoes. I've but heaven. Normal mashed potato, heaven.

SPEAKER_03

That's a good point, though, that with a lot of these foods, like they can be made in such different ways. So, you know, you can like the food, but then you go to the that restaurant or you're at a wedding or whatever it is, and like the mashed potatoes are so different.

SPEAKER_00

And just real quick, it's like I was saying, it's on the spectrum. Like, even for normal people, it's on the spectrum. Take steak. You either like it medium, medium rare, like like some people like, oh, it's rare. I I'm out. Yeah, oh, it's well done, I'm out. Like every it's it applies to everyone, it's just more extreme for someone with R Fidd psychologically.

SPEAKER_05

100%. And that's why people with R Fidd will want to order the same thing at the restaurant because it's love McDonald's.

Upcoming Films And Peer Support Plans

SPEAKER_03

You just like tapped into her love language right there. Love McDonald's at her wedding. She's yeah. I literally had a McDonald's.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I swear I will show you a picture later because it might take me a while to find it. But I had a McDonald's stand at my wedding. So when everyone were leaving, they could get cheeseburgers, regular burgers, chicken nuggets, or french fries. And my uncle was so hammered, he stole one of not stole, but he like borrowed one of the trays that everybody that the place was using and he put the McDonald's on the train, was going around the dance floor with McDonald's, so everyone was like dancing and drinking and eating McDonald's at my wedding.

SPEAKER_00

That's unreal.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, you know, I'm like, I'm upset.

SPEAKER_00

I might steal that idea.

SPEAKER_05

Please do. I'm like upset. I'll give you the company to you have it for the future. But like, because they were amazing. But I, you know, I love McDonald's. I feel like we just really connected even more. I'm like, oh, they love McDonald's. Thank you so much. But yeah, so that's why like they you always want something consistent because you there's no fear there. You just there's a lot of trust in that.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

Sorry, I know I just hijacked that and then McDonald's got wrapped up. So we can we can go back.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, rapid fire.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. McDonald's. Sponsor Andrew. Sponsor us, please. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_05

I would be in heaven. I don't know what I would do with myself, to be honest with you. I don't. I think I would have an hour.

SPEAKER_04

I'm with you. I'm with you.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, sorry. Okay. We will co-collaborate with you if they sponsor us. 10 out of 10. Absolutely.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, all right. Next one, chili.

SPEAKER_00

Death. Like I have a I'll just say this. Sorry, I know you were saying one word. I'm making a one of my films that's in post that I was telling you about is called an Arpid Date. And I won't say too much what it's about. Obviously, there's like you have some little idea, but the girl that's making me food on the date, the main course is chili. And it's so gross. And the whole time I'm trying to conceal my Arpid because I'm trying to like get the girl, you know? And it's like I'm I'm being self-conscious, so I don't want to like come off weird because I think RFID's weird.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But like there's more, a lot more to it, but chili is disgusting.

SPEAKER_05

Is it any chili or is it the spectrum of like chili with beans is a no, but chili without beans is a yes.

SPEAKER_00

So this is how I thought all chili had beans. No, you can take the beans out.

SPEAKER_04

You can make chili without beans because I'm with you on beans. I hate beans, but if there's no beans in the chili, I feel safer.

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, I'm probably gonna try chili now without beans. I'm probably gonna like it a lot more. Huh. Okay, okay, okay. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

Listen, I'm here. I mean help you, help me, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

New food trial. Mm-hmm. Okay, grape tomatoes.

SPEAKER_00

What are they?

SPEAKER_03

Grape tomatoes, like the little tomatoes.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, oh, manure. I think of like dirt, manure tastes like dirt. I've tried them once and it's it was literally like dirt. I didn't like it. Okay, cottage cheese. Baby formula.

Final Reflections And Calls To Follow

SPEAKER_04

Love, I'm obsessed with your answers. I love these.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, what's the next one I have here? Okay, rice.

SPEAKER_00

Complimentary.

SPEAKER_03

Ooh. I like it. Okay, bananas.

SPEAKER_00

I stopped reincarnating. I don't know. Like, I like all possible life is over. Like, it's just uh I don't know, just like diarrhea, baby mush stuff. I don't know, just like uh like even like because I'm in this podcast and now I'm like, oh I'm now thinking about when I would put a banana in front of me, and it's just like my hands are sweating already.

SPEAKER_03

If your your like 2025 recap video went at the end and you were like, and my mortal enemy, bananas, I lost it. I was like, that is just describing it like that was so good.

SPEAKER_00

I can't, I hopefully one day my dad thinks when I'm like 50 that I'm gonna actually love them. And I'm gonna look back and be like, that was so funny how much I hated them for most of my life.

SPEAKER_05

But oh, can I ask a question? I know I'm like hijacking this like rapid fire. But has the is there a food that you couldn't even look at that now like you have that experience already with? That you're like, oh wow, remember when I used to not even be able to like be in the same room and now you can eat it and it's not a problem?

SPEAKER_00

That I couldn't even look at.

SPEAKER_05

Or maybe not that extreme, but like you couldn't chop chop liver.

SPEAKER_00

I don't like it, but I've I've been able to swallow it. I've been able and I thought it tasted okay. I've only done that once.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

But chop liver, I'll say pomegranate. Also, not too many. Like, only because like the foods were just like I can't even look at. Those are tough. Those are tough. I mean, I yeah, not a lot comes to mind. Maybe a tomato. Honestly, I put it, I've tried a bite of an in-and-out burger with a tomato. Yeah, it wasn't too it it was bad, but not too bad.

SPEAKER_03

Cup liver is such a unique cancer. That was not what I was expecting. I will say that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it looks and smells whack. It's so crazy. Like, I don't get how Jewish people and I'm Jewish by the way. I don't I don't get I don't get it. Some of the Jewish food, it's like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_03

That's what we thought about asking you today too, more about like holidays and like cultural foods and things like that, but then we're like, oh, we just have too much we want to ask you. So that'll be a future episode because we'd love to hear like more.

SPEAKER_00

I'd love to come back.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Besties done. All right, we just have a few more here. Okay, applesauce.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I just realized I don't think I've ever tried applesauce. I think of first word, my dad. Like I think of like yeah, my dad. A dipper. It's like a dipper. Like people dip it, right? They they use like they'll have like chicken and applesauce, and they'll use the chicken to dip it with the applesauce. So I guess the word is a dipper. A yellow, a yellow slimy dipper.

SPEAKER_03

No, it's so funny you say that because this morning when my husband and I were looking at this list, he wanted me to add applesauce on. And I was like, oh, it's so interesting. Like applesauce can be a similar texture kind of to salsa. And he was like, Yeah, but I would never eat. Salsa just like a spoon of it. He's like, I'm always dipping a chip in it. And I was like, Yeah, well, you could dip like a cinnamon pita chip in applesauce. And he agreed to try it. So food trial happening over here too. I love that.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Next one is peas.

SPEAKER_00

I think of like like dead insects or bugs. Like dead ant, like a tiny little dead ant. Like it's just like death. So again, theme here, death.

SPEAKER_04

Milk.

SPEAKER_00

Good in Cat and Crunch.

SPEAKER_05

Ooh, yes. That's my postpartum fixation, is Captain Crunch berries. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Okay. It's so good. I never had those, but ten out of ten recommend.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, okay.

unknown

I'll try them.

SPEAKER_03

Alright, and then last one, apple pie.

SPEAKER_00

Gag. Mangalion. Mm-hmm. I do not like apples, like chunked apples like that. No way. No way. Yeah. Blackberry pie though. I can do.

SPEAKER_03

Well, thank you. It's like so, yeah. So helpful to hear. And I think for people to hear too, like what your like initial first thought is and like your initial reaction. I think that helps the context too. I think that was everything we had to ask you. Is there anything else like you want to share? Anything you have coming up that you want to share with people listening?

SPEAKER_00

So I'm like starting because well, I have two films in post. One of them is called an Arpha Date, the other one's called a hunt, the hunt. Yeah, I think you guys would really love the Arpha Date. And then I'm starting like pure support business. Because so many people have reached out to me, and I've been talking to so many different like therapists and dietitians where they would say, say, like having somebody outside of me or my or their parents to like help in their process with RFID, their RPI journey. So I'm I'm definitely I'm starting I'm starting that just because so many people have reached out. But I will I only will take clients if I'm working directly with their therapist or dietitian.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_00

Like I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it because I'm not an expert by by any means, but I have the lived experience and I know what it's like dating when you have it. Like I I feel like I kind of like made it in the sense of like I have a girlfriend finally, and I have like I'm I'm probably gonna marry her. You know, you know, I love love. I have the relationship, I'm doing a lot better with my RFID compared to most people, I feel like. And I've worked really hard to get there. And I think I could help people get there. I don't think there's a cure for RFID, but I think there's a way to have like a healthy relationship with it where it's not necessarily dominating your life in such a significant way. So yeah, I I I have a website called rfitandrew.com. So if anyone's interested, or if like therapists that are listening, you think I would be a good fit for a client. I have a couple therapists and dietitians that want to set me up with their clients. I just want to make sure it's a good marriage before I before I do that. But yeah, I mean those are those are the general announcements, and yeah. And McDonald's, please give that sponsor so we could go on vacation.

SPEAKER_05

Come on!

SPEAKER_00

Be crazy.

SPEAKER_05

I would die. Literally, family members will give me like gift cards to McDonald's for like Christmas and my birthday. Like, I'm a huge stay in.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. Oh, yeah, no, I love it. That's awesome. I love Mickey. That's awesome. But yeah, thank you guys for having me. This was awesome. I love your energy. I would love to come back. Done. Um, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you. No, this is great. And and I I know we shared this earlier, but I do want to give a shout out to one of our coworkers who is like truly one of your biggest fans and is always sending your Instagram page too out to our team and you know, out to people that we're working with. But I love the idea of you doing peer support. I think it'd be so helpful. Like you're so relatable and down to earth. And I think that's like it's just you're gonna help so many people. You've already helped so many people. So thank you for all the the work that you've been doing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Thank you. I I appreciate it. I I think it it's a really incredible endeavor to like try to lower the stakes for someone with the RFID because it is hard, it is not easy, and it's a lot of trial and error. And like, I like don't want my child to have RFID, but like low-key, I would like something like that in the sense of like having to try to work with them. Like, I just wish my parents knew what is out there now when I was a kid, and I think my dad and my mom would have had way more fun with it. And that actually ironically would have lowered the stakes. And I know that's probably tough for parents to hear, my kid's not eating, or like even like in your 20s, like have fun with it. What are you talking about? Like, this isn't fun. But like ironically, I think it would actually lower the stakes, and you'll try more food if you are able to make the environment more fun.

SPEAKER_02

I love that.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks.

SPEAKER_03

All right, well, thank you so much. Thanks to everybody listening. And make sure you go follow Andrew, R Fit Andrew, on Instagram and TikTok. And we will catch you here next time. Bye, guys.

SPEAKER_00

Bye. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_03

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_05

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a rating, and comment and share with anyone else you may feel will benefit.