Nourish & Empower

When Worth Isn’t A Size: Choosing Function Over Aesthetic

• Jessica Coviello & Maggie Lefavor • Season 2 • Episode 16

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If body talk leaves you tired, you’re not alone. We dig into the honest, nuanced space between loving your body and hating it—and why body neutrality can be the most freeing path forward. With one of us practicing as a therapist and the other as a dietitian, we blend emotional insight with practical nutrition tools to help you move through tough body days without sacrificing your life, your relationships, or your meals.

We start by defining body positivity, neutrality, and negativity in plain language, then show how diet culture twists “self-love” into a checklist you can never finish. Instead of chasing a look, we pivot toward function: How does your body help you show up today? What choices—enough food, steady snacks, hydration, rest—rebuild trust when image anxiety spikes? You’ll hear how counseling meets care at the table, from psychoeducation that calms the nervous system to meal rhythms that stabilize mood and keep you present when thoughts get loud.

Postpartum realities bring the conversation to heart-level. We talk about clothes fitting again as a win for expression, not worth; how to handle body comments with a simple thank you and a boundary; and why neutrality is essential during pregnancy’s uncontrollable changes. Stretch marks, shifting curves, new textures—none of it defines your value. Presence does. Your kid won’t remember your swimsuit size; they will remember you laughing in the pool.

If you’re ready to trade perfection for presence and pressure for respect, press play and join us. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs gentler body talk, and leave a review to tell us what part helped you most.


Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.


Resource links:

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/


How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand


Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)


Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)


If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.


Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_00:

Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.

SPEAKER_02:

Hi everybody and welcome to this week's episode on the Nurse and Empowered Podcast. Today we are going to be talking about all things body neutrality, body love, postpartum, bodies changing, a whole lot of self-acceptance and self-love type of topics today. So first and foremost, trigger warning, we will be discussing eating disorders, body image, pregnancy, and postpartum. So listener discretion is advised. The show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, a licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in our show notes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yay, hi. Hey girl. Hello.

SPEAKER_02:

Happy belated Valentine's Day. Happy V Day, honey bunny. How was yours?

SPEAKER_00:

It's been it's been great. Yeah, I've had some some taste of home down in North Carolina, taste of New York. So we got Lindsay and Rainbow Cookies and an eggplant Parm Hero. And it has been lovely and it's like beautiful and sunny and yeah, very happy.

SPEAKER_02:

Day after your own heart.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. I know. I'm like, I'm a simple gal. You just feed me and bring me outside in the sun. I'm like a plant, and and I have a nice almond chai with me. So I'm like, you just hydrate me, feed me, and put me out in the sun, and I'm that's all I need.

SPEAKER_02:

Listen, we are not high maintenance girlies. No, we are now. How's yours? Good. Um, it started off with a birthday party for my niece, hence the bow in my hair today. If when this gets a clip. So my niece is obsessed with bows, so I went all out for her. Yesterday I put a bow in my hair when I went to go see her, and today I made my hair an actual bow. So it's very, very exciting. And then we have mom and dad's night out. Grandparents are getting the baby. So we're having a time. Love it. I know, so I can't. I cannot wait. So, you know, it's good.

SPEAKER_00:

It's good. Good. That's great. Yeah, and everybody does need to see your hair. We will clip it because Jess is her literal hair is in a bow. Like a bow. I don't even know how that's possible, but it looks really cute.

SPEAKER_02:

Dude, I'll teach you it. Honestly, it was so easy. You just like put your hair in like a bun, but then you put the tail forward so it's facing this way instead of this way. And then you take the tail and you put it in between it and you pin it down, boom, boom.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, for you. Yes. Sounds very easy for you. Sounds very challenging for me, but love it. So today we wanted to, you know, in the spirit of Valentine's Day, we wanted to do an episode more about body image, self-love, self-acceptance, and yeah, and also talk a little bit more about pregnancy and postpartum, since that is a topic we have had some requests to hear a little bit more from Jess about. So we'll get into that too. But to start, I know, I know you love to talk about this, so I would love to hear it from you. So a lot of times people, when they're, you know, online and looking at stuff in the space of body image, they hear a lot about body positivity and you know, body positivity versus body neutrality versus body negativity. So could you just kind of explain to people a little bit more of like what those terms mean and why, you know, body neutrality is maybe more accessible or sustainable?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I think that's such a great question. Body positivity is finding, I mean, it's literally in the words, so like I hope this sounds like eloquent, but body positivity is truly just finding positive factors and positive reasonings and mindsets around your body. The difficulty with body positivity is that people don't always find their body to be positive. And a lot of times, too, but people believe that body positivity and body love are one in the same. And so a lot of times, too, it's hard to love your body. And so one of the things that I like to teach clients is that you might not ever get there, point blank, period. And that's really hard to hear. And that's okay. Like it's realistic, right? Especially to even think, now listen, I love my body, okay? And I even have days where I'm like, oh, I feel like a sack of potatoes. And that's normal. So even if you do get to the point of body love and body positivity, you also are going to have days where you feel like a sack of potatoes. And that is okay, right? Everything is such a spectrum and nothing is black and white in this world. I just think with body positivity, I think there was also like on social media a big like toxic take to it, where it was like, oh, you feel like poo today. Have no fear, your body's here. And it's like, please kindly shut up and like go kick rocks, right? Like, it's not fair to not allow someone to sit in their feelings of not enjoying what their body feels like. It's saying you can feel like garbage in your body and your day doesn't have to stop because of it. Your mind doesn't have to feel so negative, your social life doesn't have to be clouded, your inability to experience life doesn't have to happen because of what your body feels like or how you feel in your body becomes, if that makes sense. So with body positivity, I think that's sometimes why it can get a little wonky, if you will. Body neutrality is more of just saying, like, all right, my body is what it is. I don't love it, I don't hate it. It just kind of is, right? It's like when people watch the Super Bowl, they're like, I don't really care about it, but it's cool to watch. But like if I watched it, if I didn't watch it, my life wouldn't end, regardless of you know what side of the spectrum. It's kind of similar, right? You know you have your body, you know your body does a lot for you, you know that there's this space of discomfort sometimes, and you're able to live your life as it is. You're able to pick and choose what to wear based on how you feel. You're able to go out even if you feel negative, you're able to feel okay when you feel great in your skin, right? It's a true contentment and big, big lack of hyperfixation. Body negativity is when you just downright hate your body. And it's sad because our bodies are our protective vessels for the soul, and no vessel or armor is worthy, is more worthy than somebody else's. And so body negativity, you know, a lot of our clients understand what that is because body dysmorphia is a very, very real thing, right? And I think with not being able to trust in your body because of what society or even like your internal space or like your inner circle of people, of how they talk about bodies, you might feel like you're not able to trust your body. And that can bring a lot of negative negativity into that as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I appreciate how you used the word spectrum earlier, and I was thinking that as well, where I think where some of the toxicity, yes, that we're on the on the same way, same wavelength. But I feel like where the toxicity with body positivity has come in is when it's presented as this all or nothing. Where it's like, okay, well, if you're positive about your body, you have to be positive about it every single day, every single aspect of your appearance, every single everything. And I think it's important for people to understand too that body positivity and body neutrality can coexist. Yes. When it comes to, you know, day-to-day, and when it even comes to like different aspects of somebody's appearance, right? Like there might be elements of body neutrality that you practice in the same day as elements of body positivity. And so I just wanted to point that part out too, because I think they're seen as like these three separate entities.

SPEAKER_02:

I agree. Question for the dietitian in the room. Yes, ma'am. How because I feel like your job is harder than mine. Genuinely, on very many different accounts. This specifically, that got me emotional. So please give me a second. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00:

I will also challenge your comparison there, but thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

Literally actually started crying. Like my eyes just like 100% just filled up with tears. Okay. Wowser, Bowser. Okay. So statement stands. I feel like your job is more challenging than mine. Even in the space of body struggles, right? In helping clients find that body neutrality, body positivity. I feel like it's so difficult as a dietitian because you are literally like for me, I'm just like, let's talk about it. Let's change your thoughts. Let's talk about the feelings. Where they're like, I don't want to eat because of my body. And you're like, great, let's talk about what we're gonna eat, right? Like you literally are physically and tactily challenging all of that. And so I'm just curious for you, how do you help clients be able to recognize the difference between body positivity, body neutrality, and body negativity and help them? I don't know if this is the right way to say it, but help them eat through it.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a great question. And yeah, a lot of different things popped in my mind at that point. One, I would challenge that comparison about our, you know, like the difficulty of our roles, but we'll just leave that for now. And and I I think too, and this is something that I actually think I have grown as a clinician a lot in this space. Where I think when I was a newer, younger clinician, I very much had the like fixer helper mentality, right? Which is like, you don't love your body, or you know, like you're experiencing this body negativity. Like, I'm gonna be the person that is going to change this for you.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm gonna make you love it now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I and I think that I was coming at body image as almost like this like quote unquote like problem to solve, right? But now I think as I have grown, especially with my own counseling style and have become, you know, more comfortable and more confident with it, I think I more so approach it in the space of are we looking for actions? Are we are we looking for comfort? And some clients will, and I'll ask clients that, you know, and this is something I know we've talked about on here before, because this is something I even use like in my own life. But sometimes clients will say, like, no, I really do, I I want us to work on a body image worksheet, or I want us to set a goal, or I need something specific. Yeah. And other times it it is more of me just being, and I say just, I mean it's not, it's not just just being somebody to listen, right? Somebody to not judge and for people to have that space. When it comes to the food element, two things I find really helpful here. This is where I like to provide education because I say this to clients, and you know, my clients know that this is one of like my my maggisms that I always talk about, which is I want them to have an understanding of what's going on inside their body. And so I will explain, you know, some of the certain physical elements that one could expect when it comes to some of these, you know, different body image themes, because I think that's really important for people to have education and have awareness. Yeah. And then the other piece of it too is I typically go about body image in the nutrition space as how can we still respect our bodies? So even if you are experiencing more negativity or or you're experiencing neutrality, how can we still take care of ourselves? How can we still respect ourselves? And we would do that by eating enough, we would do that by getting enough sleep, by resting when we need, by hydrating. So I totally hear you. I think there there is a space where it feels like maybe body image is like this big, you know, kind of barrier when it comes to nutrition. But I actually try to like connect them. And I also think too, something that always comes to mind for me when it comes to body image is like body image is something internal, not external. And I think we are, we are sort of it's it's kind of displayed to us in the world as like it's this external thing. And so many people, you know, and so many clients learn unfortunately like that the hard way of like, well, I've changed my body externally and I'm not actually feeling better. And so I think like pointing that piece out and that discrepancy is really important too, of like, hey, this is more of an internal thing. So I totally get the pressures and the like the drive and the desires that you feel here. Yeah, but how has approached body how has approaching body image in that way served you in the past? And people will say it has not served me. So I think that then connects back to like the education and the body respect too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And I love that you said too that once people like get a certain body, like that sick body, I'll call it, recognizing that nothing has changed, right? Like what you're trying to achieve emotionally doesn't actually, or like what you're trying to gain externally might not actually be there. And I think it's so important to have those conversations as providers, just so we are teaching our clients that the body isn't the problem. Because if it was, when we are quote unquote achieving the specific body that's going to make our life right, then our life would be right. And we as providers continue to have the same conversations with clients regardless of the size that their body is. So if so facto, there is, excuse me, there is no magic pill of, you know, a certain body is going to make all our problems go away because they clearly don't.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. And I also think, too, there's a piece of this where sometimes people don't know or recognize that they can talk about body image in nutrition sessions. I think it's one of those topics that, yes, obviously, of course, it's super helpful in therapy and it can be helpful in nutrition too, because there's such a relatability component. Like we live in such a body-focused society, unfortunately, that, you know, as not just providers, but as people, like we relate when it comes to body image and that we approach it from different lenses. Yeah. Because it comes up, you know, in different ways. Like we mentioned already, there's certain aspects of body image that I would focus on as a dietitian, like bringing in an education piece where there's obviously certain aspects that you as the therapist focus on, you know, emotionally. And still there is that like relatability and safe space to both places.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And that's why I wanted to ask you this question because people don't recognize that they can talk to you about this. But one of the courses in the dietary like program is nutrition counseling. Like it's literally in the name. And so I really wanted to just bring that up to emphasize all of the roles that you have because this is a conversation you can have with the dietitian. It doesn't just have to be therapy, especially when the dietitian is going to talk to you about body image and how to, like I phrased it before, eat through it. That's something I can't do, right? And that's why I feel like your job is harder and like your job is so much like your job is so important because uh, yes, I'm helping you focus and I'm helping you work through and identify and be comfortable with the feelings, but you are putting both of them together. And I just feel like it's so important to have that role and for people to understand just how crucial you are. And I will die on that hill.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. Thank you. And I think too, you know, I know we we've talked about this before and we we talk about this a lot, but that, you know, especially like my role as the dietitians, like to challenge somebody's eating disorder. And if their eating disorder likes me or is like pleased with how the session went, then I have not done my job effectively. So like there is also that space too where I am supposed to challenge and push and frustrate the heck out of that eating disorder. And you know, in addition, as we're thinking about this topic with nutrition, I think so much about nutrition relates to how a body functions. And there's also this piece of like, you know, focusing on the functions over the aesthetic, right? Appreciating and respecting the the functioning of a body, even when we have that body negativity or or that neutrality.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And again, right, part of the reason that your job is so important, like that happens with so many different diagnoses, right? Like body discomforts and negative body image or having some form of a wonky relationship can happen with anybody, whether it's diabetes, gastroparesis, or eating disorders like we work with, right? Like all of these different medical and mental diagnoses pose some form of a wedge in your relationship with your body, but also your relationship with food is so crucial to that as well. And you being able to work with people and me being able to work with everybody to be able to find a way for the worlds to collide is always going to be, you know, a huge part of what we do.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And I also want to hold space for and acknowledge that when we're talking about body functioning and accessibility, that there are also, you know, there can be functioning challenges and accessibility difficulties that people go through. And we actually have a whole episode coming out about that soon. We have somebody we're really excited to get to speak more to because that is like, you know, the niche that she specifically works in in the like yoga and fitness space. So more to come on that. And to kind of keep up with our topic here, but going into a little bit more of the self-love piece. So what are some of the ways that you feel like diet culture shows up when it comes to self-love? And how can we challenge those messages without that pressure to feel good about our bodies all the time?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I think part of the way to like starting with the last question, so you might have to remind me about your first one. But I think the, you know, a way for you to not feel pressure about loving your body all the time is having some form of a conversation with yourself that you will not love your body all the time and it's okay. Kind of like I was saying in the beginning, right? Because even just thinking about like a woman on her period, hate it. I hate the feeling, I hate everything that is happening, not just like literally, but also just like I feel bloated, I feel tired, I feel cranky. You can ask my husband. I am a crankster. Like, I just don't feel my best. Like everything goes down to a negative 12 of productibility when I'm on my period. And with that, I'm not going to love my body, right? But I do still like it. I do respect it. It's just a very different viewpoint. It's just a very different physical feeling, which is going to cause the emotional and the mental feelings to also take a shift. However, I know that just because my body feels different, because feelings are not facts, and just because I'm having a different viewpoint of my body does not mean that I hate it. Does not mean that I disrespect it. It's just a difference, right? You might be really mad at your friend, you might be very mad at a significant other or whomever. That doesn't mean you all of a sudden stop loving the person. It doesn't mean you all of a sudden stop hating them because of one or you start hating them because of one moment. You might just love them, but just maybe not like them in the moment or whatever have you, right? And it's the same thing with our body. It's just a shift. So I would say that one way to allow that shift to happen and not have it turn your world upside down is to allow you. Yourself to be okay with the change. Because you can't control it. So if you can have that mantra of my worth is the same, I am the same, or even just saying it's a it's a body day. I am okay and it's just a body day, and allowing yourself to move forward, that I think is going to be the most helpful. Ways that the diet culture can be a sneaky snake. That was question number one, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, about self-love.

SPEAKER_02:

Is that you're you love yourself when you aspire, not aspired, that's not the word I want to use. Ways that I feel like diet culture, diet culture can sneak in is when you feel a certain type of way in your body and you're like, oh my god, I've made it. Right? Like you almost have this once again, this dialogue in your head of this form of excitement or joy or acceptance or this space of almost being like, like I've made it here. And I think at that point you have to ask yourself, what have you made? What are you, what are we accepting and what are we so excited about? Because if you're saying, oh my God, I've made it, you've made it to one. You've made it to like diet culture, and you think, oh my God, like I feel skinny. So therefore, all of a sudden I fit better into diet culture, or I'm sorry, yeah, I fit better into diet culture, so I fit better into the world because of that. Like that's something we then have to take back a little bit. So I would definitely say, like, that's probably one way. I feel like a way to check that for yourself is just to ask, what is my intention here? Right. So I'm going to give a personal example. And it might sound icky, but if we know me, we know it ain't. But I'm going to throw it out there. So, as our listeners and as everybody knows, I'm a five-month postpartum mommy. And almost six months, which is effing bizarro. I can't believe I was six months old. And I remember, I, and I will also be very transparent. I remember texting you about it. And I remember being like, oh my god, I fit into my pre-partum pants. And when certain individuals talk about their pre-partum pants, it's because they went to the gym. It's because they were trying to bounce back, they were trying to become a certain size again, they were fixated on their bodies. How often have I talked about my body, Maggie? Postpartum.

SPEAKER_00:

Probably besides that time that you texted me about the pants, I think that's it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. I don't give an F. I care about how I feel in the sense of like, am I moving? Because your body goes through a lot after having a baby. So do I want to be able to make sure that my bones, because you lose a lot of bone density, you lose a lot of calcium, you lose a lot when you are pregnant and when you are postpartum. So I want to make sure that I have strength in my body, right? That is not me fixating or me caring about what size I am. I think I've gone to the gym or done some form of physical activity outside of walking my dog five times in these five and a half, six months. So clearly, I don't care that I'm not trying to achieve something, right? And somehow I fit into my pre-partum pants. It was just the fact that I was excited to put a pair of pants back on and to feel comfortable again. It was the sole fact that I was able to look in my closet and think to myself, oh, what can I wear today? And not have to double, triple, quadruple, think about what am I going to wear today? It was just exciting to know that my favorite pair of pants can fit me again. Did I have the thought process of, oh, bounce back? No. Did I have the thought process of, you know, oh my God, I lost all my baby weight? I will say yes, but I was not thinking, oh my God, I lost my baby weight. I was like, oh my God, I lost my baby weight. Because again, and I hope the sounding of that difference is what comes across to clients, right? Because to me it was shock. It was not, I don't know what word to put into that sound, but that is what I'm thinking. What are you gonna say? Say it again. A link. Oh, yes. No, right? Like it's just like I was exciting to be able to put clothes on, and I was excited to be able to like go through my closet again in a different way than I did when I was pregnant, in a different way than when I was, you know, at one, two, three, four months postpartum, or whenever that conversation, that text message happened. But it's that is a space that our eating disorder or our negative body image, even if you don't have an eating disorder, but that's where diet culture can really like show its face because it could try and take a moment of like, wow, that happened, and make it into wow, do you see that? Yeah, you did that. Like you were able to bounce back. Now you're worthy. Like you have a body that people can talk about because you just had a baby and now you look like this and now you look like that. And do those things happen to me? Yes. People make comments about how quickly I lost weight often, regardless if they know my boundaries or they know my stance on bodies. I can't control other people. Live and let live, right? Thank you, Mel Robbins. Let them. I say thank you, and I keep it moving. But I'm not, and I think that's another way that diet culture can come in. If someone makes a comment and you're like, oh, so you see me. No, they do, but not in the way that you want to be seen. That's the way the eating disorder wants to be seen. That's the way your negative body image wants you to be seen because there's validation in that, which I get. And that type of validation can then make you feel as though you are worthless if you don't receive it. And that's the slippery diet-cultured slope. I just said a lot there, but those are my thoughts.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, thank you for sharing all that. And I feel like too, when when we did have that conversation, you know, and we talked about how can we talk about this and how can we, you know, like include this into conversations on the podcast too. I mean, I feel like what stood out to me the most from it was the like fashion component is what you were excited about. It was not about your body, it was about like I'm excited that there are clothes that, and we know that you love to express yourself, right? With your clothes. So it was and your bow and your hair, your hair bow and makeup, right? Like these are things about you and your personality. And I also think that's an important piece with body image, and it's conversation that I've definitely had over the years with clients too, about like, you know, what is your fashion sense like? What is your fashion style like? How can you use clothing as a way to express yourself rather than a way to like display yourself? And I think again, like you said, there's these subtle differences that come in here. I also think, too, to maybe something that could be helpful is, you know, you mentioned like people making comments, and you mentioned one of the ways that you approach it is just like thank you, and like on to the next, right? Not, you know, lingering on it and also not like getting on the soapbox at that time, too, because you know that we we both love to do that when we are out in our real lives and people like to talk about food and body image. We do like to express some of that, but why does this feel like a topic for you where you're making that separation of like I just can't get into it right now?

SPEAKER_02:

I feel like there's a few things. I think, and I and I'll be very raw. I want to be a person where people understand my values, and I don't want to be the person where my values are aggressively constantly discussed, that I then become not fun to be around anymore. You know what I mean? Like I think it's a few things. I think one, outside of what I just said, I think one, I can't control other people, and everybody is just like I say to clients, uh you're allowed your own opinion, you're allowed body autonomy. I can't control that, I can't change that. You are who you are, it is what it is, right? So that's number one. People outside of my job, it's the same thing. Everybody's human. So I think, you know, I can voice my opinions and I can say how I feel. People are going to say whatever it is that they want to say to me. I'm not going to be in a, I'm not always going to be in a place where I feel like I need to correct people. Because also I know for certain people around me, I know it's with good intention. Like I know from the bottom of my heart it is with good intention. I'm not going to not slander, but I'm not going to say to someone, please stop talking about it, when I know their positive intent, that's where they're coming from. I'm, I can just say thank you. I'm in a place where it's not going to affect me, right? And if someone's also telling me I look good, spoiler alert, I am human. So if you come up to me and you're like, oh my God, you look amazing, it's gonna make me feel good, right? And that does not define my worth. And I'm in a place where I can hear that and not then think, oh my God, so I've made it. I I whether I lost the weight or not after a baby, it's fine. Other people saying something to me, okay, thank you. I know how to say thank you. It's um, it's they believe it's something positive. Okay, sounds nice. Thank you. It's not something where we're going into how'd you do, what'd you do? We're not having that conversation. We are not going there. So I think for me, it's really just I know I can take it and I'm okay. And like I, my first point too, I don't want it to always be like, oh, we're talking about bodies or oh, we're talking about food. Here goes Jess. Don't set Jess off. Like, I also don't want to be that person that can't be a participant in a conversation where everybody is allowed their own opinions. You know what I mean? Like, I want people to feel like they can be honest around me. And if all I'm hearing is, oh, hold on, let's not do this. Jess is gonna pop off. I don't feel like I'm creating a space for the people in my personal life for them to feel like they can be vulnerable or they can share their opinion. And I also don't want to stifle anybody because I can be annoying. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I think it's also like it's kind of like a work-life boundary, honestly. As you were describing it, like that's sometimes what it feels like for me, where, you know, people, of course, are gonna want to talk to me about food and want to talk to me about nutrition. And there's there's times where, you know, it feels appropriate to jump in, uh, you know, and this is obviously like outside of work in in real life. And and there are times where it's like, I just can't right now, you know, like we also have to turn it off sometimes too, just as in any field in any job, like people need to turn it off all the time, you know, at some points, because otherwise, like you just burn yourself out and it feels like you never you never stop. So I get that. I feel like it's a boundary for sure. I am curious to ask you then when it comes to pregnancy and postpartum, how do you think having a neutral mindset about body image can best support somebody throughout those body changes?

SPEAKER_02:

You need it, you need it, you need it, you need it, you need it, you need it. And this is coming from someone who once again loves her body. I am a curvaceous lady. And when you are going through pregnancy, you are literally thinking in your head, like, what the F is happening? And it's not even just because of, for me, I will say for me, it wasn't even just because my body was getting bigger in my air quotes, even though that was legitimately what was happening, but like it was also you feel and you experience so much in your body. Like there are these things called round ligament pains where it literally feels like someone's taking your skin and they're ripping it apart because your body, I know. So I'm everybody I'm I wanted to get pregnant again two weeks after I had Christopher. So, like, I I hope I'm talking about this in such a positive way. Pregnancy is beautiful, anyways. So, like, what are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I'm just like in horror at what you just shared, but please continue.

SPEAKER_02:

I know that's why I'm like, how do I say this without like traumatizing or like making it seem like this is horrible when I promise you it's not? My experience, it was not. But so you're feeling these round ligament pains, and your body is getting stretched. Your body is changing, right? Your organs are shifting, your stomach is growing, like everything is happening in your body that you have never felt before. So that within itself, you have to have trust in your body. So having body neutrality outside of an aesthetic piece is so crucial because you literally have no control over what is happening. Again, I will be very raw. During my pregnancy at 28 weeks, my OB thought I was going into preterm labor and I had to be rushed to the hospital by my husband because I have four fibroids on my uterus. And how fibroids work is just the little signs that I understand is that blood flow keeps them alive and the lack of blood flow, quote unquote, makes them die. When they are dying, quote unquote, you are in excruciating pain to the point where, like, I thought I was having contractions, the pain was ebbing and flowing, and you I would be in tears for hours on end because it was nonstop pain. If I didn't trust my body or have body neutrality in that moment, I would have gone into a full panic attack. So it's not even that you that it's so crucial for you to have body neutrality because of that of aesthetics, but it's also important because again, you're growing a human in there. Maybe two, maybe three, maybe eight. Like you don't know what is happening, and you really just have to you have to mentally be okay. Emotionally, you won't be. Mentally, you have to be okay. And even for aesthetics, right? Like you could put on any cocoa butter belly rubbing lotion, or you can, you know, do whatever you want to like, you know, make yourself feel great. I got that dark line that goes from your belly button down. There's nothing I could have done about that. Some women get stretch marks, nothing you can do about that, even though there are ads all the time. I don't know if you've ever seen them, but there are ads all the time saying if you get this oil, if you get this lotion, no stretch marks, you just created a human. What are we worried about? You created life. I could start crying. We're not gonna do that for a part two on this episode right now. But it's just like you can't control what happens to your body during, you can't control what happens to your body after. Like I said, I've done nothing. My body did what it did with all of the baby weight. There are women who have the intention of losing their baby weight and they don't. Everybody's body is so different that if you are so fixated on the aesthetic of what it is, you will not. Now I'm gonna cry. If you focus on the aesthetic, you lose everything of what joy it is to be pregnant. And it's just such an amazing experience. Like I can't, I can't, like I said, I literally looked him at two weeks after Christopher and I was and I said to him, like, I'm ready for number two. And he was like, You need to relax, like, we don't know how to live with one. But like, it's just such a beautiful thing that like even postpartum, you're trying to figure out how to be a mom. You're trying to figure out how to be a wife and a mother. And to think that there are women who are so focused on what their body looks like, you lose the joy in the little moments with your kid, and that's just so sad to me. It's so sad because there's just so much like I cry shocker just holding Christopher because he's so effing cute. But if I was so focused on my body, would I be holding him? Would I be loving on him? Would I be able to experience all the little joys? Or would I be so focused on what my body looks like? And I have to go to the gym and I have to do the what kind of life is that? Your kid's not going to care about your body. Your kid's going to care about what kind of parent you are and how emotionally available you are. So who gives a heck?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, thank you. Thank you for sharing all of that. And and to can confirm, so I honestly haven't even said this to you and I'm not trying to make you cry again, but you know, obviously you go, don't look at me with that face. I'm like, what are you gonna say? No, no, it's nice, it's nice, but uh you know, you and I spend uh so much time together, like pretty much every single day. We're on video calls and things like that, and Christopher is obviously, you know, there throughout as well. He's like our our little podcast, like third member. And the way that your face lights up when you like steal little glances at him, okay. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to do it, I swear. But like as you were talking about all of that and just like focusing on him and you know, and like this new stage in your life, and just like I see it in your face when you look at him, and like you obviously, it's like part of body image where like we can't see ourselves through anybody else's eyes. Like the way that your face and your eyes like light up when you look at him, like that's what to focus on, right? And there's something I saw on Instagram like years ago where it was like your kids don't care what you look like in a bathing suit, they just like want you in the pool or at the beach with them. Like, they don't care, they don't see it. Like, you are the only one that's focusing on these things, and like can we actually focus on the bigger picture and like what's important?

SPEAKER_02:

100%. Your kid's gonna remember a hundred percent that mom didn't play with me in the pool. Your kid's not gonna remember what you looked like in a bikini or in a one piece or in a tankini or in a snowsuit, they're not right, and that's what I just wish that women could hold on to put me in the corner.

SPEAKER_00:

No, seriously, thank you because you you were being you know incredibly vulnerable and sharing what your experience was like, and you're going to help so many people by sharing that. So thank you for everything that you said today.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my God, of course. And again, like I just want to validate, like, because I feel like this was also part of the conversation you and I had is are you allowed to feel excited about certain things? Right. And so, and maybe we talked about this already, and I'm just like a broken record, but I do just want to emphasize, right? Like, if you do feel excited, you can put a pair of pants on again. You're allowed to. What we're just emphasizing is the importance that those pair of pants don't equate or decor they don't equate your worth. It's not an increase or a decrease in who you are as a person, it's just a pair of pants. You can be excited to wear your favorite outfit again. Like those things are allowed, right? Or you feeling like, oh my God, I wasn't sure how I was going to feel on the beach postpartum, and I actually feel great postpartum because I feel comfortable in my body. You're allowed to feel those things. We also just want you to remember that whether you feel great in one form of an outfit, whether you feel great in a new size pants because you're not back to where you used to be, or you're in like it doesn't matter the size. It doesn't matter the shape. All that matters is that you are feeling good in your skin and whatever that looks like is okay. We just don't, we just want to encourage that it does not make or break you. It doesn't make or break me as a mom where what sam size pants I wear. So that was just my last, my last piece. Cause I know sometimes it is hard where people are like, am I allowed to feel good? Like, is it weird that I do? Like, I don't want to be icky, but it's like, you know your intention. You know where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_00:

And you know your body better than anybody else. Clock it, as the kids would say. I don't even know what that means, but I'll take it.

SPEAKER_02:

Every time I hear, like, when someone says something good, I'm like, with my two fingers, I'm like, yes, clock it. I don't even know if I'm using it right to be honest with you, but I it it sounds good. But you like it, and that's okay. Thank you so much. I do love this finger movement with the pointer finger and the thumb coming together like you're clapping. It's one of my faves. I do it in session all the time. And then the kids laugh at me and I'm like, listen, I'm trying to be hip. I've become that old person. I'm like, am I cool?

SPEAKER_00:

I feel that. It's fine. It's fine. Well, we hope that this episode was helpful for you in learning more about body neutrality, self-love. We are happy to talk more about these topics as well. Like we mentioned, we do have some upcoming episodes where we're going to be talking about some other body image topics too. And as always, please send us your feedback, let us know your questions, and we will catch you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks everyone for listening to me cry. I appreciate it. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_02:

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a rating, and comment and share with anyone else you may feel will benefit.