ANTM: How A “Reality Check” Missed The Reality Of Harm

A glossy show sold us aspiration; the documentary showed us the bill. We revisit America’s Next Top Model with clear eyes and full context, unpacking how a franchise turned vulnerability into spectacle and then tried to hide behind “it was the times.” As two providers who grew up watching, we connect the dots between what we saw as kids—thinness worship, racial caricatures, manufactured humiliation—and what our clients navigate now: diet culture, body surveillance, and the pressure to perform pain for attention.

Across our conversation, we look at accountability that never quite lands. Why does “reality check” feel like PR instead of repair? We name the moments that still sit in the gut: the shoots that romanticized violence and eating disorders, the public berating of contestants’ bodies, and the insistence that suffering equals good television. Then we move beyond outrage to action, outlining what true accountability would look like in fashion and reality TV: trauma-informed production, on-set mental health and nutrition care, bans on dehumanizing creative concepts, transparent reporting channels, and compensation for broken promises.

We also talk about the long tail of early-2000s media on a generation’s self-worth. Even listeners in smaller bodies internalized “never enough” lessons, while many of us learned to comment on bodies before character. With social media replaying the same patterns at scale, we offer practical media literacy for families: how to set viewing boundaries, diversify your feed, spot harm in “aspirational” content, and protect kids from body surveillance disguised as empowerment.

If you’ve ever felt unsettled by the way beauty is packaged, this conversation gives language, validation, and next steps. Listen to reflect, to unlearn, and to choose better stories going forward. If our take resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who watched ANTM, and leave a review with the one moment you think demands real accountability next.

Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.

Resource links:

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/

How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand

Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)

Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)

If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

Transcript

Welcome And Trigger Warnings

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

Sponsor And Resources

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

Why The Documentary Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com because healing happens here. Hi, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast. Today we are going to be doing a deep dive into the recent America's Next Top Model documentary that just came out. It was called Reality Check Inside America's Next Top Model. Trigger warning: we are identifying the following triggers that will be discussed but are not limited to eating disorders, body image, race, trauma, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I'm so ginger and so excited for today's conversation. My leg, as you were talking, just like keeps bouncing. Did you say you're anxious and excited? I'm antsy, but all of the above, yes.

Accountability Or Excuses

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Do you want to start there? What you're feeling a lot. What makes you feel so much right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Well, it just makes me laugh because the title is reality check, but no one got it. I don't want to say no one. It's really just Tara, in my professional opinion. She had no reality check. She is still a conniving piece of work that doesn't, she took no accountability. And I feel like if we're having a reality check, you are checked, clock it, as the kids would say these days. And then you would say, Okay, I did wrong. And I feel like whenever people said to Tyra in her like one-on-one little interviews, like they would be like, Oh, like the Shandy thing was that hard for you? And then you could just see her face change, and she was like, Oh yeah, that was tough. Like, I just I never felt anything was genuine from her. And I didn't feel like she had the reality check, whereas like Nigel, like someone protect that man. Like, I just loved him so much. And maybe I like missed something. Please give me a reality check. But I remember him being like, No, you you have to take accountability. Or even Jay, he was like, Yeah, there were some like some photo shoots that were like really inappropriate that we shouldn't have done. Like they said the things that Tyra should have said and she didn't, and I was angry. So I got so many feelings.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, no, I I totally agree with like the lack of accountability. I actually thought that everybody was hiding behind the times, like, quote unquote, a little bit. Even Jay, even Nigel, definitely Ken, definitely Tyra. But I felt like there was more accountability when it came to Nigel and Jay. Yes. But I still also felt there was a lot of like, well, it was the early 2000s, and that's just what you did. And again, I totally agree with you. Like the words reality check is so interesting. I don't know too. I wanted to look this up, but I I forgot to. Like, what was the intent and like who initiated like doing this whole documentary? Because I felt like, and this is just my opinion, I don't know this for sure, but I felt like somebody on Tyra's team probably initiated this as the way to be like, hey, people are rewatching the show, it's not going so well. Like, let's get back into you know everybody's good graces. Yeah. And that could not have been the furthest thing from what happened. Because I mean, like you said, I mean, no accountability. There was even a line she used at the end where she said, like, you need somebody else to call you out on your stuff. And I was just like, what about you? Like, where's the mirror? Like, why are you not holding yourself accountable? It was gut-wrenching to watch this.

Harmful Shoots And Dehumanizing Moments

SPEAKER_01 4:41

And that's what bothered me is that like she kept using this language of like, I'm so glad. I know I don't usually curse, but because it's quoting Tyra, like I'm going to. But she was like, you know, someone called me out on my shit, and I'm so glad, like, that's what you have to do. But it's like people were calling you out, but you weren't actually doing anything with it. You weren't like, yeah, I was really messed. Like, she there, I just felt like there was no apology. And even if she did say the words like I'm sorry, there was nothing genuine. Like, one, I don't remember her ever saying that, but I also could have blacked it out because I was just so angry at her. And two, like, I don't, I didn't feel like there was anything genuine there. And I agree with you, right? Like, I think there was something sparked this to happen, but no one actually was like, yeah, what we did was like so wrong. And sure, you can say, it was the times, but you can also be like, and the times were wrong. Like it wasn't like it was, it was always a but, it wasn't an and. And whenever there's a but, it makes it seem like we're just going to like push it under the rug, or like this is a good excuse for it. And it's like, no, because especially at one point, correct me if I'm wrong, at one point Tyra said, I wanted to make this because I wanted to give space. I wanted to give space for like why people could be in this industry and they didn't have to look a certain type of way. Like, she wanted more voices from people that wanted to be models, and she didn't. She just went with the time. So, even like what her goal was, you didn't pay attention. You didn't even listen to what you wanted to do. You were money hungry, you found something that people did. You were so mean, you were so nasty. Like, even when she was talking about I'm gonna go on so many tangents, so please reel me in at any point. But like, even oh gosh, what was her name? And her story broke my heart. She was later in the seasons, and she was the one that Tyra like screamed at. And she was like, I'm sorry, Tiffany. Yes. Her story also broke my heart because the way that they were trashing her body, if you're changing the times, you never would have done that. Woman to woman, you never would have done that. The one host on there that was berating women for your bodies, I want to. The amount of times I was screaming at my TV and Tyra, well, I just had a visceral reaction because she reminded me, get it together. I like we as providers might have visceral reactions because of what we're seeing clients go through. I'm not yelling at her, telling my clients they need to get their S together, that they need to, but I'm sorry.

unknown 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Like Yeah, that was brutal. I remember texting you because I watched it over the course of like two days, but had to start and stop it several times because I was like physically feeling ill from watching this. Like there were, I remember texting you on a Saturday and being like, okay, I watched the first episode, but like I need a break. Yes. Because I can't believe some of the things that they're like, not just that you're seeing, but like the yeah, like truly the lack of accountability was just like so disturbing.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

And I also couldn't tell if there was a part that like, because I don't know if you saw the end, like if you remember the ending where Tyra was like, get ready for cycle 25 or 24 or something. And in my head, I was like, Are you really thinking that you're going to do this real like check-in, or what's the name of the thing? Reality check, and this is what you're gonna put out, and people are gonna sign up because not for nothing, Danny loved Danielle. She even came on and she was like, Tyra literally said to my face on the phone, I forget what the like how they did it, but Tyra was like, I knew that you were struggling and I did nothing about it. You think you're gonna get women to come on the show knowing you don't even back them? Be please, go take a sit. You deserve no limelight. You deserve every I'm okay. It's not that serious. I'm okay. Let me take a breath. Let me use my coping skills like I said, Tyra should have used. Let me, I just get you should be 10 toes down for the girlies, and you weren't. And now you're trying to act as if you were, and I don't take, I don't. No, no, I think I just woke up my son. That's how angry I am about this. I literally am so upset because this was not it didn't do what it was trying to do. And then to know that you, those three men that you said were your heart, I fired my heart. I guess you don't care about your heart. If it was that easy to just do whatever. Now listen, I'm not in show business. I don't know, but I just and then Miss J has a stroke and you don't even reach out. I I'm jumping. I'm just upset.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, well, no, I mean it it goes to show, like they use those words money hungry, but like when people are chasing that dollar, like they have tunnel vision, they cannot truly see anything else, and like it's lonely at the top, right? Like the isolation of you know, right, hurting everybody around you, whether it's like participants in the show, whether it's right, the the other judges, like I mean, it that that to me was also such an an interesting thing to think of. And like, not just in this context, right? Because obviously we're talking about like mega celebrities here, but like look, you see this in everyday life too, right? When people are so focused on like the one thing, especially if it's money, and like how you you lose everything else around you.

Money, Power, And Isolation

SPEAKER_01 10:37

You do, and it also just like I forget what specific words are like what you specifically just said, but they took everyone's pain and tried to make it beauty, but they just took everyone's trauma and made it a joke, right? Like for that one individual whose mother passed away from a drive-by shooting, and then her photo shoot is sitting there and act like and her, you know, the photo was like her being shot. How do you take how do you know this? And I don't care what the times were, you literally thought that was going to be magical. You thought that was, or like Tiffany, like you said, you're making fun of her body, and then you make one of her photo shoots and like she's with an elephant. Why? Like the amount of I don't give an F about humanity, that's what I got out of that. That's everything I received from America's Next Top Model. You did not care about your people, you didn't care about your participants. There was literally a participant who fainted because she hadn't eaten in however long, and then she was in a very hot environment. What did you do? What like what where was the care? Where was the humanity? I saw none.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

So I'm curious too if you watched this growing up or like what what age range you were, maybe when you were watching this growing up.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Oh, yes, I watched it growing up. I will say that I wasn't like a diehard for the entirety of everything, but I did, but I know that I did watch the show. I can't remember how old I was.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Do you remember what year it came out? So I just looked it up. It says that it ran for 24 seasons from May 2003 to April 2018. 2003?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

I was a little baby. May of 2003. I was in 2001, fall of 21 of 2001, I was in fifth grade. So fall of 2002, I was in sixth grade, fall of 2003 was seventh, fall of no, 2002 was seventh. So I was eighth grade, if I did that right, which is very questionable.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah, because I was yeah, yeah, yeah.

Watching As Kids And Lasting Imprints

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah. So 13, let's say. I so very influential age. And I know I was never, I was never the living in a smaller body. I've always been curvy. This girl has always had a big ol' butt, let me tell you. And I, and so seeing something like that, it I remember it being really hard to watch. I remember being, you know, having thoughts of like, huh, my body doesn't look like that. And I read the episode I remember the most. And I don't know, I really don't know why it's so like in my brain. But like Danny's tooth and like the episode about her gap, there was something about that that I remember. Like, even re-watching it, like I remember childhood me watching it, like that was an imprintable episode to me for sure. Yeah, and I don't know why, because I don't have like a gap in my teeth, so it wasn't something that was like super connecting, but I just remember that one a lot.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Yeah. When you say to like that was a very imprintable age for you, were there any specific like messages that you feel like you took away from that?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Oh, that like thin was ideal, like thin, like thin being or like smaller bodies, like that's definitely a message I took. And I remember thinking, right, just like I I think I said this already, but like I thought this was supposed to be something where like anybody could be a model and don't worry about what your body looks like, but then watching it, it there was that message wasn't there. Like there weren't short girls like me, right? Like I'm 5'2 on a good day or five three on a good day. Like I'm a shorty. And like to see that no matter what someone's body looked like, there was always critiques on it. And I just, you know, there are always comments made about my body. Well, I just like it didn't matter if it was friends, family, uh, teachers, like I my body has always been something that people have commented on. So to see that this was a TV show where women were uh berated over what their body looked like, it was tough to watch. And even toughen as an adult, right? Like I'm even thinking about, I mean, granted, I know I just had my son and I'm already thinking about baby number two, but like if I ever have a girl, like I will fight somebody. Not literally, but like I will have a lot of words if anyone ever like I even have statements about people about like talking about their bodies. And I'm like, I don't care how old Christopher is in front of my son, in front of my girls, I will protect my nieces at all costs. Like, there will be no body talks around these children. We are starting a new wave of this generation, and like it even sunk in because like, and I say it with love, but like my son is such a chunk, like he's just so I love him so much, and he's he's he's got a body to him. Like he is he is a strong kid, right? At six months old. And like I remember and my dad was like, we will not call him chunky, we are going to be body positive. And I was like, Dad, okay, love that. I know I was like, okay, because I said it as a term of endearment, right? Just like some women are just like, yeah, I'm fat, and because the word doesn't have meaning to it, right? And I just remember so my tangent, it was upsetting. I didn't like it, and it it's like stuff like that will always hit home to me. Cause especially if what like I experienced about my own body too.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Yeah, yeah. So absolutely appreciate you sharing all that.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah. Well, how old were you when it came out? Because I know you're a young one compared to me.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

And I I watched a lot of America's next top model growing up, but yeah, I was eight when it came out. So that's the part to me as I was looking back at this. I was a little eight. I was eight, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

So you were literally a baby.

Body Image Messages We Absorbed

SPEAKER_00 17:24

I mean, yeah, seven, probably seven, turning eight. So that I can't imagine I was watching it at that age, yeah, but I have very distinct memories of like being in my childhood basement watching it. Yeah. And like just thinking of like the age range that I was, I had to have been in middle school. I don't really remember watching it in high school. I had to have been in middle school. So I don't know if maybe there was reruns that I was watching, but I had such a like a an interesting reaction watching the documentary where like I was having a lot of flashbacks of seeing some of the people's faces, seeing some of the like different themes and everything, and being like, oh, like that person looks so familiar to me. But then also being like, We were on the first season and I was eight years old. So, like, how is that possible? So that was really interesting. But yeah, I I I watched a lot of it and I was definitely in middle school, but I can't imagine I was eight. So it had to have been somewhere around then. And I would say too, I feel like I, and I say this having grown up with a lot of thin privilege and being in a smaller body, I felt like I also took away a lot of body image messaging from it. And as I was reflecting back on that too, I don't know how aware I was at that age. Yeah. Or my my thought as I was thinking a lot about that this week was just like, was it so common that I didn't really pinpoint it? Because I think back to so many shows that we watched as kids, like that now people have been resurfacing, right? Whether it was like in COVID or later, or there's a lot of shows that have been doing like, you know, kind of reunions and stuff like that. Like, my thought was almost like, was there just so much body messaging that it almost didn't even really register to me to pinpoint it? Because my the main thing I took away from Erica's Next Top Model, which I again recognize I have been privileged saying this and it and maybe it sounds silly to people. I remember thinking, oh, I'm not tall enough to be a model. And I was a very tall person, and I was like a fairly tall woman. Yeah. I distinctly remember the petite, like quote unquote season and being like, wow, like I really thought that maybe I could have been a model in the future, and like clearly I can't because I'm not tall enough, and like nothing I can do about that. Like, this is this is what it is. Like, yeah, this is how tall I'm going to be. But I really remember that from America's Next Top Model as like a takeaway when I was younger, yeah, which makes me think that the thinness messaging was just so so common. Yes, that that just felt like it was everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

It's actually crazy that, and this is how I I I like know that you never know what somebody is going through. And the reason I say that is because, or like what somebody's like body image or thoughts or things like that really what they believed, because just like you identified, you have been privileged, but then you didn't think you were tall enough. And that could have been like an insecurity for you, right? Of like maybe always being the tallest or like wanting to be a model and thinking you are okay, but then realizing like there are so many messages about bodies, and so many messages about what it is, you know, either to in my air quotes be a woman or to be good enough or whatever it is, and we never really know how someone is viewing or feeling that way. So I feel, you know, on so many different levels, those body image messages were just I agree with you, I think they were everywhere, which is just so sad and damaging.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yes, and like you said, right at those ages, and again, I can't remember exactly how old I was, but like I couldn't have been that far from eight watching this, you know. I mean, if I was in middle school, like wasn't that far away.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

And I even remember to kind of loop back to the accountability stuff, again, like watching this documentary was super interesting because I felt like I just kept having like flashbacks to even some of the like sets, like I distinctly remembered them once I saw them again. Yes. And I remember being a child, literally a child, and being super alarmed and like disturbed by like. The racism in the photo shoots or the one with the dead animals, the one with the the b the model with bulimia in the bathroom. Like, I when I saw that resurface, I like truly had a visceral reaction to it because I was like, I can literally picture myself as a child sitting on the carpet in the basement of my childhood home, like in front of the TV. And I remember watching that. Yeah. And I remember being disturbed by it then. And then again to see so many of these adults who also were adults then and are adults now, not taking accountability and just being like, well, it was just the times. It's like, this has never been okay. This is never okay to be hitting on these themes. And that just really, really frustrated me too, thinking about like, oh, I was a child and had like more awareness than these adults and like more accountability than these adults have, which again brought me to the cycle of like, who thought making this documentary was like helping their image because it's not no.

Racism, Cultural Appropriation, And Consent

SPEAKER_01 23:07

And I remember that like it's so funny you say that because I and I know I just had the same thing about the episode with Danny and like her being so adamant about like I like my gap. Because like, even more so, you have a strong woman who's saying, I have something that's not quote unquote ideal beauty and I feel strong and I feel beautiful, and you literally told her no. Like, how, how, first and foremost, and then when they're the I the the cultural appropriation one blew my mind. And I agree, like when they were like, Oh, you're white, here, be an African-American woman, you be an Asian woman. I was like, I how was that okay? Like on so many different levels. What made me, what made anybody think that was that that was okay? And I don't even granted, like, and I just did the math because we know me and math never math together. I was 12 in 2008. So at what point all or 2003, so at what point all this came out, right? But like, how did anybody think that was fine? Because I'm pretty sure that was never okay based on the times. So, how is that approved? Really would love to know. But it is just so like, even thinking about the Shandy episode, which broke my heart to watch. And I don't remember the episode of like all of that happening, but the conversation that Tara had, let me tell you, that girl had audacity. I keep calling say Tara. Tyra that Tyra had. Yeah, she had the audacity to be like, yeah, you know, I've had men cheat on me before. Why, why, why? First of all, are you having that conversation on national TV? Second of all, she are we just going to completely negate the fact that there was sexual assault in that entire episode, that there was a woman who had like consent wasn't a thing in the early 2000s. I'm confused because there was clearly an issue with that, and no one wanted to talk about it. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah. Yeah, it made me think a lot too, especially when we work with younger clients. And I think about like, I always think like, oh, thank gosh, I didn't have social media when I was 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, whatever, you know, whatever, right? I always think about that. And then watching this, I was like, oh my gosh, I was like 10, let's say, you know, again, I don't remember exactly how old I was, but like, I was like 10 watching this stuff, and like we are just like, history is just like repeating itself here. It's presenting as social media. For us, it presented as shows like this, but like it's the same negative impact, like getting played over and over again for entertainment, for money, like for views, like whatever it is. Yeah, and truly, since watching this, since watching that documentary, and this is a dramatic statement because I watched it literally like a week and a half ago, but I haven't watched any reality TV since, even though there are reality TV shows out right now that I normally would have been watching, because I've been having this thought about like, okay, like these other shows, right? Like, we're clearly seeing now, okay, there were these, you know, these problems that happened with it. And I'm like, okay, is there gonna be a documentary in 20 years like talking about like all of the horrors of like the shows that I'm currently watching now? Yeah and like more of this tone of like, oh, these are you know, these are gonna come out as harmful. And now I'm like, they're probably harmful right now. And is that even something that I then want to like view for entertainment?

SPEAKER_01 26:51

I know it's like people's pain and suffering has become the entertainment, and that's you know, when you can even I mean, maybe I'm going overboard, but like I know like I love Law and Order SVU. Is that reality TV? No, but like those are also somewhat based on like true stories. So like could you even bring it to that point of like, oh, so like you enjoy that, and that could be like identifying someone's pain, yes. But like I also think there's there's gives and takes, and there's like positive and negatives to thing. And I just think when you're having these women be so vulnerable to say, like, I want like I have a goal and I want to achieve it, but then they're put down in every single moment possible. Like and listen, to me, that then is a system issue, right? For people, because I can see people being like, well, they chose to go on the show, they knew what they could potentially be getting themselves into, they understood the assignment, what it takes to be a model, and like sure, however, to me, that's not a system problem. That is then that's not okay, go ahead and throw yourself to the woods. No, like the entire industry of modeling needs to have a wake-up call because that's not okay for women to have to go through that to then feel like they are deserving of something. Because yes, they're putting their body on display, but that's not putting their body on display for people to then say, like, you're a POS. Like, no, no. That's then being able to say, like, okay, this is your body, like it's beautiful, let's make magic out of it. Like, I don't think it should ever be like the fault of the person who just wants to live a dream. I don't know. I just feel like that it just I I just have no words for like some of the things that came up in the pieces that were shown.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I just it was really hard to watch, but also you know, glad that we're having this conversation and having some of these reflections and everything too, because I think it's you know, this is out there, and obviously, like since watching it, I've seen a ton of stuff on social media about it too.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

So, you know, well oh sorry, no, I was gonna say, just to your point, if this came out to be like, we're gonna write a wrong, we have a reality check, people hate it. Like, no one's happy with the reality check that you're coming to. So uh like to your point, whoever thought this was gonna be a great idea, yeah, you guys got publicity. Thumbs up, buttercup. But if you thought you were gonna get great promos, and if you thought you were gonna get people backing you to be like, you took accountability, great job, honey. You uh no, sure, you might have used language of like, yeah, that was really wrong, and like looking back on it, I don't know why I didn't think it was bad, I don't know why I didn't say anything. Great, and people still think that what you did was so incredibly wrong, and you didn't actually write or wrong at all. So, like what I would love to know the intention of all of this, that's for sure.

Reality TV, Social Media, And Harm

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Yeah, yeah, totally agree because I can't imagine anybody watching that documentary feeling inspired to go back and watch past seasons of America's Next Top Model. So if that was the intent behind it, that is laughable.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

That's what I'm saying. Like, what did you think you were gonna get out of this? Yeah, start another cycle? No, no, sit your cycles down. Thank you so much. You could cycle your way on out. Like, I I don't know. Like, I don't, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

I've also seen some stuff online too, just like that the people who won the show were promised, you know, okay, you're gonna have a cover girl contract, and you're, you know, and um saw one person it was like and a record label deal and like all of these things that like never then wound up happening too. And so yeah, I mean, there's there's obviously so much there as well of just like I mean, you you said the trauma earlier, right? Of people coming into the show with past trauma. And I'm just thinking too, like the amount of traumas caused by this show during after. I mean, that part is just like heartbreaking and gut-wrenching to think of, too. They just uh it words.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

I don't even have words, I'm just like stuttering, I'm a blubbering mess. But like they literally have like again, the shandy thing, and then she's on the reunion and you're replaying it. Like, who in your right mind, as a producer, says, hmm, this was really devastating. Let's make her watch it again. Her life was flipped upside down, she was called names in the street, her boyfriend, which I also would love to have a psychological evaluation on that man, because if you watch that, there was no she was berated. That poor girl went through terrible things, and I right and I just like you think that was TV? Uh I don't know. Yeah, it's horrible. It just it breaks my heart that that would people were like, this sounds like a good idea. And like America's X-Top model could have been great, right? Because then they did have a petite season, they did have, you know, women in curvier bodies, women, you know, they they tried. But you failed so many people that the attempts like I don't want to say they don't matter because, like, yes, I will always give credit where credit is due. And like you brought in people who technically were not in the frame of models of what the modeling industry likes to identify as a modelable, which in my air quotes, which I think is stupid, but like if you burned more than you created, what did you create? And if you also are, and if so many people are, you know, to what you just said, Maggie, if so many women are coming on and they were like, I never had a deal, like nothing ever came to fruition, like I was a struggling model as if I never won this show, then what did you actually do for these people?

unknown 33:24

Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

So what do you have to show? And what makes you feel like, ooh, I was so good at what I was doing? You literally did nothing. Deep breath.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Deep breath. Thanks. Okay, well, I'm glad we watched it. I'm glad we talked about it, even though it was so horrible and terrible, truly such a visceral experience watching it.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

And you know it's bad when Matt says something. Like Matt was even sitting there and he was like, Tyreek did not take accountability. And I was like, tell him man is for the woman, and you tell like it and Matt doesn't have a comment about. I mean, he has a lot of comments, but like if he doesn't care about something, he's not gonna pay attention and he's just gonna whatever. And he was like, he was down for the girls, and I was like, Thank you so much. We love that. Yeah, I know. Married a good one. Bless you, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Thank you, everybody who is listening, and we appreciate our listener who had this idea for us to watch the documentary and talk about it. Thank you, Mayor. And yeah, if there are other, you know, kind of like pop culture-y things that are topical that people want episodes on, no, you can always reach out and let us know, and we are happy to do some episodes too.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yes, thank you. And thanks for letting us have this platform to vent and share our thoughts on. And you're welcome for being the therapist and using coping skills in the moment to not get so heated. Love it. Trying to teach as I do. But thanks guys for tuning in, and we'll catch you on the next one. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

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