Are We Self Diagnosing Typical Human Experiences?

The internet can hand you a mental health label in 30 seconds and that speed is exactly the problem. We sit down with Kyra McFadden, LPC and founder of the Emotional Processing Project, to talk about what gets lost when TikTok therapy turns complex clinical work into bite-sized “if you do this, you have that” certainty.

We start by catching up on Kyra’s path since her last visit: earning her license, moving into doctoral work in applied psychology with a focus on equity in health systems, and publishing books and tools that center emotional awareness and honest reflection. Kyra shares why she chose self-publishing to protect her voice and how vulnerability can give other people permission to be truthful with themselves.

Then we dig into the oversaturation of mental health content on social media and the rise of self-diagnosis. We break down why screeners and five-minute quizzes aren’t the same as a real assessment, why you can have a depressed moment without having depression, and how it feels when someone finally finds “the answer” and a clinician asks them to stay open to other explanations. We also talk over-medication, why medication can be temporary relief instead of a shortcut, and how responsible care means follow-up and root-work, not just symptom cover-ups.

If you’ve ever wondered whether online mental health content is helping you or hijacking you, this conversation will ground you. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find a calmer, more human way to talk about mental health.

Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.

Resource links:

Alliance for Eating Disorders: https://www.allianceforeatingdisorders.com/ 

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/

How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand

Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)

Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)

If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

Transcript

Mission, Trigger Warning, Disclaimer

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower.

Sponsor: Hilltop Behavioral Health

SPEAKER_02 0:20

This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com because healing happens here.

Meet Kyra And Her Work

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empowered Podcast. Today we have our girls back, Tyra McFadden, LPC, a licensed professional counselor, emotional coach, author, and founder of the EP Project, a platform dedicated to helping individuals heal through emotional awareness, vulnerability, and intentional self-reflection. Love that. Specializing in trauma where people can process their experiences with honesty and compassion. Kyra is author of Heal, Feel Emote, the Emotional Clarity Journal, a guided emotional processing journal designed to help readers deepen their self-awareness and emotional literacy. She is also the author of Dear Me, I'm sorry, The Words I Never Heard, The Apologies I Never Wrote, A Reflective Collection Exploring Healing, Accountability, Grief, and Self-Compassion. Through her clinical work, writing, and community initiatives, Kyra empowers others to embrace healing as a journey of courage, clarity, and emotional freedom. Gets me emotional every time I read the title. But before we jump in, trigger warning for everybody. We are identifying the following triggers that may that will be discussed, but are not limited to eating disorders, body image, diagnoses, mental health, and trauma. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment. It is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Hi. Hello. Welcome back. Oh my god, are you kidding me? Of course. I was so excited when you said yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Look, I was excited to be asked. I can't believe it's been years. I didn't have hair then because I had just cut it out.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I'm dead. You, but like not even just the hair transformation. There's so much what's the word I'm looking for? Career-wise, that you have grown. Like I remember you were still in LAC, you were trying to figure out what to do. Like, I remember you really struggling with like, do I stay with my clients and do I stay at my job? Do I go somewhere else? Like you were you were going through it mentally, trying to figure out your next steps. And now look at you.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah. Can you fill us in? Because even I mean, the process of becoming an author, too. Just so curious to hear more about it.

SPEAKER_04 3:23

So

Licensure Journey And Doctoral Focus

SPEAKER_04 3:24

finally, just like coughed it up, took the NCE because I was like, I had enough hours for the national counselor examination, passed it. It was a long process of getting my state to uh look at my stuff. So I said get the license. In the process of that, I I went back to school, so I'm in my dissertation phase right now. Yeah, so yeah, a lot of changes. I'll be doctor next year, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Oh my god, what are you getting your doctorate in?

SPEAKER_04 3:52

I so it's it's it's in applied psychology, and it's kind of me taking a step back. Obviously, I think I'll always still have some type of counseling load, clinical load, but I want to look at systems change. And so looking at why equitable practices trump practices of equality and why it's needed in the health field, kind of talking about like how the foundation of the health field has not been one that is as inclusive. And so we need to change it and how that can transfer over into mental health. So doing that right now in dissertation phase and have three classes left, then I'll be finished. I've always written, I've kept journals and journals of things, and one day just like praying and being like, God, what do I do next? And it was like, all right, like we're just we're just gonna write it out. And so writing a series of letters to myself, just because I don't think anybody deserves or asked to be dramatized, but then there are certain ways we have to look on the flip side of like, how did I continue this cycle? Or what about my behavior influence the continuation or you know the patterns because I'm always looking at patterns, and so the book came as a result. I was very scared to publish, but that published in April, February, the Emotional Clarity Journal published. I have a couple other things that I just need to get out of the books and onto paper. But publishing Dear Me was the hardest because it was actually the book for my aunt's book club and kind of unleashing myself because somebody was like, Well, how much of this is exaggerated? And when I said none, it was just kind of like a silence. So being able to use that to say, like, I know the book is it could be a trigger. So one of the first things I write to people is like, take it as you need to, put it down when you need to. It doesn't have to go in order. I purposefully did not number the pages because I want them to read as letters, and we don't typically, you know, number letters, but also I wrote it in my like truest form of like being poetic, but being real and allowing people to work through it as they need. And then the EP project, which stands for the emotional processing project, is something again I LLC'd years ago and just never went through with. And so I want to be able to provide not only counseling but coaching for people who want just a different type of relationship, not really looking for the mental health aspect, but want to work through their emotions because one thing I believe is that the power of validation of like I don't have to agree with you, but I can validate where you're at. I often teach people emotions are valid, they're not factual, but they're also like it's it's not, it's it's it's valid, but it's not factual. How do we how do we make it too? But also just really allowing spaces for people to talk about their emotions. And okay, like I'm angry, cool. Let's let's go deeper than that because it didn't start with anger, and so yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot of changes.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

That's amazing. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Who knew from Gettysburg to now? Who knows I know.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

It's just so incredible to see like everything that you've been able to accomplish. And like, I know you're saying that you didn't follow through with things and it might have taken a while and whatever have you, but you did all of this in a very short amount of time, all at the same time. So, regardless of when you did it, you were just like, listen, full steam ahead, we're gonna do 12 things at once, and it sounds like you've done them all very well. That's wild. So, yeah, and you go on, you're going on nice vacations, you're doing all the things. Like, I see you, I do, I do, and a lot, and which is important because as clinicians, we have to talk about the very important work-life balance. So, thank God I also know you personally to know that there is balance going on. Because if I just heard all this, I'd be like, Miss Ma'am.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Yes, yes, yes. I will say being being licensed has provided more work-life balance. I will say that. And just knowing that, like, I can't if I if I don't take care of myself, I'm gonna bleed on you. And that's the last thing that I want to do. So, oh yeah, oh yeah, things are going.

unknown 8:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

So, how did you find I I know this isn't really like what we wanted to talk about today, so I'm just gonna ask a question because I'm nosy. But how did you find like the whole publisher getting a book out there? Like, what is that process like?

SPEAKER_04 8:32

Totally went through Amazon KDP just because one okay, so Amazon has like KDP, it's Kindle Direct Publishing. So you can put something on Kindle, but you can also have them do it just through Amazon. I think one of the biggest things for the for the journal is

Publishing Without Losing Your Voice

SPEAKER_04 8:50

like, I just need to get it out. I get so nervous, and I'm like, oh, so again, like I've I've had journals upon journals sitting in pages that are literally like withering. And so I'm like, I need to get it out. I used Shopify, especially for like my affirmation cards, because again, those are yellow at this point from like when I wrote them on index cards, even before the first time you we met on the podcast. Because I wrote those back in like 2022, I want to say. So there's so many things I'm like, I just need to get out. But in particular, especially for Dear Me, it was something where I did not want to tone down my voice. And I think a lot of the times we're taught to like tone down or like water it down. And I'm like, I already wrote it poetic so that it's not like super graphic, but also these are real, these are real things that people, not just me, are dealing with. So it was a lot of like editing, sending something to a friend to be like, check for spelling mistakes. Am I being redundant? What does this look like? But it was a lot of I did not want to feel like this book would be stripped of who I am, the the quirkiness that I have, the real deep like love for like feelings, wanting to be honest so other people also now have permission to be honest. And that's one thing that I always say to people is that I'll take the chance to be vulnerable out loud so you can do it in private. And so I just I did not want to risk that being stripped. And so we thank God for Amazon KDP, because I was like, I I I didn't want to, I don't write anything too graphic. Yeah, it was something I really was just like, I don't I don't want my voice to be stripped because I've I've been in that space for so long, just me not having the you know, the voice. Like I remember the first time I met Jess and I'm just standing there and she's like, You want to go in? We're going in. And it was just like, you know, because I I didn't have that voice, you know. I show up with with an aura of confidence that was not there. And so for me to put my voice out there, I was like, I want it to be raw, I want it to be authentic, and I want other people to see, like, you know, see themselves and be able to say, okay, like I can I have permission to move forward. And so the because I work in metaphors, right? Like I am the most English writer in a science field. Let's just be very clear, okay? But I I envisioned me almost handing this to my younger self to say, here, you now have permission to just go forth and have your voice. And I knew it would like rub some family the wrong way. Because I was like, I'm not, I I understand if it hurts, I'm not like blasting anybody because I don't think it's like that's necessary, but also being able to be honest about the things that hurt me, like being called the smart kid, because it came off of the notion of hearing someone ask about my father's daughter, and somebody pointed to me and they said, No, not the smart one, the pretty one. And being honest of like that hurt me, you know, and so I walked with the air of like smart kid and putting my accolades first because this girl inside didn't feel pretty. And so not wanting to dumb that voice down and be like, oh, well, it may not make the sales you want. That's not the intention for it. The intention is to have people be able to hand themselves, their little selves, that permission to move forward.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

So you can't make me cry. Like I've cried too many times in these episodes as of late. I need us to not. I'm just kidding. That's the whole point of all this. But that honestly was so beautiful, and I'm so proud of you of doing that because you just exude everything that you're trying to teach people, and I think that's it's very hard to find that sometimes in this field is just like the authenticity, right? Because there is that line of professionalism with clients, but I feel like this really gave you the space to show people the type of person that you are, and I love that.

Social Media And Self-Diagnosis

SPEAKER_02 13:02

So trying to now steer this into our topic for today, right? You put something out there that I that people can connect to, and we know that there is authenticity and and realness in there. So, you know, and so topic for today is like the oversaturation of mental health prevalence in social media and self-diagnosing. So, like, is there trying to figure out if like a way to go into this? But I'm just curious how you feel about people reading something, watching something, having something, and being like, that's me. And like, how do you help clients kind of see that because social media and things like that have language more accessible and have you know examples more accessible? Do you feel like it's helping people, not helping people? I'm trying.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

I don't know if this is working out, but it was a good it was a good segue. I'll give it to you. I was wondering how you were gonna tie it all in and you did it. So good job.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 14:15

The funny thing is that this was actually one, this is what I wrote about to get into my graduate school about the oversaturation of diagnoses. So not from the social media lens, but I definitely brought social media into it's such a fine line. One of the things is that I never I never disclose any diagnoses here, and um in in my book specifically, and I just kind of break take it to this broad band of just healing, right? And so, you know, I I always tell people it's hard, it's it's all it's a fine line because we live in a world where everybody wants to be original, and unfortunately, we're like walking as zombie copycats, and there's so much power in language that I think that they're you know, trying to teach people like, yeah, you can see parts of yourself in this, right? And like you can relate to the story, but this does that does not mean that you're that, and so that's that's even a fine line that I work to articulate in intakes when I tell people this diagnosis is to help you get insurance to cover your sessions, you are not your diagnoses, your diagnoses can change. But I will say that while social media has definitely made mental health more accessible in the sense of like having language about it being real, there's so much psychoeducation that has had to happen behind the closed doors for therapists. And it's it's one thing to say, like, yeah, like this is real, and also you may not exactly have this, right? Because, like, you know, like you have the quizzes. Oh, take this like five-minute quiz and see what type of like ADHD you have. I'm like, that that's not even the way it works. Or like, I think about how even it is prevalent in the doctor's office, because I did one of my papers on bipolar disorder, right? And how the oh my god, now I'm blanking on the P, is it the PhQ?

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Whatever is done at the doctor's office, like I think it's the PHQ nine, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

Yeah, pH nine and the MDQ, like we use them, and then people are like, Oh, you're showing signs of bipolar disorder, but it can work for borderline personality disorder and work for any mood disorder. Why? Because if we do the history, the MDQ was never used to identify bipolar disorder, it was used after people already had a diagnosis to signify if they had bipolar one or bipolar two. The structured clinical interview is the most salient with the most parameters to say it. And so I think that there is value in being able to say, like, I see people like me, especially when you look and it's like, oh, 21, rich, big house, Bentley, they're living a life, like they're just being an influencer, they're being a social media person, you can do it too, which people are trying to uh, you know, attain and it doesn't feel real, doesn't feel attainable. And then you have people show their vulnerability, and it's like, yeah, that's something I can see, but then it's like if it's someone who's vulnerable who's like, I have PTSD or I have anxiety disorder, and somebody's like, oh my god, that's what I have. And I'm like, not necessarily. And so it's it's it's great to see yourself within something, and it's like that line of being like, you see yourself within, but that's not who you are. And let us find out who you are. So it's it's a lot of psychoeducation behind the scenes, or you know, a lot of like when people are like, Oh, my dad is definitely gonna go through a mid-life crisis. The the number isn't a single digit for the amount of people who actually go through a mid-life crisis. I think it's like six percent. And so there's a lot of oversaturation of seeing what looks like will be prevalent in a lot of numbers, and only, you know, a very small percent of people are actually dealing with these things and trying to educate people, you're gonna have a depressed moment and not be depressed. Oh my god, well, my feelings just changed overnight. You're not bipolar, you're a human, you're just not a robot. Congratulations. I have to review your alien card because you're actually a human and you're allowed to feel, and you're allowed to have multiple feelings. So it's a lot of like validating yes and which is exhausting. Uh and it's like not that everybody wants a diagnosis, but it's almost like everybody wants a diagnosis, and we have stripped people the ability to be human and have a human experience.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

God, I just love you. I do. Because you just said so many good things because it's so true, right? Everybody wants to be original, but yet everybody wants a label. And if you want to be labeled, you're then going into a category. So then it's so contradictory of like what people are really looking for because they want to be original, but they want to feel connection. But in order to feel connection, you have to be like everybody else. And so then when there is this oversaturation of mental health or life experiences, people are just looking to have that, that they forget that they can be human, right? And I love that you just ended everything with that statement of you can have a depressed moment and not be depressed. You can have, you know, maybe an OCD tendency moment but not have OCD. You can be anxious about something and not have anxiety. And I think people are just looking for answers about why they feel that the that they forget that being human is an answer within itself. And it does need so much clarification and education on that because you don't, it doesn't need to be bigger than it is. And I think people are just so scared of being human because it's not taught to be okay. You nailed

The Emotional Fallout Of “Maybe Not”

SPEAKER_02 20:17

it, girl.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

What what's the emotional impact like when somebody coming in having self-diagnosed, right? Having maybe taken a checklist or seen some of this language on social media, really coming in thinking that they meet criteria for a diagnosis, and they actually don't meet that criteria. What have you seen that emotional impact been like?

SPEAKER_04 20:50

No, and not like no asn't I'm mad at this person. No as in, I'm so glad you're finding some language in like no. And so, but also when people feel like they finally have a handle on something that they feel like is not going right, and they kind of feel like it's being slipped from their grasp. There's like this moment of like devastation. And so I've learned to like walk it with wow, that sounds really important, and this is valid. And also, like, let me give you some other indicators because I think one that has really been a struggle to work through, which was also something I focused heavily on in undergrad and more so grad school, was the idea of autism, right? And and now autism diagnosis, now being autism spectrum diagnosis, and the amount of delts who are like, yeah, I think I'm autistic. And in one line that I go to is that if you think you're autistic, you're more than likely not. And that's only because people who truly have that diagnosis don't. Really have that concept of something is is wrong socially, right? Like they they are in their world still able to relate, but that idea that like something socially is off may not be as prevalent as you're making it, and so really working to like tell like I've learned one thing to ask people is like, tell me more, like like tell me, tell me where you're identifying yourself and that to be delicate with their feelings, and then just kind of like me asking, I'm like, all right, well, like could it be something different? Are you open to exploring like what else this could be? Do you think that maybe you're just having awkward moments? Is it awkward moments? Also, like, how much of this is like you thinking it, and not like it's in your head, but we see the world colored through the lens of our own thoughts, colored through the lens of our own anxious moments. Environmentally, social cues can change. Sometimes we have the right social cue, but we perceive it wrong because of what we've been through in our past, our social media making it seem like, oh, this is what you do in this situation without the nuances. And so sometimes there is just like this devastation of like, oh, I thought I had it. And I'm telling people, like, no, like we're exploring, but let's be open to exploring. And then for some people, it's like, oh my God, okay, because I thought I would have to like reveal to people I have this, this, and this. And I'm like, well, firstly, you never have to reveal to anybody that you have anything, you know. Like if you have a diagnosis, you don't have to share it. Like, you are not your diagnoses, you can take that label off. You are your name, and that it's beautiful. So for I've seen like a mix of like relief, some devastation, some just being confused and being like, Well, I don't know what I am then. And I'm like a human, and and that's beautiful. And you know, we can we can use that label until the wheels fall off. But I have seen like what hurts me is to see like the devastation, because again, I think we've stripped people of having the the human experience, and people like, well, I just want to be normal. I'm like, what is normal? Yeah, that that's hard to say what is what is normal. I have my kirks, I have like my awkward moments, and sometimes when I'm having them, it's usually me looking at them through how I'm thinking about how other people might be perceiving me. And I said, guess what? I don't know how other people are perceiving me. Because that's in my head and it's all up here. And so I'm thinking they're perceiving me one way, and they may not, because it's my feeling, and my feeling is very valid, it is not factual.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

100%. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

No, I was saying I hope I answered it.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, yeah, you definitely did. I have like two more questions that came up as you were talking.

Supporting Loved Ones With Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 24:48

So, okay, so the first one is so let's say, for example, for a support person, like a family member, a friend, if they feel like somebody in their life is is oversaturated, right, with this mental health prevalence and is kind of constantly self-diagnosing, how do you think they can be like supportive and validating, but also like not feed into it too? Because I feel like there's kind of a delicate balance I could see formulating there.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

I think the number one thing is like, don't immediately shut it down. Because if you immediately shut it down, even on your head, you might want to. You cut off the lines of that communication. And I think there's a way to explore it and be like, well, you know, tell me more about it. What makes you what makes you think that? And to kind of like redirect it, I tell, I tell parents all the time, put it on me. Hey, like, you know, why don't you go like talk to like a professional? Or like, why don't you ask like a therapist? You know, I think one of the things could be like, hey, let's open up the DSM V together. Let's, let's, let's look into like what this means, you know, at a greater level. And then also I think sometimes like perspective taking. I think that we can make something that we've had a challenge with in a month seem like it's been for years. Like I've always been that way. And I'm like, ooh, that's an absolutist statement. Can you like, can you give me more examples? And I think like if you help people to like explore, I think some people are able to on their own kind of come to this delicate walk of like maybe this is what's happening right now. And it it opens up the conversation, but I think it also allows you to not just be like, yeah, you're this, or like, no, you're 100% not that. Because I think sometimes people have to walk through grief. And for all the listeners, even though people associate grief with just being sadness, there's 12 steps, and one of them is acceptance. So sometimes we have to walk people through their own acceptance of like, you know, I'm grieving that maybe I feel like I don't have language for what I am or who I might be. And they have to get to that point of acceptance. But I also just think like allowing people to remember, like, well, hey, you know what? Like, I like you for who you are. Because I think that we also have to have that mindset that for as much as we will do, if someone is set on diagnosing themselves for whatever reason, that they're going to do it. And that's a hard line to balance. And so maybe just like shift the conversation if it's something that you don't want to feed into. But I think like psychoeducation in these instances is one of the best things that you can do or point out, not like count point out counterexamples. I think people, you know, think that confrontation is always nasty. It's not, it's just pointing out the opposite, but it is a fine line to walk because you want somebody to remain open and you want someone to to talk. But like if you have actual concrete examples of like, hey, like if they're like, I've always been this way, and you're like, wait a second, I've been in your life for how many years? And like point out the opposite. Sometimes the mind is just focused on seeing what it wants right now because your mind is always trying to keep you safe. And so, you know, cognition runs and it's it's reserving itself for if there's like a high stress moment and just reminding the mind of something different, right? Because the mind is a muscle, it can and will change, and you know, import something different into them. Like you can kind of now be the algorithm changer by just planting different seeds. And then, so in the same way that like we follow a pattern and what we click on now, we see everything in our algorithm on social media change into that. Your language has the opportunity to be like a subtle algorithm changer for them as well, and be okay if it doesn't happen in the first or second conversations. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah. I love that example, like the algorithm changer. That's such a good one.

Medication Access And The Root Cause

SPEAKER_00 28:43

The other question I have for you is what parallels have you seen, if any, between the oversaturation, like mental health content and self-diagnosing and over-medication? And sorry to put you on the spot there.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

Um I definitely think that it has become easier to go in and be like, hey, I have anxiety and get medication. Like, hey, I have depression and get medication. And yay to things being more accessible, caution to things being so accessible that we don't have the right help for it, right? Because if I go in and I take an anxiety screener or a PHQ 9 or like a Bex Depression inventory, it's good to feel like you have something immediate to relieve you. Because most people are going in and looking for relief, which is why some of the best moments of intakes is watching someone immediately feel better just by having someone to talk to. But I do think it's something to be cautioned because you're going, you're getting medication sometimes, and you might feel worse because you don't know how this interacts with your body. You may not, you know, they give you the pamphlet to read about the side effects. Does not mean you're reading it. If you don't have someone clinically there, then you're kind of like medicating, but not actually getting to the root of so it's like for me, it's kind of like that quick fix of like, I'm gonna go out and I see weeds in my garden and I'm gonna pluck them. This is great until like two weeks later, these weeds come back. And if you pluck them again and you see two weeks later these weeds come back, this is indication that you need to do the dirty work. Like, you need to get in the flower bed, you need to undo it, and it's gonna be dirty and it's gonna look ugly, and you might temporarily be thinking, like, oh my god, what are my neighbors thinking? But if you don't get to the roots of these plants, you're you're gonna keep having weeds come up. And so I think it's great. I know like there are like low-level ones like Boosperone and stuff like that, but also it's like if it's great to medicate you, it's great to have something to help relieve you momentarily. However, if you don't get to the root of the problem, you're literally just coloring over. And so you're looking for someone, something to give you a temporary relief. But if you've never known how to handle the problem, it doesn't help. It's like if a child is tantruming, you're like, I can't tie my shoe. Yes, there are some moments where the parent just needs to get down and tie the shoe, but that child does not learn how to tie that shoe. And so there's other moments where it's like, hey, you're crying, you're frustrated. Let me do this with you. Let me show you how to do this. And you you might fail, and that's okay. But oh my God, yay to the attempt. Yes, we're trying. Let's get to the root of this so that when something like this comes up and you have a frustrating moment, oh, I've learned to breathe. Oh, I can do this. I'm not great at it, but I can do this, I can work through it. So I think have their place, especially if someone's just like so anxious, so depressed, they can't move, like maybe having something temporarily, but to say, like, hey, part of this is you come see me in three weeks. I need to know you have a provider. I need to know that like you're meeting with someone. If y'all want to go through like signing releases of information just to like be in to ensure that you're you're like actually following up, but there needs to be some follow-up because medication is only gonna work until it doesn't, and then people are like, Oh, like I need a stronger medication. No, maybe we need to get to the root 100%.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

I agree. Because people see medication as a quick fix, they see it as well, if I don't feel then I'm fine. And I think that goes back to what you were saying in the beginning that people are so afraid to be human, and people forget that feeling is human, that they're using medication just as another numbing agent instead of allowing themselves to say, like, or to realize yes, medication can be very helpful, and some people really do need it. That doesn't mean that we then don't do the work to go with it, like the it's it is a together, it's not a separate.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

Yeah, I always look at medication of like if you had like a really, really bad break or something like that. Yeah, yeah, medication is is needed temporarily to ease this pain, but you need to go to physical therapy, you need to relearn how to work that muscle, like you need something. It's this and because I feel like the medication, and I'm not like anti-medication, I'm just not like first session, here you go. Because, you know, I think that we've been taught to be avoidant, right? Like avoid confrontation, or like I'm the overly confrontation person, I don't care what that looks like. And it's like all confrontation is not bad, like that's just the the the connotation. I mean, the connotation that goes with it. It's not all bad, but we've been taught to be afraid of our feelings. And I have to tell people, you already went through the hardest part, you've been through what actually made you feel this way, and feelings are temporary, they don't you don't feel the same way every single day. So some yeah, it's gonna be ugly, and we may not like this feeling, but the spectrum of feelings is not just good feelings. There are there are some crap feelings that don't feel great, but it's temporary, and the more that you avoid it, the more that when your brain thinks that you're about to do it, it now feels like it needs to protect you. So half the battle that we need to help people work through is actually going through it, uh, not just medicating. And if it is something where it is so bad that you do need medication to quote unquote take the edge off to get there, fine, you know, but also do the other parts of the work and don't, you know, don't be afraid to. And yeah, sometimes like I'm in therapy and I'm like, no, we're gonna we're gonna work through this because you've avoided it for like eight weeks now. There's other times I'm like, all right, it's too sensitive. Okay, we're not avoiding it, we're we're canning it for right now. Kind of tell me like what you're feeling about the anticipation of working through it, and we will ease into it, but we've taught to be very like very avoidant.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

I absolutely agree. And I love too the part. Oh no, don't do this. I had it. I hate Mombrain. Sometimes it's so so bad. There are two parts that you said. One, I just like how you said that it can be used as like a temporary relief so you can get through things, because I agree with that. Sometimes a client is too heightened in whatever it is that they're feeling, whether it's anxiety, depression, trauma, whatever have you. And they might need the medication to allow like the head to be clear to then do the work. But sometimes clients then don't feel that heightenedness that then they're like, oh, I don't need to do it. I'm fine. Look, the medicine, the medication did what needed to be done. And it's like, no, no, no. We have another part that we have to do here. And medication can be temporary. And I don't think that's something that people recognize all the time is that medication isn't like a life sentence, not like death way, but like, you know, you don't have to be on that medication journey forever. It can just get you through the moments that you need to get through. And that could be a four-year journey, and that's okay. There it there can be an expiration date, though, for medication.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

Yes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Something else you said, but I don't remember what the heck it was, and I'm gonna get it. But it's fine, I digress. It's so annoying.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

So I'm gonna I'm gonna go while you think of it as up if that's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Clinicians Online, Coaching, Credentials

SPEAKER_00 36:54

So when it comes to being clinicians online, having social media, because we do, we know that you do too. How do you think clinicians can like responsibly be on social media without maybe contributing to some of this like over-identification or over-saturation?

SPEAKER_04 37:15

I think provide the psychoeducation in it, just you know, it's okay to be like, hey, I know that this is being said. Let me add some background story. Like, you know, or I know, like I like made a funny comment under someone who is a friend. And I was like, as a therapist, you need to sit in my seat, like at this point. And so somebody reached out to me and they were like, You're a therapist, and kind of like word from it. I was like, Hey, thank you so much. Like, I can help you find people, and just also like it sounds like you're having a tough time, but you've identified several things, and I was like, just be okay saying that you're having a tough time right now. I don't think you have to give yourself a diagnosis. And so sometimes it's like happening in the inbox where people are like, be my therapist. And I'm like, Oh, I can't, right? Like, I can't, but also here are some things that are actually going on. Here's something I like recommend you read, and always tell people, like, you know, you don't have to take this five-minute quiz and think that this is it. Like, try talking to someone, but valid that you're having a tough moment. And and like be as raw and be as authentic. I think sometimes it's just even off of social media, having those real honest and authentic conversations, especially if there's something trending with, especially like my younger clients, to be like, hey, like I saw that this was going on. How do you feel about it? Especially if they're like very much like doom scrollers or people who have social media presences, and to let them know, like, hey, like, you know, what do you think about it? But I think just being able to provide that psychoeduc. Obviously, you don't have to go on a bash and scene and put somebody's video behind you and talk about like why it's terrible or something like that. But just be that opposite voice, right? Be that opposite voice, be that that person to say, like, hey, I can understand why this seems like that. And like, let me give you some more information behind like why this may not be the case. Or like, I think something that I'm personally struggling with. And no shade to anybody who does, but like the I took a 10-hour course and I'm a mental health coach. And so you're dealing with this, this, and this, this is it. And I'm like, I I have had years in school, and it's not just this simplistic, right? Again, like if somebody comes to me in an intake and their grandmother just passed and their dog passed the week before that, I'm not automatically going to go to major depressive disorder. I would expect their affect to not be okay in this moment. I mean, like, also, let me just be very honest. I'm against diagnosing in the first session because I just feel like how I've so dumb just met you. I'm stupid. But I feel like there should be a couple week period where we're able to bill insurance and like, yeah, if it's like, hey, in six weeks, hit me with with something that you think absolutely, but I just met you. So if I'm taking you for face value, which I am, in the first session, but you just had depths and you had something that was depressive, and you're like, Yeah, I've always been like this, or this happens. I'm taking you at a snapshot of a moment where you are already down. Like that's not okay. Um, I just work to be the opposite voice. Um, I do have people like, I'm a coach, we should collaborate. And I'm like, okay, but like also please be open to hearing, like, if you feel one way about something, I might just give you the background, or I might be like, uh, according to the DSM, you know, and not to be like that person. But these things have to persist over a series of months, and not just one thing, like, there's usually multiple things in multiple areas, and and being able to just kind of, you know, I guess like not be agreeable just because it has the the the label of mental health or our diagnoses.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

So appreciate you saying that. Because I'll be honest, it makes my blood boil when people call me a nutritionist. Like, I am not a nutritionist that like I could list all the differences for you. Like, I'm a registered dietitian, and it frustrates me so much when people say that.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, I could kiss you because coaching just and like you said, I don't, there's no shame, there's no ill, like I don't have like an any ill in my heart for people that are coaches. The part that gets me is when you act like you have my degree, because I have a degree, I did the schooling, I did the hours, I took time to do what it is that I do. It's very different than you taking a course and saying, I can do these things because me being able to support someone when they're suicidal is not what you do, right?

SPEAKER_04 42:08

And there's places for coaches. Say that again. And there's there's places for coaches, absolutely. It's just like we don't look at the world the same way.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

No, and I don't love when they think that we do.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

Yeah, I'm like, no, no, no, absolutely, no.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

I feel like this is a silly example, but it it makes sense in my mind. So I took a cake decorating course in the fall, and I would never call myself a pastry chef because I took a cake decorating course, and like I have my little certificate up on the fridge, right? And it's cute, and I spent time and money and everything, and I love posting what I made, then I would never post it and be like, I'm a pastry chef who made this cake. So to me, it's just like that's the difference.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

No, I think that's a great comparison because yeah, it makes me think of like other things in social media, like the whole Dr. Bryant thing. Like, have you seen Dr. Cheyenne Bryant? She like does not have a dissertation, she trademarked Dr. Bryant, though. So it's like I don't have to show my credentials, but she's like inside, she is in psychology, but it's just like, you know, like, are you doctor? Are you not? Because that's someone who's going through the dissertation phase. Please fight me if you feel like, you know, like that that whole doc, but it's like another thing of like no one's no one's taken away from the fact that like you have been a coach, no one is taken away from the fact that you have a lot of experience. You may have also just been a doctor who did not confer, but your dissertation is nowhere on ProQuest. You can't pull up anything. Argosy University was like, no, you know, she was like, Oh, my transcripts were thrown away, and I couldn't access that. You have people who are from her year like. Definitely can access everything. And this idea of like, well, I'm gonna, I don't give a F what anyone has to say. And it's like, if you are, you know, and you are in psychology, that's great. Do no harm. Think about what that does for people. And also, like, people like you outside of if you're a doctor or not. But it does raise the question of like, if you're not a doctor, you're not doing the same work that someone with doctor would do. And so, all this to put it back, there's a place for coaches, but I just don't alig myself to say that like we do the same work. We come at it from different angles. You're working with people in different spaces, and I'm not only trauma-informed, I am a prolonged exposure therapist, certified in the state of Pennsylvania. I am a trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapist, certified in the state of Pennsylvania. So there are extensive trainings, extensive courses I have taken, and different ways that I've had to prove that I can not only retain the work, regurgitate the work, but also apply it and help people. Because, like, you know, you take these trainings and you're not awarded a certificate. You're awarded a certificate after you successfully have completed a couple of sessions with multiple clients, and someone has supervised your work and said it was okay. So then we just come from two different angles where I'm like, eh, you know, I I appreciate the work you do, and also we will not look the same.

Where To Find Kyra

SPEAKER_00 45:34

So if people do want to get connected with you, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_04 45:38

So if you want to connect with me, you can go to www.the. So it's t-h-e-e-p dot com. I'm there. You can email me if you send me something, it'll go there. I guess for people also, because I do have a social media presence. I am at yfbm underscore therapist for your favorite black millennial therapist on Instagram and on TikTok and on YouTube as well when I start doing my podcasts again. So there are things there. I am I am accessible.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me back. Oh my god, always. Are you kidding me? And so we asked none of the questions we thought we were gonna ask, so maybe round three.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

No, no, no, that was all me. I just was going, I was going rogue.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

I asked all the questions about your books and like the progress that you've made in your career for the first 20 minutes of this.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

So, like, really, it was it was a group effort of people, and I think we did like there are there are a lot of problems. Like, you were just oh god, I love the internet, and I I really despise it because everybody's a coach, everybody knows trauma, everybody has a diagnosis, everybody's autistic, everybody's bipolar, and I'm just like, this no, like we're human. I had an awkward moment. I think I'm autistic. Someone with true autism diagnosis would not think that they had an awkward moment. It just does not register that way, register that way. They're fine. So I said, No, you like you know, you're you're having a moment, it's okay because you're a human, and I just feel like we just feel like we cannot be humans. I know, yes, all right.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

So we're gonna send you another email. We'll schedule part three because that was such a good little bit. So we'll just we'll we'll just get you back on.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

Appreciate it. Y'all, I love y'all. It's mutual, honey. But thank you everyone for joining us today on our episode with Kyra, and we will catch you on the next one. Bye, guys.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

See you.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Thank

Final Wrap And Listener Support

SPEAKER_02 47:49

you so much for listening to this episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

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