Nourish & Empower

Recovery on Campus: Friends, Roommates & Sorority Life

• Jessica Coviello & Maggie Lefavor • Season 2 • Episode 21

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College is supposed to be a fresh start, but if you are living with an eating disorder, trauma, anxiety, or depression, that “new chapter” can turn into the perfect storm fast. We sit down with Lindsay James, LCSW, an eating disorder and trauma therapist at Hilltop Behavioral Health, to talk honestly about what actually changes when you move to campus and why those changes can destabilize recovery even when you feel motivated. We get practical about the stuff no one puts in the brochure: dining hall culture, limited food options, freshmen not having cars, and how poor access can quietly fuel restriction or chaos around meals. We also talk about social pressure and Greek life, including recruitment, appearance expectations, body checking, and how to decide whether joining is worth it for you. Lindsay shares how to think about “finding your people” without making belonging dependent on perfection. Then we dig into boundaries and support: what you do and do not owe a roommate, how to spot who is actually safe to tell, and why keeping a treatment team matters even when you want to reinvent yourself. If you are a parent, we cover communication plans, building a safety net, and ways to stay connected without hovering. Sponsor: Hilltop Behavioral Health. Learn more at www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com. If you want more conversations like this, subscribe, share the episode with someone headed to school, and leave a rating and review.


Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.


Resource links:

Hilltop Behavioral Health: https://hilltopbehavioralhealth.com/ 

Alliance for Eating Disorders: https://www.allianceforeatingdisorders.com/ 

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/


How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand


Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)


Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)


If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. 

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Welcome Guest And CPT Primer

SPEAKER_01

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_00

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_01

Their expert team works with you to achieve recovery and avoid the need for higher levels of care. Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com because healing happens here. Hi, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of Nourish and Empower. Today we have a very special guest with us. We have Lindsay James. She is a licensed clinical social worker who specializes in eating disorders and trauma. She is one of our fantastic therapists at Hilltop Behavioral Health, where she works with teens and adults using approaches like CBT, family-based therapy, cognitive processing therapy, and exposure-based treatment. Before that, she spent six years working at Louisville Center for Eating Disorders in the outpatient IOP and PhP programs, and also worked as a therapist in residential eating disorder treatment at Rosewood in Arizona. She's got her master's in social work with a certificate in trauma therapy from Widener University, and she's licensed to practice in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Indiana, Delaware, Kentucky, and Vermont. I somehow switched Kentucky and Connecticut. I don't know how I did that, but that's okay, but it's both.

SPEAKER_03

So it's fine. Yeah, I got some.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, did I say Connecticut twice? And then I'm like, no, somehow I said Connecticut where Kentucky was and Kentucky where Connecticut was. So different states. Trigger warning before we start, we are identifying the following triggers that will be discussed, but are not limited to eating disorders, trauma, mental health, and body image. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes. All right, Lindsay, we're so happy you're here.

unknown

Hi.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for fighting through your discomfort and being here with us today. I do my best. Therapist doing real work in real time.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. This is not my comfort zone, but here we are.

SPEAKER_01

By the end of it, you're gonna want to be back. It will be. Tomorrow's like, I want to be back. So we're we're gonna convince you.

SPEAKER_00

I'm here for it because I would love to pick your brain on cognitive processing therapy because that's people don't know about it. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like everyone knows a lot about EMDR, but people don't know a lot about like the other two evidence-based approaches, which are CPT, cognitive processing therapy, and then prolonged exposure. There's like the three, and people know about one.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, or even if you're just thinking about like mode, it's like CBT, DBT, and like that's kind of and like EMDR, like that's where it stops.

SPEAKER_01

There's so many. So many. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And especially for trauma, I agree with you. I think CBT is like so fascinating.

SPEAKER_03

So especially for people who particularly who've gone through, you know, like eating disorder treatment before and they're now working on trauma. They already have like the CBT background of it a lot of the times. So like they're like very, very familiar with it. So then when I go into CPT, they're like, Oh, I know how to do this, I can just apply it to this other thing. And I'm like, Yeah, we got this. It's easy peasy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's like because it almost.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, very much so.

unknown

I like it.

SPEAKER_01

For the listener, can you just give a little brief overview of why what this is?

SPEAKER_03

Cognitive processing therapy is a trauma evidence-based practice. It is based in cognitive behavioral therapy where you're challenging thoughts and kind of like the cognitive distortions are called stuck points in CPT. Same thing, same, same different name. But then my favorite part is at the end, there are different modules that you go through that are safety, trust, power, and control, esteem, and intimacy. And it goes over each one of those sections, then goes back to how it's related to trauma, how your trauma influenced those things, past, present, future beliefs, all of that for all of those different areas when it comes to like yourself, others, and the world. So I really like it. Even if people have like sub-threshold trauma, doing kind of a modified version where we're just doing like the themes of it, we're not doing strict CPT can also be super helpful. So I like doing that as well. Just because, like, especially the modules, the modules are doing those are my favorite part because you get like so deep into stuff, and it's like this is where the good stuff is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I like when I forget what we actually wanted to talk about today and just go into that. But I so ipso facto, you have to come back.

SPEAKER_02

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00

You know, this is what happens. She's like, We do it. I like to rope people in. You're real good at it. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Uh,

Why College Can Disrupt Recovery

SPEAKER_00

but anyhoosers, I guess about college.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01

All right, so another episode for CPT, but today college. College, because it's middle of August. People are going back to school, people are starting school. So we kind of wanted to pick your brain on navigating college and for people who have eating disorders or, you know, andor mental health diagnoses, you know, sort of how to navigate all of that as they are going away to school.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I mean, I think that there are like so many factors that go into it, not only like on an individual like personality of every like individual student, but also like the type of school you're going to. A itty-bitty liberal arts school in like a small town is going to be very, very different than a giant SEC school. And like how you navigate those and just like all of the different factors are going to be very different. And there are just like certain things that are kind of across the board, like, especially for freshmen going in, going away from home for the first time, regardless of where you're going, is a massive, massive change with or without an eating disorder. And going into it, especially if someone may not necessarily have a diagnosis or may not recognize that they have an eating disorder, it is a very, very interesting transition for people at times that can be very, very difficult.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that's such a good point about like the different size of schools and types of school. And I feel like maybe for context, we should all say where we went, just because I feel like we're going to be alluding to our own experiences and that might help people clarify like who went where.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Liz, you first, where'd you go? Okay. So for undergrad, I went to American University in Washington, DC. So it was kind of like Yeah. Wow, that's a tough school to get into. You go there. Thank you. So yeah, it was kind of like small-ish. I think there were like 5,000, 10,000 people. I'm not really sure. But it wasn't like a massive state school.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Mm-hmm. And then Widener was your master's.

SPEAKER_03

Uh master's program.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Mm-hmm. Cool.

SPEAKER_00

Mags, where'd you go?

SPEAKER_01

I went to LaSalle University in Philly for my bachelor's and dietetic internship, which is like North Philly. So it's like not a city school in the way like Temple and Drexel and U Sciences and all of those are where they were like kind of in the heart of the city. LaSalle's a little bit like more north of the city and does have like American ones. Yeah, like does have like its own like sort of set campus, but you could walk to the subway in two seconds and like be able to take the trains to the city. Same exact thing. Yeah, yeah. And and then my master's, I got through the University of Alabama, but I did a distance online program. So it was all like just online. I've never I never like went there or anything.

SPEAKER_00

So you should have had that super big school experience.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I guess so. Huge. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I've never been there, but I I hear that it's huge. And I can't wear anything Alabama like out in public anymore because people will just like say football player names at me, and I have no idea what they're talking about. Like, I used to have like an Alabama sticker on my car, and I have like a hat and a sweatshirt and whatever. And then I'd be in the grocery store and people be like, Oh, the quarterback this year. And I'm like, I can't contribute a single thing to this conversation. I'm just gonna pretend like I didn't go there.

SPEAKER_00

So like, yeah, that quarterback, man.

SPEAKER_01

I tell you, he's great, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00

Roll tide.

SPEAKER_02

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_01

You just say roll tide and walk away.

SPEAKER_00

100%. It's the only way to do it. You blend in. I went to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, Gettysburg College, so small school. I also went and I didn't want to go. I literally said to my dad, I'm selling my soul to the devil, and I hate you that I'm going here because like I really didn't want to go. And my dad was like, You're going. I wanted to go to Michigan State University and I got in. Oh, and I didn't go. Yeah, it was really sad. My parents were like, You're not gonna survive one in the cold. I hate the cold. So honestly, I hate when they're right, but they were accurate. And I wanted a really big school, and they were like, You're gonna get swallowed whole. So no. So then I went to Gettysburg, ended up loving it, found my bestest of friends, but no, I literally looked and I didn't talk to my dad for two weeks. So drama, hey, love her. This is what it is. And then for my master's program, I went to Fairley Dickinson University because it's five minutes down the road from my parents' house, and we know I don't like to move far from my parents. So it also is like small it, like Lindsay, like small-ish. Like I don't I don't think it's like super big. I actually don't know, to be honest with you, but was perfect like for what I needed for my marriage.

SPEAKER_03

Right. I'd say it's the same thing. Like if I was picking for me now, I would pick very differently, but it was exactly what I needed at 18.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I still probably would say, give me a big school. Like, let me do a little rah-rah just kumba. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03

Like, I want to see that would be me now. I'd be like, I wanna, I wanna do all the things. But at 18, I would have gotten swallowed whole.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I think that's also some of like what people are figuring out when they're applying to school and then get into school and then go to school. Sometimes what they think they want, and then when they arrive on campus, they're like, oh no, this isn't this isn't what I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I feel like that's normal for people to go in thinking, I want the big, and then going to the big and being like, What am I doing here? And just like sitting in a hold of anxiety. And I feel like sometimes transferring has like a negative connotation to it where it's like, oh, you're a transfer. And it's like, yes, I am, thank you very much. And I feel like I think it happens a lot more than people realize. Yes. And whether it's because you realize the school itself isn't great for you size-wise, or even if it's like, you know, bringing it like in with like eating disorders and mental health and stuff, maybe it's just not a great spot for your mental health or your recovery and you have a different school. And that's also okay. Like you're allowed, that's why transfer is a thing. Like you're allowed to leave, you're not like sign, sealed, delivered, have to stay wherever you start school.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

Food Access Dining Halls And Planning

SPEAKER_03

Like there are some schools where it is like, at least at American, like what like food options were were on campus. There was a grocery store that you could get to, but freshmen weren't allowed to have cars. And at least way back when, like, Uber wasn't really a thing. Like you were taking like a taxi or you were walking and you had to take a bus to then walk like 20 minutes, like with all your groceries. Like, you did it a couple times, but like it wasn't really something that you did on a regular basis. So, like, if that is a barrier, and like now you can get groceries delivered and all the things, there are a lot more options. But if the like isolation, even if it's not an isolated campus, like I was in DC, like it wasn't like I was in the middle of nowhere, but food-wise, it wasn't like everything was not super duper easily accessible. And so, like for somebody that might be something that they realize, oh shoot, this is this is a problem, versus somebody else is like, oh no, I have all of these options, but socially this is a nightmare.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Because I was like Gettysburg, like you're in a small Pennsylvania town. You have Wally World, Walmart, and that's really about it. So, like you, like all the meals were on campus, or like, yes, you could go to the diner and those things, and they were walking distance, but like uh going grocery shopping. Uh I mean, to be quite honest with you, I don't even think I know to this day where the grocery store was. Like, maybe that's a lie. I think I remembered where Dryant was, but I digress. Like, you don't, those aren't the things that you're doing. Because again, you're not like unless you have like a reason and it was approved, you don't have a car on campus. So walking to and from the dining hall, servo, like that's where you win. Yeah, it's a very different experience. And like it's not like we have like I know some schools have like big food courts where you kind of all the like the fast food places. We didn't have that. It was literally a bullet hole where if you wanted like a fast food type thing or servo, where it was like the dining dining hall. There weren't a lot of options, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We had a few. We had like we had like the actual dining hall, we had like a on-campus version of like 7-Eleven. It was American University, our colors were red, white, and blue. Our mascot was Claude Z Eagle, and so it was called the Eagle's Nest. Like it was very on theme. But and then there were like a couple things that were like in like kind of like the campus center. There was like a big old place and like a salad place and like a chicken place or whatever, but it wasn't like a mall food court. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it's different.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Greek Life Culture And ED Triggers

SPEAKER_03

And then the other thing that was different for me than a lot of like a lot of different schools is like at mine, sorority rush was in the spring. No freshman in the fall could rush. It was not an option. So all these schools, like on TikTok, you're watching like Bama Rush, everything. That was not a thing. So a lot of freshmen going in, some schools, it's like, yeah, you're you're going in and you're getting thrown into the deep end and you are rushing and you are doing all of these things that are that like can be very positive, but can be extraordinarily triggering, like right off the bat, and you don't really have a lot of adjustment time versus some, it's not until the spring, but then you learn a lot more, but then there are a lot of like connotations or expectations, or there are judgments that get to build and fester over that semester, and then it's like, oh, well, I'm going here, and that means this about me.

SPEAKER_02

And it's like, no, not not necessarily.

SPEAKER_00

When it comes to because I feel like Greek life is such an interesting loved my Greek life, let me tell you. Put me whenever clients talk about mixers that they're going to, I'm like, oh my God, let me live vicariously through you. What was the theme? What was your outfit? What did you do? Like, I love, I loved a good mixer. I digress. What is something that you feel is helpful when you're like talking about that part of the college experience with clients? Because it's like you, because I was the same way where rushing started freshman spring, and then like actual rushing was sophomore fall. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. You did like, I forget what it was called, but it was like informal rotations freshman spring, then you actually rushed sophomore fall. So you essentially had like a whole year of not being in a sorority. So, like when people are going into it and they're like, Okay, well, this sorority looks like this, this sorority has that, right? Like they all have their thing, yeah. You know, like the the reputation. Yes, that's a great word, huh? Taylor Swift. Like, what are the things that help clients and like what are the conversations you have with them to especially recovery-wise? Because you have to look, you dress, you be, you feel like you have to act like it's very much pageant-like, if you think about it. So, what are the conversations you have with clients and what typically like comes up do you feel for like that segment specifically? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

So, some of it I think, well, it's also very different than it was when I went through recruitment and I went through informal recruitment. Mine was like my school did it in the spring, but I didn't do it until the fall. So, like, I did it even a semester later than I was allowed. But some of it is what what size school are you going to? Like, yeah, for like Bama, it is competitive. You need references. There are coaches, like it is a business versus like a small school, you could just kind of wing it. So I think there's also that difference. But looking at why are you doing this? Is this like at your school, like just the thing that you do? And if you don't do it, you don't have friends? Or is this like you actually want to be a part of this? Like, what is your reasoning for going in the first place? Is this like your roommates going? So you're just going for funsies? Okay, cool, cool, go, have a great time. But if you're going and you're like, oh no, if any house that I want doesn't want me, my soul will be destroyed. It's probably not gonna be the thing for you. Because there is there, there's there's no guarantee of that. Like, that's actually a pretty unlikely outcome that every single house that you want also wants you back, and that nothing is disappointing throughout the entire process.

SPEAKER_00

I started laughing when you said, Are you doing it because you don't think you'll have friends? Because I remember people would always say your sorority sisters will be your most expensive friends you'll ever have in your entire life because you have to like pay to be in the sorority. And it's like, and especially at big schools like Bama, it's like a lot of money.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which is like a whole other like you know, topic we could go into. I just well, because there's also the house.

SPEAKER_03

Because my school didn't have Greek housing.

SPEAKER_00

Same. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So living in a sorority house is also going to be very, very different, especially for girls and especially sharing bathrooms. Well, I was gonna say, does that come up a lot? Yeah. I mean, the idea of there might be a scale in the bathroom, and you go into the bathroom and there are girls throughout the day rotating, stepping on that scale, making comments, saying things, mirror checking, like doing all of the things and body checking in public in the bathroom with 20 other girls getting ready and doing all of these things. Like that's it's very much, I think, dependent on the culture of your individual house.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

I didn't even think of that. Yeah, and then also like sharing rooms and different things, and there could be incredible things about it of you know, being able to come home and have people around you and have people that you're close with and a billion different closets to share with, and like all of the fun things, and like you go out on a date and you get to come home and like gush to everybody about like the time that you had. Like, there can be incredible things about it, but it also depends on I think the culture of the sorority, what it really kind of fosters people within the sorority, because you're not gonna be friends with all the girls, like there were 90, 100 or something in my sorority, and I was not like besties with every single girl in my sorority. Like, that's insane, especially if you're getting up to 300, 400, whatever craziness. Like it's also gonna be dependent on like, okay, who are your people? Yeah, and then also finding your people within that, because like 400 people, like that was the size of like my high school. Like, like that is so many people.

SPEAKER_02

So many people.

SPEAKER_03

So it's also like, okay, how are you gonna find your people within that? And some of it is also just dependent on like pledge class or different things, but and whether even if you're not in a sorority and you're just going to college, back to kind of the main topic, like finding your people, I think, is a really big aspect of it. And at least as freshmen, everybody's trying to find their people. People at the same time. So I think that makes it a little bit easier because it's the first day of school for everyone. And everyone's kind of like, Wanna be my best friend? I have no friends. I know no one. Please save me. But then also when it comes to like people realizing, like, oh, this isn't for me and transferring, or you know, they didn't find their people freshman year, and now they're going back for sophomore year and trying to find them. Like, yeah, it does get tricky.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think that's also where like clubs, other activities, organizations, sports teams, all of the things. Like, yeah, you're probably if you're if you're going back for sophomore year, you're not gonna like join a D1 athletics team, but like you could join club kickball.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like something low stakes that's just fun. Yeah, right.

Roommates Boundaries And Disclosure

SPEAKER_00

So if you're thinking of like roommates, right? Because like you just brought up such a good idea of like being in a big house or just being in like your your dorm of like two people, or I know like some people go in freshman year and have like a suite, right? Where it's like you and three other girls. Would you how do you like talk about the conversation of do you or do you not tell people that you're struggling going into freshman year with an eating disorder or mental health? Like what are like what are things that you usually discuss with clients in like that realm of like how do you broach that topic, or like do you even broach it?

SPEAKER_03

So I think it's also very, very individual. There isn't like a black or white answer, like most things. Because it's also it doesn't have to be like either you tell them or you don't, or you you know, tell them everything about like where things are at, or you say nothing, like it's very much individual. Cause I also think it really depends on okay, where are you at in recovery, or where are you at in your eating disorder journey going into this school year? Because yeah, if you're just figuring out that this is going on and this is something you're struggling with, that is going to be very different than someone who's been in recovery for months. And if it's like, oh hey, like I've been in a good place, but I don't want to backslide. And that's the conversation you're having of like, oh hey, like if you notice little things going on, like, and I might you think I might not be noticing it's happening, like, hey, point it out. Like, that's very different than like a formal sit-down of like, hey, I have an eating disorder, and like all these things that like that person might not have earned the right to hear that, and they might not necessarily be a safe person to tell that to. And you don't know that on day one because you're just unloading your bedding and putting it on your dorm bed on like hour one in the dorms.

SPEAKER_00

That brings up such a good topic, Max. Also, at any point, because I know I'm like non-stop talking. Please tell me to show that anyway. Same. But that brings up such a good point of like they don't necessarily deserve to know. And I feel like a lot of times clients feel like, okay, well, they're my roommate, like, I have to tell them, or like, well, they're what it's my bestie at college, like they deserve to know. And I feel like a lot of times, like, you don't have to tell anybody that you don't know. Like, it's not a secret, right? Absolutely, is it a secret? We want to tell people, we don't want this to thrive in secrecy, we want it to be out in the open. And it doesn't have to be like, hi, my name is Justin. I have an eating disorder. Like, it's also not your identity. So, like, what is the how do you what are you saying are the ways to learn that someone is deserving of something like that while also balancing that like we're not keeping this a secret? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So some of it is also just like and like there's no better way to say it, like the vibes of like when you're interacting with this person, like, are they listening? Do they ask follow-up questions? Do they seem like they actually care about you as a person? How are they talking about other people when they're not there? Like, if it's like just a day or two in and you meet someone in the hall, and then the two, you and your roommate come back into your room and they go, Oh my god, this, this, this, and this about that person that you just met that's super unkind. Yeah, maybe they're not a person to be sharing deep dark secrets or really personal, sensitive topics with. Also looking at how do they speak about food, their body, different things. Like, are they even in a place to receive this information and be at least not harmful in response to it? Because if they maybe are struggling with their own stuff, even just like another person living in society, they might not necessarily have to have an eating disorder, to have a complicated relationship with their body or food, especially women, it's very, very tricky. And so I'd say, like, yeah, really paying attention to how they're responding to different things. And it's it's okay if it takes time, because again, this isn't your identity. And figuring out who you are and who you want to be in college, it's okay to give it some time to figure that out. But then really also making sure, okay, until you kind of figure out who those safe people to share this information with that you can trust that you feel like you can be open in a very healthy way with, are making sure like you've got your treatment team, you've got places on campus that you can go. Like if like you are in like earlier stages of recovery or treatment, like that you've got those appointments with the health center to check in on vitals and different things. Like you are having meetings with your therapist, your dietitian, you are, you know, checking in with your parents or you know, whoever those support people are. And that like that is a discussion that is set up ahead of time because it can be a very, very slippery slope. And we don't want it to be slippery in secret, but at the same time, it is a difficult balance of figuring out, okay, it's not a secret, but I'm also not sure who who won't use this in a in a maybe a negative way or be just unhelpful. And so really making sure you've got that, got that set up ahead of time with the people who you already do know you can trust.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Lindsay,

Identity Beyond ED Plus Support Systems

SPEAKER_01

can you speak more to people wanting to separate their identity away from their eating disorder or other diagnosis going to college, but also still needing support because it's a major life change and how to like navigate the disconnect between those things?

SPEAKER_03

I think really looking at okay, yes, this is an aspect of something that I have been dealing with, something that is a part of you know, my experience, but not who I am. And also having any one thing be who you are is a very, very slip again, slippery slope. Whether that is, you know, you are an athlete and you're like, oh yes, I am this sport thing, I am a soccer player, or I am a runner, or I am a gymnast, or whatever it is, where you're like, I am this thing, it gets very, very tricky because especially sports, like you get hurt, you end up stopping doing the sport. I did gymnastics as a kid and I stopped because my body could not take it anymore. And then I was like, oh, what now? Who am I now? And uh especially like there's a lot of people that go to the Olympics and then they're they do the Olympics and they have reached the pinnacle of the thing. And then they're like, now what? Who am I now? And preventing that from being the case in the first place. So whether that is, you know, a sport or a hobby, an interest or whatever, not having just one thing. Because if for whatever reason, you know, let's say you are a piano player and you hurt your hand and now you can never play piano again, well, now what? It doesn't necessarily have to be just athletics or just an eating disorder, just one thing, like making sure that to the best of your ability, your identity isn't solely one thing because there's always the chance that that one thing won't necessarily be forever, which is also very difficult, especially when you're super dedicated to that one thing. Trying to expand beyond that and be more things is is a tricky, tricky thing to do. I don't know if that's making sense at all, but no, it does.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. And the question that I like really want, I think like going off of that too, is again, it's like it's such a big transition. And so I think then for people, it's like, okay, well, I want to get away from this, I want to redefine myself when I want to go to school, I want to not be in treatment anymore. And so, like, what would you say to that aspect of it of like that disconnect of like, well, I don't, you know, I want to go to school and not have to deal with my eating disorder, but now I'm, you know, does that mean that I can stop treatment?

SPEAKER_03

No, no, no, because here's the thing. If you want to one day, you know, be in a very different place, you you can't just cold turkey up, because that's a really great way to have that be the primary thing going on in your life again.

SPEAKER_00

How do you want to balance that though, right? Like if Maggie, like you, Mags and I always always have thoughts. Because, like, how like, yes, like right, if you're if a client is thinking, like Maggie's saying, like, I want to redefine myself, so I want to go cold turkey with treatment, and I agree, and I agree with you, Lynn's, like, great way to relapse. How do you recognize that I am not my eating disorder and I still need to see my team while I'm there and not have one become the other? Like those two things, like it doesn't have to be my identity, and I know that I still need therapy and like feel normal, right? Reinventive while still providing like TLC for yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I think one is like carving out the time into your schedule ahead of time. Like meals are a non-negotiable. Uh, scheduling your classes to make sure that you have meal times, figuring out with your team ahead of time, like, okay, when am I gonna have my appointments? Where does it make sense for me to have my appointments on campus? Oh, I scheduled this based on my schedule, but my roommates in our room, cool. I need to call the counseling center to see, you know, if they have rooms available for telehealth, like figuring out all of those things ahead of time so that like you've got that all in place as like the baseline. And then anything that you want to do on top of that, like go for it, have the most fun, join any club that you want, you know, go meet people, do things, study, because that's why we're there, like go to class. But I know, right? Silly. But really making sure that like the baseline is getting enough sleep, eating all of your meals and snacks that you need to, going to therapy or like other appointments and having that be like the standard so that everything else is just life, and it's not something that you have to feel like you're trying to fit into your life because it's already like that's the baseline. It's like that would be the ideal. I know it's not always feasible, doable, whatever, but that's kind of how I how I look at it of like let's make sure all the all of our I's are dotted, our T's are crossed as far ahead of time as possible. So then like once you're there, you're like, oh yeah, this is this is college. And you're able to actually like enjoy clo college. And also working with your team of like talking to your team if you're like, hey, I really want to join crochet club, but it meets at the time that we're scheduled, like, are there other options? And like having that open conversation with your team of like this thing I want to do for my life is not possible if things with treatment aren't flexible. And so to the degree that is possible, because sometimes it's not going to be, but to the great degree that is possible, making sure that treatment can also be flexible in the sense of how it's being done, not that it's being done. I love that distinction. But yeah, like do do treatment.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. But it's true, right? Because like, and you know, sometimes, and I understand, sometimes it's hard for a client to see that like uh doing treatment or participating in treatment is not, I understand how we can feel like, okay, well, that's taking me away from life. However, if we think about our eating disorder and if we think about all the moments in high school before you even go to college, of how many parties were you not really present at? How many hours before parties were you doing all the things to make sure that you were quote unquote ready or your eating disorder was happy so you could enjoy the party, but then were we really enjoying the party? Like how much of your life in high school was taken from you that you don't think that's gonna happen without your treatment team while you're in college? Like the eating disorder is going to take away so much more than you participating in treatment twice a week or like however often the cadence is. So it's like, yes, and like all of the right, and it's the duality of things, it's really frustrating. It's been a really big thing lately. I love talking about duality these days. Like, it's really frustrating that I have to participate in treatment while I'm starting this like brand new time of my life, and it's really important that I participate in treatment in this like new time in my life, like all conflicting things can be true at the same time and feel both of them and go to treatment, participate.

SPEAKER_03

Right, yeah, because especially if you want this new time of your life to be like fun, exciting, and enjoyable, the eating disorder is a great way to make that not happen.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Like, do I want to fixate on what I'm eating and how often we're moving, or do I want to focus on like my girlfriends want to go out to eat, or like I'm going on a date, or like what are the fun, or like you're going to a mixer? Oh, bring me back. Like, what are the things that you want to actually focus on? Yeah. And two hours out of the week versus hours out of the week, which would you rather? I'd rather two. Right.

SPEAKER_03

And also, I think the other thing is like if things start to get a little dicey mentally, tell your team before anything happens. Please, I beg of you, tell your team, tell your people, tell somebody that it's even happening in your brain. Because once they become behaviors, it is even harder. And then, okay, you it got to the behavior stage. Okay, fine. Please tell your team. Please still tell them because, like, we all know it could the eating disorder could make it so much worse.

unknown

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03

Intervening early, gonna make it way easier than waiting. And like some people, like, oh no, I feel like my team's gonna get mad, or my parents are gonna get mad, or like these bad things will happen. Okay, well, what's gonna happen if you wait two months? Seems like it's gonna get a lot worse.

SPEAKER_02

A lot worse, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Can I ask a question? Because I know we were restricted on time, but there's one question I really wanted to ask you. Parents.

Parents Communication And Safety Nets

SPEAKER_00

Because I feel like it's terrifying for a parent with or like even without an eating disorder. It's like I think about it with Christopher, and I'm like, You're never going away to college. Like, I'm so sorry, you're gonna be by my side 24/7. Like, it's scary to just send your kid off to school and be like, bon voyage, have fun. Like, I don't have eyes on you 24-7. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01

But like the Gettysburg, Michigan thing, just saying not to I'm probably up.

SPEAKER_00

100%. I'm gonna become my father, and that's gonna have to be a whole therapy session within itself. I hope my therapist is ready for that one. Because Maggie, when you're right, you're right. I but so like how, like, I guess, like, how do you support parents? And what advice do you give parents who are so scared eating disorder, mental health without an eating disorder, or just like my kid's going away to college? What yeah, how do you support and what advice do you give parents for all of the different types of variations of I'm scared to that my kid's going away?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think so. Some of it is going to be based on your individual kid. Like, if you know that it is like pulling teeth, getting your kid to communicate you, communicate with you, like that is gonna be very different than the kid who tells you everything right away, versus like if you have a kid who's going to a school in state, that's gonna be very different than if they're going to school on the other side of the country. And yeah, you can't just stop by and be like, hey, do you want to grab lunch? Like that is not gonna be a thing. And you wanna, you know, not impede on their college life. But at the same time, you know, depending on where they are in recovery or where they are in treatment, or if you're sending your kid away for the very first time and you know, you don't know anything about them having an eating disorder, but you're just scared because he's your baby. Like that is very, very hard and difficult. I'd say communication is gonna be like a huge thing. Now, FaceTime exists, so like getting some eyes on them. Because a lot of times, like facial expressions, body language, like you know your kid. And sometimes, like, I'll even be on the phone with my mom and I'll like say hi and she's like, What's wrong? And just by like the tone of my voice, my mom knows something's up. And so, like, having that kind of like parent intuition, you know, seeing if there's somebody local that can, you know, get eyes on your kid, talking to them, like all of that is gonna be really important. If they already do have a treatment team, I mean, I personally don't like any of you know my patients who are going away to school for me to not have a release to talk to their parents. It might be like, yeah, only under certain, you know, emergent circumstances, or if I have concerns, there might be like different, you know, factors at play there. But if it's like, no, you can't talk to my parents at all, there's some concern there. So I think it's also like being in touch with treatment team, like being able to talk to their therapist, their dietitian, share those concerns openly, you know, all of those different factors. And yes, you can't bubble wrap your kid. And there's only so much that can be done. And sometimes it's really scary when they come back from fall break. And yeah, that's that's really, really, really hard. I wish that there was a way I could say, oh, yes, you do this one thing and everything will go perfectly. But that's not realistic, unfortunately. It's just trying to get as many of the safety net things in place as possible ahead of time so that you're not in a panic and not kind of scrambling and you have all those resources ready and available if needed, but having them ready and available if needed, I'd say would kind of be like the ideal. And it doesn't always go the ideal, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and trusting, right? Like, yeah, I think trust is a huge piece of it, like trusting the person you're supporting, trusting their treatment team, trusting the resources that the school has in place. Like, there's gotta be an element of that going into it too.

SPEAKER_03

And also to some degree, every relationship is different, but like what level of trust do you have with your kid? Right. Do you believe that if they're struggling, they're actually gonna tell you? Or, and if not, like, okay, what things do we need to put in place? Because I don't think you're gonna tell me anything. And having that all kind of set up as much as possible. And at the end of the day, you know, eating disorders are tricky, but we can only like do our best with the information we have and the with the resources available and like with everyone's good intentions to try to set set every kid up to be as successful at college as possible.

SPEAKER_02

College,

Final Takeaways And Listener Support

SPEAKER_02

man. Yeah, too short. You know, this was I this was actually not not bad. This was okay. This was fun.

SPEAKER_01

We'll take it. That should be the R new tagline. This was actually not bad.

SPEAKER_02

What about the rest of it? This was okay, this was fun. You guys actually don't suck.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's amazing. All right, well, thank you, Lindsay. Thank you, everybody listening. And if you want Lindsay back, let us know. We'll we'll need some some people behind us to convince her again that it wasn't too bad.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm gonna need I'm gonna need some community support here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Amazing. All right, well, thank you everyone, and we'll catch you on the next one. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_01

We hope this episode helps you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_00

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a rating, and comment and share with anyone else you may feel will benefit.