Bonus Episode: My Husband Wants Kids But I Don't (Is Childfree For Me?)

Brita's story is a raw and honest exploration of one of the most challenging scenarios in relationships: the discovery that one partner wants a child, and the other doesn't. She and her ex-husband started their romance young, with the societal script of "happily ever after plus baby" playing in the background. But as time went on, that traditional script began to unravel.

In this episode, Brita peels back the layers of her decision-making process, revealing the internal struggles, the relationship tensions, and ultimately, the path to self-discovery.

If you've ever wondered about the real-life implications of how the "baby decision" impacts a relationship, or if you're grappling with your own childfree choice, Brita's story will inspire you to check in with your true authentic self. 

Doors to "Is Childfree For Me? The Essential Guide to Exploring Childfree Life" ARE OPEN! (This is an invite-only program.) Book your FREE call with me so together, we can decide if this exploration journey is exactly what you need. The next cohort begins soon!

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Transcript

Veronica: Rick and I will be back next time, but today I have a very special bonus episode of Is Child Free For Me, where my program graduates share their personal story of how they found peace and confidence with the child free choice. Today, you will meet Brita. Brita's story is a raw and honest exploration of one of the most challenging scenarios in relationships.

The discovery that one partner wants a child. and the other doesn't. She and her ex husband started their romance young with the societal script of happily ever after plus baby playing in the background. But as time went on, that traditional script began to unravel. In this episode, In this episode, Brita peels back the layers of her decision making process, revealing the internal struggles, the relationship tensions, and ultimately, the path to self discovery.

If you've ever wondered about the real life implications of how the baby decision [00:01:00] impacts a relationship, or if you're grappling with your own child free choice, Brita's story will inspire you to check in with your true, authentic self. Let's get into it.

So I'm really excited to have Brita on the show today. Brita is a 39 year old top three woman living in California. And I know, I know that so many of you will relate to her story because Brita found herself in a situation where her husband wanted kids and she just wasn't sure if she did or not. So. So I'm excited to dive into this conversation.

It's a lot of layers. You're going to be really interested in how all this unfolds. So welcome to the show, Radha. I'm excited to have you. so much. Thanks for having me. I remember that when we first spoke, when you initially reached out to me about my program, you share with me how. You always saw [00:02:00] motherhood as part of your story, and I just wanted you to explain a little bit about what that means for you.

Brita: I'm the oldest of three children. I have a brother and a sister. I come from a family that's super close, and so growing up, you know, we spent a lot of time together as a family. All of my, um, family now lives here. In the same area in the bay area, spend a lot of time together. So that's just something that I always saw as being part of my life in the future when I would envision myself as an adult, I always imagined myself married and with children.

Veronica: So what happened that made you think, Hmm, there is another path here for me to take? 

Brita: Well, I was fortunate to have parents that never pressured me to do anything. So like they wanted me to get a good education and be happy and have a career, but they never pressured me to. settled down. They never pressured me to get married or have Children.

And I think maybe part of the reason why is because we did have some family members and close friends, [00:03:00] family friends who didn't have Children. And I think that although we never explicitly like talked about those choices or those circumstances, it was it was there. And so there were some examples kind of in the back of my mind and my subconscious that there were ways to, you know, live a fulfilling life without them.

Veronica: Yeah, I think that's super helpful because I talked to so many people that do not have any child free people in their lives, never did while they were growing up. So it definitely makes it a lot harder to imagine it, especially since media, social media, film, books, you often don't see the child free life being represented.

So I definitely can see how that was helpful for you. I know that you started dating your ex husband really young. About how old were you? We were 19 when we met. Okay, so you met at 19 and how long were you dating before you decided to get married 

Brita: or almost 10 years? I was 29 when we got married. Okay, so then 

Veronica: you didn't have the Dating pool and practice of going out on first dates second dates [00:04:00] third dates and having this Conversation come up or this question come up or even having to bring this up because you were together with him the whole time 

Brita: Correct.

Yeah, I mean at that point pretty much You I think both of us assumed that it was going to be something we would do in the future would be to have children. 

Veronica: Did you check in with each other and say, okay, we're still under the assumption that this is something we're going to do. 

Brita: I don't remember explicitly having that conversation.

We never did anything like premarital counseling, but you know, we were purchasing a property together. So we, you know, school districts for future children were something that we kind of discussed in that context. So I think it was. 

Veronica: How do you feel about it now? As far as how popular it is that this conversation doesn't take place.

Brita: I'm not sure it would have made a whole lot of difference in our case because we were young and we weren't planning on having kids young. And so it felt so far in the future. And I think we had a lot of time to figure it out. And it wasn't until, like, we started to really approach [00:05:00] that 30, 31 that. The pressure all started like really fast and started appearing.

Veronica: Okay, so tell me about some of that pressure what started happening for you. Was the pressure just on you? Was it on him? What went down? 

Brita: Well, you know, I think this is probably common but as the woman in the relationship the one who Presumably is gonna have to give birth to the children. I started thinking about that in context of of my age more.

So I think I was like feeling that pressure that if I wanted to do, if this was something we wanted to do, we needed to do it soon. Being a doctor, I know that those risks go up with age. And that's something that was always very important to me to respect. I did not want to physically undergo and put myself at those risks at a later age.

And so to me, it was really important that if I were going to choose to have children to actually like start trying to do that earlier. 

Veronica: So at this point, while this is happening, and you're probably around your early thirties, did you have a conversation with [00:06:00] him and let him know what was going on? 

Brita: Yeah.

So I tried to start bringing this up and I wanted to talk about it. I wanted for us to have these conversations, but he wasn't really in a place where he could have the bandwidth to do so. And so we kind of just kept tabling the discussion. 

Veronica: How much time went by before you said to yourself, I need to.

Have this conversation again, or at least try to get some answers this time. 

Brita: So, I probably would try to bring it up again, maybe every year to two years, but it wasn't until I was 37 that I was incredibly firm, like, we are having this conversation, 

Veronica: like, now. You're ruminating about this and thinking about this all the time.

So you're thinking, I am letting all this time go by to give him some space to think about it. And then you mention it and the response is. [00:07:00] We're talking about this again, we just talked about this or Why are we having this conversation again? Was that similar to how he felt at the time? I think you 

Brita: know, I I don't want to like speak for how he felt but I think that in his life He had a lot going on that was more urgent to deal with and you know in my life I felt like this was urgent for me to deal with because I've always felt very strongly that it's So much for the woman to physically go through and that yeah, a lot of times is minimized So I think that I don't know how much men can relate to that.

Why 

Veronica: do you think that? At the time so much time would go by Before you mentioned it again. What was What was your feeling about it? 

Brita: I think I was just trying to, I was trying to be understanding. I was trying to be a good wife. I was trying to, like, not be pushy, trying not to rush things. I mean, I really wanted things to, like, [00:08:00] work out between us, so I didn't want to be losing ground and pushing him over the edge to his death.

Breaking point by like insisting that we have these conversations. So it's just like, okay, let's just keep waiting, keep waiting. But it was so hard because it was all consuming. I mean, it's just always something that was in the back of my mind, you know, that I had to deal with and to be constantly pushing it away, like was.

It took so much mental energy. 

Veronica: Yeah. And I think that's what's really important to remember because you explain how you weren't experiencing the pressure from your parents or family or friends, or maybe even coworkers. We haven't discussed that, but the pressure that you were feeling was very internal and that internal pressure can just feel so heavy.

I mean, I had a similar experience. It just feels like you're carrying so much weight and the ruminating can be so intense and all this is going on within and the outside world has no idea that this is even happening. So does that resonate with you? 

Brita: [00:09:00] Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it's these little things, right?

It's like, okay, if I have my first kid at 35, then the second one's going to be 37. How old am I going to be by the time they are in college? What implications does this have for me financially, physically, career wise? It's just like this constant one is how is the maternity leave going to factor in like all these.

Questions that I was 

Veronica: suppressing and unanswered questions, just question after question after question, but not really getting answers. And when you're sneaking answers, you're still on standby because this conversation can even be had. At what point did the pausing of this topic shift? And then finally you both said.

Who came to whom and said, okay, we need to have this conversation. This is how I'm feeling. 

Brita: My ex husband and I had been living apart for a while because of career, the career situation. And so we were long distance for a couple of years, which was, you know, another challenge, like, [00:10:00] but sure. But we were finally living in the same place again, and I had, I had moved in order to be where his job was.

So 36 at the time I moved and it took me a while to settle into my new job for like six months to a year. But once I felt like I had done that, then I was approaching like 37 and I was like, okay, we need to decide this now. How does that affect your relationship? At least for you? It puts a lot of pressure on the relationship.

You know, it's hard to enjoy someone else's company when you feel like you have this unresolved issue. And so I think it really puts a strain, it really put a strain on the relationship for me. 

Veronica: Did any resentment start to build up because of his lack of wanting to discuss this? 

Brita: Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, I, I definitely said some unkind things to him about the fact that he like forced me to wait so long to make this decision.

And, you know, that's not [00:11:00] entirely fair, but that's how I felt at the time. So, yeah. Yeah. 

Veronica: I mean, I think that makes sense. It's such a big decision to make. If not, I mean, Rick and I always talk about how it's the biggest decision that we can make in our lives. And it's understandable that when this is just.

It being ignored and maybe perhaps you feel you don't feel seen you don't feel heard Uh, it can start building these negative emotions towards your partner. I mean, I think that completely makes sense Oh, yeah, totally Yeah all those things Yep. So during this time when you are essentially on hold, did you have friends that were having kids that the people around you start getting pregnant?

And if so, what was that affecting what you're, what you were going through at all? 

Brita: So at the time my sister was pregnant, And we're super close, so she's going through 

Veronica: that, 

Brita: and [00:12:00] that was a little bit of added pressure because of, you know, if I, if we were going to have kids, it was something that I wanted to kind of time, you know, with other people so that, you know, cousins could have a relationship with each other and things like that.

Definitely the majority of my friends have children, and had them a while ago, so like, they are, were already probably, you know, two, three years old at this point. 

Veronica: Essentially what it feels like is here. I'm moving forward in life, right? You are working on your career. You're building your career, but you are seeing people moving forward with the kid thing.

We're starting to see our friends and family get pregnant. People have toddlers, people have older kids. So there's essentially the traditional family is being built around you, very similar to the family that you grew up with. So what happened next? 

Brita: What I really realized I needed to do was make this decision for myself at that 

Veronica: point.

Brita: So then I [00:13:00] was like, I can't keep waiting for like someone else to decide what is going to happen in my life. So, um, I started doing some research. I found your podcast. I started reading some books and talking to somebody professionally to kind of help you. Me work through this making this decision for me.

Veronica: Did he know that this was going on that you're trying to Go through the self discovery process of what your decision is. Was he in the loop of that? 

Brita: I was trying to keep him in the loop. Yeah, I was trying to tell him okay I'm like moving forward with trying to figure these things out. Yeah I don't know how good of a job I did with being explicit, but my intention was to 

Veronica: let 

Brita: him know 

Veronica: Okay.

So you're going through this process of trying to come to a decision. You've decided, look, I need to do this on my own. And then he came to you and told you what? 

Brita: So then as time went on, I think he also tried to think about the decision from his standpoint, [00:14:00] like making the decision for him after I started kind of going through that process.

Veronica: Do you think that he started going through the process because you were going through it? Okay. Okay. So he's on his own just self discovery journey and you're both doing it Which ideally sounds wonderful because you should make these decisions on your own Okay 

Brita: So he shared with me that he was trying to Get some clarity on what he wanted for his life and his goals six months later And then we we did, you know, we were having some Counseling sessions together as well.

And so then he did share with me, uh, that he decided he did want children and a family to like 100 percent be a part of his life story. 

Veronica: Did he share this information with you inside the counseling session or in private? I think it was in 

Brita: private first. 

Veronica: Okay, so after all this time of him feeling like let's put this on hold, he comes to you and says, I've made my decision, I 100 percent want to [00:15:00] have children.

What was your immediate reaction to that news? 

Brita: I was happy for him that he had made that decision. And come to a decision because by that point, I had already decided that I definitely didn't want children. And I knew that having made that decision was a weight lifted for me, right? Because I felt like the in between was so hard.

So I was happy that he had gotten that clarity, but then I was also sad because I knew that it meant that we were not going to be able to stay together. 

Veronica: So was there a point that you felt We can still somehow meet halfway and one of us can change our minds. Was there a point that either one of you felt that, or was there such a line drawn in the sand that it became clear, okay, we can no longer move forward together.

Brita: So we both have demanding professional lives. We both shared with each other that we did not want. To really like cut back on what we were doing [00:16:00] professionally and agreed that in order to have a family, it was very clear that we would need to basically hire like full time help. Either hired help, live in help, or have relatives live with us in order to be able to like have children.

Otherwise there would be no way one of us would have to really cut back professionally. I knew that was not something I was willing to do. That's just not the type of lifestyle that I would be okay with. Got it. Yeah. So, so I think once he said that, like, he definitely wanted children, I knew for sure that I wasn't the person who could do that with him.

Veronica: Right. Because that essentially would mean that you would need to give up a part or a full part of your professional career because you weren't feeling comfortable with having a nanny raise your child full time. Exactly. Yeah. 

Brita: In a different part of my life, I might have been willing to really scale back temporarily, or I might have been willing to entertain those possibilities, or perhaps if we were in a different [00:17:00] geographic location, 

Veronica: then I think 

Brita: maybe things would have been different earlier on, but I think that Circumstances that we found ourselves in at that point in time.

I'll never forget when one of my friends asked me, because, you know, we were out talking about, did I talk to my friends, like, about this decision? And one of my good friends asked me, like, well, why do you want kids? And this was probably when I was like 35, and I was like, wait a minute. Why do I actually want them?

And kept thought about that so many times. And then in this moment, I was like, why do I want kids? I don't actually want them. And so I had so much clarity about the fact that in that moment, if I had been, if I had stayed and I had been. Um, willing to go down that path, it would have been a complete, like, sacrifice to give him every, to give him that at the expense of so many other things that.

More important to me. 

Veronica: I've had so many messages from women saying, I think I'm at this crossroads [00:18:00] where my partner wants kids and I don't and obviously depending on the individual situation, it can just feel so complicated. And the idea of. Moving forward with the divorce just seemed so scary and daunting and sad and heartbreaking that oftentimes couples do try to meet in the middle.

And when, with this particular topic, meeting in the middle means that someone is not going to pursue the path that they truly want. What was it like for you to look into the future and think about. The end of your relationship 

Brita: for so many years, I felt like we had been trying to compromise. And in a way it was like, there is some sort of, 

Veronica: do you think maybe relief?

Brita: Yeah. Like I was going to say relief. Yeah. A relief or kind of like a release of like [00:19:00] obligation. for both of us, you know, because he's trying to make it work with me. I'm trying to make it work with him. Our goals just aren't aligning anymore. And although there's all this pain to go through and actually ending the relationship at the end, there's like a way for us both to potentially have what we want in the future.

You know, I think both of us kind of saw that and didn't make it any less painful, but I think, you know, I'm grateful that like, I was able to see that there could be a way forward. And I have a lot of friends who have gone through, uh, relationships ending kind of at this stage in their lives. And so it really helped to be able to see them in the future, you know, and having gone through that and come out the other side.

Veronica: I mentioned to you that you and I both got divorced. I was, we were the same age and we went through very similar experiences. And I think that for women specifically, [00:20:00] once you are getting divorced and you're nearing 40, a lot of limiting beliefs start circling through your head. Oftentimes we know what we want, right?

You say to yourself, I'm Leaving this relationship for various reasons, but one large reason is the fact that I don't want kids. However, Why am I feeling the way I'm feeling? Why am I feeling confused? Why am I feeling maybe a sense of shame? Why am I feeling anxiety over this? And I think that it's really important for women to know that Even after you make your decision, all these layered, complicated feelings still exist, which is essentially what you were dealing with.

Do you know what was triggering all these limiting beliefs? Because I know that we joked about it once, but you were telling me that you, felt washed up that you were [00:21:00] thinking, you know, your days are numbered over and all very common thoughts that we have about ourselves because I felt the same way, but maybe you can share a little bit of what your experience was with that because people will look at you like you're this professional, confident, strong woman, but yet it's so hard 

Brita: to avoid these thoughts.

It was so, it was so hard in the beginning to not feel like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be 40 soon. And I don't like, I'm now I'm going to be divorced and I don't have kids and I don't have a family. There's so many people that would look at that life and be like, what a, what a shame or like, how sad. 

And 

I think it just comes from like the constant conditioning that if you don't have children, then you are missing something that we hear just inundated.

Like crazy. I in, day out. Day in, day out. Like in social media. I mean, one of the things that really helped is I got off social media almost three years ago 

[00:22:00] and 

I don't, you know, like the friends that I, that I have, I like to love to see their pictures. But what I Uh, want to see is the things that aren't reality, you know, and like the comments and things like that.

So that really helped 

Veronica: to let go of that. It just becomes too much, right? We're getting pulled in multiple directions. We're starting to be confused between what's right and what's wrong. We're starting to try to find what's right and what's wrong. But when we're in it, it's impossible to see it ourselves.

It just gets so complicated. 

Brita: As I was going through all of this. Your program helped me so much because it really focused me inwards to think about what do I want? How do I want to feel? What choices do I want to make for myself? And to recognize the times where it's just, I would start to get anxious and like feel trapped because I felt like I was missing out on something or I felt like I would regret something.

But they're just like, that's just life, you know, like no matter what you're talking about. You're always [00:23:00] going to be missing out on something based on a choice that you made. And so like, you can't live your life that way. 

Veronica: I know we can't, or we're going to continue driving ourselves nuts. What initially motivated you to call me and potentially join my program?

Brita: Well, I had been listening to your podcast for a while. I can't remember exactly when I found it, but as soon as I found it, I listened to all the episodes. And then I was getting your, you know, your ones that would come out. So then I was up, I was current. And then I remember you talking about like your program and how like you're about to start a new cohort.

And I was going through a lot because we had decided to get divorced and we were like dealing with the filing and I was going to be moving and starting a new job and all those things. And so I didn't really have like the bandwidth to enter something, but. I listened to one of your podcast episodes, it's actually my last day of work at my old job.

And then I was like, I'm gonna reach out today. I was like, this is great [00:24:00] timing. Like I've just wrapped up a bunch of stuff. Now this is like perfect. 

Veronica: It's really interesting because I find that oftentimes We feel like we can handle it ourselves and I think I'm talking about myself too here. We're like I got this I'm gonna figure this out.

I don't necessarily think that I need the support. I'm going to read more books I'm going to listen to more podcasts. I'm gonna do the thing But we get to the point where it becomes very clear and very obvious that we're not really moving forward and that support could potentially be really beneficial through this process.

And what I really enjoyed about our initial conversation when you reached out to me was that you were in such a transition period. And oftentimes when, As women, we're in transition periods. Again, we go through all of this alone when we don't necessarily need to. 

Brita: I just thought it would be [00:25:00] so wonderful to like be able to spend time with you and the other women who are going to be in the program who are like in the same boat as me.

You know, just trying to figure things out. Yeah, it was, it was so great. 

Veronica: So I always ask people this and I want to get your perspective. What was it like the first time you jumped into the group and there's Ladies in there that you've never met before and we're talking about really deep personal Topics and discussions and we're having private chats.

How did that feel like for you? What was that experience like? 

Brita: I mean, there are people coming from all different situations and of different ages, but I felt like everybody could relate to each other because we're all struggling with this decision. So it just felt like so good to be able to say those things to like an audience that it would resonate with.

Veronica: Yeah, I think it's fun and interesting not to have to say, But, or, or set caveats [00:26:00] before you're going to make a statement because the statement that you're making, everybody can relate to. So we don't have to justify what we're feeling or justify what we're saying because essentially everyone's in the same boat.

So I'm glad that you had that experience. It means a lot. So you mentioned earlier that you moved to where your husband was working. And I know that transition meant that. You went to a very suburban area. So tell me how that affected you, your choice, or how you saw that, how that felt for you. 

Brita: The place I was living previously, I felt like there were a lot of neighbors that I've had that were women in middle age to older without children.

All over the place. When I moved it was not bad and like I mean I was living in definitely more suburban area like you said so it tended to be more like single family homes, big yards, things like that [00:27:00] which kind of lends itself to families. Everybody was super nice but in the mornings when we would Moms and dads were dropping off their kids to the school bus.

I'd be like the one person walking just with my dog. And I just remember it being, feeling like really isolating. Okay. I'm like the only person in this neighborhood who doesn't have children. 

Veronica: I'm wondering if you saw any changes moving from a suburban area back to California. Is it energetically different?

Brita: There may have been like more of that diversity that I just mentioned. Wasn't seeing in the area that I was in before, but here it's like very, very, um, apparent. And so people choosing to just live in ways that are not your traditional nuclear family structure. So it does feel, it feels more like a place that I can fit in a little bit more.

And it's also home for me. So that part like helps too. 

Veronica: So there was one thing that you said to me at the end of the program and I [00:28:00] wanted you to just expand on it a little bit because you said this program has not only helped me with this decision, but it really has opened up the doors to other decisions in my life.

So maybe you can just dive into that a little bit of what you meant by that. 

Brita: Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, I very much feel like, The way you conducted your program and like the life lessons that you are helping us to realize and the introspection is applicable to like everything in life. Just trying to figure out like what is it that I truly value and what, how do I want to spend my time, what's important to me and why am I making the decisions that I'm making.

I feel like there's a lot of things that it's helped me with as I, as I'm starting this new. job and like phase of my life boundary setting and like deciding what do I want like independent of like what society or what my job or what my family is telling me to do. What is truly the [00:29:00] best decision for me?

I feel like before in my life I had a lot of like internal conflict. Oh, I truly want to do this, but I feel shame about it. Choosing what I know I truly want. And then so I would give in and do what everyone else wanted me to do. And then of course be unhappy and be burned out and not feel good. And so as I move forward, I'm trying in very little ways to like, continue making these decisions that are more true to me and it feels good.

It's hard. 

Veronica: But it feels really good and it's something that I take really seriously making decisions that are right for us because oftentimes we get so stuck in What is right and what is wrong? But we don't ask ourselves what is right for us because we're taking so many things Into consideration when it comes to our decision making so That makes me really happy to hear and i'm glad that it The tools and the resources that you learn, you can use moving forward because it is so helpful to just put ourselves [00:30:00] first when it comes to these major life decisions.

So I'm glad that this is happening for you as well. So let's go into present day, Brita, how you're feeling, 

Brita: what's going on. I feel like I have this like trench to get through. And, uh, it was hard to tell where the bottom of the trench was because it wasn't smooth. So there were some ups and downs in the bottom of the trench.

But I finally feel like I'm, like, climbing out the other side. 

Yay! So I'm sure there's going to be some tips on the way back out. Always, always. 

But I feel overall like really good. I feel like empowered. I feel like by living this and being true to myself, I'm going to be able to bring my best self to all aspects of my life moving forward.

And I'm also feeling like very empowered to not have to explain myself to others. And that's [00:31:00] another thing that I. Thank you for, like, helping us and helping, like, practice with us because I think especially as women, we feel the need to do that. 

Veronica: Because oftentimes as women, we can see that taking that approach as being unkind when actually we're just being unkind to ourselves.

So it's really interesting that we can fall into that trap, whereas where we feel confident and we're putting ourselves first, and this is a big criticism and judgment of Child-Free Women and Child-Free life in general, or child-free people, is this quote unquote selfish aspect of putting ourselves first.

When in reality, putting ourselves first is not only lighting us up and giving us the ability. To move forward in a really positive and loving way, but at the same time, it allows us to light up and share love and kindness with everyone around us. 

Brita: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel like I have so [00:32:00] much more bandwidth to be able to like bring my best self to everybody who's in my life because I am living the way that I choose to.

Veronica: Okay. So as you're going through your transition process, what are your thoughts, if any, about dating and approaching this topic while you're dating? 

Brita: So I think that's still a long way off for me, but I keep thinking back to something that you said before I joined the program in our initial conversation, which was that you really wanted me to be at a spot where I feel super confident with my decision going into that next phase, because Uh, what I really don't want to happen is for someone else to make that decision for me or to 

Veronica: like influence me.

This is another place in time where women can be judged because I remember after my divorce, it was a lot of, Okay, when are you going to start dating? When are you going to have a boyfriend? When are you going to move forward? Are you getting married again? And, uh, I felt like, [00:33:00] Whoa, I need a little breathing room.

So I was almost nervous to even ask you that question, but I thought it was important for people to understand how you were going to approach it in the future. And I think it's really important that each one of us decides whatever, again, is best for us during that transition process. After maybe some of us decide that we want to start dating right away.

Some of us want to wait five years, 10 years. Some of us are completely done with partnership and that anything we decide ever in life is okay because that's what's best for 

Brita: us. I love that, and I'm so grateful that I'm in a spot in my life where I can fully internalize and live that. 

Veronica: As we're approaching the end of something, like you mentioned before, it becomes harder to see the light.

But as we're going to the other side, and you're starting to see the light, as you mentioned, it just opens up so much opportunity. [00:34:00] Possibility, joy, love. So you are so amazing. It has been such an honor to meet you, to guide you through this program, to become friends with you. And I am just so, so excited for your future.

And thank you so much for sharing your story, because I know that a lot of women listening to this are really going to resonate. 

Brita: Oh, thank you so much, Veronica. I feel like I'm the lucky one that, like, I came across you and, like, you've just been such a role model for me. Your program, the work you do is so amazing.

It's helped me so much. And you are such an amazing person. So, thank you. 

Veronica: You're welcome. I'll take it. Thank you, Brita. Bye. Bye.