In the episode, I talk to Dr. Alan Pope from the NASA Langley Research Centre in Hampton, Virginia. Alan talks about how his passion for engineering and psychology led to his research on mental workload, the biocybernetic loop and neurofeedback systems. Our conversation also takes in the influence of cybernetics on his work, how to use EEG to measure psychological states and the methodological issues around constructing and evaluating systems that use measures from the body and brain in real-time.