Episode 11 Archive Dive with Angela Brinskele

In this episode, Dr. Marie Cartier sits down with Angela Brinskele, Director of Communications for the June Mazer Lesbian Archives. They explore the rich history preserved at the Mazer, one of only two brick-and-mortar lesbian archives in the U.S. Angela shares fascinating stories about the artifacts related to lesbian bars, including rare photos, flyers, and memorabilia from bars like The Palms and The K in Long Beach. They also discuss the challenges of documenting lesbian history, particularly in decades where bar culture was essential yet dangerous for LGBTQ+ people. Angela reflects on her personal experiences in lesbian bars during the 1980s and the importance of preserving queer spaces for future generations. This episode offers a glimpse into the invaluable work of maintaining a history that might otherwise disappear.

The Dyke Dive, Last Call is a limited series podcast hosted by Dr. Marie Cartier.
Produced and Edited by Kimberly Esslinger

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Transcript

00:10.74
Marie Cartier
Hi, this is Dr. Marie Cartier, and I'm here today on Dyke Dive with my friend Angela Brinskele, the director of communications for the June Mazer Lesbian Archives in West Hollywood, one of two brick and mortar spaces for lesbian collections in the United States. The other one being the Lesbian Herstory Archives in New York. Angela, thank you so much for being with us today.

00:44.34
Angela Brinskele
Oh, it's my pleasure.

00:47.58
Marie Cartier
So great. So, you know we're talking about Lesbian bars in this Dyke Dive, of course, and I was thinking that some of our listeners might want to know what—

00:54.38
Angela Brinskele
Each this.

01:04.15
Marie Cartier
Is in the Mazer archives that has to do with lesbian bars. I mean, what can you get your hands on?

01:14.16
Angela Brinskele
Well, actually, we have a lot of bar paraphernalia. We also have artifacts, but we also have a tape that was once made by the Mazer where they sent out flyers and said if you went to the bars in the 50s, 60s, 70s, please come and talk about it, and they videotaped it. They planned to do a whole series of those, but they only did one, and it was phenomenal, though, because a few women came who had been in the bars pretty extensively and talked about the different years and the different experiences. It was really different in the 50s, and people could be arrested if they were considered mentally ill. So a lot of people did not document those days very well. You couldn't take a camera into a bar in the 50s because you'd be thrown out if you did, so we do have some bar photos as far back as the 50s bars, but not as many as I would like.

02:21.71
Marie Cartier
And how about, are there things in the Mazer where we could see where these bars used to be, like advertisements or flyers or things like that that might have been in magazines?

02:36.15
Angela Brinskele
Yeah, absolutely. That's what I was going to say. The lesbian news, particularly, and a lot of other lesbian periodicals, but the lesbian news is my go-to for that kind of thing where they had so many advertisements for different bars in different eras. Because it was in print for over 40 years and is still online now but not in print anymore. It showed the bars throughout those decades from the 70s to the present day.

03:08.11
Marie Cartier
What are the holdings that the Mazer has overall? You have a building on Robertson next to the Abbey, with, if you live in the LA area, you may know the Abbey on Robertson, and the Mazer has a permanent space in a building next to the Abbey. But what are the holdings that the Mazer has?

03:32.96
Angela Brinskele
Well, we're not really next to the Abbey; we're actually like a block down from the Abbey. So, but the collections in the Mazer are very eclectic because when we first opened in 1981, we collected anything a lesbian ever touched. That was a lot of stuff. But just because you brought up the bars, specifically, I wanted to tell you. We just recently got the collection of Palm's Bar, which is, yes, a bar in West Hollywood for over 40 years. We have a giant liquor bottle that was kind of on display, you know, for advertising from the bar, and we have bar flyers that were on the walls. We have a pool cue. I love that, you know, and napkins and matches and things like that. So we're just getting to where we could process that, but it's... It's that recent. The most exciting thing from that collection, to me, is the women who saved those things took the piece of Stucco off the wall with the Palm sign on the wall.

04:48.16
Marie Cartier
Ah.

04:49.87
Angela Brinskele
And we're just trying to figure out how we're going to preserve that Stucco sign now.

04:56.56
Marie Cartier
Um, oh wow, a 40-year history.

05:00.55
Angela Brinskele
Yep, over forty years. I don't remember exactly, 43 maybe.

05:04.20
Marie Cartier
Well, I definitely spent some... a lot of time in the past, but that is so cool. What other interesting... um, Lesbian bar history is.

05:10.58
Angela Brinskele
She.

05:23.38
Marie Cartier
In the Mazer. I know some of Mazer's holdings are also at UCLA, correct? Maybe you could talk about that too.

05:31.52
Angela Brinskele
Yes, we have over a hundred collections at UCLA. We have a very unique agreement with them. Where they have our collections in perpetuity, based on an agreement we have. They are never to be allowed to be made to disappear, which is a saying we have said a lot historically in the lesbian community. We don't want our history to be made to disappear as it often has before. That's one of the conditions. It must stay in Los Angeles, and it must always be available for the public to see. So, over a hundred collections are there. Things like KEXUS and a lesbian group called SCW (Southern California Women for Understanding).

06:06.83
Marie Cartier
Um.

06:17.78
Angela Brinskele
And many, many more personal collections. Your collection is actually there as well, Dr. Marie Cartier, with your karate gi and your black belt, historical artifacts. But also other things that are bar-related. We do have a lot of flyers, mostly, and then we also have oral histories where women talked about the bars. Again, the further back you go, the less things were saved historically from bars. So some of the only history of some of the bars, especially if they didn't last 40 years, is personal testimony and oral histories by women who went there. It's really interesting to learn things about the bars. The 50s, 60s, 70s were all very different. In the 50s, women were allowed to own a bar, but they weren't allowed to pour liquor, so they couldn't be a bartender in their own bar. You know, that's not true at all today. So...

07:16.18
Marie Cartier
Um, I know that when I was doing research. Um, for my Ph.D., I listened to... You have quite a collection of... VHS tapes and different kinds of, you know, media, through the decades. And you have the equipment to be able to listen to that or view it if you're at the Mazer Archives. Um, I know I listened to a tape of, I think it was four women talking about bars back "in the day." Now, that tape was probably done in the 90s, but they were talking about bars from like the late... I think the early 60s. Do you remember that tape? In fact, I think you... we found that tape and maybe even watched it together.

08:06.53
Angela Brinskele
Yeah, I think we did. I remember Barbara Kailash was in it, and her wife, Christina, videotaped it. I remember a couple of other people I didn't know, and Daganya actually kind of hosted it and introduced it at the beginning.

08:15.82
Marie Cartier
Over.

08:22.62
Angela Brinskele
It's a VHS tape, and, um, we haven't gotten rid of VHS tapes because we were told by experts that they may be more stable than digital material today. So, even though we have digitized that tape, we are keeping the VHS tape as well.

08:31.84
Marie Cartier
Um.

08:39.34
Angela Brinskele
And you're right. We do have different... We even have a Beta player to play those tapes. But the things that we don't or we're not able to play, that's what we really lean on UCLA for because they have a lot of technology to digitize and to play some of those things that we can't play anymore. We have no equipment for 60s, you know, super eight films, for example.

09:05.79
Marie Cartier
So, I remember that was so cool, you and I sitting in the Mazer listening to those women talk about the memories of being in the bar, you know. Um, if somebody wants... to have that similar experience, to come in and put their hands on some original flyers, to listen to women talking about the gay bars, what's the process of actually experiencing some of this archival material personally?

09:44.83
Angela Brinskele
Well, usually, you can just email us or call us and make an appointment to come in. We're really opened only on Tuesdays right now. We're going to reopen for Sundays again sometime soon. But because of COVID, we really cut back on the limited hours we already had. So you can call and email, make an appointment, and usually when people do that, we ask them, "What do you want to see?" so we can set up things like that. That bar tape you're talking about has been digitized now. Sometimes when a researcher...

10:12.73
Marie Cartier
Um.

10:18.83
Angela Brinskele
Can't make it to the archives, we can give them limited access to seeing it online. But there is nothing like coming into the archives and seeing the real flyers that were in the bars or on the walls at the time. I mean, it's really unique. And, you know, that's what archives are about: one-of-a-kind things you can't find anywhere else and originals from those bars, all over for years and years, and now they're scarce, right?

10:47.16
Marie Cartier
Yeah, so to do that, you would look up June Mazer Lesbian Archives.

10:57.62
Angela Brinskele
Yes, actually, if you googled "lesbian archives," the June Mazer Lesbian Archives always comes up at the top, maybe within the first three things on the search. So, but our web address is www.mazerlesbianarchives.org, and you can also email us at contact@mazerlesbianarchives.org.

11:23.52
Marie Cartier
Wow! So cool. We have a few minutes left, Angela, and, you know, this Dyke Dive, last call because there are so few Dyke Dives left, right? That's why we're so happy to have you here today, talking about the ephemera that's left. But while we have you here, do you have a favorite lesbian bar memory that you'd like to share?

11:50.52
Angela Brinskele
Um, honestly, I had the best time ever in the early 80s going to the K in Long Beach, which is the Kyarrasera, and I went every week and I saw Melissa Etheridge play every week, sometimes twice a week. And nobody knew who she was except in that bar. We didn't even know her last name at the time. Now, she's a very famous, very talented rock star, right? But I remember when her album was coming out, she told us her last name, and everybody was like, "Ooh, weird," because we only knew her as Melissa. And I love that bar, the K, and it's still in existence. The building's still there. It's still called the K, which is really unusual, still called K Sarasara, but it's no longer a lesbian bar. So that was one of my favorite memories of lesbian bars back then. I brought...

12:29.67
Marie Cartier
Are...

12:44.22
Angela Brinskele
...all different friends from all over the United States to see her, and we went regularly, and it was such a great time.

12:51.51
Marie Cartier
I know I have brought friends there to see. Melissa's gold record is on the wall. Still there. It's still one of their claims to fame. And I think they do have lesbian nights, but I'm not sure. Um, when those are. But, yeah, the gold record is still... it. Do you have a specific memory of the gay bar, anything? Did you meet anybody in there, any fabulous night?

13:12.67
Angela Brinskele
Um, well, actually, one of my first girlfriends, I brought to the K, and, um, you know, it was just so surreal because I'd spent a lot of my young life in Orange County, what we called "behind the Orange Curtain," and only dreamt of being able to go to a lesbian bar with my girlfriend. So that was a really exciting experience to be able to take one of my first girlfriends there and watch Melissa sing and, um...

13:34.86
Marie Cartier
Um...

13:45.16
Angela Brinskele
...And a lot of people smoked back then, including my girlfriend at the time, so I remember that. But it all seems so romantic and really cool back.

13:52.20
Marie Cartier
Yeah, I... I agree. It did seem so romantic because we were all there, wherever you went, and, you know, wherever you went in a gay bar. It was like, "We're all here, right?" Whether or not really, you knew anybody or not, it's like, "Wow, we're all here."

14:05.80
Angela Brinskele
Right.

14:11.53
Marie Cartier
And it felt really, yeah, it felt really romantic to be in that place. Do you feel like visitors can get a taste of that by coming to the Mazer?

14:21.80
Angela Brinskele
I really think so because we have so much documentation of lesbian history itself, as well as the bars. So there's a lot of documentation of lesbian community flyers of things people did in the community. From the 60s, 70s, and places they went to just go and see other people like them, just to be able to feel comfortable being a lesbian. And that's really what the lesbian bars did for so many people historically. And even today, I think people are finding out how valuable they are and...

14:42.80
Marie Cartier
The...

14:57.70
Angela Brinskele
...And such a community space sometimes. So, I'm hoping that a lot of young people want to recreate that now that COVID maybe is waning. We'll see.

15:07.81
Marie Cartier
Um, so that is the Mazer Archives where lesbians live forever. Thank you, thank you so much, Angela, for joining us on the Dyke Dive.

15:58.25
Angela Brinskele
That's right.

16:05.70
Marie Cartier
Last call. Thank you. We hope to see you or hear you or be here, you, to hear us in another episode. Thank you so much, everyone, and we will talk to you again soon. Cheers, everybody.

16:05.75
Angela Brinskele
Um, it was a pleasure.

16:22.50
Angela Brinskele
Cheers, everybody.