Book Two is Better
A fantasy readthrough podcast with Avery and Travis. Bug us on Reddit/Twitter @BookTwoIsBetter, or email us everything you love or hate at booktwoisbetter@gmail.com
Book Two is Better
Of Darkness and Light by Ryan Cahill: Episode Two
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
ODAL Ch. 19-35.
"It is the stag who waits to drink last. That avoids the waiting wolf." These wise words from Alleron's mother frame an impeccable section of comfort fantasy filled with dragon fire, fake uncles, racism against elves, and our favorite character, ERDHARDT HAMMERSMITH.
Will Calen escape his torturous prison? Is the Druid book that Rist is reading important? Why did we not see Farda's jokes on screen? Who are these shapeshifter furries? Read on with us to find out the answers to all these questions and more.
Reach out with any comments or suggestions at booktwoisbetter@gmail.com or on Reddit/Discord @booktwoisbetter!
Arivadirchi.
SPEAKER_02Big Bang Theory's falling off.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, man. Season 3, episode 12, was peak and it's been downhill ever since.
SPEAKER_02It used to be peak. People want to act like it was never peak, but it was. Obviously. But now, mid.
SPEAKER_03That's why I'm all about young Sheldon.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's that that's that's cosby comedy. It's prestige comedy. A lot of people don't. It won't appeal to as wide of an audience because it's, you know. It's like Rick and Morty.
SPEAKER_03It's it's you have to have very, very high IQ. Do we have to look through do we have to look at the phrase cosby comedy in a new light? Like it is. There's two possible meanings to that.
SPEAKER_02Whichever one you think I mean is the one you mean. That's what I mean. Alright, cool. We'll leave it at that. Oh man. Welcome back. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. What are we doing? What the fuck are we doing, man?
SPEAKER_03It's a great question, man.
SPEAKER_02What's the meaning of all this? What's the meaning of life? Why are we here? The meaning is to read of Darkness and Light chapters 18 through 35. Wow.
SPEAKER_03That's the fastest we've ever introduced it.
SPEAKER_02I looked at the clock and we're only a minute in. I was like, there's a there's something to be done here.
SPEAKER_03I do think last episode was like 21 minutes. It was it was truly a modern day record.
SPEAKER_02Well, we had things to discuss. We're discussing the nature of art. I know, those really important. Whether you should uh what is it? Kill your loved ones. There's a saying. Never kill your heroes. Never kill your heroes. Meet them. Don't kill them. Meet them.
SPEAKER_03And hopefully we get to meet them at Dragon Steel convention. Please give us a press pass.
SPEAKER_02If anyone's listening, I know this is turning into us requesting an arc from Rocchio again. Um, but we would love to go to Dragon Steel Nexus. Um, we did uh I clicked a checkbox that said our content is consistent with their code of conduct. Um I think it's which I was unable to read because the hyperlink was broken, but I'm sure that our show is exactly in line with um the Dragon Steel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay. This is church approved. It it is the the church of everywhere, you know. Yeah. Stop saying my name.
SPEAKER_02What's wrong with you? I forgot about that.
SPEAKER_03Stop eating chiga in the middle of our No, it's ice cream.
SPEAKER_02Sea salt with caramel ribbons.
SPEAKER_03I thought you were eating like a cottage cheese bowl. Kafir. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what uh that's the word I was actually going for. Um okay, I I saw a bit on a podcast the other day, and I'm curious what you actually think about it. It was quizzing non-lawyers with questions from the bar exam.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's fun.
SPEAKER_03I thought that was kind of cool. I thought that was fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's good. Because depending on subject matter, the answer is either very intuitive or do the opposite of what feels right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. The the fun one that I watched was it was like a scenario where a kid signs a legally binding contract and then just doesn't do anything and the person sues them. And it turns out if you're a kid, contracts don't matter.
SPEAKER_02They don't matter, baby. Unless they do. There's a weird okay. If any lawyers are listening, just know that I'm going from bar exam preps several years ago. But as I recall, there's like a there's like one exception to this, which is if a child makes a contract like for essenti like life essentials. There's some term for it, but like if they like desperately needed a car or housing or food or whatever, you can absolutely haul their ass to court and make them like pay or whatever. Wow. But if it's some some stupid bullshit, you can't. It's like a really counterintuitive thing. That's fascinating.
SPEAKER_03I think the example in this case was a motorcycle, so we're safe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that feels not. I mean, unless it's a fury road situation. Could be essential. Torts, though, is usually pretty intuitive. It's like you were trying to juggle chainsaws and one of them fell on the baby. Like, are you liable for negligence?
SPEAKER_03Maybe only somebody would write a legal fantasy novel. Wouldn't that be great?
SPEAKER_02If there are any agents. Who is if our audience is not an if there are no agents, lawyers, dragon steel convention promoters, who are you guys? Who are who are we making the show for? This is pure this is for kickbacks. Why do you think we have all these corporate sponsors? Um, okay. One quick bit, and then uh let's talk about this book, baby. Boo-boo. Okay. You know Rick Beato? No. Okay. Well, he's like a cranky man yelling at cloud, uh, YouTube music guy. He's actually quite a successful record producer, nice, very accomplished jazz musician. And he just like posts videos of him listening to the top 10 songs on Spotify and saying, like, man, ACDC is so much better than these guys. It's like it's weird because like his credentials are like kind of unquestionable. He's an incredible musician, but he really is like wants rock music back.
SPEAKER_03He just loves the the big ball song by ACDC that I loved in seventh grade. What is that one? The biggest bulls of them all.
SPEAKER_02Did you see the that vine that was like, all right, we got our we got our name ACDC. Now we just need to figure out who's gonna sing.
SPEAKER_04He's like, I don't know! Could be anyone of what?
SPEAKER_03Oh let's we gotta bring Vine back, man. Vine was so much better than TikTok. Was it? I don't know. It was good, it was perfect for me.
SPEAKER_02It was like a little less evil, but I feel like they're probably equally funny. It felt more innocent, man. It felt a lot more innocent. Our uh plot summaries today does feature a quote from a Vine.
SPEAKER_00So Free Shavakadu.
SPEAKER_02Free Shavakadu. Road work ahead. I sure hope it does. Okay. Um, which leads nicely into Rick Beato was talking about um he was just listing off uh the top selling records of 21st century. And it was fascinating. Um, so I want to see how many of the top five you can guess. I gave you a couple seconds to think about this before we hit record. Um so why don't you maybe list off three-ish, and I'll tell you if they're on there.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Okay, I'm thinking of okay, and this is just one record. This isn't like cumulative artist sales.
SPEAKER_02One album. One banger album with nothing but hits.
SPEAKER_03Um I am thinking about graduation.
SPEAKER_02I'm trying to see if that's even okay. It's not in like the top 40. Okay. Oh, okay. Uh T Swift. That album was everywhere though. I mean, yeah. You can't You're just gonna say, what, just like a Taylor Swift Subscribe. Okay, it looks like there is a Taylor Swift album in at number 11. Okay, okay. Um 1989. We never go out of style.
SPEAKER_03Um This is a hot take, but I feel like this sold a lot because of my experience going to Best Buy as a kid. Uh Eminem. Like, is it real Slim Shady or is it the Eminem show? I can't remember.
SPEAKER_02My name's Eminem. You girl want an Eminem, so I gave an Eminem. Um Bazinga. The Eminem, I'll give it to you. The Eminem show. Number two. What's the 27 million?
SPEAKER_03Because I remember it was like sold out all the time at Best Buy. It was like the number one album that you wanted as a kid.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's the red one.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Um Okay, let me give I give one more guess here. I'm trying to think if there's like a good like a rock band or something that would be that would sell enough for this.
SPEAKER_02Do you want a hint?
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_02Moms love this shit. Uh the goo goo dolls. There was um in college, I was like writing for the Carlton comedy paper, and I had a list of like top five songs to clear a dance floor. And on that list was Slide by the Goo Goo dolls. Which is I wanted to include it because it's quite up tempo, and you might think I could get down to slide. I'd defy you. Try, put it on, wiggle that ass. Nothing. There's no rhythm, there's no groove. You know what the outro is gonna be now. Why won't you slide, man? That is there's no funky bass line in slide. Okay. Um I I'm satisfied that. Like, that's pretty good.
SPEAKER_03That's more than I think you would have thought I would have got.
SPEAKER_02So, number five with 20 million units sold from the UK, Amy Winehouse, Rest in Peace, Back to Black.
SPEAKER_03Really? I mean, I I love that that's there. It's an amazing album.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, it's a wild one, just because like I don't know if that was her debut, but that that sort of, at least when I was that age, that felt like it was out of fucking nowhere, and then she was everywhere. Right. Um number four with 22 million units sold, also from the UK, Adele 25. Oh, I should have thought about that. An album she wrote when she was 25.
SPEAKER_03I there was part of me that was like, where are the Ed Sheeran Adele's of the world here? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All of his albums that are just like addition, subtraction, division. Um okay, number three. This is the one that had me, frankly, gobsmacked. With 27 million units sold from the United States, Nora Jones come away with me. Do not discount the power of Starbucks record sales.
SPEAKER_03When you said gobsmacked, I thought you were gonna say gobsmacked by Huba Stank.
SPEAKER_02And uh hot dog flavored water and starfish shit. What is that album? Hot dog flavored and starkissed starfish?
SPEAKER_03It it's something like it's in the same vein as tub thumping with chumbawomba in my mind. Wow. Uh the also side note, the guys I played golf with on Sunday, all like deep Long Islanders with the accents that you think of, just only played Creed nickel back. They have no idea that Creed is having a moment. No, they were they were aware. They're like, there's some memes about this, and I love them, and I love Creed.
SPEAKER_02It's like, wow, Creed's back, finally. I've been playing Creed this whole time. I was I was putting the other day, and a guy pulled up his old ass Mercedes parts next to the putting green, not in a spot, opened all the doors and cranked his fucking stereo and put on Steely Dan. I was like, oh my god. That's kind of nice. This this is like the this is the best. And then there were people next to me that were like kind of whispering to themselves, like, it's kind of fucking loud. It's like, shut the fuck up, Peg is on.
SPEAKER_03Let him live. Wait, okay, what's the number one?
SPEAKER_02Stop edging me. Yeah, because Eminem was to Eminem and M was two. And number one, Adele, 21. Rollin in the Deep.
SPEAKER_03Is that one? Is that the name of an album?
SPEAKER_02Uh no. All her albums are just like her age. 21, 25. Oh, I see. I see what you mean. Adele 73 is gonna fucking rock.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's gonna be sick. That's bro. I mean, four of the five of those I I never would have gotten. Nora Jones out of out of nowhere.
SPEAKER_04Rolling in the ibuprofen! Stop making music.
SPEAKER_03Okay, but there was that period where Nora Jones comedy, man. Norah Jones was like in rom-coms. Like she was in all the biggest, like either as a performer or like music. But there was one where it was like they went to a Norah Jones concert, I remember. I don't remember which one that was.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Nora Jones and Rush. I think here's the deal. Here's the thing. What happened to BS? You gotta sell shit to women. Everyone's marking things to men. I'm saying women are putting their money where they're they're buying those Adele records.
SPEAKER_0330 million women. And that's why our listener demographic is 91% male.
SPEAKER_02No, we're doing this segment for the ladies.
SPEAKER_03Should we do a for the ladies segment? Yo, that would be great. Where we talk about the handsome men of the Oval.
SPEAKER_02I actually started watching. There's like a new uh heated rivalry adjacent show on Prime called Off Campus. Oh. And I there's got to be some sort of measure that's like time to ripped ass. And it was under a minute before uh Graham Garrett, future NHL star, was uh seen in the showers. Ass out. Just a perfect booty. Yeah, and his soon-to-be love interest is she's doing laundry in the room, and then she whoa walks in, sees that ass. You know what he does? He just turns around. It's like you need to move. What a power move. I would have gone like hands, you know, hands over crotched, knees kind of inward, that pose. Yeah. And then steam would have come out of my ears.
SPEAKER_03Man, I just had a flashback to high freshman year of high school, like week one. We all, you know, everyone's meeting each other. You all just got through puberty and everything. And a kid, it was like when pantsing was funny, you know, for all the classic reasons bullying is funny for the people that do it. Yeah. And a kid, a kid got he got pants like right in the middle of everyone coming off a lunch, except he was wearing basketball shorts, flying, fliing raw. And every everybody got a nice little nice little eyeful there.
SPEAKER_02I wonder, there's that lady on SNL who told this story. She did this to someone, and then people on the internet were trying to decide if she committed sexual assault.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it it was traumatizing for everyone involved. Was it Sarah Sherman? I think that told that story. She was the only SNL person I know.
SPEAKER_02Chloe Feynman? The problem is she was a camp counselor. She pants to pants to camp counselor.
SPEAKER_03Can't do that.
SPEAKER_02Can't be pantsing kids.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Uh that's 15 minutes, and we didn't talk about Philip Pullman. You're welcome. Listen. I have a proposal. I have a proposal. What? Let's just hit this fucking summary.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm I'm ready. This was all the perfect segue.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Yeah, this leaves pants leads nicely into well, some of our characters kind of getting pants. We'll get there. Okay. Uh summary of, I'm pretty sure, chapters 18 through 35 of Darkness and Light. The middle third of Of Darkness and Light sees our cast split into two groups. The first is getting kisses and, perchance, a bit of TNA. The second is getting killed andor chased by mythical beasts. But that's just life in Fane Mortem's America, isn't it? Kalen and Co. are in Drafane, which is one, extremely cold, two, generally racist against elves, and three, filled with giant freaky worms. Take this as your sign to get that boys' trip to Drafane out of the group chat. Great whisper. We get a bit more magic tutoring from Beryl, and after a truly bizarre conversation with his mother, Aleron cooks up a lovely plan to get Kaelin out on a boat of the Ever Snow. Unfortunately, his father, a sort of dark shadow of WWE hero Erdhard Hammersmith, is back in town and he's ready to kill some fucking teenagers. A high maid shows up with a powerful and sort of kinky set of magic handcuffs, and poof, Kaelin and Valeris are no more. Cue up that torture and rescue arc we were all waiting for. The first and weirdest of our rom com subplots sees Farda and Ella on their way to Italy. They escape an Urak, they escape an Urak attack in a town I can't remember the name of, and eventually reach Barona, where Operation Uncle finally comes to a conclusion. And thank goodness this particular Uncle is good at improv because Operation Uncle was truly a horrendous bit of planning. Unc takes Ella in and lets her know that she's been road tripping with a 400-year-old crazy person, which is somehow news. I guess the Briars are more of a brawn over brains kind of family. In other news, is there anything better than Pussy? Yes, a really good book. More specifically, Druids, A Magic Lost, a lovely book about magic that, if I had to bet, will be unlost in like 10 to 12 chapters. But Urax aren't the only thing he's gonna be fucking on. Enter Nira, Lascivious Minx, and Harlot. After a little bit of Wyrm's blood by the docks, Wrist gets that elusive first kiss. I kind of regret making fun of that guy who posted about getting an erection reading Red Rising because I am bricked up. Dane is back in his hometown, and in true hometown visit fashion, he gets hit up by his ex, who is not only a wyvern rider, she's a sexy Wyvern rider. And all Dane needs to do to get a little motion is climb a cliff and engage in a battle of wits with an actual wyvern. Men have done far more for far worse. In the odds and ends section of this recap, Dan is treated to story time from Theron that quickly turns into a Z-Way style gotcha interview. Tarmen is a model soldier and human, and I've never been so certain that someone is going to die. Dalin is being annoying in Dwarf Town, and Asen loves his dead dragon a lot more than his dead wife. The end. Listen, I swore under oath that our content was in accordance with the Dragon Steel Code of Conduct, and I've seen nothing to change that here. Yeah, no flaws from me. A book is better than pussy.
SPEAKER_03I mean, Dan was 50-50.
SPEAKER_02He was so torn.
SPEAKER_03And I understand.
SPEAKER_02Should I stay out?
SPEAKER_03Or go home and read.
SPEAKER_02Nothing good happens after midnight, man. That's what my mom always told me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Okay. So we gotta talk about the book now. I was kind of I want to talk more about Nora Jones.
SPEAKER_03Nora Jones. Where should we start, brother? Let's end with Kalen. Let's get our let's get the chuff out before the wheat. Okay, let's start with let's start with the chaff.
SPEAKER_02Let's talk about Dane, man. Dane. How are we feeling about Dane? Honestly, man, I thought Dane, strong entrance, very excited to see where he's going. And and I didn't, you know. This wasn't sucking me in.
SPEAKER_03I texted you that Dane might be my least favorite arc right now. And yeah. I think it will pick up. We're only getting some bits and pieces. And having read further a bit into part three, it does get it. Yeah, part three, this will be a different conversation. But I don't know, man. Like, I'm not super invested in the family drama. Uh he's a little too kind of like observant for I don't know. I have just some weird nitpicking with it. But also the section that we had for Dane in this part was also just a section that bothered me about side character introductions. So I'm conflating a little bit of those feelings together, to be honest.
SPEAKER_02As in too many?
SPEAKER_03As in a little too many and a little formulaic in the character introduction. And specifically, I will I was gonna ask what are you thinking of? I will pull my receipts of uh Juna and Thuram. Do you remember these fine creatures?
SPEAKER_02Uh no.
SPEAKER_03Even though I just reread this section. These were the guards when he first gets to the worm cave, who are posted to like keep track of him, that he gets drunk eventually and escapes up to get his nookie. Uh And his notes.
SPEAKER_02Oh, ew. No.
SPEAKER_03No. Um, but it it starts this like kind of formula where it's like, there are two people interacting with me. This is what their roles are in the society. This is what their names are. This is what they look like. And then you never see them again.
SPEAKER_02Goodbye. Could have been two guards.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And yeah, I was like, I was like, why are we why are we getting this like weird, very dense inner like descriptive introduction of them? Um, but I just noticed that kind of that popped up a few times throughout this section. Like all win was another one.
SPEAKER_02Um that is one I do remember.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I was I was a little like, oh, okay. I I don't I don't I'm getting a little uh boy cradwolf about investing in side characters right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Hey, we're 22 minutes and I can do it. That is like such a wheel of time thing. Like, there can't just be like an eye sedan who's hanging out. Yeah, like she needs to have at least a paragraph of clothing, hair and eye color, perhaps a backstory. Let's tell me where she's from.
SPEAKER_03Juno was a tall woman with dark brown hair tied in a braid that ran from the front of her head straight back through and down into a ponytail. Very wheel of time with the hair. Uh the sides of her head were shaved smooth, showing the black ink tattoos that spiraled from front to back, the markings of House Fakira. And then we get three sentences about her Kiris and her rings.
SPEAKER_02That's not my favorite hairstyle. I don't think it flatters anyone.
SPEAKER_03The Skrillix? The Skrillix ponytail. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. She had kind of a Skrillix thing going on. That's modern fantasy. That's what I want her reading. That would be funny as fuck. Just like in the context of a whole series like this, have one wildly anachronistic reference. Yeah, he was kind of like the Tucker Carlson of this city. Anyways. What?
SPEAKER_03Um that's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_02All right. Another thing to pitch to Kyle.
SPEAKER_03Dane, Dane was, yeah, but this was interesting. I mean, we get besides the also oddly detailed Brimlock sap section of his narrative. Yeah, that was bizarre. We get some good context on how dickish the Empire has been to Volterans, which it justifies this rebellion. Um, and we learned that a a a wyvern is a large the size of a large war horse.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Which was helpful. No fire. No fire. As far as I can tell. No fire. Um yet. Yet. But today, man, we gotta pull up that wyvern chart from last episode. I think it's like there it has their cooldown time for stings. I can't listen to you read that chart to me. That is some of the worst podcasting we've ever done. I'd love to edit that. I I this is something we've talked about. Oh, we talked about this a lot in Rocchio. Like, sometimes it felt like he didn't have a great sense of what was most interesting to the reader about his story. And I'm feeling that a little bit with Dane because Dane has this whole wonderful, mysterious backstory I know we're gonna get, and I kind of wish we were getting a little quicker. We're just like I feel like right now he's being so defined by his interactions with the rebellion and his family and stuff that it's almost like he doesn't have a distinct sense of self in the way, like, you know, I was thinking about like the way Kalen, Dan, and Wrist were introduced. Like they have such distinct vibes and personalities, like I could describe them to you. I can't I feel like I would just amount to like, oh yeah, he was banished and what, but like I don't know what he's like really. Yeah. Maybe there's nothing. Some people are boring.
SPEAKER_03So that point, I almost wonder if this whole arc would be more interesting if it was from Alina's perspective. Um she's kind of she's kind of cool. She's kind of badass. Kind of badass. We need some more female leads in this book, but um, yeah, that's pretty much it with Dan. I mean, is there only one? Yeah, it's just Ella.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Fascinating. Because we have is that truly the only female POV we've gotten? I guess if we go back to the fall.
SPEAKER_03The fall is really the only one, though. Yeah, yeah. I've I've seen a little commentary on it online. I haven't looked too deep because I I've been trying to avoid meta commentary on the whole series at this point. But yeah, no, it is it's pretty male dominant. Um interesting.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, you think we're s thank god we got Alron's mom in the fold. I'm sure she's gonna be really important moving forward. Um I can't wait to get into that. Yeah, that's fun. We're gonna have to do a little reading series. Yeah. Um, do we have more to say about Dane? I There's so much I want to say because frankly, right after this section, there's some fun ass stuff with Dane. Right. But, you know, for another day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think we save that for part three because this is all just set up for him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um climbing to the cave for his rendezvous was nuts.
SPEAKER_03That was that was pretty funny.
SPEAKER_02It was needlessly dangerous. It was so unnecessary. He was like doing cliffhanger shit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. He was Alex Honnell. Yeah, he had the like Tom Cruise mission impossible where he's just hanging one-handed off the cliff.
SPEAKER_02And then she just kind of let that wibre and fuck with him. She could have called it off.
SPEAKER_03I love that. I mean, respect. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's what I do with Billy.
SPEAKER_03Billy. Yeah, let him lick you. Can we talk about the knights? I just want to talk about the knights. Let's talk about the knights.
SPEAKER_02They rock. I think they see the world the same way we do, which is maybe a hundred of us aren't gonna save the world from calamity. Right. Maybe we need a couple more.
SPEAKER_03I like actually really liked the argument they made. He's like, when the sky is falling, it's not enough just to try to hold it up. You should probably stop prevent the sky from falling in the first place. Preventative medicine. That's important.
SPEAKER_02Go see your family doctor.
SPEAKER_03Apple a day, man. Um, I had a thought reading this section, which is that surely the best way to train for fighting demons in the real world is not to just beat the shit out of each other and then go to the healing pool every day. Why not? It works perfectly. Aren't they gonna take like completely unnecessary wounds in battle? They're like sparring and letting each other just like slash the shit out of themselves. They're like, ah, let's go sit in the hariah pool. We'll be good by tomorrow.
SPEAKER_02Listen, they've been at this for 400 years. And though their tracker record isn't great, I trust them. I I want to know what they've done well. That's what that's the story I want. I want a novella covering the sort of the goofy foibles of the Knights of Acheron post-fall. I want like a Pratchett-inspired Acheron novel. I feel like they were just zooming around like the axle on this man's wagon broke.
SPEAKER_03Just the fairy godmothers. Yeah. But uh the society we get a really interesting take on their society here, which is like the village that can never leave, which is attached to the outside of the temple. That is a little nuts.
SPEAKER_02And some people being like, I bet they're happy. But they love it. Surely none of them want to do something else with their lives.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm I'm a little confused by the way that they fit into society, to be to be honest. Like, I know where do they get their tips? How was that one knight walking around with Ella when they like live in a secret cave? I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I feel like this could really be strengthened by just like a couple throwaway lines of dialogue of people. Why don't you just have Dan say some shit? And you're like, what's up with those knights? Are they real? Or you know, just like it anything to know what the common people think. Like, how well known are they? Are they like mythic at this point?
SPEAKER_03Or we needed like a Theron paragraph when he was barding. I love Theron in the Grove. Uh by the way. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03He's great.
SPEAKER_02Well, what's his name? Arda? Ardazar. Ardazar hot dumb idiot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Or Arden. Arden. Yeah. Farda. Alright, we gotta. There's another note. The names need to be more different. We can't have Dane and Dalin and Damon and Arda and Farda.
SPEAKER_03Well, we had Korick and Lakir, but then they they, you know. Tough.
SPEAKER_02We got and well, we got Baird now.
SPEAKER_03Baird. Well, okay. Well, we're talking about names.
SPEAKER_0220 minutes on Baird.
SPEAKER_03You know who we fucking have that we haven't talked about? It's Erdhart Hammersmith. Let's get into him, man. God. Talk about a dead wife. Oh, that was so sad. That was very sad. That was a really It was wild. I thought that was a really well-written chapter, by the way.
SPEAKER_02It was a r as someone who has said recently, I'm kind of not liking fight scenes, that was fun as hell.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. A lot of emotion, a lot of like well-written fighting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I just man, I just I'm just kind of ride or die for Redhard at this point. I I would take him 1v1 versus all of the knights of Acheron. That's not 1v1.
SPEAKER_03If he doesn't become a knight, I will crush him.
SPEAKER_02I need him to be in the story.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02I need him to be around. Yes. Yeah. Um that was interesting that Kalnbar showed up in person. I know. I know he's I just didn't know if like run of the mill attack was something they're gonna send the idiots off to.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, I mean he's getting getting in the mix. Well, you only have a hundred guys, like you know, they're pretty spread thin. I think that's some of the the notes here um for their their whole disagreements as a tribe.
SPEAKER_02But hey, throw some time on my calendar, it's up to date. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But no, I I do think this was a very good chapter. This was like it humanized the indecision of the knights. Yeah. And that the consequences of that indecision. And like, what have they done? What have they done for the world, man? All they do is show up, somewhat fail.
SPEAKER_02Two notes, because I know I'm gonna forget them. One, this was also nice because I think we were sort of joking about in book one that uracs show up and then they just leave the village and we never hear about it again. Yeah. So glad we brought it back around. That's nice. Still a problem. Two, completely forgot the second one. Oh no, okay. Where are these uracs coming from?
SPEAKER_03Okay, this is a question that will be consistent through all of these different things. Is Urax are popping out of fucking nowhere. They're attacking in cohesion, not like just raping. How are they born? Who's leading them? I guess the shamans lead them, but like how do what are their orders? That's what I wonder.
SPEAKER_02What do they dream about? What kind of world do they want to build?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Who are they voting for? Right? Peanut butter or jelly. It's sort of interesting because I don't think anyone fucks with the Urax at this point. No. We've seen all the like the mages in the battle tower with wrists, they're not into it, and they're aligned with Fain. The dragon dragon guard hates them. Yeah. Although, I mean, that was they talked about this at the end of the fall, right? Where they turned on the Urax because they're they don't take orders.
SPEAKER_03They broke the but who is giving them orders? Is it the evil god? I guess is what we're gonna get to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's the quest. Well, either evil god just like created a demon race and is like, well, they are here and they can breed, so you guys deal with them. Or Fane becomes a good guy, they kill the traitor god. Now, I mean there's more options than that, but yeah, I want to know what other evil is at work, or is it just that like they got these critters that can reproduce and they kill?
SPEAKER_03That was very strength of the few. You know, meet your meet your enemy, become become the hero.
SPEAKER_02Become friends with your enemy. Yeah, no longer an enemy.
SPEAKER_03Zombie army. Uh but yeah, this this was this was good. I'm excited to get something more about the knights because they're kind of my comic relief right now.
SPEAKER_02They are they are the best.
SPEAKER_03And there's something nice about reading like guards, guards, and men at arms, and then reading about the knights. And I just I can't help thinking.
SPEAKER_02I would say the way that we're perceiving the knights may not be the way that Cothill wanted us to perceive the knights. I don't think so. I will say, I know they're gonna be heroic in the end. Sure. But right now, it's spoofs and goofs. Spoofs and goofs. Because Arden is saying shit like, there's no place for politics in the Knights. Shut the God, you're dumb. Think. Use the brain.
SPEAKER_03Speaking of spoofs and goofs, switching gears, Farda tells some jokes.
SPEAKER_02Well, farda might be crushing. Bro, farta got feelings, he's deep in it. Finally, an age gap couple. The Cosby method. There, this Cosby comedy. There we go. It's back.
SPEAKER_03But I'm so upset that Farda's jokes were off screen. He's like, Yeah, farta was cracking some really hilarious ones.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, but the hell is like, man, when he wasn't flipping a coin and being insane, honestly, good hang. Pretty funny guy, you know. Yeah. This is awesome. This is an awesome thing. I like this section a lot. Because Farda's just like such a I don't know. He's a hand grenade that the pin can be pulled at any amount. Such a little freak. Yeah. Doesn't seem like he doesn't want to be a freak, but he he's he it's in his blood, man. He's got that freak blood.
SPEAKER_03And I couldn't, I couldn't convince myself. Like, I was taking notes and I'm like, why is he delaying? Like, why is he just stringing along, Ella, for this journey? Because he they you know, there's like all that backstory. Like, he cannot feel, he feels no emotion, fate is his guide. So I was uh I was actually surprised by the developments here.
SPEAKER_02I I feel like I was in denial.
SPEAKER_03I was like, I'm picking this up that there might be something, but surely no. Yeah, that's more like I was like, there must be a different plan here.
SPEAKER_02Like, and then when it came true, I was like, all right, yeah, completely grounded, just didn't think that's where it was going. Right. I mean, it makes sense. Man, I I desperately want to talk talk about Operation Uncle, but in sequence we must talk about the Urak attack.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Uh, when did Ella become a swordswoman who can kill five Uracs?
SPEAKER_02I'm wondering if it's just like everyone from the the Glade is just they got Viking blood and they're strong.
SPEAKER_03Uh the Grove, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Um Baldur's Gate 3, which you refuse to play.
SPEAKER_03I then refuse. It's just summer now, and I have to save it for winter. Winter RPG? Yeah. Winter is for RPGs, summer is for outside.
SPEAKER_02No RPGs when you're not depressed.
SPEAKER_03No, I play 20 minutes of Rocket League twice a week. That's all I need. Ball pit. Ball pit. Ball X Pit.
SPEAKER_02If I want to put myself into something like a coma.
SPEAKER_03Yes. The Urrax are everywhere. Ella's smacking people, wolf boys smacking people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Fenear is like. Should he be this deadly? Because how big is he? Like a like a mastiff? He's not quite a war horse. He's not a war horse. He's not a war horse. He's not the size of what was it? The size of a souple? What was the thing we're saying last?
SPEAKER_03Oh man. But he's the biggest goddamn dog you've ever seen in your life. Incorrect. Tarman sees a bigger one. That's true. But Tarman seems like a human wolf. Yeah, he sees a furry.
SPEAKER_02What's up with that?
SPEAKER_03Man, the whole like Ongan shapeshifter furry wolf situation is gonna be really confusing. No, I must take my fursona.
SPEAKER_02Fersona five. Surprise. Persona six out. Fursona one in. Oh man. You can still date your teacher.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the the Urux, the Urux attack, they beat him up, and they go to Italy. Successfully.
SPEAKER_02Vorona, Italy. Hop, skip, and a jump. I have two thoughts. They make it there.
SPEAKER_03I have two thoughts about the city. One, somebody needs to invent a form of identification. Because every farda just walks up and he's like, Yeah, a motherfucking farda. You wanna die? Bitch, what if I kill you? They don't know what he looks like. He just he just says it confidently. There's no identification here. El Ella can lie about her identity. Farda can lie about his anyway. That's that's my thing. Somebody needs to build an ID card. And then the second, I don't know if you noticed this, but the towers of Barona are comically large.
SPEAKER_02Well, let me uh let me read you the section that I just pulled up before you said this. It's a description of Barona. Enormous rectangular towers with open tops jutted above sections of the wall, climbing higher and higher into the sky as though attempting to scrape the clouds.
SPEAKER_03And then as they walk, he's like, and then that tower is just kept getting higher and higher.
SPEAKER_02Bigger, and the walls got taller, and tires, towers are above those. There were banners with colors, and merchants selling spices and soap.
SPEAKER_03Man, did he just I'm tier listing Cahill City's director is still like AS tier?
SPEAKER_02Bel devoir AS tier.
SPEAKER_03Barona is like a we're in the D's, my man. I'm sorry. I feel like it's only S or D. So far, so far.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Because every city that's not Belduvoir or Duractor, Dickadeka is a completely generic walls and towers place.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, this is literally towers. It's all we hear. Yeah. He wants to talk about freaking Jan and Toram's backstory in the caves of the warms or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Take all that creative energy and divert it towards cooler cities, which I know are in your brain. Yeah. Okay, Operation Uncle. There had to be a better way. This was awesome. Could she not go to the Uncle first? Like in the mid-go in the middle of the night. I mean, she's kind of trapped with this guy.
SPEAKER_04Not really.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. He's scary. He killed her friend.
SPEAKER_02He's scary, but I think for that reason you should try to find the uncle first and hope that he doesn't like pick up your wink on your niece.
SPEAKER_03To be to make a counter argument to that, he is the high captain of the city guard, surrounded by other guards.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03To make a counter to my counter, there's no ID here. So she could have just said, I'm his niece, let me in.
SPEAKER_02She can drink wherever she wants. Yeah. I don't know, because you didn't. I just didn't get the sense you kept that tight of a leash on her. Like he definitely would have looked for her if she disappeared. Yeah. But like they slept apart. Like she went out, she's she's now a drunk.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Do shit together, Ella.
SPEAKER_03My only thought was that like when he eventually meets the old fucker Crane, the evil, evil guy. Yeah. It's like he's like, oh yes, you've been writing me daily notes about your comings and goings with this woman. So I'm like, okay, maybe he is actually taking keeping a pretty tight ship on this. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Do you have Unk's name written down? Goes man. Do I Okay. Well that's add that to the list of non-fantasy names.
SPEAKER_03Tanner. Tanner lacks. Tyler. Tanner. Uh Tanner catches on pretty quick, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Tanner's smart. Jesus. Um yeah, I was happy that this worked out for Ella. And like a very sweet scene, I actually thought, like, when Farda leaves and she sort of breaks down. It was really nice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it had been building for sure.
SPEAKER_02She's been through a lot, man.
SPEAKER_03She actually legitimately has. Like, I mean, she is on the other side of the world. You know, we'll we'll never really quite get back to the decision of not just going home when her husband dies. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's so far in the past that I don't even think about it anymore. Right. Like she's just on a quest, man. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Sean Turning. Uh, but Tanner is part of the resistance. And uh, as everyone else in the entire world is, he's friends with Asen.
SPEAKER_02Dude, Dead wife, Dead Dragon has not stopped this guy from befriending every person on the planet.
SPEAKER_03He is on your LinkedIn. He is liking every new job update you make.
SPEAKER_02We be seeing him frantically writing letters every time we see him. What how is he getting these out? How is he getting them? He's trapped in a cave. Is it the fresona people?
SPEAKER_03I want to know how trapped in a cave ass Asen is getting it letters out across his network.
SPEAKER_02Raven. I don't know, man. How are the Fursona people communicating? Do they got telepathy?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're crazy. I don't know about that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what's up with that? Um, okay, and then another. Did you see this coming? Farda knows exactly who Ella is.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. Do you saw that coming? I saw that. I know. I knew that was I knew he knew who she was.
SPEAKER_02Were we told that?
SPEAKER_03I believe it was like I don't know. I think he knew once they were on the ship together.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I guess I knew he knew something. Like he he kept asking her shit. Like he suspected something, but I didn't know that he had her completely clocked. Um if I did know that, then I would have been way more in on uh he got a crush on her theory.
SPEAKER_03That's why I was like, I was like, why is he delaying this? Like, what's the plan? Like he knows who she I didn't know if he was trying to like trap her into something, but like you're the world's like third most powerful mage. Go on.
SPEAKER_02And then uh badass moment, we get another coin flip. Yeah, to kill or not to kill. And how many it's like he's been he's been doing that every day. Yeah. Do you think that's something you could apologize for? And be like if she found out, you'd be like, okay, yeah, yeah. When we first started dating, I was flipping a coin about whether I should kill you every day, but I haven't done it in months.
SPEAKER_03No, that's a that's a deal breaker. That's like um, I asked you out on a dare or a bet or something, being the foundation of your relationship.
SPEAKER_02It was kind of a joke at first.
SPEAKER_03It was like, yeah, we all made fun of you, and I asked you out just to just to be funny for the guys. It's just because you're nine feet tall, which I love. Oh my god. Yeah, well, we get Yana at the end here, Tanner's lover, Tanner's lover, who will totally die in like three chapters.
SPEAKER_02She's done. She's done. Yeah. And return of character from the fall. Hello. Farwin. Shout out Farwin. She's an elf, she's still alive. I'm excited about that. Yeah, part of the order, right? Yeah, she's part of the order.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but yeah, I believe so.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Another person who I'd love to know what she's been up to for the past 400 years.
SPEAKER_03Uh everybody's four to nine hundred years old in this book. That's the that's the thing. It's either 18 or 400. 1738. Yeah. I was like, hey, world up, hello.
SPEAKER_02Um anything else on Ella and Ferda? No. Wrist. Boom! Magic. Magic. He's studying, he's reading, he's getting ass. That's cool.
SPEAKER_03Is that just the yeah, that I was gonna say that's just college.
SPEAKER_02That was your college. Yeah. Mine was mine was missing one of those elements.
SPEAKER_03When you're writing for the Carlton comedy gazette or whatever the hell you think about it.
SPEAKER_02The Carltonian was very funny. I don't tell you. Uh there was um, I know I've told you this off pod, but I think uh I think the listeners will enjoy this. Worked with this very kooky guy, my first job out of school, and he wrote for the University of Wisconsin at Madison paper. Was it the real paper, the real one that they try hard on? And he got them to add a game, a game section to the paper. It's all of his ideas was he did a word search that was in the shape of a smiley face. But uh, all of the words were like depression, self-harm.
SPEAKER_03Oh how how to know that somebody went to school that has hard winters? That's that's what it is.
SPEAKER_02I think he might have had depression. I got depression. Shout out mental illness. Okay, uh wrist. Uh training, huh?
SPEAKER_03His training is they shoot arrows at your face.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what the fuck? Don't fail this test. Holy shit. They keep telling him about how scary the trial is. It's like, okay, well, also not stopping this arrow could kill him.
SPEAKER_03So yes, the trials of will and faith for the circle of magi or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it's like a three-parter.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Does does this all feel a little like just rushed to you? No. Well, like two months of training, and now you're gonna be like a battle mage.
SPEAKER_02Listen, I think logically it might be rushed, but as a reader, I'm getting enough of it. Yeah. And I'm kind of ready to see this trial and then move on from that. I don't like I don't want two books of him studying the ways of the blade.
SPEAKER_03I agree with you. Like, I think there's a difference between my reader brain and rational brain. My reader brain is very happy. My rational brain's like, ooh, but yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_02I mean, they they did like Cahill knows this. Like, yeah, they have the line, like, war's coming. Like, we need more battle mages. So Cherish the Pain.
SPEAKER_03What's everything about like pain? Why do everybody has a pain? Yeah, it's pain before pleasure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this one's Cherish the Pain. Cherish the pain. What's Cahill into, man?
SPEAKER_02Pain is the path to strength.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. But then the Is that it? I highlighted it. Pain is the path to strength is for the knights, and Cherish the Pain is for the mages.
SPEAKER_02Is there another path to strength that doesn't involve pain? I would like that one. Nope. Did you know when people were going? This podcast is barely about the book. When people were going west for the gold rush, they had to cross them Rocky Mountains and also the plains states, which uh are fucking don't have any water and are really hot. And not very many people lived there. Anyways, and just like evidence that human nature never changes, people were publishing guidebooks about how to get to the West, having never been themselves. And basically there was one good one and one bad one. And if you bought the bad one, you died somewhere in the plains. And if you bought the good one, you probably made it. But it really just depended on which pamphlet you got. Isn't that fascinating?
SPEAKER_03So you're saying my how to get rich drop shipping YouTube tutorial isn't gonna get me rich.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_03That's actually that's kind of amazing.
SPEAKER_02You can't really hurt yourself doing that.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. What are we talking? Wrist. Okay.
SPEAKER_03There's no shot that the letters are real from his parents. They still feel so chipper. They have to be a lie now, right?
SPEAKER_02I'm still not sure, which I'm happy about.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Because I think whatever answer I get will be interesting. Yes. Um, I guess that letter was sent before Erdard Hammersmith ripped apart 400 Uraq. So we'll see if there are more letters after. Buff. Hitting 10. Imagic kind of easy to learn. Yeah, just pull those sparks. It doesn't take that long. Nothing. It's just like see the threads, pull them. Done.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, Caitlin learned it pretty fast too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it seems pretty intuitive. If you got it, you got it. If you don't, you don't.
SPEAKER_02Um, okay. Nera time. Hello. Anything to say? I was just thinking about it. I was like dying to discuss this, and now I kind of have nothing to say.
SPEAKER_03Well, I you the joke that you made in the summer encapsulated it person perfectly.
SPEAKER_02I know. We I sort of stepped on the lead.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, wait. Before Nira, Druids, a magic loss. Oh my gosh, yes. This is like so one of those things, if you've read a lot of fantasy books, alarm bells go off. You're like, yeah, this is not just a random book title he thought of. Yes. It has to be something.
SPEAKER_03We are gonna learn a lot about druids, and I'm hyped.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh that was making me think like we got a lot of fun magic going. We got blood magic, we got the threads, we got likely druids coming. Um, also, we learned that the runes are a jotnar creation that like only Fein Mortem has ever figured out how to do as a human. No one else can do it. There's just a bunch of yeah, we got like five solid magic systems.
SPEAKER_03There's only like two jotnar left, right? Like Ossias and his friend. That's all. Isn't that is that was I wrong? I I just don't know. I might be I might be totally wrong. But anyway, there's not a lot of them.
SPEAKER_02That would be nuts. I hope that's not true. I hope that's true.
SPEAKER_03They seem nice. They seem really cool. Okay. But yeah. Good job, uh, good job, wrist, with the the kissing and everything. Well done.
SPEAKER_02This is the only way a nerd ever gets down.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, just get handheld, like led straight to the bottom.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like some woman has to really like you.
SPEAKER_03Just hi, you're gonna drink alcohol with me now, and then you're gonna stop talking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because he never would have gotten this done on his own. No chance.
SPEAKER_03No. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Good for him. Good for him. I know. Um, and reappearance of our favorite beverage. Wormsblood.
SPEAKER_03Worms blood.
SPEAKER_02Wormsblood. We know that we're saying that word wrong, by the way.
SPEAKER_03I know.
SPEAKER_02It's John Gwen thing. Not saying that for the for the listeners.
SPEAKER_03It's a callback. And also, I play Wormspan, so I know how to say it.
SPEAKER_02Wormspan. Yeah. He's bred dragons in three different habitats. Yeah. Don't at me. Alright. Cool. Um okay. Just because I feel like we didn't do this justice. Well no, I have more I want to say. Kind of risky going out. They're like, yeah, just burn the spark from yourself, and yeah, you'll be hung out to dry like a fish.
SPEAKER_03Getting the spark burned out of you sounds not great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I just like would not sneak out to go drink worm's blood on the dock. No, but you would have at that age. If they were like, they'll literally kill you.
SPEAKER_03The hot girl takes you to to drink worm's blood, man. You're still doing it.
SPEAKER_02I'm going back. I'm reading that book, man. Yeah. I'm a coward.
SPEAKER_03No, I've I have faith in you. You'd figure it out. You'd drink that you'd get the spark and dad. The reason I feel confident saying that is that like kids in go to like military school and sneak out all the time. Like it's not obviously they don't get like killed for it, but like people still I think that's sort of my point.
SPEAKER_02Is if they were gonna get killed.
SPEAKER_03People still smoke weed in Singapore, you know, like risks are taken.
SPEAKER_02There was a kid in my class year who got a full bright scholarship and got it taken away because he tried to fly um like in Japan with weed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, don't do that, man.
SPEAKER_02Got put in prison.
SPEAKER_03I did smoke a joint in Tiananmen Square once. Like out of respect? Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. For the falling. There you go. Okay, actually, that is like I'm done with this.
SPEAKER_03I'm done with wrist. But how do you feel then? Transition about Belina Luna.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't read that.
SPEAKER_03You clearly didn't reread the section.
SPEAKER_02No, I skimmed it.
SPEAKER_03Because Belina Luna is the woman that Yvonne introduces Dalin to at the end of their three pages together in this section. That is correct. I completely forgot about that. Belina Luna, who I looked it up, was the Narvonin bard in the glade the night after the hunt. Of course. Of course. Yes. But actually, I do if if this person's being introduced and was also like, I don't know, I do think this was actually going to be a character. That was my one. I I completely agree.
SPEAKER_02I just like it's it's another like Aleron coming back. Like, that's not a shoe I was waiting for.
SPEAKER_03I was pumped. That was my that was my research. And that's also the only thing that happens with Dolan, so we can move on from that.
SPEAKER_02Another Italian.
SPEAKER_04Another Una hits ya.
SPEAKER_03The echo cancellation could not have stopped that. Uh all right, we've got one more side quest before we get to the main events. Uh, the Durac Door, the Diddy Dickadick squad.
SPEAKER_02Dickadicka. Well, unfortunately, we also have to talk about Theron's story time.
SPEAKER_03He's in this part.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, I forgot two Dick. I keep having a hard time remembering where Theron is. Well, and I want him to be with Kalen. He's with Asen.
SPEAKER_03And I know the the what's weird to me about this right now is also that Asen is like the string across everyone, every single character, but he's barely in the section.
SPEAKER_02Is that by design, he's a string puller?
SPEAKER_03He's like so important that he'd spoil a story. Because he's he's gonna be like Daddy Lordrop, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, they are he's getting humanized when we see him, though. Like oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay, my one thought on him though, you're totally right. He does get humanized. He has the fight with Dalin and uh with his bad kid. Yeah, his bad kid, but like I know being a parent's hard. Is it that hard to say you're proud of your kid every once in a while, man? It would solve so many problems here. No, my grandma's crazy. Crazy.
SPEAKER_02You dare, you dare to ask me to tell you I'm proud of you on this, the 400th anniversary of my dragon dying. I have a lot on my plate.
SPEAKER_03Um, someone else feels a lot on their plate is whiskey chugging Damon.
SPEAKER_02Damon's feeling like a liability.
SPEAKER_03Damon's feeling like an idiot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he might just be an idiot.
SPEAKER_03Which kind of sick. Which was heavily foreshadowed, but yeah, but he had a hot start. He was like looking like a good ruler for five years.
SPEAKER_02He gave a rousing speech. Yeah. Now it's just looking kind of bad there, and I think the dwarves are gonna kick them out. So yeah. Damon. Dalin, I have no clue what to do with. No. He just I guess he has his like moment of autonomy, and he decides he's not gonna go look for Galen. He feels like his his duty is with Damon, which for kind of reasons make sense.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because he needs someone back there.
SPEAKER_03Felt rational coming straight off an assassination attempt. Straight up. Yep. Um, how do you feel about the meeting?
SPEAKER_02Which one?
SPEAKER_03The big like political meeting where uh the shapeshifter shows up.
SPEAKER_02The persona.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I just really want to know more about these freaky people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um out of nowhere, man.
SPEAKER_02Other than just someone said that they were gonna go get a shapeshifter, and now they're here and they know everything.
SPEAKER_03They know where Kalen is, they know what's going on.
SPEAKER_02I feel like they're like the sleepless from Stormlight.
SPEAKER_03That's what kind of what it reminds me of. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Maybe they have like a hive mind or something.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I just don't know how on earth they knew that Kalen was there.
SPEAKER_03I know. I mean, if they can shape shift into animals, maybe they can be like crows and stuff and fly. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Turns into an osprey.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he can go and get there real fast.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of, watched Hoppers last night.
SPEAKER_03How good was that movie?
SPEAKER_02Uh it's anti-highway. Didn't like it. Yeah. I'm big, big pro development. So, you know. Yeah, you know me, man. More highways. We love LA. You do love your developers. I'll stand by it. LA actually does not have enough highways. They got like two.
SPEAKER_03I think more lanes solves everything.
SPEAKER_02We need we don't need more lanes. We need more than one highway that goes east-west. I mean, yeah, trains would be great too, but they can't just be one highway that goes east-west in a town of 10 million people. It's called sunset, man. Just take that. Take a surface street with two lanes and lights every four steps.
SPEAKER_03God, I just got PTSD from driving a month ago in LA. Ugh.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Can we talk about story time?
SPEAKER_03Yes. Faron.
SPEAKER_02This was a setup. Don't say you want to hear the story if you're just gonna use it as a platform to say fuck you to the storyteller.
SPEAKER_03What's up with that? Why are you coming at why you come at our boy Theron like that?
SPEAKER_02It was so weird because, like, yes, this is a very important time in our history. Why don't you tell us about it? As soon as he gets there, it's like, well, fucking traitor.
SPEAKER_03Dude, I also was like into the story. Talking about like if you kill, you must create. And that's why, like, I am an elf in this way. And it's like, oh my god. Yeah. Talk dirty to me, Theron. And then whatever. I don't even know what her what'd she say? Who's who's the little elf lady who's all pissed?
SPEAKER_02Don't worry, she's in, she's I put her in the uh the mind hole of characters whose names I refuse to remember. Yeah. Let me uh there's actually a very nice moment between Ace and Theron that I'd like to.
SPEAKER_03After Asen tells the elf your honor is forfeit.
SPEAKER_02Which is tough, yeah. That's just like that's like saying go kill yourself, but they actually have to do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was brutal. She just like burst into tears on the spot.
SPEAKER_02Hey, can you vamp for a little bit while I find this quote?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, another fun part of this that we just skipped over is that uh the chainbreaker is in fact Kaylin's dad, who has a magnificent backstory that we're gonna need to hear one of these days.
SPEAKER_02That was brutal, because Dan specifically asks about it. He's like, no, that's book three. No, no, no. You're killing me. You're killing me. Damn. I why do I highlight these things if I can't find them? I don't know, man. On the pod. Surely it's not this late. Oh wait, hold on. I'm here. I'm here. We're getting there. Mm-hmm. Okay. This is so Theron and Asen have a very nice moment after this because Theron, you know, kind of kind of snaps a little bit. Um he's talking about how hard it's been, because he his dragon's gone. Um says, to be, and this is Theron to him. Oh, clasped Asen's head in both hands and touched their foreheads together. So picture that this whole time. To be Rekina is a burden many cannot hold. Never think that I do not know that, that I do not know that, my friend, but you are are not, nor will ever be alone. I have fought by your side for centuries, and I will die by your side if the gods grant me that honor. You will feel the touch of Liara's mind again one day, but not this day.
SPEAKER_01Very sweet. Very nice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Theron Toplad. Top lad. Need him to not die. No. Yeah. No, I think like though we have questions and want more Asen, um it's like a I mean, he's doing a really great job of showing how how horrible it's been for him in the past 400.
SPEAKER_03So Yeah, and I do like the parallel storyline of like Asen and Farda, like thinking about two broken people and how they're navigating the world. I do think that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, and especially like, yeah, you're sort of seeing this from from so many angles because like Kalen gets separated from his dragon. So like seeing how horrible that is and thinking about like Asen has done this for 400 years and hasn't let it stop him. Yeah. Like still trying to do what he sees, right? Yeah. The man is a badass. He is. That's a tough cookie.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's a pretty good Kalen segue right there, into our our finale for today.
SPEAKER_02I don't even know what they were doing when they ran into those worms. They were hiking.
SPEAKER_03They were just hiking, but it was like a blizzard. They couldn't see shit.
SPEAKER_02It was a blizzard, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Do you like the worms? The worms were uh kind of scary because they felt like little invisible monsters in the scene.
SPEAKER_02They like they jump like fleas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, which are like and they're just like picking people off. Very horse. Yeah, that was badass. I actually that was my favorite like visual description of the so like maybe in the whole book was him falling off the horse. Where it's like, ooh, uh yeah, yeah. I was like, wow, good job, Kahill.
SPEAKER_02Um I I don't know if this is going anywhere, but cool fight scene.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and also the the the dwarf with the eye for an eye. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, dude. Now I'm gonna be looking up another quote, but at some point Calen ha asks the dwarf, like, how are you doing? Like, we're pretty far from home. He's like, I miss the mountain and I long for the touch of my wife. All right, well, it's not what I would say.
SPEAKER_03Someone asked how I was doing those those side characters are quite good. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if we're just like in the bucket with the creepy spider guys, or it's just like it seems like a fun little scene, but it's not really we don't need to care about them going forward.
SPEAKER_03I think so, but there's one question I have, which is like they people have been talking about how the Wyrm attacks are actually getting more frequent, and I don't know if it's tied to the blood moon or not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and they're like in packs now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so it could be a large. Larger thing, like all evil creatures are getting more powerful. Yeah. Some Macbeth shit. Yeah. Um. But the little we've got our little squad. We're marching through. We've got the survivors of the Worms, and we're uh heading to the Frozen Goat. Another great pub name.
SPEAKER_02The brazen board and the frozen goat. Fuck yeah. He's having a really good time with these in names. And guess what? So am I. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03And Al on the Allaron time. The Viking arc.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's like a full-ass character now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. He matters. And he really does an Alwins his homie that is a very big character and then dies. But um but Alaran's a real character. And what and now we get the weirdest interaction in the whole series so far, which is Alaron and his mother.
SPEAKER_02Great news. I actually found this section already.
SPEAKER_03Good. I had it pulled up too this whole time. I was ready.
SPEAKER_02Wait, do you have it? I do. Right here? I do. Do you want to be Aleron or the mother? I'll be the mother. Okay, so can we skip everything that's not dialogue? Okay, so enter scene. Um, Travis, the mother, is reading, and Avery, Alaron, strong warrior, kind of looks like me normally, uh, is coming in to talk to his mom. And here's how I greet you.
SPEAKER_03It is the stag who waits to drink last. That avoids the waiting wolf. Don't you do that again. Do you understand me?
SPEAKER_02You know I cannot make that promise, mother. The people need protection, and I will not let them fight alone.
SPEAKER_03You remind me of your father when he was young. Your garden still thrives, then.
SPEAKER_02He was a good man, Alaron. I'm sure he was. But seasons change. Leaves fall, their colors fade, and they crumble. He is still your father, and his eyes see far. The winds are changing. I do not know how long I will be gone. Where do you go? To fight.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, that goes on for a while. What is that? It's so weird. It's so weird.
SPEAKER_02That is not a human interaction. I feel like we've praised this series so much for like everyone feeling very human. Friends are friends, people love each other. This is weird. They just come in quoting at each other. They're just doing art of war at each other.
SPEAKER_03So weird. And then there's maybe one more page of that kind of dialogue, and then she just goes back to her book.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And then she starts crying, and Aleron's like, well, it's kind of her business, not mine. I'll leave you to that.
SPEAKER_03Now go. I have more reading to do. Sobbing.
SPEAKER_02Just like go die, son. Doing it in that way, it's like no statement that they made was in response to the other person's statement. It was not a dialogue, it was two overlapping monologues.
SPEAKER_03It's really disjointed.
SPEAKER_02It's really funny.
SPEAKER_03And also like her staging when I was looking through it, like if this were a play, or you know, she's like Aleron's like rubbing a red petal and has his back to her, and she's like, your garden still thrives, then like it's so man.
SPEAKER_02Our musical adaptation of Bound and the Broken is gonna be so good.
SPEAKER_03Oh man.
SPEAKER_02Because this will be kind of I don't know, end of act two.
SPEAKER_03I'm I'm glad that we got this the scene. This is this was the crux of the whole episode. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If you could turn one fantasy series into a Broadway style musical, what would it be?
SPEAKER_03Bone Zone. The Bone Ships? The Bone Ships. Or Malazan. Not Mala-Zan. I don't want to be in a actually seeing them make the uh what the Warrens? Just I am the Cachin Kmal. I've descended from the Talakalakanamono.
SPEAKER_02Okay, writers block. I can't find anything to rhyme with Talani mask. I'm just the Talani mask chasing some ass. Their bones are their money. Trader's back, sells him out.
SPEAKER_03Dude, as as fun and wholesome as his mom is, his dad is the opposite.
SPEAKER_02It was wild seeing Aleron seem so large and in charge, real adult in the room, and as soon as his dad shows up, he's like a fucking teenager.
SPEAKER_03And then he just walks right into his dad's trap and gets everyone killed.
SPEAKER_02That was not good. That was not good. Is he dummy? Is he a dummy after all?
SPEAKER_03I think he's dummy. He wrote a note about exactly what they were doing and gave it to the guy who his dad knew was his friend.
SPEAKER_02That's not good.
SPEAKER_03Leaf, who I think him and Leif had something going on, by the way.
SPEAKER_02Leaf Erickson?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Could be. Could be. Leaf and Beard and Aleron.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And then we get the fights, the big fight.
SPEAKER_02You know, this high mage who shows up, um, he has like a scarred back. Yeah. And because I spaced out and didn't realize that he gave his name, I was like, holy shit, it's wrists teacher. Unfortunately, disproven by the text itself. But I was like, wow, are we supposed to intuit this? No, but he just he just uh went to the school of hard knocks. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'd argue this is the fight that you wanted the fade to have in book one.
SPEAKER_02What what what did I have issues with with the fade?
SPEAKER_03That like the fade's just like, oh, you're the guy, better leave. This fight was awesome. Yeah. And this was fantastic. Bro, also just the way I did really like him standing up for himself and not this like he's like, you know, oh my friends though, I'll go with you peacefully to save them. He's like, no, it's it's dragon time. Ride or die, baby. Ride or die, they're with me. I don't care. Yeah. Until doesn't work. Until it's literally ride or die.
SPEAKER_02In which case he chooses.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, at that point it was it was pretty much. Blood magic is so OP, dude.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I did love. We did get some. It wasn't villain malpractice because he still got the job done, but he did have to lore drop and be like, you do not know the power of the traitor god. Yeah. Yeah. Are you snapping necks with blood map? Oh man. The weird like ward thing that he can do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That seems dangerous.
SPEAKER_03It very much does.
SPEAKER_02Um oh, you know what I fuck with?
SPEAKER_03Incarnodyne. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna be asking Kyle about Incarnodyne.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Incarnodine was the Yeah, I didn't know, but so I looked that up.
SPEAKER_02It can be used as a verb.
SPEAKER_03I did look it up too.
SPEAKER_02That was gonna be some James Joyce shit, but nah, it's a real word.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the ice spears chuck in those. That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he ripped some worms with those. Yeah. Not as effective on the high mage. Yeah. Um, and also there's like a unlike the fade where I mean there was a justification for him not killing Kaelin, but it wasn't as clear in the text. Here, like the mage is walking a kind of weird line, or he does need to take him alive, and Kalen is doing his doggone best to get himself killed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And it kind of makes sense how he holds back in the fight, but then you know, yeah, kind of punishes other people. But eventually it slaps the cups on Caelan. Kalen, and uh no more magic for you, buddy boy. Sad dragon in the sky. Yeah, how lonely would that be? That sucks. That's horrible.
SPEAKER_02It's like when you let a dog out to pee and forget to open the door back to let him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's man. Feels bad. You're like, I did a bad thing.
SPEAKER_02That fucking always happens to my sister-in-law's dog, but they live in Canada. And you'd be like walking past the kitchen, there's like a dog standing in the snow. It's like, fuck! Like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_03Just staring right through the just blank stares.
SPEAKER_02Like, you could have barked. Please bark.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, if it's any consolation, the dragon is sad, but Kaelin is being tortured viciously for eight straight nights. So, you know.
SPEAKER_04Right amount of torture.
SPEAKER_03I I'm a little confused about what they're trying to get out of it. I don't know, man. They're a little freaks. I mean, having watched Ris go through the training, like, yeah, they're they're all little freaks. They gotta be.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Because he doesn't really have that much info. And they already know Asen's out there. So what's he gonna do?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I guess you could tell them where Asen is specifically.
SPEAKER_03Well, they did mention the portals are the thing that they're really trying not to talk about. The portal that goes straight into Duker Durker.
SPEAKER_02You could take it. Can you take it back, or is it a one-way one-way trip? Wish you didn't find that out. Well, there's some material for book three.
SPEAKER_03It's true.
SPEAKER_02Answer the question we've all been dying to ask. Man. Okay. Is there anything else here?
SPEAKER_03That's like all of the main plot stuff. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02Let's see. I wrote down a couple odds and ends. Um, we covered all it other than the giant wolf that Tarman sees.
SPEAKER_03Yes, which uh my question was do we think the wolf was a shapeshifter?
SPEAKER_02That's that was my only thought, and we'll wait till the end of the book. Yeah. We'll get into it next episode.
SPEAKER_03That's how I feel too. Um my only other thoughts to leave you with is what is the currency of this world? Are we getting like a mix of like crowns and coppers and yeah, we're getting like coppers, but the economy is not really fleshed out. That's just my that's just my little overanalysis brain. I'm like, oh how are they paying for all this?
SPEAKER_02You know, there was someone I was talking to someone and they were like, they basically said they hate every word for money in fantasy worlds, whether it's crowns or coppers or nuggets or whatever the fuck. I was like, well, you gotta call it something. Right. Shekels. And what what what would schmeckles?
SPEAKER_03Clams.
SPEAKER_0250 clams for chain mail. Yeah. Buckaroos. It's just seeing uh now I'm just scrolling through my notes on Kindle to see if uh highlighting anything funny. God, I can't wait for you to find that. All the stuff I'm seeing now is either lore or nice quotes.
SPEAKER_03The one just putting a pen in the the Viking Aleron saga, the one highlight I had from him is his little POV. He says, and if Alaron died doing so, all the better. A beautiful death it would be. I was like, whoa. Like, yikes, chill, chill.
SPEAKER_02Um we can do our classic, we don't know what to say anymore, and do uh prediction corner.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think Belina Luna is gonna be a character.
SPEAKER_02I think she's gonna be my favorite character.
SPEAKER_03I think she's gonna be a spy.
SPEAKER_02Love it.
SPEAKER_03That's my favorite prediction. I think Farda is gonna rebel.
SPEAKER_02Far yeah, farda joins the good guys.
SPEAKER_03Oh, but I think Farda and uh Kalen eventually fight each other. That's a that's a prediction.
SPEAKER_02Why not Farda and Asen? Oh, it could be both.
SPEAKER_03Because I think Kalen will try to rescue Ella, but Farda will be there. This might not even be this book, but that's just a weird thought.
SPEAKER_02I like that. I like that a lot. Um I think the whole wrist thing is still feeling pretty juicy. Oh yeah. Um because he's looking pretty propagandized right now. He kind of wants to be a battle mage.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And all he's really hearing is that they're at Uruk on the loose and they're killing them, which is good. So um Oh, hold on. Another note. Did you get the feeling at any any point that like Kaelin needs a better connection to this revolution? Yeah, I mean he he kind of like his justification for particip I know that they killed his family, but does that mean Fan Mortem's gotta go, or is it just like those specific guys who killed my family gotta go? Yeah. Because this is a big campaign he's on now.
SPEAKER_03I know. And I'm struggling whether this is in part two or part three.
SPEAKER_02I know exactly what you're thinking. Yeah, and I also don't know.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, he does at a certain point he does have a kind of reckoning about like who is Asen. Asen is like the guy who caused all this trouble. Why am I should I be loyal to him or should I do my own thing? You know, that is it's pretty real, pretty reasonable thought.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. It's like I like that that comes up because that was what I think. It's like he's sort of being dragged along. How much is he willing to, you know, put up for this? And how bad? That's it, it's an interesting thing. It's like Fan Mortem, no doubt, like behind the scenes bad guy. How bad is the Empire to people on a day-to-day basis? I feel like I need to see more of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, the Voltara thing is helping me understand that a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Just like how brutal they are down there. But you know, yeah, maybe I do need to see some more scale. Like, what are some of the other cities in the empire? Um prediction question for you What is Dan's thing gonna be? Wrist is a mage, Kalen's the one true king.
SPEAKER_02It's gotta be something that's not comic relief. I don't know, man. I don't know where I don't know what his role is. Maybe I think you predicted this a while ago, but maybe he just like really gets in with the elves and becomes a badass archer, even more so than he is now.
SPEAKER_03He has spent, besides Kalen, the most time with elves.
SPEAKER_02He needs a quirk, though.
SPEAKER_03That's what I'm saying. Like he needs like you know, a druid thing or like a or maybe not though.
SPEAKER_02Maybe like not everyone can be a knight radiant.
SPEAKER_03It's true. Yeah, I mean it would be normal. It would be a little formulaic to just give them all, you know, unique powers of the threefold free.
SPEAKER_02I suppose that would be interesting. Like if he's like, man, everyone around me is like firing off spells and all I have are quips.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Maybe he'll uh maybe he'll marry one of the dwarf queens. That would be good.
SPEAKER_02That would be very Matt Cawthon. Okay. Um I did find a funny thing. Okay. Uh Dane, when he goes into the Wyvern cavern to meet his leva, um, she gives him some broth. And here's uh here's a sentence. Dane let out a s let out a sound not dissimilar to a purr as the warm broth touched his lips. It tasted like home. Hey, can you what did that sound like? Give me your best. So you just tasted broth, it tastes like home, it's so good, and you set out a sound like a purr. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03Okay. No, that's just a purr.
SPEAKER_02You gotta have some more creativity. Sound like a purr. No, it sounded not dissimilar to a purr. Not dissimilar as a cop out. What's that the sound people make like when they drink a a a crispy soda in commercials? Do people do that? Do you do that when you have a sprite?
SPEAKER_03Uh when I have a Dr. Pepper.
SPEAKER_02Oh ice cold pep? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Ice cold pep at the movie. Really only drink them at the movies and they hit?
SPEAKER_02The movie theater near us has the that fucking sick ass Sody machine where you can mix all the flavors together. That's elite sody. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Well, with that, um Goohoo dolls take us away.
SPEAKER_04Won't you whisper in my ear?
