Of Darkness and Light by Ryan Cahill: Episode Three

Ch. 36-End. This is the ultimate jam-packed finale to a great book. Calen reunites with Valerys and meets the new best character in the series, Captain Kinky. Rist gets naked in front of some old dudes to become a battlemage -- trust me, it works. Dahlen and a hot Italian lady assassin attempt the world's worst spy plan. Everybody's cooking in this one. 

After some starhawk, druid, and Urak lore, the threads of the story unite in one massive battle between the Lorian empire, an Urak army, and a teenager with purple Super Saiyan eyes. Kallinvar finally comes out of his cave to help defeat evil, and we finally find out whether dead siblings are ever actually dead. 

Stay tuned for a very special next episode, and then continue the journey with us through the Bound and the Broken this month! Send us a note at booktwoisbetter@gmail.com or on Reddit/Discord @booktwoisbetter with any feedback or suggestions. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Buff thick chest. And Erdhart Hammersmith. In a book. Damn it, I thought you were trying to be cool. I was trying to get you to say a movie title.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Oh. Rush Hour Three. Thank you. There we go. Buffish Chest in the East. Biggest hammer in the world. Yeah. Um. Well, I was telling Travis this before we started recording, but when I was a child, there was a poster for Rush Hour outside of our blockbuster with a picture of Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker, and it said fastest hands in the east, biggest mouth in the west. And knowing nothing about the movie, I thought that Chris Tucker had Kirby-like powers. Whoa. And he would swallow the baddies. Which I actually never saw the movie, so maybe he did. You haven't seen Rush Hour? No. Wait, you actually knew that no Fast and the Furious either. Isn't that crazy? That's really troubling. Uh it's on my yeah, I know. I felt bad about it for years.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Rush Hour is like one you just need you just need to see it because it's a classic, but I I want to watch Fast and Furious with you. Like I want one of our next hangouts, we need to watch like the first six. Or actually, maybe the last six is better than the first six.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

My favorite song ever is in Fast and the Furious. Which song? It's been a long day. I thought you were gonna do doot doot do doot do do do do. And then Whiz Khalifa comes in with just his classic half asleep, half-assed verse.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

I wonder if you know. I wish you weren't dead.

unknown 1:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Can I reach you? I listen to the Tokyo Drift song when I run, because when you pass people, it feels like I'm doo doo doo doo. Wasn't that Pussycat dolls? No. Unless they unless they were being really racist.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Wasn't their whole thing that? I feel like they were always doing something kind of Egyptian. This is not Egyptian. Tokyo Drift. Pussycat dolls. I'm gonna give that a Google and see what we get. Um, no, it was by the teriyaki boys, which are sort of the yin to the pussycat dolls yang. The the yin yang to there. There's no way teriyaki boys isn't two white guys who work in a studio. That's true. That's true. Okay. Can I read you something? Yes. Could you whisper in my ear the things you want to feel? I'd give you anything to feel it coming.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Could you whisper in my ear?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

That's a crazy. That's a crazy four bars right there. Yeah. I mean, it does it for me, though. And then the rest of the song is like, Your dad was a drunk, your mom left you. What if I what if I solved all of this with the power of my dick? It's classic manipulation.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

God.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

What's this guy's name? He's a freak. He doesn't know how to comfort a person. Mr. Goo Goo doll. Mr. Goo. Mr. Goo. Giggity goo.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah. Well, welcome back. Welcome back now.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

We're done with the book. Yeah. We're not done with the series, though. Another one down, man.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

We just can't stop reading books. I truly can't. I mean, it's just exciting to have more content for me. So I'm I'm very ready for us to finish this episode so I can actually start reading the next book.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

You know what I'm hyped for?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

What?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Novella. Oh my god, is novella next? We got a Dane novella, my friend. Oh, this is huge. Extremely exciting. I mean, I don't know if I believe this, but I kind of think the fall is my favorite of the three that we read. I mean, the fall is unfair because it's so short. Yeah. The fall is. I'm just ready for another banger.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

The benefit of the fall is it didn't have to do the heavy lifting of development or you know anything like that. It's just bang, bang, bang with cool characters.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

It's like saying a cup of ice cream is better than like a Michelin-starred meal. Right. Maybe I enjoyed it a little bit more, but it's not better.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

But I will say there's something to be said for like when Farwin and like the other heroes of the fall show up. I'm like, oh, celebrity sighting.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

It is the best. Yeah. That like continues to be very, very fun. Yeah. Um, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

I feel like we're kind of just straight in, huh? Yeah, this is fun. And um I mean, all things considered, we have really been enjoying this. I think both of us genuinely are liking the series a lot. Um, and another exciting update for the pod. By the time this episode's released, we will have spoken with Ryan Cahill himself, which I'm very excited about.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

It's like meeting Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

It truly is.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Our Irish hero. Or Irish fantasy Jesus. Yeah. Unless he backs out, which would be I keep having a fear that he's gonna like he agreed to the show and then he's gonna listen to it and be like, no, no, no, no, I'm not going on that. Oh, no, no, no. I made a mistake. Not not these guys. Yeah. What was I thinking? Yeah. Well, yeah, very, very excited, assuming that happens. I feel like it won't feel real until uh we're on the horn with him. But uh yeah. Until I pull my Imagine Dragons joke and he leaves. I think we gotta save that for the end. Like once we have a sense of whether the conversation's going well, then we can't. You don't think it's an opener. It could be. It could be. If you did it, I wouldn't be mad. We're either going one way or the other. This is either the best interview ever or the shortest interview ever. But yeah, there you go. So more to look forward to. We'll get to we'll get to talk to the boy. Yep. But today we're closing out book two, Odal. Back in the day, we said we wanted to do more high-level thoughts before summary. Do you still feel that way? I feel pretty good about doing that.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

I mean, this is the end of the book. You know, we got it, we got a lot of. I don't think it's better or worse. Funny enough, I know that's a bit of a cop-out answer. Yeah. I kind of rate it the same as book one. Like very enjoyable. Couple of points of contention. But overall, really like comforting and an excellent read. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

I mean, I think that sort of relates to what I was thinking about, which was the same thing we said after book one, which is this is not a series where you can read book one and drop. Yeah. This is now a series where you cannot read book two and drop. Like it's sort of weird, right? Like talking about which one is better. It feels like as much as any series, like one big fat story that's just for publication purposes cut into a few chunks. Like I don't think this ends tidally really, but I'm very excited about where it's going and I enjoyed what was here.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

So yeah, there's no chance you could stop here. I mean, no storylines are complete, no character is is finished with their development. Like you know, I I think it's very different than like a Mistborn where you can stop after three and never read Era Two or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Or even one, there's sort of like a quest, and then you know, they do that quest, and then it's just a matter of what happens next. Here, like it's not like they're a bunch of tidy arcs, really. Right. Like Wrist gets like part of the way through school, Kalen just goes on a bunch of misadventures. Um like I guess Dane is probably has the tidiest wrap-up of anyone here, in that like Yeah, you know, they take over the city, they're sort of ready for what happens next. But right.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Dane could be complete. Like, I don't think he will be because those characters are very interesting, but that could have been its own.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah. There was one obvious thing that was wrapped up at the end of this book, where it's like, I mean, Kalen, it's not like Kalen had one goal in this book. He's what it what is Kalen's goal? Traveling. Kaelin has no goal. That's maybe the one thing that rubbed me a little bit about the book was it's not clear what exactly Kalen's supposed to be doing now. And it was a lot of it we talked about this like travel rest fight, travel, rest fight, travel, rest fight. Um and like I'm hoping that rhythm gets broken up in the third book because I think it will start to wear a little bit thin for me if it's just you know, people set up camp, wreck attack, assassination attempt, rents repeat, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah, I mean they do have an inability to spend one peaceful night in an inn in this series, which is frustrating. Like you get it is guaranteed if they rest in an inn, they will be attacked in that.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Can we just stay in the cozy daisy and have a chill night for a while?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

The frozen the frozen goat, brother. Uh the brazen boar. But I will say, like, yeah, there's there's kind of a loose big bad guy with Fane, but he's had no direct interaction with Kalen. I think Kalen has like this perpetual beef with the Empire, kind of writ large because they killed his family, obviously, but it doesn't feel personal besides the guy who tortured him. Yeah. Um, and also like now at the end of the book, they're kind of fighting with the empire against the Urax. So it's really unclear actually, like, what is Kalen's greater goal other than just survival with his homies.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking about is with the Urax sort of working against the Empire, I think it's like less clear than ever what the actual I mean, I'm sure they still want to take down Fain Morton, but like are they gonna end up working together on this immediate threat? And I'd imagine not. He seems like a pretty bad guy, but um I don't know. I at the same time, like it's it's a little bit of a switcheroo. Um, but I'm also extremely interested in what's happening with the Urax and the wonderful shamans and and all of that. Yeah, there's a a third fighter's entered the ring.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Indeed. And I guess my last question, maybe before we get into summary and more more specific stuff, uh we've really, really entered into multi-POV land. Like there are now nine separate storylines, I think, of different characters that are like very fleshed out and have independent POVs. Sometimes for me, the pacing felt a little inconsistent, like they would tack on two pages for a character at the end of another character's chapter and stuff. I don't know. How do you feel about how much it's bopping around at this point?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

I'm of a couple minds about it. Like, on the one hand, there's a lot of character sprawl, and I think we were joking about like why did these two random guards have to have haircuts and backstories? But like I think for every one of those, th there's also a tarman who I wouldn't have expected to be an important character and is now like I would die for him. Yes. Um so I don't know. I think it's a little bit of good, a little bit of bad. Um but the like I think the way he's doing it works, right? Like we have our there's a distinction between the core POVs and the tarmans of the world, right? You know, it's just like fleshing out these people who you might not otherwise like get to know this well, but otherwise, like you know, our focus is Kalen, Ella, Dane, you know, those people. So I don't know. Do you is it rubbing you like a little too much? No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Um no, I don't think so. I I think there might be like a little impermanence of some of the side characters. Like I thought when Fallman died and the dwarves died, there was like a one-second mourning period, and then we just forget about them forever. Yes. Like Hadrian, who will talk about them for four four books. Like, do you remember that time that one guy died 450 years ago? Um, but I think that's also just part of the pacing where it's like Caitlin doesn't have time to reflect, he is constantly on the run.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

So it I think it does work. I will say, I mean, somewhat related to that, because like obviously there's been a lot of death and a lot of side characters have died. Um I think Kyle's doing a nice job of having that actually weigh on Kaelin. Yeah. Like it's not always the most fun thing to read, but it it does feel like psychologically appropriate. I guess one of the things I remember from the early John Gwen books was like it was mass carnage, but it was also like, but we're just friends doing killing at times, do you know? And it like wasn't really weighing on people, and I think it's handled a little bit more realistically here with like the weight that that's putting on everyone.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah, man, we could we really haven't touched on this much, but I I hope we move from our Wheel of Time comparisons to a Corbin Kalen comparison um at some point, but yeah, you didn't finish the Gwen series, so that's your fault.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I didn't. And which is bad because Kyle's a noted Gwen fan and said he was a big influence. So indeed. Which you can see. You could definitely see that. Indeed. But anyway, let's talk book. Let's talk book, baby. Do you want me to summarize the end of this section for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

I would love for you to take on that massive task at seven in the morning Pacific time.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Do you like my Gen Z headphones? Oh, those are kind of nice, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, I'm also Gen Z right now with the wired. Oh, you gotta bunch up your little iPhone microphone and hold it in front of you. That's like my ick is when someone on like TikTok or Instagram holds the wired headphone mic in front of themselves in a little loop.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

You know what my actual ick is? Is people who do the finger tap on the thing they're showing the camera.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Oh, they're about to open like a new lotion.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

They're like, here's my phone. And it makes a little tap sound. I I despise it. Or or when you eat something, you go.

unknown 15:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

That's really gonna come through in this audio audio media. Travis just kind of smiled and nodded his head like a turtle.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Perfect plug for our upcoming YouTube channel, which this will be on once I figure out how to post things to YouTube. Book two is Better Eats, where we just do food reviews.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Mukbang while we while we read. I think I'll let you pages. I don't think like food content is it shouldn't be content. Too many people have channels where they're just like, I ate every fried chicken sandwich in LA. It's like you gotta come up with a better idea, man, than just like, well, I like to eat. I guess I could make videos out of this. No, I do like do something else. I'll play devil's advisor.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

I love beard meets food. The small, small British man who goes around destroying food challenges. Okay, I don't know him. He's got this huge beard that's just full of food. Yeah. And he's eating like, you know, 19 steaks in an hour or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

The only food influences I like are the prime mutton, who loves creamers, and Big John, who loves to order Chinese. Yeah. If you haven't uh if you haven't come across Big John and his impressive Chinese orders, give that one a search. Highly recommend. I mean good. All right. Hey, what chapters are we doing? 36 through N.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

36 to the epilogue.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Beep. Summary of chapters 36 through epilogue of Darkness and Light. Hey guys, it's Avery. I've got five minutes to write this summary, which is one more minute than Justin Timberlake and Madonna had to save the world. I can do this. In Drafane, Tarman, Aleron, and Co. rescue a now fingernail-free Kalen from Torture Town. And what better way to celebrate freedom than with your first dragon ride and a visit from a violent and very sexy persona? After some waffling, Kalen, Eric, Tarman, and a handful of others board Fantasy's first love boat, and they're headed to Italy. And the best route there is somehow through the gates of hell, Mordor, and the Mojave Desert. They stop in for a night at the charming resort town of King's Pass, and they spend a night in the five-star Cozy Daisy Inn, which constitutes a bit of fantasy malpractice because we all know a night at an inn triggers either an assassination attempt or an Orak attack. In this case, it's the latter, and my goodness, it's a biggin. Tens of thousands of Urax, two fades, and an Urak Rastafarian invade the city. Things are looking dire until the once comic Knights of Acheron pile out of their clown car and finally do something cool for once. And shout out to Travis's prediction several episodes ago, Caleb's brother is not only dead, he's never gonna die because he's a Knight of Acheron baby. Elsewhere, Dane and his sister confront Baron and stage a full wyvern take over takeover of Voltara. Ella's quest to meet her fake uncle ends where all quests seem to end in the series, with Ella joining the revolution in the company of a person who is a thousand years old. Wrist is put through his battle mage trial, where he's forced to choose between his old best friend Kaelin and his new best friend, the Lorian Empire. And Rist chooses correctly. Fuck that loser from the Glade. Finally, it's Absolute Bedlam and Dickka Dicka, the dwarven queens, of which there are approximately 30, are working to unseat slash kill the now insane King Damon, and there's only one group of people who can stop them: a moody teenager, the traitor who got Damon's dad killed in the first place, and a sassy lesbian bard. If you don't watch out, these guys might start a pop punk band. Last but not least, the book closes with a POV from kind, gentle ruler Fane Mortimer. We get to see the beautiful birth of another fade. So much life ending in this series. It's nice to see life beginning. There's hope in the world, and it feels like spring is coming at the end. Spring has sprung, my friend. I know. It's a beautiful baby boy. It is. And his eyes are black.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Black pools of evil.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Honestly, that is what I see when I see some babies. They're like, look at his beautiful. It's like, no, that thing looks evil. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Looks like most babies aren't cute. Everyone's lying to those parents. Yeah. White babies need some time to ripen, my friend. Yeah, that's why I'm making half Asian babies the way God intended. Yeah. Correct. And the pod. And the pod. Um yeah, this is great.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

This is fantastic. Really fun. I'm I'm gonna give Cahill props, Kyle. My bad. Yeah. He made me enjoy the Dickadicka plot. Did not think that was ever gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Our ref our refusal to call it by its proper name is is uh is gonna be great when we call it Dickadicka to Kahil on the pod.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I wonder if he'll know if I just say that and be like, director? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

But yeah, let's should we start in Dickadicka? I think so. It's pretty funny. Yeah, there's a lot going on. This is Palace Intrigue at its finest. We got a Thieves Guild. And an Assassin's Guild straight out of Pratchett. I know. I'm glad that they're I mean, I'm a big fan of organized labor. I I love it. It makes the city run.

unknown 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

For a small annual feat, you can walk the streets for free.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Um we also get the introduction of the best character in the series. Bellina Luna. Italian brain route character Bellina Luna.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Can we first of all, can we talk about how spot on my predictions have been this book? It's gonna be important. Well, yeah, I mean that one was a little more simple, but I'm still proud of it. Because you didn't even know she was a character.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, I was checked out. The Narvonian Bard man. I feel like a fool. I know. Have you ever seen a Narvonian Bard? Bookmark that page.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

How dare you underestimate Asen's letter sending fury?

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Can we talk about that prediction? We're like, how is this fucker writing? I swear it was like the next chapter I read after we recorded. They're like, let me take you into my giant hawk factory where I send all of my letters.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

That thing was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

I don't even know where I have the notes for that, but I loved it. That was fun because it honestly wasn't something I was really wondering about. Yep. Until pretty late. And it was like, damn, kind of everybody got a letter from this guy.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Um actually, let's just let's just knock that out, the Dan and Asen track real quick, because they're separate from Dickka Dickka now. Yeah. So they're in Argona, also Italian, also a city with massive rectangular towers that make no sense.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Although it's starting to get it's starting to get kind of meta because like the description of the city is like, yeah, we get it. They're fucking walls, they're towers. I'm stuck in a rut. I can't think of anything else.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

It's like you want to read about cities or you want to read about magic and dragons.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Well, you want me to put fucking canals?

unknown 21:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Argona's made out of big sticks. Argona's nothing like the Glade. There are homeless people here, not sheep.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah, what is this? Oh, that was good. Is this fun is this fundamentally a conservative take? I think it was pretty fun. That was pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Um, yeah, this is comms lore that I wasn't expecting that Asen's letter guy has a Starhawk factory at the top of a tower.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Shadowed Starhawks. Come on. We do get the introduction of two fabulous beasts, Starhawks and the Blackthorn fucking giant horses that are Yeah. War horses, yeah. There's some fabulous beasts in this series, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

It's true. It's true. That's uh that's one of the things that you can be as your role on the Discord channel for uh for this series. You can be a Starhawk? Uh not a Starhawk, but you can be one of the war horse riders. Uh I have us as Valtar and Wyvern.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

I sort of like that. Because I didn't actually know what those were when I selected my role. It was a little bit of a spoiler. Yeah. But now I do.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Because if you climb up into our cave, you can have sex with your ex.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

That's our whole vibe.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

All right.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Your ex is here, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah. Um, so we get some comms, lore, that Ace and sent 50,000 letters out from this factory, and that's what's organizing the entire rebellion around the world. Yeah. We we also learned about the Ongin is it Engin or Ongen? I don't know. I'm gonna go on Ongin. Um, that they can communicate quickly. They are aliens, but they don't really give a shit about humans.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

No, they're they're happy to disseminate some information for reasons I don't totally understand. But yeah, they're not very helpful to have them. Not liable.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah. Uh, but this was some good comic relief, I thought. Also, the section with with Dan and Ace. I miss our boy Dan. He's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

I know. He needs something to do. You think he's gonna be a knight of Acaron?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

No, my prediction that I sent you is that he's gonna be a politician somehow. Like after after Damon clearly dies, some horrible death, which he will.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Uh there's no way he's making it.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

No. They're gonna need a ruler to unite the kingdoms. And what better than the third guy without powers?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah. There's also a lot of I think he he comes across as a bit of a buffoon to other people, but when you're in his head, he's he's always doing some sort of social manipulation. Yeah. Like acting weird to get Asen to stop talking to him. Oh my god, that whole section is great.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

He's like, I've learned the best way for people to stop bothering me.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah. Um so yeah, maybe that's where it's all going that he's like actually quite good at manipulating people.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

So it'd be a fun turn like that. True, true. Well, speaking of uh manipulation, Belina Luna really pulls a fast one on Dalin.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

She sure does. Okay, I guess there's like a whole kind of convoluted thing where you know they're trying to figure out this assassination. Dalin sees a girl in the street, thinks she's following him. She she uh convinces him that she wasn't following him by pulling the uh I wasn't following you technique. Which he deletes instantly. You're following me. Creep. Um but yeah, like they get a dwarven informant who gets poisoned. They loot the body, which I love. Yeah, I did love the description of loot. Yeah, it was funny. Honestly, yeah, he had like a sprig of heather and uh four coins and a thieves guild token. Yep. So Belina Luna, Fox as always, says, Why don't you take that token? You could go into the Thieves Guild and then figure out what's going on. Um, and Dalin says, that sounds unbelievable. We could really get all of the information we need by doing that. Well, I love how you doubts it. He's like, you can really just do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

And she's like, Of course. It's gonna be totally fine.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Do I need a password? No. You dumb fuck. Think people have passwords. Um and uh yeah, um, it doesn't work at all. I mean, it works in the sense that he gets in, but the guy immediately clocks him. He's like, You killed my informant.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I love yeah, he gets smashed over the head with a carafe of liquor. And then the first line is, How are you stupid enough to just walk in here? Which I thought I chuckled.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Very funny that he filled the glass first. He's like, Shall we toast to your success? And to the second part of the plan.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah, that was really well written. This was one of my favorite chapters of the whole book.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Also, Cahill called out our favorite form of fantasy malpractice: people talking before killing. Yeah. Belina Luna is like, yeah, you got a talker. You're lucky.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Right. Yeah, he's like, this is the Assassin's Guild that I made you walk into. I was just using you as a body bait.

unknown 26:49

God man.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Um she's savage.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

She's the best. Love her. Um she's human, right? Yeah, she seems human.

unknown 26:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

I was making sure because she was hanging around with an elf. And I just anyone who knows Asen, I wonder if they're a thousand years old. People would have been more racist to her if she was an elf. Well, I guess she could be old because she can use the spark. So yeah, that's true. Hmm. Yeah, people are really racist. Yeah. Did you catch when when Ivan was racist against dwarves? Oh, yeah. I I called that out earlier in the book. He's just it's out of note. He's like, that is the sort of backhanded trickery a dwarf wouldn't do.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

So we do get this does lead into his backstory, which we get more context of, which is his wife and child got killed because of a dwarven mishap, basically. Yeah. And then, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Poor guy. Yeah, put him on the fast track to uh sailing out his entire kingdom.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah. Um, did you notice that we have a new drink of the book? The sweet sea breeze? Sweet sea breeze, amazing drink, which I actually like legitimately wanted to try. I was like, I have those ingredients.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

It was like sugar and rum and mint? Was there mint? Something like that. Yeah, it's basically. I was thinking sort of like a mint julep, except entirely rum.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Right. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like this is basically rum with a drop of sugar in it, you crazy bastard. But uh dragon's tears. That's the nice.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, there we go. Um what's the is it Drafanin whiskey that they were drinking that was like so special?

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah, that's the fancy one that is very rare but somehow pops up like every 30 pages.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Yeah, they were talking about how rare it was, and I think like the next chapter Ivan just had a cache of it. Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Um This is I'll I'll just to pick up a thread here. There's a lot of like moral gray zoning happening at the same time across different characters. So this is like Dalin's first moral quandary of do I torture this guy? And he solves that by just leaving the room while Belina Luna does the dirty work.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

That was kind of a kind move, I think, by Belina. Just like you can't handle this. And maybe in the nicer spin of that, I don't even want you to have to. Right. I don't know if she would be that caring, but you know, maybe that was some part of the motive.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

I know. I and this is this was interesting to me because I'm still kind of this is maybe John Gwen coded of like two people who think they're the chosen one, uh, growing up at the same time. But Kaylin and Dalin are kind of living these parallel tracks. Um and Kaylin at the same time, Dalin is having his moral quandary, is also having his of like, I want to murder everyone in the empire.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Yeah. Yeah, put a pen in Kaylin feeling nothing but pure rage from Valeris, because I that is starting to concern me a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Exactly. Um, but okay, continuing on this, they torture the the assassin. They find out Alanya is trying to kill everybody, not just the first assassination attempt. She's trying to do it again.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Did you also control F Alanya in Kindle when this was revealed?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I've done that about six times.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I is that a problem? I I really do think like if I had to do that, probably most readers would have to do that. Because they introduced the dwarven queens in like one paragraph, all in a row. They're like, here's the queen of this, and this and this and this. And none of them really stuck out to me as being particular. I mean, I guess Alanya is the most important because she was the most discussed, because that was the theory behind the assassination.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

But I mean, truly, we've only gotten speaking segments from Kira and Alanya. Yeah. But I did so the one thing that I'll give Kyle some credit for is the story so far, the beginning of the book that you just skip over because you just read the book before, really explicitly lays out who everyone is. So when you control F, I was like, oh yes, the dwarven rulers, Queen Kira, Queen Elena, King Hoffnar, and Queen Pullrone. I was like, okay, thank you. For I didn't have to go two books back and control F there to figure it out. But uh just a nice quality of life that I'll give them a shout-out for.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yeah, summary is very nice. Um, did you under okay? So fast forward a little bit. Um we get Don out of the Thieves Guild, and um, they make the mistake of sleeping, which again triggers um it spawns enemies. Um assassination attempt. However, the call's coming from inside the house. After Ivan beats several people to death with the book. Yo. Not the first book killing we've read this year.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

No. Think about that. Man, this was this I know. Guards guards. This was fantastic. Why was this more brutal than any other fight? Because he shoved a book in a guy's mouth till he died.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah. It's like what book was this? I think it was it must have been Wind and Truth. Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

I mean, I think heavy enough to kill to kill two men. The hardcover first edition signed copy. Yeah. Oh no, it was the $10,000 copy of Red Rising. That's what it was. Yeah. Made with the extra stiff materials. Uh, this this was the equivalent for me. The one thing I can never watch in an action movie is uh curb stomping.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

It makes me so uncomfortable. I always have to like you know, American History X. American History X. They did it in my K drama that I've been watching. Um really? I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

You know what I've been watching? Off campus, baby. Oh, what's that? You know about this? Mm-mm. Wow. Uh listeners, Travis lives under a rock. Wow. Off campus. It's the next, it's the next heated rivalry. Oh, you did you did mention this. It's sexy people having sex and playing hockey. All right. Well, I'll just go back to the show. It's more like it's not this one isn't like a like a gay hockey romance. This is like um, I would say gossip girl meets hockey.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I haven't seen heated rivalry, but Angela loved it, so she'll like this. I've seen some of it. Um, but no, I've been watching Bloodhounds on Netflix, my K-drama.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

K-drama?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

I see those all over my Netflix feed, but I've never dipped in. Let me know if I should. It's uh I don't think you'd like it. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't like off campus, but I I like to be included. I did catch up on the zeitgeist.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

I caught up on Witch Hat Atelier this week.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Oh, I'm one episode behind.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Oh, it's a very important episode.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Really? Yeah. Okay. Actually, the last one with the uh the wagon cart was so good. Yeah, this one I was not expecting that to be fun. I have some questions. I need you to watch it.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Okay, I'll I'll watch today. Say um, but yeah, back to the man. Dicker. Dickadicka. Ivan is. Did you think he was a warrior? Yeah. For some reason, he the whole time I knew him, I thought he was like this, you know, political advisor to the king kind of guy. And then he gets this throwaway description of like his scar-mangled face and like broken it.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yeah, I think just because he he kicked Dalin's ass in a spar. Okay, that's right. Yeah. But yeah, no, he definitely like I think of him first as an advisor, not as a fighter. Yeah. Um but but yeah, what the fuck, Damon? So Damon said Pull Rone offered to help him. Right. And so he put the hit out on his own King's Guard for reasons.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

My understanding, just reading into this, is that they wanted to frame Alanya. Gotcha. And therefore, you know, it was basically, oh, kill my guard, but don't kill us. And then I believe Pull Rone pulled fast one on him. I was just like, Well, you let me get all the way into the killed you too. Thinking about that. It's like, so you're saying you're undefended and kind of a bozo.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Pull Ron fantasy malpractice never let them sleep in a room full of books. Nope. You might as well have given him a grenade. Yeah, John Wick style. Yeah. Um, so that's sort of where we leave it. Um, and uh also like a badass line from Dalin, being like, You're a king, but you're not my king, motherfucker. Yeah. Um, I don't think he's gonna listen too much to it. I think Damon is now officially puppet king of Ivan and Dalin. I believe so. I know he'll be taking orders.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Again, though, why get rid of King Arthur? That guy rocked. He was so handsome. He really was so handsome. Oh, I have another handsome thought later on. But uh Did you do a handsome search in this book? I didn't have to because it one of them in particular really stood out to me.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

We have a representative handsome man. Representative handsome. Um should we do Ella or wrist next?

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Well, let's do let's do Ella because it's shorter, but quick question. Where's this all going, a dickka dicka? It's a really good that's actually a great, great question. I have no idea. Because like we s I'm not sure we've solved the immediate threat, and there is a fucking bunch of knots to be untangled here.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

There's also not like an adult present. You know what I mean? Like there's no Asen, no Theron. There's no 900-year-old guy here to help calm everyone down. So you have you have all the citiz citizens of Belduir about to revolt because they're kept underground. You have four dwarven kingdoms that don't really like each other, and you have a puppet king, and you have a racist advisor.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Right. Yeah, I don't I mean, they're sort of ripe for the picking. And is Beldwar occupied now? Can they go back?

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Well, they they close all the tunnels behind them, so I don't know how they're like. Okay, I have two pr two possible predictions. One is one of these dwarven queen kings succeeds and takes control, and we have like a you know, Dalin and Ivan trying to organize a rebellion saga. And then two is Ivan kills Damon and puts Dalin on the throne.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

That would be really fun. Yeah. But I guess the throne of what? Because I don't know. It's the throne of refugees underground right now. Um and I like the dwarves, they don't I don't get the sense that they want to get involved in the larger fight against the Empire. Well, they did, and then they got smashed, and then they came back underground. So like are they is there gonna be someone among the dwarves? It's like, yep, team Ace and baby, let's fight.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah, I mean I think they would some of them were more enamored with Kalen than others to help join the fight, but at this point, you know, that's what I mean. There's like no there's nobody to rally the troops, as far as we can tell.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah. More to come more to come.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

More to come and Dickka. Dicka Dicka.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Ella.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Wow. Were you expecting the Ella saga?

SPEAKER_00 38:42

No, because I never knew what she was doing in the first place. She was going on fucking Euro trip, and now she's a druid. Okay, so first Sky Druids capable of manipulating weather on a large scale. These seem to be the rarest of the three strains. In all 247 accounts, only two Sky Druids are ever mentioned. There you go. And it says, with any luck, the bloodlines of the Sky Druids are long past. Um, which I think uh Clearly not more or less guarantees that we will see one in the series. Okay. Seer druids capable of glimpsing potential future events, past events at which they're not present, and events happening at that current point in time.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

But not at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

They can only do one. You can't see past, present, and future all at once?

SPEAKER_01 39:31

No, you you only get the talents are mutually exclusive. Oh I thought you were just imagining.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Where am I?

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Whoa! I actually thought this was a really cool distinction that like you only get one.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

I'm looking at the past, the present, and the future. I've got subway surfers on one screen. I got this is a really funny note. After saying that they can see the past, the present, or the future. Uh the writer of this history notes each of the three talents has the potential to be immensely powerful if you used it correctly. Yeah, yeah, I fucking bet. I bet seeing the future is very powerful.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Okay. Also being able to just know what is happening anywhere in the world at this moment. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

I'm not seeing the utility in that. Why do you even ignore them?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

But this is what I can't believe they put all druids as more powerful or more interesting than these two.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Would you either be able to control the weather, see the future, or talk to a dog? Pack of rats, baby.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah, dude, pack of rats. We've seen it. We've seen in Malazan and we've seen in like the sleepless.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Like pack of rats is really effective. I bring that up all the time when I'm trying to like explain what makes Malazan bizarre, is that Steven Erickson felt that it was important to have different names for people who could turn into one animal versus a bunch of animals. It's important. Like they're and he was like, no, they're different. Don't even consider this part of the same power. These guys are doing different things. Okay. Aldruids, in my opinion, are perhaps the most interesting. Um, blah, blah, blah. Aldruids were capable of in innate communication with animals as well as the rarer gift of direct control.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Wow. Give me inside that big ass bear that Calen killed.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

I know. And in in this case, the example is that one person could control 50 wyverns, which is kind of hype. Um but in our immediate example here, Ella, who's hiding out in the Tarhelm tunnels, had to look that up. Yes, of course. With Farwyn, and now Corinne, shout out Corinne from the fall.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Welcome back, baby.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Uh, figures out that Feinir, her wolf that has followed her for an inexplicably long time, with no with no love or food or pets or anything. Uh, yeah, it's bonded to her. It feels her feelings.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

I mean, like, I I didn't really know that communication with animals was the thing. But once you learn it, this makes sense. There's obviously something going on with the dog. She talks to the dog all the time. It like clearly listens to her. Yeah. I just sort of assumed that the wolf pines are really smart rather than there being a magical connection.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

But yeah, well, funny enough, I actually assumed at a certain point that um her wolf was a shapeshifter. Really? That like her dad left her as like a gift somehow. Oh, you thought it was gonna be like a scabbers the rat thing?

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Surprise, I'm an old man.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Let me back in the bed. Yes. Uh so this this was I I was wrong, but this was a cool reveal.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Yeah, this is fun. Um she needs to find like a druid coach. So probably Corin. Oh that'd be nice. Yeah. Damn. Well, I thought that Wrist was gonna be a druid because of his encounter with the cat in book one. Yeah. Rist is a battle mage. He is. And he killed his best friend. Fuck you, Caelan. In a dream. Yeah. Was it a dream though? Yeah, well, we'll get there. Um, so that's like most of what we get from Wrist in this book is the trial. How'd you like it?

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Well, starting a little uncomfortable because your your first task is to get naked in front of a bunch of old dudes and cover yourself in tar.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Um at which point I probably would have left the order. We're 44 minutes in. I think I'm allowed to do a wheel of time thing. Oh, you are incredibly wheel of time with the ice to die trials. But um doesn't mean it can't be fun. I'm just saying stripping down and doing three things. Um Yeah. Whatever. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I did channel some Egwene in this moment. Oh, yeah, because that's some that was in the books you've read. Yeah. And in the show. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

True. Yeah. Yeah. She has a whole child and family that she must leave behind. Yeah. It's like that Rick and Morty thing where what's the game he plays? Carl. Where he just lives a normal human life and dies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yeah. Oh my god. There was a story recently uh about a woman who was in a coma for like a month. And in the coma, she had lived the life mentally of having a child or like children and raising them for like seven years. And then when she woke up, it was like all gone. She's been in like dramatic therapy since then.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Yeah. I heard recently about there's a very, very rare psychological condition where um a person is alive, but they think they're dead. That sounds bad. Yeah, it's really, I mean, it's it's like they're completely non-operational because they think that they more or less just have to be dragged around by other people. When I first heard it, I was like, do they think that like they're a ghost and they're walking around like none of this is real? You can't see me. No. No, it's actually they're more like um kind of in a vegetative state. Nice. Very interesting. Um what were we talking about? Uh wrist and the trial.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Wrist!

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Black liquid death. Get covered in tar, follow a faceless man, defend your loved ones.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

The faceless man is Kalen. No.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Surprise.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

And this is the first time Wrist realizes the Dralid is Kalen.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yeah. That is something I've thought about. Like uh the information gaps with Wrist and Ella specifically. They're real out of the loop. Yo, Ella has no clue what's happening. No idea. Thinks her parents are fine, thinks her brother doesn't ride a dragon.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Yep. That's gonna be uh that's gonna be a shock to the systems.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yeah, she's she she's she's in for a big update.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Well, I guess the one thing we didn't mention is Farda flipped a coin at the end of this section. Yeah. Assumedly to go probably what leave the army that he's with.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

And yeah, we didn't we didn't mention this last time, and I don't know if it's because we weren't sure what chapter it was in, but Farda gets like uh kind of spanked for not turning Ella in and is consigned to military service. Yeah. Um but we'll see where he crops up. Indeed. Not gonna be the last week here of Farda. Um Okay, main event, main event, main event. You're done talking about the trial? Yeah, I'm done. It was fine. It was fine. I think like for m for me, it it did feel a little familiar. And there's always something about like I don't know, it's like fighting in a dream world. Like I know that they say, like, oh, you can get hurt in there, but like he's not gonna fucking die. You know, it's just a matter of getting to the end. And the most interesting thing to me was like, is this a possible future? Like, I don't know, maybe some people think so. So so we'll see. Setting up a conflict we had anticipated. Indeed. Okay, Caitlin.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Kalen and Kalinvar weave together. I think we do both at once.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Yeah. Well, I'm sorry. Do you want to talk about Kalinbar's stuff before they show up and save the day? No. Oh, okay. I was like, uh, because I don't remember much before they saved the day. They literally just merge storylines later on, but um I mean we get the whole escape sequence too. Like Aleron gets the keys, they they get them out, Tarman carries him.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

What a fucking homie. Tarman is best friend material.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

You know what really tickled me? Running through the snow, Tarman's also been in prison. Yeah. The boy's not feeling good. Puts Kalen on his back, and then they start fighting, and he somehow Roundhouse kicks someone in the face with Kalen on his back. Seems impossible, but I mean not for Tarman. He's he's built different.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yep. Um this is my this is my handsome section. I would like to pull us back. So you're being tortured by high mage Artem Valdoc for eight days. You have no fingernails or toenails, you're starved and beaten. How would you describe that man? Kalen? Yeah, like how if you're Kalen, how do you describe your torturer?

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Probably like wet rat. Like you're kind of Oh, the torturer? Yeah. I mean, if listen, I call a spade a spade. If he's handsome, I'm calling him handsome.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Well, he does. He does. The high mage probably would have been considered a handsome man with his shark face, tanned skin, and blonde hair.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Oh, and I hate this guy, but he's kind of mogging right now.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

My god. God, this guy's kind of fucking nice with it, though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

I know. Um, I really enjoyed that. Sorry. Yeah. And then the uh beautiful reunion with Valeris. Let me throw something out there. I'm a little scared of Valeris. And it's not like uh this is not Night Eyes in the Farseer trilogy. Dragons are fucking frightening, and I know that they have a soul bond with them. We're supposed to care about Valeris, but at this point, I'm mostly a little freaked out by Valeris and it's eternal rage.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Valeris is real angry all the time. Valeris just wants to trogdor burn and ate the countryside.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Burn. Yeah, where's like I I expected that there would be way more of like them cuddling and just having like a fun relationship, and it's mostly like I must burn the empire.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Yeah, it's like Calen being like not yet Valeris, and it's like Valeris pounded his claws into the rock and rage.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Yeah. Yeah, he's locked and loaded 24-7. Um which I don't is really interesting. But also, like, I'm supposed to, you know, we know all about the soul bond and how fucked up Aceen is for his dragon dying, but what I'm seeing is like Kalen bonded to an eternally angry beast of death. And and I I somehow those the the squares are not circling or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

It's gonna be difficult for him to maintain the moral high ground when he is channeling dragon rage. And we see this, like he starts doubting Asen, he gets mad, he wants to kill Vardok um or whatever his name is. He channels purple eyes of Super Saiyan Rage, like Yes, yo, dragon mode, um, goblin mode.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Do you think truly um do you think this is gonna go down like a uh uh mutually assured destruction, nuclear disarmament kind of path where they're like, yeah, like post this conflict, we should have zero dragons.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Kind of kind of like uh um the shards and the Cosmere. It's just like yeah, we don't touch that guy over there.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Yeah, no. Um I wonder, because I'm not sure that it's a good like I think they need the Drow aid now. It is troubling to have them out there, like in general.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

I don't I haven't seen necessarily like an example of dragons doing good. I know the fall like showed that there are positive dragon riders.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Right. I guess it's like good Urak defense, but other than that, like if they can deal with the Urek threat, I would say living in a post-dragon world would probably be better for everybody. I would I would agree with you. Well, we'll see if it goes there. Or we'll see if Valeris has other sides um to his personality besides uh pure white hot rage. Rage. Um crack a joke, Valeris.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

I know. Yeah, we get some some reuniting here. Aleron comes back, uh Baird comes back, osseus is in the the picture somewhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

The the furry shows up and rips a couple throats to help them. Yeah, that was nice. Um is the furry. Yeah. This whole sequence after where they're like getting on the boat and then starting a new quest. I don't know, it just felt like a little weird, and I wasn't quite sure why anyone was doing what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah, it took me a minute to figure out uh some of the pieces here. Like, so I had wondered way back when you know you remember when uh Kalen and Aleron have like a secret barn conversation?

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

So the secret barn conversation being he wants to go rescue wrist and leave the squad. Yeah. Um but it took me a minute to kind of put those pieces together, and also like did you f I felt it was a little too simple. Everyone's like, yes, we'll follow you.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

It's it's just also like not what we talked about. Like, I think we'd established that wrist is safe, he's guarded by every battle mage, and there's a there's a revolution brewing, like we should, you know, eyes on the prize here. Yeah. Um, not like sail through hell and then sleep in the most evil city to ever have been to get and does it I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Is it I need to look at the map again, but like, would you not want to go reunite with Dan and the squad and Dickadicka and then go get wrist?

SPEAKER_00 53:48

It's also aren't Asen and Dan gonna try to go find?

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Yeah. The it well, Asen and Dan are trying to find them, they're trying to to figure out where the hell they're going using their uh shapeshifting trackers. So it's like, yeah, you're I don't know. It feels like this is a time to regroup before Yeah, it seems like they should have tried their best to get in touch with Asen first.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Because Asen's sending letters. He's got the Starhawks, you know. Yeah. I'm checking out the map to see where these guys are. Because I know where Drafane is. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

And uh And where is um where is Argona? Compared to Drafane. I can't find anything right now. I think it'd be southwest.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

What the hell? Oh wow, there's Akron's keep, it's in Voltara.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Yeah, dude, I can't find any of this shit. Yeah, well, we'll figure it out one day. Yeah, this isn't a good podcasting, we'll leave this be. Yeah. Okay. Um Okay. Kinky Captain, I think we both love. I think I'm comfortable speaking on your behalf here.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

A kink for lost causes.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Don't you mean a fault? No. I'm bricked up. That rocked. What a cool description. To say that you have a kink for lost lost causes, then hand a young boy a cup of rum is is questionable behavior.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

The the fact that he has personal kegs with like a very convoluted system of holding his cups of rum on tables. Like what a that's some king shit right there. Didn't they say, like, man, I wish Dan could see this? Yeah, he's like, damn, I bought this shit. That's very good. I also love the lore that elves get seasick. I thought it would be dwarves, but it's the elves.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

No.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Calen sees his first boobs.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Yeah, uh no, second. Queen Kira. The dwarfs human boobs. Okay, sorry, of course. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Blushing little boy from the glade.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Um, yeah. This really made me want a whole like seafaring book in the series. I I I miss I you know I love uh an aquatic adventure.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

So I do, I do. Yeah, I would.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

And the Acheron is a ship from from fucking Master and Commander Command.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Like it all it all works out, you know. What was the ship's name? The Temptress? Surprise.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Oh, I'm sorry, but not Master and Command. I was like, wow, he's taking an interest in my wallet.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

You definitely know the name of that boat, but not this one. I think it's the Temptress, right? That sounds right.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

That sounds right. Um this is funny, but yeah, all I could think in this section, besides loving the captain, was Asen is gonna be really pissed about this plan.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

Like, first of all. Yeah. Yeah. He sort of coached Kalen up and he's ignoring every lesson.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

So yeah. And then also, like, why are they going the hardest route? Like you said, like straight to Mordor through the teeth of the electric fire desert and King's Pass. What the hell is happening?

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Why does anyone live in King's Pass?

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

I don't know. You know what I was thinking about when I was thinking about why do people live in King's Pass? I was thinking about my similar take. Why does anyone live in Los Angeles?

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Oh, well, this is here.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

I was like, just move. You know, it's not nice here. But then some people just don't. They're like, I don't know, my family lives in this place. Yes, we get erect attacks and horrible weather, but you know, it's home. It's great. Yeah, we rebuild. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know, I've been looking at this map the entire time. I still can't find King's Pass.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

Probably on the map.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Come come finish the episode. Okay, I'll hang out. I'll hang out. I'll start. I close the map.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Good. Okay. Um, um I did not, all right. This is my first bone to pick this episode. I did not like the chapter describing their like exit from the boat and entrance into King's Pass. I thought it was bad. What about it? I thought the like descriptions were pretty sloppy of everything. Like um basically they describe like all of King's Pass and then a deck hand describes the same thing again. Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Uh I'm trying to find the like actual passage here, but it's tough. I don't I can't figure out where we are. But anyway, it just it felt like not my favorite section. Felt a little rushed.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

I like I wasn't worried about the description. I don't know. It just didn't jump out to me. It was more like I was aware that we only had a handful of chapters left in the book. They were sleeping in an inn. There was gonna be an Uraq fight, and it just didn't feel like it was really gonna be connected to anything larger in the series. And it sort of was, but like he won me over, but it's just I think I'm reaching the end of my patience for sleep uracs appear or sleep assassination attempt. Like I think I need different plot beats right now.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah. Can I okay? Here's my worst worst line of the book in the same vein, which is immediately following their their night of rest and the cozy daisy. Horns bellowed, their sonorous ringing muffled as though underwater. I think is that bad.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

I thought it was pretty bad. I thought it was pretty bad. The the only description that I had flagged as a little funny was the setting sun dipped its toes into the horizon.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Dipped?

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Just dipped its toes into the bottom. Dumping the toes. I don't know why. No, I don't need the toes.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

Captain Chiron with the kinky feet. Hello? Hello. Um yeah, okay. It's it's not that bad, but it was I was getting a little fed up of this section describing all these different electric lands and jagged cliffs, and uh it felt a little just full of itself um for not much effect. But then we just think of battle mode, so that got fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

Yeah, and I will say, we've seen about a hundred Urak fights. This was a good one. This was a good one to end the book. I was surprised by the scale, to be honest. I wasn't expecting tens of thousands of Urax or hundreds of Empire battle mages.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Where did they come from?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Post it up, I guess. Yeah, just hanging out. King's Pass is a stronghold. I think I maybe overestimated the battle mages. Uh because I kind of thought the magic was so powerful that if you got the battle mages, that like a handful of them actually could kill 20,000 Erax.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

You know what it feels like a missed opportunity for for me is like teamwork, battle mage teamwork, because they all end up chucking individual like earth spears, but it feels like you should be able to combine forces to like earthquake.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

This is my complaint. I think we've seen him he's very creative with the way he uses this magic, but I didn't feel like it was creative here, and I sort of would have thought they would have come up with like some wild tactics. Like, can they not like raise a giant earth wall or create a fucking pit to have them all fall into? Like or not just chuck ice and rock spears. Well, to be fair, he does invent the shotgun, which was fun. That was cool, yeah. I don't he always is picking things up and quickly sharpening them.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

Yeah. Which I guess if I'm a teenager who's learning how to use magic, my inclination is to build the things I know. Yeah, I guess. Like pointy stick hurts things.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

But didn't we see that technique in the fall where people opened up the floor? Yeah. Like, why don't they do that beneath the Urax and then just have them stuck in the mud like a bunch of flowers?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

See, I think this is where you're talking about the ancient best warriors in the world versus a bunch of teenagers that just learned how to use magic.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

No, but they got all the battle mages.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Yeah, that's fair. I I think you have a point because like everyone in this book who can touch the spark ends up being hundreds of years old. So you should be an expert at that point.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

Um I agree. Like, I feel like 10 battle mages together could open up a pretty big pit and just squish a bunch of Urax.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

But they don't let's open up this fucking pit.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

They don't appear to do that. Um, but I will say the the first blood magic exposure for the squad as they're in the middle of this fight is like very jarring.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

When they blew up an entire section of the wall. Yeah. That's nuts. Also, the the like very video gamey ground pound that the blood ruined people do, it's wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

And one of the blood marked is like swinging bodies like a yes, yeah. There's a lot of guts exploding in the middle of this fight. Yeah. Caitlin's just showered in guts.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

Yeah, the blood marked are fucked up. Those guys are really on a different level. Yeah. Um, okay. They also befriend, not befriend, but they sort of befriend a battle mage, which is very interesting. I'm quite excited to see if that character stays involved.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

Yeah, she's cool. She's she's kind of a badass. Um very practical. Again, reasonable people in these novels.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

Yeah, so reasonable to be like a dragon is a nice thing to have right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

Yeah, it's like I don't give a shit who you are. Like, just help me live. Yeah. We also need uh Varsundi Blackthorns. Yeah, talk about these big hosses, big old horses. Yeah, yeah. Holding Budweiser tankards behind them. Yeah, golden receiver on their backs. The eagle coming in. Um but yeah, they're pretty sick. Uh simultaneously, though, as this fight is starting, a convergence of the taint is beginning to be noticed.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

I'd been sensing a convergence of the taint. Yes, was your taint for a full? Yeah, my taint had met another taint. And that is uh that's how you get the knights to come. Yeah. Get that taint out of my rift. She converged on my taint till I rift. Oh man. Whoa. Okay. Well, they show up, long story short. Uh, they were just that's sort of a bummer about being on call. It's like they're like, man, what a chill evening.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

Okay, but also it's like we need to hurry immediately. And then they have like four pages of speech making and rallying, and like I'm like, come on, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

I've got some issues with their need to say three to four separate slogans before they go. Once more into the rift, my friend. Once more into the rift, pain before pleasure. Yep. The duty of the strength is to protect the weak. And then there's like another one that I think they weren't all committed to, but one of them wanted to say.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:21

That's what I was saying. There's a lot of there's a lot of speech making for guys that are in a hurry to to fight the taint. Um but anyway, they they pop out 28 boys and girls out of this rift, and uh turns out very helpful in a fight.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

Yeah, I think we gotta stop saying they're not helpful.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

Yeah, this is the first like full redemption mode for me where turns out like the shaman, which is nine feet tall with horns and shooting blood magic out, is like yeah. Calinvar's like, oh, I've killed four of those guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

There's um do you want a little wheel time fun trivia lore? Uh I believe. It's in the first book, there is um there's a troloc who speaks. Yes, there's not a troloc who speaks in the remaining 13 books. Really? Yes. It's like he sort of changed his mind, maybe, about what Trollocs were. Um, and that Trolloc is known as Narg, and he's a real big fan favorite in the community. That's funny. This Narg, the one Trolloc in 14 books who speaks. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Isn't that great? That is great. I gotta be honest, like going back into other book lore, like Lord of the Rings orcs. One of my favorite parts of that whole series is the orc conversations, like as they're trying to kidnap the hobbits and everything. I think it's a missed opportunity to get some caveman grunting.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

I know. It's easy comedy. It is, I think. It is, yeah. Okay, knights in. You know what I was not expecting? Two of them to die. Pretty fast. Kind of thought they were just gonna kick ass and get out of there.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

Well, it's because when again, when they spar, they are down to get injured repeatedly. No defensive techniques, all offense. And they really don't. Like he's just charge, they charge in swinging. They have no thought about defense.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

Did you like them dropping out of the sky like meteors? Yeah, it felt very red rising. I love that. Just landing like Captain America pose in the in a fucking crater. Iron Rain, baby. Yeah. I mean, it was epic. I I Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

Who am I to equally epic was Calinvar watching Kalen and and his friends go to battle because they look really fucking cool from the outside.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:36

Yeah. That was awesome. Um but important casualty. Verathon. Yes. The old name's. One of the OGs. Didn't he didn't Calinvar say he's the one who brought him into the Knights?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:51

Yeah, and he's been there since like pre-fall. He's been there. He's the guy who controls the Rift, I believe, right? Or is that the other one? Is that the Grandmaster or something?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

Yeah, I thought, because I thought the guy who opened the Rift didn't go with them.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

I couldn't remember. I know there's only one guy who controls the Rift.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

Grandmaster Verathon.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

Yeah. So the Rift needs to be passed on, assumably.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

Yeah. I wonder. I'm interested to see what that means. Probably Calinvar. Like he seems like the Well, he seems like next up, right? Like the next most senior. Well, I I do believe in him.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

Yeah. Quite like him, in fact. Um but yeah, so fun facts here, Soul Blades can kill a fade. Like perma kill a fade. That was important.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

And also important, Dragonfire cannot perma kill the fade, which we will revisit in the epilogue.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

It does kill it, but it does not uh untether its soul from this dimension. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

Also, the uh yeah, goes both ways because now Verathon is denied entry to Akron's halls. Sucks. So I guess he's just dead dead like a dog. Yeah, it's basically, I mean, it kills the soul, these soul blades. Yeah. Is there like a reincarnation concept in this world?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

So that's what I was curious about. Is like, um, I mean, again, we're getting real comparison heavy here, but into uh into the Cosmere, you know, we've got these recycled souls.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:21

I thought you were gonna say Wheel of Time, and I was nodding furiously.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

I mean, I mean the I know I'm I'm referring to what I know, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean it's not it's not like a an original concept necessarily. I mean, I still like it. So I you know, they basically have like a hundred, it seems, of these sigils from the god that they can basically give to people for uh immortality, and I guess it's like permanent youth, not immortality. Um so I guess you know, maybe there's a a case where they could reincarnate some of their people. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

But not if they get soul bladed. Yeah, soul bladed seems like the definite that's like the bail fire, Balefire Wheel of Time burns you out of the pattern entirely. Um so we'll see. There's some stuff going on with death. Um I I want to know too, like the gods are real. I'm pretty comfortable with that. How do are Akuran's halls real? Or is it just like a vague notion of heaven? Yeah, or is it like Valhalla, you know? They think it's very real. Right. Are we gonna go there? That'd be kind of fun. I would love to. I'm ready for God Realm. Put me in good. Take me to the spiritual realm. Um okay, and then the big twist post-shaman death. Did I call it or did I call it? He called it, folks. Kalen's brother. Very much alive. Yeah. Alright. This is this is the last time I ever believe a sibling is dead. It's never, never gonna happen in any of the books we read. No. If yeah. It's the brain matter rule now applies to siblings.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

Yep. Okay. Um so this this calls into question also uh Ella's ex and his his reliability.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:17

That's interesting. Well so Kalen's brother is the guy we saw in the prologue of the first book, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

Is he?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

Oh, he's the newest member.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:30

Okay, I guess No, the newest member is Arden.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

Yeah, Arden Arden is the guy in the prologue, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Let me go to the end here. Let me go to the end here. Okay, I I do I do actually want to get this straight. I feel like this is reasonably important. Um dude. Arden is his brother. No, Haym is his brother. No, I think he's got a new name, my friend. Because so when um Varathon dies, the two knights that are there are Kalinvar and Arden. Oh. Am I listeners? We will correct this in the next episode if I'm wrong, but that was my assumption is that there's a new name, not I am, it's Arden, and Arden is Kaelin's brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

So that would make sense. Okay, this is actually a really interesting point because it makes sense why Arden is being featured so much in these sections of Calentvar. Of like, yeah, yeah, really getting some character development.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:38

Wow. I bet, man, I bet if you go back and read the prologue of book one and the first chapter, it's like Arden gets becomes a knight, and then the book opens with, man, my brother's dead. This is so sad. Yeah. It's definitely one of those. If we if we do the reread, we're like, duh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

It's like I wonder wonder what happened to him.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

Did this did this hit you right? Was this a fun reveal? Was it a little eye roly? Was it somewhere in the middle?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

It's a little eye roly, but it's not offensive. I yeah. It's a it's a cozy fantasy thing. Like we're we're m chosen one and dragons, like I'm fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

Yeah, it didn't hit me perfectly, but I'm excited about what it means for the rest of the series.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

So and I'm I'm excited about this like merger of the Knights of Acheron and Kalen's squad to see what actually happens there.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

So what if they make Kalen a knight of Acheron and he becomes a real toxic brew of knight plus dragon? Dude, him with the shard plate, the sentimental armor. Could be kind of sick. Kinda cool. Just saying. We'll see. But I do I'm lodging my prediction that Eric is going to be brought into their ranks.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

Yeah. You like that? I think that's fair. I still want Eerdhart Hammersmith to be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

Oh yeah. We discussed that before the show. Yeah. He's my favorite. Well, we got two spots on the roster, and I genuinely believe Erdhart was is the best warrior that they could possibly find.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:12

You know, I I think Tarman is technically the best warrior that they could find.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:16

No, I'd say I'm taking Erdhart 1v1 against anyone in the land, including Faye Mortem. He's eight feet wide.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:24

Can we can we just write an arc where Eardhart goes on a like a Sisu revenge arc and just single-handedly kills Faye Morton?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:35

I want Eardhart to be like that Hashira from Demon Slayer with eight wives. Yeah. Because speaking of uh open spots on the roster, he's in the market for a new wife. Why not eight of them? It's true. It's true. He's got enough love to go around. Indeed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:53

Well, there's only one thing left. Birth. The birth of a fade. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:01

A wink in the universe. This yeah. Back when I was just a glimmer and Feynmortem's blood magic ruby. Okay. I do have some questions for you. So do I. But I'm trying to find. Okay. So they keep referring to the essence. Capital E essence. Is that just blood magic, but it's from their perspective, so it's not scary.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:29

Yeah, I believe that is the death that they are collecting in their stones. Their mana bars.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

Yeah. Okay. So the battle mage who let Kaelin escape and also tortured him for spoofs and goofs. And who's handsome. And well, not anymore. Nope. A strangely handsome fade appeared. Yeah. Okay. He's with Fane. Fane's like, You're done fucked up, my friend. You're going to die. Unless you become a fade. You want to ascend? Yeah. Ascend. Okay. When he when he said ascend, I thought we were entering into the world of crazy godhood and shit. I thought he was going to become a vessel for a shard. Right. So when it turned out to be fade, I was like, oh, I kind of wanted you to become like the host of a god. Well, so they they tee it up to be more.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:24

So like when Fane is talking about ascension at first, he says, like, uh, do you not believe in the savior? Do you not wish to share your soul with one of his heralds? It's the highest honor that can be bestowed. And I'm like, oh, so you're gonna literally channel like a god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:42

Well, but I guess the fades are not. Is it necessarily like not the case? Maybe there's just more to know because like I think we were talking about who who Azrim is. Yeah. I thought it was probably one of the fades who died. Um Things pass. I I don't I mean, I have no clue. That was just where my mind went.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

The only reason I disagree, what I think it's a reasonable take, I is because he's like, oh, I would turn you into a fade, but those fuckers don't listen to me too much because they're technically vessels of the evil god. So I think Azram is like a different spirit than Feltier.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

And the savior we we think is Epheltier? That's what I can't figure out. Yeah. It's like I don't know. We can guess at it. I'm sure if like we had an hour, we could probably find better connections. But I don't want to also spoil it for myself by looking it up and stuff. No, no, no. But like, I mean, it's a great epilogue, right? Like so many questions, expands the magic system a bit, brings the gods into play. Like this is yeah, this is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

And can can we also praise Kahel a little bit for s making us like very reverent of the big bad evil guy, Fain Mortem, who's had like two total chapters in three books. He's pretty scary. Pretty scary. Pretty scary. But two times, yeah. He's either raised an entire city or ripped a continent in half. Yeah. Created a new god. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

Yeah, he's doing he's gonna be a problem, my friend. I don't think Ice Spear is gonna get him. No, unless they have the manacles of justice. Is that what they do? They lock him up and put him in the clown car. God, I would hope. I would hope so much. Yeah. Um, okay. That's well, that's the end, my friends. Yeah, fantastic book. I had a great, I had a great time. Really fun. Series continues to cook. Um and yeah, people are saying the next one's better than this one. Yeah, what's crazy is we got a lot of notes from people being like, yeah, book three and four are way better. And I'm like, I'm having a great time. That's sort of the sense I guess that people are like, book one, worst, book two, noted step up, and then three and four are just kind of on another level. Um, so I'm excited to see what is making people say that.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:12

Because I this is not an insult. I did not think book two was necessarily a big step up from book one. I thought they were both good in different ways. They had different pacing, but yeah. I I I didn't really feel a noticeable jump in either direction.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:29

No, it didn't. I mean, there's more action in the second one, but they feel just like so of a of a beast. Like if they formed one 1200-page book, that would attract.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:40

You're saying fighting 10,000 Urachs is different than fighting a bear in its cave.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

Well, and then a cat and then two uracs. So it all balances out. And then your name. Simpler time in the glade. Yeah. Man, we have come a long way, haven't we? Yeah, we have. Yeah. Any predictions? Mine is Eric Knight of Acheron, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:00

That's a good one. I still think there's gonna be like a Dalin versus Kalen showdown somewhere in the future. Um there can only be one showdown. Dalin thought he was gonna be the chosen one.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:14

I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

I feel like he's grown a little bit. He has, but I still it's still there. It's still there in my in my mind. Um I still think there's a farda Kalen showdown with Ella in the middle at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:31

Yeah. Um do you think Okay, I'll I'll lodge this prediction. I don't know if I believe it, but I think there's going to be a uh Kalen, you cannot control me, Asen. I'm the Drawlade. I'm high off my own supply. Fuck off, Ark.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

I mean, he does like shove Eric in the middle of the battle because he's channeling Dragon Rage, so that's a pretty fair assumption.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:57

Oh, yeah. Also Dragon Rage being a genuine problem. Yeah. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:03

I think those are pretty decent predictions, yeah. And Bernhardt Hammersmith strikes the final blow in books five.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:10

Kills Fainmortem. Yeah. Yeah, okay. I mean this will be a 10 out of 10 series. This will be my next five-star read. Yes. Five big booms. Five big boom. So we'll be back in the not too distant future with uh the next novella, I think is the plan. We're gonna be talking Dane. Next up we'll have an interview with Ryan Kyle. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tune in.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:33

No, yeah, nobody cares about that. Um, no big deal. It's not the crowning moment of our podcast or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:39

In a week, actually, exactly a week from the date of recording this. So we'll be talking to him about Imagine Dragons. Indeed. And then um straight into the novella. We'll see you soon. Yes, we love you. Um, Charlie and all Drew.