Book Two is Better
A fantasy readthrough podcast with Avery and Travis. Bug us on Reddit/Twitter @BookTwoIsBetter, or email us everything you love or hate at booktwoisbetter@gmail.com
Book Two is Better
Of War and Ruin by Ryan Cahill: Episode Three
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Ch. 36-63.
As Sun Tzu once so excellently said: "donkeyballs".
This is the ultimate crossover episode - we get a Farda/Rist/Ella sequence, the rest of the Glade homies reunited, and a "you're not my real dad" sequence with Calen and Aeson. It's so good to have the squad back together.
There's also some serious lore corner implications with the Tale of the Chainbreaker and a bunch of god-infused vision quests. This book rocks.
Keep up with us at booktwoisbetter@gmail.com and on Discord/Reddit @booktwoisbetter. Love ya.
What's up? Book two is better. This is Hasan Piker. Um, we accidentally just started a live stream.
SPEAKER_01Um, one of the most terrifying moments in my life was when I accidentally started an Instagram live and I didn't figure I couldn't figure out what I was doing. And then people like two people popped in to the to the idea. Yo, James, what you doing? What's your order? How do I turn this off?
SPEAKER_02The classic pro athlete streaming while driving. Oh my god. Yeah, dangerous stuff.
SPEAKER_01We gotta get these these people off social media.
SPEAKER_02Don't stream and drive. That's a terrible idea. Yeah. My um brother's girlfriend, who has listened to one episode of the show. Uh just she's like a works in marketing or whatever, and one of her big clients is milk.
SPEAKER_01Like just like big milk or big milk, the milk. Harvey milk?
SPEAKER_02No, not Harvey Milk. No. Big Dairy Milk. Um, and they sponsored an event called Streamer You. I've heard of this. Oh. Well, she was there with Kai C Nat and a bunch of broccoli-headed children running around doing uh flash mops and shit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the only reason I'd heard of it, there's a streamer I do like called Ludwig, who I think runs in some of the same LA circles as like Yone's people. But um he's he's more of like our speed of guy, like mid-30s. Northern Lion? Yeah, exactly. Okay, and he was giving I kept seeing clips of him giving like legitimate good classroom lectures on how to be a streamer. And he kept uh he like failed everyone who didn't do the homework. It was entertaining.
SPEAKER_02It's weird to set this uh I man, listener's not gonna give a shit about this. Kai CNAT, who's a streamer, set up this like academy to teach people how to become better streamers. But it's very selective. They took like a hundred people, and all the people who got selected are kind of successful in their own right. But one of the classes they had was taught by T-Pain about music. It's like, I don't think he's gonna get you over the hump in a week. You never know. You never know, but at the same time, I think they should just focus on what they know how to do and not try to learn how to make music from T-Pain in one week.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes all you need is a little auto-tune.
SPEAKER_02Epic rap battles of history. Is that the most millennial thing that we've been put out?
SPEAKER_01It's real like turn of the century humor.
SPEAKER_02I wonder if that's where the idea for Hamilton came from.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know he was in some college humor sketches. Lynn? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Interesting. I feel like he's beneath them. No. The most successful Broadway musical of our generation. A little below college humor, in my opinion. A little lowbrow, just like our show. Okay. Do you want to do my bit or do you want to talk about Pow World? I I I don't care about Pal World. I don't care that you broke your elbow, Avery. I'm gonna say it. Okay. Well, we're gonna skip Pal World.
SPEAKER_01My uh easily huh? You're gonna back down that easily. You're not gonna fight. You said you didn't care about it. It doesn't mean I've not cared about so many of your hobbies, and you still tell me in intricate detail about it.
SPEAKER_02Wow, okay. The fucking truth comes out. This guy doesn't want to hear about fish all the time.
SPEAKER_01What a bitch. Oh, I forgot to tell you I ran into a goose head at at the bar last week. I'm wearing a goose shirt. Yeah, I was wearing my goose shirt. I'm not wearing mine, I don't know why I showed you my shirt. Uh I'm wearing a shirt from Key West, which is a strange place. But um I walked into a friend's going away party and he was like, Goose? You like goose?
SPEAKER_02And not in the way that you think I do.
SPEAKER_01I was like, yes, but I was like, but calm yourself. And he did not calm himself. He spent 30 minutes talking my ear off about jam bands until I kind of had to uncomfortably walk away.
SPEAKER_02That sort of is it's sweet and sad because clearly he has no friends who share this hobby.
SPEAKER_01His wife does, and they go, they go as a couple, they're actually the like such nice people. And I do to be clear, I ri I very much enjoyed the first 30 minutes of our conversation, but then I ran out of anything I could possibly say about a jam band.
SPEAKER_02There's a limit. There's a limit. Um I was discussing with exposure with my wife, the archetype of the jam wife, reluctantly dragged to a show. Yeah. Or who knows a whole lot about the band but hates them, which is Gaffi's exact boat. She was at a conference and she's like a young woman in science. Uh, but most people in science are 55-year-old men, which is the exact fish demographic. And she was like moderating a panel, and they needed to, I don't know, they need to do some icebreakers. Like, I don't know, talk about your favorite band or whatever. And apparently everyone's like fish. And then she shocked them being being like, I know far more about this band than you might suspect. That's incredible. I'm helping her build connections in science.
SPEAKER_01Good. Good. It was it was great for her networking. Do you okay? Does that mean Jorge is your fish wife?
SPEAKER_02Ooh, salt wife? Yeah, a little bit. I think he feels the same role. Yeah. Man who has seen six shows and hates the band. Loves a good time with the homies. Okay. So we did jam, so I'm gonna skip Pal World and let's go to our bit. This is in honor of Ryan Kahill. Because as we established, the art of war somehow survived the death of Earth and uh and exists in this book.
SPEAKER_01By what is it? Sumansuru or Sumanzuno or yeah. Also, Kyle uh this confirms a theory that I've been working on, which is Kahill only read three books before he started the series. Just rule of time, Lord of the Rings, and the Art of War. And he said, That's good. I'm good with this.
SPEAKER_02And we'll get into this later, but like there are a bunch of scenes with Wrist where he's quoting the art of war to to Geramon. And we both did the Google. We're like, is this from our art of war? Yes, confirmed. Uh if listener, if you're wondering, uh pretty much direct quotes from well, how direct can it be? It's all translated, but same ideas. Okay, so I think this is a pretty classic bit for us at this point. Um, I've I've pulled uh three real quotes from the art of war, and I made up three quotes from my own art of war. And uh we're gonna we're gonna get Travis to guess which one is Wix. Six in total, three of each. What's the name of your art of war? The science of war. Okay. The science of peace. Tiger the artist, tiger the engineer. There we go. Okay. Um let's see where do I want to start? Okay, let's do this one. Never do by day that which you could do by night.
SPEAKER_01Fake.
SPEAKER_02Incorrect. Fuck. Nah, you're right. It was fake.
SPEAKER_01I was like, it's too much of a fun party mantra. Like that's that should be the motto of Ibiza.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Alright. Next up. Ponder and deliberate before you make a move.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that feels that feels ardivory.
SPEAKER_02Ponder and deliberate before you make a move.
SPEAKER_01Ah no, he was he would probably say act with like purpose and immediacy. Seize the opportunity. Act as the fox lying in the bush.
SPEAKER_02Uh no, I'm doing with my gut. Real. Correct. It's real. Damn, I'm a kind of fool me. I'm kind of bummed about what we're doing. I'm just really good at this. Yeah. Okay. Next up. Move swift as the wind and closely formed as the wood. Attack like the fire and be still as the mountain. Yeah, that's that's our boy Sun. You think that's Sun Tzu and not Avery Blank?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's either Muhammad Ali or Sun Tzu. I don't know. No, it's actually Kesha.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um is it really? No, your shit, your shit hot. It's real. That was Sun Tzu. Yeah. I mean Kesha knows what's up. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Uh next up. Give so that you might take. Take so that you might not be taken from. Ooh. Taken three.
SPEAKER_01Fake. Well done. Yeah. Okay, either I'm really good. I think you might be bad at these. I'm throwing it out there. Because Kahill got it.
SPEAKER_02Wait, Kahill got what? Well, no, we did stump Kahill pretty well. I tricked Kahill very well. The only time he got it right was when he did the numbers game. It's like, okay.
SPEAKER_01I think my anime, my fake anime titles were more successful to you.
SPEAKER_02They were good. This is the first time I've I've done badly here.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um I got one and one. Okay, so the next uh we got two left. One real, one fake. I'm gonna read them both. Uh to avoid the process of elimination issue. Okay, so quote number one the greatest victory is that which requires no battle. Next. Bamboo sways in the wind but does not break. Be not as the oak which cracks in a storm, holds your plans in a loose hand. First, real, second, fake. I don't like this game.
SPEAKER_01I worked hard on this. I think part of this might be I have actually read the stupid book like 10 years ago. But I truly believe mine were indistinguishable from the other war. I'll I think because I've read your novel like three times, I think I know your writing style.
SPEAKER_02I didn't use my own writing style in the books. Believe it. Yeah, my entire book is written in the style of Sun Tzu. I can't believe that. Never do by day that which you could do by night.
SPEAKER_01That's the club. That's the motto of the hottest nightclub in Miami. Live? Yeah. Is it? No, but it could be. Oh. And it should be.
SPEAKER_02I thought I was thinking about sneaking into tents, burning people, and turning into a wolf.
SPEAKER_01No, Sun Tzu's about honor.
SPEAKER_02He is. Yeah. He's it's a weird one about you gotta give your enemy an escape path.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we don't so they take it.
SPEAKER_02Is that to minimize the bloodshed? Or is it to maximize the bloodshed?
SPEAKER_01I think it's to minimize the bloodshed on both sides. Again, because the best the best battle is one that is easily avoided.
SPEAKER_02Do you yeah, okay, that's the famous one. Um Do you think we can get Sun on the show?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think we can do Sun and then we can do Homer for our Odyssey. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, announcement time?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you want to do it?
unknownWeird.
SPEAKER_02Because I just embarrassed myself.
SPEAKER_01Another book in a movie. This time, even more culturally relevant.
SPEAKER_02This time, poem in a movie. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Uh The Odyssey. Dun dun dun. By John Homer. Mr. Homer himself. Yeah. Yeah. We're reading the book. We're gonna watch the movie. That's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if we're are we gonna do that. It'll either be we're doing it before book four, right? Yeah, yeah, we'll put it out. After book four the iron's hot. Okay, okay. So one more episode of this, then the Odyssey, then back to our bullshit. Hell yeah, brother. We're not leaving Kyle hanging. How could we?
SPEAKER_01I also want to watch the Ralph Fines Odyssey movie. I don't know if you've seen that one. It came out like two years ago. It's supposed to be very late.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's not like the Dune with David Bowie in it. No, it's it's all about Oh no, wait, it had Sting in it. Dark Crystals David Bowie. Okay. Whatever.
SPEAKER_01But it's a brooding Ralph in the island after he returns stalking down his suitor prey.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um just letting you know, our that episode's gonna be mostly about the culture war, about casting, and we'll be very little about the poem.
SPEAKER_01So reminds me about the erosion of the American moral spirit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, that kind of I feel like we did do that with uh Project Hill Mary. Okay. I think we need to recenter. Donkey Balls. Donkey Balls. Should I hit the summary, Mr. Donkey Balls? Okay, feeling a little giggly here.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Sorry, we're doing chapters 36 to 63. Really big chunk of the book. We went for it.
SPEAKER_02We're now at 75%, which is very tidy. And actually, it was a great wrapping up. Great wrapping up, Coin. Very proud of us. Good job. Um okay, here we go. Chapter or summary of chapters 36 through 63 of War and Ruin by Ryan Cahill. Kalen dragged his company through hell to reach the shores of Italy and rescue Wrist, but turns out the Italians are freshed out of wrist stock, so they'll have to settle for Wrist's half-dead parents and town bully Fritz, mission accomplished. The clown car pulls up, and the knights of Acheron pile out with their giant shoes and squeaky noses. They say they're here to protect Kalen, and Kalen says some shit like, I'm not a puppet, I don't have strings in my hands, and my goodness, is that something we hear a lot in this section? The group then turns around and heads back into the Burn Lands. In what I can only describe as an act of artistic kindness, Kyle spares us a description of the back section of their out and back hike, and they eventually meet up with Asen, the puppet master in chief, Dan, and their retinue of freaks and weirdos. Kalen and Asen pay a visit to the Elves in the Darkwood, where Asen listens to his own biography as narrated by an elf and they plan for the coming revolution. Kalen is introduced to the Depressed Avengers, a br a bunch of Rekina who are maybe interested in aiding the Revolution and are definitely in no state to do so. Finally, Theron stops edging us and gives us the story of the chainbreaker, aka Kalen's dad aka, a guy who definitely should have told his kids a little bit about his past. He dueled the finest warriors in the land, freed a wolf god, and most importantly, became a pretty competent blacksmith in a small town. What a hunk! Oh, and Dan continues to hone his skills in whittling donkey balls. Back in magic school, Rist learns that his reward for passing the trial of faith is an internship with the Lorian army. Fun. What was supposed to be a routine skirmish with a mysterious elven force turns into a goddamn bloodbath when six elven dragons drop in off the top rope. Among the casualties are like 10,000 Lorian soldiers, a member of the Dragon Guard, and Nera's Right Boob, if I'm reading this correctly, which I'm probably not. Elsewhere, Ella Shakira Briar learns that there is a she-wolf in her closet. That wasn't supposed to sound dirty, and she does not want to let it out so it can breathe. But a wolf can a wolf, and now she's a throat-ripping murder machine. Ella, Tanner, Tanner, Farwin, and Co. have formed a guerrilla sabotage militia, and they're hot on the tail of the Lorian army, burning tents and sowing General Chaos. All the killing is going great until Ella runs into a mage and an elf who I'm 90% sure is Eltoar. On the brink of death, Ella snaps and unlocks a new druid ability, piloting an owl. Unfortunately, a single owl is not enough to kill an Imperial battle mage and Ella is captured. Lucky for her, our favorite coin-flipping friend zoned freak is in the camp and he breaks her out of prison, but not before she goes dog mode on that no-good traitor Wrist, who is also trying to set her free. Finally, El Tawar and his big dump choke of a dragon are involved in the fight, and we're getting some signs that after 400 short years, our little dragon riding idiot is thinking about trying to right his wrongs, which, as a reminder, include murdering all of his friends on behalf of the god of blood and pain. The end.
SPEAKER_01Well done. Thank you. Well done, sir. Yeah, that was a that's uh there's a lot of confluences of characters and events in this one. The convergence. The blood moon.
SPEAKER_02This is this book's blood moon. The taint grows. We are in the taint. And never been better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What did you think about this section? I thought it was really fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It was really fun. It was a lot more fun than part one and two, in my opinion. It started hot with the infiltration of um what do you call them? The torture boys. The Inquisition. The span the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh and it just kept it kept pretty hot. There was there were some parts I didn't love as much, like the Sanzu section and some of the Elven happenings towards the end. But overall the pacing was it was a lot more fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I felt some lulls, but like in looking back on it, definitely the highs are are wet or sticking out. Like, yeah, there were times in this section where I wasn't super psyched to pick up the book, but at the same time, I felt like every time that happened, you know, two chapters later, something great would happen. So yeah. Um the highs reverse is rewarded. Yeah. And nothing better in a big fantasy series than having your separated characters come back together.
SPEAKER_01Oh, the edging. That's the best. That's the best. I also didn't think we would get the ballad of the chainbreaker in its full rendition in this book. I know. Because they they teased us with uh Belina.
SPEAKER_02And it was like a more straight telling of it. I felt like when we got the story of the fall, it was more like mythic and and you know, it left more to the imagination for the novella. I feel like we got a pretty detailed account of what his dad did.
SPEAKER_01I had to do a channel, like, was that the novella? Like, are we good?
SPEAKER_02It's a five-page novella.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. He's he's just experimenting, he's getting shorter and shorter.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, his dad's a fucking badass man.
SPEAKER_01What do you do? Cool guy.
SPEAKER_02A real cool guy. A scary guy. Well, with a heart of gold. With a heart of gold. Yeah, just don't get on his bad side. I man, honestly, what jumped out was the whole capture to God, wolf god, them being kind of on earth. Yes. How many gods have we seen that we didn't know were gods? It was that goat on the crate. Goat on to crate, goat god? We call it the goat? Yes.
SPEAKER_01You know what else? The unicorn. Unihorn. The unicorn spawned.
SPEAKER_02Ahil said it was gonna come back. It's gotta come back. We know it's gonna. Yeah. I I think that will be really fun. Man, if I ever do a reread of this series, I feel like that's the sort of thing that's just gonna be like amazing on reread. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Just that one there. That one chapter is like earmarked for me now for the whole series. The the lore dump of the chainbreaker, because there's so much about the gods and human immigration and the ongans. It's just yeah. Also the fact that let's not over let's not sleep on the fact that Calen has an entire clan of Ongans on his side.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um can I so in my paperback edition of this book, the book cube, um, there is an illustration of one of the Angen, which Travis didn't see, but I I sent him a photo thoughts on the canonical depiction of the Angen. The wolf raring to get out when I saw that. Can you look at that photo and describe it to the listener? Yes. Paint a picture, paint a picture in the reader's mind.
SPEAKER_01I spy with my little eyes. A drunk artist's depiction of an alien up top with an elongated forehead, somehow no hair on its head.
SPEAKER_02But the It's both it's both furry and completely bald. It looks wet. Like a wet cat?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But strangely enough, the hairiest part of its whole body are its bushy old man eyebrows.
SPEAKER_02And frankly, it's very large pecs. I wasn't expecting them to be buff. Yeah, this guy's a benching.
SPEAKER_01It's weird because he's got like a lion's nose. You know, like one of them's a stag. So I'm thinking like, you know, they describe him as having the whatever those bowed bowed arms are.
SPEAKER_02I truly was picturing like a like a furry, like a dog with big anime eyes. Yeah. This is like a scary half man, half-lion. I don't I think the fur the furry man is better imagined than seen. I'd agree in this case. Seeing him fills me with fear and disgust.
SPEAKER_01Because it it also has me wondering, is this what Ella is turning into? Like when she's going pure wolf mode and her like nails are growing out and she's seeing the red mist. Is she also spouting wet hair and bushy eyebrows?
SPEAKER_02That's gonna be so tough when we find out Rhett isn't dead and he comes back and finds that. I did his wife is now a now a furry.
SPEAKER_01I liked the recurring bit where her nose keeps getting broken in every single fight scene. Crazy.
SPEAKER_02We've got to save Ella because there's so much. Can we stay on can we keep doing lore corner slash god corner for a little bit?
SPEAKER_01Lore corner?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, let's do it. So This is Bass Accra. I was going to talk about the whole convergence blood moon thing. I don't care. That's what you were thinking.
SPEAKER_01Reader, if you're this deep into us, into uh whoa.
SPEAKER_02Ha ha freezing.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02Shout out to the taint.
SPEAKER_01Don't stop. Um, if you're this deep into the podcast, you don't need us to to go in chronological order here. You want to you want to hear about the lore.
SPEAKER_02Well, we often don't. So I don't know why we're prefacing this. Okay. Lower corner. Cue up that song.
SPEAKER_00Lower corner.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Blood Moon's. Okay. I'm I'm sorry. Callinvar has been hearing voices, and we had theorized that they were the voices of the devil. That theory isn't dead, but it's not looking good. It seems like he might have just been hearing from Acheron because he's he's uh transported to the ethereal realm where he speaks with a 30-year-old man who was 12 feet tall. With full of green.
SPEAKER_01Very green.
SPEAKER_02That's his whole thing.
SPEAKER_01Um and it's interesting. What did you think the realm was that they were in?
SPEAKER_02I was kind of wondering if it was the plane of the gods.
SPEAKER_01It's so it could be another. Go ahead. I think it's like an intermediate realm, almost like a transit transitory realm, because he said he'd like really risked it bringing pulling Calambar into it, but also that the gods were looking for him there now that they noticed he was there. So either he's hiding an isn't welcome or something in the realm of the gods, or there's like a I don't know, pocket dimension. Yeah. That he was using.
SPEAKER_02I feel like this is super wrong, but uh I don't know. I was just thinking of that line where they talk about like humans coming to the continent and bringing their gods with them. It's like, I don't know. What if this is the old continent? That's that's a good point. Like if the gods have their eyes fixed on one place. I don't know. Uh it feels like and they got big birds. Big birds. Not probably as plot important as that goat. Goat's gonna be a big deal, but still notable. Okay, so the oh man, there's so much I want to discuss. One, convergence is coming, blood moon. Yep. Interesting note, I kind of thought the blood moon would be the whole big shebang here.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_02This is just the beginning, folks, which makes sense time-wise because it's coming up real soon. But um, yeah, he warns him like blood moon coming, uh, you know, a lot of taint. There's gonna be a rift, fix it, but also monstrous war after that. So uh yeah, we'll see how that goes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh comforting to hear from your god or not so much. I don't think his god gave him enough info. He's like, You've seen some creepy creatures, they're gonna be way worse. It's like, well, how about let's get specific? Do they have any elemental weaknesses? How many hit points do they have? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, what does that mean? Let's just say they're gonna be scary things. Like yeah, I expected that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, it's weird, it's gotta be a little freaky to hear, hey, those pesky little fades that keep killing all your friends. Yeah, those are just bugs.
SPEAKER_02Like, cool. So, what tools do you do you have to help us kill something worse than a fade? Because those have been killing us pretty consistently.
SPEAKER_01The curious thing that there were many curious things about this for me, but he mentions Acheron mentions that the other gods were meddling. And it didn't seem like they were meddling in a very positive light. And I don't think it was only a fial tier.
SPEAKER_02No. And does that mean the big gods, or could it also mean like the wolf god that we were just talking about?
SPEAKER_01I would assume it meant his pantheon. That's what I thought too. I was just as we were discussing what's wrong. Well, we're we're thinking about like Haraya and some of the other that's the only one I can remember right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay. Um yeah, I mean, it's like all fantasy series. At some point it's gonna get weird and cosmic. And I don't know when that all feels like book four.
SPEAKER_01I'd imagine it. I'm getting about you didn't read this far, but I'm getting a lot of John Gwen flashbacks here about the convergence. Um and the two kind of warring god armies coming into the plane of existence all at once.
SPEAKER_02Um You know what I think would be awesome if we get all the other gods, at least not the evil ones, those meddlers. I want them to make something like the Knights of Acheron. Like we got a big war coming. We're gonna bestow some gifts upon people.
SPEAKER_01Almost like the Knights Radiant.
SPEAKER_02Exactly like the Knights Radiant. I mean, I know Kahill wouldn't he wouldn't do something that's been done before in another book. So, you know, maybe we'll cross that off never.
SPEAKER_01What do you think would be the most fun god? Because uh it almost feels like we're setting up for an Avengers, like the new Avengers movies where everybody is in it, like the X-Men and the Guardians of the Galaxy and stuff. Because we have all the different pantheons of gods. What's what would be your ideal god crossover from another fantasy series? Who's dropping to bring into this one? Yeah. Who's Acheron calling in his Rolodex to come in and join the fight?
SPEAKER_02Or Hollem from the Black Prism, and then everyone gets to wear cool sunglasses. And then we introduce an incredibly convoluted magic system in the last book. That would be amazing. What about you? I would say Yahweh.
SPEAKER_01Give me the biblical, give me the Abrahamic god. Yeah, I I think somebody from the c the Cosmere would be really fun. Just Kelsier.
SPEAKER_02Uh that or Hadrian Marlowe. I mean, if you want a guy to end a war, give him a call. Okay. We kind of haven't talked about any characters. That's kind of fun.
SPEAKER_01Just open with a real lower corner. I was gonna do the other lower corner about the change. Which one? Did we already do that? I guess we did. Well, it sounds like it works. Okay, this is the only couple of notes because we we talked about the main stuff. Uh, yeah, you can capture a god and runes and starglass can hurt them, which felt starglass.
SPEAKER_02That's very interesting.
SPEAKER_01Starglass felt like a a drop in there, god killing weapons. Um and then uh confirmation that Fanir, Ella's wolf, is like wolf cub.
SPEAKER_02I when they said captured a god that was a wolf, that was my first thought. It's like, oh my god, Ella's got a pet god. But um, it doesn't seem that way.
SPEAKER_01But it is a magical wolf. Yeah, maybe the kid of the god or something like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Also, Fanier's now the size of a horse. Wait, we need to get a war horse check. I feel like that's our unit of measurement, is like everything as compared to a war horse.
SPEAKER_01Because the black, what are they, the blackthorns?
SPEAKER_02Dude, there was a reference to it in one of the last chapters I read.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. They're the they're the big Lorien horse, war horse riders.
SPEAKER_02Oh, they were in the chainbreaker segment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Big chonkers.
SPEAKER_01Also, some of the names in there were awesome. Like uh Johnny Longtooth. Yeah. And then Race Gearin. Buff Big Chess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Thromb. That should have been there. He also arm wrestled Erdhard Hammersmith. And lost. But it was bring it back. I was yes, I meant to bring that up. Why is the best character in the series not in this fucking book?
SPEAKER_01If you're gonna pick up 40 stragglers from Barona and they're not Erdhard Hammersmith, yeah, just just throw him in.
SPEAKER_02I don't care how little sense it makes. Have Erdhard Hammersmith join someone. Get him on a wyvern. What do I care? Yeah. He's gonna ride to wyvern like a like a chariot, because he's too big. A wheel and beard chariot. Okay. This is not a good episode thus far, but I'm in keeping with what we're doing. I have a I have a theory for you. Yeah. Remind me to talk about the theories we texted about because I think those are. You did have a good theory. This is this one's a little more goofy, but I think it could be right. Okay, as established, Fainir's now at least the size of a war horse. When there's a druid, the animals get bigger. Why can men not ride wyverns? Men are too chunky. But we get a druid involved, wyverns increase in size, Dane gets to ride a wyvern, fulfilling a childhood dream. It's like the never-ending story.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, I can see it happen because in Ella's little segment of seeing the animals of the universe, she can she can poke the dragons. So she could definitely poke the wyvern. Why not ping them?
SPEAKER_02Cacao. Yeah. Um, okay, that's theory corner, which we will revisit during Ella's segment. Should we do character stuff? Yeah. What 30 minutes in? Do you want to do another draft? Yeah, let's do another draft. I liked that. You can start. Okay. Farda. He's the best character in this series.
SPEAKER_01Finally. I missed him for so much. The best.
SPEAKER_02He's the best. I was I was just, I was, I was thinking about Farda. I was like, what a wonderful guy Cahill's made. He's so interesting.
SPEAKER_01He's such a it's a simple premise. It's like two things, like a guy regaining his lost emotions and a guy who's beholden to a coin flip to kill people.
SPEAKER_02And it's perfect. He's yeah, he's just so great. Like I really I mean, I think as the deeper we get, I feel like the characters are sort of what are standing out to me, is the best part about this series. Like everyone feels very distinct, they got good motivations. Travis is about to push back on me. That's hot take. Oh yeah, come back. Yeah, push back on me.
SPEAKER_01Calen is the worst character.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, I agree. No, I mean I don't agree, but I agree in like a ESPN 8 a.m. debate show kind of way. Yeah. My Stuart Scott brain. I think it's a main character thing. It's like he's the most neutral. He's like this blank slate. Um and he just doesn't have as much personality as some of the other characters. He's like very brave and you know, whatever, and a little angry, but I'm a little sick of him talking to his dragon. Yeah, I get it. I think I think at this point we understand that that's his best bud, and that it's very bad if your best bud dies.
SPEAKER_01We get it. Really established that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And now at this point, if Valeris doesn't die, it's like, well, what was the point of all that? And so then I'm cheering for Valeris to die, which I don't really want.
SPEAKER_01And just from a writing perspective, everything that Kaylin encounters now, like any emotional blip, good, bad, whatever, scared, angry, he immediately like nuzzles Valeris's snout and says, like, my soul, my bond to your stranded. And it's like, bro, you gotta chill. You're getting a lot of season with this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's like that, and then if anything even vaguely goes bad, it's like Valeris is like a dog who barks at the mailman. It's like, okay, Valeris, you don't have to fucking threaten to rip someone's head off every time someone breathes near Kaelin.
SPEAKER_01I think it's a product of creatures. I think this is a product of teen drinking. Yeah, too much mead, you think? Did you see the quote where he said, I drank myself in a stupor for two years after Haym died? It's like, brother, you are 16.
SPEAKER_02The mead is hitting. I don't know what to tell you.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, so yeah, when you get drunk for two years in your teens, then God knows what's gonna happen to you.
SPEAKER_02Jesus. Okay. Um anyway, we're fardo. Who are we talking about? Oh, we're talking about Farda. Oh, we're stuck at this. Okay, he's back. We love him. That's the important part. And he's back with his dragon-bound buddies. Yeah, that is so fascinating seeing him just like coming to the camp, like, hey, long time no see. Eltoire, what up my man? My buddy Eltoire. Yeah, it's been 800 years. Like, and it's weird seeing other people, like I don't know if they're friends, but there's something close to friends. It's hard to imagine anyone being friends with Farda. And it's fascinating seeing him with his classmates.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and there's they're so warm to each other. They're very Yeah. It is a it is a cool friendship to see, even though they're obviously on the wrong side of the story right now.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah. I mean, maybe pin and it will get to it later, but yeah, the whole we talked about this, like what is the relationship between the Empire and the Dragon Guard? Yeah, and we have gotten some answers, I think, and we'll be uh monitoring that closely.
SPEAKER_01Mixed would be my answer to that question. Mixed, yeah. Very mixed.
SPEAKER_02Not a cohesive unit necessarily. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so we're hanging out in the war camp where you know all the big armies of the Lorian Empire are kind of coming together. There's this horde that has been killing people across the country, an unknown entity. Uh, but it's shrouded in a deep, like five-mile-long fog bank. So they're all figuring out what to do with it. Uh yeah, it's elves.
SPEAKER_02It's like the outer sunset. Yeah, it's a San Francisco joke for yeah. Uh yeah, Carl the Fog. Okay. I completely forgot to Google the Elven badass warrior queen's name. Is she new to us? Did you look it up?
SPEAKER_01She, to my knowledge, was new. This elven like tribe was not new to us. But Princess Vandrian is the Elven queen.
SPEAKER_02She was a badass. Jesus. No, I like that. And she offers the door. Oh well. That offer looks better in retrospect.
SPEAKER_01It's a you said it yourself. Give your enemy an escape route.
SPEAKER_02Sun Zoo said that. I can't take credit for Sun. I'm not sure if that book's public domain now. 400 BC.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, clearly hard to find an elf if you've never fought an elf.
SPEAKER_02Tell me you've never fought an elf without telling me you've never fought an elf. Magnus?
SPEAKER_01It's not a heel turn because he didn't necessarily change as a character. I went from loving Magnus to fucking hating Magnus in the second.
SPEAKER_02Is he the guy who said what I just said?
SPEAKER_01Yes. He's the big, really, really big general who uh calls the woman the Uruk Urrux splitter.
SPEAKER_02Uruk splitter. No, I know Magnus. Yeah, yeah. I guess, yeah, he was supposed to be the lovable, hard-drinking, rough around the edges, Viking man.
SPEAKER_01Um he gets annoying in the section. I hate that.
SPEAKER_02That line, tell me you've never fought an that was the closest to like that was millennial cringe. I I dare say it was. Yeah. That's like the they're behind me, aren't they? Ugh. But I feel like that's I feel like we like that Kyle has some humor in here. And uh, you know, for every good you take you have to put up with the Millennial Cringe joke to get the good jokes. And yes, no one bats a thousand.
SPEAKER_01If we were just going chain of dogs here, it would just be depressing. So yeah, thank you for lightning the mood. Yeah. Um, because we do we get a pretty fierce and pitched battle. Uh I was I was really surprised in the scene. I don't know how it hit for you, but the Lorean battle mages were doing an unbelievable job killing elves. The Fisher, the Fisher technique and Dragon's Mall. The Fisher was fantastic. Yeah. Reverse lightning field or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It was this was a scene that I was frankly not looking forward to. I thought it was gonna be another version of the Carathlon fights. It was all right, we just gotta watch some teeth get snapped and fucking whatever happens in these fights. Um, this was great. Like this went in a direction I completely didn't expect. And I'd been intrigued about the elves because there'd been a lot of like refugees flooding into the city. Like we'd heard about elves killing people. So what's some of that? That feels kind of weird. Is that true? Yeah. Um, so we get to see them and obviously six dragons. Six more than I expected to see on the other side.
SPEAKER_01I didn't expect that at all.
SPEAKER_02They've been delusional. We've got six elven dragons, and we've got a bunch of blind fucked up dragons. Um how many of the elven ones did they kill? Two or three?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I thought three, but then later they said they said two.
SPEAKER_02I thought both of the like non-Helios dragons had died.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it actually I got confused. I thought the uh Linalian died instead of Pelinor. Also, man, we just met Pelinor and he was really cool. I was actually kind of bummed.
SPEAKER_02I was I mean, yes, when I do meet a new character and I'm like, I'm gonna have to learn their name and their deal. I do get filled with a little bit of fear. Um that said, I kind of was looking forward to like getting to know all of the Dragon Riders. Um, and now we lost one of the sane ones.
SPEAKER_01So out of nowhere. Man, no, yeah, nobody was expecting that. Nobody knew these elves had the shit up their sleeve. Really bad research by Faye Morton. How involved is he in the day-to-day? I'm just saying what's been doing. It's been hundreds of years, and you have no intel on the elves. Didn't come up.
SPEAKER_02Actually, I would love to see his like like his Mark Wahlberg 9 to 5. And then his 5-9, you know? 4 a.m. pray to the 4 a.m. pray 402 Saratoga bottled water, 403. Calls with my ops, tell them I hate them.
SPEAKER_01405, play nine holes of golf. 410, work out.
SPEAKER_02Wake up my lazy wife and ask her to cook. Okay. Shout out Mark Wahlberg.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But yeah, we get an eye for an eye. Two elven dragons are down, but at the cost of Pelinor. And uh Helios goes nuts. Uh Eltoire goes nuts. Helios is a big deal. Helios is a big boy.
SPEAKER_02Size matters, man. Um I really kind of think he could have killed the remaining dragons and would have if they hadn't flown away. Yeah, but it's weird. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01They don't want to kill the dragons. They really don't.
SPEAKER_02No. That's yeah, that's sort of what we were talking about with like the whole Fisher between Fisher, uh, between the Dragon Guard and the Empire. They like want to look out for their own. They don't want to see the end of like the era of dragons. So the idea that a new one hatched, yeah, even though he's in opposition to the empire, that might be more important to them than supporting the empire, which you know it and it seems like we're heading that way.
SPEAKER_01Like they want Kalen to go light the dragon cave torch, you know, and talk to all the homies.
SPEAKER_02Can I can I offer a world-building note here? Yes. I think 400 years was too long. I think when I'm thinking about like Asen saying, like, I want it to blow my head off every day. I was like, 400 years? Surely there's a day where you do it. And then Eltawar is like, I've been feeling bad about this for the past 400 years. I can't live with myself if I do something bad for like a month. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There's also to my earlier point, just a general lack of information among all these parties. Like we they don't know how many Jotnar giants there are. Like clearly nobody knew where this entire 50,000 elven army was.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's fucking highly trained, very advanced society.
SPEAKER_01It feels like everyone was just sitting on their resting on their laurels for 400 years, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we were just mostly taking people's firstborns and hanging out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I think you might be right. It doesn't quite add up the further we get through this.
SPEAKER_02It's not like the time gap's cool, but I think it could have been a hundred years. Yeah. Same effect. Oh well. Truly honestly hasn't affected my enjoyment at all. But when I just think about Asen suffering for 400 years, I think, my goodness, that's a long time.
SPEAKER_01Especially when you got two swords on you, you know.
SPEAKER_02400 years ago was William Shakespeare. Think about that.
SPEAKER_01Oh man. Crazy. Craig Craig. But yeah. Farda.
unknownFarda.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then afterwards. It's hard to yeah, this is the hard part about talking before we could go character by character because everyone's fucking isolated. I know we're talking all together. Okay. So should we just talk about uh his uh soon-to-be girlfriend? Ella coming back. A I have a proposition.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02We talk about Ella first, then we come back to her eventual rescue.
SPEAKER_01I think we do Ella and Rest back to back. And then the scene where they all converge.
SPEAKER_02I'll start. My draft, Ella. I don't like the visual of her having fangs and claws. Scares me.
SPEAKER_01It scares me too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it scares her, I suppose. Oh, yeah, that's real freaky, man. And all the her friends that she's fighting with are also freaked out. They're like, hey, please control this.
SPEAKER_02I have a question. Why wasn't this in Druids A Magic Lost?
SPEAKER_01Right? Probably because everyone went crazy and couldn't figure out how to write again afterwards.
SPEAKER_02Well, no. It was really it was written by a guy who was not a druid. He could have been like, yes, and then he turned into a giant bear and had teeth and claws. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, Verathon didn't say that the god was gonna talk to you, you know. These guys leave some stuff out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess so. I don't know. Yeah, Veratin, good god. They should have a handbook.
SPEAKER_01They they were supposed to. It had nothing important in it. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Well, anywho, Ella. Um, did were you interested in the whole uh raiding party tanner stuff?
SPEAKER_01Well, I thought it was really funny that Cahill shut down your uh Tanner boyfriend theory by having an entire section of how to do it. I haven't given up on it. I don't care.
SPEAKER_02I'm dug in. I won't change my mind. I don't care about all those stillborn children that they had. He thinks he thinks Ill is hot. Or at least did before she turned into an animal. And then his wife decided to come to his getaway trip with his new fling. Um I just that was that was actually a very sweet moment between Tan and his wife. Um talk about just, you know, they were never able to have kids.
SPEAKER_01This group is very wholesome. Uh I mean they are murdering people in the night by burning them alive in their tents. But yeah. Outside of that, the Farwin, Corinne, Tanner group is is I like them.
SPEAKER_02Wait what is his his wife's name? I know they're not married, but whatever. You're really gonna make me make me scroll all the way down. Anyway, you don't need to do that because the point I was gonna make. I think you've no, you know, if we enough wheel of time for me to make this point. I feel like she is what Nynaeve should have been in the early books. Oh, interesting. She's like a hothead, but she's caring and has a good heart, and you know, you know, you love her in spite of it, as opposed to abusive.
SPEAKER_01Um I think what what I'm I'm curious about is are any characters from this point on in the books, are any characters without special powers gonna be very relevant to us? Um looking at you, Dan. That's number one on my list. But also like those side characters, I feel like as the plot gets more complicated, they're gonna take a back seat to everyone who's doing freaky alien shit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, look no further than we haven't thought about Dickka Dicka in 300 pages, and I have no clue how Dalin is gonna reintegrate in a meaningful way. Um I just don't know how important his services are at this point. Yeah. Yeah, that's a tough one. That's toughy. Um we'll see. Do you think anything's gonna come of Dan's whittling? It's like, surprise, you whittled a good enough head, and now you are an elf.
SPEAKER_01You know, it would be really funny if he become like he can like he can create like phantoms of the things he whittles or something.
SPEAKER_02Like no one tells him that it's ex it's insanely badass if he completes it, he's just gonna accidentally do it and it gives him power of a god. I feel like the uh Balden is like all about it. He's like, keep going, young man. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna put that in uh uh I'm gonna lodge that as a fringe theory. Good fringe theory. You think that's more fringe than the chunky wyvern?
SPEAKER_01No, no, actually, I think that's more mainstream.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, question. What the fuck were they putting in the milk at the farm in the glade? That one son is a dragon-bound killing machine, and the daughter is a wolf lady.
SPEAKER_02I had more questions about this before I heard the ballad of the chainbreaker. And now, I don't know, dude. It's like Shaquille O'Neal's kids are gonna be big, you know? Yeah, so um they got a badass dad, they got great genes. Yeah, they're probably great killers. They're the children of the best killer in the land. BBB. Thank you, Lavar Ball. Free to God, so that sort of accounts for Ella's stuff. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but basically, what what's actually happening with Ella is they're picking off scouts and stragglers from the Lorien Army, they're biding their time. Yeah. Um wrists Lorien Army. Yes, that's company. Exactly. And uh she's slowly going a little bit more wolf mode every time, just a little bit a little bit more killing.
SPEAKER_02Which is uncomfy, and she finds a bit frightening.
SPEAKER_01Uh especially when they make their main attack on the camp and she keeps burninating the tents.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she does have like a little flash of conscience. She's like, Am I just killing innocent people? Yeah, whatever. Yeah. I bet we'll revisit that. Um I think so. But I mean it's good to see. I'm glad Kyle's nodding at that because, like, you know, a lot of people serve in the army for a lot of reasons, and burninating all of them is not the best. Uh it's good the characters are thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01Um and then we get the the big showdown. So Farwin starts fighting. I th I couldn't tell if it was El Twar or another one of the like Rekina or Dragon Bounds, but it's Yeah, I think it was one Rekina and then El Twar was the white-haired person.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah. I I searched on Kindle for the word white and scrolled through all 300 something graphics until I it's El Twar, he has white hair. And he's an elf, and this person was an elf. So yeah, so that's who takes him down. Yeah. Um, but in the process, new power unlocked, level up. My goodness. Holy cow power.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. She sees a better animal. The spectral plane.
SPEAKER_02Should I say that this reminds me of something from Wheel of Time, or you just want to keep going?
SPEAKER_01You've already said it now.
SPEAKER_02So we can't. Never mind. Um, well, what about the wolf thing reminding me of Wheel of Time?
SPEAKER_01That's fair because it also reminded me of Wheel of Time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Shut up, Perrin.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but yeah, so I guess she can like, yeah, she sort of leaves her body and can sense the uh the life essence of every living critter around her.
SPEAKER_01And I I love that she pokes the biggest one that it's like Helios. She's like, we all get the fuck out of here. And no thank you. Goodbye.
SPEAKER_02Okay, how about an owl? I'm excited for that. I'm excited for the inevitable training sequence. She's like, what's it like to be an ant? I'm gonna be a bug. Just getting sick. Oh my god. I'm gonna carry a rock. Yeah. That's fun. I'm excited to see where this goes. The druid stuff is different than I thought it would be and pretty fucking helpful.
SPEAKER_01Pretty cool. Um yeah. And then also Eltoir lets Farwin go.
SPEAKER_02Yep. I mean, old classmates. That's the thing. They look out for their own.
SPEAKER_01Should we do wrist's backstory before we get to the triple convergence?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I am a bit struggling to remember if there's anything wrist before he finds out that he's gonna have to go serve in the army. Because that's how he not much.
SPEAKER_01It's his rationalization of why he activated the dark essence.
SPEAKER_02Oh shit. Wow, last time we didn't see him do that.
SPEAKER_01Right. This was Oh my goodness, I thought this was basically like post-decision, and I don't like his argument at all.
SPEAKER_02I'm taking my talents to FEL tier.
SPEAKER_01Well, he's like, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
SPEAKER_02People kill people. And listen, if I have a gun, that's not so bad.
SPEAKER_01Like, once I get the biggest gun, I'm gonna save the world. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But from what yeah. Riss just wrist didn't know about the Cold War. No. Yeah. Okay. That was interesting. I mean, I honestly like, yeah, we can poke fun of it because of American gun culture, but like I don't think it's a I don't think it's a crazy conclusion for him to come to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I just think it I I wasn't fully bought into his his transition to like this is the only community that I'm accepted in, and I feel like I fully belong here. I completely agree. Yeah, it felt a little too quick because he went from doubtful, always a little intellectual, and now he's like fully drank the Kool-Aid overnight.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It is like, I think more than many, many other authors, Cahill understands when there might be gaps in the logic of his books. And it feels like as soon as I have a question, he does answer it, you know, whether it's a good or bad answer. But like I was having these thoughts about wrist, and then sure enough, wrist is like, why am I fighting for these fucking people that all my village hates? Well, they're family. Yeah. It took me in, I'm learning magic. All right, let's do it, baby. And he's yeah, and I didn't like it's good that he knows we're gonna be asking those questions, like he understands his characters and his readers really well, but it just didn't quite land for me. And maybe it's not supposed to because like he's probably not gonna end up being for the empire forever. Like maybe it's supposed to be tenuous.
SPEAKER_01I almost wondered if there was supposed to be a parallel line between him and Fritz, like joining the Empire, and yeah, but then I I didn't feel like it was super fleshed out.
SPEAKER_02So there's uh you could probably draw the same line with Kalen, right? Like both of them have to some extent been drafted into these causes that they didn't really enlist themselves in.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, it's maybe it's it's three responses to getting drafted into a bigger cause. There's Kahil, or sorry, Kalen being I'm not your puppet, bitch, and wrist being like, I'm gonna play it like a little close to the chest, but I like these people. And then Fritz being like, I'm gonna murder anyone so I can get into it.
SPEAKER_02I'm pretty scared, and I'll do literally whatever you tell me. I'll cut people.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Um anyway.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01He survives the dragon battle, barely. His girlfriend survives, but with a big old gash.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Did she get her boob cut off, man? It seemed like it got sliced. It said he just I don't know why I was so fixated on that. It just said he looked down and part of her chest was flatter. It's like, ugh, brutal. Oof. Near, I'm sorry. Um yeah. Also, didn't Farda save her?
SPEAKER_01Uh uh yeah. Yeah, it was it was uh they referred to him by his last name, so it confused me for a sec.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was like completely not aware of Farda's last name until this sequence.
SPEAKER_01But Farda's he's feeling some emotions. Um so maybe that that brings us all together. We're all in camp now. Ella, Farda, and Rist. Set the stage. What happens?
SPEAKER_02They um are attempting to imprison her, but I guess when she's when she's dog mode, she's very strong and she keeps biting andor killing people. Uh Fanier, they had to forge new chains because the war horse-sized wolf keeps breaking them and again killing people. Um, but they are keeping her alive because she's a druid. Um word eventually gets to Farda. Um I can't remember exactly what the set of circumstances is, but um, he's in the tent and he's like, oh my fucking god, that's Ella. What is going on? Uh tries to play it cool. Yeah, yeah. And then I think not so good for him hiding his plan. She looks at him and says, Barta. Uh you know this dog lady? I was like, no, no, never heard of her. Don't have no questions. I'm going to bed. Um, so yeah, he starts hatching his plan. Wrist gets word too. So um, and not a great plan to break her out and they end up uh well killing a lot of people. Yeah. As as it goes, you know. I don't know. I don't know how else they were gonna do it. It was funny that like wrist stole the keys to the cage, and farda was like, honestly, I thought that was too simple. Would have done that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you think they're gonna be a little buddy, buddy comedy duo going forward? Farda and Wrist?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would love that. Um, I also was annoyed by now. I know he had to get her out. I feel like they could have sorted all this out in 20 seconds between Ella and Wrist. Yeah. Truly, he could have been like, Kaelin, what? Drawlate, hold on. And then everything would have been solved. But but man, I guess that's gonna make man. I can't wait to check in with wrist after this.
SPEAKER_01I know. I'm actually this this sets up, it was a great stopping point because the the last quarter of this book is is very exciting to think about now. The implications.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. I heard they wouldn't say no. Okay. Um I think that's basically it. Do you any theories about where he's taking her? Varda pointedly says, I'm not telling you wrist where I'm taking her.
SPEAKER_01My only thought is they've talked about some of the hidden enclaves of like the Farwin Corrin group, you know, some of the Rakina who are like adjacent to Asen. Um yeah, so I'm I'm not sure. There might be some some like tentative allies there. He's not taking him taking her to Asen, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, how much is I we've seen a lot more of Eltawar like kind of considering his loyalty to the Empire? Do we is Farta rethinking things or is he just a lovesick puppy?
SPEAKER_01I think Farta doesn't know how to handle the emotions he hasn't felt in 400 years, and so he's just reacting. And honestly, it's probably kind of freeing.
SPEAKER_02So would he is him leaving the Empire to be with Ella sort of like me moving to LA for Kathy? The most romantic thing you can do for your partner. Yeah, she listens to this, she's gonna be so mad at me. No, it's an act of it's a it's listen, I live to surf. Yeah, you surf every day. No, I not as much as I should. I'm gonna be nicer. Okay. Um yeah, I think that that wraps it up, and not much more to say about wrist other than he almost got his throat ripped out by Ella. And yeah, cool. Do you want to touch on Eltawar before we leave, or do you think we've kind of hit No, no, we've hit El Toir.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I was wondering if we go quickly to Dalin for one minute before we do Kalen.
SPEAKER_02I don't even I literally do not remember checking in with him. Alright.
SPEAKER_01Also, don't really love the Dalin character arc at this point, but he's convinced he should rejoin Papa. So he's gonna go run back to Asian. Yeah. Um and there's there's some good Dalin, like Belina bits here, but she wants to go reunite with Dane and Voltara. Yep. Oleg wants them to escort refugees. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, they got they they're now on a side quest. So now they're side questing, and we won't see them for the rest of the book 100%.
SPEAKER_02Really? I don't think so. You could see like a one-chapter check-in. It's like, well, we've arrived.
SPEAKER_01Maybe. Yeah. But the two questions I had here. Well, also his dwarf lover comes on the journey, which is really exciting for him. Their, their dwarf lover. I'm sorry, their little menacit.
SPEAKER_02Stop sniffing a little three-way. Ryan, write it. Don't chicken out.
SPEAKER_01No, the only romance he can write is between a man and his dragon.
SPEAKER_02And uh and a man and his sister, little monkey. Little monkey.
SPEAKER_01Uh cut the tension with a knife. I had two open questions from this. One was, how come they can just send a hawk now? Why didn't they send that at any point during the Dickadicka arc?
SPEAKER_02Don't ask that. Stop. And the second down that road.
SPEAKER_01Is the Lorien Empire just not outside the tunnels waiting for them? And why didn't they just leave before? It's not.
SPEAKER_02That's what I think there is like either last episode or the one prior, I was complaining about how I don't understand where Belduir like I just didn't have a good visual of the dwarven freehold v. Beldoir or whatever. I was like, can't they just fucking not be in the mountain? Yeah. Like go home. Yeah, where's what's going on at Belduir right now? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Is it possessed by the other? Or did they just burn it out and leave? I assume they burnt it and left because there's pressing matters to attend to.
SPEAKER_02It's gotta be some weird shit with the tunnels and the wind runners and all that stuff. And there's a button. Yeah. There's no chance Cahill doesn't answer this question in the text.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's not his style.
SPEAKER_01But um But anyway, those are my open questions. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Moving on. Calen. Do we have to? No. Okay. Um this is uh this is an exercise in poor information gathering.
SPEAKER_01You mean the Inquisition infiltration? Yes. I don't know because what are what were the odds that there was a same-aged boy from the glade being held in the exact place that they needed to go to?
SPEAKER_02I just felt like they were really locked in on the idea that he was in prison. And they should have spent like weeks there hanging out, trying to figure stuff out. I agree. Where is he? We know that he's magical. Perhaps they're training him. What was the plan? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01They gave up so fast.
SPEAKER_02They gave up so fast. I know that they they've kind of killed some people and needed to bail. I get that, but lie low. You have a dragon. It was just such a weird series of events after this like epic horrible journey through the burned lands, and for one reason, and and then they weren't that persistent.
SPEAKER_01There's also just like I don't understand the physical recovery that they managed to do in one day between Burnt Lands 1 and Burnt Lands Two. Like Varyl was like on his deathbed, and then they just beat it on back through the desert.
SPEAKER_02And then and like the psychological aspect of it. Like, I don't think anyone would be ready to go back in and have to fucking tie themselves to a cot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I guess they threw in like one new healer and a couple knights, and that was somehow enough.
SPEAKER_02I mean, but they didn't know until they got in there that the knights were gonna shield them from the madness. Right. They didn't know if it was gonna work for them. Yeah, yeah. Crazy. Um, okay. All that said, um Inquisition itself, super fun. That whole recovery mission was wonderful, and just like running into wrists' parents and Fritz was great. Um, yeah, really fun.
SPEAKER_01Love a good heist. Love a heist. Um Rindle, good villain. That guy sucks.
SPEAKER_02He sucked. He sucks. Did you know that his little acolyte was Fritz?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he, when they originally kidnapped that elf from Beldwar, it's with Fritz.
SPEAKER_02So when they're like Fritz, whoa.
SPEAKER_01It's uh Gaeleron is the elf, and he's been getting tortured since Beldwar day one. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Toughest elf in the land. I wonder if there's some magical reason why he didn't break, or if he's actually just a badass motherfucker. I think he's just a cool guy, but uh with one hand.
SPEAKER_01Man, Kalen uh does not hesitate. No.
SPEAKER_02I can I can we go to hypocrite corner for a second? Yeah. I think Kalen should be nicer to Asen because uh Kalen just made a bunch of people march through the burned land so he could find his friend and then kill this one guy. I feel like Asen's doing the same thing on a way larger scale, having suffered way more, and Kalen's like, I lost my dad. Yeah Kalen, shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_01But Kalen apologized over and over again for what he was making them do. Okay, well all he wanted was Aelin worst character in the book. All Kalen wanted was for Asen to apologize, and they made up later on.
SPEAKER_02They did. They're they're making progress. They are. I think the the blow up was good for them ultimately. But um okay. And also I feel like we were all wondering why uh Risk's parents were writing such nice chipper letters to him. Called that. Um yeah, forgery theory uh confirmed. Yes. Check check one for us. This is great.
SPEAKER_01And on the the exit, once they they do the rescue mission, I thought that they were gonna show down with Fane for a second. I thought Pelinor was Fane, and I was like, oh yeah. Because he was so like instantly powerful, weaving through everyone and like clearly stronger than their whole party put together. Yeah, that would have been sick.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Here's my question. Why were they holding and torturing Rist's parents? You know, it seems Because they didn't take everyone from the glade. They kind of just killed their people and left. I think insurance. That was my only thought. Was like, well, we can't have this guy's parents like trying to get him to come home and work on the farm.
SPEAKER_01Well, I was thinking more as a last resort. Like if Rist doesn't do the trial of faith, they're like, we're gonna kill your parents if you don't.
SPEAKER_02Oh, because they're like, we don't want to burn the spark out of the best mage we found in a hot minute. Yeah. Oh, that's a very that was my that was like that. That's a great thing. Yeah, that would make sense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Or they frame Kalen later on. Like Kalen's the one who tortured your parents. That's a more of a reach. It's more of a reach, but it's a possibility. But it would have an effect. It would certainly have an effect. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um but anyway. Um, and uh Fritz, great to have him back in the story. Um, unfortunately, he makes it uh two more chapters. Thank you, Eric, for your rest in peace, King.
SPEAKER_01Eric's one scene in the entire book.
SPEAKER_02It's so funny that Theramon is like, we can't do this, no. And Eric's like, well, Theramon isn't here. Fucking goodbye, Fritz. Oh, neither. Yeah. I mean, he was trying to shoot an arrow. Dude, there's nothing Fritz loves more than shooting people with arrows when they're not looking. What a bitch.
SPEAKER_01It's this whole stick.
SPEAKER_02I'm so happy they often.
SPEAKER_01I couldn't I couldn't handle a whole redemption arc.
SPEAKER_02Do you think if we like if we gave Kyle like eight pints of Murphy Stout, he would be like, I did not know what to do with Fritz. Um I just skilled him off.
SPEAKER_01I I would like, now that we're further in, I'd like to re-ask some of the questions we did about like, man, you know you are filling plot holes in this book. Like you bit off more than you can chew in book one.
SPEAKER_02Man, I had notes on other stuff that felt like an author realizing, ah, this isn't going anywhere, and we got way more shit going on. We just gotta wrap it up. Uh, but that that's sort of what Fritz felt like to me. Like, I I don't have a place in this series for this character. Goodbye, sir. Thank you for your services.
SPEAKER_01So far, that's also what the friends that they meet from the bar fight with Eric, the axe throwing guy, I forget his name, Aleron, maybe. Aleron from Trafane. Yeah, yeah. He's just chilling in Trafane, doing a little revolution himself.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, like if we never touched base with them in their like civil war that's apparently going on, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't think the story would suffer for it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But they'll definitely run into each other in a battle in like two books.
SPEAKER_02I really liked him, so I'm just hoping he comes back and he had a fun dynamic with his evil dad. Me too. Or I agree.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But yeah, then thankfully, thank God, we get because I hate out and backs. I can't do an out and back hike. It's like my nightmare.
SPEAKER_02Did I think I've told the listeners? That's the only reason I finished fourth wing. Um, I was supposed to go on this backpacking trip with my wife and some of our friends. And unfortunately, this was when I was working in Big Law. And uh what was I doing trying to take four days off? No, thank you. No, realized I couldn't, had a panic attack. So I I I made it one day, and then I was like, I have to hike back to the car in the morning. I'm fucking sorry. Uh it was uh 12 miles. So we I hiked in 12 miles through a forest, finally got to the pretty stuff, and immediately turned around. And the only thing that got me through it was the fourth wing audiobook, which I just huffed on my solo 12 mile hike back to the car. God, I'm glad those dark days are over. Man, I really am a lot happier. So it's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Not going back, folks. Um, what were we talking about? Well, we made it through the desert. Yeah. Should we talk about uh he's back with his big bro? Yay. I'm glad they don't beef for too long.
SPEAKER_01I know it would have been it would have been petulant.
SPEAKER_02That's a classic thing Kyle's good about knowing when people would actually just bury the hatchet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, he's he's very in touch with like what real friendships should feel like, to be honest. It's like you just get that big old bear hug and you cry it out a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was so cute. It was really cute. And great move by Haym to know like this boy needs a hug.
SPEAKER_01What's funny is that he acts like he has the wisdom of a like 400-year-old man now. Now that he's a knight. He's yeah, he's like I've been living with 400-year-old men, they've told me a lot. He's like 23, you know.
SPEAKER_02I've been talking to my boss who's crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh man. But yeah, they make it back, and it's uh similarly a very sweet scene with Dan and Theron and like reuniting. So nice.
SPEAKER_02Maybe dancing, dancing Valeris fly in and be like, oh my god, he's a he's a big boy now.
SPEAKER_01Very big boy. Yeah. Also shout out. We we said donkey balls a few times, but donkey to Kyle for immediately after like the most bloody fight scene in the whole book. Having dance a donkey balls to open the channel.
SPEAKER_02I ended up I I don't know, I was like driving a lot recently, and so I did audiobook a decent chunk of this. Ended up having to reread all of it because I can't pay attention. But um, that hard cut to donkey balls in the audiobook is fantastic. Oh, it's it really caught me by surprise. Like, I'm in a Kalen chapter, and then all of a sudden it's donkey balls. Oh new section.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the that that was a great, great move. Um yeah, the reunited scene. Oh, I'm I'm so happy.
SPEAKER_02Tell me you never donkeyed a ball without donkeying a ball. This man's clearly never balled a donkey. Have you ever been sucked off through a hole? Wait, and so that was a I was I was I've really been on a Philomena Kunk thing recently. Oh god, she's the best. She's so fucking funny, man. Really just blows me away. Okay. What have we not talked about? Oh shit, we got the whole fucking Elven thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it's not that long. I mean, we're we're back to Aravel, the big Elven City, with stupid internal politics. And why do we have multiple rulers? I'm still on this. Yeah, you hate the bureaucracy. I'm so mad at it. It's it's a do you hate it because it's confusing from like as a reader? I hate it because you know that you're not gonna invest in any of the rulers. Like their personality.
SPEAKER_02It's like the dwarven queens all over again. It's like we've got five interchangeable dwarven queens.
SPEAKER_01But it feels like in this case it's gonna be the same scenario where there's a couple petty ones and then one will become a main character. It's like just have a good or bad ruler. Just give us that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm yeah, like that compared to um what was Dalin's dad's name? I want to say Arthur. Asen Dalin. Dalin, son of Asen? Damon. The D names finally bit me in the ass. Damon, son of Arthur. Damon, the handsome man that everyone lived. Yeah, you know, you're completely right about Dolan's dad, but that's not what I was trying to ask you. Um that was easier. Arthur Bryan or whatever his name was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. I can invest in that guy. I think it's because he's so handsome though. Um okay. Yeah, the elves. Uh City's kind of you know what was actually really cool? Um, them passing through the glamour and having like a quick freak out. Like, where the fuck did Asen go? And and Dan just laughing at them. It also uh Kahill closed a plot hole we were joking about. Um, you cannot sniff through the glamour. It really, yeah, it really dampens all the senses in there because I was wondering about the sniffy, sniffy dragons. But yeah. Yeah, but this guy has thought of everything.
SPEAKER_01He really has. The Elfin City seems beautiful. It's very I I'd like to reread actually the description of it because it's full of valleys and cool shit. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Billy's trying to open the door.
SPEAKER_01Billy.
SPEAKER_02Can you hear that? He's howling and trying to open it up. Oh poor Billy. He missed it. Okay. Um I'm not gonna lie to you. I didn't hear a word you said because I was thinking about Billy.
SPEAKER_01That's fine. None of it was important. What's important is that Kaylin gets vision quested by the Elven Queen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we get a whole history of the Elven Queen Queen's uh life of tragedy and the dead family. A lot of dead family. So what man, I mean, I could ask you to theorize on why this happened, but like it's gonna be fucking wild guessing.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, Kaylin definitely has some sort of weird druidic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. At first, when it happened, I was wondering if it was like uh Galadriel, you must see this type of thing.
SPEAKER_01Um, this is pure Kalen going on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then he outs himself later. It's like that's her kid's dragon, right? How do you know that? Just had that look. I don't know. Her dying 200 years ago. Um okay. But then they go through a strange archway, him and Asen, and they meet a bunch of mentally ill people. Yes. What'd you think of these guys? The X-Men Council. Yeah, complete with wheelchair lady. What's that? Dude, I'm not a superhero guy. What is that character name? Professor X. Is that Dr. Professor? Oh, not Dr. X. Who's Magneto?
SPEAKER_01He's was Professor X's best friend.
SPEAKER_02Were they both Patrick Stewart? No. It wasn't like a nutty professor situation.
SPEAKER_01They're two separate good old actors who look the same.
SPEAKER_02That's like how they got two guys to be in sinners? No. Okay. Um so these guys are around. Um, and we get like a we get a funny rundown of like, here are all the thousands of ways you can be fucked up if your dragon dies.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and Kyle embarrassed me a little bit here because I realized we had never asked what Asen's disability was. I don't know. It felt like something that we should have like Farda's is really clear.
SPEAKER_02It just I didn't ask because it was like, oh, he says he wants to kill himself every day. That's the one. But it white's not like I didn't I didn't think it was like a fucking a quirk for my hero academia or whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah but everyone gets a special impediment. But when when uh Kaylin finally asked, I was like, God damn it, like why didn't we ask that question on our lowbrow podcast?
SPEAKER_02Shout out Um Shout out to a user on Reddit for recommending us on Sun Eater. That's so nice. Um did it did it hurt when you said it wasn't highbrow? No. No, but then I was thinking about it and I was like, I know that we're not highbrow. But it doesn't mean we're dumb. It doesn't mean we're dumb. We're not dumb. We read good. We read good. As evidenced by this discussion. Yeah. I mean that that's the thing, is it's like I can make fun of my family, you can't. It's sort of like if someone asked me, is your show highbrow? I'd be like, absolutely not. But when someone else says it, I'm like, man.
SPEAKER_01We say we say some big words good sometimes. It's pretty nice.
SPEAKER_02We'd be making points. And speaking of making points, you you did notice the whole ASAN having a tenuous connection to the spark. I feel like that really popped up a few times here. Um section. No, we get the answer.
SPEAKER_01Again, Kyle very good at uh creating a little whodunit within the book. It makes you feel curious but not dumb.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Is I don't think is it getting worse? Uh it's been 400 years, so you can still use the spark. Whatever. It goes in and out.
SPEAKER_01I'm trying to think um the other things we learn, there are also Rekina dragons, which we talked about that.
SPEAKER_02Like I we just hadn't seen what happens when the rider dies and the dragon's fine.
SPEAKER_01Um we learned there are a lot more unhatched eggs. Good to confirm. Uh including Minnie and Valetia, which is a scary place.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It is funny when there were a couple times when this happened, they're like, Yes, oh, you got the dragon from Valacia. What is its name? Uh Ice. Oh, good. Yes, makes sense. From the place of ice. Yeah. There should be one person that's like, fucking really? They named the Ice Dragon Ice. Okay. How about we try again? I seem a little like embarrassed sometimes when he's like, Yes, his name's Ice. This is my black cat black. Okay. Um where are we going with this? You know what I was wondering? Valeris is a boy. Are there lady dragons? You gotta bang one of these dragons. A la manga. No. Yeah. Yo, you just said no, he's not gonna. Why can't we get a Valeris egg? You know who he's gonna bang? Um Ella. Alina's Wyvern. Oh my god, we can get a drivern?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Dryvern. A wagon. Wagon. Oh my god, it's a wagon! I'm team wagon. Wagon riders unite. There we go. Man, maybe we do a poll, Dryvern versus Wagon. If anyone votes for Dryvern, I you banned. Yeah, you're not allowed to listen anymore. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01Wagon is so good.
SPEAKER_02Here come the wagon.
SPEAKER_01I want to write a book just so we can pull this off.
SPEAKER_02Prologue. Dragon Fox Wyburn. Chapter one. I was atop my wagon.
SPEAKER_01The wagon descended gracefully.
SPEAKER_02I widow it was on my wagon. I just want to wagon. My wagon was hitting the gwiddy when Fawda showed up. The Warrior Empire. Okay. Oh, we lost it. All right. I think I think we've I don't know. Hour 20, yeah?
SPEAKER_01Call it Pal World. Yeah, they're basically just ending with a training arc with Kalen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so he's in school now. And also a lot of these Rakina um said, fuck off. Yeah, but he's had to fight.
SPEAKER_0110 will train the squad.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, they're I've joked about them not being helpful. They are helpful in this limited sense of they know how to be dragon riders, so they can help Galen. So um anyway.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, that's we got 25% left. It's gonna be really fun. Um I'm psyched. I'm curious if we get a training arc or if the piece is like immediately broken.
SPEAKER_02People are gonna find their way into the how could you use a little reprieve from fighting? That's what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_01It's like now that we've all crossed paths again, it would be a shame to break everybody up somehow. I don't think I don't think I would enjoy that. So yeah, I'm actually ready for a little bit of training and like how do you become a real dragon bound? Also, uh, this was the point where I actually realized what the series title was supposed to mean. The bound of the breaking.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I feel like we talked about that on the show.
SPEAKER_01Because they say it, they say the you know, synonymous, whatever, whatever that word's supposed to be. And uh I was like, fuck.
SPEAKER_02Should have thought about that one a little closer. My mind was absolutely blown in. Book three, page nine million. Um you know what I would like for the end of this book? What? I want a little more for Dane to do. Yeah, we could do that. I want Dane and Alina to go. I want that to go somewhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it feels like pacing wise, it would be a good point for the Dane storyline to come back, and maybe to your point, the Dalin Bolina storyline.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I'm less hopeful that they're gonna have something to do because they're they got a nice little bow on their arc. But yeah, I want Dane to be more connected to everything that's going on. Um, but we'll see. I'm sure we'll get something.
SPEAKER_01And I bet we get one more good fane chapter in there.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah. I wonder if that's gonna be the thing. It's like we end with some weird cosmic fane shit every book.
SPEAKER_01I I I want to see his reaction to the fact that Kalen came to his city, stole, killed an inquisitor, stole the guy's parent.
SPEAKER_02Like there's gotta be like a heads scene where he lines up everybody. So, has anyone seen the Tralade?
SPEAKER_01Because the last guy who failed him got turned into a fade. So anyway.
SPEAKER_02Man, it would be so fascinating if Fane sniffs out the Dragon Riders and just like snaps some necks. Yeah. Um, yeah, more Fane. Um and my last parting thought. I don't even know who the enemy is in this series anymore.
SPEAKER_01The whole Blood Moon thing, like it's gonna be gods that we haven't met, is the answer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's sort of feeling like not Fane.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Fane is a means to an end.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like I wonder if it's gonna be a Fane dies at the end of this book or book four or something, and we just like have a big reset for a larger conflict before book five.
SPEAKER_01You know, the real enemy is the friends that we made along the way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree. Um anyway. Was that from Art of War? Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, okay. Um I picked our uh I picked our outro song by the way. Should I know or should it be a surprise? Walk me, mama like a wagon wheel. Is that a real version? No.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_02I thought you were like, oh, that was a vine back in the day. I'm gonna play it. No. Just been thinking about wagons. Walk me like a wagon wheel. Yeah, that's pretty good. Okay, yeah, that's good. I like that a lot. Um Okay, and to send us out, can you uh in three seconds make up a quote by Sun Tzu?
SPEAKER_01Darkness before light, strength before truth. Pleasure before pain. Good night.
