In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Jessica Eaton from North Carolina. Although Jessica and I have connections to North Carolina and share the same last name, we're not related! After about a decade teaching Math in public school, Jessica and her husband, who was also a teacher, became disenchanted. Jessica was especially disheartened by the giant class sizes and seeing the ill-effects of students who were overworked and over-tested. They boldly left their careers and moved to North Carolina where her husband's new job was located. Jessica had already started her own business, The Mindfull Mentor, and she began tutoring students in Math, and ended up being connected to the homeschool world through a neighbor. Now, most of Jessica's clients are homeschooled and she teaches in person and online to individuals and groups of all ages. Although she does not have children yet, Jessica is leaning toward homeschooling and looks forward to tailoring her children's learning to their needs and having a flexible schedule and lifestyle.
Connect with Jessica
https://mindfullmentor.com/
Curriculum
https://christianlight.org/shop-curriculum
https://discoverwildlearning.com/
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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Jessica Eaton from North Carolina. Although Jessica and I have connections to North Carolina and share the same last name, we're not related! After about a decade teaching Math in public school, Jessica and her husband, who was also a teacher, became disenchanted. Jessica was especially disheartened by the giant class sizes and seeing the ill-effects of students who were overworked and over-tested. They boldly left their careers and moved to North Carolina where her husband's new job was located. Jessica had already started her own business, The Mindfull Mentor, and she began tutoring students in Math, and ended up being connected to the homeschool world through a neighbor. Now, most of Jessica's clients are homeschooled and she teaches in person and online to individuals and groups of all ages. Although she does not have children yet, Jessica is leaning toward homeschooling and looks forward to tailoring her children's learning to their needs and having a flexible schedule and lifestyle.
Connect with Jessica
https://mindfullmentor.com/
Curriculum
https://christianlight.org/shop-curriculum
https://discoverwildlearning.com/
This Golden Hour
Free eBook Course
Free Live Training
thisgoldenhour.org
I feel like my homeschool students, they seem so much happier. They actually care about what they're learning, but they're not just learning it to take a test tomorrow. They get to be creative and they get to show they're learning in so many more ways. And so they're less stressed, like I was telling you the, when I was teaching in public school, the kids were so stressed and anxious and their self esteem was so low because of all these tests they get back that they don't get what they thought they should get. And a lot of people argue that homeschooling isn't great because like, how will they be socialized, but a lot of times the ways they're socialized in school are not positive. And the homeschool kids that I'm working with who are not around the bullying and the bad influences and all that stuff, they're happier and they're more. Innocent and they get to enjoy their childhood
Timmy Eaton:Hi, I'm Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and doctor of education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out. But people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling. And homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of this Golden Hour Podcast as you exercise, drive, clean, or just chill. You're listening to this Golden Hour Podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Jessica Eaton from North Carolina. Although Jessica and I have connections to North Carolina and share the same last name, we're not related. After about a decade teaching math in public school, Jessica and her husband, who was also a teacher, became disenchanted. Jessica was especially disheartened by the giant class sizes and seeing the ill effects of students who are overworked and over tested. They boldly left their careers and moved to North Carolina where her husband's new job was located. Jessica had already started her own business, the Mindful Mentor, and she began tutoring students in math and ended up being connected to the homeschool world through a neighbor. Now, most of Jessica's clients are homeschooled and she teaches in person and online to individuals and groups of all ages. Although she does not have children yet, Jessica is leaning toward homeschooling and looks forward to tailoring her children's learning to their needs and having a flexible schedule and lifestyle. Welcome to this golden hour podcast. We're really grateful to have Jessica Eaton with us today. And we are, we, we kind of were talking about it before. I don't think that we're related, but she is in North Carolina and I have a lot of family in North Carolina, but she's not from there. She ended up there. So Jessica is the creator of the mindful mentor, which is basically math resource. And courses and all the things she's going to explain to us during this podcast and specifically targeted to homeschool audience. And so we'll talk about that throughout, but Jessica, welcome. And thank you for being here. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Excellent. And we're so grateful to have you. And can you just give us a little bio of yourself, your family? You can say anything you want, where you're from and just give us a feel for you and then we'll jump into things.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah, definitely. So I, was a, a middle and high school math teacher for 10 years in the public school system and teaching, has been my literal dream job since I was a kid. As long as I can remember, I wanted to be a teacher. And, but when I went into teaching, I loved it for a while. And then the more that saw the ways that the public school system was not necessarily helping kids and was even sometimes hurting in some ways. I didn't want to continue in that system anymore and be a part of the system that I felt was not really helping kids the way that we needed to. But of course, like I said, I love teaching. So when I got out of teaching, I wanted to find a way to be able to still teach kids math. Cause that's. My passion, but to do it in a way that I felt was like more helpful for them and would work better for me. And maybe I could even reach more students than I could in a public school setting. And so that's why I started the Mindful Mentor. I started out just doing some private tutoring, so I could work one on one with students and I still do that. But when I moved to North Carolina, I talked to a neighbor who was homeschooling her kids. And that was really the first intro I had to like to homeschooling. I hadn't really thought much about it, but then she was telling me all about it and it sounded awesome. And it sounded like it solved a lot of the problems that I saw in the public school system. And she was like, who really needs help with math is homeschool families. She's like, I know that many homeschool families fear math. That's what makes them nervous about homeschooling is they're afraid that they're going to get to a point where they can't help their kids with. math anymore. And so she was like, you might want to see if you could help homeschool families, not just like with tutoring, but find a way to teach math to homeschoolers. And I was like, that sounds like an awesome plan. So that's when, in addition to my Private tutoring I decided to start some group math classes. So now so I started some in person first and here in North Carolina We I have some group in person classes And then I had people from other places asking about my classes too. And so I started an online one So I teach the same lesson that I do in person, but I teach it Online as well. And I've got students in different states and even a few in different countries too. And so it's been awesome to be able to expand that reach and get to teach group classes still, but in a way that works better for the students and for how I would love to, to get to teach without the confines of the public school system.
Timmy Eaton:Well said that was awesome. There's a lot there. So I want to break some of that down. That was really good. So one thing I really love about what you're doing is there's the tutoring element of it. But then the idea that you can actually that's the beauty of the online world, like on the one hand. You can reach so many more people and be a resource to them, which is also advantageous to you monetarily and whatever else, because you're reaching more and then able to repurpose a lot of the material that if you record some stuff, you can put that on your site.. That's really cool that you're doing that. So I wanted to ask you about things you're saying early on you were noticing things about the school. Can you give some specifics? Just because I think this is happening more and more like I and I it's always happened. And this is a lot of people will turn to alternatives and then to homeschooling because of Things that they notice in the school, not that they demonize the whole system, but that's just that by the nature of how it's set up there are some, like you, you said the word confines and I think that's a really good word to describe it, but what were you specifically noticing that you were disenchanted with especially something that you had looked forward to your whole life and then after 10 years of it, you're going, nah, it's not the same thing. So tell us more. Yeah
Jessica Eaton:so I always say that I feel like the biggest issue right now that I've noticed with the public school system is that class size is getting out of control,
Timmy Eaton:like, where were you teaching? Sorry, Jessica, where were you teaching?
Jessica Eaton:I was teaching in San Diego in California.
Timmy Eaton:No way. That's where my son is right now. Oh, nice.
Jessica Eaton:We loved it there. And but we ended up moving out to North Carolina. And we love it here too. But I so I When we moved from San Diego is when I quit teaching, so I haven't taught out here in the public school system. But yeah, I was
Timmy Eaton:teaching in San Diego. How long has that been? How long ago did you move to North Carolina?
Jessica Eaton:Two and a half years. So it was summer of 2021 when we moved out here. Okay,
Timmy Eaton:and you were saying the class sizes, so talk about that, like how big were the classes getting?
Jessica Eaton:I taught middle school for several years and high school for several years. And at those levels, I was lucky if I had a class less than 35 kids. And for the most part, it was like 35 to one, one class I even had was 45 students. And we didn't even have 45 desks in my classroom. Like they had to sit on the counters in the back of the room. I was like, how are they supposed to learn math sitting on a couch? Like it got out of control. But luckily that 45 was rare for me, but I almost never had a class less than like 35, which even that is a lot. And so the main issue was it's so hard to keep everybody from falling through the cracks because you can't work one on one and answer every Students question when there's 35 of them and you have them for 55 minutes and then they move on, you got 35 to 40 more. And
Timmy Eaton:it's specifically for math. Math is something that's so incremental. What about the demographic? What was the typical demographic of the kids that you were teaching? What kind of income levels were they coming from? Or what was the mix?
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. So in San Diego, there was a lot of Hispanic students. So sometimes I would have students who didn't even speak English really. And I would try my best to connect with them when I could. I think it was all levels of income. The area we were in was pretty mixed. It wasn't like I was in either like a low income area or a super affluent area. It was a pretty big mix. But having that many students in a class at a time, and then I had. 6 or 7 periods of that. So I had like overall I had 150 to 200 students that I was responsible for. And it's almost impossible to make sure every one of them is getting their needs met. And when you go to professional development they're all focused on it. Differentiation. And I'm like, I agree, we all need to differentiate, but I cannot differentiate for 35 children at one time for the way that they need
Timmy Eaton:to. And what was meant by differentiation? Were they saying to customized to the individual's learning needs?
Jessica Eaton:Yeah, basically they're like, you have to meet everyone where they're at. And I'm like they're at 35 different levels. Even if I tried to be like, okay, here's the kids who need a lot of help, here's the kids in the middle who can get it pretty quick. And then there's the advanced kids. That's still me planning three different lessons every period, every day, which even that is hard, but even within the group of Low level kids, you've got different levels in the group of high level kids. You have different, so it's, there's no way. And then
Timmy Eaton:you throw in, and then you throw in the reality of classroom management, which actually is exacerbated by more and more numbers. Was that a reality we're talking junior high and we're talking 35 to 45 kids and a mix and a mixed demographic,
Jessica Eaton:I started out at the high school level and moved down to the middle school because I thought I wanted to work with younger kids and I shouldn't have done that. Middle school kids are great, but when you have the room of 40 of them, eighth graders are 13 and that's just a crazy time for everybody. They're not excited about sitting there listening to me teach math. They're trying to impress their friends. And like you said, the classroom management, that 55 minutes I have with them, half of it is spent trying to get them to stay in their seat and stop talking to their friends and listen to what I'm trying to teach.
Timmy Eaton:And did you have an EA or a TA of any kind in the classes?
Jessica Eaton:I had an educational aid in I think one or two of the periods so the way that it worked, they would give you an aid if you had a certain number of students with IPS in that class, right? I don't remember what the cutoff was, but if you had a class that didn't have the, number of IEPs that was necessary. You didn't have an aid in there. That didn't mean you weren't going to have behavior problems because the kid who's goofing off with his friends doesn't necessarily have an IEP, you know? So, um, yeah, so there was several periods where I didn't have anyone in there with me and it's 35.
Timmy Eaton:And you would do six or seven classes a day. Yeah, that's how that's,
Jessica Eaton:wow, that six different subjects or anything, it was usually two or three subjects, but you'd have, so you'd have multiple periods of each subject,
Timmy Eaton:were you always teaching math? Yeah. Okay. At least that's consistent. I talked to lots of teachers who aren't actually teaching what they studied to teach. And so it's because it's, what's the need of the school. And I get that it's just. A bummer sometimes. It's I'm passionate about history and I'm teaching LA or I'm teaching math I got a teaching degree as well. And I taught high school Spanish and I did the junior high level. And I actually really liked that just because they bring so much energy but like you said, you can burn out, like it is so draining emotionally and I still teach from grade nines to twelves but it's just a draining, teaching is hard, man. So any other thing factors besides class size and all those realities that were no, this isn't, I don't love this anymore. Not that you didn't love teaching, but just love the way that it was heading in the system.
Jessica Eaton:I think the second biggest thing I would say it was the amount just like how overworked the kids were and especially like over tested. That was the biggest thing is there was always some either some like standardized tests that we were required by the school or the district or even aside from those like. If I'm teaching them a math unit and it's a month long, like it's going to take us a month to learn this, you usually were expected to give them one or two quizzes and then a final test. And so every, almost every week, they had either a quiz or a test. And then, like I said, they have six or seven classes, so what if three of their teachers. Scheduled a test on the same day. That means the night before this 12 year old is up all night studying for three tests. They come in like a zombie the next day and they're not even able to do well on these tests I'd say the thing that broke my heart the most was seeing how kids would walk into school, like walking around like zombies, like 12 year olds had to have caffeine to get through the day. I'm like,
Timmy Eaton:I was going to say what you just described there. So well, and then you add in the reality of what happened with COVID you add in the the oncoming of screens and technology and social media, and then, like gaming and all the things. All of those things added up together. And then, so I just want to read something that actually, if you don't mind, from your site that I thought you just said so well, and then I wanted to ask you something about testing, because I did my doctorate degree in education, finished it about five years ago, and one of my major findings was how testing did not make a big difference in entrance into university in post secondary and then performance in post secondary, and I was blown away with that, but I'll come to that in a second. You said this, after being in the classroom for so long, I realized that the public education system doesn't really allow students the creativity and freedom they need to be able to really understand what they're learning or to motivate them to want to keep learning it over test students. That's what you were just talking about. Stresses them out and takes away their ability to think critically and explore and learn in exciting ways. So many students get discouraged and put off by math. And that breaks my heart. I teach religious education, we have a building adjacent to the school, and kids come over during their day, and if they elect, they take a course, a scripture based course, and a lot of times I ask that question I say, what's the most stressful part Of school. And, inevitably they talk about testing and then friends and social, that kind of thing. But but I was so surprised in my dissertation, finding in my research that the, that testing does not make this like huge difference. And I'm going, if it doesn't make a huge difference and doesn't totally prepare kids for the testing, they're going to take in university and just life. Then what in the world are we doing making them stress out so much? And some would say what are you going to do? Coddle them and not have doctors who are prepared. But I would just suggest that there are other ways to assess learning and to encourage learning, like you said here. That makes them excited to think critically explore, and to want to learn without discouragement. Anyway, that was a lot. You take it from there.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah, so I agree. I don't understand why we feel the need to test them. As far as I can tell, it's just so that districts have a bunch of data to look at. But if you ask me The data is not accurate anyways, because I don't feel like tests are a good demonstration of what a student knows. Like you can give them a, especially in middle and high school where they've got, their six periods they have to go to. So they have to finish this test in the 50 minute period I give them, but maybe if they'd had 30 more minutes, they could have finished the whole thing and gotten a hundred percent. Or if they weren't in this stressful environment of Do this test and it's going to go in your grade. If they were just asked these exact same questions, but on a regular worksheet or had like taking it home to do for homework or something, they probably could have gotten them. All right. I know. So many of my students just got test anxiety. Like I worked with them the day before we studied. They had it all down totally. The test the next day and I'm like, a lot of my tutoring students, even sometimes I'll we'll work together. They're like, okay, let's study for my test tomorrow. We do a bunch of practice problems. They've got it down. And I'm like, Ooh, you're so prepared. And then I see them next week. I'm like, how'd the test go? They're like, I didn't do great. I'm like, Oh no. And it's because they were like, I got there and my, I blanked out. Or like a lot of them just get so anxious. They put so much pressure or sometimes parents put pressure or teachers put pressure or whatever it is. They just feel like they have to do so well. And it makes them. Completely blank out even if like sometimes if I'm put on the spot and asked a question, I'm like wait a second. I know,
Timmy Eaton:so that was the act for me and the act. I remember and I didn't to be honest, I didn't prepare very well. Like I remember some of my I went to a fairly affluent school in the Chicago area. And I remember in my family, wasn't of that background but but a lot of the kids were, and I remember like they were there, it was a pretty uppity school, like kids were pretty academic and. And I remember kids preparing for the ACT and I like showed up for the ACT and I did well in school because I would just do my homework and, whatever. I was good at the system. But but I remember like the reading comprehension. I got to a certain point where I was halfway through and the person, conducting the test said five minutes left. And so I just made space ships with the rest of it. And again, I don't think that testing is wrong or assessment is wrong, but the emphasis on it. And like you said, the standardized requirements and using that data to assess, this is where you're supposed to be, especially when we definitely cater to certain types of testing. And I know math might be harder that way. But I really I don't know if you've heard of CLT, it's called the classic learning test. It's a it's developed by by like a homeschool philosophy. And there's the 250 universities are accepting. I just interviewed somebody from CLT. It's called classic learning test. And basically it's a, it's an alternative to the ACT and the SAT. And what it does is it really gives. It it lends itself to liberal arts type testing and not just one way of testing. And it's more of an enjoyable experience and they're just finding a way better results from the testing experience. Like kids enjoy it and stuff like that. But if we're always like, for example, in math, if you're always doing like a time test on your timetables, for example, some kids really love that and they're really good at that. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they know the principles behind the math concepts that can carry over into something else. And like you said, a kid might get it in a half an hour longer. And who cares? What's the rush and what's the race? And fine, you might not be the astronaut that has to do things like this, but for most of us, that's that's good learning
Jessica Eaton:or if you are going to become the astronaut, like you don't have to be good at it by 10 years old. You've got plenty of time, stress out a 10 year old over this test because they can figure it out later. That's my problem is like, we're doing all, everyone's how are they going to be prepared? I'm like, they don't need to be prepared for every single thing at 10 years old. Give them time. Like they can go at their own pace.
Timmy Eaton:And then the other thing with that is the 10-year-old, and this happens so often in our culture and in the system it's like you, you run races at, in gym and then you go, I'm Ida wasn't the fastest. Therefore, I, we assign identities to ourself in kindergarten. We got something back and we go. Oh, I'm not the artist at 10. We go, I'm not good at math. And then we write it off for the rest of our lives. And even as an adult, as I'm doing homeschool with my kids and, learning with them, which is so enriching, I'm like, Oh, I actually really like math and I actually really like history. That's what I did my degree in, but like I really like it and I like reading the world told me things and I bought into it. And anyway, not saying everybody does that, but it's really
Jessica Eaton:common. And that's part of my issue with testing is say you took a time to test and I don't know, you didn't sleep well the night before or something and you do bad on it and then you get it back. And like you said, you've got a C or a D or an F you're like I'm bad at math. That's part of why I moved down from high school to middle schools. I was like, maybe I can catch them before they've gotten in that mindset of I suck at math, but it even happens in middle school. It even happens in elementary. 10 years old, eight years old. They can already have that mindset of I'm just not good at it, or I just don't like it. And so it's really hard to catch them before they get there. But if you can, it will help so much because that's what makes kids hate math is they're like, oh I'm just bad at it, so I'm just not going to try. And it's so hard to get them back into that mindset that's why my whole thing is I try it like in my classes, I try and teach it as laid back. And I post optional tests. If parents want to see where their kid is at, I'm not trying to, Give you tests and quizzes and things and put stress on you. It's just laid back. We're just hanging out doing math. And I think kids have so much more fun doing it that way when the pressure is lifted versus when I was teaching in public school. And I was like I have to get you ready for this test and this quiz and they focus on grades. And if I don't get this good grade, I had so many kids when I was teaching high school, that's, they're like applying for colleges and come to me literally crying. If you give me a C in your class, I won't make it into college. I'm like, first of all, I didn't give you a C. It's that was what you got from your scores. I didn't just decide to give you a C. But secondly, my, this one class isn't gonna. Ruin the rest of your life, but they'd come to me crying. And I'm just like I cannot be a part of this system anymore. That makes these kids feel this awful. It just, it hurt my heart. I was like, that's
Timmy Eaton:not why I'm here. I know it is. Like you said, it hurts your heart, and it's wearing, I'm feeling the same thing. I'm About 20 years in. The subject matter I'm teaching of scripture based is a little different from the public system but it's a similar setup. And so I feel what you're saying. Like when people say that's such a common mentality, like you gave me a C instead of, this is what I legitimately earned based on whatever the confines are of the system. And then it stresses them out. Today I was in a class and there was a. a kid that in Canada, people say grade 12, but he was, he's a senior in high school. And I've had him for three years in a row and he's awesome. He's very bright, like well spoken, read, like writes well, very smart kid. Anyway, somebody was talking about. Playing what they call here in this community is selects. And basically it's community basketball. And he's probably like six, one, six, two, he's his big body. And someone was like, why don't you play with us? And he's and he just, he said the same thing. He's I stink at basketball. I don't like competition. And I was listening to it and I was going, maybe it's true he's just not into it, whatever. But I was just like, man, he's assigning these identities that have probably been pegged to him since he was little, and he just has held true to those, instead of it being like, whoever said you had to be good or bad or whatever, but just that you enjoy exercise and you enjoy the sport I guess all I'm saying with that is we assign identity. I think that can be dangerous because we do this as adults. I'll say right now, like I'm not a good artist or something like that. And it's how much time have I put into it? How much have I tried to learn? And we don't think of this growth mindset of I haven't developed the skills. Of an artist, but I have the ability to learn so I can do that.
Jessica Eaton:And I hear so many homeschool parents I'm not a math person. I'm not good at math. So they've assigned that to themselves. And they're like I can't help my kid because I'm not good at math. And that's probably something from literally elementary school that they've taken with them. I feel like most people can be really good at math if they would learn it in a less confined Way than the
public.
Timmy Eaton:Well, And maybe you're glad they do that because that's where they need you. So that's awesome. I guess
Jessica Eaton:technically I wouldn't have a job if they
Timmy Eaton:all knew. No, that's that. And maybe that's the goal is to try to work ourselves out of jobs by equipping and empowering other people. Another thing that I often think of and say is I think of my first two kids who went all the way through homeschool there. They've graduated. My one son is in San Diego right now. And, they didn't have a rigorous testing. They never took like real test. If I said it that way, I'm saying the way that they're, they happen in a school. I don't know why I say real, and they went to university and that's definitely one of the what makes a lot of homeschool kids anxious if they haven't done a lot of that kind of testing some kids do because a lot of parents just transfer school type things to the home, but yeah, but that's not how we did it. I don't know if you've heard of teaching textbooks, but that's. That's been the one that we've landed on and I know a lot of people do Saxon math and they've tapped into Khan Academy and stuff like that, but no formal real testing that we've done in our homeschool experience with our kids. So they both went to university and I have a son that's doing concurrent right now. He's a junior in high school and he's doing a math class in university. And he's doing well. And again, with no testing background. And so that's to me and to watch my daughter who went to university and my son who did university classes and my current son now doing them, I'm going, man, that's like a huge enlightenment that they didn't have to go through all this formal testing experience, but they knew how to learn and they knew how to be conscientious about their learning. And that's what actually mattered turns out to, they might go, man, I don't really know how this works, but guess what you can do. You can go talk to the professor. You can ask questions and you can figure it out.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. And that's I agree with what you said. I think it's more that they learned. They like probably learned how to learn and they learned how to enjoy learning and they're more self motivated versus I have to study to get an A on this test. It's no, I need to actually learn the stuff to learn it. And that's what helps them to know it better than the kid who's just studying to remember it for a test. And so since they know it better, they don't have an issue on the test because they actually know it. Like I had so many kids who they even flat out told me, they're like, I just make sure I know it long enough to take the test. And the next day It's out of my head. I'm like, wonderful. That's super helpful. You're not, they're not actually learning. So that's another reason. I feel like tests are pointless because even the kids who do well, majority of them are just learning it barely enough to be able to put it down on a paper and then forget it. So they can, start studying for the next test. So I'm just like they're not helpful if in my opinion at all. And you even just proved because your kids never really did them and they still. Absolutely
Timmy Eaton:fine. And one size doesn't fit all but that's just it. It doesn't fit all. So why do we make one thing that tries to fit all and the other thing is not every kid will perform the same but that's not even what it's about. When I'm talking to families, I always Try to emphasize the importance of establishing what's the purpose of education for your kids. So you and your husband, when you guys have your children and you're raising them, you'll want to think okay, what is like the outcome? Like by the time they're 18, 19 years old and they leave the nest, so to speak, what is it that we want them to have become? And what is it that we want them to have? Achieved from their learning and then from that work backwards, and that should inform your practice in the way you homeschool or in the way you nurture your Children, because if your main purpose is I want kids who can rock tests then maybe that's cool. And that's fine. And that's totally up to you. But if you're like, man, I want people who are, Really kind and who will serve people and love learning and will learning for the rest of their lives Then you might go about things a little bit differently. And so I love the insights that you're putting forth there So so transition us from San Diego and teaching they're getting a little bit disenchanted with that And then how did you actually make the decision with your you and your? Husband because people always think of it as secure and Stability. How did you transition?
Jessica Eaton:Yeah, it definitely was very scary. But I think that moving from San Diego to North Carolina helped make it less scary because it's a huge cost of living difference. When we moved here, his new job, he was making the same that he was making in San Diego. Then obviously I'm not making quite what I was making teaching in San Diego, like doing this. But cost of living out here was so much lower that we were able to take a little while and see if I could make this work. If I had tried it for a little while and I wasn't making any money and nothing was happening, I would have either gone back in the classroom or found a different job or something, but it picked up very quickly. And so there wasn't a long time where we were like, Ooh, are we going to be able to make this work?
Timmy Eaton:Oh, cool. I'm glad that did work out like that.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah, I was, I got very lucky. And I, so I think having that kind of wiggle room financially, and then also the fact that I was able to be on his insurance still and everything, so it wasn't like, Oh my gosh, this is so scary. We're going to go broke and we have no insurance, but you made
Timmy Eaton:that decision before you moved or sorry, you made that decision after you, cause you didn't even tap into the homeschool world until you got to North Carolina. Yeah.
Jessica Eaton:Sorry. I I had started like doing a little bit of private tutoring while I was still teaching. So I had done some tutoring, like I had a little experience with that, but I was like, for all we know, I could get there and try and do it there and not be able to get any students or any clients or anything. So that part was still, there was some uncertainty, and especially because the timing, it was June of 2021. So zoom was like huge that literally changed. Oh, yes. I don't think I could have done this at all. So thankfully, I know that it came from the pandemic, which was obviously not great. But that's a helpful thing that came from is that helped to be able to share with so many more students. And As soon as I got here, I was able to get connected into a lot of Facebook groups and on next door and things to reach out to local people. And then I found some websites I could post on to reach out to students in other states and everything. So it did, I was able to get tutoring students very quickly. And it was for the first, maybe six months that we were here, I was only doing tutoring. Yeah. And after that is when I started to get involved with the homeschool community too. And then luckily, I don't know for sure, because I never really looked into it in San Diego, but I think where I'm at in North Carolina, the homeschool community is a lot bigger than it would have been if I was in San Diego. So that was another thing that helped a lot too, is we ended up landing in a place where there's So many homeschoolers around us. And so I think I got lucky in a lot of ways. It was like right place, right time kind of stuff. No,
Timmy Eaton:yeah, that really does sound like blessings. That's amazing. I'm just wondering first of all, I think North Carolina as a state is one of the biggest hubs for home education. I think a lot of conferences happen there and stuff like that but that is very like helpful that you were in a place where you could grow that business, especially in a lower cost of living area. So that's so beneficial to you and your husband. So then tell us about the mindful mentor. Like did you already have that established in, your tutoring in California or is that when in North Carolina, when you started the actual mindful mentor?
Jessica Eaton:Okay. The name, the mindful mentor. Actually came about in a roundabout way. When, so when my husband and I were still in San Diego, both of us were teachers. Actually, he was a robotics teacher and I was a math teacher and we both were feeling the same way of like love teaching, but don't want to be in the public school system anymore. So both of us were looking for jobs, just like we literally applied to anything, anywhere. And so that's how we ended up in North Carolina from San Diego is my husband was applying to engineering jobs and makerspace jobs. And so that's what he does now. He works in a makerspace in a university out here. So he still gets to work with students, but just outside of the confines of the public school system. So he's super happy. Cause he's like, I'm getting to do what I love, but in a way that's a lot better. And so then same thing for me. But when I was looking, I was trying to come up with different options for what I could do. And for a while. I focus a lot on like mindfulness and things just in life in general. And so I, for a while, I thought, like I said, I saw how like anxious and stressed and hard things were for. My students, the like middle schoolers and high schoolers. And so for a while, I thought I maybe wanted to be like a teen life coach or something like that maybe. And so I was trying to go that direction at first. And so that's actually where the name mindful mentor came from is that was going to be the name of my like life coaching for teens business.
Timmy Eaton:So you had like elements of I'm guessing like meditation, yoga type,
Jessica Eaton:and because I was like, I think things like that can really help these students who I'm seeing in the public school system who are stressed and anxious. So anxious, right. And, I wanted to go that way, but I kept getting everyone, people knew that I was a math teacher. And so people would ask me, can you tutor me? Can you help? And so I would always get pulled back in the math. Tutoring direction, and teaching math is where my heart is anyways. And so that's how I ended up. I was like, okay, I'm not going to focus on that anymore. I'll just focus on math. And I kept the name when I did start my company and I kept it because that's part of, my whole thing was, I want to teach math in a way that's different from how public school teaches it. And on my website I think it says teaching math mindfully and so I, I consider my classes as like when I say teaching math mindfully I think of it as In a mindful way that meets the kids where they're at versus we just have to meet these standards. I don't care if you guys get them. I don't care how we're going to move on. I'm just like being more mindful about the way that I teach it. So I was like, okay, I think this title still works. So that's why I kept it from,
Timmy Eaton:no, I think it totally works. That's great. And then you've talked a little, you talked quite a bit about what you're offering. So a lot of classes. So you scale it too. So you can teach groups and tutor individuals, but are you able to tutor individuals anymore? Has it gotten to the point where you can't really do that?
Jessica Eaton:So I have, I don't, on my website, I've got the I teach four different levels of class. So like my level one elementary is for like third, fourth grade level, level two elementary is fourth, fifth grade. And then for the middle school, I've got level one is sixth, seventh grade and level two is seventh, eighth grade. So those are my four classes that I teach and right now. I've got one of each of those in person. And then I've got one of each of them online. So it's only eight group classes that I'm teaching. And then the whole rest of the week, I've got open sessions for tutoring. And so most of my tutoring sessions are pretty booked up. My in person classes are not. Super full right now. Those kind of have fluctuated, you've got parents who are like, no, we go on vacation
Timmy Eaton:What percentage of your clientele is homeschoolers.
Jessica Eaton:Even in my private tutoring, majority of them are so I am available for tutoring from 10 to six. And so I've only got a few afterschool openings. And usually those get filled up really quick. The public school students who reach out, they're like I need an afterschool one. So the afterschool ones fill up real fast. Wow. I wondered when I started because at first when I was. Starting out tutoring, I was only doing it in the evening because I hadn't even thought about reaching the homeschool community. So I was only tutoring public school students who were home after three or four. But my husband would get home at five and I'd be tutoring from three to eight. And so as soon as he got home, I was busy. And when he was gone, I was, so I was like, I don't want to do this. And that's when my if you help the homeschool community, you can tutor in early in the day too and be done by the time he gets home and it'll be perfect. I was like, that's a great idea. So I still have a couple open sessions that are available at the times that public school students would need them. But I would say actually at this point, the majority of my private tutoring students are also homeschool
Timmy Eaton:students. And that's a pretty wide range of math and ages that you're teaching. One thing that I keep learning in this online world is that the more you niche down, that it actually opens up. More opportunity because you get so specific that you can target an audience better. Do you, have you seen that? Are you targeting a particular age group that you really enjoy one or that is responding more that you enjoy teaching more? Are you wanting to teach the high school, middle school levels, or do you like the elementary math or where do you want to target? Yeah. So
Jessica Eaton:so my classes are for grades three through eight, but then in tutoring, I tutor pretty much any grade. And I taught high school for five of my 10 years of teaching. And honestly cause I was a math major. I love math. And so I prefer like when I get the higher level students, I'm like, yes, I get to actually do some algebra two and some calculus. And I think it's fun. So I love tutoring those, but then, cause as a math teacher, you're a single subject. Teacher I was only qualified to teach middle or high school in the public school system, but then since doing tutoring in my classes, I've started tutoring and teaching younger students and from the beginning when I first wanted to be a teacher, I thought I wanted to teach elementary school because I love working with younger kids. Yes, when I realized I love math so much. I'm like, I don't want to have to teach. All those other subjects too, because to teach elementary there, what you couldn't be an elementary math teacher, you have to teach all the things I'm like, I can't do all those things. But
Timmy Eaton:what's cool about that is you can do that in this business, because you can be, I'm the math girl for homeschool students.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. So if I stayed in public school, I never would have gotten to teach the younger students, but. This has given me the opportunity to teach math also to younger students. So I don't know, when you ask which one I prefer I love the students at the elementary level, but I love the content at the higher level. So that's why I do both because I like both.
Timmy Eaton:And this is a hard thing. I'm reluctant to even ask it but do you notice differences? Between the kids that you were teaching in the public system and these homeschool kids? Are there definite differences in the student and in the way they are, or is it pretty much the same?
Jessica Eaton:A hundred percent differences, like day and night,
Timmy Eaton:like you're not even reluctant to say it. Not even tell us, tell me some about that because I'm exposed to the homeschool world and the public school and I can see things so I just want to hear from your observation and your experience, what are you seeing? What's, what do you see as differences?
Jessica Eaton:Yeah I feel like my homeschool students, they seem so much happier. They actually care about what they're learning, but they're not just learning it to take a test tomorrow. They get to be creative and they get to show they're learning in so many more ways. And so they're less stressed, like I was telling you the, when I was teaching in public school, the kids were so stressed and anxious and their self esteem was so low because of all these tests they get back that they don't get what they thought they should get. And a lot of people argue that homeschooling isn't great because like, how will they be socialized, but a lot of times the ways they're socialized in school are not positive. And the homeschool kids that I'm working with who are not around the bullying and the bad influences and all that stuff, they're happier and they're more. Innocent and they get to enjoy their childhood and they're
Timmy Eaton:One thing that I see every day is they're not conscious of Oh if I say this that's gonna sound like i'm smart and so the poor kids in The system Are constantly navigating the reputation with what kids think. And a lot of homeschool kids, when they come into a setting like that, they don't know to be on guard about that. And so they sound like they're answering a lot of questions or, when they get into a public sphere, cause I have a lot of homeschool kids mixed into what I teach and they get looks from kids and, that's what people talk about when they talk about socialization, but what they're saying with socialized is not like the. The institutional term socialized that what they're saying typically is when people say what about the social, they're saying they do things that are uncommon to what's culturally acceptable. And so in that way, they're weird. And that's such a generalization anyway but for people that actually understand what the term socialized means, what we're saying is. Proper socialization can talk to people at different ages, feel healthy, like you said, that they're healthy internally and externally and and not that it's perfect and there's exceptions to all of it, and it's not that kids that are homeschooled aren't, they're not oblivious to what kids think but they have been taught that it's okay to give answers and to go, Oh, I actually know about this. I'm going to say this because they're not fearing. The repercussions of their peers,
Jessica Eaton:right? Exactly. I remember one of my first years of teaching middle school. I had an eighth grader who he was like, failing all his tests and everything. And he came in and worked with me and he was doing great. And I was like, I'm like you're killing it. What, what's going on in class? He's it's not cool to seem smart. I don't want my friends to know that I'm smart. So I like purposely don't do well. I'm like, Oh, common man. Yes. Especially at that age, like middle school, you're like, Oh, it's not cool to say I like math or to be good at math or to answer questions in class. And so that's part of their trajectory is they're like I'm going to pretend I'm not good at it and that sucks. It
Timmy Eaton:does. It's it's such a bummer to hear that because you go, how many kids were steered in a direction literally on the power of peer influence. That's so lame. Like the thing I always say to my kids, I go, dude, the day you graduate. The day you graduate, you don't care anymore because guess what you go to university or to a job and nobody cares if you were the cool kid in high school but it has so much power because you were on the basketball team or the football team or you were the theater person, whatever. And again, I'm not saying it's all bad, but what I'm saying is if that's literally what, where the emphasis goes. That's not good for any system to prevent potential trajectories that could have been so positive for these kids. That's sad to hear.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah, it really is. And like in my classes, I think I mentioned that they're like level one, level two. I don't go, I don't have a third grade class and a fourth grade class and a fifth grade, because I don't want them to be confined to a certain grade level just by their age. So I had a nine year old, he went all the way through my level two. middle school class, which is an eighth grade level class. He was nine and he crushed it. If he had been in elementary school, he would be stuck in a fourth grade class, bored out of his mind. And then like probably getting in trouble because he was too bored. And so obviously this kid wasn't worried about looking too smart because he just went right through it because he's like, no, I'm so lost. and that's another thing that I think is a problem with public school is kids either get held back by say they could have moved faster than the pace of the class, or they are pushed ahead faster than they should because the teacher's like, Oh, you don't know it. Oh we got to move on.
Timmy Eaton:That is so relevant. And as you're saying that I just feel like to commend you, Jessica, because like you were having these questions before you were even exposed to the homeschool world and you were just thinking this on your own. I wish I could say the same thing about me. Cause I, it took my wife to start asking the questions for me to open my eyes. Yeah. And to start to wonder and question a few things. So I commend you for just thinking through things and thinking what's best for kids and what's best for your future children. And that's so impressive that you came to that on your own. Whereas I had to like really read through homeschool literature and, and really have years of experience being a homeschool dad before I was like, okay, this is awesome. Like, I love this. So that's impressive that you've done that so quickly. And I feel like you get the principles of it this traditional way of education in homeschool way I had a question about your business. How do you approach, when you have somebody that just goes, okay, I want to learn level, whatever math. Do you use a particular curriculum? Are you developing your own? What are you doing with students? How do you ascertain where they're at and where to go with them and that kind of thing?
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. So in my classes, the lessons that I'm teaching, it is my own like lessons that I've created. Because I'm used to lesson planning, I did for 10 years. But that's also another thing that I'm super excited about being able to do this on my own is I can pull resources from I like this piece and I like this,, cause if I tried to just be like, I'm going to follow this curriculum, I'm sure there'd be parts of it that I'd be like, I don't like that. I want to teach it a different way. So I'm like let me just make my own lesson the way that I, cause that was an issue I had when I'd be teaching. I'd have to follow the textbook that they gave me. And I'm like, no, this lesson is this dumb. We shouldn't teach it this way. Let's teach it that way. But I have to teach it this way. Cause it's, what's going to be on the test. And so now I have the freedom to teach cause after 10 years, I've seen what ways work and what ways don't, and so I can now. Get rid of the ones that I've seen that don't, and change them. And and that's been super awesome for me to be able to teach the way that I want to. And I think it is helping students a lot too to not have to just be like this is what they told me to teach you. So I'm going to teach it this way, whether I like it or not,
Timmy Eaton:so do you have an actual like workbook or a text that you have created kind of thing? Or is it more just like your own lesson plans that you're compiling as you go?
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. By now I've, this is my second or third year of teaching my classes. And I don't do the exact same thing every year. Of course, I changed things that I found needed to be changed or for if I'm like, oh, this group can go faster. We'll do it differently. Or this group can go slower. So I do change stuff around, but by now I've got a, starting point at least. And I'm currently working on developing into a curriculum that I might try to settle to homeschool parents who don't necessarily want to sign up for classes and have to be out of class every Wednesday or, have their kids sign in,
Timmy Eaton:yeah, they want a more flexible
Jessica Eaton:way to do it, and so I figured I'm like I've created these lessons. So now I, if there's people who want to learn these lessons, but not. On a schedule and they want to do it self paced, that would be something I'd love to be able to provide too. So I'm working on transitioning my lessons into a package that I could send to a parent and be like, here, you can teach this on your own. And being the mindful mentor and trying to teach it mindfully. In creating this, I'm trying to come up with ways to make it flexible. So if you, as the parent want to be the full on teacher here, I'll show you exactly what you need to do to teach the lesson yourself. If you're the parent, who's like, I hate math. I do not want to be the teacher. Then here's a video that you can watch, either have your kid, watch it or watch it with them. And then. Here's what you can do from there. So I'm like, I'm trying to make it extra flexible so that my parents can decide how they want the curriculum to be versus just like, here it is what it is kind of a thing. So yes, I've created my own lessons for my classes and I'm currently in the process of developing them into a self paced curriculum. It's a lot. I thought it was going to be easy because I was like, Oh, I've already got this. But to make it into that package that parents could use is taking a long time
Timmy Eaton:and especially when you're thinking of, how is this going to be adapted and customized to and tailored to the individual student, but I guess that's up to them or their parents. And so one thing I was thinking as you were saying that is maybe the thing that would take a little bit of pressure off of you or somebody else who creates curriculum is. You can't go wrong by teaching principles and you can package them in a very specific Jessica Eaton way. Charlotte Mason is one of the best minds in the homeschool world. And she talks about living books and living textbooks and and that even applies to math, like reading books and reading about people. And one of the things I was thinking, was if you just really focused on principles and then laid them out in your own unique way, then it allows for the myriad ways that it can be applied and maybe that would apply to any subject matter, because if you're teaching history or. LA or language or math, you're teaching principles that are transcendent and universal, but then you put your own little flair that could be more enjoyable or whatever it is. And I think that's where that's why you have a business. You're able to, people are buying Jessica because they're going, she's awesome at that. I read your testimonials and I was like, yeah, you can tell that you're connecting with people. And it, and so that's where the uniqueness comes in because math principles are math principles but I like the mindful element in it and then, and the way that present that to the people that you work with. Is there any curricula that you would recommend? To use or stay away from and maybe that's a risky question, you kind of explained how my wife does homeschooling. She picks and pulls all over the place and then it becomes Sarah's homeschool. It's just so unique to her and one of the reasons we started this podcast is people are constantly asking us about homeschooling and what we're doing with our kids and I'm like the personality that's like, Oh, let me tell you, and sorry. I was like, don't do that. Because you can't franchise because it's so unique. Like you just, your kids are unique. Your family's unique. And so you got to be really gifted at talking about principles. So with all that you picking and pulling from all these different places what are some things that you would recommend and maybe even stay away from according to you?
Jessica Eaton:That is a very tough question because it's so individualized and like I was saying in public school, you're given, the teacher is given the textbook and they have to teach this curriculum, and that's one of the things I love about homeschooling is that you can try a curriculum, if it's not working out, you can switch, whereas in public school, you're stuck with that for the year, even if you're not learning from it, That's too bad. Or if, even if you're the teacher you're working with is just not meshing with you, they're explaining it in a way that doesn't make sense. You're stuck for a year. That's a great point. So with homeschooling, there's not one that I've been like, this is the best and everyone should try it. And personally, I've mostly researched math curriculum and I actually, I created a. Spreadsheet that I have available. Yeah, I
Timmy Eaton:saw that. I saw that on your site.
Jessica Eaton:So I have specifically for math curriculum, because there's so many out there, and I honestly started it for myself because I was like, I want to remember all of this information. And then I was like you know what? This is probably helpful for other families who are looking for it too. So I would just say not to be like, you should go get my spreadsheet, but look on there. Because I have it. Laid out so that it's like, these are the ages that it's available for. These are the students that, the kind of students who would benefit from this if you have a student who's a visual learner, this one's really good. If you have a student who likes doing worksheets and likes having a lot of practice problems, this curriculum is really good. It's definitely based off of the student. Cause in my tutoring, most of the students bring whatever curriculum they're using to me and we work through that together. So I have actually used several different curriculum personally. I haven't loved, I know I'm going to, I'm going to no,
Timmy Eaton:I think anyone listening will just know that this is your recommendations and take it for what it's worth, whatever.
Jessica Eaton:I haven't loved Saxon, at least for the higher levels. And I know everyone, I feel like everyone
Timmy Eaton:loves Saxon. Well, And we stirred away from it too. So you're talking a like mind here, but again, I don't know it enough personally to say that, but we've always landed somewhere else, but anyway, go ahead.
Jessica Eaton:And I haven't used it a ton. I've used it with one or two students at the high school level and then one or two at the like. Lower level elementary middle. I liked it better for elementary and middle school. Once I got to high school I just felt like it was explaining things in a very like difficult convoluted way of just like If you would explain that in regular words, they would totally understand it. But the way that you guys laid that out I'm like, what are you talking about? So that was my personal experience some maybe for the higher level students who prefer to have it Written out that way, then that's probably great. But personally, that's one that I only recommend if your student is like pretty advanced. Yeah. So I don't know. That's my personal opinion on it. I'm only using it a few times. I'm trying to think if there's 1 that I've liked the most. I don't know. I think Christian light is one I'm using with a student who and it breaks it down really well and it chunks it out, which I think is good too. It's like, here's a book of just a few units at a time. And it is one that does some like spiral review. That depends on what you're looking for. Some students love that because it helps them remember old things. Some students are like, oh my gosh, they've asked me this question 25 times. I'm ready to move on and be done.
Timmy Eaton:That's funny because as you say that, I think of the way that my wife approaches it with our kids the way I do. Like, when I'm helping them with math, which I've done throughout the years, I've gone on and off. And, but math has typically been my thing with the kids. And I'm like just go through every question because with math, you need to repeat and repeat. And my wife is so if you get it, just move on, skip all 10 of those. And again, she opens my mind to things all the time because she's just like you're using that. Don't let it use you. And it's good for me to hear. But I'm so like thorough. I'm like no, you need to do all of them and she's no, you don't just skip that because you get the concept, move on.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. When I'm working with students a lot of times, if they bring me a page of their curriculum that has 20 problems on it, if we've done five of them of the same kind and they've gotten it and they're at a point where they don't even hardly need me. Anymore, especially if they don't need me anymore. I'm like, okay, we're not going to do the other 15. We're going to move on to another section. And then they've got those other 15 if they want, if a month from now, they want to go back and see if they remember, then they can do some more of them. But I'm the same way as your wife of we'll do a few once you've proven you've got it,
Timmy Eaton:then we can move on. Good. And I I trust you more than me.
Jessica Eaton:I don't feel like I answered your question. I don't have a favorite one. I don't have any that I would say stay away from these. There's so many good options. And
Timmy Eaton:I think that's awesome. That's why I think you answered it perfectly because, and I think you really did because to give a definite answer would be contrary to exactly what you were trying to get away from. That's the beauty of the flexibility because there might be one that you despise. And even as a mathematician and a teacher, a math teacher, somebody else might really like it. And and if it teaches them the principle, then so be it. Like I, the variety of ways is. The beauty of it. That's such a reality. I was just thinking about, if you have one teacher, I feel bad for the kids that have me and I'm not their style because it's just they're stuck with me for at least a semester and that's tough because it could affect their learning and I'm doing my best to inspire learning and yeah it doesn't always resonate with hopefully we're hitting a critical mass, but you're never gonna reach every single one of them So well, are you okay? If we transition just for the last little bit about the future in projecting into when you consider the educational options, there's so many today for our kids, where are you leaning? When you have kids look for our
Jessica Eaton:kids. I'm leaning towards homeschool, but my husband and I, we haven't fully sat down and been like, let's decide exactly what we're going to do because our kids aren't even here yet. So we haven't quite gotten to that point. And I'm the one who has done the dive into the homeschool world. My husband hasn't really. So he may need a little more convincing. And that's not me being like, I'm dead set and I'm going to convince him whether he likes it. We're going to for sure, consider all the options and talk about it. And, but what's awesome is there are so many options. Personally, I'm leaning towards homeschooling or there's hybrid options where they can go to a school part time and then homeschool part time and Montessori and all, there's just so many different options. So currently. I feel like because of all the reasons that we talked about of why I don't love the public school system, I don't want to send my kids into the public school system if I can help it. I'm feeling that way too. Yeah. And I just feel cause I have friends who are still teachers. Many of my teacher friends have also quit. But I do have some who are still teachers. And just when they talk about it, it just sounds like it's getting worse and worse. It's I already thought it was bad when I was there and it seems to be going downhill. And if my kids won't even be in school for another five to who knows how many years, who knows how much worse it will be by then, and like with. Teachers, the number of teachers that are leaving, that just means class sizes are getting bigger. Yes, bigger sizes is the main problem. So I'm just like I can't imagine sending my kids there. And my husband, obviously he wanted to get out too. He was teaching and he, so he knows what the system is like. So it's not like he's yeah, public school is great. Let's send them,
Timmy Eaton:but I love that you're aware that there are options because I can't tell you how many people are not aware that there are options and that, that was me, 20 years ago when we were considering and cause we've been doing this for at least 15, 16, 15 plus 16 years. And I've seen two kids go all the way through it, but if somebody said, why are you sending your kid to school? I'd be like, what do you mean? What else do you do? No, even if, yeah. Had I heard of private school, had I heard of charger school? Yeah. Who does that? Anyway, at least those were my very naive thoughts at that point. And now with the homeschool world, you really can universities and schools, people are open to more options. So I love that you're aware that there are different options. And I'm definitely biased because I've looked into all the other things and they still just have elements of school to me. And that's why I don't even like the term homeschool because I don't think it's accurate. To me, like somebody said in a recent podcast, the word shepherding, and I was like, I liked that because you're basically guiding your kids. And one thing I always say to people who are have their kids in public system, but are thinking of homeschooling. I'm like you're already outsourcing and you don't stop that. I'm not teaching. I can't go above grade eight math with my kids at this stage. And so could I, if I put my mind to it? Yes. But but I'm not taking the time to do that. And so I'm going to Jessica Eaton or I'm going to somebody else. And so you're a perfect example of how homeschool families are outsourcing to so many. And with online, you can tap into a giant world of experts. And so you're learning math from the experts and you're learning history from people who are so passionate about it and not burnt out in dealing with classroom management and unengaged parents and whatever else
Jessica Eaton:I fully agree and honestly lately what i've been saying is it sounds Maybe crazy, but I honestly believe that the current public school system is obsolete. We don't need it anymore. Because, like you said, we don't, we no longer need to go to a building and learn from the one teacher who knows it. We have access to the entire world's worth. You want to learn literally anything in the world? You can, as and most of it for free on YouTube or whatever, you know, and so I literally think that the way the public school system is set up now it's obsolete for the times that we are in now. And so I agree with you that homeschooling and being able to do what you want and learn the things, how you want, like whatever's best for you, it just makes the most sense. So that's why I'm like. Fully leaning towards
Timmy Eaton:homeschool. Yeah. And if I could add one thing to that cause cause I agree. With what you said about now it's become obsolete, but I would almost even maybe suggest that it's been obsolete for a long time. We're mindful of not having Kids on screens all the time. There are books and we have books and books. And one thing that distinguishes most traditional homeschool families is library cards. Stacks of books from the library. And books are teaching our kids and get the best books. Charlotte Mason calls it twaddle. Basically. I personally call it bubble gum. There's so much good out there. Don't waste your time with the books that are not inspiring and edifying. And each person is going to determine what they find to be edifying and to be, excellent books, so can I ask you just a few questions about the potential of maybe homeschooling First of all, if somebody were to ask you right now, so what's their main reason? Like why'd you choose that? What would be like your main reason?
Jessica Eaton:I would say to be able to tailor my kids education to their exact needs. Cause there's no, way for the education system to meet. Every single kid where they're at if they need to go slower on something I can let them go slower if they are like my nine year old who passed my eighth grade class and want to go fast and fly through it. I can let them do that too. And if there's topics that they don't. Care about and that aren't necessary for later on, I'm not going to force them to do it just because the school system told me to, or if there's like a topic, they're really interested in excited about, I can let them focus on that. Whereas if they're in post school, they might not have time because they're too busy focusing on their six classes. You know what I mean? So like the personalization is the main thing that I love
Timmy Eaton:about that. Yeah. I love it. Such a good answer. And maybe I'll keep these, I'm going to keep these rapid coming at you. So yeah. Talk about the environment, not versus, but compared to maybe the curriculum, like as a, as somebody who has taught for years and as a, future mom, what will matter more to you? Do you anticipate the environment of learning or what they choose to learn as far as curriculum and.
Jessica Eaton:This might be a cop out, I feel like, but I feel like both are very are like equally as necessary because being able to switch curriculum if it's not working for them. That's going to be huge. I want to be able to have the freedom to find the one that. Helps them learn the best way that because they're, kinesthetic learners and then there's hands on learners and then there's people who need to see visual representations. And so I think it's super important to find the 1 that fits their learning style. And then I also think the environment of you were saying, some people try and make homeschool be school at home and I don't want that either. I'd like to create a good environment where they actually feel. Comfortable learning and motivated and they're not stressed out and anxious. So I feel like that's maybe a cop out, but I feel like
Timmy Eaton:both, I don't think it's a cop out at all. That's great. What would you say about nature and outdoors? Do you have any feelings about that? Cause one thing that is. Beautiful about the homeschool world is that it affords that flexibility to do that. And that is really lacking in a lot of kids lives, all the way through to university. And so what do you think the difference it makes? And what do you do you care at all about getting kids outside? And I love that you're in North Carolina. Cause you can get out all year round pretty much, but yeah.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah, definitely. I fully agree that being outdoors is super helpful for kids and I want to put an emphasis on that too. And I feel like with homeschooling, one of the things I talk about if you've seen any of my videos or anything, I talk about how in the public school system, another issue I have with it is that it's so long, like kids are sitting at a desk learning for seven hours. And then if they have two or three hours of homework at night, they're really just sitting at a desk all day doing
Timmy Eaton:nothing
Jessica Eaton:but I know in most of the homeschool families that I work with it depends on the age, but anywhere from one hour a day when they're young, to maybe four hours a day at high school level unless they're taking college classes on top of their stuff. They can end up working a lot in high school, but they my point is that it doesn't have to take the 7 to 10 hours a day every single day that the public school system takes. So by homeschooling, you can get your work done so much faster and then have time to be out in nature and to be hanging out with friends and to play sports and do the things that. Public school students don't have as much time to do because they're stuck in a classroom all day. So I think it is super important that they get out in nature. And then, with math, especially at the higher level, there's not a ton of ways you can incorporate nature into that specifically, but you can go sit outside and do your work. You're not in a classroom. Stuck at a desk or there is, I saw, I know, I think it's wild learning. I think they're awesome. They've got up, I think they're K through five and they've got a math curriculum that is nature based. And I'm like, I love that. It's so cool. Like they incorporate nature into learning math.
Timmy Eaton:I'm going to look into that. It's called wild
Jessica Eaton:learning. Wild learning. Yeah, they have a math curriculum and a reading curriculum that's all nature based. And it's really cool. That's
Timmy Eaton:somewhat familiar, but I want to look into that. Check that out.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. But so I do agree that it is important and I think homeschooling allows more flexibility to be able to be out in nature and enjoy. Life and nature and childhood.
Timmy Eaton:Yes. Yes. And that's why we call this podcast is called this golden hour because it's the, it's this golden hour where we want flexibility because they only have these 18 years once, and so to have that flexibility and that time to really Instill the love of learning and just this magical moment of being with your kids also. And speaking of that and flexibility and being with your kids, if you start having kids and then you have this business, what's cool about the homeschool world is and to tie in what you just said about. It doesn't take that much time. And then we should really give our kids a lot of free time and open play time and exploration time. That really lends itself to what your, to your life, because you're, you work from home and you can do other things, but you could really do it solely if you wanted to at home. And so you have the flexibility to really homeschool your kids based on any schedule that you create, whether it's morning or night, whatever you want to do. And then do your business. But if you can anticipate the future, let's say you've got, three or four kids or something and they're running around, they're doing their thing. It still is a ton of work for the homeschool mom principally, or whoever the principal parent is doing the homeschooling. How do you imagine yourself filling your bucket when you experience a little bit of burnout or you just need a break for yourself. How do you anticipate finding that for you? What will give you the breath of fresh air to be able to go back the next day and be like, okay, cool. Or the next couple of days. Yeah. How will you fill your bucket?
Jessica Eaton:That's a good question. I think that's one of the things that is appealing to me about homeschooling is the flexibility of the schedule too. So if me or the kids have, we've been working for four or five days a week and we're feeling burnt out, so they're like, okay guys, we're going to do, we're going to take a break today. We're going to go on a field trip or, go do something instead of being like we have to get this done. We're on a schedule and we have to, like in public school, I was like, I had to have to teach this, all this curriculum by this date. Whereas that's not the case with homeschooling. I'm afraid that it's going to be tricky. I'm going to have to de school myself, get out of the school.
Timmy Eaton:And that's an ongoing thing. I still do too, for sure.
Jessica Eaton:Yeah. So I'm afraid that I will personally be like, no, I have to, I've planned this out. I got to be on the schedule and I'm going to, so to fill my cup, I'm going to try to make myself Let myself be a little more flexible and be like, no, let's take the day off. We're all feeling a little crazy. Let's go to the park today or something. You know what I mean? Get out in nature. And then I love, you can see, I love playing music. And so that's one of my ways I fill my cup. And so that's, if I can carve time into my day, like you said, I'm in a pretty good position to be able to make my own schedule with work and homeschooling and everything. Trying to be mindful of carving out time to play music and to get out in nature and to do the things that I love to, and the flexibility to be able to do that with my kids
Timmy Eaton:too. And, a lot of that really depends on your kids because you could have a really high needs child. There's so many factors and I would just say also that your husband will definitely play a role in that and in facilitating you, filling your bucket. And, some people look at regular exercise or they look at being able to get in with a co op or like minded moms and be able to really talk one, one thing that I've heard on this, on these episodes, so from so many seasoned homeschool parents. Moms in particular is to say, find yourself a very wise homeschool friend, maybe like your neighbor, somebody who's been through. And one thing that I would suggest is to get somebody who's just ahead of you in homeschooling, because then they're going through all of it and they, you just glean so much. I can't tell you how blessed we've been from people who are. Their kids have just graduated and our kids have it yet. And they're in the young adult years and dating and you're like how are you navigating this? That's just life too, but in the homeschool, it's awesome to go. What, yeah. What did you do for math or what did you do for when they were in grade nine or grade 10, whatever it is. So it's so helpful to have mentors. I want to ask you two more questions and then if you have any questions for me and then we'll close. One is, what is something, what is the kind of stuff that you would counsel homeschool families? If you were talking to new homeschool families that were really overwhelmed and they're just starting, because you've had exposure to lots of families now, what would be your advice to overwhelmed families who are just starting the homeschool world or looking into it?
Jessica Eaton:That's a tough one because I feel like different families are overwhelmed for different reasons. Some of them are like, my schedule too crazy. Some are like, I don't know how to teach all the things. So I guess it, depend on what it is that, that they're feeling the most stressed about. But I would, I guess I would just say to, take a step back and like you were saying, decide why you're doing it and what's the important stuff. Because if someone's trying to squeeze in all of the things, it's like maybe you're trying to squeeze in things that don't need to be, In there, so if you decide that the important parts for you are to have a well rounded student who loves learning and then we don't have to worry about doing math and science and history and English and this every single day, finding a way to teach the things you need to teach, but in a way that fits into your schedule. So I guess what I would say is like to plan. School around your life and not life around school. So that way, like then that, because I think that's one of the cool things about homeschooling is you get to do that. Like I was saying, if you're burnt out, you can take a day off if you need to, and it's not going to be the end of the world. So seeing what is going on in your life and then plan it, fitting in schooling around that versus trying to be like, I have to teach them for six hours a day and we have to teach all these and then I'll fit in life around that. So I don't know if that. Oh, that
Timmy Eaton:is awesome. And Jessica, as you're saying things, I'm like, holy cow, you're like a seasoned homeschool mom. And I guess it's because you do have like lots of kids in your tutoring and in your classes. You just, you've had a lot of it like thrown into the fire, so last one I had for you was what would you want to hear on this podcast? What would be helpful for you personally to hear discussed on this podcast that you'd be like, Oh, that's helpful. I want to hear that kind of stuff discussed.
Jessica Eaton:As if I was a homeschool parent listening and
Timmy Eaton:yeah, or even for you right now, like what would be, what would you find helpful and what would engage your interest in listening?
Jessica Eaton:Cause I think, like I said, I'm really leaning towards homeschooling, but we haven't made our full decision. And so I would maybe want to, cause, and I know a lot of parents are still the people who are like on the fence. So oh, should I make the jump? So it's I guess I would like to hear. About'cause you said, have you said all of your kids were fully homeschooled? Yeah. Yeah. Like none went into the public school system. Is there anything that, like you or your kids wish that you had experienced as a homeschooler that you would have as a. Public school student or that you think your kids. I don't know. I'm not asking.
Timmy Eaton:Yeah. No, I see you're saying like you're saying there's stuff that they feel like they missed out on because they did homeschool or they, what's interesting about one, one response I would give to that is so we recent, like about four years ago, moved to a community where we used to live. And it's a very like minded community. Yeah. Small community, but like high school sports is like big and especially basketball. And our kids have been into that. And when we were, people have had questions, can homeschool kids do that? And in, in the States, you have lots of homeschool leagues. Anyway, one, one comment I would make is we were pushing for kids to be able to play in the schools because just if they live in the same community, can they make the team type thing? Our kids have done that. They've played on the school teams, but I'll tell you, it's been one of the biggest challenges also, because. We're a homeschool family and there's reasons why we chose this route. Is to escape some of those things, not to shelter and to, hide your kids from the world or something like that, but to teach in a different way, like you were saying, you're exposed to things that are young ages and whatever else. And it's not even bad things. It's just not the best things in our opinion as a family. So a lot of the school mentality has been brought into my kids and they bring it home sometimes. So that's been like a, that's one of the things that we were lamenting at first Oh, we want them to be able to participate in these activities. And now we're Oh, dang, man, I'm not sure we wanted to do that because now they're so into it. And it's we basically, for a couple of our kids they, they're so into it that it's like, they're not really adhering to the same homeschool philosophies that we espouse. And yeah. So that's a challenge. But as far as missing out on stuff, like I feel totally confident saying not at all. Like this world is so diverse and what all the system does in my opinion is makes you not tap into that diversity. And so homeschoolers actually tap into that diversity and we get out and socialize in a way that's way more. And the learning is more self directed. And so I don't know, I can't say enough good, but I'm obviously biased. So that's one response. I don't know if that helps,
Jessica Eaton:but yeah, no, that and that's exactly that's like my assumption. And that's why it's my only question really is because I that's my full assumption. And all the students who I work with, They play sports, they go to prom, they have graduation. So like they do all the things. So like when people do mention to me Oh, but I'm afraid my kid will miss out. I'm like, from my experience with all this homeschool students I've worked with, I don't think anyone's missing out on anything, but I just, I, since I'm not currently doing it myself, I'm like, am I. Am I wrong in assuming that's why I'm like I would want to hear from other homeschool family I promise you they're not missing it on stuff because in my opinion, I don't think they are but I don't know if i'm You'll
Timmy Eaton:formulate and to be to answer the question. The answer is actually yes, they are missing out They're missing out on like you mentioned unhealthy relationships in the school. They're missing out on like giant class sizes where they can't, they're missing out on like, when you say prom and all that yeah, kids do that. And a lot of homeschool are like, that's why we didn't want to do that lame stuff, but that's imposing our opinions on our kids. But I just like, when I think back, I'm like, Oh, how much emphasis was placed on things that, like I said, when they graduate. Nobody cares, man. And so I want my kids to not experience their youth years and have fun, but you can do that in ways that are so different from the typical cultural North American TV, driven way. And it's that's exactly what I'm trying to escape.
Jessica Eaton:What you were just saying, like the things I'll miss out on. It's funny because I literally, I don't know if you've seen my tick tock, but that's What I literally have a series on things your homeschooler will miss out on. And it's like big class sizes, sitting for hours, like all the stuff. I literally have a series on that exact thing. So
Timmy Eaton:I haven't looked at that. So that's that's cool that we were on the same page there. It's been like I'm just looking at the time and I'm mindful of yours. Are there any other questions that you want to ask in, in before we close? Or
Jessica Eaton:I don't think so. Like I said, I think my main question is just since I'm not. A homeschool parent, myself, I like want to ask all every homeschool parent I talk to are there, is there reasons that you think like anything that you regretted or do you think they miss out or any of that stuff? And it sounds yeah, the answer is no.
Timmy Eaton:Yeah. Yeah. And again, everyone's going to have their different answer to that. But for us definitely. In fact, if I guess we would say at this stage, having seen it is that we wish we were probably more true to the homeschool traditional way than we have. Allowed in the last few years. And but anyway it's definitely a navigation and I'd be interested to talk to you in the years to come and see how you've navigated that and what your, how your philosophies change. And I'm sure, I think it's good to be flexible because times change, life changes, but the principles will remain the same. This has been an awesome conversation. I'm really grateful for your time. Thanks for, and I think you're doing an excellent job. I wish we could tap into some of your resources and. And encourage people to do that. Can you just tell everybody where they can find you all the different places and how to connect with Jessica Eaton? Yeah.
Jessica Eaton:So my website is mindfulmentor. com, but unfortunately mindful is not spelled correctly. It's spelled with two L's because the regular way was already taken, so I had to get
Timmy Eaton:creative. Oh, that's okay. But that's cool too. Like full of mindful. And I like
Jessica Eaton:that's why I kept it. Cause I was like, your mind is getting full when you're learning math. So I was like, it works, right? It works. It works. Yeah, so mindfulmentor. com is my website and I'm on TikTok and Instagram. I think TikTok it's mindful. mentor. Instagram is just mindfulmentor. And then yeah, on there I've got like links to like the spreadsheet I was telling you about that compares the math curriculum and I also have a spreadsheet of All homeschool resources in all categories. And it's organized by carriers, like hundreds of them in there. Again, cause I was like, I want to keep track of this and come back to it when I need it. But then I was like I think other people will need it too. So I've got lots of resources and stuff in there.
Timmy Eaton:No, thank you for doing that. Thank you very much. And I, again, I encourage all listeners to take a look at what Jessica has. So thank you very much again for being with us. Yeah.
Jessica Eaton:Thank you so much for having me.
Timmy Eaton:That wraps up another edition of this golden hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it. If you would take a minute and give us a review in Apple podcasts or Spotify, it helps out a lot. And if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.