This Golden Hour

124. Mercer Lawrenson and Sunrise Films

• Timothy Eaton

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In today’s episode, we get to spend time with Mercer Lawrenson from Manitoba. Mercer is a young homeschool father of three children and a second generation homeschooler himself. Mercer and his wife, Rachelle, who was also homeschooled growing up, are the creators of Sunrise Films, focused on producing documentaries, including stories about homeschool families. Our conversation covered a wide array of topics, like intentional fatherhood, homeschooling as a lifestyle decision and not merely an educational choice, fostering strong relationships at home, homeschool couples being aligned about their priorities and values, and much more. Those who listen to this episode will be impressed with Mercer’s wisdom, understanding, confidence, and insights. Mercer provides us with a positive example of how homeschooling can set our children on a meaningful, successful course into the future.

Connect with Mercer

mercermakeshay@gmail.com

Sunrise Films

This Golden Hour

Mercer Lawrenson:

Dads are so important in teaching their children and being involved in their homes, and I think live events, rubbing shoulders and being encouraged is really transformational for dads, I find. Yeah. And been really encouraged to see so many fathers that I know really intentionally doing that. And it was wonderful to see and be raised by my dad and mom but my dad's leadership was I think very impactful in my life.

Timmy Eaton:

Hi. I am Timmy Eaton, homeschool father of six and Doctor of Education. We've been homeschooling for more than 15 years and have watched our children go from birth to university successfully and completely without the school system. Homeschooling has grown tremendously in recent years, and tons of parents are becoming interested in trying it out, but people have questions and concerns and misconceptions and lack the confidence to get started. New and seasoned homeschoolers are looking for more knowledge and peace and assurance to continue. New homeschooling. The guests and discussions on this podcast will empower anyone thinking of homeschooling to bring their kids home and start homeschooling and homeschoolers at all stages of the journey will get what they need and want from these conversations. Thank you for joining us today and enjoy this episode of This Golden Hour podcast. As you exercise, drive clean or just chill. You're listening to this Golden Hour podcast. In today's episode, we get to spend time with Mercer Lorensen from Manitoba. Mercer is a young homeschool father of three children and a second generation homeschooler himself. Mercer and his wife Rochelle, who was also homeschooled growing up, are the creators of Sunrise films focused on producing documentaries, including stories about homeschool families. Our conversation covered a wide array of topics like intentional fatherhood. Homeschooling is a lifestyle decision and not merely an educational choice. Fostering strong relationships at home, homeschool couples being aligned about their priorities and values and much more, those who listen to this episode will be impressed with Mercer's wisdom, understanding confidence and insights. Mercer provides us with a positive example of how homeschooling can set our children on a meaningful, successful course into the future. Welcome back to this Golden Hour podcast today. We are very delighted to have with us Mercer Lorensen from Manitoba. Thank you for being with US Mercer.

Mercer Lawrenson:

Thanks for having me. This is excellent.

Timmy Eaton:

We appreciate you taking time. And I know Mercer's wife, Rochelle was gonna join us, but they have little kids to take care of and so she is watching the kids.

Mercer Lawrenson:

Yeah. If you hear anybody squealing in the background, that'll be her trying to keep the little ones quiet. This is a

Timmy Eaton:

homeschool podcast, so we welcome those squeals, so that's totally fine. I should just have them running around in the background, right? Yeah honestly I'm cool with it. I'll just do a brief intro and then we'll jump into things. Mercer, is in Manitoba, and he and his wife were both homeschooled, growing up all the way through. And so I definitely wanna learn a lot about that. And they are the creators of Sunrise films. So they've gotten into this world. They've had an interest and they took that on and they're making short documentaries. One for homeschool families is called how Do They Homeschool, which is a, is that the three part series documentary.

Mercer Lawrenson:

So far, that's a three part series and we're hoping to do more so if anyone in your audience even is interested in maybe willing to display their homeschool life a little bit for people to see that wouldn't be a terrible idea for them to get in touch because we're looking for more people who are interested to show and tell people about what. Their life in homeschooling is like. We hope that three part series becomes many more parts to it

Timmy Eaton:

I feel like this podcast has introduced me to so many people that could be so I'll keep that in mind. And maybe in the show notes I can make that a point and then people can Sure. Contact me or you. What would be the best way to contact you if people did have interest in that?

Mercer Lawrenson:

My email address is Mercer makes Hey, at gmail.com. That's a great way to reach out to me. Or you can follow me on Instagram, just Mercer lauson. Message me there. Both of those could work decently well. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

Okay, perfect. That's great. Hopefully somebody contacts you from my audience. And so yeah they have three young children. What's the age range of your children, Mercer? We've got a 4-year-old, a two and a half year old, and an 11 month old. Oh, congratulations. That's beautiful. Right off the bat, I was just gonna ask do you guys plan on homeschooling?

Mercer Lawrenson:

Yeah, absolutely. We definitely both my wife and I grew up being homeschooled and enjoyed our experiences but have varied experiences in the rest of the world and have thought about it quite a bit and are just a hundred percent committed that, it's not to us only the best educational approach. It's the only approach where we feel that we can live our family life the way we feel called to, we're Christians and so we don't feel that education or the way we live is just neutral. But it's something that's so foundational and if we're going to be discipling our children and taking responsibility for their lives and their growth and our relationship with them. We need that time and that connection and we want to have relationship with so many other people and not only with our children, but we can't have someone else have more time with our kids than us as parents. Yeah. And so we're so committed to that. And we're with a 4-year-old. We're just in the very starting stages. We have a very studious young 4-year-old so he likes to do his letters and write names and draw and this sort of thing. So his homeschooling is developing. He's coming along. Even he just turned four. Wow. But yeah, we're very excited for what that future holds. And there will be a lot of little Lawrences getting homeschooled over the next few years.

Timmy Eaton:

It's cool to think of that's a third generation, right? It really resonated me when you said the time. I think, it's pretty obvious, but like I don't know if people put enough emphasis on what that means. Like the extra time that you have when you take six to eight hours times, five days a week, times a year. That is a ton of time where the number one influence can be parents who love them and have their best interest. And people will try to take this idea of sheltering which I don't mind the word sheltering, but I'm saying that it's like hiding people, or even from a Christian perspective, people will say that you're not allowing the leaven to be put into the loaf. And I just don't agree with that idea. I think the public system is not the only place where. Exposure to other people can take place. In fact, homeschoolers are learning that because they're homeschooling, they have this flexibility that allows them to get into such a wide variety of venues, not just one place like a school. And so I really appreciated your opening comments there.

Mercer Lawrenson:

I just really disagree with the concept that, especially young kids should be seen as oh, they need to be in school because they have a mission field there. Our children get to decide for themselves, I think the point that they're ready to be evangelizing or trying to reach out if that's what they're called to. My job as a parent is to share what God has given me to share it with my kids is a responsibility of mine. And then to share it with others. It's not my responsibility to make my kids do that. I wanna raise my kids. So they have a heart for that, but it's not their responsibility to do that. What they can do is they can be wonderful little sidekicks in my life and together as a family, my wife and my kids together. By having great relationships and a good family dynamic, that's an example that can turn some heads in public and people will be in intrigued by that. Sometimes when you see big happy families, people are like, huh, what's going on there? Yeah. And I know I have got a good friend who's, he's big in. And they're spend a lot of time doing ministry, and that's one of their key things is they are just a big family that sticks out like a sore thumb. And they use that to be their technique of meeting people and talking to people and showing people how they live, and being that example, it's not to toss little kids out there and try and say oh yeah, we gotta try and reform the public schools such a powerful system that has so much thought and design in it. Is not gonna be changed by a couple of kids. Not that there can't be good things that happen, but yeah. The negatives in my mind just outweigh the positives of that in such a big way. And that's not my choice. I'd say. I think it's my kids' choice when they're ready to launch themselves into what ministry they may be called to.

Timmy Eaton:

Mercer, that's a great response. I appreciate how much thought you've put into that, and I agree with you. You said the negatives outweigh, and I feel that profoundly, more and more I am seeing the unnecessary ness of the public system, but, if somebody said, Hey, are you anti-public school? I'd probably. I don't know that I'm anti-public school. I'm just more like, there's a better way to do things you said, the word neutrality, like that, it's not neutral. It's a very proactive decision to choose to homeschool and it's a lifestyle decision. And you even said to say nothing of the educational aspect of it, homeschooling is a lifestyle choice and academics is a beautiful byproduct that is quite positive in most cases. Do you have insight into like why your parents started homeschooling were they homeschooled themselves or did they take that plunge and how did they come about that? Tell us the background there.

Mercer Lawrenson:

I think a missionary named John Seabert. That my dad when he was a teenager, went out to Alberta from Manitoba and spent a month or two with his family who was homeschooling, like back in the. Early nineties, so not many people would've been doing this. And then when I was a little guy, they kept a relationship with this couple and they visited our home in Winnipeg. And this guy just after supper, cracked open the Bible and just read some passages and went to like, you know, you show teach the children diligently when you lie down, when you rise up, when you walk along the way and this sort of thing. So he pretty much pushed the question to my parents of do you really think you have a choice here? Is everything legitimately the same? Educationally from a biblical perspective and the conclusion my parents came to and and I would agree with is no, there is a call here to be intentionally with our children, a responsibility from God as parents to be with the children and teaching them well and there would've been a few factors, but that would've been the kind of the key story in my parents deciding, yeah, we're gonna homeschool our kids. And it was also a lifestyle. My dad grew up in the city, he decided we're gonna homeschool. He decided I wanna become a farmer. So when I was six years old, my parents. Sold their house in city, moved out to an old abandoned feedlot. Cool. So a little old house, a 75 acre farm of a lot of chaos and junk. And so they've been there for about 20 years now and have just total lifestyle change. We were the weird people in a lot of our friend groups, even among the homeschoolers, and then my dad started his own business. On the farm. And so everything was different. And it was a combined lifestyle that said, we're gonna work together, live together, learn together, play together.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah.

Mercer Lawrenson:

And it led to a family result. That was amazing. I have seven younger siblings. And that's been just a terrific life for all of us. But that was the impetus for my parents is they just felt like that was the only way they could fulfill the utmost of their call from God to teach their children.

Timmy Eaton:

And did one of your parents, your mom or dad drive that one more than the other? Or were they pretty just united on that as far as you could tell?

Mercer Lawrenson:

They were pretty united. My dad is the big ideas drive it guy. In my family but my mom was very bought in. And of the often homeschool dynamic mom ends up doing more of the bookwork time during the bulk of the day. Yeah. My dad was always involved with teaching things when he could. And we would do a lot of reading in the evenings with dad. So we'd have family bible time. Reading like news articles and stories, like some contemporary stuff, but then also books of looking back, classical books. Your Laura Ingles Wilder and your Chronicles of Narnia. And right now they're going through James Harriet whenever we end up back at home for I think reading time, switched to breakfast now. But James Harriet's books about being a vet and whatever, get read regularly and so that sort of thing. My dad's always doing that sort of thing a lot. Wow. So very involved from both parents and I'm very passionate about Dads being very involved with their kids. We had hosted a conference actually this fall called Raising Strong Disciples and had a couple hundred people come out. And my wife and I put a lot of effort into this because we really believe that. Dads are so important in teaching their children and being involved in their homes, and I think live events, rubbing shoulders and being encouraged is really transformational for dads, I find. Yeah. And been really encouraged to see so many fathers that I know really intentionally doing that. And it was wonderful to see and be raised by my dad and mom but my dad's leadership was I think very impactful in my life.

Timmy Eaton:

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate that. And it's interesting you say that because this past May, I went to the, ah, he a conference as a presenter and my presentation was Proactive Homeschool Dads. And it's also a course I created and I'll be doing a weekly webinar starting in January. And it's all about getting this course out there to help dads understand their role you keep saying the word intentional, and I love that to be more deliberate in our role, which a lot of times is overwhelming to dads. As they hear that and they go, dude, man, I'm working and I'm doing all these things. But what I really try to help dad see is that it actually isn't more time, it's just more intentionality. And I think it's something that that fathers want, right? They already have the role as husband and father, and now they can fulfill that. With more intention, with a little bit of guidance. When I started 17 plus years ago, homeschooling, I would've loved that type of instruction and guidance. And I've fumbled my way through it to come to where I am. And and you have such a headstart as somebody who's. Has observed it as being a student, being homeschooled and now approaching that as a homeschool father.

Mercer Lawrenson:

Yeah, we were talking, had a couple over last night who's got just a 1-year-old, but they're planning to homeschool. They were homeschooled. We were just chuckling about how some of us feel like we're born on third base. Or, yeah. Or at least raised to be there. But it's hard. Being a dad is hard. I have a busy, demanding job and then we have filmmaking additionally to that. And then your phone is always trying to suck so much of your attention. It's a battle. And so time is important. Time matters. But yeah, intentionality doesn't mean you have to spend every minute with the kids. Yeah. Because it's just not gonna happen. Dads mostly have a job and other things they have to do, but intentionality means that you're making some decisions and you're sitting down thinking like, where do I want my family to go? What do I want my kids to be thinking about learning about? And you don't just. Flick the TV on and watch what comes up. You don't just pick the closest book or do whatever random activity. You have to discipline yourself and take some effort. And that's hard. It is hard, but the results are massive. And I just, feel so much better about my life and myself when I am being diligent that way. And I see the difference in my home when I'm not just like scrolling on my phone, but saying okay, family, what are we gonna do? And leading that way. And my wife loves it, and the kids love it. And it's transformational. It's something I'm gonna have to keep on working to do every day.'cause it doesn't happen just on its own in the age of ai, I have become more and more. Thinking along the lines that the things that matter take effort. And so although you might get chat GPT to write something cool or these image generators are getting really good, if all it takes is a quick little prompt, two seconds, whatever. How great you may think what has been written by the. Doesn't actually have that much value because it didn't require effort. And it's just such a powerful thing to keep in mind you can spend effort, and it could be wasted, but there seems to be this ratio of like, you put intention into something, you put effort into something and the results are there. And if you don't put any effort in. There's rarely any gold that gets dug up by sitting on the beach is the people who in the mines working. And so we don't like our time in the mines. We enjoy the time on the beach more, but the reward at the end of the day is so different. Yeah. And so I try and remind myself of that, like the good things take effort and so I don't actually look for a cheat often of like, oh, how's the easiest way I can be a parent today? Yeah. It's okay. It might actually be, what's the hardest thing I can do as a parent today? I don't always do it. I'm not saying I'm a great dad, but when I am a good dad, that's why it's'cause it's, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna have to do the hard thing and the results come from that.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh man. You're young to have all these amazing insights, there's two thoughts that came to me as you said that one you were talking about just the idea of. Being fulfilled when you work like this and when you are intentional like this. Earlier today I watched this thing about these people that gave this ongoing service for over seven years to this lady that had multiple sclerosis. And at the end of this little clip, it says. Basically quoted the idea of like, when you lose yourself, you find yourself. And the idea was when you're giving service in that way and you're being intentional in the way that you're describing Mercer that you find yourself more easily because there's so much more of you to find. And if we think that we can cheat the process of becoming, yeah. Then we're fooling ourselves because you can't, could you imagine a young figure skater or basketball player or musician. Saying they somehow cheated the process to be an accomplished musician or athlete or skater, that it's just, it doesn't happen. You have to put it in and it's more fulfilling, like you said.

Mercer Lawrenson:

That's, That's insightful. Tim. It reminds me, I think I'm gonna butcher this Margaret Thatcher quote, but she had this quote where she was like. Who is happiest at the end of the day? Is it the person who, just enjoyed themselves and spent the day in leisure? No. It's the person who worked hard, had a good full day's work to do and they did it, yeah. And she said it better than that, but the just is there of yeah. When you have a big task to do and you do it, there's nothing that matches that feeling. And no amount of being lazy can match that.

Timmy Eaton:

So I wanted to ask you some things that's such a good, contextual framing there of just becoming a homeschool father my course is called. PhD, which is proactive homeschool dad. And so I thought you can get your PhD by becoming a proactive homeschool dad. And and I talk about six different characters or identities or roles that you play and take on to fulfill that with intentionality like you're talking about. So I just wanted to maybe play a few things by you and see how you would respond. When it comes to being on the same page with your spouse,'cause I found early that was something that was so important. What are you and Rochelle doing to make sure that you're on the same page regarding. Your main purpose for homeschooling, because you guys have a head start having been homeschooled and having that exposure, but still you're unique individuals and so what do you do to make sure you're on the same page and you're not gonna face this for a while, but when it comes to technology, when it comes to school sports, if that's something that'll come up in your family when it comes to any aspect of home education and lifestyle. How do you make sure that you and Rochelle are on the same page that your companions through all this?

Mercer Lawrenson:

That's such a good question. And it's right down to like, how do you live, in your marriage, how do you get on the same page and. I think the biggest thing is talking, my wife and I chuckle about how we feel like we had advantages being married because we both like to talk and so we end up communicating a lot without having to try super hard. We talk about things, my wife likes to ask questions. I feel very confident about homeschooling. I've read a bunch of books and she's oh wow. You guys might have some high expectations. No, my expectations aren't as high as you think. But we have read some books together. We listened to some podcasts together. There's some great resources, similar to probably what your podcast is and some of the courses you've done and there's lots of things out there. And when you listen to other people's ideas together as a couple, that really helps draw out maybe some of your own assumptions and expectations that you can't articulate very well. Just on your own

Timmy Eaton:

Oh,

Mercer Lawrenson:

what do I expect home is going to look like? Not everybody has an answer, but then you start reading somebody else's view on it. Then you're like, oh, I like this. I don't like that. So talking is such an important thing. Yeah, we haven't talked about sports or whatever, but technology, we're already talking about it because even at, yes, four years old, two years old, the kids are drawn to the screens. If we're on the computer, they wanna watch and you notice how much that has an impact on them we don't let them touch any screens ever. They never get to hold the phones. And that's going to continue to be the case for probably a lot longer than most families. We're not gonna do that. And we don't let them use the computer. We do show them a video once in a while. We don't have a TV in our home. We have a giant computer screen though, for editing. Yeah. So it's what's the difference? And then that's always a conversation, which is okay, my wife kept the kids off the computer all day, but then I maybe put a YouTube video on.'cause they're like, can we watch a lion video? Or something like, yeah, sure. But then it's okay. I probably should actually be better aligned having a conversation about this before we just give in the moment.'cause it's the screens are so powerful and addicting for kids that once they see it, they want it again and again. And it's not necessarily bad. In moderate doses, but it can be hard to resist it growing because they want to grow and it's so easy as a parent, the screen is the most powerful and easiest babysitter.'cause you can just flick it on. The kids are mesmerized, but it's so destructive. The iPad. Kids are just locked in and knew a kid one time who I think his first words were like, iPad time. iPad time. Yeah. I was a teenager, and I just, I was hard to watch that. It's just not great. Yeah, I really think that childhood is not, to be spent on screen. So that's one of our, kind of our principles and thoughts. And we're talking about already and people should think and talk about those sorts of questions. Maybe technology isn't a debate in your house, or a fight, but for most people, I bet technology, how you spend your time, how you relate to your kids big conversations and talking about it is the only way I think. But then, yeah, using a book or some of the resource to prompt that, wow, that's been helpful for me and my wife.

Timmy Eaton:

Excellent. And there will be tons of aspects. And that's why one of the things I do with families is help them establish a purpose document and a purpose statement. Oh yeah. So that way they can weigh everything with that and they can say, does this align with that? And if a purpose document you say, man, this doesn't really align with our values and our priorities. And so it helps you clearly what to say yes to and what to say no to. And so I just I think you guys have a really. Big headstart with your background one, and if you're already having those conversations, Mercer, I think you are starting off really good. But that was a struggle for me because both my wife and I were public schooled. I in the suburbs of Chicago and she in the suburbs of Edmonton. So it's been a learning experience and because she was the principal home educator, she was learning all this stuff and I would just be like, oh, this is cool, but. What about this? And it took longer for me to deschool and to really catch on. And so I want to help fast track some younger homeschool dads or newer homeschool dads so they can skip some of the problems that I brought into our family. Yeah. Frankly. And so when

Mercer Lawrenson:

you when you are doing like a purpose document, families, do you find that couples tend to be in alignment? Or is there a lot of discovery of oh, I didn't know. My wife had this as a priority, or I didn't know this was part of my husband's maybe purpose for the family.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah.

Mercer Lawrenson:

What extent do you think couples are often in alignment? Before they have a, this conversation, I imagine they're much more in alignment afterwards.

Timmy Eaton:

Oh, I, yeah, definitely. I, and I haven't had a large enough sample to probably give you a really good answer to that, but my experience is in just informal discussions, just a few times doing it really formally with people, but is, it depends on their background. With you and Rochelle, my anticipation would be that you guys would be probably more aligned than most because of your background. But when you have two people that have come from different families. They weren't homeschooled. That's when it takes quite a bit of more work to say, okay what is our purpose? A lot of times people have either a faith that ties them together or just some kind of interest that really ties them together. So their main statement might be. The Lawrence and family is all about getting outside every single day no matter what, and then everything else branches off that. And then they have a few other purpose statements or value statements. And so it depends. But I would say. Those that come from a similar faith background, and those who come from a homeschool background philosophically are definitely way more aligned. This couple married each other and they obviously have something in common there. I find that everybody has some aligning to do. Because it takes some intentional, deliberate work to say, this is what we're all about. And the other thing is, I always encourage families is that be flexible because those things might change over time. They might evolve or they might mature or they might like totally change. And so that should be a living document that is not set in stone, but that it definitely matches what your values are together as a family. And that way you stick to that again, so you can know what do I. Say yes to what do I say no to? And that's been really effective. I think the foundation of this really is just having regular discussions. One thing I emphasize a lot is listening, and especially for husbands if the mom, which is about 95% is the principal home educator then dads should do probably quite a bit of listening instead of trying to fix things all the time. Unless that's clearly what your spouse wants because she has so much insight into what's going on. So it sounds like you guys are already onto that, but you're young in your family, but do you feel like you know what your wife needs as far as how to attend to self care and how you can help her fill her bucket and vice versa too. But her as the principal homeschool parent, and as you have more children, even though it's so enjoyable and it's the way you guys want to live, it still is hard work, right? It's taxing, like you said anything worth putting in effort, you know, requires some effort. And so, how are you doing it now? To help make sure that Rochelle fills her bucket and that she feels replenished and fresh each day

Mercer Lawrenson:

Rochelle she's motivated and she's pretty industrious, so often in our relationship, I'm trying to tell her like, Hey honey, you probably should take one thing off your plate here. Whatever this is, right? And so we love gardening. We love doing the canning. She loves sewing and then we're doing filmmaking, raising the kids and everything. But during certain seasons, I'll just be like. Dear you probably gotta put this to the side actually. Or let me take on some of this task so you can just have a manageable amount of things on your plate. She's amazing and she gets so much done, which is such a blessing to me and our family. The other part of it is she needs her rest and needs her sleep. Over four years we've had three kids. Wow. And we hope to have more. And so it's a lot of kids in a condensed amount of time. And so she likes her sleep and her rest, sometimes she needs a nap in the afternoon and eventually we'll start to have more problems with this.'cause all of our kids still nap. Yes, but that's important is set up nap time and then that's her time. She can decide what to do with, does she take a nap while the kids are napping or do does she wanna do something else where she can rest or take care of herself somehow or sleep a little bit more in the morning. I try and if the kids get up early, I try not have her get up of late. She's been getting up earlier and been feeling well rested. But that I think is so important. I think the science would tell you that women need a little more sleep on average than men, and particularly when you're pregnant or breastfeeding, getting woken up more at night. That sleep is important to just be in a really strong place to face the challenges of the day to be well rested. So that's one of the things. And I like to encourage her different paths She wants to go down so she's more into health and other things than I am. And so I tease her about it sometimes, but then it's always yeah, honey, we're gonna set aside the money you need to buy. These supplements or we switched to grinding our own flour this year. So that's more expensive actually than buying flour at the store. The wheat's more expensive, you gotta buy a grind or whatever. But that was something she cared about and is meaningful. And I think I see the health. Impacts. I listened to podcasts. This person was talking about how great it was to, b grind your own flour and bake your bread, and they had a whole scientific list. They said, we never got sick once we started making your own fresh ground bread. I was like, oh, come on. That's crazy. Since we've done it consistently now for the last several months, we haven't gotten sick, so I don't know till we do. I'm starting to get persuaded. So I think sometimes homeschool moms can lose their own. Identity. Identity, and they just become the manage the kids teacher, manage the home, keep it clean, keep everybody fed person and that's okay if at times that has to be. All of us have to sacrifice at times and dads have to sacrifice. Moms have to sacrifice. But I think it's really powerful to still have a purpose. The fact Rochelle and I work together on the films gives us something that we do together. Yeah. That is just for us. And it's creative. It's entrepreneurial and it is also ministry. And that sort of having multiple pieces to it where lots of women believe that their purpose is to be a wife and mother and I support that. But I think it's really helpful to have something in addition to that where you're able to contribute beyond that. And to some extent when you have more purpose, you have a lot more energy that gives you more, fire to keep going even when things are challenging. That's how I view that.

Timmy Eaton:

And as husbands, I think our job isn't to dictate what that is, but it is to learn what that is from them. Yeah. And then help them attend to that and support that. Yeah.

Mercer Lawrenson:

Yeah. Support them and what their purpose is and what gives them that extra energy. And then create time. I take the kids after supper often to give Rochelle time to edit or do something like that. And that's great. I enjoy the time with the kids. And then she gets that time where she can do what is, on her heart to, to create. Yeah.

Timmy Eaton:

Now, your kids are young, four and younger, but how do you see your role as far as participating we know as homeschoolers that everything we do is learning. We don't wanna try to compartmentalize it. Yeah. But when you are doing some kind of book stuff or like hands-on stuff, like where will you come in? Where would be your areas of expertise? Where I call them win-win. For example when it comes to subject matter, if you're definitely more of a math mind, maybe you help the kids with math and at some point the research shows that kids are so self-directed that their parents are just helping here and there. But when it comes to subject matter, where do you see yourself helping or other aspects, whether it be athletics, music hands-on things work around the house. Where will be your role of x? Batiste to share with the kids and then like, where's that division of labor between you and Rochelle at least? What do you imagine that to be?

Mercer Lawrenson:

Yeah it's more imagining it maybe than. Knowing for sure. But I know Rochelle's already started on the writing and book work with our son a bit, and I haven't, right. So that already indicates to me kind of how it's gonna go, but I read to the kids at night and I think some of that. And it mirrors a bit of what my family did. Yeah. I'll probably be involved in a lot of hands-on. Like teaching tasks. My son and daughter love being around when I'm doing stuff and so ready to bring them along. On Wednesday we were fixing the dryer and so my son wanted to be in there and so he was holding the light and holding some tools for me and just showing him what we're doing and teaching involving him. They just love that at that age they're so happy to do it. And so being involved hands on, but then also teaching. The thinking and the literature and some scripture I think would definitely be things that would fall into my plate. I'm not necessarily, I wouldn't call myself a math expert, so we'll see how that goes, but I can do a little bit of that. I like computer stuff and spreadsheets and this sort of thing. I like discussing and thinking Id through ideas. And so I imagine there'll be a lot of conversations with the kids and thinking and logic work that will end up where I'd be doing it. And I imagine my wife will be teaching more okay, here's how to read, here's how to spell. Yeah, this might be a tiny bit more patient. In the younger years on those. Little things and be able to have a little more time to dedicate diligently to it during those, those work hours. But I hope to be as much as we can very partnered as a couple in it. And you know, I, I love my work, but then at other times, I wish like, I wish I didn't have to work at all so I could just work with these kids all the time. Yes. And so some of what I am drawn towards the lifestyle my family ended up having where my dad. By starting a business that was based in the farm, we ended up all being together almost all the time.

Timmy Eaton:

Wow.

Mercer Lawrenson:

And so that's something that, if that can happen one day for my family, I think would be amazing. But it's a work in progress but we work towards it. We keep that in mind. And we don't maybe make some choices that will handicap our ability to potentially do that in the future.

Timmy Eaton:

Excellent. I'm just thinking because a lot of that is in the future for you. But like I've always said okay, we're starting to homeschool because my child's four or whatever, but the reality is they've been exposed from the womb to a certain feeling and music and a environment of the home. And so really it's from the very beginning that we start this, I don't even like to use the word homeschool, but basically creating the intentional home that we're trying to create in that environment. So can you tell us a little bit like you both came from homeschool families what did you notice as like similarities between your families and what were some differences that might needed some communication and some things to work through maybe.

Mercer Lawrenson:

My family was very loud and talkative. And so my wife initially coming to the family dinner table at my parents' house was like, whoa, you guys are crazy. And now she's just oh yeah, I've gotten used to it. I'm right in there with you all. Yeah. And and her family dinner table was more like, one person would speak at a time and you'd kind of listen to them and then lots of the younger kids would just they wouldn't talk as much. They'd wait their turn. And does she have a big family

Timmy Eaton:

too?

Mercer Lawrenson:

She has a bigger family. My wife has 13 siblings. There's 14 of them, so very big biggest family that I'm familiar with. She's the oldest Of that clan. You're both the oldest of your families? Both the oldest, yeah. So you're the oldest. You're the

Timmy Eaton:

oldest of eight, and she's the oldest of 14.

Mercer Lawrenson:

14, yeah. Wow. My wife even thought ah,'cause there's this birth order book that's written about like how the different birth orders interact, or she was a little worried before we got married, like, how is this gonna work? It's worked out fine and I think the birth order is strongest when there's two or three kids. And once you have a bigger family and it breaks down a little bit and edges are maybe worn off by the siblings before you get to marriage. But and my family was a, maybe when it came to homeschooling a bit more eclectic. A bit more like your Charlotte Mason classical bent with a bit of unschooling farming thrown in there, right? Yes. You do your school first half of the day, and then a lot of book school and then a lot of hands-on stuff. The rest of the time and a lot of free time. My family really believed in, in giving kids free time to roam and I started businesses and did all kinds of things with that and my wife's family gave them dead kids lots of free time too. And. But was more, a little more structured in like proper curriculum and that sort of thing in their official kind of quote unquote homeschooling time. And I've noticed how both our families have artistic people in them and creative people and such, but in my wife's family, they're drawers and they draw very well. And they make beautiful little videos and take very nice photos and that sort of thing they're a little more laid back but more artistic and refined that way. And my family's a little more aggressive. Get her done. Yeah. Build the thing, fix the mechanics side of life. And both are great. So I'm hoping we can embrace both in our family and see how that goes.

Timmy Eaton:

And do your families live fairly close to each other?

Mercer Lawrenson:

They're about an hour and 15 minutes apart, so it's a little bit of a drive. It's. It's, but it's doable. It's doable. Yeah. That's nice.

Timmy Eaton:

That's really cool. A lot of cousins and, people to get to, yeah. Aunts, so

Mercer Lawrenson:

many aunts and uncles and so much, there's so much dynamism going back to our family's places.'cause we have so many younger siblings and we're not that old yet. Many still live at home. Yes. And so there's always so many stories. New things have been built and learned and discovered every time we visit our families. And so That's so interesting. And I can't even imagine what it's gonna be like in 10 years. Yeah. Because people have grown older and there's more kids and new spouses brought in. Yeah. Overall, just so thrilled to be part of the broader homeschool community. I know. I see so many wonderful things happening and the young people are for the most part, doing really well and the marriages seem healthy and they're having kids and they're loving them and parenting them. I'm excited to see where it's gonna go. It's not that the future is secure. There is a lot of work that has to be done to keep things going well. And we can't just take our foot off the gas, but there's some momentum and culture that's so positive and I'm excited how the influences, I think, are gonna encourage people towards. What's best, and I'm thrilled with that in our families and in so many more people we know in the homeschool and Christian communities, is, it's so wonderful.

Timmy Eaton:

One thing I was interested in, because like how old are you?

Mercer Lawrenson:

I am 27.

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. So you're still quite young and so it's not that far from your memory. Cause you did it all the way through and that's what we've done. We've got six children and we've seen three go through the whole homeschool thing without going to school, ever and not getting a diploma. And they're doing fine and they're doing well. But when homeschool parents approach that, the unknown is quite scary and I understand that. And that's why this podcast and others, and, yeah. Literature and stuff like that is so helpful to newer homeschool families, especially as homeschool continues to grow exponentially compared to other forms of education in Canada and US at least. So my question to you is, when you were approaching that, I dunno if you remember exactly, but like when you were in junior high especially you as the oldest and Rochelle is the oldest staring down the high school years. How did they become confident to say, okay, we're gonna do this, and then what was it like for you when you were approaching decisions about what to study and what to really go deep on and then were you calling universities and colleges or were you looking into the trades? Like what was your route and how did you go about it? And then what were your feelings about all that? Were you scared? Anyway, that's a lot, but I think, you know what I'm asking.

Mercer Lawrenson:

Overall, and like what we did for high school, my family would get more formal for sure when it could come to high school education. And so Manitoba has a certain number of credits you have to do each year, a certain number total to graduate high school. And some of those credits are flexible and some of'em are fixed. So you have to do four maths, four sciences, et cetera, to graduate high school. And and that's only

Timmy Eaton:

if you want to graduate high school or that's mandatory from by the province? I think

Mercer Lawrenson:

to graduate, you have to be in school until you've graduated high school or you've turned like 18, I think. According to the law. So I don't know where the exact lines are for what you have to do. I'm saying

Timmy Eaton:

you didn't have to get a diploma if you didn't choose that route. Correct.

Mercer Lawrenson:

In Manitoba, the parents issue the diploma, like the homeschool issues, the diploma. Gotcha. But the one requirement that Manitoba government has is you submit that you're doing the required equivalent education. And so we make sure we do a math. For grade 9, 10, 11, 12, and then science, et cetera, right? Language arts, the required ones. And then my parents attacked on a couple other things. Okay, we want you to learn this and this. And then, okay, here's a few other credits. Do what direction you wanna go with this? And I don't know what I all did. I know one was mechanics and then one ended up kind of more business and other things that I wanted to do. I figured out what I was gonna do and set some of my own kind of. Course or curriculum there. I guess I wasn't very intimidated. I was always a kind of, a bit of a confident kid. Wasn't maybe always the easiest kid but was confident and so I felt like I could figure things out and I would be fine in, in the world. I never. Was sure what I would wanna do or which direction I want to go with university. And so I never did, I never was that interested. I did a lot of studying of things throughout high school, education philosophy, and then learned marketing and learned filming and other things. Got very involved in the homeschool community was actually part of organizing the homeschool conference in Manitoba for a number of years during high school and did all that, but never had something click where I wanted to do a university direction. And so I stayed farming with my family after graduating high school and did a few other things and then ended up getting a job that I've actually stayed at for seven years and done a number of different roles at that company. So that's been my. Direction. And I guess I was always confident I could persuade people, even if they were like, we are homeschooled. Let's, I was confident. I was like I can figure things out and I'll go where I need to go. So yeah, that was the high school trajectory and some things were challenging. In high school I wasn't the best at math. And so when it came to calculus and this sort of thing, it was. Tough sledding and some other things. I felt like I did well at and learned a lot in. But I left high school or the completion of kind of my parents' side of education with a lot of ability of I can figure things out and I can learn what I need to learn. And so I've continued to keep growing in that because there's a lot to learn with so many things going on, being a dad a husband. Working in business. Yeah. And then filmmaking and such. There's a fast changing world and a lot to understand, and I've done many different jobs, even being at a same company for a long time, that's kinda the high school story. Yeah. From my perspective, if that paints a picture. No, I,

Timmy Eaton:

that really does. And I wonder as you were talking I'm sitting here wondering because, I went through a very quintessential public education system, which I would say in some ways served me well as far as I was a good fit because I was one of these guys that wanted to be told what to do and whatever. And so it fit me. I don't think that's the ideal for anybody personally, but it did serve me in that sense. But I wonder if you even know. Because you didn't do that how much, you just didn't think like the way that they conditioned you to think. You didn't have to really deschool in that sense. And so a lot of us go through the system and even our parents and we go, man, I have to do this so that I get a degree, and these things that we think about. But you said that the two things that I think really what employers and universities, wanna see and that's, does this person know how to learn and do they love to learn? Because if you have those two things, then like you said, nothing's that intimidating. And yeah if you're not into math, then you're fine. You're not gonna choose engineering, that's fine. But who cares? Like tons of people don't choose that. And so why not have the confidence to pursue things that are up your alley as far as interest. And you didn't really have this feeling like, oh, I have to go to university, and more and more people are seeing that in fact, they're even saying, why would I spend that much money when the degree isn't what's going to land me the job in the trajectory that I'm heading towards? Yeah. Especially if you're doing business or like you're doing like a with documentaries

Mercer Lawrenson:

yeah. You really have to be sure that the payoff is there for university. There's a lot of benefits to it and I work with people who've graduated university and like engineering and business folks and accounting folks all the time in my work. And they're smart and they know what they're doing well, but you wanna know, you wanna be locked in on that for a while because the costs of university are very high and for my wife and I, we were able to launch into marriage and life and have her stay home right away with the kids and everything without it being too much of a pressure, largely because we avoided all kinds of debt and costs associated with that. Yes. We weren't making a lot of money to start out, but we didn't have that many costs. And so you wanna know that the trade offs are there, that you're like, if I'm gonna go and get that degree and that cost of university, you wanna know you're gonna stick with that field for a while and make the payback Yeah. Because you're losing out years of potential earnings plus the cost uh, going to school. So if you want to and you do it I think it's great. When I was in high school, I've been more skeptical of university and ah, that's not, I don't think university. Great idea. It's gonna turn you into somebody crazy. But now over time, meeting more and more people who've got that and they're like, yeah, if you want to work in a certain field, it can be really helpful.'cause it really focuses, structures your thinking, gives you a lot of training there. Not that you can't obtain that other ways, but it isn't bad, but it really needs to be the right fit and people shouldn't do it by default. And I never saw like a clear field that. I wanted to go into that had a degree requirement and I was just like, yeah, I'm gonna be able to figure out what I can need to figure out. And I still feel that way. I've realized, okay, yeah, engineering would be a lot harder for me than some other things are for me. I work with the engineers, I keep up with them, but they're good at their certain things. Totally. There's some expertise

Timmy Eaton:

there. Yeah.

Mercer Lawrenson:

But I feel like I can figure stuff out and if I needed to figure whatever else out, I could switch fields and get there. Because yeah the life of homeschooling always had this instinct in me of like, I can learn, wanting to learn, and there's no barriers, right? There's nobody telling you you can't go to the bathroom right now, or you gotta wait to learn this thing. When you're home educated, especially if it's a very relaxed home education you're never slowed down right by anyone other than yourself. And that gives you this attitude of I'm the only barrier to my own success in learning. And I think I've carried that in life as yeah, if there's a problem, it's probably me, and if I can figure that out, then I can achieve whatever needs to be achieved. Wow. I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if I'm too confident, a little too cocky and sometimes I make some mistakes and humble myself and Yeah. But there's a lot of people out there in the world waiting to be told that they're given permission. But nobody's waiting to give you permission. You gotta go take it. And it really holds you back to believe you need permission to succeed or to live life or to try something, right?

Timmy Eaton:

Yeah. Go get what you want. And I would say that it's taken me a long time to learn that. The last question I wanted to ask you, and you have a unique perspective, again, because you are a second generation homeschooler and then you're gonna be homeschooling your own kids. What would you tell newer families? When they are looking at the option of homeschooling but they're intimidated and they're scared by it, they didn't come from a homeschool background. What's your advice to newer families who are choosing that route?

Mercer Lawrenson:

Oh, I don't know. I'll say what comes to my mind and people can decide whether it's good. Yeah. No, that's, I think that's the

Timmy Eaton:

best way to do it.

Mercer Lawrenson:

Fundamentally, I think you need to lose the assumption that what the public school is teaching is actually that special, they're cranking out a very standardized, low level. It's kind of lowest common denominator education and, smart kids can learn that stuff on their own in a short amount of time. Actually. Lot shorter now. Sometimes. And you've got time, right? There's no rush. There's no such thing as actually falling behind because at the right moment the kids can cover leaps and bounds. The only reason the public schools have to have your kids for all those grades, for all those hours is'cause they have to move every kid along at the same pace. And essentially you're slowed down to the slower half or the more disruptive half. So let that go because it's the educational side of things is easy to do. And then fundamentally, everything comes down to your home and family's culture. The spirit in your home, the relationships in your home is gonna make or break everything. Yeah. Kids succeed and fail in every educational environment. And that is not really to do with the educational environment. Fundamentally, it's to do with. How are mom and dad relating to each other, and how do they relate to the kids? I would even suggest if you don't think you have that figured out, just put education on the back burner for as long as you need to figure those relationships out, and you're gonna be set. Because strong relationships will carry the education and the kids love to learn. They actually wanna learn. Yes, they wanna succeed. And they'll figure it out, in a supportive, loving home nothing can stop'em in that situation.

Timmy Eaton:

That is so good. So good. I love that answer. But thank you for taking time and for such great counsel and maybe we'll have a second segment of that.'cause that just flowed very naturally. That was a quick hour, man,

Mercer Lawrenson:

yeah. Thank you so much, Tim. This is great.

Timmy Eaton:

That wraps up another edition of this Golden Hour podcast. If you haven't done so already, I would totally appreciate it if you would take a minute and give us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. It helps out a lot, and if you've done that already, thank you much. Please consider sharing this show with friends and family members that you think would get something out of it. And thank you for listening and for your support. I'm your host, Tim Eaton. Until next time, remember to cherish this golden hour with your children and family.