Creating Jungle Sanctuaries with Shelby Clark

 In this episode of Queerly Beloved, I’m joined by the multi-faceted Shelby Clark, a visionary entrepreneur, investor, embodiment facilitator, and founder of The Jungle Gayborhood, an LGBTQ+ focused retreat located center in the beautiful jungles of Costa Rica. You may remember me talking about the Gayborhood in my episode Healing the Father wound where I share about my magical time there attending a conscious kink retreat. Now you get to hear about it from the founder and director himself. 

In this interview we get to hear the story of how Shelby went from being a tech entrepreneur and founder of the groundbreaking billion-dollar car-sharing company Turo, to founding a queer retreat center in the jungle. And all the twists and turns on the way. 

Shelby vulnerably shares how, as a queer kid, he struggled to fully accept himself and found refuge in overachievement. Together, we unpack this familiar queer narrative of overcompensating to mask internalized shame, and explore how so many queer people, link their identity to achievement and people-pleasing, often at the cost of their own authentic selves.

We then learn about all the influences for the Gayborhood including Esalen, Burning Man and radical fairy sanctuaries and then We explore why dedicated queer spaces like The Jungle Gayborhood offer uniquely medicine and create environments where radical authenticity can flourish free from societal expectations or limitations.

Together, we unpack the transformative potential of psychedelics for queer healing, and I share some personal stories about my journey with that then Shelby shares insights from groundbreaking research recently facilitated at the Gayborhood. Enjoy this convo covering hese topics and many more!

Check out the Jungle Gayborhood here-

https://junglegayborhood.com/

Use code: 'awakenedhearts100' for listeners $100 off any retreat. 😘

Check out my upcoming retreat in Joshua Tree-

https://www.wil-fullyliving.com/events

Transcript

Wil Fisher  0:05  
Hello, Shelby. Welcome to queerly Beloved. So good to see you. My friend. You as well. Nice to see you again. Missing you down here in the jungle. Yes, I'm missing the jungle. How is it there today? Is it rainy? Is it Sunny? What's going on there? Oh, it's pretty beautiful. This is the nicest time of year, so it's a it's a beautiful, sunny day. No complaints.

Yeah, it's so magical there. And I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity to be there and to meet you and to meet the other wonderful people who run the beautiful retreat center. And, yeah, it's just great to drop in and get to talk about some of my favorite things, being someone who used to run a queer retreat center myself, definitely these are topics that I'm excited to dive into. So let's do it before we dive into some of those topics, I want to start with the question I begin all my interviews with, which is, who are you in this moment, but tell me by describing the perfect drag avatar that embodies that, and if it's helpful, I can go first.

Shelby  1:09  
So this is a fun question.

So I have this like spirit animal that I think about, and so I sort of want to put this spirit animal in drag, yes, so I'm going to tell you about my spirit animal. So in a psychedelic journey a couple years ago, I remember asking like, what does my soul look like? And I got this vision as a response. It was pretty epic. So this vision was this. It was a a lion riding a white horse. But the lion, this lion, was a pretty badass line. So the lion was in this really, like interesting, sort of, like geometric armor. And had this, like this, sort of, again, things were sort of like Angular and geometric, but I had this, like incredible locks and beard. So maybe now this is like a fierce, long, curly, you know, slightly wavy, curly blonde wig and and then in the and then a really epic beard. So that, so wig and a beard, and then in one hand the lion had a torch. It was sort of like a statue of liberty torch, but instead of just a regular flame, it was like a rainbow disco ball, yes. And then in the other hand was a sword. And so what I sort of got out of this, and these are still some things that I'm continuing to to balance in life is, you know, I, I'm I, I, I love to play. You know, I love finding these aspects of of connection, of play. You know, throw in a pretty damn good, really queer party. And, you know, I think that sort of represented in in sort of the the rainbow disco ball, flame torture. And then on the other side is sort of the balance of that, you know, it's sort of, you know, trying to remember, to protect myself, to create boundaries, to, you know, to be creating the right agreements and relationships with people in my life, and to be judicious with what I'm saying yes to, you know, I think that I get very excitable. I tend to, I like to say yes. And so sometimes that can mean over committing to things, which can make it hard for me to follow through on commitments. And so, you know, I think that, like, I've got to find a way to balance the enthusiasm of the rainbow disco ball torch. So this is sort of my work that I'm doing. And so, you know, so putting this lion, this, you know, fierce lion, and in sort of a wig, and probably some amazing, amazing heels, what am I feeling? I'm feeling some, like, maybe some black, like thigh high boots, like other boots with with a serious heel. So, so imagining all that on a horse in in armor. So that's, that's how I'm feeling today.

Wil Fisher  4:12  
Oh my god, I love it so much. What an incredible vision that you got to have, and that experience. So much of this resonates. So first of all, I love spirit animals so much, and I just have this piece colored in, I don't know,

Shelby  4:26  
Wow, that's incredible. Thank you. Yeah, and the lioness

Wil Fisher  4:29  
looking good that you just thank you. The thing you just mentioned around the boundaries, the lionesses on the sides are there to create the boundaries so that the giraffe, which is one of my main spirit animals can lead with the open heart. And so yeah, lionesses, to me, are about the roar. It's about like having that roar, using your voice to make boundaries so that you can safely move with flow and with ease and with playfulness and with joy and with, yeah, that open heart, you know. So I love that so much, and it's funny. So I'm going to share my drag. Avatar for the day. And it's funny that you went with a spirit animal, because I, my boyfriend, had sent me this video of a raccoon. So one of my my spirit animals, and the first one that came through for me, also in a ceremony, was raccoon. And it was like I had never had an affiliation with raccoons. I didn't call that in but suddenly, in the ceremony, they were just like everywhere, like I couldn't get away from them. And then after that, it was like they were popping up in real life as well. And I started to learn more about the raccoon and about how they use masks for transformation, that they are an example of transformation through masks. I collect masks from around the world. I love drag. I love using drag as a transformative medicine. And then they also are all about, about, about the good of all. So they they go and they like steal from the rich and give to the poor. They bring to their whole little raccoon family. Anyways, I'd gotten this video of a raccoon today on Instagram, and he was wearing this little vest. And so as I was thinking about my drag avatar today, I was also like, oh, maybe mine's a raccoon. So yeah, today I'm a little raccoon. I got my little raccoon hands as I, you know, jump into this feeling kind of playful, and, yeah, excited to bring that energy today. So yeah, thanks for calling those in I am just so enamored with the space that you have created in Costa Rica. It was just so magical for me to get to have that experience, having a lot of experience in queer retreat spaces, right? I lived for years at Easton mountain, and I also have experienced retreat spaces in Costa Rica. And both of those things are very near and dear to my heart, but to have that combined was so special and unique for me, and so I'd love to hear the story of the jungle gayborhood and how you went from this I imagine you'd identify as like a tech entrepreneur. Is that correct? From being a tech entrepreneur to moving into this life where you are running this fabulous, magical, queer space in the jungle?

Shelby  7:15  
Sure, thanks for asking, and it was great to have you down. It's been really beautiful to sort of watch this space grow and evolve. But so I think my story is probably, you know, has, there's similarities with with many, you know, queer people. You know, I grew up in a, you know, a loving middle class household in suburban Denver, glamorous Aurora, Colorado. And, you know, as a little queer kid, I I didn't, couldn't fully accept myself or love myself as I was, and so what I did was I overachieved. So this is probably a, you know, I a similar story, a familiar story. So I was the valedictorian of my class. I was an all American swimmer. I got a, you know, a scholarship to to a good school for college. And, you know, I just sort of, I, when I put on this, you know, Avatar, as you've mentioned, in his mask, it, you know, I felt seen and loved and accepted. And, you know, I think the problem was that it was working, you know, is that, like as I was achieving, I was actually getting, you know, validation and, you know, and praise and love. And so I kept on this path. And so coming out of college, I got a, you know, I got a good job making a good salary, and then I sort of got to entrepreneurship bug. Ended up going to Harvard to get a fancy MBA. And while I was, while I was at Harvard, I ended up starting a company which has actually grown really big. So the company I started is, is now called Turo. It was the world's first and other world's largest peer to peer car sharing marketplace. So it's sort of like Airbnb for cars. So I started in 2008 you know, today, you know, the company's this last valuation. It was worth over a billion dollars. It'll do several billion dollars in revenue this year, and the majority of that money goes directly in people's pockets. You know, car sharing has a great impact on the environment. So there was, like, lots of things to be proud of in this, you know, like any entrepreneur dreams to start a billion dollar company, and, you know, and I did that, and, you know, but sort of before it hit the billion dollar phrase, I was pushed out of the company. The we raised capital from investors, and the investors decided to push now and bring in another CEO. And so sort of my whole world came crumbling down, you know, like I identified as this entrepreneur. This is who I was in the world. This is, you know, the story of myself. And so as I sort of lost that story, it was a really, really difficult experience for me. So my response was to start another company, and then that company failed, and then it was like, Well, shit. But I do now at this point, Turo is doing pretty well, so it's like, do I start a third company? If so, does this have to be more successful than Turo like, what does that even mean? Does it have to, like, be worth more money, or to have to have a deeper social impact? Act, and it's like, what is it actually enough? And so I just found myself in this, like wheel spinning. I spent the amount of time I spent trying to define my five year plan was comical. And, you know, I think it was because I continued to look outside for, you know, things that would validate me. And and so in a bit of a depression, I decided to do yoga teacher training. I just knew that, like when I moved my body, when I got out of my head and into my body, it felt better. And so I called my sister, and I was like, I've gone to yoga teacher training in Bali. Let's go do it. She's like, I don't want to be yoga teacher Shelby, you know, like, I don't. She was like, but you put it that way, let's go to Bali. Okay, so we hopped in a plane in January 2017, and arrived at yoga teacher training. And I think I was expecting to learn a bunch of yoga poses, and much to my surprise, I found spirituality. You know, I think that there was, like, all of these elements of yoga that really jumped out at me, that didn't expect meditation, Mantra, chanting, dance, you know, sort of all of these different things. And also some of the philosophy, so Eastern philosophy, and, you know, I just kind of learned all these things that, you know, a got me out of my head and into my body, and then really sort of adopting this, this eastern philosophy. And a lot of this is more about an inward look, where you know, you get to define, you know who you are and what's important to you, and if you're living in alignment with those values, it's less of like is somebody else thinking that I'm good. And so I learned all these things, and at the end of this yoga teacher training, I did my first soul cyber journey. And, you know, I sort of had an experience of, you know, the world melting away until I felt connected to everything, and sort of all of these practices and teach and teachings that I had learned in this training, sort of like popped into color. And, you know, sort of it this depression melted away. I felt inspired, I felt connected. I felt a sense of of love for myself and compassion and all these things that I was sort of like letting other people do, giving away to other people. I was able to give to myself. And it just changed everything for me. It changed the way they view the world. It changed the way they do it myself. And it was a phenomenal experience. Um, so then it was like, Well, what do I do with this? And I ended up sticking around in Bali for a couple of months to sort of integrate. And I just started taking, you know, trying to connect with people who are inspired, you know, what are they doing? What are they inspired by? And finding the things that I was inspired by. And I stopped trying to have a plan and being led by my mind, and I started to be guided by my passion, by what felt right in my body. And doing a lot of things didn't necessarily make sense, and made a couple connections of Bali that were really great. I connected with one of the world's leading bamboo architects, super inspired by her work, and just started volunteering a helper. And I met a yoga teacher on Grindr

Wil Fisher  13:04  
nice, who had this

Shelby  13:06  
vision of a building a beautiful yoga retreat in Costa Rica. And I was like, Well, I'm an entrepreneur. Maybe they can help you with that. And so I did. So I sort of joined the team to help, and lots of twists and turns, but basically, the that retreat center didn't end up launching, but in the meantime, we did find land and, and I got really enamored by this area and, and I ended up helping a person to build a psychedelic retreat center on this land where we are now. And as as that started to go, I was able to start to see the impact that this could have on people's lives, of getting people out of their daily lives, getting into their body, getting into community, and doing these really transformational practices. And, you know, I was just like, this is a yes, this is what I want to be doing, where I want to be living. And, you know, but then I realized, like, ah, I'd really love it as a little more queer. And so, you know. And for me, I think the the work that I was really doing was the work to, you know, I'm going to call it the to heal the trauma of growing up gay, you know, these parts of myself that I couldn't accept, that I actively hid for years, you know. And this is at this point, it's like, 20 years later, and it's like, I think I got my shit together now, right? Like, right, right. And, you know, but still, it was, you know, honestly, in these different practices of plant medicine, of yoga, meditation, like these are the things I was dealing with. And so my question was, do we need a separate space that is decidedly queer to do this work. And so we did sort of an experiment retreat at the retreat center next door, I helped to start called polos and, and we brought in a bunch of queer facilitators and, and, and did a queer retreat. And we got a big, hell yeah. We got a big, you know, this was very important. Important that the group and the container came together in a way that was really unique and special. It provided us an opportunity to to really address some of these issues, of, you know, the trauma of growing up queer, and to really move past them, you know, sort of get, get address the healing, but sort of moved into a, you know, a place of, of a power, you know, of inspiration and, and so, so, yeah, so, you know, we, after I got that download, we sort of moved down the hill from holos, and we built, you know, a decidedly queer retreat center of the jungle gayborhood, and we've been open for this is our third season. So super grateful for this place that we, you know, this, we get to welcome people into and super grateful the work we get to do here.

Wil Fisher  15:44  
Oh so good. What a fabulous story. Thank you so much for sharing all that. And yeah, so much of it resonates for me, and I think for so many queer men who do end up overcompensating for this piece of themselves that they feel like they need to hide or that they should feel ashamed of, right? And usually on an unconscious level, that we know that we have something that society has deemed bad or sinful. And so there are so many queer people who grow up as people pleasers, myself included, you know, overachieving people pleasers, and then we end up really connecting our identity to what we do to what we achieve. And that works when we're achieving a lot, and then it starts to hit us in the face when either we fail or we're not achieving as much as we feel like we need to in order to be worthy of love, or if we are achieving in a way that isn't aligned with who we are and our purpose in the world. And so I just love you sharing your personal journey and exploration of that and what magic came out of you really diving into that territory and going into the shadow spaces of it, and then coming out the other side with this beautiful vision. So yeah, thanks so much for sharing that. And I do think that there is such value in queer space. It's like what was coming to me was, you know, I have had incredible, profound experiences at just retreat centers like the one in Costa Rica. I've had incredible, profound experiences with plant medicine. I've had incredible experiences with queer spaces, like with specifically queer spaces, and it's like bringing those together. Each of those is their own unique medicine, in a way, and bringing them together is so powerful and so yeah, I'd love you to share more around your thoughts of, what is the value of queer space? What do you think it is that that helps queer people receive a certain medicine that they wouldn't if they were just going to any retreat center that wasn't necessary for us?

Shelby  17:57  
So I mean, I think that the dreaming gayborhood is sort of an amalgamation of, like, lots of my sort of favorite, you know, cultures and spaces and, you know, I think the it's, you know, we've got sort of the retreat center of Esalen. We've got sort of the like, you know, creative radical self expression of Burning Man, and the really decidedly queer space of, like, a radical fairies. It's sort of a mix of some of these big things. But for those who know, the radical fairies, this is sort of a counter culture queer movement started by a guy named Harry hay in the 60s. And he created a number of what he called sanctuaries. I think he just created a first one in a place called short mountain, Tennessee. And over the years, a number of these have sort of popped up around the world. And so, as you can imagine, in the 60s, in Tennessee, like there was, like, really places it was very unsafe to be queer. And so the idea of a sanctuary was, like it was a safe place. It was literally, like a place where you could, you know, you could go to avoid violence, or, you know, just being physically unsafe. And so this sort of became a, yeah, it was like a queer commune. People could come and, you know, as long as they're sort of, you know, contributing, they could stay as long as they wanted. And there were these, you know, regular gatherings where lots more people came in. And that's sort of how I got to know space. But this isn't just like, you know, it I think in queer culture, you know, if you know, if you think about, like, Modern Family, for example, you know, you have a queer couple, but they're, like, very heteronormative, right? Like, they live in, like, a very, like a middle class suburb, and they've got two kids. And, you know, it's very much a heteronormative lifestyle with just two men. This is not the radical fairies. The radical barriers is, like, we're going to burn it all down and we're going to build it how we want. And so, you know, this was queer people, sort of living their best lives, like farming, getting dirty, you know, pushing a wheelbarrow, a barrel with, you know, heels and a wig up a trail. The trail, by the way, is named Whitney Houston Memorial Parkway. It's like, and for these gatherings, people. Wil go and, you know, and there's parties, and there's drag, you know, people are really invited to go as themselves, you know, as sort of their best selves. It is, like, it's, you can use the word drag, but people, there's some people in full drag, but a lot of people are just like, you know, maybe got a wig or some sequence or, you know, just just showing up in a really unique way that embodies who you are. And I remember going to, the first time I went to short mountain, I think was 2014 and I remember going there and feeling like it was the place where I could be the most myself anyway, and that includes Burning Man, like I was, you know, I've gone to Burning Man several times. That was really a transformational experience for me. And, you know, but this place is, it was like, I could not wil be myself, but it could be super queer. It was, it's a sex positive space. And so it was like It invited your sexuality. There was no shame in this, you know, beautiful, you know, practice of passion and desire. And, you know, really feeling yourself in your body. And, you know, I think those elements I really loved. I felt like this was, you know, had the power for to be absolutely transformational, to really step into who you are with radical self acceptance, but also really leaving behind elements of shame, of our sexuality, of our sexual practices, and allowing ourselves to really claim those with authenticity, with power, with passion. And you know, what a beautiful, you know, what a beautiful world that could be.

Wil Fisher  21:27  
Yeah, I wasn't familiar with, I didn't know that you had that connection to the radical fairies. I'm a radical fairy. A lot of my listeners are radical fairies. And yet, going to the sanctuary in Tennessee, for me was an incredibly transformative moment, and for me, it was also in part, because of the distinction between that type of queer space and its celebration of radical self expression versus the homonormative paradigm that I was experiencing living in New York City, where there was a certain party, yeah, There was a certain way to be gay, like I was, yeah, I was going to Fire Island and I was, I didn't feel like I fit in there with my expression of gender and my queerness. And so to go from that where I felt like I had left one box, the heteronormative box, to move into a homonormative box, and I was like, but this doesn't really fit either. And to go and experience a gathering, a fairy gathering, for the first time, I was like, oh yeah, this is it. Because this is like, welcoming all of me, any parts of me. And it was just so freeing, like it just created such freedom. But it makes perfect sense to me that you were, you've been inspired by that as well. And for me, it's like it's also this, this piece around the default, you know? It's like we are moving through this default heteronormative world. Most of us are living in these default heteronormative societies where we have an awareness of our otherness, you know. And so when we step into these queer spaces like Easton mountain, the retreat center Iran, or the jungle gayborhood, we now have a new default of queerness where it's like, it's assumed that we're queer, and it's assumed that we can express ourselves in whatever way we want be, that wearing a dress, wearing leather chaps, or wearing nothing, or whatever it is, you know, whatever drag you choose could be a business suit for all I care. But it's like we get to play in that space in a different way, where we don't have the heaviness of the expectation to conform to how society is navigating this world. And that's so that is such about powerful medicine in itself,

Shelby  23:43  
absolutely, you know, I mean, I think this sort of gets to the very definition of queer, you know, like, what is like? What does queer mean? And, you know, I don't think that it necessarily just applies to sexuality or gender. It's sort of anything out of the norm, right? So, it's like, there's lots of ways that we are told to live our lives by society. And this is sort of inviting, like, what about you do? What works for you? It's like, you know, we can all define, you know, the values that we think are important, our priorities in life, and we can define if we're living in alignment with those things. And that's such an important like, reframe, you know, it's not like, Wil, this is doing society. I've got to accomplish this. I've got to live like this. I've got to have this car on this TV, and it's like, well, I don't actually care about do I actually care about these things? If so, then, like, Sure, go get them. But like, and this isn't what brings you joy. You know, authentically brings you joy in your life. Like, you know, can you recognize what that feels like in your body, right? Like, can you and can you find the tools and practices that actually bring you to this place of joy, of play, of celebration, and, like, create practices out of those. So, you know, the I just bridged a couple ideas there, but you know, the sort of going back to this concept of queer, and I think that, like really embracing that and lots of different aspects of life, feel. Wil, you know, it feels like some of the the real medicine we tried to bring down here. Yeah,

Wil Fisher  25:04  
I love that. And just to go back to what you were first mentioning with that theme again, of doing right, of achieving right, this, this default setting of we need to do and achieve, and that's who we are, right, this shift into to being, the shift into embodiment, right? And I think there's something queer about that too, where, rather than us being judged on the achievements and the measures of success, you know, with in a more a capitalist society, it's like, how can we be seen in our self expression and in our way of being. I feel like that's a queer lens in and of itself, which, which is something to keep leaning into.

Shelby  25:53  
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I definitely think there's a real opportunity to be revisiting what society is telling us to do. You know, this is, you know, this is decidedly queer. And I think as queer people, you know, we are invited to as we have to reimagine parts of our life because we're queer, I think that it sort of gives us the, the invitation to reinvent everything. And so, you know, I think as queer people, I think that that may even be, I don't wanna say, an advantage, but like, you know, it's for many of us. There was, like, a rough part of growing a queer and, you know, but sort of, we, we went through that hard part so that we can, sort of, you know, power through some of these other things. So, you know, by having, by learning some lessons early, that, like, actually, I don't need to do exactly what society told me to do. You know we have an opportunity to to find the things and, you know practices and you know aspects and relationships in our lives that really do bring

Wil Fisher  26:50  
us joy? Absolutely, yeah, and I do think it's an advantage. I mean, I mean, of course it can also come with a lot of trauma, but I think when we're able to take the opportunity and realize that we get to create the world that we desire. There's so much magic in that. So I love in your story, too, how you have that yoga experience. You're learning all these philosophies and receiving all this wisdom, and then you got to have that psilocybin experience that really helped integrate it and bring it into a more embodied experience. And so it made me think about the psychedelic offerings of the gate, the jungle, gayborhood and and this awareness that, yeah, I haven't experienced medicine work, plant medicine work in queer space yet. And I could imagine one of the benefits is that when we are in queer space, we are potentially having some healing and processing around our queerness and around some of these things that we're already talking about, and then to get to be with the wisdom of the plant medicines, it seems like that's a Really symbiotic experience. And I'm curious if you have observed that you know, witnessed queer folks having major healing around their specifically their queer trauma at the jungle neighborhood medicine retreats. Or if there's anything you'd like to share around that,

Shelby  28:21  
absolutely so first of all, the this is definitely something that's near and dear to my heart. And I will mention that this last summer, we actually hosted a research study to really look into this, and so we haven't published this yet, but it is, it is coming out soon, and but I think I could talk to some of the things that were seen. So first of all, I think it was really important to do the study. So because psychedelics, you know, they there's such an important they can. Research has shown that they can have a huge impact on a wide variety of mental health indications. Many people believe that there's some of the most powerful tools that we have to address the mental health crisis we're seeing sort of broadly in the world. And you know, but there's really been almost no research done in terms of how this relates to the queer experience the queer community. The real exception to this is was back in the 60s, whenever being queer was pathologized as a problem or like a disease and needed to be cured, and it was studied in terms of conversion therapy. So basically, psychedelics were being weaponized against queer people in really awful ways. It didn't work. You know, basically the opposite happens with psychedelics, like as you sort of really psychedelics help you see who you truly are, and that, you know, pushes, you know, does not convert anybody to anything. But you know, so after that, psychedelics went through sort of a major repression. In and and even research was was made illegal. And in the past, you know, decade or so, there's really been a resurgence, and but even with that, there's been really no formal research on the impact of the LPG community. And so I met a gentleman named Michael Lowe, who runs a research organization called limited unlimited sciences, and we decided it was time to turn that page. And so last summer, in July, we hosted a an Ayahuasca retreat where there was two ceremonies that were done, and we had around 20 people, sort of across the LGBTQ spectrum, and, and we took a look, and we did sort of a longitudinal studies book them beforehand. We looked at them during the retreat, immediately after the retreat, and then several points after the retreat as well. And, and what we noticed, so this is, you know, what will what will be revealed in the research, was three sort of main impacts. Number one was an overall improved mental health so impact on a reduction in depression and anxiety and improvement in well being, so quality of life and subjective ratings of happiness. So overall, people are just doing a little bit better. The next big thing that we saw was enhanced self acceptance and reduced shame, so increased self compassion and self esteem, body acceptance. And then, you know, a reduction in internalized homophobia, just some some really important things I'm gonna come back to this. And then the last thing was a greater sense of connection. So, you know, greater feelings of connectedness and reduction in loneliness. And so this last piece, I think, is, you know, really speaks to the testament of doing it in a queer, queer container, a queer community. And just, you know, such as people talked about it, this was one of the things that they spoke most about, was like being able to connect with community. You know, I think that in an age that we are very disconnected, this is so important, you know, to have these authentic connections and opportunity to do so. I want to briefly go back to the second one I talked about, in terms of, sort of, like, enhance self acceptance and reduce shame. This also feels like something that's like that is really fundamental to the queer community. And one of the reasons why it's so important, specifically for the queer community, is that, you know, studies have have, have shown that LGBTQ and queer individuals have increased levels of mental health concerns, so depression, anxiety and beyond. And if you really dig into this underlying a lot of this is often shame, you know, shame from this experience of having grown up in, you know, queer and a straight world. And you know, fortunately, these things are getting better as I think, you know, newer, younger generations are, you know, coming into a world that is much more accepting. But, you know, there's sort of a lot of work, a lot of research that has really shown the impact that shame can have on all these different aspects of life, particularly for the queer community. And then you know, to actually have research that shows that that Ayahuasca can be and it's a plant medicine, more broadly, can can be effective, specifically in shame, but also in sort of the broader context, I think is a really important learning for for the queer and LGBT community. And I also want to say there's a grain of salt, you know, I don't think that psychedelics are a panacea, and in fact, they're also not for everybody. There are risks that come with them, and so it's really important that people are making informed decisions. But we did really feel that actually doing this research and helping people understand what the impact could be if they are thinking, is this something that could help me? We wanted to have more objective facts and information for them to be reviewing. So really long answer your question. Obviously, I'm very passionate about this, so yeah,

Wil Fisher  34:00  
no, so fabulous. And I have experienced a lot of healing around my queer trauma through plant medicine in non queer space. So it is possible, but I also am aware that I am typically the only queer person in those circles when I go and experience plant medicine. And so I just get curious about like, well, what would it be like to be in a queer space and experiencing this medicine? So, yeah, I mean, you know a couple stories. One is, I remember in one ceremony, actually, it was in Costa Rica, not too far from you, but I suddenly realized that I had never cried about my story of losing all my friends and being bullied for being gay like, during that time I would, I would just numb out, and then I had never really allowed myself to cry about it. I didn't tell my parents about it, because I was, like, ashamed and and so I just, like, in the ceremony, in the middle of ceremony, I was like, what would happen if I gave. Myself permission to cry and like, it was almost like projectile vomiting, but it was like projectile sobbing, like, just suddenly I was like, and I had to, like, exit the space and, like, go outside and just sob and stuff. Is amazing. It was amazing, amazing. But sorry to laugh at your sobbing, but, like, it's a beautiful story. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was just like, the better, you know, grandmother was just like, Yep, there you go. Let's do this. You know, it was great. And then, you know, another story of healing I wil share it from your queer space came in the form of me asking, you know, what is some healing that I still haven't done yet. And I was hiking naked down to the waterfall and I heard this, oh my god, are you kidding me? Like, if I had gone to the gayborhood and just did that, that would have been worth all of it, you know, like just to be able to hike naked to a waterfall so epic. But in that hike, I had this, this this intuitive hit, of of me, this memory of my dad, like, not not being there when I hit a ball at baseball, like, or actually I got hit, but I made it to a first base, and it was, like, the first time I admitted to a baseball Yeah, and he wasn't there. He was like, in his car getting drunk, like, watching the listening to the Padres. And it was like, this moment of like, oh, he wasn't there because he knew how poorly I played. And this moment of like, Oh, my God, my dad, you know, like, didn't fully accept him and celebrate me because of my queerness. And then this father wound came up, and it was like, I don't think that memory would have surfaced if I wasn't in that queer space. And then, you know, I wasn't a plant medicine retreat. It was a conscious kink retreat, but I still was able to use the medicine of conscious kink to heal that wound, right? So it's like, there's, there's so many different medicines that we have access to, but I do think that there's a real power and magic alchemy that happens when we're doing work in the queer space. So actually, I think that's a good segue to to bring up the medicine of arrows, because I know that the gayborhood does a has a lot of offerings around that too. So what, what has made that one of the themes of the gayborhood? Why do you guys offer a lot of that stuff? Or what is the value?

Shelby  37:31  
So we brought the theme of this. We call that sacred sexuality. And you know, basically, I think this was just most of what's happened in the gay bird has been through experimentation. And sort of like trying things out, being willing, you know, to and being willing to make a mistake, as long as you know it's safe. We want to come out and experiment with other people, but like, you know, trying things out and and and seeing what works. And so a couple of years ago, I met a gentleman named Mark Paradis. He was their gas next Shaman. And I met him in California and did a workshop of his, and was just found or two really powerful. And so we started talking about having him down into the general gayborhood. And He came down in our first season in 2023 and brought the medicine of Eros, and it was a week long experience, and where he really sort of brought us through his practice. And, you know, I thought that, you know, maybe we would learn some techniques to, like, harness, you know, sexual power and like, maybe some breath work or like, and we did learn all those things. But what I didn't really expect was, you know, sort of like, you open the door to sexuality and everything comes flying out, right? It's like, you know, how what is my what is my my shadow, what is my power, you know, what are my past traumas? Like, you know, I think some people were expecting this to be a very sexy experience. Some people found it to just be like sort of weeping through trauma. And you know, but most of us came out the other side with having learned something about ourselves. And many of us that having killed some really powerful things. And so whenever we did the closing circle for medicine, the first medicine of arrows. Hearing the impact of people and the changes and transformation they described, I was blown away. I did not expect that. Again. I thought it was like, maybe we're gonna learn some tools that'll be great. I'm like, this is not going to, like, fundamentally, you know, have a real impact on people's lives. And it did. And so, you know, I think that, like, you know, what we've learned is by creating a safe space for people to I, you know, take a look at their relationship with sexuality, to understand where there is fear or shame or trauma, and be able to address that in a safe place. It can be absolutely transformational, and you can be. On that, you know, I think it's like, you know, it's important, you know, to remember that you can move through the healing into power. And often we see that and you know, so just we've seen this time and again be something that's just super powerful. It's not just like, you know, a dark room at a at a, you know, at a party, no shame to that, no judgment to that, but to step into that same thing without shame and fear, you know, is just so powerful. So I want to say one thing as well as I think that, like this sort of coming back to the question around queer spaces, is that I think that what we find is that creating spaces where people can be themselves and connect in community. You know, we talk about three things. We talk about, heal, connect and shine, you know. So it's like, can we create a space for somebody to identify the things that are holding them back? What are the stories that are longer serving me, you know? What are these things that need to be healed, to connect, you know, to create a moment to connect with yourself, to like, to put everything on pause and take a deep breath and be like, What do I need? How do I feel like, truly, to connect with queer people. You know, to like, move out of a transactional you know, many gay spaces can be extremely, sort of driven by sex, no shame, no like, I am not judging this in any way. And it's really great to have connections that that that that go beyond that as well, and also the connection with nature. And, you know, we live such like to be in just a place that's thriving, like the jungle on here is thriving. You feel it, the vibration to life in that you feel in your body there. This is where I live, you know. So this is my little house that has no walls. No one down here has any walls. There's these, you know, Canvas, sort of beautiful cabins. But like, there's no dolls, there's no war there, there's no walls, there's no doors, you know, you're protected by, you know, sort of these beautiful mosquito nets and these beautiful sort of Canvas cabins, but like, you can still feel the connection in nature and to be in a place that feels like it's thriving. You know, in today's world, it's important and and the last piece is to shine. So it's this is like, as you're able to move past the trauma, feel connected, as we invite people to find the practices that bring them alive, to like them, to play, to remember what it feels like to feel joy and to celebrate. You know, you can really show up and shine. And, you know, and this is contagious, you know, like, as you show up and you shine, like it's something that, like you invite others to do the same. And, you know, as we these are sort of the the the tools and frameworks that we lean into is, what are the things that we want to offer? Like, how do we create things? And so as we can infuse these same ingredients, we can do some lots of different things. You know, it's like, we've talked about our plant medicine retreats, and we've talked about our, you know, sacred sexuality retreats, but we also just throw fun parties sometimes, you know, we have a great sort of like festival retreat called Jungle fag and, you know, it's, it's four days, it's like a, you know, a celebration in the jungle, you know, we, we throw a couple really good parties, but there's also a lot of connection and intention. You know, there's yoga, there's a little, you know, and, you know, we just, it's an opportunity to come together as the queer community and, you know, but this year, when people came, and it was in January this year, it was, you know, sort of while the it was towards the tail end of the fires in LA and, you know, and it was right around the inauguration of Trump. And people were pride like they were feeling like, really tense and disconnected, and they didn't really realize it until they had an experience that wasn't done, until they had an experience of community and connection, where they were invited to play and they were invited to feel joy and and we saw, I mean, you know, people just weeping, you know, like playing and weeping and connecting in these ways that like, You know, they were, they were together. There was, sometimes they were sexy, sometimes they were playful, but creating these spaces that they were able to just be, that they will be themselves, you know, afterwards they were like, I didn't know how much I needed this and, and so, you know, I think it's, it's the creation of safe queer spaces wil can be themselves where, you know, they can be connected. It's incredibly important, and I think it's even more important today, particularly as you know the Trump administration is coming in, as there are attacks on LGBTQ, lives on, you know, on, on rights and protections. We need to still have places to come together to feel safe. And you know, I'm just so grateful that we get that we have a beautiful place here to invite people. And you know, I'm also thrilled to see, you know, more and more places, you know, like Eastern Mountain and other ones around the world that are also, you know, creating these spaces and and, you know, taking care of our community. Mm,

Wil Fisher  44:56  
yes, amen. Aho. I love all of. That, yes, these spaces are such blessings, and I'm so grateful for you for being a steward and creator of them. And, yeah, I feel like this is kind of a beautiful note to end on. But are there some upcoming things that you want to you want to shout out? I mean, I'm going to have the gayborhood website in the show notes, so people will be able to check that out. But anything in particular you want to, you want to share that you're, you're excited about, and we got

Shelby  45:27  
a whole lineup of things coming up, I'm pretty excited. So right now, it's the end of February, and, you know, we're open through August, and we closed down for the rainy season. And so we've got a ton of good stuff. You know, we've got, you know, regularly spaced plant medicine journeys, and we have them both for queer men and for queer women. And we find that having separate containers actually, like, allows to go a little bit deeper. So even sort of within the LGBT TQ IA umbrella, like having a little bit more specific containers, we've got a number of of sexuality retreats. We've got some yoga, yoga retreats, and there's one retreat for everybody. So if somebody wanted to come with their with their allies, or, you know, other family members, nice, there's some options. So I encourage you to go to the website at Jung Wil gabriel.com and click on the retreats tab, and you know, there's, we probably got a dozen retreats that are coming up with a broad variety of, you know, I think there's something for for everybody. So we try, you know, I'm hopeful this when we're there, buddy. So hope to see you down here. Come play in the jungle.

Wil Fisher  46:33  
Awesome. Yeah, and I can attest that it is a magical place. I mean, beyond just the the magic of the queer space, the actual land is just so special. Like, you found such a beautiful piece of land, but the waterfall right out of the Shala, and the beautiful construction, the, you know, I see your passion for bamboo structure in the the beautiful construction of all, all the pieces of the property, it's just, it's so, so special. So I yeah, I can't wait to get back there.

Shelby  47:03  
Yeah. So for those who haven't been down, so right now, I'm staring at Costa Rica's tallest waterfall just hangs in the distance, like it sort of feels, feels fake, like hanging off there. It's like, where are we? And then comes down and it forms the diamante river. And we have six major waterfalls on the property, so it's just a wonderland. You know, we're sort of in this Goldilocks zone that's like, really comfortable climate. It's not too hot, it's not too cold, and, you know, we're just super grateful. So, you know, Wil, it was great to have you down. I hope we have you back soon. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. And, yeah, we appreciate it

Wil Fisher  47:38  
such a pleasure.