The Rise, Fall, & Truth Behind Joycult, Founder Matt Breaks His Silence | S3 E146

On this week’s episode of the USAFBL Fingerboard Podcast, we sit down with Matt, the original founder of Joycult, for one of the most honest and in-depth conversations ever recorded about fingerboarding history.

We dive into Matt’s early life as a skateboarder, how Joycult started, why he chose to focus on wheels instead of decks, and how Joycult became one of the most influential brands of the 2010s. Matt opens up about the pressures of rapid growth, the impact of COVID on small brands, fulfillment challenges, online speculation, and the mental health toll of running a community-driven company under constant scrutiny.

We also talk about the sale of Joycult, what really happened behind the scenes, how the brand changed after the buyout, and where Matt is today, including his transition into fine art, writing, and life beyond fingerboarding.

This episode isn’t about drama, it’s about context, accountability, creativity, and growth. Whether you were there during the early Joycult era or you’re new to fingerboarding, this is a must-listen conversation that captures an important chapter of fingerboarding culture.

If you enjoy the show, please like, follow, and share!

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Transcript

speaker-1 (00:13)
you

to USA FBL fingerboard podcast, the official voice of fingerboarding culture from league news to community stories for real insight writer interviews in the heart of the scene. Please follow turn on notifications for us now let's get into fingerboarding. I'm your host, Levine Cunningham. Today I've got Matt, the original founder of Joy Cold on the podcast. Matt, welcome to the pod. How you been?

speaker-0 (00:37)
Man, how have you been?

speaker-1 (00:39)
Man, I am excited about this interview. I very rarely get to interview people that have been around in the scene for so, long, but the love for JoyCult and the hate for JoyCult is strong. And so I'm excited for this one. I think the people are excited. I'm excited to get into it. For sure, for sure. So before we even get into all the...

speaker-0 (00:59)
but it's gonna be an interesting one.

speaker-1 (01:04)
just the nuts and bolts of the interview. Like let's kind of get people kind of familiar with like, you know, who you are. Let's talk about the, ⁓ the origin story. Tell us the origin story for Matt kind of growing up.

speaker-0 (01:17)
Yeah, oh, or just for me in general, well, yeah, I was born in Toronto, just normal Canadian dude growing up, playing hockey and rinks and stuff. yeah, I started skateboarding at a young age, probably like 13. And then, yeah, that's, I haven't had to think back that far in my life, but I pretty much consider the start of my life was when skateboarding started, I guess, so.

Literally didn't do anything else except skating. Like totally like dropped out of high school, which is like skating. Had like quasi ambitions of being a professional skateboarder, but yeah, that's like quickly was like, oh yeah, that's not happening. Loving it so much that it was unreasonable to start a skateboard company. So I had learned about finger boarding and then started a finger board company too. Born, found a skateboard years later, then started a finger board company.

speaker-1 (02:10)
So original plan was to start a skateboarding company?

speaker-0 (02:13)
No, I know. think that if we're talking about specifically the start of the fingerboard company, that was more of at the time I had fingerboard. I didn't call it fingerboarding. I call it tech decking for like my whole life since 1999. Just like out of sheer enjoyment out of myself. And I've never been ⁓ really big on technology or anything. I think I'm like the iPhone like

I had like a still like a Samsung or a Nokia like little candy bar, QWERTY keyboard phone. But I was doing this a lot and then somebody pointed out to me, seen me doing it they're like, dude, did you know that there's like actual professional finger boarders? Like check out this Mike Schneider guy and he showed me a bunch of videos on YouTube. And I was doing like, yeah, like the same shit that they were doing.

And here I am thinking I'm like one of the only people in the world doing this, at least how I was doing it, because I was, I was trying to like, you know, do a real kick flip into like my ship and all that stuff. ⁓ yeah, I was just ⁓ shocked. I was like amazed. was, and at that point too, I did, I was amazed at so many things. One, that there are other people doing it. And then two, that they made like professional fingerboards. was like, you kidding me? Like, dang, they made it a real wood and all this stuff.

And then, so I got a fingerboard and then things just escalated way too quickly from there. I started to notice that there were, there was just like, it was cool. Like there was a lot of cool fingerboard companies, but there wasn't any that just had this kind of raw skate feel that I kind of was like looking for, I guess. Cause all this time, like my obsession with fingerboarding was from like just not being able to skate like, or, you know, it's winter time here a lot. We're not, we can't like go to an indoor skate park.

Sometimes it's even in summer, it's usually like raining a lot up here. But yeah, and then as I started to notice, like, man, there just isn't this thing here that's like captivating my interest. And then I started to get the idea, like, maybe I should just start something like, like if these other people do it, like, why can't I? It doesn't seem that crazy. And then one thing like just slowly led to the next, like I didn't have a name for it at the beginning. I, in fact, like I wanted to do boards in the beginning. I wasn't even thinking about wheels. And then.

everything as it sort of just intensified started to progress and develop into what it was.

speaker-1 (04:44)
What happened to that goal, that dream? Like, what was the deciding factor to kind of abandon the finger boarding side of it?

speaker-0 (04:54)
Well, it came down to a thing of like, I really didn't want to like do like the obvious thing, I feel like. I thought it was almost like so played out to make boards in my mind. And like I see other people do it and because the boards were, I feel like it, yeah, it was like a bit of like ease of access for a lot of people at the time, respectively, I should say, because now it's just like everyone and their grandmother has a...

fingerboard company. Yeah, wanted to, I decided to tackle something a bit more of a challenge that I really had no idea. And I couldn't find any available information online about. And I also did that so that, you know, when I eventually like it just, was something harder to replicate. You know what I mean? Like, they're just, I really wanted to be my own thing in my own lane. And ⁓ I just felt like boards were just not enough to stand out of that. And then it also led me down a whole nother, a whole

separate vein of, ⁓ you know, actually, and there are actually a lot of improvements I can make in the wheel, ⁓ like a subsection of the industry or niche. I noticed that, yeah, there weren't a lot of wheels advertising like real skate durometers. And this was still like when Oak was really the main, only, I think, urethane guys in the game. There might've been like one other.

weird person that was like kind of like doing it on the side. really Oak was like at the time it was like, Oak is the shit. They're the irritating guys. Oak still is the shit. I love Ricardo so much. I've hung out with him a couple of times and he's the best. ⁓ Ricardo, Aquile. Yeah, big shout out to Ricardo, man. ⁓ He invited me up to Pateo a couple of times since all this has been said and done, but ⁓ I never made it up. I got to go up to Portugal to see him.

speaker-1 (06:37)
Shout out

speaker-0 (06:50)
But Oak was, yeah, Oak was just killing it at the time. And so they were really my only sort of thing to base off of like, well, one, what not to copy. You know what I mean? Like don't make any shapes like this size. So I had to do like all that research.

speaker-1 (07:07)
So when we're talking about time period, mean, can you give us an estimated like year range just so that the viewers can kind of get a sense of, know, what era we're talking about?

speaker-0 (07:16)
This would have been in probably the research and development started like picking up really heavily and like when it became like a real idea, probably in the end of 2012, beginning of 2013 or around that time. Yeah. It was about a year before Joyco officially launched was when it all was being developed and researched.

speaker-1 (07:32)
Yeah, somewhere in there.

There wasn't enough wheels out there and it was basically more of a challenge for you. Cause you seem like a person that doesn't take the easy road. You're more, how do I figure this out and make this cool, make this good kind of a person.

speaker-0 (07:54)
Yeah, yeah, I was thinking, I was more thinking, I just wanted, yeah, you know, just to build something with a little bit more, I don't know, like I said, it just seemed more solid and more ambitious and like, it just made more sense. Like if I could have, I asked myself, like when I was doing that, I remember like, do you want to do a board company or if you could wave a magic wand, what would you make? Like forget that you don't know how, if you could wave a magic wand, what would you want to be? The wheel guy, that sounds cool. And I love wheels.

like skateboarding in real life, they're like the thing that make you go fast, right? Like, and that's like my favorite thing. So it just, it's the thing too that connects you to the ground. Like they're like the coolest part of the skateboard to me. So yeah, I just, ⁓ it just, everything ⁓ seemed to point to going the direction of wheels and then, but yeah, then that just led to the whole other issue of like, we'll know where, how do we even start to do this? Like, you know what I mean? Like where do I even begin?

That was a really a period of just grinding and hustling and staying up late and prototyping things and ideas and methods. yeah.

speaker-1 (09:07)
So when did you realize that you were able to produce good enough wheels to start the Joyco brand?

speaker-0 (09:15)
Pretty much, it wasn't like that far from the first prototypes. Once we had the first prototypes, kind of knew like what needed to be corrected. And then that made it a lot easier. Humans are creatures of comparison. It's easier to like put something there and then go, is this good or bad than having nothing there and just making all these guesses. So just had to make a, like I just said, a good solid guess at how it would be to make a wheel.

And then, just sort of work a bit backwards from there. And then, ⁓ yeah, just like little tweaks is mostly tweaks, nothing really with ⁓ formula. The formula was like really, I liked it a lot since the beginning, but there were just other little issues we were trying to work out with mostly like fit and bearing fit and just all these little things like that, ⁓ finalizing like the size and one little step at a time, They all just add up to one giant, I don't know, step.

speaker-1 (10:15)
Interesting. Okay. So when did JoyColt the brand start? Like when was it, what year was it like, ⁓ like officially a brand you're finally working and building this brand?

speaker-0 (10:25)
I

think that it was, it would have been 2014, I believe, was like the first year. Because yeah, the 10 years was just, I think last year.

speaker-1 (10:36)
And a fun fact is your wheels were the first professional wheels I ever had the opportunity to skate shred and actually like get a feel. So in 2020, I went to my very first finger boarding event. actually went to two finger boarding events on the same day. It's kind of a weird story, but all the OG years who listened to the pod, they know the origin story, but

speaker-0 (10:47)
nowhere.

speaker-1 (10:59)
I went out, I was just coming basically back from finger boarding into COVID and dusted off all the old like tech tech ramps, all the old finger boards and they're all like just, you know, 29 millimeter tech decks. So I went to Walmart and picked up a new finger board and then I was like, okay, what else is out there? And then it was like a tech tech performance series, which they have like the poly or a thingy kind of wheels or whatever. And then saw that there was an event coming up in a few weeks. And so I went out to that event.

For reference, I'm the kind of guy that's like, doesn't really justify just spending crazy amounts of money on a setup unless it just made sense. And this was like me coming back into the scene. And so like, you know, 150 bucks for a new setup. I'm like, I don't know. That's kind of crazy. This $13 setup, I can still do tricks just fine. And then I went out to the event and Austin and shout out RIP Connor.

They had a big mama, sorry, a big mini dose, like back of a ramp, a couple of obstacles, and they have full pro setups.

but one of the wheels that this pro setup had were Joy-Colt and he was bragging about it. was like, yeah, dude, I got some OG Joy-Colt wheels. At the time I was like, I saw people talking about the internet, but I'm like, I didn't really understand it and stuff, because I was gone from 2010 to 2020. And so when I got ahold of this setup and I was feeling them stuff and it just made everything that I've been using.

all way up into that period just just trash like I went home from that event like I have to max out a credit card and buy me some like kids that are pro wheels like you those wheels hit so hard that like it changed my entire perspective on like what is good what is like not that

speaker-0 (12:43)
I appreciate that a lot, man. That really means a lot because, you know, that was like the important thing, man. It was like, yeah, the feeling of those wheels and how it related to the real skateboarding experience was like the most important thing to me. You know, to this day when people mention that, it makes me so happy because that was ultimately just a gold, man, you know? And I think that that's more of a product of just

what happens when actual real skateboarders are like heading something like that. You know I mean? Not to say there aren't fingerboarders, there aren't real skateboarders doing it and who make whatever products are like good products. But ⁓ I think that the ones that shine the most are the ones that actually skate. You know what I mean? And they're trying to make it like skating and take those little extra steps to make it that way. But I did that means so much, man. ⁓

you know, again, because that was my goal. That's what I wanted people to feel when they felt those wheels for first time. And I felt the same way. I was like, I love this. Like, oh my God. Like, I remember, like, that's when I knew that I, for me, like, that was onto something good. When that moment when we got the formula pretty much right, I love this. This is like, is actually, prefer this over, not just because I made it, like, it's actually, wow. And

speaker-1 (14:02)
where it was like,

speaker-0 (14:10)
No, man, I try to bullshit up my own ass. But yeah, that was some fucking hard work, man. There's lot of intent and thought and sincerity behind that.

speaker-1 (14:19)
Well, credit where credit's due, man. mean, you no pun intended. mean, you started a cult. Like you literally had a large group of people that swore by your product. Like I had the opportunity to test them out and feel them for myself. It literally changed my whole finger boarding perspective. And I know like everyone who had the older batch of these wheels, they were literally like, these are the ones. And even like in the secondary market, like, you know, these wheels still go crazy high price. Like they're still very sought after products.

speaker-0 (14:48)
nuts man. I haven't looked or paid attention. I've heard things from people but so that's cool. That's cool man. Hey if they increase the value over time then that's a good it's something okay.

speaker-1 (15:00)
Let's

talk about the name JoyCult. What's the history behind that? How'd you come up with that? Or did it come to you or was it given to you, I guess?

speaker-0 (15:09)
No, that was a... ⁓ Every little thing behind that brand has so much intent down to like the fonts and any like just the littlest details. And yeah, there's a lot of meaning behind that name. Obviously, when I was trying to think of a name, maybe I'll send you like a picture of the funny... I have like ⁓ the original book.

still where I was like brainstorming names and then joy cults there and it's circled and it's kind of cool, but you can see like where it's going. But the meaning behind it is, ⁓ it was, when I started, don't know what it is now, cause I don't, don't get, but when I started it, it was just simple. was like the cult was describing the people with finger boarding that I found and joy was the feeling I was getting from it. That's it. And then I put it all one word.

just to fuck with people a bit. Had to make it interesting somehow. And yeah, but that's how that name started. yeah, I was actually kind of iffy about it at first too, but it ended up just started just like it was on the business license and I didn't have time to change it. And it just was like, well, it just was a of joy called and if it really bothers me down the road, then we can fix it, but it's okay for now.

But people really liked it and was actually glad, ended up being glad keeping that name. cause it did, had some meaning behind it. even though it was weird.

speaker-1 (16:43)
It just feels like it works. It feels like it wasn't forced. It feels really organic. It feels really authentic, I guess you would say.

speaker-0 (16:50)
I appreciate that man. I hope it died to people, know, that's what the aim was, like I said, so...

speaker-1 (16:56)
All right. So let's talk about the company life cycle. like you started JoyColt, you started making very, very great wheels. And then the transition, I wasn't one, I don't want, hate using the word like downfall or anything like negative like that, but like we talked about the rise of JoyColt.

speaker-0 (17:19)
It was bad. You can call it what it is. was that it was a it was a it was a bit of a bit of a crash, man. It was what do you want to know about it?

speaker-1 (17:29)
We all have questions because there's rumors, there's theories, there's like the brand just kind of went down a spiral and some people are like maybe he's on drugs, maybe he's this, maybe he's that, like you know the internet's a crazy place like people one person could say something and then like 19 other people will literally chime in and all of us just like a witch hunt and so I feel like

This is definitely a great opportunity to kind of like what people know, like, you know, was it a tragedy? Was it a death? Was it drugs? Like what, what happened? Like why did Joy Cold end the way Joy Cold ended?

speaker-0 (18:09)
Yeah, man. You know, it's, like you said, it's not, there's no way to really beat around the bush around it, especially for me. And I feel like that I've been open on my end, at least personally on like social media to other finger boarders in the community about what has happened on my end. But yeah, it was, in my opinion, just a mixture of

of quite a few things. then the first ⁓ main thing being when COVID really started and that had issues started just obviously the world was just totally stressed out at that point when it was like really new. ⁓ especially here in Canada, like it was, they were pretty nuts with the rules here with us. And that led to some initial.

issues with ⁓ shipping. Like one time, for example, there was, I would always do, maybe you remember, like it was just, it was always in drops and that wasn't in, as a, like ⁓ an intentional thing. I never like made Joy-Call wheels and they didn't sell out. Like never. Like I wish that I had wheels just sitting on my site and they were just trickling in and all this stuff. But right around COVID,

COVID was already happening and I had one drop and shipped them and all the American orders, least a huge majority, I think it was like 80 or 70 something of these orders, went to this USPS sort facility in Chicago. At the time, they had a COVID outbreak at their facility and told us that they had to close down their facility for three whole weeks. And this was from the time that, so.

All these packages of wheels are just sitting in this USPSR facility. And not only that, the tracking information wasn't even being updated like at all. And it was actually giving some, think, weird message. I don't know if you can even understand what it's like to try to to like calm down like 70 to 80 freaking out like people like about where their shit is. And I don't blame them. You know what I mean? I really don't.

But this USPS place, and you know, some people are, maybe you don't, but I know lot of company owners will empathize. There's people, they'll message you every fucking day. Like every fucking day. And you just, didn't have answers a lot of those times. You know what I mean? I'm just gonna call the USPS place and they're gonna tell me the same thing that they just told me. That was like, I remember the first big like...

I think I actually grew gray hair from those first gray hairs of my life were from there. I remember literally looking in mirror and being like, wow, yeah, that happened and I have these grays on my chin. From there, it ended up getting sorted out. Shipping and all these other things, not only for shipping the products to the customers, but receiving my materials to make the products with. And then...

Bills are starting to pile up and people are filing claims against things. know what I mean? Shopify at the time, I remember if there was, it was a credit card or like a debit card payment, the customer could literally just dispute that and they would just take the money. It didn't even matter. wasn't like PayPal where you could even like, okay, well here's the tracking or here's some evidence and stuff like that. It would just like.

boom, this person ordered 500 bucks worth of stuff and they want it refunded. And you're like, I shipped this. Here's the tracking. They're like, sorry. It was crazy. ⁓ Just things like that started piling up. It was just, it was a lot at the time too. Man, this is what I mean. Like there's just so many things. had employees at the time. And then right when COVID started, our government offered to pay everybody to not work. And my employees were like super down with that because they were super scared.

They're like, listen, like, I'm not going to come to work. I'm definitely getting paid more from just not going to work at Joyco. And I'm like, so here I am now wearing every fucking hat while the company has grown to like, you know, what it was. Cause yeah, when it was right before COVID was like, I was like, it was awesome. Joyco was great. My employees were getting orders out great. My job was just visuals and direction and organizing events and cool things.

and making content and ⁓ I was just smitten about that. And then that was like a real period of disruption I feel like for me to the point where we were, when we were in COVID, I don't know how long it went for in America, but it was like two full years of it. And then there was like the third year when I didn't know, like it was coming up to winter and the winter was the worst time. Cause it just cooled out. You gotta understand, I never got vaccinated or anything.

I wasn't allowed to like go to fucking stores. Like I wasn't while other people were. And I know that was ⁓ like that for a period in America. And I'm not judging anyone who did get vaccinated or whatever, but I didn't. And that fucked me up. It almost makes me, brings tears to my eyes thinking about it right now. Like how trapped I felt and how not.

Joy cult didn't even seem like important. Like it was just like this thing where every time I would open up that fucking Instagram, it would just getting berated by people. And yeah, people saying crazy things like, he's on drugs or something. I never did drugs. The closest thing I can say that I did to drugs was when that was happening, my family begged me to go on antidepressants and get help. And I did. And that was the only and first time in my life when I was on literal medication.

for my moods. And then that caused even more problems with me. Like that opened up just this whole other door of shit because I was feeling happy for a minute and I was starting to get paranoid because I knew that it wasn't happiness from somewhere meaningful and sincere. I knew it was like a synthetic fake happiness from this pill I was taking. And then that started to bug me. And then when I just decided to quit that stuff, it just messed me up even like more. Like,

I don't think like, like ensure that it was a lot worse in my mind, because I didn't really, wasn't talking to a lot of people. At that point, ⁓ my only remedy was like, that was about right when, ⁓ like at that period before the next winter, when I thought they were gonna make more COVID rules. And I literally left everything and just went to America. That's it. I didn't have a plan. My house.

Like I left, I had a five bedroom house where Joy Cole was being run out of and a mini ramp in the living room and all my furniture and my clothes and everything. I left it there. My aunt would go walk by my house like months after I was living in America. She's like, it's crazy. She's like, your stuff's just here. It looks like a museum. You're like, your landlord hasn't even touched it yet. And I didn't tell him I left. I didn't tell anybody. I just left. And then the reason was because one, I mentally can't survive here.

another season if it's gonna be like this. I actually think that I don't, not, won't make it. ⁓ You could see physically, like the illness in me and like how much it was just bothering me. And ⁓ it's kind of sad because, you know, when I went to America, my whole reason of that was I just wanted to bring JoyPult back to health and show these people, like give these people what they deserve for sure.

And when I got there, just, because of my citizenship and tax ID shits and just everything, man, I couldn't get it running. Like I couldn't, it was impossible. And at that point it was impossible to go home. Like I would not go back to Canada. I fucking would never go back there at that time. And ⁓ yeah, so then randomly at that point in America, I was like, I had

⁓ I was just like, you know what? I'm going to do the only thing that I feel like is good in my heart to do, which is like just start doing dreams, like things I dreamed about doing. One of those things was writing that book and Tommy Tryden. So then I started writing that book down there in LA and while I was doing that, think people got wind of like, that was at the time when like people could tell like really bad things were not good with Joy Caldman.

you there's a time when there's nothing I could even do to help certain people. You know what mean? Like people were emailing me to fix shit. So this John guy who I don't know, I, he, I didn't, he didn't seem to have a fingerboard account or anything. Approach me and ask, yeah, if I'd be interested in selling the company at the time. I have to admit that like that was like, seemed like it just a great idea. Like, because just

I, there is nothing I could feel like I could say or do anymore to anybody that could change how they feel. Even when I was performing good, I would never get the benefit of the doubt or, and I don't blame people for that in a way, but it's just true. Like case in point, like the very first post that they made once they took over the Instagram, like I remember reading that in the comments and just thinking like how many people in there tripping like.

this person saying that this is me and I'm a liar and all this shit or anything. I'm like, this is crazy. Like you guys don't even understand. it's literally you and then you're going to get proved wrong in a couple of days and no one will say shit about it.

speaker-1 (28:12)
Yeah, the other side of a weird spot. before we get into the actual sale of Joy Colt, your story was powerful. Like that's a powerful. This is crazy. Like if you guys are on the audio side, definitely switch over the video side. Like the pure emotion, this power behind your story is it's it's kind of heartbreaking, but it's emotionally it's it's amazing. And the worst way, but it's amazing. Just to kind of recap, like

Never on drugs always had basically the best intentions, but just COVID supply vaccinations, just a combination of like everything basically being a hurdle for you being able to keep JoyCult moving. then for me, I know from personal experience, like if

You are not mentally strong to deal with any kind of criticism. People talking badly about you, whether it's your fault, not your fault. Like it messes with your mental health. And like, I could not even imagine having 70, 80 orders, 70, 80 different people asking me daily. Where's my stuff? What's going on? Can you refund the money? Like, you know, a small brands like, you know, we're reinvesting money. Like that money is not just, you know, willy nilly, just sitting in a savings account waiting.

for people like, you know, it's like you're constantly moving money around, investing it like that money is basically kind of gone. And so like, I don't know, I'm not kind of speaking for you, but I'm assuming that like, you know, the ability to be able to refund that many orders is probably not even doable.

speaker-0 (29:50)
possible, Like, and, and, you know, to like play devil's advocate even like, you know, there's also it's not just like, yeah, like as much as I'm just trying to say, like, it's, it's not like I take like that. At the end of the day, no matter what it was COVID or whatever it was, like the reality is like, yeah, like I'm at the wheel of that. You know what I mean? And I'm Yeah, and it just Yeah.

you man like there's just certain things that I couldn't do. Like I don't know how to explain it. And it's obviously it's like it's embarrassing. You know what I mean? And especially when just like not very long ago, like a couple years before that, like it was awesome. It was crazy. Everyone's happy. And like we're moving the scene in a good direction. Yeah, man. It just got too much and I don't know what to say. Like it just.

situational thing and so many tiny things piling up. Yeah, the main thing too was just, man, like, ⁓ you know, I'm much mentally stronger now, but ⁓ at the time, yeah, that was horrible, what was happening. Every person who ever like said something like bad to me or like was doing some sort of like troll campaign, I...

genuinely would try to talk to them and understand like, did I, is there something I can fix that you did? honest reality was nine times out of 10, they weren't even people who even bought wheels for me once. That's like sort of a moment when I started realizing like, man, yeah, I don't think like, this is something I can even fix like, or anything at this point. Like, you know, it's just like, there's this whole mob mentality is just too much and

There's always someone who wants to just like try to get something out of you and arise and you know, they don't care. Even if 90, like there'll always be that one person out, you know? So I just, yeah, it was just all too much, man. I don't know what else to say, but to the very end, like I tried to fix that. You know what I mean? Like that whole time when I was like going through that shit, it was just constant like, how do I fix joint call? How do I fix joint call? How do I fix this? How do I fix this?

And then, yeah, the only thing that seemed logical at the time was just America. This would be great. Yeah, let's go to America. And you know, it's funny, because at the end of the day, America did save Joy Colt. The main thing that made me sign that agreement was the fact that John and Scott agreed to reimburse and fix every bad order. And that was just like, to me, like, that's all I cared about. I'm like, just please, like, just get it fucking right with them.

wherever it goes from there, it's good. It is what it was. And I thought in my head that that would sort of please people and make people happy and we could all just be cool. It's like, I don't have nothing to show for that shit. But yeah, there's still people who will just, they wanna keep believing or... ⁓

making your life miserable for some reason. I don't get it, man. I don't even know any of these people,

speaker-1 (33:17)
There's haters, trolls, they honestly, they get off to that stuff. Like they feed off of that negative energy. And unfortunately there really isn't much that anyone can really do about that stuff. But kind of looking back at everything, cause I set up a lot of platforms. Like we have...

the largest like Facebook groups and I'm moderator on like a ton of other groups and stuff as well. So like I got to see people love the brand and hype the brand and was excited when these drops happened and my very early days of coming back and then somewhere probably around like.

2021, 2022 is when like orders started getting delayed and then all of the speculators, all the opinions kind of started flooding into the Facebook groups, the comments sections, things like that. And then when did was like 2023 or 20 like end of 2023, I think maybe 2024 where Scott basically ended up buying out your brand.

and made that announcement and then like nothing but positive praise on that. Cause everybody wants to see JoyCult succeed. Everybody loves the wheels and wants to see the wheels returned back to the community. And so like when that announcement was made, there was no hate. was no.

bad like comments and bad this, like everybody was like, okay, cool. They're going to start fulfilling orders. They're going to get everybody who order stuff, just going to get their orders finally fulfilled. Like the brand is going to be moved forward. Like nothing but positive praise basically. So like people loved what you did and what you built. We just needed that. Like this interview really to kind of get into like, you know, what happened between the rise of JoyCult and where like

The fulfillment side just kind of just vanished and we were all left with just negative comment sections trying to speculate what happened.

speaker-0 (35:21)
absolutely, No. ⁓ Yeah, man. It's weird thinking about that stuff now. Like I said, it's like, life's changed so much and just, especially just how I was mentally. And I don't blame anybody for a lot of that stuff. Like, I don't, I'm not like ever like woe is me or like I think the world owes me anything. They don't like not anything. I love Fingerborders, man. And that community was a big part of my life. No matter where it ended.

There was a time when, yeah, like my heart and soul was just trying to grow that scene. you ⁓ know, I'm, you know, I'm, yeah, I'm glad that it's still, that the wheels are still around. And I think that that's cool and everything. you know, so, ⁓ you know, it did, it made me happy to read that a lot of people were, you know, happy with that decision.

Yeah, in my opinion, it was the best thing I could have done because at the time too, I was also very committed to just like either writing or just art in general. Like I couldn't even figure it out. I knew it just had to be something with making art for the sake of making art, like not putting my art on a product or something. And, you know, I'm thankful that that all happened now because, you know, I'm, right now, like I love

like what I'm doing and my mission that I'm on. And I don't think that I would be doing it if I wasn't sort of cornhole into doing it by, you know, just having to come back home to Canada after like, yeah, I was basically overstating my welcome in America because I wasn't a heavy green card. And I did get in trouble, but I was like, okay, I got to probably go before I get the boot. Like I don't want to ruin my track record here. I want to be able to come back. Life's just started.

Continuing it on, you know, just, that stuff gets farther and farther in the rear view, I think it's for everybody, know, it's like, things simmer down a little bit. And you know, I've had a lot of messages now of people saying positive things to me. you know, I very rarely, like hardly ever encounter like some kind of control no matter what I post on the internet. So.

Like I said, man, and I think it's, yeah, I think a lot of people were aware of that at that time too. Like they were living through that shit too. And a lot of people also saw that cookie shit going on in the fingerboard scene, trolling and mobbing up and stuff. seemed very like clicky. There was little sub circles of every, it wasn't like when I was finger boarding and so it all started to me. It felt like finger boarding, like all the cool, like the main like guy brands.

We're like everyone, all buddies. We're all like, everybody uses everything. We're all cool. Like, but then it just turned into like, these guys is like the SoCal guys. And then the fucking the Northeaster guys and fucking, yeah, it was like just a weird thing. I don't know how it is now. And I'm not speculating or hating, but.

speaker-1 (38:29)
I get that. Okay, so talk to us or walk us through, I guess you would call it, this is a buyout, I guess you would say, of Joy Colt.

speaker-0 (38:38)
Yeah,

man. Yeah, like I said, or was saying earlier, I got approached by someone who I didn't know named John, asking me if I'd be interested in selling the company. And I didn't know who he was at all. he wasn't like a friend of mine. didn't know him. didn't think I saw any finger boarding on his like Instagram. I was just generally, who's this guy he wants by my company? I actually didn't even think, I thought it was like just.

kind of talking shit like some kid, like just said, he might've offered some whatever, but he was serious. He'd sent some follow-up messages being like, I'm dead serious. Like, I'm not kidding around at all. Like, you know, I'm like a real deal business deal, like legit and everything, lawyers, signed papers. Yeah, I just started thinking, like, you know what? I'm like, what other options do I have? Like, really? was like, technically homeless living in LA and like,

barely surviving. Yeah, this would help me write my book and give me some food in my belly and definitely a plane ticket back home. So, yeah, I was like, I just started entertaining the idea with him and talking things. And then, yeah, it came down to like, I was like, yeah, you know, I'll do it, like, sure. You know, I sold it for pennies on the dollar.

Joycold sold for less than what the two molds cost me. Just put it that way to make the wheels. That's not including the, they got a deal on that shit. ⁓ But that was fine with me at the time, like I said, I signed and the main thing was that they were gonna correct all those things. So John offered to buy this off me. And then after we talked a while and negotiated some things,

I was basically like, okay, cool. And then last minute, apparently Scott was involved. I didn't even know he knew Scott. And I'm like, Scott, like Scott from Dynamic? He's like, yeah, yeah, he's gonna sign it with me. He's gonna partner with me. And I was like, at the time, I remember just saying like, I was actually kind of worried because no offense to John, but you didn't look like he really skated or I didn't know what he was gonna do with the brand.

Like I just thought I was literally giving the brand to some guy and he was just gonna do whatever. And at that point, I didn't really care, like either. was like, do whatever you're gonna do with the brand. But then when Scott got involved, then yeah. And then I was like, well, that's even better. Like Scott's like, you know, someone who's notable and finger boarding and people are gonna know who that is when he has to change the, or like tell people that it's not me there anymore.

Hi, it's this guy named John. No one knows me. My Instagram has no pictures, but it's not Matt. And I can assure you that. I couldn't imagine how that would have gone. Like people just would thought like, there's Matt. He's high on drugs again or something. No, luckily, ⁓ yeah, Scott jumped in. And I think that John has, I'm not going to speculate on who has what, because I don't know what's going on with company now. But when I left, it was John and Scott who signed on that contract and they owned

company. It was mostly John.

speaker-1 (41:59)
So when this sale happened, did you feel a sigh relief? Were you happy? Were you sad? Like kind of tell us the emotions behind, you know, letting this baby that you created, like just kind of, you know, leave your hands legally, I guess you would say.

speaker-0 (42:17)
Yeah, no. At first I was like kinda happy and optimistic. A part of the contract initially was to offer me employment for three years with Joycove. That excited me because that gave me like sort of a feeling like I can stay here and sort of like, you know, eventually if I do leave, like I can at least like guide you guys and show you everything. And like, so you have a good idea of like the rhythm and like the type of image and how I make graphics and everything.

And I didn't want to be involved with production. That was like Scott's forte. And he is a great backend businessman. But that just never happened. was, I'll just admit, they were just kind of turned into some all of sudden bad blood there. And I was a bit befuddled why. It started off with sort of legal crap about payments for the thing.

The contract said that they weren't entitled to, that they weren't liable for any debt that JoyCult had. One of the mold got repaired one time and it was at the urethane facility. They had like an in-house engineer or whatever who does that stuff there. And when this had happened before in the past, when like the mold just eventually just wears out a little bit and it needs some repairs to make all the fits snug.

But there was like an agreement that we had, I had with the manufacturer where basically they took the cost of the repair and tacked it on to every time that I would order urethane, like a percent until the debt was from the repair was paid. They didn't pay me the last third of what they were supposed to pay me saying that.

they're paying it to the urethane guy. Which I thought was a bit fucked up because you know if you signed a contract saying you're not liable to pay my debts then why are you all of a sudden liable to pay my debts with my money? You know what I mean? Or any money. If you're not liable and that's what you signed then you just tell them you signed a thing and it says you're not liable. And you pay me the money and I can take care of my debts in however way I just deal like it, feel like it. But

Um, yeah, they withheld that and then that led to no employment with them because like whatever and then there were other things that came up and I'm also, you know, I'm just sort of, don't know what else to say because I'm just saying things how they happen. Like I personally don't have any animosity towards anybody really, especially not John or Scott. I genuinely don't know what happened with them.

other than the confusion from that and the falling out with that. And there was some like bitterness from my partner. think like I like withheld like the YouTube for like joy calls. Like, well, if you guys aren't gonna pay me that, then I'll give you this. But I ended up giving them all that stuff. And ⁓ then when my father passed away two years ago, I messaged them like right away being like, hey man, like you guys got emails and they're my last communications with my dad and pictures and shit.

know, sensitive stuff, I need that. Because I'm trying to plan the guy's funeral and I would love to read those things and also would just like to see some of the pictures. And I posted all about it at the time, like I'm not gonna like whatever, but yeah, they didn't give me any of that shit for months, months. And I would message them a lot. And I was texting them and calling them and one time out of the blue, I just got some crazy phone call from John at like one in the morning, him just on a.

Just irate. I didn't even understand what was happening. I picked up the phone. I thought I was having like a dream or nightmare. was like, I just heard yelling at me. was like, what the hell is going on? Saying the craziest, meanest things. Then I realized like when I, hung up and I realized it was John and then he sent me some message saying something about like, I don't know you the dirt under my feet, like blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, like some bit like, you know, let alone your dad's emails or something like that. And I was just like.

That's crazy. And I was like, you know what? Don't talk to me again, either you guys. And then, yeah. But you know, then there were other weird things too that made me creeped out about that too. Like the fact that they even had the emails still. Like, why are you holding onto my personal emails? Like, dude, like you kidding me? Go ahead. Because I really don't want any drama, man. But you know, things just didn't work out between me and the new owners. And you know, I thought we were going to be buddies a bit, but.

speaker-1 (47:05)
business gets messy. Everybody is passionate. mean, can't make, I'm not, I mean, I got to stay neutral and give them the metaphor of the doubt. But I mean, business just gets messy and you're passionate about what's going on here. I'm sure that they are also passionate about what's going on here. it's, it's a situation where like both sides, I feel like probably

needed to step up just a little bit to make everything smoother and a little more clean. Yeah, to an extent. And I think because of that, like, there's going to be this animosity, there's going to be this he said she said, and then we're going to retaliate because he said, she said, and it just gets really, really messy, really, really quick. And then next, know, you guys are literally beefing over the littlest of stuff, you know, whether it's an email or ⁓

they're using payments to cover debts and just it just becomes really stupid real fast.

speaker-0 (48:05)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I felt like a lot of that was just sort of unnecessary, too. You know what mean? Again, like to clarify, you know, John Scott, if anyone's listening to this or watching, like, love and respect you guys, man. have no animosity towards anyone right now. People say things when they're upset about things. And, you know, like, you know, my vibe has just always been since all that shit. like, just, I'm just happy to be here, man.

I don't care about the money, I don't care about anything. It was nothing, man. That's all I can really say. Wish everyone the best. I'd hope that one, Scott too, especially, I really love Scott. I stayed with him a couple times when I was down in California and I vibed with him really well. I never had to this day a specific interaction with Scott about any of this stuff. I was usually...

If it was related to the business stuff and the contract, I was usually dealing with John. And he was the one that had that sort of blow up on me then one day. I have no, like I said, man, I hope those guys are doing well, man. Wish them the best. And that's all I could really say.

speaker-1 (49:20)
Well, now that the business has been sold for what over a year now, three years, it's been that long. Man, time is flying. All right. So proud of the direction that the brand is going. Are you happy with it? Are you kind of sad or is it, has it met your expectations? Like, I mean, what are your feelings and stuff as far as like where the brand is now?

speaker-0 (49:24)
Three years.

I've seen like some things, like I really don't look. I think actually they obviously had me blocked, I believe. But ⁓ I have ⁓ it, I know that like, yeah, they definitely changed up the image. You know, I don't know about what else they did, you know. And again, just with, I don't think it's joy like what it was, but is it supposed to be now at this point? Like, I don't know. So it's cool. I think that the wheels are still the same.

I don't know if they've changed formulas or manufacturers or things like that. haven't, I again, literally since that time, I have not like.

anything Joy-Cult. was like, especially like, yeah, once I knew that like the things with Joy-Cult were like, it was actually kind of like a very specific thing to like not like think about or look at finger boarding or Joy-Cult stuff for a really long time. I don't know. I don't know. I heard it there in Walmart. I don't think that that's a good move. ⁓ But it's their company, man. So that's all I can really say. Don't use AI graphics. I don't know. It's weird, but.

No, don't put any of stuff in. I'll be pretty done with your shit. No, fuck man, I don't know dude. Yeah, the company is doing its thing now and just it looks a little different and that's cool.

speaker-1 (51:02)
Well, I mean, I know that you're an artist and I know that artists, they treasure and value what they create. And so for someone else to take that over at any capacity, I know that's tough. And so it's always interesting just kind of see like how people feel about, you know, things being recreated, re-ran, re-branded, things like that. So.

speaker-0 (51:24)
Yeah, I don't know. don't, don't, I don't, don't, again, it's not my taste. That's all I'll say. I just can't, like, I don't want to like, like they're, they're, if they're happy with their thing they're doing, then that's awesome. You know what I mean? Like, ⁓ because that's the point. Like when I was doing Joy Cult, like that's my bar for measurement of like, am I fucking happy with this? Fuck yeah, I am. Then let's do it. Like, so if they're happy, then they're, they must be cause they're doing it. So then.

It's good, it's all good.

speaker-1 (51:54)
So what are you doing currently? What's what is Matt doing presently? Like I've seen I've been following the art account now for quite some time. I know you're heavy in the art. You talked about a book. Let's kind of walk through the book and then transition into what you're doing currently.

speaker-0 (52:06)
Yeah.

Yeah, man. Yeah. Like I said, right after Joycall, I had this... I had actually been writing it, like started writing it, the words, when I was still in Canada. And then when I was in America, I just said, yeah, just went the kind of like, it was just like, what can I do now? Like, I really can't make the wheels anywhere. I can't start a website. Like, I'm not gonna just fucking sit here and whatever. Like, what dream can I taste?

if there's one that I even can chase. And, you know, I just so happened to have my iPad that I could draw on and write things. And then it just sort of one thing led to the next. I was like, yeah, I got this, that book. I'm like, don't I just finish the book and then why don't I illustrate the book while I'm sitting here? So then I just like, like literally learned how to illustrate and publish my own book within like two months. Like, yeah. And then

I'm like, I'm an author now. And by the way, I love my book. I'm so proud of that book. it literally brings, like, it makes me emotional reading the book, like to this day. And everyone of my main friends that reads it say the same thing too. When they get to the end, like, they feel like they want to shed a little tear. And ⁓ cause there's a lot of heart and soul in that shit. Just like kind of how Joy Call was like.

But it was just, feel like the wrong place at the wrong time. And maybe I just saw like a new author that I don't even know how that game works really well. But that book right now is in the Brantford Public Library, my hometown. Like it's here, like they accepted it as actual like real book. And that I got featured on iDabble, Jordan Maxman, those guys, and Apple Yard did a segment with me promoting my book when I was down there. And that was like,

because at that point the book wasn't even released yet and they were stoked on it. So my dad passed away and when he passed away, I don't know what came over me. I just started to paint. I used to draw a lot when I was a kid and obviously a lot of the graphics and know, everything for JoyPult was drawn by me digitally.

And yeah, but I hated screens. So I was like, fuck it. I'll try painting, man. Like, let's do paintings. And then I did some paintings and then I like posted like the first or second one I did. And my friends and family didn't even believe that I painted it. They were so supportive. And then I was like all excited because they fucking, you know, they're exciting me.

and then just encouraged me to try to paint better pictures. And then I started doing that process over and over again. And then now like, yeah, I paint commissions of people, do portraits. I have a gallery, or have my first real exhibition coming up at this, ⁓ like a real art gallery that has a literal Andy Warhol painting inside it right now at the Glenhurst Gardens. And that's going to be in June.

And it's like an eight month program leading up to it. So again, like I'm just, I love right now what I do so much more. love, you know, waking up and looking at a canvas and figuring out the problems there and like trying to wake up. then I hated waking up and looking at a screen every day just to do business. Like that really was it.

speaker-1 (55:44)
It's tough. As someone who does this daily, everyday, it's tough.

speaker-0 (55:48)
Yeah, for some, just, was mentally, mentally it was fucking me up. And so, yeah, this was just like such a nice transition into that. And yeah, now this is just what I do. And I really, I just, couldn't imagine not doing this now, which is weird.

speaker-1 (56:10)
All right. So let me backtrack just a little bit. All right. Let's talk about the book. Tell us the name. Where can people find it? Like, I'm I'm sure along with everybody else who's listening or watching this, like, we're all curious now. Like, how do we get our hands on the book? How do we see the book? Read the book? Like, where can we find it?

speaker-0 (56:28)
Yeah, man, the book, I have an Instagram for the book and all the links to I think the book is still available on one. I had it on a few like a book publishing services, but now I think I only have one. But it's the book's called At Tommy Who Tried and the Instagram is the same name, just all At Tommy Who Tried, word. I wrote two books, actually, they're both like they're twin books. It's like the weirdest concept.

I did one called Tommy Who Tried. And then for the chick skaters, I rewrote the whole book, re-illustrated the whole book and changed the character names. So I changed them to girl characters. And then the one girl's name is Tina. And then the other one's the other girl skaters, Kate, in the book. then in Tommy Who Tried, the original, the two boys are named Tommy and Nate. The book is about the power of believing in yourself and dreaming and...

It's based off a true story of me and my friend skateboarding when we were kids. book. I'll send you the digital copy after this so can check it out.

speaker-1 (57:34)
and trust.

Definitely, definitely. And kind of a fun fact, I don't know if anybody really knows, but I actually used to collect art. So as a kid, I was really into art and film. Oh, yeah. I was actually going to go to school originally for art and film, but

My parents, they're like, nobody makes money with art and film. And so they pushed me to go in and get a business degree, which I don't know if it was the wrong thing to do or the right thing to do, but I am kind of been fighting myself on art and creativity. like right now, like, you know, I have terrible video editing skills. I'm a terrible photographer and like,

The last year, I've been slowly starting to learn how to become a better photographer, being a better video editing skills and all that stuff. so I am bringing out the artistic side of myself now that I'm at a point in my life where, fuck it, I do whatever I want now.

speaker-0 (58:41)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (58:41)
I've

done business, I've done events, I've done the finger boarding thing. like now I'm like, you know, now I feel like now that I'm fully established in life is like, you know, career married man and, and life and everything. I'm like, it's kind of time for me to kind of like, get back into my roots and actually be able to start doing what I want to do. Not what like everybody expects from me or what everybody's like.

has their expectations of what I should be doing and stuff. so like, I've got some interesting projects. I don't know if I want to leak them just yet, because like, I'm at the very, very early stages of this and you as an artist, like you can't tell people what you're doing until you're like 90 % done, you know, you don't want people.

That's I am. That's kind of how I am. So I guess I tell you way too early than like people start getting into your head and you start second guessing things and actually know you're not doing it. And so I got crazy things coming out for twenty twenty six that are going to be coming from the heart. They're going to be fingerboard incorporated. The scene hasn't quite seen anything like this, but I'm taking elements from skateboarding, moving it into fingerboarding, but I'm doing it my way.

speaker-0 (59:48)
Yeah, yeah, that's cool, man.

speaker-1 (59:50)
So I'm working on some cool stuff, but.

speaker-0 (59:52)
You

got a good mind, man. that project is in the right hands.

speaker-1 (59:56)
Well, thank you. Thank you. But I also I collect art and been collecting art strongly when I was like 17 all the way to about 23. Yeah, I've got like some Thomas Kinkade's some like, I mean, a lot of them are like G clay printings and stuff like that. But some of these pieces are big. I got some Thomas Dua stuff I got like, man, I'm sitting on for years. I wish I

speaker-0 (1:00:15)
Hey

speaker-1 (1:00:23)
Some of these are like locked up in storage because I don't have a.

speaker-0 (1:00:27)
Art is in your heart, man. Don't let it take away, man.

speaker-1 (1:00:29)
But the stuff I do have in my house though, you know, like a lot of people are like the custom frames for these things, getting them stretched and framed the framing on these things are like expensive. I got $500 on like framing just for like one piece of art and stuff. And it's kind of crazy, but I am actually interested because I've been watching you paint. had a, it's a dark colored painting, kind of like a clown.

speaker-0 (1:00:57)
⁓ is it the one that's my profile picture on? Are you talking about the one with the red filter thing that I posted recently? Yeah, right. Yeah, just dork around with some experiments ⁓ trying to play around with color and how I could make like, ⁓ do different things when you, those two colors that are used for that painting are really close in value if you were to like take away the color.

speaker-1 (1:01:01)
Yeah, but you're-

The one where they are that one.

speaker-0 (1:01:24)
Like if you look at a desaturated version of the image, they would actually appear like very similar. But it's like a weird thing when because the blue is the compliment of red, when you put the red over it, it cancels out the blue and it turns into a black. So when you're not looking at the painting with the red filter, it doesn't make sense because we rely so much on value to understand what we're looking at.

Like I can tell that's like your eye is deep because it's like black, you know what I mean? Your pupil under here is darker because there's shadow under here. But when the shadows are bright, you're all confused. And then when you do that, it's like flipping a switch and then it makes sense. So just a little weird dorky color experiments and stuff.

speaker-1 (1:02:08)
Man, it'd be crazy though. I feel like having one of your pieces in my house. Baller status, baller status.

speaker-0 (1:02:16)
okay, okay,

I'll send you a nice painting.

speaker-1 (1:02:21)
Appreciate that, appreciate that. We'll definitely have to talk after the pod on it for sure. Alright, so are you done with fingerboarding completely? Are you still fingerboarding personally? like, what's Matt doing as far as ⁓ getting back into the hobby?

speaker-0 (1:02:25)
Yeah, definitely.

I currently, literally, officially don't own a fingerboard right now at all. No fingerboard. I have a tiny box left with some little mementos from the past. Obviously that thought was there for a while. I never wanted to leave realistically, you know what I mean? But I go through things where I felt like, I'm gonna do something better than JoyCo.

do like Joy-Claw, because there things when Joy-Claw started right there, I wish I could have gone back and sort of almost changed, like visual things, like every little thing, like, but it's things that sort of started to become a part of the brand. And so, yeah, it was a very sort of ⁓ exciting idea to think like, yeah, you know, I could just like do like a super version of this, like now with the knowledge that I have. And really now I just... ⁓

You know, I'm trying to go live off grid. have some land out in Nova Scotia. It's just land right now, like literally nothing. And my plan is to literally just have my exhibition here, my first real one, and quote unquote, make it as an artist. Not even make it as in monetarily, but just like to have your place in a real gallery. That's an achievement. It's an achievement. It is. And I'm not trying to...

blow shit up my ass, but I'm, you know, impressive myself that I did that. And then, you know, once I just get that done, to me, man, I just want to go live in the fucking woods and just paint, like, and not worry about fucking, you know, hitting a whole bunch of red and worry, looking at screens all the time. And ⁓ more and more as time goes by now, I just, yeah, I'm getting more closer to that.

You know, I made a post like a couple days ago about like, I honestly thought it was gonna be a total blow up, was why I posted it. But I asked people like, would you want like a comeback and like finger boarding? And it was weird because the poll, like I think it was like 60 or something people voted like yes. Like 100 % of people like yes, it wasn't one vote for no. And yeah, that makes me feel good. If anything, it gives me like some,

It's like a nice bit of like sort of delayed gratification and validation for things. It's nice to know that like, you know, people can come around and appreciate you for what you did and contributed and are able to, you know, discern that from, you know, when times were bad and mistakes were being made and, you know, understand that like that's not who you are, you know, by any stretch.

If anything, man, I'm thankful for all those hardships because they sharpened me as a man and as a person. And, you know, the best way to fucking learn shit is just by making big mistakes, bigger than mistakes, you know, you're going to learn. And, you know, if you can even try to understand the level of all the feelings I was feeling, embarrassment, know, shame, anger, you know, trapped and, you know, I never.

you know, if I can stop it, let that happen in any part of my life ever again, you know, not just in a fingerboard company. So it's all good in the end, man. Like life goes on. I'm very thankful for the people like you who, who, you know, are able to tell me that the Joyco had like impact on you or, you know, everybody. And it means a lot to know that like, yeah, that it did have some sort of effect on the scene at the time. And that was the point, man. That was just the whole

That was the goal. Cause this is when Instagram was kind of, this is when Instagram first had like 15 second videos. And literally it was like, whoa, you can do that now here. And we were posting these little 15 second edits on Instagram. And I remember, I'll never forget that it was when people were starting to use hashtags a lot and post fingerboard clips. And I remember like posting the hashtag fingerboarding and it was like, it, it'll tell you how many total hash posts of that there are.

I remember they saying like something like, there's 4,000 tags that say finger boarding. What? That was all at the time? Dude, are you kidding me? Like there's millions of that by now. It's like, it's gotta be. So, you know, it's just like, ⁓ yeah, it's just a different time in that scene. And when I left, it was changed a lot. And I hope I just contributed some good of that, you know? Even if I didn't, I don't care, dude. I'm fucking just happy with me. I love me.

And I just want everyone to be happy too.

speaker-1 (1:07:35)
I feel that I feel that well, if it's any constellation, you're definitely a part of finger boarding history. It's almost impossible to not mention you when we're talking about the 2010 era at some capacity. Like you're definitely stamped in the books for sure.

speaker-0 (1:07:51)
That was the wild wild west of fingerboarding time.

speaker-1 (1:07:54)
It was, it was. I'm sad that I wasn't part of it, but at the same time, like looking back, like, I don't know if I would be where I'm at now if I was, I feel like coming in during COVID era was like probably the best thing for me. Cause if I was here since day one, like I don't think I would have been as far as I would have been.

speaker-0 (1:08:13)
Yeah,

yeah, you know, there's a time and a place for everything you got that you got it right with this one,

speaker-1 (1:08:19)
I appreciate that. appreciate that. Man, is there anybody you want to give a shout out to? Anybody you want to thank? Any? ⁓

speaker-0 (1:08:21)
yeah.

Yeah, I do. gotta shout out Mike Schneider really quick. And I have to tell the fucking coolest story about Mike that epitomizes how fucking amazing he is. This guy, Mike Schneider, changed my life. Let me tell you how. ⁓ One time I had been down to his spot for a couple of events and he was having a shop session one time.

And maybe even you guys, where are you located again? Chicago or something? This is this one year, it like the hottest, literally like the hottest day on record in the summer that like Boston had like a hundred years or something. But I was there for a shop session and basically like there was some confusion with my ride that I drove down. I had never flown before this in my life. Every event I had come down there, I had driven with friends. I was scared to fly. And then this one though,

speaker-1 (1:08:57)
Indiana.

speaker-0 (1:09:23)
Yeah, I came down with this girl and then she like got like all upset about something and like ditched me at like Mike's house It was like weird. I told Mike I'm like dude I'm like I think I gotta like leave now because like I have to be back by this thing on Monday and like I think the only thing is keep giving there's a train it's gonna take like three days on the train already and Then he's like training. He's like, what are you talking about? Like why don't you just fly like it's like a two-hour flight from here to Toronto and I'm like

I'm like, oh no, no, no, I can't fly. I'm like, that's insane. I'm like, I would never do that. I'm like, I couldn't even imagine. This fucking guy was like, talked me into basically was like over a few days, talked me into flying. He's like, well, why you stay, man? He's like, listen, he's like, just like, like maybe get a plane ticket. I'm like, dude, I can't even risk that. Cause what I'll do is I'll buy the plane ticket when you're hyping me up and then I'll get there and I literally leave.

I'm literally gonna get to the gate of the thing and I'm gonna turn around and run and I'm not gonna refund on my ticket. Then I'm be stuck here and out like 500 bucks or whatever. Mike Schneider bought my plane ticket for me. And he fucking, he was like, dude, how about this? I'll buy your plane ticket for you. I'll take you to the airport. You just get to stay the weekend. He's like, and from there, he's like, I'll make sure like you're on the plane. He's like, I'll literally walk you on to the, like make sure you're on the plane.

And he did, he came in and he like didn't come past like security thing, but I got on that plane and I love flying. I don't know what else to say is that I went from being a total scared never flyer to like once I landed, I was like looking up like flights to Japan and like excited to fly back to Boston again next. And like, then I started flying everywhere. I was like flying to Vancouver and Thunder Bay all over the place. It was crazy. But big shout out to Mike Schenrig. I changed my fucking life.

speaker-1 (1:11:15)
Man, that's a, I love this story. Yeah. He opened up the entire world for you.

speaker-0 (1:11:20)
Yeah, he did. He really fucking did, man. Like my mom right now lives in Costa Rica and I gotta say, like, if it wasn't for him, I probably would be like, yeah, good luck. I'm never coming to see you, mom. No, I love that shit now. And yeah, I'm forever in debt to him because he took like three days straight of fucking like talking to me like a baby about this fucking thing. Like a grown man, he's like sitting here explaining to me that there's nothing bad about the plane. You don't have to be scared.

It felt like it just like a fucking big skateboard trick, which is what I loved. It's like you're running off and then you just take off and you're flying through and you just hope you fucking land and don't die, man. And then, so I vied with that heart. was like, this is the gnarliest skate trick. Big shout out, Mike. In fact, that's, and we shout out Ricardo, that's it. Fuck, there's so many people, Zach, people I haven't talked to in a long time, fucking Scott, John, I'll shut them out. I don't give a shit, fucking.

Everybody mad I said, everybody Simon the red wolf dude fucking all these guys. ⁓ yeah.

speaker-1 (1:12:24)
Yeah, man. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast for sure. Definitely. Let me know in the comments. This is a top five episode, top five episode right here. We've got like a hundred and probably 150 episodes underneath our belts. That's pretty big honor.

speaker-0 (1:12:41)
That would be huge. We'll have to see. Hopefully it doesn't make the bottom 10.

speaker-1 (1:12:45)
I think people love you to some capacity.

speaker-0 (1:12:48)
Thanks, man. Well, I know you do and there's a couple of people out there, so that's all I need.

speaker-1 (1:12:53)
Fair enough. You can find me at USAFBL on all platforms. If you're watching this on our Patreon account before anybody else, thank you, thank you, thank you for all the love and support. Till next time.

speaker-0 (1:13:05)
Thanks a lot, Levi. It was good talking to you, Peace.

speaker-1 (1:13:07)
Same, same.

speaker-0 (1:13:33)
Take tight, I'm soaring like a bird Every trick or story, every slotted word Climbing on the edge, I'm breaking the mold Fingerboardin' dreams worth their weight in gold Hear the wheels as they scream In the stink of

speaker-1 (1:13:47)
Morning

TV!

speaker-0 (1:13:50)
Fighting free!

speaker-1 (1:13:52)
You

Yeah

speaker-0 (1:14:04)
They park uptown

as they scream in this finger-burning dream I'm flying free

speaker-1 (1:14:39)
you