Manufacturing, Wheels, and the Future of Fingerboarding | Wysocki Wheels | S4 E147

On this week’s episode of the podcast, we welcome a very special guest, Keelan from Red Wolf Fingerboards, Wysocki Wheels, and 1-800 Fingerboards!

We dive into Keelan’s nearly 20-year journey in fingerboarding, from starting Red Wolf, to becoming one of the most respected manufacturers in the scene. We talk about wheel formulas, durometers, shapes, and why true manufacturing knowledge matters more than hype. We also get into the evolution of fingerboarding events, pre- and post-COVID growth, brand acquisitions, burnout, scaling production, and what the future of fingerboarding really looks like.

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Transcript

speaker-0 (00:35.878)
to the podcast.

Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Man, it has been a hot minute since you've been on. I think the last time you were on was about two years ago, episode 29.

Yeah, I believe that was... was it 2023?

Yeah, it's been a hot minute. I feel like I should have definitely had you on the pod way before now. Like two years is kind of crazy for a recap.

speaker-1 (01:04.354)
Yeah, it's crazy, but you know, life's busy, man. Life doesn't stop.

But you've been busy. know we're a couple days before Christmas, so know you're you're in the dungeon. You're in the workshop. You're actually pumping out orders and getting things done. I like it.

Yeah. you know, it's, it's a constant grind. I, I worked, I still work a normal nine to five job. Well, I should say like, what do they call that? Like, well, it's a full four, four to three. don't know. It's a full, actually four, four, to four or four to 10, whatever, you know, five, four days a week. You know, can't even think. What day is it? Monday? I think it's Monday. I'm up from 3 a.m. working till 7 30.

Yeah, I think it's Monday too.

speaker-1 (01:45.038)
8 p.m. at night every three to four days a week, which doesn't sound like a lot, but then on top of, you know, a family and everything else.

That's hard, man. You've been, like I said, you've been busy, you've been busy with work, you've been busy producing some of the best wheels on the market. You've actually started a new company before you even get into all that. let's kind of introduce the public who may not know who you are. Like, you know, who's Keelin? Like, tell us your background story, when you got in and when that started and what that looked like.

So officially like in I launched Red Wolf fingerboards in April of 20 20 well 2007 but yeah April 2007 I don't know official date sometime in April when I was 11 Probably it's been so long. I just know next year will be like 20 years and it's pretty crazy to think about that

simple YouTube search when I was 11 has shifted my whole life to being Essentially like doing this like you know in my free time. This is what I do. This is what I enjoy and it's It's kind of like one of those you know like if you didn't do it What would you be doing right now? I couldn't tell you because the reason I do what I do for a living is because I wanted to learn how to make fingerboard goals and I wanted to learn how to do all those things like

You can pay somebody to to manufacture your mold. You can pay somebody to make your products. You can pay anyone to do anything really. But at the end of the day, I was like, that's cool. But I want to know how it's done and how you do it. Because at the end of the day, if you take a product that you have and you launch it and you're not, you know, you could be the designer, but you're not the manufacturer. So you don't know how to make fine tweaks and make things that are precise.

speaker-1 (03:42.054)
You don't really have that full 360 aspect of saying like, okay, well this is a problem and I can go back through my checklist and say, okay, I got to do this to fix this. And I'm not saying some people don't, but a lot of this community now seems to be like a, well, I can start a fingerboard. If I have 20 grand, I can start a fingerboard company and be successful. Yeah, you can. But at the same time, in my opinion, you're not a manufacturer. You're just a reseller.

could see that. A lot of times people think they can kind of buy their way in. A lot of people would argue that I kind of did the same. Oops, I the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet. But the reality is it's like you still have to come in with that grind. You still have to build that expertise, those connections and that network.

100 % it's not like like there's two aspects to it. It's more so if you want to consider it like my whole thing wasn't

I guess it wasn't ever it wasn't ever like let me make a dollar It was wow This is like really cool like I want to know how to make it and I want to know how to design it I want to know I want to know every step in the process and then it kind of been what it turned into like a whole I can sell this and people will buy and people enjoy this product because there are different aspects like if you look at it like some people really enjoy Fingerboarding for finger boarding and that's what they do They fingerboard some people enjoy finger boarding because they really enjoy designing and you know, maybe manufacturing products

Some people can design a product and have it manufactured, and then other people can do the full swing of it, which is totally fine. I guess it just, for me, just depends on, I'm just one of those people, I wanna know every step in the process, how it's done, and I kinda take a pride in that.

speaker-0 (05:21.822)
I can definitely tell I've had a few of your decks and I can tell you like the craftsmanship for Red Wolf is absolutely impeccable. It's they're amazing. And I know doing these for literally almost 20 years. I mean, you've got 20 years of deck making experience underneath your belt. That's something that like you can't buy that. I mean, you earn that. That's crazy.

Thank you.

speaker-1 (05:40.91)
Well, and that's kind of like the other thing is like I tell people is knowledge is so much power. If you know how to do something, you're way more valuable. Like for instance, my strong suits aren't marketing. Other people have strong suits with marketing and some people have strong suits with business. My strong suit is like, I would say where manufacturing is because that's where I drove most of my energy at the very beginning was, okay, how do I make a wooden fingerboard? How do I make it better, faster and more efficient?

all those steps in the process to get a finished product. For me personally, that's just what I enjoy. Like there's people that, you know, I would say there's a good place for everybody in this community and it's, you know, you can all be a part of finger boarding and you can all enjoy certain aspects of it.

Well, I feel like finger boarding is for everybody, but the different angles of finger boarding that people come in at is where the most interesting things that I've came across during my journey is like a lot of people, you know, they finger board for fun. Some people are like, I finger board to get sponsored. Some people are like, I finger board to be the best. Some people are like, I do it because I have ADHD and it just helps me just kind of just, you know, relieve some of those mental.

just barriers, like there's just so many different like little angles of it. And then you have people that are like, I'm an artist. Like I made decks just because I want to showcase my art. Obstacles and things of that nature. They're like more of the creative type. And so like, it is very interesting to see like all the different types of people and what angles of finger boarding that they take with them.

It is for everybody because there are people who I've met at events and I'm like, you're here with your kid? They're like, no, no, I'm here for you. I'm like, that's cool. Like there's no age limit at all. It's, it's literally for everybody. You know, you can be in a wheelchair, you could not walk or you can be just be in your thirties and your forties and say, you know what? I can't afford to get hurt. have a family or just in general, you know, I can't afford to get hurt and not be able to financially support myself.

speaker-0 (07:36.504)
think in our country you just can't afford to get hurt, period, regardless of your s-

that's true you know you get hurt you could you could lose everything if you get hurt at the end of the day

So I shout out to all the risk takers out there in the streets, like just literally skateboarding it up for sure.

I mean, I will say do I skate anymore? No. Did I used to skateboard? Yeah, but currently like with the way my life is there's there's no way I could afford to break an ankle or break a wrist or do anything like that and I know there's there's some finger boarders out there and I think you could tell who I'm talking about where it's like you're not strictly skateboarding you're not about the scene, you know, you're about this like it's kind of like to me it's like well, it's a fingerboard company skater made or how would you put that?

skaters that fingerboard, there's skaters that are skaters only, and then there's fingerboarders that only fingerboard, but they don't skate.

speaker-1 (08:25.934)
Right, but then there's those people that are like, I'm a skateboarder and a fingerboarder and that makes everything better. And I'm like, that's cool. Like that's cool. Like awesome. That's, you know, it there's almost like so much division in this scene to where it's like, Oh, if you're not all about it, you're not like, you're not about that life. You're not, you know, you're about it at all. And that's kind of drives people away from you in an aspect where it's like, I'm sorry, I'm not able to skateboard or I'm sorry. I'm not able to, take that.

health risks to do that and you know some people might call you you know they might they might say you're a pussy or whatever but it's like the people like the people i've met 99 of them everyone's really cool like they come from all walks of life and at the end of the day like we all come to bond over a little piece of you know a little skateboard

It's kind of crazy. mean, I've seen parents get into like dads, they'll get into finger boarding because their kids are in the skating and finger boarding. And I've seen tons of cases of that during my travels and stuff like that. I've seen people like I'm, I'm not even a skater, which I wish I kind of was, but I mean, it's one of those things like, you know, we all have different walks of life. It's, can be a skater, a hardcore skater and fingerboard. You can be a fingerboarder only. I think a lot of the younger kids nowadays, they

are kinda coming up the same as me where they're not really seeing the benefits of skating and taking those health risks and those injuries and stuff like that and so it's there's kind of like a divide amongst like even the younger generation coming up into fingerboarding where a lot of them don't even skate and so more that we push those narratives it's gonna eventually hurt the community especially from

It doesn't benefit it like it doesn't like it's like saying well if you don't tre flip Well, you can't hang out with me for an example. It's it's kind of it's nonsense Because it's like you're not a skater. You're not a real fingerboard. You're not about that life Well, it's like there's people that race RC cars. Do they race NASCAR's? No, there's so much freedom where people people make it their life and Congratulations for them, but not everyone you know is full like there's people that finger boarding is just like a

speaker-1 (10:36.846)
past time ADHD hobby where they do it when they're at work or when they're sitting at their desk and they put it down and then they go live their life. And then there's people like us where it's like with everything about it, it is a second job. It is a second job. It's a hobby and it is a life.

I'm liking the fact now that there are a growing amount of people that identify as a finger border, which I feel like pre-COVID, that was never a thing. Like nobody pre-COVID really identified themselves as a finger border. And I think now as we start to continue into like 2026 and stuff, like people are actually starting to identify as a finger border, which is kind of crazy in its own way.

Pretty interesting to see. I would say, you know, jumping off of that whole like 2020 thing and people coming out more, being more open about it. I can say in the southern Wisconsin area, just within 30 minutes of me, I know 10 people that fingerboard. And five years ago, I didn't know anybody. Like it's more so, you know, like we've talked about like growth in the scene where it's just, it's going up, it's going up, it's going up.

And the question is, is it at its peak right now or isn't it? I think we've spoke about this off camera where it's like, oh, it's at its peak and it's going down. But I also, I've started to think, I don't think it's at its peak. I think it just took a little dip. And I don't know whether that has to do with politics or, you know, current events going on in the world where it's not a, it's a hobby for 99 % of the people. So, oh, it goes on the back burner or, you know, like one of the biggest things is summertime. Summertime is genuinely slower because

People aren't home, people are out and about doing things.

speaker-0 (12:13.026)
Yeah, finger boarding. don't think finger boarding is at its peak. I do a lot of trading, stock trading, crypto trading, stuff like that. Anybody that does any of those things knows that like

Nothing is like a straight line to the moon. Like there's just these curves that go up and down, up and down. I feel like right now finger boarding is on a slight down curve, but we're getting ready to get a resistance floor. And then I feel like we're going to shoot back up to the moon again, April, May of next year. I think like it's going to be on like gangbusters. I feel like we're in a weird spot where finger boarding, cold weather, politics, government.

money's tight holidays. It's just a weird kind of a transitional period. And I think that the peak of finger boarding will continue to keep peaking. Right. No, it's not going anywhere for sure. I mean, we don't age out of finger boarding. We can age out of skateboarding, but 20 years from now, like you can always pick up a finger board and get back into it. And so, right. Fingerboard will ever go away because of that. But I feel like there would definitely be stages of finger boarding. And I know you being in the industry for.

It's definitely not going anywhere.

speaker-0 (13:17.816)
this long, like you've seen ups and downs along the way as well.

Yeah, for sure. I I if I remember correctly and don't quote me on the date exactly I remember like from 2013 to like 2017 It was it you if you saw it then you wouldn't know it but looking back you can see okay It was on the up because there were there weren't as there definitely was not as many events But the popularity with instagram drove it up

to where now I go on TikTok and I see people finger boarding and I can, I can scroll on TikTok at any given night and find five people live streaming, finger boarding.

That's an interesting take. Instagram gave fingerboarding a boom back in 2013-2017. Oh yeah.

Cause it was, we were just on forums, like with the way I remember it. there was FFI of course, then there was, fingerboard HQ and then there was a little bit on Facebook, but then it pretty much went from fingerboard HQ and it was just like one day I never logged back on and I was just Instagram. And that definitely, speaking to people that definitely was like, yeah, I found it on YouTube or I found it on Instagram. Like no one.

speaker-0 (14:25.07)
Hmm.

speaker-1 (14:33.664)
No one in the past five years was like, I found it from a forum. Because it doesn't exist.

What do we call Reddit? Is Reddit more, are we considering Reddit to be a forum? Is that what we're considering still?

I don't know. I don't really use Reddit. you know, I know what it is, but like at the same time, like I don't.

I know, it's kind of a- Reddit's a weird place. Reddit's definitely a weird place, but I think if we were to say... ...forms were dead, I think it just transitioned into Reddit.

that's a good way to look at it because I would say like Reddit's like it took the place of all the other forums because Reddit has so many like categories and everything like that.

speaker-0 (15:15.32)
the superstore of forums basically.

Pretty much, like it took, it did take that whole place of, know, I'm sure there's forums still. You can ask Reddit anything and you can get an answer or you'll find an answer that somebody already wanted to know.

Man, all right, so tell me about the events. know as a person that organizes and helps mentor events, like post-COVID, like the event scene has just been going like gangbusters, but tell us a little more about the event scene before COVID. Like what did that realistically look like?

Before COVID, you know, obviously there were flat face events rendezvous 20 2013 2014 2015 there were a lot of events There was like Battle of the Beast, know, like these are I guess I don't want to leave people's events out These are just the events that I can remember So like there was like West Coast like there was stuff popping in California though that was popping off there was like sorry for fingerboards events in 2015

Yeah.

speaker-1 (16:15.706)
Chris from beast pants did like battle of the beasts. there was, IFC in Chicago, which was, from the episode with Mark Markovoff. There was, you know, there was, they did the first one I ever went to and it was the last one was IFC 2014. And that was a whole two day event on a soccer field and indoor soccer field. There was, airflow rails, Dave Smith who ran airfield airflow rails at the time.

He would do a tour. So he went completely sponsored, you know, paid for the whole tour himself. He would go all the way like up the East coast and do tour stops in cities. And, know, you'd get 15 to 20, 30 people at one event and he would, the next day he'd be in a totally different state, a totally different city doing it during the summer.

A USFPL before USFPL. Batman, your ideas are the best!

But hey, I just said that that's that you know pretty much you know there was there's obviously events in different countries But I'll just speak on America

Yeah, I'm gonna have to find there. I've seen some of his stuff, but I came in too late to really even be able to...

speaker-1 (17:25.678)
Dave will drop stuff, I don't know if he does anymore because he runs a full-time business, but he'll drop stuff every so occasionally just for fun.

Man, yeah see some of the stuff on the secondary market every now and then and they're like, I mean, prices on that stuff is crazy.

He makes great rails. It's not to offend anybody, but they're not Chinese put together rails. They're crafted and manufactured really well. They hold up. It's not just... It's quality material.

No, I feel that for sure. All right. So Red Wolf started when you were 11. So 11 year old Keelan would be proud of. I don't know how you're old now, but definitely current day.

I'll be 30. Well, no, I am 30. I'll be 31 next year.

speaker-0 (18:11.756)
Right on, right on. Man, I should have done the math, I don't know why. But yeah, so 19 years basically into making fingerboards. When did Wasaki Wheels come into play? When did the whole wheel making journey start?

we officially launched in June of 2015 and it was all based. It was all based off of, IFC 2014. So in the summer of 2014, I went to IFC. Me and my dad flew out to Chicago at the time and we went down there. And then, I remember being at the event and there was somebody walking around and was like, does anyone have wheels for sale? Does anyone have wheels for sale? was like, sorry, no. You know, I got decks and I had some like shaped tech tech trucks. And it got me thinking, I was like.

We need, you know, at the time there was substance wheels, there were flat face wheels, were Winkler wheels, you know, there was Nollie wheels. There was definitely a lot smaller market for wheels back then. Again, like I tell everybody, I started Googling things like how are skateboard wheels made? You know, how can I take that? How can I miniaturize it? How can I, how can I do it myself? And through trial and error, I figured it out. You can go on Google and look up Wysocki wheels and find some really old photos from 10 years ago.

of wheels I made and they don't look anything like they do now. Like, so the progress, you know, I got receipts for everything.

sure the history is crazy. I mean, you're talking 10 years in the making, right? So kind of walk us through just the buyer's guide for the wheels, the different shapes, the different formulas, grippiness, smooth, like just the whole profiles, guess, of those if someone was looking to buy someone's socket wheels off you.

speaker-1 (19:47.022)
So as far as formulas, I have a 60D and then I have a 65D. Currently, as of December 2025, the 60D has been more popular. It's a softer wheel. It has better grip. It's more of like a... I would say people are not finger boarding on like wooden parts as much. I shouldn't say that. The 60D is a great alternative if you like smooth, know, grippy, kind of squishy wheels.

And that's what's popular right now. So at the end of the day, like I do a 60 D and a 65 D, a 65 D being obviously harder, less popular. So we have those two hardnesses. And then I currently have four shapes. I've got a, I've got a conical 8.1 millimeter shape. Then I've got a skate wide shape that is a center set bearing. And that is 5.1 millimeters wide and 7.5.

five millimeters in diameter. Then I have a basic shape, which is 7.3 millimeters and it's a side set bearing. So for those that I didn't realize, you know, being in this for so long, people come in and they're like, what's the difference? I don't know how well you'll able to see this, but on a center set bearing, you can run the wheel universally either way. On a side set wheel, it fits in particularly one way and that's, you know, the bearing is set to the side. It's not running on the center.

of the wheel. There's the conical, the skate shape, or the skate wide shape, the skate shape, the basic shape, and then the skate wide 6.8 millimeter, which is the same as the skate wide, just smaller. The newest two are the conical 8.1 millimeter and the skate shape 7.5 millimeter, which both of those are side set.

Okay, okay. Weird question. And I'm sure a lot of the fans and people on the pot are probably going to wonder, how does someone know based off of like, so like you say like 65 D, how does someone know if that wheel is harder than a 60 D and there's like a 60 a and all the other stuff? Like how, like if someone's looking for a harder wheel or a softer wheel, like what do they need to be looking for as far as those letters and what they mean?

speaker-1 (22:05.518)
So as far as that goes, scaling for hardness scales or for everything, the D scale runs differently than the A scale and so does the B scale. I used to run off the A scale and it really hurt, not hurt me, but it confused people. So I believe it was earlier in 2025 I switched to the D scale just so it could be more universally understood so people were like, okay, I have 60D JoyCults. If I get some 60D Wysocki wheels, that's going to be the same.

Far as like because I think what pyros are 65d so it's a harder wheel how you're gonna know exactly You're gonna have to go up based off the manufacturer what what what they're telling you? Obviously a 60d is gonna be softer considerably versus like a 65d where it's gonna feel more like a plastic but of course like a 70 a 70d is gonna basically feel like a plastic wheel so the

The higher the number, the harder the wheel.

Yes, but then that the confusion goes as well as that's 60 D or 68 and obviously if it was if it was If it was a 60 a versus a 60 D It would be like a gummy bear because a 60 a 60 D on the a scale is right around 95 a to 100 a and it really cuts off at 99 when you see skateboard brands Say like 101 a or like, you

It's kind of more much more of an exaggeration to say it's just a little bit harder than a hundred day. So like a hundred day would be comparable to a 65 D and a 99 a is more comparable to a 60 D. You see how like confusing that is. Cause no,

speaker-0 (23:48.738)
know, even I've been messing around with like buying other people's stuff and I'm still kinda confused on it. I'm like, I need to ask someone who knows. I'm like, Keeneland's

The other problem is if you don't have a durometer tester and you're not actively testing your durometer and just going off of whatever mixtures you buy, you're, you know, there's to get to be lightly with it, making wheels, there's so many factors. you know, there's the supplier for your product. There's whether there's moisture in the air, there's whether if you add too much pigment, there's so many factors that go into it where you can take a 65 D.

And it could be a 60 D wheel because you added too much pigment to it or you mixed it improperly or there was moisture in the air. And that's where like, try to focus mainly on quality control in that aspect and really honing in on that. Cause it's like, I'm trying to offer a consistent product, whether you buy it today or next week, just for like a prime example.

Yeah, no, the consistency is key. Yep. Man. Okay. So I feel like someone needs to make a chart that basically converts like the A series versus like the D series and what that will

There are charts you like my best advice the the difficult again or the difficult part of When you when when I test like the hardness of a wheel, I don't test the wheel per se I make I pour a blank where it's large enough to where I can test it because you know these wheels are tiny and probing a wheel isn't gonna it isn't gonna read the same when you probe like a You know a one-inch cylinder test pour

speaker-1 (25:29.784)
I feel like I'm speaking like mumbo-chumbo like wait hold on what are you saying?

now, I'm finding all this really interesting because like I said, we, lot of people, there's a lot of information out there as far as like, you know, how to make finger boarding decks, like that. But like, there isn't a lot of information as far as like wheels, what the, even like the geometers, the diameters, like, I mean, just the different street styles, conical, I mean, like there's so much.

We understand general shapes, but we don't know really like how that interacts with fingerboards. we don't, mean, there's not like a lot of information out there as far as that stuff goes. Like you're in a weird pocket of the, you know, fingerboard supply chain where there isn't a lot of information on it. Like as far as like how that makes your ride feel, how the pop, you know, just bowls are, you know, the space between like a bowl shaped wheel going against the deck and the clearance and things. There's just so much that goes into it. Right.

Well, and that's kind of what I was trying to get at more So is like it's difficult to say like one company sells a 60t. Is it gonna be the same as another company? No, not not not exactly like that's why I tend to tell people like well you should really try that product because The metaphor that it could be easily used to understand it is if you've ever played a telephone game You say one thing if they're getting and then by the end of it, it's completely different. So

my feeling of a soft wheel could be different than your feeling of a soft wheel. That could even go deeper to say me manufacturing a wheel with a specific color or pigment, it might not feel exactly the same as a different color wheel. It'll still be, you know, we'll set a tolerance for how you measure that 60D and then you'll say, okay, this is 60D or is this 65D, you know.

speaker-0 (27:09.87)
Man, is, this is a, I learned a lot in the last like 10 minutes or so. This is pretty interesting stuff for sure. All right. So walk us through 1-800 finger boards. This is the newest addition to the Wasaki wheel family for brands. Like what's going on with that? Why did you create it? Tell us the main kind of tell us all about

So the main reason for creating it was to be more simplistic it was Hey, what's your website 1-800 fingerboards calm you can you can you can type it in with the dash or without the dash? You're gonna get to the same place Mark it. That's where I'm kind of touching more base and bases on marketing It's if you told somebody a long URLs are gonna be like nine times out of ten They're gonna forget it if I walk away saying hey 1-800 fingerboards. Oh simple

Okay, okay.

I you know, I kind of part of my thing is also kind of like slight hints at the 90s, know infomercials Oh 1-800 1-800 you got mail or like what it would be like, you know how there was so many like 1-800

Yeah, by far. Everybody had a... You picked your name based off of the keystrokes or whatever. Like, it's like, all right, your phone number is already based off of like what it spells. It's interesting. Now we've got it to where like it's all the same number. It's like 1-800-555-5555. Right.

speaker-1 (28:32.558)
right Which in this case, it only really worked out for, you know, I don't know what 1-800, what fingerboards would dial into. Who knows? Maybe I need to buy that too. But at the same time, it's, it's, it's merely just like a homage to the nineties to being located 1-800 fingerboards. It's much easier than saying red wolf, FBS.com.

on the chat.

speaker-0 (28:56.369)
it's catchy, I agree, I agree.

Also, one of the main factors was not just being identified as one brand, but brands within a brand. So for example, I have Red Wolf Fingerboards, I have Wysocki Wheels, I have Division Fingerboards, I have Maze Fingerboards now. Like there's Dust and Grind Concrete, like there's so many sub-brands within that one brand to where for marketing purposes it's easier to 1-800-Fingerboards.

Alright, well you just dropped a huge bombshell. so... What's up, Al? You just dropped a huge bombshell. Alright, so talk to me about the Maze Fingerboards, because I didn't realize that the transition for that went over to you. And same with Homewood, which is kind of crazy to me too.

Closet.

speaker-1 (29:41.838)
So, Homewood not transitioned over to me. It's gonna be sold through 800 Fingerboards. I work closely with Justin that owns Homewood Fingerboards. So I'll be the main distributor for them. Also helping manufacture those two. But I kinda can't really speak too much upon that. Cause it's been like the biggest teaser for the past. Like we've been working on it since 2019 and that's a whole podcast.

Yeah, no, I feel that. definitely had that.

Consider like me signing a, what was that a? Yeah, an NDA pretty much, but not that serious. But as far as like Maze fingerboards, so Maze was ran by Adam out of Minnesota. And I've known Adam personally for, gosh, at least since 2017. So he's been a good friend since then. And recently he didn't want to make boards anymore. And I was like, hey, with all due respect, do you if I carry it on? He's like,

End of day.

speaker-1 (30:40.182)
I'd be honored and he pretty much just was like, man, I'd love for you to take this not word for word, but it's kind of how it felt. was like, okay, yeah, I'd love to keep this going because what he created was awesome. And, if you've ever seen Adam on a fingerboard, it

He's good. He does the rail spin thing. He's like one of the first person.

Can't even like like I would sit there probably all day just just to get get that and then be frustrated like I don't know how the man does it he has a gift

He showed me I've had the opportunity to meet him a couple times. He's been he sponsored our 2021 season one tour and I think 2022 as well and then he's been at our Shop in Indianapolis back when it was open and stuff. So I've had the opportunity to meet him There were definitely definitely besties I forgot he usually comes in with Bailey and then someone else comes down with him every time. Yes with shoves. Yeah, Josh shoves. Shove at the man's

the

speaker-1 (31:34.732)
Yep.

memory lane right there.

Yeah, they, I've known, I've known those guys probably pretty much since the same time. I think I met them at one of the Minnesota meetups and you know, it just kind of clicked from there. So it's almost 10 years.

Man, that's crazy. Okay, so 1-800 fingerboards is, I guess, is it going to be more like the umbrella and like everything falls underneath it? So that's how everything's going to be structured. So you have all of these cool things that you got. You're, you're kind of up there with Mike Snyder. You guys are out here just collecting infinity stones for, for brands.

Yeah, I mean, if it is kind of like it's uncoincidental because you know, I think he's acquired what two brands this year three

speaker-0 (32:19.266)
two that I'm aware of blister trucks and ducky decks, which is, I mean, that's a, that's a powerful matchup for flat face. mean, you're talking about decks and wheels through flat face, then you got trucks with blistered and then you got ducky tape and ducky decks. So mean, like it's like a full circle. I mean, this is a teach a cool like acquisitions going on there for sure.

yeah, it's it. I mean, there's so many brands, like for example, like Ducky Decks and blister that they, know, their brand is so significant and they're out there, but maybe they just don't have it them anymore. And I think it's great that they are like, okay, you know, however they work things out behind doors is like, you know, not our business, but I think that's awesome that they keep that going because you know, you could leave the scene a year ago and be like, where's Ducky Decks or where's where's bliss, you know,

and they don't, like, it's preserving those companies.

No, I agree. I mean, it's important to keep some of these larger brands and stuff like that around, even at some capacity. But I feel like people are coming into the scene and they want to do cool stuff. And then their priorities or their life changes and like they're just not able to keep that same momentum moving forward and stuff like that. I feel like, you know, people start families, they get married, they might move. I mean, just life circumstances kind of kind of get in the way as far as,

or even burn out some people are like I was cool for the first two or three years and then he just kind of got burned out needed to step away kind of a thing well

speaker-1 (33:52.27)
I guess I could touch on that. Touching on avoiding burnout, know, to avoid burnout, my best advice is take a break. if you make an announcement that you're burnt out pretty much, you're gonna lose all of your hype and all of your consistency. So don't do that. Take silent breaks, you know, because most people, including myself, started this off as just a hobby. Like it was just fun.

and then there's those brands that start off as a hobby and then they blow up and it becomes very overwhelming and we've seen that many times. It happens, it will always happen and people just basically become bigger than themselves and are unable to manage that. So at the end of the day, they just like, why better stop?

think that's the worst case scenario is coming out of the gate, super hyped and not being able to manage it. I think that's like, it's one thing to come out and then you're scaling, you know, mentally, physically and getting all your systems in place to be able to scale to a high level. And there's one thing to come out of the gate at a high level than not being able to fulfill all these orders. Cause a lot of people are like, yeah, dude, I'm going to be for your deckmaker. You're to be like, yeah, like I would love to have, you know, like 50 or a hundred deck sales a week. And I'm like,

Most people can't handle 50 to 100 deck sales a week. Like most people can only handle five or 10 deck sales a week. And so it's one of those like even if you're already a deckmaker and you're doing 10 or 15 deck sales a week, getting to a 50 deck sale a week like that would break most people like they can't scale to that level. And it's like you've got to you got to kind of scale at your own pace. And I feel like starting from the bottom, your way up is the only real efficient way to getting to that point.

I think if we go back to talking about community growth and getting to a place where you know We just recently saw a company have a selling an official licensed product from skateboarding Which is huge not like not like you know obviously there's tech tech selling Skateboard graphics on finger on tech decks, but like we're talking like a genuine fingerboard company selling a licensed product

speaker-0 (35:53.976)
We're just gonna go out and say it. You're gonna beat around the bush. We're gonna go out and say it. Yeah, the Joy-Con Indie Truck.

The Joycold trucks? The Joycold and the Panatrucks. Like, that is awesome. Like, I'll be honest with you, I first messaged him and I was like, is this like an April Fool's joke? Because I didn't believe it. But the aspect and the scale of it is surprising, but it's not that surprising because I feel like it's long overdue. But this is where it all ties in is, you you have these companies that start off and they grow, they grow, they get to a certain point and they can't grow no more because they can't keep up with demand.

what we need in this community to grow more is more manufacturing and it's not per se being like well you need to do this or that but you do need to start producing more for this scene to get to a higher level. Having a licensed product is a big thing for fingerboarding but for other hobbies and stuff it's not it's not really that big like it's just a norm.

Well, there's two things that I want to add to this conversation that happened that I do like and didn't like. The first thing that I do like about this collab is the fact that every single person who wanted a set of trucks is able to literally get a set of trucks. Like it wasn't like, we dropped like a limited set of 50 and like they're sold out and then no one's ever getting another set of trucks again. Like

Anybody anywhere as far as I'm concerned was able to get a set of trucks. I don't think anybody was trying to buy a set and was unable to actually acquire a set of trucks.

speaker-1 (37:19.052)
Well, and that's, that's the most important part is being able to have a supply and demand for that. we're, we're, I'm going take, I'm not going to name any names, but where you see companies where, where I think you're not going to see hype brands anymore is once you start seeing manufacturing go up, because again, if you're selling, you've got a deck, a brand and you can only make, let's just say for each drop, you're doing 30 decks.

and you got 200 people wanting something, okay, yeah, you're gonna drive it up and it's gonna look bigger than it actually is. And what I've noticed from some of these brands, they're going up, but their manufacturing is also going up. So it's kind of like, you kind of look back and say, how many boards were you actually producing first? know, were you actually selling 100 boards then or are you now just physically reaching that point of you're able to keep up with that demand?

And you can go now, you know, depending on wherever you live. If you live near a heavily populated fingerboard area, like the West coast, where you can go to slush colt and you can get this deck or you can get that deck. And it's kind of sad to see, but it's also so great to see because while I think, you know, the quote unquote hype product is great. I think it also does separate people because it kind of drives that whole like.

supreme aspect of it where oh you have a supreme shirt or you have a supreme belt or you know there's only 300 of these made and for some aspects some people like that some people collect and that's like the coolest thing but for me personally as somebody that doesn't collect per se to the aspect of I'm gonna buy this because everyone else does the secondary fingerboard market is pretty crazy you know you can see a set of lab wheels go from being what were they what are they like 50 60 bucks to 100 yeah

Or you can see, you can see like a pre-deck go for like a hundred. You can see there are so many people that just buy and buy, buy all they can to resell it. You know, I don't know where I'm going with that precisely, but it's like at the end of the day, like I don't foresee in the next five years of if, if more people are manufacturing more, the scene will grow. You will make more money, but then at the end of the day, you'll also, you won't be as hype, but there'll be more people finger boarding and it will be beneficial to everybody.

speaker-0 (39:37.838)
might have to disagree. feel like as the market gets bigger, more people are going to be in the market and there's still going to be brands, even if they scale up a little bit, there's still going to be like a lack of a lack of products. Like there's going to be more people. If you're a hype brand, especially like, know, there's going to be more people wanting your product and that company can actually produce and manufacturer. And I feel like even at a larger scale, I think the results are still going to be the same.

I mean, you can go either way.

I feel like just from an outside perspective looking in, if I can go buy this cool deck whenever I want, I feel like there's two aspects to it. Like do you drop a stock and after a day it all sold out but did it really sell out? Sometimes it really doesn't. Sometimes you have to fake it till you make it, you know? And I know several that fake it till they make it and it works.

Okay, okay, you're telling me you're airing out all the dirty laundry.

It's it's just it it's you got to just start being real with people because you know That's a whole nother topic of manufacturing and quality like we don't have a specific set of like quality standards like what values of $50 deck are you buying it because it's hyped and are you waiting? 6 to 11 months what it's almost 12 months now that people are waiting for specific Decks that they ordered last year and that's ridiculous

speaker-0 (40:39.448)
MY FACE

speaker-0 (41:07.47)
I agree 100 percent. I agree 100 percent. All right. So what what upcoming projects do you got on the books? Anything that anything you can leak leak on the pod?

It's nuts.

speaker-1 (41:23.569)
I'm pretty much upscaling just like I talked about upscaling everything more availability But as far as like new designs like got some new wheels planned out for 2026 Obviously maze fingerboards will be hopefully full swing by spring of 2026 that'll be going. Um, that's exciting. I'm gonna be offering more completes at affordable prices as far as like, you know

I've recently started distributing LeFi trucks and I really like those like that's literally you know I haven't got my JoyColt trucks yet so I don't know but as far as these trucks like I really enjoy them they're like a $15 set of trucks and I don't know if you're like me but if I lost you know $80 versus $150 I would feel a little less sad

Yeah, losing a setup is always sad. I always treat my setup as more like an avatar. So like once I'm like synced in with that avatar, it is, it's like we're one and if I lost the one, I'd be sad. Right.

met from being somebody that like man you like makes them and has them like at dispose like a dispose I can't relate but at the same time it is kind of like that you get a board and you just get that like it's You know it it could just be whether the tape is worn and just right the wheels are feeling just right the decks feeling Just right you could get another one and it just won't feel the same. It's like a good pair of basketball shoes

for sure. I shred mine for long, long periods of time. Like the wheels will be a little bit smaller because they've been worn down and like your deck graphic will also get worn down a little bit. So to weigh a little bit less and as you, literally apply more grip tape and stuff and you're standing off the sides, like you're theoretically like shaving off a little bit of the deck each time that you're re gripping. like that deck will actually weigh a little bit less. And so even if he was to replace the setup, like

speaker-0 (43:16.542)
one for one, like the weight, the size, the wheels, everything is going to be slightly off and it's not going to be the same. Yeah. Yeah.

gotta feel just right pretty much. Well, okay, here's a question for you. How often do you re-grip a deck?

Not as quickly as I need to for someone that's literally got taped just falling from the sky so Realistically, I need to be doing every week as much as I fingerboard, but I mean it's probably like every ten days every two weeks

Okay, so here's like here's my here's my shameless plug for them this deck I posted on my story recently not these wheels but this deck and everything trucks tape went through the wash machine and I'll give a shout out to black cat tape because this stuff didn't peel, know, it didn't wore up like I Knew it was in there. I was like, who cares? I'll get it out Deck didn't warp wheels were fine. Trucks were fine. The grip tape was fine. It you know, it's

To me, to me this black cat tape is where it's at.

speaker-0 (44:17.614)
Okay, okay. Shout out black cat. I'm actually more impressed about the deck now warping. That's that's crazy, man. We're talking about some leaks. You're talking about maze and yeah, you were talking about getting maze started up and what else you got going on for 2026.

Yeah, me

speaker-1 (44:36.826)
Hopefully we'll have a full launch of dust and grind concrete. I've started playing around with concrete. I mean, I've had concrete obstacles for sale in the past. And then I fully dove into it last summer. And to be frankly honest, I've just been super busy with wheels. And that's not even to be like, like, let me shamelessly plug it. Let me shamelessly hype it up. No, like it's, it's, it's the reason why I'm not able to fully produce decks to the extent I want because

Everyone wants wheels, so I'm kind of driving my main focus on that, like where I can get people wheels. Like for the month of November, I shipped the most sets of wheels I've ever shipped in a single month, which was, I think it was roughly like 170 sets, which again, for somebody new to finger boarding, maybe coming from different hobbies, that doesn't sound like a lot, but for a one person operation that is manufacturing them and doing quality controls and assembling and shipping out, that's lot to do.

for one person.

It's still crazy. That's impressive. I mean, you're talking about making quality control, packaging, getting everything shipped out. That's a lot.

Right. It's definitely not, like, to throw that in there. Like, if you think you're just gonna come in here and pop off and, like, stay, it ain't gonna happen. Because this- this community will tell you one way or another they don't like you. They'll be nice about it or they'll just be ruthless.

speaker-0 (46:03.15)
the first six months is probably the hardest for a brand new brand. That's where reality meets act like reality meets reality. Right. I think.

This is obviously like I've I'm a part of like other Scenes like not like this like, know, I frequent in like with RC cars and whatnot and I've kind of taken notes from it because like again licensed products, but those those those Hobbies are so much more obviously more profitable but there's a vast more majority of people into RC cars and into that type of type of stuff where it's not like a

Fingerboard is such a niche where you you everyone can pick it up and learn it, but it's like a yo-yo You have to take time to do it

No, I feel that for sure. Man, I know you probably got a few people you want to give some recognition out to. A shout out.

yeah, we'll give a shout out to chems fb i'm always butchering his name. He was just here recently mark of mark of is it mark of all I I don't know why it's just like my dyslexia wants to say mark and then it says you know vo mark of all from hangout ramp Yeah, see that's what I do too and I he always looks at me he always gives me a look like like I just feel like because I have such a unique name i've always grown up like like I don't

speaker-0 (47:17.39)
I always call a mark off.

speaker-1 (47:28.662)
like to butcher somebody's name.

I feel that, I've got the same, well, Vine is

I always feel bad about it. Yeah, Markoff from Hangnail Ramps and he's, you know, he's basically the guy in the Midwest, besides you, that, you know, he'll supply more parts so we can get more people into these events. And, you know, he's, he's been in it for, the dude's got a huge, huge collection. You've been, you've had the privilege of going up there to see it. I've, I've not had the privilege yet to go see it. You know, Mark's one of those guys that I met in 2014 at my second in-person fingerboard event.

overwhelming.

speaker-1 (48:00.184)
Shout out to the whole Wysocki Wheel team. I'm not gonna name you all, because there's a great deal and I don't wanna leave anybody out. Anyone else, know, you know who you are. My thing is, is you know, there's a lot of people in this community that you could talk to once, but then there's people that you can meet in this community and you can associate with them outside of fingerboarding. Like you can relate to them outside of these little skateboards. I think, you know, kind of going off on another,

side quest of there's so many great people in this community that can be completely misunderstood because they have such a passion for finger boarding where you know they they they really have a true a true calling and they really you know take you know i wouldn't say take things to heart but they really um put their all into it and they make such great products

the love and the passion in the community is definitely there for sure. Right. Man. All right. So Keelin, where can, where can people find you? Where can people find you on the internet?

Um, well, if you have Instagram, you can find me at red wolf FB on Instagram. You can find me at why Saki underscore wheels on Instagram. You can find me at a 1800 fingerboards on Instagram. Um, what else is there? You can find me on my website. Uh, we'll drop the link like right here, maybe over this way, uh, 1 800 fingerboards.com. Um, if you find my personal number, you can call me.

Right on. Well, Keelan, thanks for coming on the pod. It's been an absolute pleasure.

speaker-1 (49:29.378)
Thank you for having me and it's it's been a pleasure as well. And hopefully we can do this again in the future. I'd love to be maybe maybe I could be like a guest or you know, just not not specifically about me but just talking to others because that's one of the things like it's it's a business aside products aside. It's really like I really just love to learn people's stories and hear about them and who they are as a person and get to know them know more on a personal level not just the who's the guy posting

posting and flicking the tricks and you know, everyone's got a story. I love hearing people's stories.

That's why I do this man, it almost sounds like you need to start your own podcast.

Don't have time for that. I'll special guest with you

Sounds like a plan. Sounds like a plan.

speaker-1 (50:13.162)
Who I want to be on a podcast with you is with brian you and brian And then me and then somebody else because i'd love to just not be a fly on the wall but also like to just be able to chime in with the the history of everybody and like Being there and seeing it firsthand and being like yeah that you know I remember that or this is what I remember of that or you know stuff like that

No, that's, that's, you get it all pop with old man Brian. Okay. Okay.

Dude I tell you dude. I listen to I listen to the podcast with him I'm like this man has a voice for radio like I personally hate hearing my voice, but like I feel like when I'm listening to him It's like, you know, it's like a morning talk show almost it's like who is this guy like he sounds so cool

And then you see the video and you're like, huh, I did not picture that.

Wow.

speaker-0 (51:02.766)
Are you telling me that bitch is worth it?

Well, again, it- it's just like he's got a voice for radio.

speaker-1 (51:18.776)
See ya.

speaker-0 (51:27.19)
Spanish I was MJ status man I been straight savage look Textbooks stacked up in the classroom Rock fakie on the sink in the bathroom I could turn a countertop to a street spot Kids in the hall hitting wallies on the sheetrock Backpack had a ramp for the fingerboard A real dork

It should be a sport Now I try to be mature But it can be a chore So I'm still riding in the islet that can be a store At the bank or the hotel check-in Pull it out and bang on these hoes Yeah I'm flexing The concierge trying to get my attention Bitch wait a second while I get a quick session I was a fidgety kid before them trendy spinners Use momentum to propel, that's what I tell beginners Let it simmer, yo it takes a lot of practice But keep it up and you'll be dropping hammers with the heavy

20 years in the game, but it ain't the game Still ridin' everyday, and I ashamed Finger pop

speaker-0 (52:30.892)
trigger fingers itching I've been shooting clips better get the ammunition finger pop

speaker-0 (52:43.702)
you

speaker-0 (53:05.578)
I ain't trippin' if I lose a wheel

I keep a tucked up My knuckles start to buckle, the doc said it's early onset carpal tunnel But do I give a shit? Definitely not, yo I'm never gonna stop how we train future primitive Life is short, people say you only live once So I'm dripped up, booting hoes are with the big bucks Whether in my swim trunks or a slick tux, I keep a stick tux

Handle it with kid gloves Got a wrist full of strains and arthritic pains I don't ever rest Apex at the Himalayas This ain't nickel plated, it's a folk grip Full clip, man I'm wiping out your whole clip 20 years in the game but it ain't a game Still riding every day and I ashamed Finger pop

speaker-0 (54:03.342)
Got your girl wearing damn jeans Lady in the streets but a freak in the damn sheets Finger pop

speaker-0 (54:52.952)
Yes.