From Shame to Freedom | Journey from Addiction to Healing | Erik Frederickson

Summary

In this episode, Cecily interviews Eric Frederickson, a recovering addict, about his journey of overcoming shame and addiction. Eric shares his personal story of transformation and how God's kindness and forgiveness played a crucial role in his recovery. The conversation highlights the scandalous nature of the gospel and the power of God's love to bring about transformation and freedom. The episode also explores the topic of relapse and how God's kindness can lead individuals back to a path of healing and restoration. In this conversation, Cecily and Erik Frederickson discuss the goodness of God and the difference between mercy and grace. They explore the importance of walking with God and how His kindness leads to repentance. They also discuss the impact of the TV series The Chosen and the story of Peter's denial and restoration. The conversation highlights the purpose of serving and the significance of a morning routine. They emphasize the importance of discipline and learning, as well as the reward of taking action. They also discuss God's acceptance and love, the promise of healing and restoration, and the power of gratitude as a weapon against shame. The conversation concludes with a prayer for acceptance and freedom.

Takeaways

• God's goodness is beyond our comprehension, and His grace is scandalous.
• Walking with God requires submitting to His ways and allowing His kindness to transform us.
• God's acceptance and love are not based on our performance, but on His grace.
• Having a morning routine and being disciplined in seeking God's presence can have a profound impact on our lives.
• Gratitude is a powerful weapon against shame and condemnation.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Series Overview
• 0:31 Guest Introduction
• 1:28 Erik's Recovery Journey
• 1:40 Erik's Mission and Calling
• 7:39 Topic Introduction: Repurposing Our Shame
• 7:48 Erik's Experience with Shame
• 12:05 Encountering God's Kindness and Forgiveness
• 23:30 The Power of God's Love in Transformation
• 26:31 Relapse and God's Kindness
• 28:47 The Goodness of God
• 29:18 Mercy vs. Grace
• 30:16 Walking with God
• 30:43 Kindness Leading to Repentance
• 31:01 The Chosen

Transcript

From Shame to Freedom | Journey from Addiction to Healing | Erik Frederickson

Cecily (00:02)

Welcome to the Higher Pursuit Podcast. I'm so glad that you're joining us today. If you are looking for content that will encourage you, build you up in your pursuit of Jesus, and sometimes challenge you, then you have tuned into the right podcast. But many of you are here because you know that, and you've been following us, so thank you so much for being a faithful follower. And in case you're new here, the series that we're in right now is called Repurposing Our Pain.

And today I have the honor of being joined by a wonderful guest, Eric Fredrickson. And Eric is a 13 year drug and alcohol, well, his 13 year drug and alcohol addiction drove him to an overdose, rehabs, jails and hospitals. I have read his book, Recovering Reality, and it is an amazing book. We're gonna be talking a little bit more about that, but.

At the age of 26 years old, God stepped in and began transforming his life. And he's now been on this recovery journey for nearly 15 years. He's happily married with three young boys who are adorable. And he speaks all over the country, sharing his testimony and empowering people to walk with Jesus. So he has had his own life coaching and sober coaching practice for nearly 10 years where he works with people all over the world.

and he recently released a bestselling book that I just mentioned, Recovering Reality, Freedom from the Torment of Addiction. It's an amazing book, I highly recommend that you get it. It was a bestseller on Amazon for a while. So I'm gonna ask you an icebreaker question, Eric, because I always start off these podcasts with just something a little light and breezy. So if you and your wife could take a vacation for two,

leaving the boys home with a grandma or someone. Where? Yeah, I know, right? Especially when they're little, you just can't even imagine. Like, are we ever gonna go on vacation, just the two of us? Yeah. Oh yeah, completely. If you could go anywhere in the world and you knew the boys were cared for, where would you go and why? Why do you choose that place?

Erik Frederickson (02:01)

Sounds like a dream.

especially one still two. So it's like a very difficult age to do that. But.

Well, it's interesting because my wife and I have been talking about this lately and we're, we're beach people. So part of us would be like, well, let's just go get an Airbnb, like 20 minutes away because we live in Southwest Florida, right on the beach. Uh, we live where everyone comes to vacation, but we talked about a cruise or maybe Cancun. I mean, honestly, anywhere where we could just go and relax and.

Cecily (02:38)

Yes. So unfair.

Erik Frederickson (02:50)

be in the sun and on the beach is probably going to be good. A cruise might be fun though. I've never done a cruise. We just talked about that. We might do it soon.

Cecily (02:56)

Yeah, I haven't done a cruise either. Some people swear by it. I feel like I could be wrong, but I feel like a cruise is like a love hate thing. You either really love it, or you say, I'm never doing that again.

Erik Frederickson (02:58)

Yeah, I never have.

Well, such a weird idea. You're just on this giant boat floating in the water. It's like this, I don't know. Maybe it's a bunch of fun though. I guess I won't judge it till I've done it. We might be doing it sometime soon, so we'll find out.

Cecily (03:11)

Yeah.

There you go, there you go. Well, wherever you go, I hope you have a great vacation and I'm sure it'll be warm and sunny, so that's awesome. All right, well, we shared your bio, but who are you today? I mean, bio aside, those are the facts, but let's talk about your heart. What gets you out of bed in the morning? What mission, cause, project makes your baby jump, so to speak?

Erik Frederickson (03:26)

Thank you. Yes, it must be. We got to have it.

So that's a great question. And I appreciate you having me on. And I mean, the truth is this, it's raising people up into their calling and their identity. Everything that we do, I've seen time and time and time and time again, they're hungry, they want to accomplish something, they have some sort of dream and a little bit of passion, but they've never been connected to somebody.

Cecily (03:57)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (04:16)

or a group of people that truly gives them permission and really works to help them and empower them and teach them how to accomplish this. So I mean, the simple answer is helping people, training, equipping people and helping people step into what it is they feel like they're called to do in the recovery world. I was just talking about this earlier this morning in the recovery world. I feel like it's, it's so absent.

It's not 100% absent, but it's pretty absent. We don't attach people's recovery to their purpose. Oftentimes recovery is just simply about manage the problem, manage the problem. You're a problem, this is a problem. How do we manage the problem? How do we not go back to the problem? And when you become just focused on the problem, the problem gets bigger. Oftentimes unknowingly, just because the only thing you're focused on is the problem and managing the problem.

Cecily (04:52)

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (05:13)

But when you can

Cecily (05:13)

Right.

Erik Frederickson (05:14)

get people's recovery attached to their purpose, well, what is it, what is it trying to accomplish? What's the legacy you want to leave?

Cecily (05:17)

Yes. Right, right.

It makes me think of when I was taking driver's ed, like back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and

The driver's ed teacher said, you're gonna be really insecure behind the wheel and you're going to be tempted to look at the line on the side of the road. But don't look at that line. Look 12 seconds down the road. Look as far down the road as you can see with your eyes because if you look to the line on this side or look to the line on this side, you'll actually take your steering wheel and start driving towards that line. You drive where your eyes are looking. And that's...

Erik Frederickson (05:56)

That's good.

Cecily (05:57)

If, yeah, because if somebody doesn't have a vision, the Bible says without a vision, people perish. So if somebody doesn't have a vision, if their vision is don't drink, don't do drugs, or don't do this behavior, like right over, I would think, right into that behavior. Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (06:15)

You can do it. Don't drive over the line. Don't drive over the line. Don't drive over the line. All you're going to do is

look at the line and drift towards the line. It's a great analogy for it. And it's the truth. I saw so many things leave early in my recovery when I just stopped focusing on him. It's so counterintuitive. The world focus on the problem. What's the problem? We got to talk about it. We got to process more. What was it like in your childhood? Why was it affecting? It's like look at all you need to look at the problem long enough to acknowledge. It's there then stop thinking about it.

Cecily (06:20)

Right.

Erik Frederickson (06:43)

then it's the solution and how do we implement it. And when I just started focusing on Jesus instead of the problem and what it is, I would felt called to do early in recovery and my life transformed in a, in a dramatic way. So that would, that would really be it. Whether it's, the next book I'm already writing, whether it's the content I put together, the courses, the people I'm coaching, the trainings we do in person at churches, it's the sole purpose of it is to get you trained and equipped and raise you up into what you feel you're called to do.

Cecily (06:46)

Yeah.

That is so awesome. All right, so that's where you are now. Let's travel back in time. And so today, I neglected to say this at the top of the podcast. Today, the topic that we're talking about is repurposing our shame. And so, Eric, can you share your story? Travel us back in time to when you were...

mired in shame when you were captive and held prisoner to shame and then you know sort of frame it out for us what that was like.

Erik Frederickson (07:48)

Yeah, I love the topic and the approach you're taking on your podcast and this question and everything. You know, the truth is this, is that religion, well-meaning, one of religion's favorite currencies is shame. And I was raised in that. I was raised in...

Cecily (07:57)

Thanks.

Come on.

Erik Frederickson (08:17)

in intensely religious environment, where, you know, it was a badge of honor to deal in shame or condemnation and these different things. A lot of people unknowingly, because you only know just what you know, you're like, you only know, like, if that's the only thing you've, it's, you've seen or that's been modeled for you in your life, you're not really going to understand anything else. Of course, it's right. It's what you've been told. And the people you know, of course, aren't going to be wrong.

Cecily (08:20)

Mm.

Right.

Erik Frederickson (08:46)

Right? Exactly. And so I didn't even know that I didn't know what shame was. But if you really look at what shame is, it's being disgraced. So, disgrace, detached from grace, detached from this understanding that I'm truly forgiven, detached from this understanding of God.

Cecily (08:48)

Especially if you're the kid and they're adults.

Wow, yeah.

Erik Frederickson (09:15)

Jesus paid for this on the cross for me and he has given me an exchange which is a brand new life which is joy which is peace which is honor which is a new identity and I just grew up in an environment where that was not the case and then to add gasoline to it I didn't do anything that the environment I was raised in would tell me to do anyways, so

Cecily (09:23)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Erik Frederickson (09:38)

If you obey it, you're gonna deal in condemnation and don't break the rules or else. And then if you disobey it, it's nothing but shame and condemnation anyway. So it was a lose-lose sort of. I had wonderful parents and a good family. I don't wanna paint that picture, but the religious environment was not empowering to say the least. So then when the drugs and alcohol come on the scene and I'm rebelling intensely, you just get, you just.

Cecily (09:49)

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (10:08)

The best way I can describe it is it's a spiritual reality that plays out in the natural realm. So it's a literal like spiritual, like imagine putting on like a backpack full of rocks that are invisible. And if I'm wearing around a backpack full of rocks, that's invisible, but it's, but you can feel the weight of it. Well, it's going to affect the way I walk. It's going to affect my fatigue. It's going to affect my vision. It's going to affect, it's going to affect all these areas.

Cecily (10:14)

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Erik Frederickson (10:35)

but you can't see it with your natural eyes. So there's a spiritual reality attached to it. Darkness loves shame. If they can get you in shame and guilt, they can eat your lunch. He can just eat you alive. And he doesn't have to do much else. Just get, if I can just get him into shame and condemnation, I can do whatever I want to him. So I stayed in that place for many, many years, not knowing anything else. I mean, I, I mean, you read the book, you know, I had these very powerful encounters with God when I was young, not really knowing what, what it was other than that was definitely God.

Cecily (10:45)

Yeah, preach that.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (11:05)

But I didn't have any understanding of like who Jesus really was, who, what relationship with God really was. And so growing up, the idea was just God's the, the one that gives us all the rules and you keep them or else, and you're not going to get into heaven. And so I wasn't keeping any of the rules. So I'm detached from God, right? And that's just fee. It puts you in this place where it's just this vicious cycle. Cause you don't, you don't know anything else.

Cecily (11:05)

Mm.

Yeah, yeah.

Erik Frederickson (11:35)

And the only thing you know is keeps you in that place. So it's shame, guilt, gosh, I screwed up. I did it again. I squandered another opportunity. Like it's never gonna work for me. I have a good family. I had every chance, so on and so forth. And it's just this never ending internal conversation where you just kill yourself. You just try and kill yourself. And it was really, so I had to get out of the environment and into a new one.

Cecily (11:38)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Erik Frederickson (12:05)

And I moved from Utah, might give you some insight to what some of that was like. And then I moved to San Diego. And in San Diego, yeah, a little bit of a culture shock. I just, by default, began to seek Jesus. You know, an AA called higher power, right? So I was like, well, he sounds pretty legit. I don't want anything ever to do with religion again, the rest of my life, no thank you. But Jesus sounds pretty legit. So I'm gonna make him my higher power.

Cecily (12:23)

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (12:34)

And I'm going to wholeheartedly seek them. And what begins to take place, excuse me, is you begin to experience that it's, he's as real as the air we breathe. You begin to experience a real freedom coming to your life. You get into it all of a sudden you feel, you know, going through, um, repentance process, for lack of a better way to say it, all of a sudden shame is not the, the cloak that I'm wearing anymore.

Cecily (12:38)

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (13:05)

And the more I sought him and let him into my life, the more I experienced the reality of being forgiven. The more I experienced the reality of the cloak of shame, if that's the right way to say it, was it was lifted, it's the unseen realm. So when it lifts, it's also the unseen realm. But the evidence of it is in the scene realm, which was all of a sudden now I had peace, joy, I wasn't staring at the ground.

Cecily (13:13)

Mmm.

Yes.

Yeah.

Come on.

Yes. Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (13:35)

I wasn't regretful of everything I'd ever done. I had a new spirit in me, and I experienced the supernatural reality of being really forgiven, washed clean, feeling lighter, brighter, not carrying this on me before, and it was seen through my physical countenance and how I was then living.

Cecily (13:38)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. So we're gonna press pause for one second. For all of you listening, some of you might struggle, be struggling or know someone who's struggling with drug and alcohol addiction. And Eric is leaving out all the gory details. You can get his book to read just the sad and...

I like bereft, I guess, downward spiral of every choice. And I have a son who is a recovering addict. And I messaged Eric while I was, when I was like halfway through the book, I said, so I'm crying right now because I cannot even believe how so many aspects of your story. I saw my son walk through.

those exact same things. I mean, like for instance, there's a part in your book, Eric, where you talk about going to court again, and the shame of hearing your name called in court. And I've never actually had this conversation with my son, but I can tell you, I was almost always in the courtroom. And there's shame as a mom, when you're the one who walked in.

with that addict and you know that everybody in that courtroom is looking at your son like he is a loser and a derelict and you're the one person in the courtroom who says, but I know him. I know what he's capable of. That's my beautiful boy right there. But you know, nobody else sees him that way and he doesn't even see himself that way. And so, you know, in the book you talk so eloquently about

the circumstance and then emotionally, the shame and the regret, because in the high, everything seems like a great idea. But then of course, then there's that moment of reality and you realize, oh wow, things were bad before and now I've absolutely made them abysmally horrible and the shame and the regret that will come. And so, you know, there are all those gory details for anybody who's struggling with addiction or walking.

side by side with someone who's struggling with addiction. But everything that you just described emotionally, that's how I felt the night that I got saved, the night that I accepted Jesus. I was wearing a cloak of shame. I was wearing that backpack. I actually describe it just like that in my book, Eric, that when I accepted the Lord, I felt like somebody took 500 pound backpack off my back. I used that exact analogy. It was so crazy when I read that in your book too.

Erik Frederickson (16:26)

Hmm.

Cecily (16:36)

But so while I didn't struggle with addiction, I still had the exact same outcome from the trajectory of my sin. Things that were done to me and things that I did to myself had all, they all merged to affirm a message, a satanic accusation message that I was worthless, that I was hopeless, that

Other people could pull themselves up by their bootstraps and I was powerless to do that. I had made all sorts of resolutions that this is the last time I'm gonna drive drunk from a party, this is the last time I'm ever gonna sleep around, this is the last time I'm ever gonna do this or that. And of course I would just do it again. And so the shame became my identity. And that was the cloak I wore. And that was my identity. And the night that

I gave my life to Jesus thinking I would have to clean myself up before I came to God. That's why I was avoiding God. I also grew up in a religious environment and I thought, well, I know that you're holy and I'm far from it, getting farther and farther and farther with every month and week that goes by. So I will approach God someday when I figure out how to clean myself up. And I thought the worst thing that could ever happen to me was God and I meeting before

Erik Frederickson (17:39)

Yeah.

Cecily (18:00)

that moment happened before I had a chance to make myself all clean. And I found out that it was the best thing that could happen and that he was actually waiting for that moment for me to come to my end. So, um, I just wanted to press pause there just for all the listeners to know that shame is an equal opportunity accuser.

Erik Frederickson (18:26)

It is. And I like the way you described it as well. Cause one of the biggest things the shame wants to do is get you isolated. You're the only one struggling with this. Look at you. Look what you did again. See voice of the accuser. Why did you do it again? You're so everything you said, you're worthless. And when you're by yourself hearing that over and over and over again, you're going to, it's going to become your identity. And then when that becomes your identity, well, then you're acting the way you're supposed to be acting. Cause that's who you are.

Cecily (18:34)

Ooh, yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Erik Frederickson (18:56)

See,

it puts you in this position to believe with someone you're not. And yeah, so suicide attempt, overdose, many, many hospitals, jails, rehabs, because I had been, I was isolated and cloaked in shame believing that identity, and you're gonna act that who it is you believe you are. That's who I believed I was. So I acted like that for a very long time. And it didn't change. You know, you were talking about, you know, this, this.

idea that we have to clean ourselves up before we come to God. And that's religion. That's religion. You have to earn something from God. And I don't believe Jesus went to the cross to start a religion. I believe he went to the cross to end religion. He went to the cross to end it so that we have an access point, entrance point straight to the Father. And if we read the Bible...

Cecily (19:33)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Come on.

Thank you.

Erik Frederickson (19:52)

Our attempts at trying don't get us much of anywhere, but if we read it, we see that Jesus came down as a visible image of the invisible God, his exact representation of the Father. And his whole mission was to seek out the most broken, shameful, hurting, manipulated, tormented. He didn't go to the people who were trying to be perfect to please God.

Cecily (20:07)

Yes.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (20:16)

He went to the people who were in chains, tormented the worst of society. He sought them out to transform their lives. Those were his best friends. It's glorious.

Cecily (20:16)

That's right.

Yeah, yes. Yeah, yeah. And it was

his it was his compassion that drove him to the broken.

because I mean, when I was broken, that is what drew me. Yes, the night that I accepted the Lord, I was alone in my bedroom. I found a Bible, still don't know how that Bible got in my bedroom, it wasn't mine. And I cracked it open, it falls open. In the middle of the book is the book of Psalms and there was a pamphlet. And that pamphlet had everything broken down into categories. If you're depressed, read these Psalms. If you need joy, read these Psalms.

If you're overwhelmed, read these Psalms. If you're, I mean, I have no idea what my category was, but it was something like, you know, if you're steeped in sin, read these Psalms. And I'm like, well, that's me, bing, bing. And the Lord used that to walk me through salvation. And in that moment, I had to confront my sin.

And I thought that being face to face, being honest, being vulnerable, being right up front about my sin, finally admitting it out loud, instead of shoving it under the surface, shoving it, shoving it, shoving it, until it just like all popped out. I thought that would destroy me. But because the love of Jesus was so palpable in that moment.

It actually was the most refreshing and rejuvenating thing I'd ever experienced in my life. To be able to own my sin and then realize it was the love of Jesus that sent him there for exactly that sin. And then I could receive his love, receive the cleansing, repent of the sin, and then receive his love. And I absolutely love how in your book,

That was one of the things that you talked about. It's in chapter 12, and you call the chapter, which really got my attention, His kindness led me to change. I'm just gonna read this to the listeners a little bit. So you said, I quickly learned through experience that God's way of ushering change into my heart would be through His kindness, not punishment. That's a huge sentence right there.

I was starting to get more clarity into the reality that there was clearly a power at work in my life that was much greater than me. God was determined, I love this, to love the hell out of me. Mm-hmm.

Erik Frederickson (22:57)

That

statement is as literal as it could be.

Cecily (23:00)

Absolutely. And then I'm just going to read this last part. Most importantly, the magnificent understanding of what Christ did on the cross began to settle in my heart. That's when I started catching a glimpse of God's glorious love and the freedom he offers each of us. So talk to us about that, because I feel like that is now the key. If you're sitting across the table in Starbucks or you're on your coaching calls and somebody is pouring their heart out to you and they feel

completely stuck in captive to addiction, to shame. And now you're talking to them about the love of God. Explain that to them and to our listeners because that doesn't seem to make sense.

Erik Frederickson (23:44)

Yeah, the gospel doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. Jesus talks about it being a stumbling block to people who are just so steeped in works or various other things. If you look that word stumbling block up in the Greek, it's actually where we get our English word for the word scandal, scandalous. Jesus is literally saying the cross is scandalous.

Cecily (23:55)

Oh yeah.

that. Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (24:09)

You, you're

right, you deserve hell. You're right, you deserve prison. You're right, you deserve that. But I'm so good, I'm just gonna wipe your slate clean. That's scandalous. He, and we have such a hard time believing he's as good as he says he is. It's so difficult for us to wrap our heads around it. You know, that's, the title of that chapter comes from Romans 2, 4, where it says it's his kindness that leads men to repentance. Or it's his goodness, other translations say that lead men. And repentance is that Greek word metanoia.

Cecily (24:24)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Erik Frederickson (24:38)

The most simplest way to say it is change your viewpoint. When we change the way we're looking at something, we're gonna change the way we talk about it and we're gonna change the way we walk and the way we approach things. And I began to experience that. I mean, my gosh, I should be deader in prison. That is, there's zero exaggeration in that. Many different times, many different times.

Cecily (25:04)

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (25:05)

And instead, when he met me in my brokenness, he wiped my slate clean. I had a handful of warrants out for my arrest and no license, registration or insurance the last time I got arrested. And I spent a weekend in jail and he wiped my slate clean. Well, how, what is that? How does, who does that? Nobody. And then exactly Jesus. And then again, we get to this place where we think like, okay, that's your one chance. Don't screw it up. What?

Cecily (25:22)

Yeah. Jesus.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (25:35)

It's

Cecily (25:35)

Fine.

Erik Frederickson (25:36)

like, okay, so grace is applicable to you, but only when you first come to him. Then when you come to him, then it's all on you.

Cecily (25:43)

So I'm so glad you said that because just a couple pages before what I just read, you shared how you would come to the Lord. You were doing awesome. You had vision, you had people supporting you. You had everything you need to win and you relapsed.

I can't even imagine the shame of that. Well, I mean, I can imagine it because I write about it in my book that I had been a Christian for a number of years and I fell into a sin that completely shocked me. And I'm like, where did that come from? And it's one thing when Jesus forgives you when you were a sinner and you didn't know better. But now when you know better and then you go back to that thing, it's like a slap in God's face. So talk about the shame that came with that.

Erik Frederickson (26:31)

Yeah, that was rough. I had gotten about four months of clean and sober and was doing well. And when you don't address the root causes, well, it's gonna come back. It's at one point or another, manifest its way in one way or another. Jesus said, when he put it this way, he cast the demon out, it's gonna leave.

Cecily (26:49)

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (27:02)

And it's gonna go look for seven spirits more evil than itself and it's gonna come back to see if your house is in order So a lot of people get tripped up where we experience this form of deliverance. We experience Like true freedom coming into our life in some capacity. We're like, oh man, it happened. I'm good Like finally my life is everything is in order. We don't understand. We're born into a war though. There's an active enemy That's coming that's working to try and see many people just default. We'll see that it always happens this way This is the way it always is for me

Cecily (27:23)

Yes.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (27:30)

And it's like, no, you're so much closer to freedom. You think the enemy now is just trying extra hard. And so, but here's the thing I did relapse. Uh, I was honest about it with the people that were around me. Immediately. I found myself living in this rundown, dirty, like disgusting, sober, living home where most people weren't even sober, no money, my sister paid and her husband paid for like two weeks for me. And then I had an all and I, at the end of it, I was like, dude, I don't even have a dime, I'm about to start just living homeless or in my car.

Cecily (27:34)

Yeah!

Erik Frederickson (27:58)

My car wasn't even working that well. And what happens? A friend calls me out of nowhere and asks if I would like to house it. They're housed like 10 minutes from the beach in San Diego for two weeks. Why they go out of town. Then yeah. Yeah. But at the same time I was like, well, that's sure beats living in my car. So let's go. So

Cecily (28:12)

Were you nervous? Did you feel like, oh, I hope I can handle this. I don't want to burn this bridge.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (28:22)

So I go and they say, so if you stay sober when we get back, we'll talk to you about maybe rent in our spare room. And if you don't, then when we get back, then you got to go. And then, you know, you got to leave and somehow stayed clean and sober and they got back and what did they do? They let me live there for the first month after that for free. You know, they gave me an amazing deal on rent. They helped me in my recovery. It's like we, it's so hard for us to believe God's as good as he says he is that his whole intention is to love you into wholeness.

Cecily (28:40)

Wow.

Mmmm

Erik Frederickson (28:51)

And instead what we do is we get, oftentimes, we mistake the work of the enemy in our life thinking it's God when it's not. And so then we think it's him. And then all of a sudden we're getting all beat up and shame and condemnation again, when the truth is that he's so much better, we can't wrap our head around how good he is. We can't even wrap our head around it. And

Cecily (28:52)

Yeah.

Yes.

Erik Frederickson (29:18)

rather than sit and try and understand it all intellectually before I do anything, is just submit to it and say, okay, God have your way in my life. And he began doing it. So immediately I screw up. What does he do? See, here's the thing. Mercy gives you what you deserve. Okay. If I go to court and I broke the law and they say, okay, so here's your fine. That's right. It's, it's you received mercy. It's not worse than you should have got. It's what you should have got. Grace,

Cecily (29:22)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Erik Frederickson (29:46)

Grace would be this I go to court. I got in trouble again. It would be okay. Here's your Here's $500 for you. We're gonna give you money and let you off That's grace and that's what happened. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna wipe your slate clean again And I'm gonna give you something say cool. That's that's scandalous. That's exactly what it is It's the good news. It's the grace of God and it is who he is

Cecily (29:58)

Mmm.

Wow. Yes, yes, yes.

Yes.

Erik Frederickson (30:16)

And it's best to just get on page with who he is, start walking with him the way that he is. It's what it's his kindness that leads people to repentance. You want to know who wrote that? Paul the apostle wrote that. You're talking about someone who was literally murdering, tormenting and imprisoning Christians thinking he was doing God's will. He was the one now radically transformed writing the epistle to Rome to the Romans. And he's telling them, I speak from experience.

Cecily (30:24)

Yes.

Come on.

Erik Frederickson (30:43)

It's his kindness that is going to lead you into this transformation.

Cecily (30:44)

Yes.

Yes, yes. Have you seen any of the episodes of The Chosen? Okay.

Erik Frederickson (30:52)

All of them. I haven't

seen any of season four yet. I think it's still in the theaters, but I've seen all three seasons, yeah, multiple times.

Cecily (30:57)

It is.

So I've been

to the theater for all of them so far for season four. It's it's radical. But one of my favorite episodes is the one where Mary Magdalene goes back to her old life and the shame that she feels because she loves Jesus so much and she knows that she just betrayed his love.

and all of the work that he had done in her and for her and all of it. And her friends, you know, all the people who believed in her and gave her this chance. And Jesus let her be a part of the disciples that follow him everywhere. And so what does Jesus do? He sends people to go find her. She doesn't get up out of the muck and mire. She's thinking, no, I guess I'm stuck here. I made my bed. I have to lie in it.

I'm going to have to stay here now because I blew it. I had the chance. He cleaned me up and this is what I did with it. This is what I did with his love. This is how I treated him. But he sent people to go get her and he sent her brethren, the ones who had watched her transformation and that's what God does with us. When we've been cleaned up, we have two choices.

We can either stand like a Pharisee and condemn the person who just fell, or we can be like Jesus' disciples that go at his beckoning and go look for the one that's sitting in their pain, sitting in their shame. And we can say, look, Jesus loves you. He sent me for you. He sent me to tell you, he wants you back.

And the whole scene where she goes to Jesus, she's led into the tent, you can just feel, she's just probably like, ugh, like, ugh, I can't face him, I can't face him. What am I gonna say? I don't wanna go face to face with him. He knows everything. I mean, he obviously knows everything I did. And I can't face it. But she does, she just goes in and there he is. And she just breaks down, says how sorry she is. And he was like, okay. And then he gives her a hug.

And like, he was, it's over. It's over. We're driving on now. Like, wow, I love that.