The Higher Pursuit Podcast
Welcome to Higher Pursuit, where we walk together on the journey of pursuing our best in Christ. If you’re feeling overwhelmed by life’s demands, facing self-doubt, or longing for deeper purpose, this podcast is for you. Here, we tackle real struggles—from emotional resilience to spiritual growth—drawing strength from faith and biblical wisdom.
Inspired by Paul’s image of the Christian life as a race for an eternal prize, I’m here as your Coach, offering encouragement, practical guidance, and support to build your endurance and strengthen your spirit. Let’s press on together, with our eyes on Jesus, toward the life God has called us to.
The Higher Pursuit Podcast
Fear of Failure & False Beliefs: How to Break Free from an Identity Crisis | Interview with Chris Tower
Do You Have a Broken Identity Without Even Realizing It?
What if the way you see yourself isn’t the way God sees you? Could you be living with a broken identity—one shaped by past wounds, failures, or false beliefs—without even realizing it?
In this powerful conversation, host Cecily Lachapelle sits down with Chris Tower to unpack his personal journey of discovering how deeply his identity had been fractured. He thought he knew who he was—until God revealed the truth. Chris shares how the fear of failure, self-doubt, and performance-based worth kept him trapped in a false sense of self. But through scripture, God's love, and intentional pursuit of truth, he found healing and restoration.
If you’ve ever wrestled with self-worth, shame, or feeling like you’re not enough, this episode will speak directly to your heart. Learn how to recognize the lies you've believed, embrace your true identity in Christ, and repurpose the pain of a broken identity into a life of freedom and purpose.
🔹 Key Takeaways:
✔️ How to recognize if you’re unknowingly living from a broken identity
✔️ The power of scripture in reshaping your self-perception
✔️ Why fear of failure often signals a misplaced sense of worth
✔️ How to embrace your unique identity in Christ as a contemplative explorer
✔️ Finding the value of encountering God's love and delight in everyday moments
✔️ How structuring your life around the Word will facilitate spiritual growth and encounter God's transformative power
Don’t miss this episode—your breakthrough may be just one revelation away!
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Excitement for the Conversation
03:43 Discussion about Personal Preferences and Identity
06:05 Exploration of the Contemplative Explorer Identity
10:15 Being Witnesses to God's Activity
12:34 The Importance of Scripture and the Living Word
14:08 The Validity and Faithfulness of Scripture
16:12 The Role of the Spirit in Understanding Scripture
18:18 Transitioning Out of Traditional Ministry Roles
21:39 Discovering False Identities and Finding Rest
26:21 The Importance of Debriefing and Reflection
29:18 Overcoming the Fear of Failure
34:54 Encountering God's Love and Delight
39:38 The Value of Honest Confession and Encounter with God
45:17 The Depth of God's Love and the Journey of Discovering Him
50:39 The Importance of Being in the Word and Meditating on Scripture
58:08 Structuring Life Around the Word and Facilitating Growth
01:03:17 The Mystery of Growth and the Role We Play
01:04:43 The Power of Love and Its Impact on Our Lives
🌟 Stay Connected & Go Deeper! 🌟
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Cecily Lachapelle (00:01.605)
Hi everybody, this is Cecily with the Hire Pursuit Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. Today I have a special treat. I'm so excited to be able to sit down and chat with one of my great friends, Chris Tower. Chris and I are lovers of the Bible. We have had so many conversations that we wish were recorded because we just love to talk about the Bible and all things theology. We've taught together a couple times when we were going to the same church and we taught it almost like a podcast. So I'm excited to actually do that for real with him today. Today's discussion is gonna be a little bit less on the theology tone and a little bit more towards the theme that we've been talking about in our podcast of repurposing our pain. So I just wanna give you a little bit of a background about Chris before I let him talk to you about him. Chris is a follower and a lover of Jesus and that is the truth. He is a new husband. His lovely wife is Adriana, and I had the amazing honor of being able to give the homily at their wedding. And it was a moment I will never forget. It was beautiful, beautiful moment. Such a wonderful wedding man, Chris, was my favorite. So he's also a contemplative explorer of theology. I love that. And of the Bible and of the inner healing that comes from journeying with Jesus. He's a graduate of Valley Forge, of the University of Valley Forge, and he is now going to be diving into getting his Masters of Divinity with the hope of teaching theology and the Bible in an academic setting. And I tell you, Chris, I'm gonna sign this over to you in a second, but I would love to be a student in any one of your classes. You're gonna make it interesting, exciting. He has such a connection with young people, but people like me love to just sit in, listen to him teach. So, Chris, I'm so excited to have you on today.
Chris (02:20.526)
Well, thank you very much. This is a real honor. I feel like all day I've been like having little imaginings of like our conversation, because it's true. Every time we sit down, it's just wonderful. I always feel like I learned so much from you. And then it's like, oh, but this little piece over here and that little piece. And next thing you know, there's this clearer picture of something emerging. So it's a lot of fun. So I'm excited for our conversation.
Cecily Lachapelle (02:38.486)
Yes!
Cecily Lachapelle (02:44.213)
It is, it's so great because I find like I love discussing the Bible with you because you will always bring something out and you have absolutely no problem challenging me. And I love that where you're like, I don't know. Um, I remember, I remember one time sitting at my kitchen table and we were putting together our message on, um, things we were talking about from the book of Acts and you were like, I don't know, Cecily, I think you're going to need to prove that one to me. And I'm like, oh, well, let's go!
Chris (02:59.434)
Likewise.
Cecily Lachapelle (03:13.497)
Here we go. Bring out your sword. Yo, you bring out your sword. It was great. I love that. Okay, so on the light side here, let's have a little icebreaker question. If you were designing a coffee mug with either your favorite saying or scripture on it, tell me what that mug would look like, what you'd have on that mug.
Chris (03:14.367)
Hahaha!
Chris (03:19.246)
Yeah. It was awesome.
Cecily Lachapelle (03:40.305)
And more importantly, what would be inside of that mug?
Chris (03:43.302)
Okay, sure. I like first off immediately the beverage inside would undoubtedly be coffee just because superior beverage, superior beverage. In fact, we've been doing this thing called bullet coffee and you put like a fatty like healthy but fatty butter into it so we do like that carigold and then some mct oil actually and that's no more cream that's our thing now and anyways for what that's worth.
Cecily Lachapelle (03:50.641)
Come on now, can I get a witness? There you go. This is why I love you.
Cecily Lachapelle (03:59.157)
Oh.
Cecily Lachapelle (04:04.655)
Yeah.Wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (04:11.757)
You do coffee without cream? I did not know you had made the change.
Chris (04:15.61)
I, that is, yeah, I used to do a lot of cream. I mean, it was like, do you want coffee with your cream? So anyway, so that's what's inside. Let's see, on the outside, I feel like it would be a just classic mug. Nothing like crazy about it. So probably like a white mug with probably the scripture that when I thought about this question, the thing that comes to mind right away and where I often find myself coming back to and going, oh yeah, this is so...
Cecily Lachapelle (04:19.176)
Y-yeah. Uh-huh.
Cecily Lachapelle (04:34.481)
Mm.
Chris (04:45.562)
rich and true is Romans 8.1 which is there's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus and the rest of that little paragraph is insane and so anyways but I love how it just it comes right out the gate with a punch so yeah I would that would be that would be my mug.
Cecily Lachapelle (04:53.33)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (04:58.136)
Mmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (05:04.293)
Yes. So good. Love it. I'm sure a lot of people would buy that mug if I had that merch on my website. Who knows? Maybe I'll add it. Maybe that's what I'll do. Maybe I'll just start creating these mugs for every person. I, every guest I interview, if it's good enough, maybe I'll just start a guest mug quote collection. That'd be great. All right. So.
Chris (05:14.038)
Let's go. Yes.
Chris (05:30.269)
I love it.
Cecily Lachapelle (05:31.829)
Who are you today? Like, how would you describe Chris Tower to people who don't know you?
Chris (05:37.294)
Sure. Gosh, that's, I mean, to me, that's quite the question, but right now I'm in a season where I've had time to really contemplate and think about things. And I'm really a believer in the fact that, you know, Paul talks about, you know, one person's like a hand in the body of Christ, another person's like an eye, another like a nose. So although there are things about our identities that are all true for all of us.
loved by God, child of God, and in Christ, and Christ in us, and seated in heavenly places, and all these amazing things. I also believe that there is a unique identity that we each have in him. And so one of the things that I feel from the Lord, and you kind of mentioned it already, is this idea of a contemplative explorer. Like for whatever reason, I just love that. I love
Cecily Lachapelle (06:16.825)
Yes.
Chris (06:32.146)
more than just it being a heady thing, but this idea of appreciation and coming to value something that you at first didn't see the value of or understand fully or whatever. So anyways, that little idea is truly like remarkable and I almost get lost in it every time I kind of say it and I'm like, wow, to appreciate something. And I think the thing I love the most about that is how
Cecily Lachapelle (06:42.01)
Yeah.
Chris (06:58.698)
the value of maybe an idea or whatever can actually become an encounter with God himself. And you suddenly, my appreciation overlaps with his. I actually discover something about him and it kind of then transcends from here's this cool thing about this idea to you're encountering a different kind of appreciation that this world just doesn't have. It doesn't possess. It's from him.
Cecily Lachapelle (07:03.221)
Yes, and that's the whole point. Yeah.
Chris (07:26.558)
And it's really his love for you in the end. And so that kind of encounter is what changes people's lives. And I know it's changed mine and continues to, you know what I mean, from each separate little moment that I, even just the small heart iteration, if I just have, if I catch it, it truly is transformative. So I love the idea of that and then helping other people to have the same experience.
Cecily Lachapelle (07:26.921)
Yeah. Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (07:33.733)
Mm.
Cecily Lachapelle (07:41.689)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (07:46.502)
Mm.
Cecily Lachapelle (07:54.913)
Yes, I think that you and I are the same in that we love to read the Word of God, but not just read it. We love to research, dig in, go back to the original language, read some commentaries, maybe go read the ancient church fathers and look at maps and atlases and all these things that other people will be like...
Chris (08:12.035)
Hmm
Cecily Lachapelle (08:17.533)
Oh, I'm so sorry that I just like, wake me up when you're done talking about all that. You know, we, we love that, but it's not just to be intellectual, uh, to say, well, we know all these things it's because for us and for many people probably listening to this podcast, because I think many people see higher pursuit knowing that I'm a Christian based podcast. And they're like, yes.
Chris (08:19.191)
Goodnight!
Cecily Lachapelle (08:44.141)
I am on a higher pursuit. I'm on a pursuit of more of Him, more experience with Him. But one of the great quotes, and I wish I had it in front of me right now, dang it, but one of the ancient church fathers said, the more clearly we see the Lord, the more we love Him. And so our study of the Bible
Chris (09:03.817)
Wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (09:07.637)
is not to grow our brain or our head knowledge of the Lord, but to actually increase our vision of Him, increase the language, our vocabulary, with which we can explain and express what we just saw, and also increase our awareness of the language of heaven, so that when we hear His voice, we're like,
Chris (09:10.551)
Yes.
Chris (09:16.502)
Yes.
Chris (09:23.094)
Yes. Yep.
Chris (09:30.509)
Amen.
Cecily Lachapelle (09:34.721)
that makes perfect sense. I heard that voice in Psalms. I heard that numbers and I mean I heard that numbers in Deuteronomy. I heard that revelation and so that's I think that's where you and I both kind of geek out on the Bible because it increases our love, our vision, our connection with the Lord. But then also for some reason both you and I our first thought is this is amazing. How can I teach this to someone?
Chris (09:39.238)
Mm-hmm. Come on. Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (10:01.689)
Who can I tell about this and how can I tell it? And how can I make this clear to someone else what I just experienced? Because neither you or I are content to just keep this to ourselves and be like, that was a cool journal entry, nice. You know?
Chris (10:03.684)
Yes. Yeah.
Chris (10:15.215)
Okay, next episode on Netflix now. No, I agree that there is, I was, this is kind of like a recent thing that's emerged. I think another way to frame it in is the idea of being a witness that there is.
Cecily Lachapelle (10:17.611)
Yeah!
Chris (10:30.21)
this process of, like you were saying, being aware of how the spirit is. You know, it's not that we need an angelic visitation or the heaven split and open vision and like, oh, that's probably amazing. I don't think I've ever had those kinds of things. Most of the interaction that I would say most people have, if not everybody with the Lord is that hearkening back to, you know, that moment with when Elijah is.
waiting for the Lord and waiting on the Lord and it's that still small voice. And it's, you can almost miss it because he's so near now, our spirit being one with his and everything. So there is definitely, there's definitely something to that whole inner world, but being a witness to it. And, and I love that part of things, because you hear people like, go evangelize and reach the world and do that stuff. And there are probably people who are absolutely gifted.
Cecily Lachapelle (11:02.658)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chris (11:27.638)
with like, that's just their lane, their like love. You know, I think of my brother is like that. Everywhere that guy goes, he just loves sharing at some level with somebody and connecting with them. And I love that too. But the thing that gets me excited is when I'm first witness to this activity that I sense in my own life. And then you get around other people who are experiencing the same thing and suddenly it's all like this kind of like boiling water that starts to happen. And we're kind of.
Cecily Lachapelle (11:30.361)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (11:38.321)
Thank you.
Cecily Lachapelle (11:52.074)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chris (11:56.234)
witnesses together of this is the work of Jesus. Like look what he's doing. And then to be able to share that with believer or unbeliever is like, it's something that actually flows kind of pretty naturally from our hearts, you know? So I don't know if that's helpful for somebody when they reframe the idea of you shall be my witnesses, you know, but.
Cecily Lachapelle (12:01.07)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (12:08.757)
Yes. Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (12:15.237)
Yeah, I think so. It's funny that you should say that because one of the young ladies that I mentor, she said to me like, oh, I want to hear God like you hear God. And I said, well, then just get in your Bible. Because that was the very first time that I ever, ever heard the Lord was the night I got saved. And there was nobody in the room with me. It was me and a Bible that somehow I found when I was packing up all my things, I was leaving for boarding school the next day. So my room was just
Chris (12:34.422)
Wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (12:45.031)
boxes and things that I was like shoving all my things back from my dorm room in. And somehow I think came upon a Bible and I don't even know how it got there, but I won't talk about this too much. But it was literally how God spoke to me. I did one of those open it up point, you know, ask God a question and he was so merciful and long suffering and answered me with every page flip. And he led me to salvation through only the Word.
Chris (13:00.298)
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (13:14.561)
And so for that, because that's how I was birthed into the kingdom, the Bible, the word of God has always had the highest priority. And I tell anybody that I'm discipling, mentoring, leading to the Lord, any of that, the Bible is the most important thing. Experience is great, but it needs to be second.
Chris (13:20.525)
Yes.
Chris (13:31.106)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (13:36.025)
Because if we have experience without being grounded in the word, that's where we can start getting into error and deception. But if our experience launches off of our understanding of who the Lord is, then we know we're safe. Because the Bible, if the Bible validates that experience, then we know it's okay. So.
Chris (13:57.45)
Yes, absolutely. And there's the living word that proceeds from his mouth. Man does not live on bread alone. And I think it's a very important thing to realize the scripture is the tried and true word of God. And if there is some aspect of my experience that tries to lead me away from the foundation of scripture, then I know discard out you go because this is the true and tried word.
Cecily Lachapelle (14:01.965)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (14:19.749)
See you.
Cecily Lachapelle (14:24.985)
Yes.
Chris (14:27.614)
I was even thinking about, I think we even talked about it before, about it's the same kind of principle where in Deuteronomy, I think it's 18, about testing a false prophet. It's not whether or not it's a false word or whatever. The fruit, even Jesus says, you'll know them by their fruit, a false prophet, but it's that they lead you away from Yahweh. And so, Yahweh, the Lord has given us His word. It is...
Cecily Lachapelle (14:44.473)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (14:49.378)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (14:56.177)
Thank you.
Chris (14:57.138)
of all the documents of antiquity, the most textual attestation to the validity and the faithfulness of what you see is really what was originally penned. So it's incredible. I'm 100% echoing everything you're saying. But my prayer, I think...
Cecily Lachapelle (15:11.533)
It's amazing. Yes. It absolutely is. It is so cool. And for me, the word of God has been such a source of my healing. So my book is full of scripture because I know that
my words, my stories, even me talking about a character from the Bible. Like that might be encouraging. Somebody might read that and say, wow, that really ministers to me, because if God could do something for her and my experience is like that, then he could do it for me, there's definite value in testimony, but I know that my stories, my writing is nothing.
Chris (15:48.694)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (16:01.537)
anointed unless the word of God is in it. And it's the word of God that he promises will bring healing and change as better than any antibiotic, better than any chemotherapy for against cancer, better than anything. His word goes into our thoughts and into our inner man and helps repurpose that pain. It's not some mental gymnastics.
Chris (16:12.642)
Amen.
Cecily Lachapelle (16:29.285)
that we're trying to do to convince ourselves of a new normal. So today we're kind of talking about identity and how God helps us repurpose our broken identity. And so I asked you to share a life challenge or an event that highlights that pain that you repurposed. So can you share that?
Chris (16:29.347)
Hmm.
Chris (16:33.027)
Mm, amen.
Chris (16:39.008)
All right.
Chris (16:50.734)
Sure. Absolutely. If I could tag one more thought onto what we were just saying, I think my prayer is, and I think it's something that I remember talking about experience and, you know, having these things like the safety of the Word and the safety of community of people who value the Word and everything. It really does serve as this beautiful, like, collective thing in our journey with the Lord.
Cecily Lachapelle (16:56.91)
Yeah.
Chris (17:17.942)
But it really, I mean, the living spirit, that is what's beautiful about this covenant now. We have the spirit of God, you know? I was just reading 1 John and he talks a lot about that. So when people, if people are listening to this and thinking, you know, no, just the word, it's like the word and the spirit. We need both and we need the spirit to bring to life the things, you know? Otherwise, it would just be a dead work. You know, we don't want that. And so.
Cecily Lachapelle (17:25.303)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (17:36.166)
Yes, absolutely.
Cecily Lachapelle (17:42.306)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (17:45.453)
Such a good point. Yeah, I'm so glad you added that. That is so important.
Chris (17:48.678)
Yeah, but so to that point though, I mean, in our, in our, my journey with the Lord, one such thing that's happened, uh, I wouldn't call it necessarily a valley moment, more like a, I'm going to jump off the cliff and trust God moment. Uh, we're going to skydive for possibly the first time, you know? Um, but I was in a traditional role of ministry, uh, right out of college. Like you said, I graduated from college.
Cecily Lachapelle (18:04.987)
Mm. Ha ha. Yeah, that's so good.
Chris (18:18.862)
Um, from the university of LA porch. And, um, I actually did my final semester while being on staff at a church, um, a Christian life church in Elliot. And, um, which came to be my church family for many years, in fact, seven and a half. And then, um, I got married, the season of life changed and boy, I just really was like, so attached myself and everything to what I was doing.
This is what this I'm doing this for the Lord. It's and I don't care what anybody says. Like I'm holding onto this and then and single life. That's awesome. And getting married boy that there's something about getting married and committing your life to another person where you're getting used to each other and you're getting used to each other's lifestyles and all that kind of thing. And so in the process of that there was some growing pains man. And I was like, what is?
Cecily Lachapelle (19:09.293)
Yeah.
Chris (19:15.958)
This is not the same. I'm not living in the same single brain anymore and all that kind of thing. So I was holding on really tight to, this is what ministry looks like, this is what my life is. And I just was very, very tight fisted about it. And God started getting a hold of my, long story short, getting a hold of my heart in terms of the grace of God. I was stuck in Philippians 3 where he talks about
Cecily Lachapelle (19:21.389)
Yeah.
Chris (19:44.842)
all my accolades, you know, that I used to, according to the flesh, be like, look at me, and being righteous before God, it's all garbage. Now, in comparison to knowing Him, knowing the righteousness that comes by faith, and that comes from God and Christ. And so, I really, there's just something about that was just stirring in me. And my wife happened to just mention a certain pastor that she was familiar with, who's in England.
Cecily Lachapelle (19:49.115)
Mm. Yeah.
Chris (20:12.162)
The name is Terry Virgo and he had this whole series on grace. And I thought, I'm gonna listen to that. Like, absolutely. Message one, right out the gate, man. Amazing. Well, we get to message three and I'm not gonna, cause we'd be here all day if I tried to explain the whole thing, but essentially it really focuses on the finished work of Christ is, and the, it's like righteousness is that like doorway through which his grace flows. And if it's about the finished work of Christ, then why work?
Cecily Lachapelle (20:17.868)
Neh.
Wow.
Chris (20:41.474)
for God at all. And that was kind of the question he posed in message three, and the short answer of it was because Jesus invites us into it. There's a lot of other little factors, but you know, the sprinkled blood, Hebrews 9, I think it's verse 14, on our conscience purges our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. And so there's a, there's that process now.
Cecily Lachapelle (21:07.418)
Yes.
Chris (21:11.25)
in with the spirit that we're invited into the work. And I was mowing the lawn listening to that. And I just felt this release in my heart when suddenly I was like, am I trying to hold on to something here that's so tightly that I'm actually missing the thing God might be trying to invite me into.
Cecily Lachapelle (21:35.525)
So are you saying you were making that your identity? That you had at least... Yeah.
Chris (21:39.07)
That's absolutely right. And I think it's probably common for a lot of people and a lot of men, especially is like, what we do is where we get our sense of worth and value. Um, and that was, yeah, that, that was a moment for me where I really stopped and I, I considered a fresh, like, is, is there something else? And I, I just got the sense like, I don't know.
Cecily Lachapelle (21:47.471)
Yes.
Come on.
Chris (22:08.73)
what the next thing is at that, what it was at that point. Um, and so I, but I just decided this is the right call for me right now. It's the transition out. So that is where I've been now. Uh, three months later, I pretty much three months later, I transitioned out of that traditional role in ministry. And, um, yeah, and I've, I've been here since and, uh, boy in the process of that.
Cecily Lachapelle (22:22.789)
Mm-hmm.
Chris (22:38.322)
what gets uncovered. So I've got one such story, but I wanna just pause to let you kind of chime in real quick and then I can continue with my story.
Cecily Lachapelle (22:45.289)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good. I think it's a couple things I'm getting out of it was the journey that you allowed the Lord to bring a resource across your path so that you could hear a message that you were already complete in Christ and that something that the Lord had used for a season
Never. He never meant you to attach your identity to that thing. But as is common with so many of us, we do, especially when we're good at it. And Chris, you were good at it. I, you can't, you held so many roles. You were the knowledge expert in so many things that, that you were not just, you were not just successful, but you were needed. And so.
to hear the word of the Lord that this season is over and I'm looking to you to step out. It's one thing when God has you step out into your next thing, but the Lord would not allow you to do that because He was going to do that identity work in you, re-establish your identity in a different, you know, focusing it back.
Chris (24:08.758)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (24:09.869)
onto the things that he wants your identity to be rooted and grounded on before that next thing opens. That exact same thing happened with me when I stepped out of corporate. I say to people, I stepped out of corporate to write the book, but I didn't know at the time what I was going to do. I just knew that the Lord had said, you're not supposed to be here anymore and that it's time for you to step out.
Chris (24:15.008)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (24:37.769)
and open time and space for me. And I'll direct your path. Like when he told Abraham or Abram, then just get up and leave. Okay, great. Where are we going? What's the plan? I'll tell you as you start moving, but I need to see you start moving in obedience first and that's nerve wracking. It's so hard. It's so hard when you're to step into nothingness. It feels like you're free falling.
Chris (24:47.04)
one.
Chris (24:56.003)
Wow. Yes.
Chris (25:03.298)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (25:04.109)
And especially when there's an expectation, when people are saying, oh, okay, so what are you doing now? Oh, okay, Chris, so you stepped out of full-time ministry to fill the blank, and you're like, to sit home. And you would, Jesus, and I don't know. I mean, I don't know about you, but that was hard for me.
Chris (25:18.791)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (25:25.777)
My last day walking around the office saying goodbye to people, people are like, Oh, okay. So now you can tell me where you're going. So what company snagged you? And you're like, um, the kingdom of God, I'm. Leaving to go be with the Lord in my office. Like I quit on a Friday. I'm sitting in my office on Monday, like.
Chris (25:26.262)
Wicked hard.
Chris (25:37.588)
Oh wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (25:46.401)
Okay, what are we doing, God? So I don't know if you can relate to any of that, but it feels like it's similar.
Chris (25:47.278)
Wow. Yeah.
Chris (25:53.974)
Absolutely, absolutely. I think the transition period even of handing things off in a way that would honor the next people and help set them up for a win, that was also that process. And then just that normal thing that comes with organizations, it's, there's a certain level of leaders that needs to know first and then the broader and then the broader and then the broader. So even to hold some of that news so close, I wanted to honor that transition out.
Cecily Lachapelle (26:04.366)
Yeah.
Chris (26:22.622)
And like all of that was challenging and it makes sense, you know, and I don't fault anybody for all those transition points. Um, so that part was, had presented its challenges for sure. And I don't think it was until after I was out where I had the, I was very fortunate that my last day, the next day I was getting on a plane and we went to Florida for a week, so that was a real, that was awesome. So I had a week long vacation, which was, which was a great way to start that. Um.
Cecily Lachapelle (26:45.465)
That is nice.
Chris (26:51.966)
And then, but yeah, boots on the ground, right? When you get home, it's like, well, I'm going to tidy up around the house and I'm going to do the chores and I'm going to do that. You're just kind of like busy yourself, busy yourself. And, um, thankfully, um, we have, we know somebody, uh, it's actually one of Adriana's relatives and they specialize with helping people who either are currently in ministry or maybe have trans out transitioned out through something called debriefing. And so, um, I've.
Cecily Lachapelle (27:02.553)
Yeah.
Chris (27:21.206)
I was encouraged to let's take a look at these seven and a half years. What happened? You know, what was the activity of that? And in that reflection, here comes these things. And I remember one distinct moment with, um, the person who was taking me through it and I had said, um, I guess I was afraid we were talking about things that we were afraid of, um, I guess I was afraid of failing at some level.
I don't even remember what it was about, but that came up. And he flipped the script a little bit on me, which has been so helpful because now I'm like, oh wait, I can do that to myself now in a way. But, and he said, are you afraid of failing or that you are a failure? And then suddenly it was like, here's the identity piece and the deep wound, man. And I was thinking like,
Cecily Lachapelle (27:54.001)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (28:02.865)
Hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (28:09.721)
OOOOOOO
Cecily Lachapelle (28:14.125)
There you go. Wow, that's sucking corn right there.
Chris (28:20.926)
Well, how do I know if I'm believing that? It's because at some level, sometimes that striving to accomplish and you kind of highlighted the different roles I was in and everything. Part of why I couldn't, I had a hard time saying no, having good boundaries, that kind of thing. And I think this is probably true for a lot of people in a traditional ministry role or even just in general at work or whatever it is.
There's a certain striving because we're trying to prove that nagging thing wrong. And for me, it was you're a failure. And so I'm like, no, I'm not, you know, my conscious mind wasn't necessarily in that place of being like, I'm not a failure. I'm not a failure. No, I wasn't going around saying these things, but there was something deeper. And, um, the fruit of it was exhaustion, no bandwidth. I can think about just.
Cecily Lachapelle (28:58.065)
Come on.
Chris (29:19.03)
who I've discovered myself to be like, I use that phrase contemplative explorer. And I love it so much because that actually takes time. And I look back at that season, certain aspects of that season, it's not all the time, but certain aspects of that season and think, I didn't even have the time, I didn't even give myself the time to have time to reflect. And here's a big portion of who I believe God has created me to be. And like when I feel most alive with him, and this is like,
Cecily Lachapelle (29:37.662)
Yeah.
Chris (29:48.33)
the constrict what I feel to be constricting. And I couldn't say no, not because all these bad guys out here are being mean, it's because I actually didn't, I had the wrong self image of who I thought. I didn't realize that was going on, but no, I'm not a failure. I'm gonna, or I don't wanna let people down, or however that works itself out. And now I can't say no. And now I can't say no, and then yes to the thing God.
Cecily Lachapelle (30:07.292)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (30:10.695)
Mmm. Yes.
Chris (30:17.438)
really wants me to have my yes. And that kind of thing. So it was so powerful. It'd be, yeah, go ahead. Yes, absolutely.
Cecily Lachapelle (30:17.894)
Mm-hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (30:24.945)
That is so good. Can we just stop there for a second? Because you just dropped a major identity bomb. And I just want to recap that for everybody who's listening. I think of so many of us struggle with adopting an identity that God never created for us.
And like Chris said right in the beginning, there is that overarching identity that we all have as children of God, as sheep, and Jesus is our rabbi. There are certain things I am accepted in the beloved. There's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places. There are certain things that describe all of us.
Chris (31:17.304)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (31:17.449)
And it is so important that we know those things. And it's the word of God, again, ding, that highlights what that identity is for us as a child of God. But then there are those specific, unique characteristics that God wired into just us. And if we don't have time fellowshipping with the spirit of the Lord, then we will just go with the flow.
adopt whatever.
we'll try to fulfill whatever the world tells us or our parents' expectations or some expectation, especially if we're working from the place of a broken identity, we can fall prey to comparison. We look at somebody else, I'm looking at some woman's appearance and I'm like, I should look like that. I'm looking at a way another woman raises her kids and I'm like, oh, I should be a parent like that.
Chris (31:56.642)
Come on.
Cecily Lachapelle (32:18.959)
the way one of my friends is an awesome patient wife and I don't feel like that. So I'm not I'm a terrible wife because I'm not as good as her in that. You know, I'm picking everybody's highlights and I'm comparing it against my blooper reel. And if my identity is stuck in brokenness, if our identity is stuck in that broken place, there we don't we can't go back to the real us and find that acceptance.
Chris (32:23.418)
Well...
Chris (32:32.878)
Come on.
Cecily Lachapelle (32:47.533)
and move out from that place and say, I'm so blessed that my friend is an amazing wife and she can be a role model for me. I would love to learn from her and look, you know, look, maybe take on some of those traits of patience that I either didn't see modeled for me or for whatever reason, I'm just reacting in impatience. I can do better by watching her example, but her great example does not mean that I am deficient.
does not mean I'm failing, does not mean I am not a child of God, not accepted in the beloved. So I love what Chris was saying about, it wasn't that he was afraid to fail as much as he was afraid of being a failure. And I'm wondering how many of you have struggled with that? You've struggled with that tyranny of
Chris (33:17.268)
Bye.
Hmm
Chris (33:24.878)
you
Cecily Lachapelle (33:44.913)
the identity that is not the one that God created for you. And you're so busy, you surround yourself with so much noise and you're desperately trying to work, work. Like he referenced that scripture that talks about dead works. Those are the dead works. Us trying to somehow climb a ladder to become something we think we're not already. But that scripture that he quoted is saying, no, you already are it. So you don't have to engage in dead works anymore.
Chris (34:00.462)
Come on.
Chris (34:07.243)
Hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (34:14.253)
Now you can engage in living works, I guess. And those living works would be the things that come out of the identity that God created for us. So, all right, so now Chris, move on, thanks. Just wanted to recap that.
Chris (34:14.486)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Chris (34:22.946)
Yeah.
Chris (34:26.222)
That was so good. I just, I love that. I love that. And I think what the next point I kind of want to make is a point that's already in my story, but I just, I really, I'm just kind of like soaking it all in as we're going. Cause I think you, I love how you keep saying the word and it is so true. And I guess it's that word and then the spirit making the word alive in our hearts is.
Cecily Lachapelle (34:41.795)
Yeah.
Chris (34:55.146)
that place of encounter. And I guess God just knows exactly how to get our attention. And I think one of the things that this season, I guess this is just an interjection before I continue with my story. One of the things that this season is bringing about where, like you said, where are you going? And now you're like in your office and I'm with Jesus, you know, like, or whatever that thing is. I found myself even driven around the house until people started to really like.
Cecily Lachapelle (35:03.042)
Yeah.
Chris (35:24.086)
What is the Lord saying? What do you sense from God? And I was like, I'm afraid to ask him. You know, like, I'm afraid to go there. But it's his faithfulness to just like, he knows exactly how to make that truth of the word accessible to us. Like to use an image from something my wife was kind of saying in her time, she was picturing this,
Cecily Lachapelle (35:25.553)
Mmm.
Chris (35:52.79)
and it's called a zero entry pool or whatever. And it's like a beach in a way. You just kind of walk in and it just starts, but there's no like obstacle and you got to get off of diving board. There's no, sometimes I guess there is like that, but the Lord, he so wants us to be in communion with him. He just makes, by his spirit, he makes himself so.
available. It's all by his grace and it's a mystery and I'm not going to pretend to be like, so here's the intricacies of that. I just somehow, he's the faithful one to come and bring us into that place where we go. If you just took a second to consider it, if you're too busy and you're gone and you're just on to the next thing or whatever that, our culture. So like this season has been marked by space for me. And I think that's, he's bringing me into this wide open space so that I can get acquainted with his voice again.
Cecily Lachapelle (36:22.248)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (36:33.841)
Mm. Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (36:42.437)
Thank you.
Chris (36:46.122)
which then connects me again with my true identity. And now it's like that recuperating time before you are able to be then maybe launched out again or whatever is that's next. And there've been plenty of days where I probably need to preach this to myself because I'm like, hurry up, God, I need a job. It's just, I'm thinking like, and it's not for lack of trying, but God's timing. So anyways, in the story, I'm...
Cecily Lachapelle (36:46.395)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (37:01.23)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (37:07.633)
Thank you.
Cecily Lachapelle (37:13.347)
It does.
Chris (37:16.078)
There's another practice that I've been doing for a while now. I don't do it faithfully and I'm not this amazing, whatever, but man, God meets me every time I do it. And at some point, I'm faced with this reality like, oh, I'm not afraid of failing. I'm afraid that I'm a failure. And so I just confess that to God. I get done with the call and whatever. And I remember just laying on the couch and just being like...
Cecily Lachapelle (37:37.452)
Mm.
Chris (37:45.31)
Lord, I'm just confessing to you, true confession. I'm afraid that I'm a failure. And as soon as that comes up, I'm sure there's all sorts of imagery from childhood and where that came from and the initial wound or maybe not, maybe many different things. Again, just my little old self making these conclusions or whatever it is, and those can be really powerful, leading times. And I've been through
Cecily Lachapelle (37:49.009)
Mmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (37:53.506)
Mmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (38:01.601)
Yeah.
Chris (38:14.606)
through times with the Lord with that, whether it was through something somebody else was facilitating or just my own time, but forgiving people who did wound me and releasing them to God. And that is so valuable and important. But that's not what happened in this moment. Those things didn't really come up. It was just like, and I don't know what to do with that. So there you go. And I remember just like.
Cecily Lachapelle (38:33.902)
Wow.
Chris (38:40.842)
sitting there and not having some crazy spiritual experience and just kind of like getting distracted probably in my head and off I go and it's like, or maybe like dozing off to sleep. It was nothing grand and I just was like, well, I'm thirsty or whatever, you know, you just get off and with the rest of your day and go and get a glass of water and then what was I thinking about? But God didn't forget. I just know like he, that was an honest moment. He cares about those. He wants the honesty of our heart. We think, that's no faith. Don't be, you know, sometimes we have to get the false out.
Cecily Lachapelle (38:52.608)
Yeah, yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (38:58.459)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (39:01.75)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (39:07.77)
of Trinidad.
Chris (39:10.538)
so that he can supplant it, replace it with his truth. And little do we know sometimes those false identities act as walls. You know, I could think of that idea, you make a better door than a window or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, ugh, it's like, it's that thing that we just erect, but God and his patience and kindness to us. But anyway, so next thing I know, we're speaking of kind of like this.
Cecily Lachapelle (39:11.737)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (39:15.201)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (39:21.272)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (39:24.789)
window than a door. Yeah.
Chris (39:39.858)
the season of being in rest mode. It's the idea of like Sabbath rest. And so we've started to think about that in this time. And there's a term within that whole little world, not a legalistic Sabbath or anything, but just a time of rest and contemplation with him. One of the words that got tossed around a lot was this word of delight. This is part of being in a place of rest is delight. So that was definitely something that
Cecily Lachapelle (40:07.057)
Yes.
Chris (40:08.49)
at the same time as all this is going on, that's kind of somewhere in the background, you know? And I'm brushing my teeth one night and I'm taken back to this encounter that I had. This is way, this is like years ago, and it was so random, but I just remember like, again, it's not like I'm like, where's God, where's God, where's God? I'm just like, I'm in the bathroom, it's years ago, and I'm just brushing my teeth. And kind of out of nowhere, I just start to kind of like laugh.
Cecily Lachapelle (40:13.658)
Yeah.
Chris (40:37.55)
And I'm like, why am I laughing? There's nothing funny right now. Nothing should be sparking in this laughter. So I'm just kind of like chuckling to myself. And I'm, and it's one of those moments. And I, I guess I want to encourage people with this too. It's like, when you, oh, what is that? That's too much of a coincidence. Sometimes it's just that weird little thing that's just catching your attention. That little way that God knows how to just get your, so at that point I probably was just used to doing it. And I thought, Lord.
Cecily Lachapelle (40:42.193)
That's so funny.
Cecily Lachapelle (41:02.341)
Yes.
Chris (41:07.21)
Is that you? Like I think of Samuel. Lord is that you know, your servant is listening. I wasn't like your servant's listening, but I just thought. Is this you? I'm like what's happening right now? And this profound just deep joy. And he just was like I could sense him smiling at me and just being like I'm just enjoying this moment with you. And there was this profound like something as humble as brushing my teeth. He loves to be acquainted with these
Cecily Lachapelle (41:09.73)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (41:14.457)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (41:28.531)
Wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (41:32.609)
pressing your teeth.
Chris (41:35.15)
little tiny moments that we think are so unimportant. He just loves this tiny little iteration of the heart where I just noticed him. And he's like, Oh, I'm just enjoying this moment with you. And I so I'm brushing. So fast forward now to this moment of like, I don't know what this is about God, whatever. And I'm brushing my teeth and that encounter and I'm going, you're trying to get my attention. What is it? And again, that word pops up, delight, because that whole practice is about dividing yourself and the Lord.
Cecily Lachapelle (41:38.484)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (41:43.886)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:00.715)
night.
Chris (42:04.162)
But boy, it's impossible if you don't think he actually delights in you.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:04.169)
Oh wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:08.773)
Oh, that's just, that is so good. All right. So we need to repeat that. If you missed that, we tried to delight ourselves in the Lord, but that's impossible if we don't realize that he delights in us. Wow. That's, that's love. I like that one.
Chris (42:10.91)
And I... yeah.
Chris (42:24.022)
Isn't that beautiful? And so it's almost like the whole flipping the script thing again. And God flipped the script on me in that moment, and I realized, oh, you just answered my question. Like, you answered my prayer. My prayer was messy and not neat, but it was, okay, here it is. I'm afraid that I'm a failure. God, what do you want me to know? Lord, what do you want me to know about that? It was really, that's all I really prayed. And then I didn't really get anything in that moment, but he did not forget. And sure enough.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:28.482)
Yes.
Hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:36.441)
Yes. Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:48.016)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:51.395)
Yes. Mmm.
Chris (42:52.542)
It was, it was but 24 hours later and I was thinking about that. I went to night. Oh my gosh. He doesn't call me a failure. It calls me a delight.
Cecily Lachapelle (42:58.169)
Wow. Yeah. Yes. You know, it's so cool that you're talking about that because I just had my little granddaughter, Gianna, overnight two weekends ago and she used to hate brushing her teeth. Hate it.
and her parents have worked with her really hard about the importance of brushing her teeth and making it fun and they do it together. And she sits on the counter and everybody's brushing their teeth together. Like, look, it's a family thing. We're all brushing our teeth together. You're like the cool kids brushing your teeth. And so my husband was away. So Gianna was gonna be sleeping in the bed with me. So we're in our pajamas and we're in nanny's bathroom and she's sitting on the counter and she's just brushing her teeth,
Chris (43:36.213)
Oh, there we go.
Cecily Lachapelle (43:51.207)
And when you were just telling that story just now, I thought that is exactly how I felt having Gianna next to me and Brushing her teeth. I was delighting in her thinking she's adorable. She's sweet She's not gonna be here tomorrow night. I'm drinking in every minute There was not one thing I did with her down to brushing her teeth that I was not just delighting
Chris (44:04.451)
Wow.
Chris (44:17.058)
now.
Cecily Lachapelle (44:20.137)
in just the shape of her face and the way she'd look up at me and all the things. And we think that we're just not that cute to God. You know, we're just, no, maybe when we were kids or something, but we just don't see ourselves as delightful to Him. That's a huge part of repurposing a broken identity is allowing ourselves to really meditate on the fact that God delights in us. That's great.
Chris (44:25.236)
Yeah.
Chris (44:30.391)
Yeah.
Chris (44:33.87)
Come on.
Chris (44:47.978)
Amen. That is powerful. That's so powerful. And I think, you know, that's one of the reasons God put us in Christ and put Christ in us. That whole idea of being reconciled again, like, He loves us. Like, that's, He wants us to know how the depth of His love is insane. And that is the only thing that's going to chase away the fear. That's going to, and it's that encounter of His
Cecily Lachapelle (44:51.887)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (45:02.225)
Come on.
Cecily Lachapelle (45:09.345)
Thank you, Lord. Yes, yes. Mm. You're so good.
Chris (45:17.706)
where we become fully alive. And it's so wonderful. And that's where we get those little moments, snapshots of what he really thinks of us. And even when you're talking about the comparison trap or whatever other little snare of the enemy that gets us going down the bondage trail, God is so kind to reach out.
Cecily Lachapelle (45:19.763)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (45:29.114)
Hmm.
Chris (45:48.106)
with his love and it's the whole package. It's never everything about him flows from that. God is love. I was just before, get this interview. I was reading first John chapter four and the beauty of verse 17 into 18 about like, just as Jesus is, so are you in this world is such a beautiful gift of righteousness that we get. And now we can be confident in that place. And now
Cecily Lachapelle (45:49.024)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (45:53.817)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (46:08.198)
Mm. Yeah.
Chris (46:15.122)
in that place of righteousness, how the Spirit of God is like, just so faithful to help us see what is otherwise complete, we're completely blind to. And it's that beautiful journey of discovering Him. Come on.
Cecily Lachapelle (46:19.697)
Mm-hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (46:26.965)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (46:30.285)
Yes. And after we've seen it, we're like, how did I not know that? How did, how did they not know that about myself? How did I not see it? But there are certain things that we, we can't see because that veil sort of deception or whatever is over our eyes. Some of it is timing. Some of the God, God knows you're not ready to see this yet.
Chris (46:36.971)
Yes.
Chris (46:45.986)
Good, yeah.
Chris (46:51.882)
Yeah. Come on.
Cecily Lachapelle (46:55.037)
And then he just starts doing this work of prompting us with a holy dissatisfaction with where we are and letting us know, like a chicken, it's time to peck your way out of that egg. And it's frustrating as all heck. And we would really love it if someone would just come along and just be like, you know, okay, let me help you out. Let me make this faster.
Chris (47:09.859)
Wow.
Chris (47:18.822)
Hahaha! Yeah...
Cecily Lachapelle (47:20.013)
Let me make this faster for you, because I know you're struggling in there. I can sense your struggle. You want this to be over now. Let's like get to the other side. I want to like hatch and spread my wings, but I'm like so outgrown in this space. But if you help a chicken, it's going to die. If you help that little chick, it's got to do the work of pecking that shell with its little baby beak on its own. And when we're that chick, we're just ready to say God.
Chris (47:41.038)
So good. Come on.
Cecily Lachapelle (47:48.377)
Help, and he's always there, like you're saying, with his grace, at just the right time, giving us that encouragement.
Chris (47:54.558)
Yes, yes, I love that. And I think it is his kindness. I think if he uncovered it all at once, we die. You know, we just like die of agony. We just can't, you know, but yet it's beautiful. There is such beauty to that. He just knows he's so patient and so kind. And I love that. He doesn't deal a lot with that once, thank God. But I love that analogy of the chicken. There are definitely those moments where you just, the struggle is real.
Cecily Lachapelle (48:00.974)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (48:04.682)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (48:14.437)
Yeah.
Mm-mm.
Chris (48:23.862)
but it really is for a purpose. And boy, do we, in moments like this, where we can sit and chat about it, it's helpful. It's so helpful. But when you are in it, if someone said that to me, I'd be like, smack, shut up, you know? But yeah, there really is, there's such value to, much value to what you just said. It's very, very good.
Cecily Lachapelle (48:23.952)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (48:27.354)
No.
Cecily Lachapelle (48:38.853)
Right? Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (48:48.705)
and trusting that God is good. And that it just needs to be sort of the answer to all the doubt, all the questions. Anytime I've ever struggled because I've been in a struggle that's not ending, that it's not, I'm not.
Chris (48:51.374)
Come on.
Cecily Lachapelle (49:07.429)
getting my answer fast enough, I'm not getting relief fast enough, I'm not getting a breakthrough fast enough, whatever it is, it's not happening fast enough. It's easy to accuse God and say, I'm doing all the things here. I'm praying, I'm confessing, I'm doing all the things. And to feel like somehow maybe God isn't good, maybe he's good to everybody else, but not to me. But at the end of the day,
Chris (49:21.472)
Yeah.
Chris (49:32.82)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (49:36.993)
If I can trust that God delights in me, and this is not an identity issue, this is not because God is disowning me. This is not because I disappointed God.
Chris (49:40.736)
Yes.
Chris (49:47.114)
Hmm
Cecily Lachapelle (49:49.437)
He's finally woken up and realized I'm a hopeless mess. He's finally realized, like, I've finally annoyed him to the point where he's like, I'm sorry, I have to take a break from you, I gotta walk away. Just give me a couple days and then I'll be back on the scene, but right now you are so annoying. God doesn't ever do that. His delight is always for us. So if there's a delay, it's not a denial, it's not a rejection. The answer is coming in his timing.
Chris (49:53.43)
Hahaha!
Chris (50:05.707)
Hahaha
Chris (50:10.349)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (50:19.073)
Yeah. I also love the way you went through the process. I don't even know if you realize this, but in my book on broken identity and how we repurpose broken identity, I outlined three steps, and you actually just described those three steps in your story. Step number one is bring the loss and grief to the Lord with honesty and brokenness. You did that. You laid down on the couch and you just said, Lord.
Chris (50:20.531)
It's so good. Amen.
Chris (50:39.042)
Wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (50:48.601)
You know, I feel like I'm a failure. What do you want to tell me about that? And you know, for anybody who's read the book or who's like, well, how do I bring the loss and grief with honesty to the Lord? Well, there you go. Lie down on the couch and talk to God about it. I mean, whatever it is, go for a walk in the woods or play with your dog and just pour out your heart to God, but that honesty and that vulnerability is the first. Important key. The second one is search your Bible to discover who Jesus is and who you are because.
Chris (51:01.932)
Hahaha
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (51:18.657)
of who he is. So because Chris had the Word of God hidden in his heart, the Lord just triggered that memory that I delight in you. But the only reason Chris could know that God delighted in him is because the Word of God taught him that. And the Lord gave him that toothbrush experience to drive home a truth he already knew about God but was struggling to actually feel and experience in his heart.
Chris (51:27.675)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Chris (51:46.027)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (51:48.045)
And then three, and this is for people who really want to do this work, is memorize specific scriptures to renew our minds and to use as weapons against the enemy. So Chris, talk to me about, because I know you've done this, talk to me about how you use scripture as a weapon and as a comfort.
Chris (52:05.352)
Hahaha.
Chris (52:13.486)
That's really good. Well, I mean, for me, it's such an important thing to just be in the word. And by in the word, I mean, that could be reading it, that could be listening to it, and that can also be when...
you are listening to other people teach. I love the first-hand encounter with God and sometimes I'm in someone else's like, let me show you the word. But all of those things are like seeds going out and being planted. And so I think just having that discipline in general is one of the most important things. But yeah, to your point, I think in that he's always so faithful to just, oh look, that's the thing you're going through.
Cecily Lachapelle (52:44.474)
Yeah.
Chris (53:02.354)
And even just that general thing today, for me, like what was getting stirred up in my heart was the love of God. And I just thought, you know what, I'm just going to go and read that. So that's what I did. You know, it wasn't like, I'm going to make this into it. But I went into first Corinthians 13 and I just, I just read in a couple of different versions and I went through 14 as well, which is a little bit more hairy, but really good still. Um, but 13 is great. It's, it's really powerful. And I just thought, okay, like.
Cecily Lachapelle (53:02.438)
Yeah!
Cecily Lachapelle (53:14.31)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (53:25.637)
Yeah.
Chris (53:29.962)
This is the more excellent way as he ends chapter 12. Um, and yet I show you more excellent way and it's the way of love. And then he has all of his thoughts in 14 one. He's like, so pursue love, pursue love, but earnestly desire spiritual gifts, especially that you would prophesy, you know, the best gifts for love's sake, edifying and building up and all this. So, but the heart of it is, is love. And then I went over to first John chapter four and I was like,
Cecily Lachapelle (53:33.357)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (53:42.929)
Hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (53:48.757)
Yeah.
Chris (53:59.602)
And then I kind of expounded from there and went a little backwards and read some of three and then went floors and five. But this heart of things right in chapter four, where perfect love cast at all fear and how fear has to do with judgment. And those who have those who fear not made perfect in love. And as I was just, it's more still kind of brewing in me a little bit, but there's a lot that he says about being in Christ surrounding that very chapter and
Cecily Lachapelle (54:04.076)
Yeah.
Chris (54:29.154)
there is such a foundation in that. So for me, it's like, okay, I just, I don't know what it is, but I sense something on that thing, that verse or that. There's an idea here that, okay, I'm just gonna let it turn over in me and I'm gonna meditate on it, like chewing it. Maybe this and there are certain things that stood out to me in the fact, but I couldn't necessarily right now kind of articulate it.
Cecily Lachapelle (54:40.919)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (54:46.487)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (54:51.664)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (54:57.113)
So right now it sounds like that's in its raw form, but you keep chewing on that word, knowing that revelation, as it evolves, as it sort of opens like a flower, right now it's in that like all tight bud form, but as each petal starts to loosen and unfold, that truth that you're finding in the word is gonna go from truth to experience. It's going to become something you totally,
Chris (55:13.195)
Yes.
Chris (55:23.543)
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (55:26.181)
own and can live in and it's going to bring comfort in some areas, but it's also going to be a weapon against fear that would try to come against you.
Chris (55:36.138)
Yes, yes, powerful. I think I've also, obviously I've read those passages a lot of different times, you know, and so there are just times where scripture hits different and it's part of that journey with them and so yeah, so I appreciate that analogy of like the flower that's waiting to blossom. It's good.
Cecily Lachapelle (55:39.899)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (55:48.366)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (55:57.765)
Mmm.
Yes. Yeah, for me, my favorite flower, I don't grow them yet. It's always my goal. Every spring, I'm like, I'm going to grow peonies. Some people say peonies. Some people say peonies. I don't know. I say peonies, but you may say peonies. Yes. Like dinner plate size flowers. And that the bulb is like this tight ball. It's so like, so tight. Yeah. And then
Chris (56:11.786)
Okay, are they really big? Okay, then I've seen those are so gorgeous. Yes
Chris (56:23.042)
So good. Yeah, Barry. I've seen them.
Cecily Lachapelle (56:28.621)
everything just opens up and it's just these like breathtaking, they smell amazing, they look amazing. Yes, yes, exactly. And I feel like using the word of God that way where we dig in, we like
Chris (56:33.33)
Yeah, yeah. And the petals are almost like, they almost look like tissue paper in a way, but there's so many of them. Yeah, they're really pretty.
Cecily Lachapelle (56:49.137)
There's so much more here. I'm just scratching the surface. God, I know there's so much more you wanna teach me. I found that when the year that the Lord dropped the word tabernacle in my heart, I thought like, well, you know, I know about tabernacle kinda, I guess, but if you're giving me this word, I obviously don't know anything. So I took the year and I'm still doing it to dig in about tabernacle and it completely...
Chris (57:00.758)
Yes, wow.
Cecily Lachapelle (57:18.801)
completely changed my walk with him. I had no idea how that one word was going to become a lifestyle. It was going to become a revelation about the triune God. That word was going to actually cause my eyes to well up with tears.
Chris (57:22.762)
Hmm.
Chris (57:31.51)
Wow.
Chris (57:37.569)
Mm-hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (57:43.353)
because of memories of being in my tabernacle time with the Lord, I had no idea that one, what that one word was gonna be. I just saw the bulb. I saw it, you know, tight and beautiful and feeling like, oh God, I'm gonna hang in with you till every last petal is open. And it's still opening and it's still casting its fragrance into my life, into my secret place. It's, it will.
Chris (57:53.503)
Yeah, yeah.
Chris (57:59.978)
Yeah, that's good.
Chris (58:08.238)
That's good. That's so good.
Cecily Lachapelle (58:12.921)
It will forever be opening as long as I choose to pursue it. But at the very beginning, it was like, I know there's a lot here. Let's go on the journey. Let's just start and see what the word of God unfolds.
Chris (58:25.718)
Yeah. I love that. I love that so much. It makes me think right away it just triggered me because I was talking with Adriano, talking about the beginning of the year. And we're doing certain things right now of being like, we're going to seek the Lord and set aside these other things in order to really have a clear focus. And I was thinking about the analogy of how a trellis helps aid.
Cecily Lachapelle (58:44.078)
Yeah.
Chris (58:55.33)
growth and like the structure of our lives and how we... Anyways, and what you were just kind of saying like to that final point, I really feel this is a year where God is setting up something new for me or leading me to structure certain aspects of just an everyday whatever, you know, like here's this time, here's that time, the rhythm of the day to have those moments with that bulb.
we're paying that close attention or whatever that is, it's like something that helps facilitate that growth. I've always admired that you really have done that very well. And it's always exciting to hear, this is the fruit, that's hard work, but it's fruitful to do that. So I've started this year thinking deeply about that and really what does that look like for me? What is that rhythm?
Cecily Lachapelle (59:41.055)
Mm. Yeah.
Chris (59:50.89)
And different seasons is probably gonna look like different things, but it's an interesting thing right now. Anyways, I know it's not entirely having to do, but it kind of fits in with that third point about how important the word is, but how important, how are we structuring our lives around it so that it's just the little ins consistently over time that really help facilitate that growth. He's the one that gives the increase in the end. He's the Vine Dresser. But there is a...
Cecily Lachapelle (59:51.407)
Thank you.
Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:00:00.421)
Mmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:00:08.624)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:00:16.059)
Yeah.
Chris (01:00:21.995)
There is a part we play. I don't, I, you know, it's mysterious. I say that, but it's mysterious. It's not just like, yeah, easy. Okay. On to the next thing, but yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:00:26.038)
Absolutely.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:00:30.165)
Yes.
Absolutely. And I think that's the work that we do in repurposing our pain. It's the work that we do in repurposing a broken identity. It's first of all, admitting that we somehow along the line grabbed onto a false identity and having the courage to be willing to let it go, even though we don't know what's on the other side, even though we don't know what we're stepping into for both Chris and for me, it was actually literally stepping out of the comfort and
Chris (01:00:47.448)
Yeah.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:01:01.875)
security of a role, of a position that brought in a paycheck, that brought in identity, that brought in accolades and success and like stroked our need to be needed and, you know, wanted and affirmed and like, oh, you're so good at that. And stripping it to there's no people here. I'm sitting alone. You know, that's a big, huge step to take that risk of identity and financially and all of that to say, God, I am opening my life wide open.
Chris (01:01:13.812)
Hahaha
Cecily Lachapelle (01:01:32.069)
for whatever, go ahead, wipe the whiteboard and write what you want on this whiteboard. I'm gonna create that space for you. And that literally is peeling your fingers off the identity that you are grabbing on so tightly to and not realizing how much of your identity is wrapped into that. Some of you that are listening to this might be in that exact same spot. You might know that God is calling you either into ministry, out of ministry,
It might be calling you into marriage, which is a huge change and whatever. It might be calling you to a mission field or a huge financial gift or whatever it is. And you're realizing, wow, my identity is wrapped up in the security of this bank account or my identity is wrapped up in the affirmation that I get from being good at this and whatever those things are. And
for us to do this work, when we grab onto a false identity, or we have always lived in it and didn't realize that we did, like Chris is describing his journey of realizing somewhere along the line, I believed I was a failure. And so grabbing onto a false identity came out of the fact that I was trying to be not a failure through the things I did. So.
Some of that work is just the honesty of creating enough space in our lives, enough white space, enough quiet space, where we allow the Lord to peel back the covers and that we're bold and courageous to know that if He says it's time, it's time for me to show this to you, that the grace has already been provided for the work to be done. He's already got ways.
Chris (01:03:17.762)
So good.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:03:19.757)
The first and foremost way he's gonna use is his word. And then he's gonna make his word alive through the Spirit. And he could bring that in like Chris was saying, through a person, through a podcast, you know, whatever. Your neighbor could say something to you and just you're turning back to go into your garage and the Holy Spirit is going, listen to that again, because that was actually me speaking through your unsafe neighbor. It can happen through so many ways. But the point being, God doesn't ever want us
Chris (01:03:41.427)
Yeah. Good.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:03:48.965)
to stay stuck and go around the same mountain over and over and over, or get burnt out, or become exhausted, or be constantly striving, striving towards something that we think is gonna make us feel important or worthy or loved or delighted in. And the only thing that can do that is God himself. There's a really great quote that I put in my book,
Chris (01:03:51.566)
Hmm.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:04:18.669)
I wish I wrote it, but I put it in because he wrote it by John Burke. And I'm just going to paraphrase it, but he basically said, who gets to say who you are, who gets to identify you. Only your creator has the right to define who you are. And he wrote this book about people who had so many near death experiences. And the thing that they, that blew them all away right away was the love of Jesus when they saw him was the love that was there, the acceptance that was there.
Chris (01:04:43.246)
Hmm. Love, man. Yes.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:04:47.341)
And that even if they felt like a complete failure and felt completely unworthy, like, what am I doing here? I don't belong here with the Lord. There was just this love, like, I delight in you. I love you. I'm just so pumped up with love for you. And they also, that was their first takeaway. The second takeaway with many of them was how much they were not walking in the identity that God had created for them.
Chris (01:05:05.974)
Thank you.
Chris (01:05:17.56)
There we go. I'm so sorry. I stopped the recording because my earphones died. So keep saying what you're saying because I think it'll all come together.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:05:25.825)
Okay. So anyway, as we wrap up this podcast, I just want to thank you so much for joining our discussion today. And I also want to invite you to join our live Q&A discussion when it gets scheduled. And I'm going to be posting that on all of my social media. It's so important we know that God has created our identity. But some of you might be wondering, like, how do I even get honest enough with God?
How do I do that? What does that even look like? Maybe you have questions about how you repurpose your broken identity into the identity that God created for you. Or maybe you've been doing this work with God and you'd love to share part of your story. We'd love to hear about that as well. So make sure to share this interview on social media so other people can benefit. And if you haven't already, subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening to it.
whether it's on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or on YouTube, and also join my email list on my website, which is high so you can receive my newsletter and see my blog. Well, friends, we are on a pursuit of more of Jesus together. None of us have arrived, but my goal for this podcast is to always be offering you something nourishing.
that will strengthen and encourage and challenge you as you pursue Jesus in your messy everyday life. So until next time, may you walk in the favor of God, and I will see you in the next podcast.
Cecily Lachapelle (01:07:08.566)
end.