A Mother’s Surrender: How Ashley Hawkins Turned Pain into Purpose

What do you do when life hands you a battle you never saw coming? In this powerful conversation, Ashley Hawkins opens up about her daughter Eliana’s fight against a rare and aggressive cancer—one so uncommon that even researching it felt like an impossible task. She shares the heartbreaking decisions, the relentless pursuit of hope, and the moment she and her family had to choose between treatment and comfort measures.

But in the middle of the uncertainty, Ashley discovered something deeper—unexpected blessings, unshakable purpose, and the kind of faith that can only be forged in the fire. She reveals how worship music became a lifeline, fear gave way to strength, and how, no matter the outcome, God’s faithfulness remained.

📖 Want to dive deeper into repurposing pain? Cecily’s book, Repurpose Your Pain, is available on her website: https://bit.ly/repurposeyourpainbookpurchase  and on Amazon: https://amzn.to/47DMW9C .

🎧 After you listen, take a moment to reflect: What fear do you need to surrender today? Share your thoughts with us or tag us on social media—we’d love to hear your story!

Takeaways from this episode: 

🔹 When life feels impossible, shifting your focus to the blessings—no matter how small—can change everything. What if your pain holds a greater purpose?

🔹 Fear whispers lies, but faith speaks truth. Trusting God’s plan, even when it makes no sense, can bring the peace your heart is desperate for.

🔹 You weren’t meant to carry your burdens alone. Surrounding yourself with the right people and immersing yourself in worship can be the lifeline you need.

🔹 God’s goodness isn’t dependent on your circumstances. Even in the storm, He remains faithful. Do you believe that?

🔹 Music has power—especially worship. Creating an atmosphere of faith can shift your mindset, break fear’s grip, and give you the strength to keep going.

Which one of these speaks to you the most? Drop a 🙌 if this encourages you today! ⬇️ #FaithOverFear #GodIsFaithful #PurposeInPain

Chapters

• 0:00 Rest!
• 4:02 Rare and Agressive Cancer
• 5:18 Challenges of Researching the Cancer
• 6:51 Treatment Options
• 7:42 Choosing Treatment over Comfort Measures
• 9:08 Chemo Medications and Side Effects
• 10:06 Starting Chemo
• 11:40 Quarantine and Support
• 12:47 Blessings in the Midst of Challenges
• 15:12 Finding Purpose in the Hospital
• 18:36 God's Faithfulness
• 19:23 Counting Blessings
• 20:04 Trusting God's Plan
• 20:46 Living in Faith, Not Fear
• 23:47 Radical Improvement and Cancer-Free Status
• 25:37 Meeting Another Child with the Same Cancer
• 28:01 Dealing with Grief and Fear
• 29:13 Overcoming Fear and Trusting God
• 31:26 Choosing Faith Over Fear
• 36:09 The Power of Worship Music
• 37:43 Importance of a Solid Support Group
• 40:03 God's Faithfulness in All Outcomes
• 44:46 Finding Strength in Worship

Transcript

Cecily (00:02.715)

Hello everybody and welcome to the Higher Pursuit podcast. We're so glad that you joined us. And if you're looking for content that will encourage you, build you up in your pursuit of Jesus, and sometimes challenge you a little bit, then you have tuned into the right podcast. And in case you're new here, the series that we're in right now is called Repurposing Our Pain, based on my book, Repurpose Your Pain. And today I am joined again for part two.

by my wonderful guest, my firstborn, my beautiful daughter, Ashley Hawkins. And we described her in the last episode. She's a native New Englander. She has been married to her husband, Matt, for 17 years. She graduated from nursing school, worked as a nurse for nine years, and she came from a really large family. We had six kids. My husband and I blended a family of six kids, of which Ashley was the oldest.

Cecily (00:57.197)

And she has gone on to have a pretty sizable family of her own, four children ranging in ages from six to five months old. And Ashley says that being a mom is the greatest gift that God's ever given her. And her kids really are amazing. I mean, I know I'm a little biased because I'm nanny, but they really are. They really are so sweet. They're good. Ashley and her husband have some investment properties that they manage together.

Ashley Hawkins (01:11.726)

I like them. I like them.

Cecily (01:26.751)

And he's got a podcast of his own, which is a whole nother story. It's an amazing live stream where he helps people learn how to purchase properties and build their investment property portfolio. And that's called the Lumberjack Landlord. But Ashley's the back office. Pardon me? yeah, yeah. That's right. YouTube and live streams. Yes. And so Ashley's the back office person.

Ashley Hawkins (01:43.692)

Yeah, YouTube, YouTube, not podcast, but same thing.

Cecily (01:54.965)

and she does their accounting and she handles also a bunch of other types of repairs and plumbing and door lock changes. And my gosh, you almost always see Ashley with a tool belt in somewhere nearby. So in our last episode, I did the icebreaker question where I asked Ashley if her life was a movie, what the title would be. And so refresh our memory, Ash, what is your life story called? So awesome. Awesome.

Ashley Hawkins (02:19.714)

I say counting your blessings or counting my blessings.

Cecily (02:24.667)

Awesome. And I loved it because in the last episode, she said that while she thinks that maybe Anne Hathaway might be a closer fit to her sort of facial structure and that kind of thing, which I totally agree, Jessica Chastain is her favorite actress as far as, know, she does. Yes. So, oh my gosh. And she does, she does obviously must really do her research.

Ashley Hawkins (02:41.942)

She does so good with people when she becomes the person. You're like, she blows my mind.

She's so good. She's so good.

Cecily (02:53.627)

She is amazing. Ashley, when we left off last week, had just hit the place in her valley where she was in the chapel at Mass General Hospital and had just handed this whole horrible situation over to the Lord. And just to recap, in case you didn't get a chance to hear part one, I'm gonna do a super quick recap. Ashley.

Ashley Hawkins (03:13.742)

Mm.

Cecily (03:20.973)

had just had her third baby four months earlier, Eliana. So Eliana is four and a half months old at this time. She gets very sick. Ashley is a nurse. She looks down at this baby knowing something's wrong, follows her gut, rushes the baby to the ER. And within a very short period of time, they find a massive tumor through an x-ray. Ashley and Eliana are rushed to Mass General that evening. And in a

Over the next few days, this is over Labor Day weekend, so there's all these delays, all the people they need to do MRIs and CAT scans and all these things, they're not on call. So there's all the delay of what's going on, what's happening with my baby. When they finally do find out what's going on, they see there's a large tumor, but they're reassured, don't worry. There are these tumors that happen in children.

Ashley Hawkins (04:02.21)

there.

Cecily (04:16.761)

and they do usually attach themselves to something like a kidney and that's what this looks like. It's probably Wilms tumor. It's 90 something percent recovery rate. Don't even sweat it. So they go through the surgery. They're not sweating it at all. Eliana seems to be bouncing back after the surgery. So they're feeling like this is great. We're in the clear. Yeah, we got to go through chemo, but you know, 92 % success rate. You know, we just, we're not even going to be worried. And then the pathology comes back.

And Ashley is alone because Matt has to be home in New Hampshire an hour away taking care of their other two little children. And Ashley has to get Matt on the phone. They find out from the surgeon who comes in with the pathology report that this is really, really, really bad. Malignant rhabdoid tumor. It sounds like something from the Dark Lord from Star Wars. I mean, it's just like, and yeah, it is. It is the Dark Lord.

Ashley Hawkins (04:52.738)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (05:09.87)

No, this is kinda what it is.

Cecily (05:13.773)

And there's what, what did you say? It's like 25 cases in the country a year.

Ashley Hawkins (05:17.966)

Yeah, like 25 cases in the US are diagnosed a year and out of those, it's like 92 % of children die within four months of diagnosis. So it's very aggressive.

Cecily (05:21.349)

Yeah.

Cecily (05:30.075)

And when you have an illness that only has 25 people, even though they are 25 small, innocent children, that's what they call an orphan disease. Nobody's throwing research money at that, not for 25 people.

Ashley Hawkins (05:43.03)

Well, also it's also impossible to throw research money at it because it's so aggressive. These children are all dying so quickly that you can't even really study it because it, you can't study it because, and the ones that survive, it's such a minuscule amount that they can't even make statistical analysis with it because it's so small and it's really just a one-off. It's like a one or a two.

Cecily (05:50.043)

you

Ashley Hawkins (06:12.286)

One case here, two case children here are alive. So it's very hard. You can't even really do it if you wanted to. So.

Cecily (06:15.941)

Yeah.

Cecily (06:20.709)

Wow. So in today's episode, we are talking about repurposing your fear. And I'm sure those of you listening have already figured out why Ashley would have been engulfed in fear. so Ashley, why don't you now flash forward us to when you start working with the oncology team and some of those conversations that where you had to really fight fear. What was their report? And then.

Ashley Hawkins (06:26.113)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily (06:48.835)

what were you having to do with those reports?

Ashley Hawkins (06:51.502)

So we knew that it was rare and aggressive to start. And then they asked to do a brain MRI before we went home. And right before we go home, the oncologist comes back in and Matt's with me at this point, because he's going to take us home. And he's like, OK. He goes, he's like, luckily, it's not in her brain.

He goes, but you know, here what we have for treatment options. He goes, you can, he goes, and a lot of people, the chemo is very aggressive for this cancer. a lot of kids don't, you chemo can be very draining and kids may not tolerate it. He goes, so no one would fault you if you just wanted to go down a comfort measures route and just bring her home today and basically keep her comfortable until she left.

Cecily (07:35.653)

basically just bring her home to die.

Ashley Hawkins (07:42.22)

this earth and Matt and I looked at each other and we said, no, no. Like it doesn't, it wasn't even one of those where you had to really have a conversation and we just like, we're like, yeah, so that's off the table. So that's a no. I said, so what's our next option? And they said, you know, we do have to consult with some other specialties around. Like I think Toronto had a lot of research on like Toronto and I think,

Cecily (07:53.221)

Right.

Ashley Hawkins (08:09.9)

There's one doctor at Boston Children's that are like the leading in this cancer around here. So they're like, we're going to do some consults, kind of try to create a chemo regimen for her. Cause she had to heal from surgery anyway. You couldn't rush into chemo while she has an open wound. So we had a couple of weeks where she had to heal before we started chemo anyway. So they're like, we're going to do our research and get back to you. And so she healed. We had our post-op appointment with a surgeon and she was doing great.

And then we met with the doctor and she's going through all the chemo's that they're doing and she's like this appointment takes forever. Because I mean I've discussed medications before but I've never discussed chemo medications. And so she's going through every single med and she's like okay and so here are the side effects. Here's the risks. Here are the risks. And it's it's like and further cancers.

Cecily (08:55.066)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (09:08.352)

and further cancers, all these ones that is hearing loss, loss of whatever. And it's like all of these really nasty side effects, you're like, that sucks. This is not a great situation. And so you're like, okay, but, all right. And it's like, but I feel like I'm supposed to do this and here we are. So obviously we start chemo, each chemo,

Cecily (09:10.958)

now.

Cecily (09:20.335)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (09:37.492)

session because she was so little had to be delivered in the actual hospital on the pediatric floor like we'd be admitted to the hospital and then they would monitor her for the amount of days that we did it. So she did 10 cycles. Each cycle was approximately three weeks long where we would be hospitalized for either three to five days and then the cycle continues where they do

things around the clinic, then you go in and you get admitted again. So we started that and it was just a whirlwind. And I just remember starting it and being like, I don't even know how this is gonna go. I just remember the...

Cecily (10:23.459)

Yeah, yeah. Let me pause you for one second. Tell the listeners what the impact was of this on your family because your whole world got turned upside down, not just because of what was happening with Eliana, but the impact.

Ashley Hawkins (10:40.564)

Yeah. So in the previous podcast, I kind of told people that Sam had just started preschool and we were going to, you know, he was enjoying it. So he had two days of preschool. And then we basically realized that this chemo was going to be so aggressive that she'd be so neutropenic, which means like she'd have a lower immune system. So we're like, it's like, yeah, we are going to have to pull him out of preschool. So Sam got

pulled out of preschool after two days. And so he didn't get to go to his first year of preschool and he had already started to make some friends. And so he was, and he was just looking at me he goes, I'm going to school. And I'm like, you did it, you did school. Woohoo, good for you. You did your couple days of school. And I'm like, luckily he was three. Yes, yes.

Cecily (11:29.467)

My word. But your entire family had to go into quarantine, had to go into lockdown. Like you couldn't have workmen come into your house to fix anything. It was like COVID. It was like COVID all over again. You'd been in quarantine for COVID, had a few months out of quarantine, and then you're right back into what you, how long was that cycle? Nine months?

Ashley Hawkins (11:40.514)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (11:52.33)

Yeah, was something like nine, 10 months, nine months. so yeah, we went. Yep, we went in district quarantine. didn't we the only people that left the house really were me and Eliana when we went to Mass General. So that was it. Everybody else did strict quarantine. Luckily, my husband works from home, has always worked from home so he could still do his job, but no one could watch the kids. So like when I would be in Mass General, like then he would have the kids most of the time. So it was a lot. And then

Cecily (11:55.707)

Couldn't see anybody, couldn't do anything.

Ashley Hawkins (12:22.228)

thank god, I do say, so this is my count of my blessings, luckily she got sick and we had to go into straight quarantine after COVID. So so many things were in place for car side. So like we could get our groceries car side, we could get all these things car side. So so many things were set up for contactless deliveries and stuff. we, our family was much more blessed than.

Cecily (12:35.119)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (12:47.97)

families that have come years before us where none of those systems were in place. And like, how do you get groceries? There were no delivery services. There was no way to get groceries before. But now we could easily eat, much eat more easily do it. So it was, so that was a good thing, but it did change everything. And I'm a very social person. So when I didn't thinking of not having my friends or no, was like, and for Sam and Brynn, they're in the beginning stages of.

Cecily (12:52.111)

Yeah.

Cecily (13:01.435)

Yeah, I know.

Ashley Hawkins (13:16.486)

needing to have friendships and learning those and it's just kind of like you're in the house. Sorry. And they would go, they would look around and be like, can we go there or can we do things? But Sam and Bryn are such amazing kids. They really are. And they quickly got it that Eliana was in a special season. She was getting special medicine. That's why we had to do certain things and they never resented her for it. They never freaked out.

Cecily (13:21.935)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cecily (13:44.464)

No.

Ashley Hawkins (13:44.514)

Their only thing that they redid was, so when Eliana gets better, can we do that? When Eliana gets better, can we do that? And it was just, had their little wish list, but they just knew when Eliana gets better and we'll wait. And then they never asked like how many more days or how many, whatever. They just said, can we do that when she gets better? And it was like, yep, that sounds like a great idea. Okay. And then that was it. And they were so good about her treatment. They, I think Sam had some,

Cecily (13:48.507)

Yeah.

Cecily (14:06.704)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (14:15.136)

residual like freaking out because he's the one that kind of saw me leave the house with Ellie Bean originally in this panic of her being not being well. I just like left the house. He could tell Matt and I were kind of panicked and I didn't come home for over a week. So then he was just kind of like so he had a lot I think more when I would be home he was like

Cecily (14:26.48)

Yes.

Cecily (14:33.593)

Right.

Cecily (14:38.02)

Yes.

Ashley Hawkins (14:42.944)

and like he'd sleep with me and he was just like, don't go. You know, so we had to be really good about telling them, hey, mom's gonna be in the hospital with the baby. Mom's doing this, but it's okay, we'll be home. And we had to constantly tell them like, this is a day, I'll see you at dinnertime or this is a couple of days. And so we did that. And, but I will say, I think one of the things that about this is that even though I was in a hard season,

Cecily (14:46.203)

No.

Ashley Hawkins (15:12.234)

I think I had to see once I was able to give my fear to the Lord and he was able to help break my fear, I realized part of my purpose and part of my purpose I really believe was that I was supposed to go on like a mission field. Like the hospital is a really dark time and a dark place for a lot of people, not just nurses that don't really know Jesus, not just doctors who don't really believe in Jesus, but like families and you would see.

Cecily (15:27.013)

Yeah.

Cecily (15:31.939)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (15:41.056)

all these parents that are also scared to death for their kids, whether or not their kids were battling cancer or something else, they were scared to death. I had a few admissions where the other kid on the other side, it just seemed so hard for them. And I would just be able to pray for them across the, cross through the curtain and just ask for the presence of God to be there. And you know, and

Cecily (15:51.097)

Mmm.

Ashley Hawkins (16:10.858)

just saying offer support like one mom their child basically kind of got whisked away to have like an ng-tube put in they're like we're just gonna take him now and put in the ng-tube and then we'll be back and it was like this poor mom was kind of like and i was able to just say are you okay can i do something for you and like just give her a hug and be like you know i that is really tough and i'm very sorry and you know it's just kind of like you

Cecily (16:29.883)

Yeah.

Cecily (16:37.467)

Hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (16:40.366)

I think once you give to the Lord whatever he can say, this is what I have for you to do. And that was really amazing. And a lot of the nurses would turn to me and they'd be like, we don't know how you're so calm. And it was just be able to say, well, this is why, you know, like this is why. And they're like, we just don't know how you stay so put together. And we just love coming in your room and we just love being here.

Cecily (16:49.488)

Really.

Cecily (16:54.383)

Yes. Yeah.

Cecily (16:59.321)

Yes. Yeah.

Cecily (17:09.69)

Come on. Yeah. So we're going to press pause here now because I hope that the listeners just heard what Ashley said. So she had a decision that didn't even seem logical. Her decision against fear was to repurpose that fear into an unshakable trust in the goodness of God. However, he was going to work this out. She made the decision in the chapel that God is good.

Ashley Hawkins (17:10.558)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (17:32.109)

Yeah.

Cecily (17:39.619)

I'm going to trust him. I'm going to love him. And the moment that she was able to surrender that worst case scenario to the Lord, then the hold of fear, the kidnapping power of fear to come up and just abuse her and torment her and beat her up constantly with thoughts and scenarios and, what about this? And, you know, what if you didn't do this right? Or maybe you should try this medication? All of the things that could happen in that whole

Ashley Hawkins (17:46.808)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily (18:09.047)

journey of all those almost a year long, when she made put the stake in the ground of faith in the Lord and faith in his goodness, she was able then to use that peace as a weapon for not just herself, not just her family, not just her children, but for other people in the hospital. And folks, that is why we need to repurpose our pain.

Ashley Hawkins (18:36.642)

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Cecily (18:36.795)

It's not just for us. Yes, of course it's for us. Nobody wants to live in pain. Nobody wants to cycle around. But once you own that ground, once you take that ground, the violent take the kingdom of God by force, the Bible tells us when you own that ground, first of all, nobody can push you off because you know that, you know, that, know, no, no, no, I own this territory. I know who God is and I purchased this with blood, sweat and tears on my knees with God.

Ashley Hawkins (18:47.778)

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.

Cecily (19:05.499)

crying my eyes out and God answered me and met me. So there's no way you can convince me that God is not real and that this isn't the ground I own. But then once you own that ground, you have the power and the authority then to go out and bring the kingdom of God that truth that you now own. You have the power and the authority to impact the people who don't have that truth. And what an amazing thing. What an amazing thing when a nurse comes into Ashley's room and says,

Ashley Hawkins (19:23.904)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (19:28.76)

Yep. Yep.

Cecily (19:35.247)

man, I don't know how you're doing it. I don't know how you have this kind of piece because in case you missed it, Ashley was a nurse for nine years. Nurses can be the most freaked out patients in the world because they've seen all the things that can go wrong. And when people are talking about medical procedures, the average layman like me is like, I don't know what that means. So I'm not going to worry about it. A nurse or a doctor is like, no, I know all the things that that can mean. And this could be really, really bad.

Ashley Hawkins (19:49.016)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (20:00.578)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Cecily (20:04.823)

and to take all of her training and her logic and to surrender it to the Lord and say, yeah, that's true. This is a very, very bad diagnosis by God. So that is so awesome. That is so awesome. You had some conversations with your lead oncologist and questions, things, if I recall, and you can correct me if I'm remembering this wrong, that you had one conversation where you flat out told her.

Ashley Hawkins (20:11.822)

Yep.

Cecily (20:32.575)

Well, we're trusting that Eliana is healed and that she's going to be healed. And your doctor's saying, well, I don't believe in that, but you know, I hope for your sake you get whatever, whatever it's going to take. then, so flesh out that conversation.

Ashley Hawkins (20:46.414)

So I.

tell our oncologist A, like she probably wasn't, she definitely isn't a believer, but and I think there was always an atmosphere around us of just like very like, like I'm treating you but I know you're not gonna be here long. Like it just feels like I'm gonna do this and we're gonna give it our best shot but we're gonna see you go.

Cecily (20:56.336)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily (21:09.345)

Oof. Ugh.

Ashley Hawkins (21:19.134)

And so like they early on got palliative involved. And for people that don't know palliative care, palliative is associated with hospice. They're usually like together, but palliative doesn't necessarily always mean hospice. It's just a way to keep patients comfortable. Like even if they're not actively dying, you can do palliative. So, but they're like, we would like to get them involved because a lot of times they're really good with helping with other, when they're really nauseous and we've run out of options, like they're really good at finding tools for that and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, sure.

Cecily (21:29.275)

you

Ashley Hawkins (21:49.164)

For me, was like, fine, bring Palliative in. I know she's not gonna die. I know you think she's gonna die, but it's fine. So bring Palliative in, it's fine. Cool. And in all those conversations kind of went similarly where she was like, okay, we trust that we're gonna see something. And I was like, I think it'll be fine. She's doing great. And they're like, well, a lot of babies may not do well with chemo and whatever. like, I think she's gonna do great.

And then she did and she crushed chemo. She didn't just do well. Like she was really good. Like she like never had nausea. Like she really to never had nausea. like the worst that she did was her bone marrow got really tired at the end and she had to have lots of blood transfusions and lots of platelet transfusions. But that's like pretty well. Otherwise she was a really happy kid. She was always smiling and laughing and it was just kind of like.

Cecily (22:21.253)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (22:47.122)

And I think one of the things that I always love to say, glory to God, is I noticed, so Palliative saw me every single time I was in the hospital, whether in the clinic or admitted upstairs, Palliative always came in and asked how I was and I'd be like, we're great, she's doing awesome. And they're like, yeah, so do you need anything? I was like, nope. And they're like, can I just get you water then? I'm like, sure, water sounds great. And then I just noticed that they just stopped coming.

Cecily (23:16.549)

Mmm, so great.

Ashley Hawkins (23:17.058)

And I was like, and I was like, I was like, so I was right. And they just stopped coming. And I fell off their list because there was never anything they could do for Eliana. She never needed anything. She was crushing it. We had our first three. So she got scans. She's had scans every three months since her diagnosis. And the first three months scan showed a radical improvement.

Honestly, our oncologist said, she's like, all I want to see, she goes, all I want to see is just that it hasn't spread or grown. She goes, that would be a win. If that's all that happened, she goes, we have won, seriously. We're like, okay. So when we saw a radical improvement, she was like, okay, like this is good. And then at her next three months scan, they didn't see any cancer. And she was like, okay, this is really good. And she's like,

Cecily (23:47.493)

Yeah.

Cecily (24:00.453)

Right.

Cecily (24:10.107)

Praise God.

Hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (24:14.956)

We can say that she's cancer free, but in active treatment. And so we continued along and then every three months she's been cancer free since then, since that day. So she finished all her treatment. Everybody fell in love with her and you know, she's just like the easiest kid to take into a hospital. She's super easy.

Cecily (24:28.697)

Yes.

Cecily (24:40.933)

She is, and she is a little fighter. It's so funny because now that Eliana is healthy, like has all her strength back, we can see that she's got this little spark personality. She's just got this of like Ashley's first two are so laid back. They're so chill. They're so easy going. And then Eliana is like, no, no, it's gonna be like this. And I told Ashley, said she had to be a fighter. She had to be determined.

Ashley Hawkins (24:50.609)

yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (25:00.504)

First, we just.

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (25:08.546)

Yeah. What's funny, her as a baby, she was just chill and happy and go lucky. And she was very much like the first two, like just whatever, it's cool. Any medical procedure, whatever, it's cool. Like she'd just be like, fine. And then I the chemo fog wore off. Then all of a sudden the chemo fog wore off and this lion came out and she was just like, I looked at each other. like, is this really you? Is this your real?

Cecily (25:10.489)

because that was the nature.

Cecily (25:24.059)

Mmm.

Hahaha

Cecily (25:31.779)

Yes.

Cecily (25:37.243)

you

Ashley Hawkins (25:37.742)

And we're like, oh, yeah, okay. So, wow. And she's a bulldozer ever since. You guys can show us she's a bulldozer. She's always been one, guess, but now she can show us that she is.

Cecily (25:42.796)

Yep.

Cecily (25:47.077)

Yeah.

Right, right, exactly.

Exactly. So Ashley, you had a lot of people praying for you throughout this circumstance. But if you can just frame out, and I know that this might be hard to talk about, but you met another infant the same age as Eliana, who was going through the exact same cancer. And how did the different outcome impact you?

Ashley Hawkins (26:17.518)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (26:26.648)

So I met this wonderful, beautiful woman in radiation and she turns around and she goes, how old is your daughter? And I said, she's, I can't remember what her age was. And she goes, Eden is that age as well. And she's 20 days, she was 20 days younger than Eliana. And she said, you know, what, is she being treated for? And I said, it's a rare and aggressive cancer. Most people haven't heard of it. And she goes, well, what is it? And I said, malignant rhabdoid tumor. She goes,

Eden has a malignant rhabdoid tumor. And the chances are so crazy because like we've said, like 25 cases a year, and our daughters were diagnosed within a couple months of each other, born within like a month of each other. And she had come up from South Carolina to do this treatment in Boston. And that was another thing to thank God for that I had Boston in my backyard and I could

Cecily (26:58.651)

and what are the chances?

Cecily (27:05.935)

Yeah.

Cecily (27:25.263)

Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (27:25.738)

come home at night. And know, when she had to basically live in Boston for all this treatment for months. And she had four other boys at home. So it was like so challenging. Eden was being treated at. So Eden ended up having a remission too. And we were praising God that both our daughters were in remission and then on Eden's repeat scans.

They had shown that it had come back into her lungs.

They basically had said there's really no chance of survival. And they had made the difficult decision that Eden wasn't tolerating chemo and she wasn't happy. So they made the decision to just do comfort measures for which she laughed. They thought that she was going to die by Christmas of 2022, but she ended up doing very well and actually being able to make it until

Cecily (28:15.547)

Mm.

Ashley Hawkins (28:30.294)

I think early May, I think May 4th. She passed away May 4th, just after her second birthday. So she turned to

Cecily (28:32.667)

after her second birthday, So did the enemy come at you with fear because of that? Like how was it when you went back for Eliana scans?

Ashley Hawkins (28:41.759)

not that

Ashley Hawkins (28:45.51)

That is when it was tough. When Af, like I think I was fine up until it was time for her scans and I think she had her scans at the end of May. Yeah, so I think it was at the end of May, like right after she had passed away. And I think I was just like, I just was like, crud, like crud. And I think I actually had battled a little bit of fear too after Eden had had a relapse.

Cecily (29:12.836)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (29:13.11)

And then we had had subsequent scans from her relapse, even though she was still alive. I think I had had some more fear and more like not sleeping well the night before the scan and everything. But on the way home, I think from that scan, I'm driving home and I see this big, beautiful rainbow over like Boston Harbor or somewhere, one body of water. And

Cecily (29:24.847)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (29:42.774)

just felt the Lord tell me, he's like, it's not gonna happen again. This is over. Like she's not gonna go through this again. And like, I think within 30 minutes, her oncologist calls me and says, we have clear scans. Like they're still clear. And I just remember just being like, thank you Lord. Like you're right. Like I'm not gonna go through this again. And we actually just had our repeat scans on Tuesday.

Cecily (29:50.703)

Hallelujah.

Cecily (30:00.933)

is coming.

Cecily (30:04.387)

Yes. Yes. Thank you, God.

Cecily (30:12.506)

Hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (30:12.608)

So Tuesday we went and did it all again, for which Eliana is like a bulldozer, she's a trooper. She just sits there for her IV, didn't make a peep. They missed twice, got it on the third time, and she didn't even flinch. She does all the things and everyone's like, man, she's so good. I'm like, yeah, she really is. I'm like, I joke around. said, if this was my second child, we would all be in trouble. I was like, the Lord knew what he was doing.

Cecily (30:30.971)

you

Ashley Hawkins (30:39.276)

because we would all hate our life. was my second child. She just wasn't meant for this, but this one was fine. Like you never wish your child to be sick, but if God had to pick one, I it was her. And so, and then I, the oncologist actually came in in the recovery room. goes, so.

Cecily (30:43.387)

Eugh!

Cecily (30:53.093)

now.

Ashley Hawkins (31:00.876)

We do need to talk about her scans a little bit. She goes, her scans are clear. She goes, I'm not here to tell you that we have a repeated cancer. She goes, but I do want to say that we do see some probably malignant benign tumors on her liver. And I think at first you're just kind of like, and I think I just immediately was like, no, I'm not going to give in to fear. I'm not going to let it take hold again.

Cecily (31:26.671)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (31:26.862)

Okay, like we're not gonna go there. And she goes, this is very common after chemo. Like it can happen after chemo where you have these benign tumors, but you know, we'll keep an eye on it. goes, but we did look back at previous scans. They haven't changed since August. And I think, and she was like, okay, but I'm really sorry to tell you. I was like, you know what? It's okay. It's okay. You know what? Cause I know my God has already promised me that we're not gonna redo it. I know that this isn't a recurrence of it. I'm not gonna give into fear.

Cecily (31:50.383)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (31:54.796)

You can re-scan her if you want to re-scan her, if you have to do a different scan to make sure, but I'm not gonna live in fear in the meantime and she's fine. I know she's fine. I was like, I fully believe that she is fine. And she was like, yeah, I'm not worried about it either. I'm like, okay, good. As long as we're not worried about it, fine. So here we are.

Cecily (31:54.864)

Yes.

Cecily (32:03.971)

Amen.

Cecily (32:15.045)

Wow. So Ash, are, imagine you are sitting across the table in Starbucks from someone who is facing a hopeless situation. Maybe it's a medical situation like yours, or maybe it is a relational situation or something. What are tools, what were takeaways that you brought out of this season?

Ashley Hawkins (32:25.102)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Ashley Hawkins (32:40.878)

So one thing is like weather.

whether it is what you believe is a good outcome or what you believe is a bad outcome, God will use it and he is faithful. His faithfulness does not change. His goodness does not change. And his ability to take whatever it is and work it for his good and for his glory never changes. whether you think this is, let's just say you think it's a bad outcome.

Cecily (33:07.376)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (33:15.254)

If you think it's a bad outcome, God will work it for his glory. If you'll give it to him, if you'll believe in him, if you will trust him, if you will like sew it into his ground, he will make something beautiful out of it. No matter what. If you give him your fear, he will rebuild it into something beautiful for his glory.

Cecily (33:22.991)

Yeah.

Cecily (33:29.533)

Mmm.

Cecily (33:39.755)

Absolutely, absolutely. And you mentioned that you heard from the Lord and because you heard from the Lord that you just knew and nothing was going to push you off of that. So talk about the importance and you know for somebody who was like, how did you hear from the Lord? How are ways that you hear from the Lord? How does God speak to you?

Ashley Hawkins (34:01.486)

Hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (34:04.92)

For me, I really hear through worship music. So I am a huge music gal. I need music. Even when Matt and I were trying to, know, that very first night, know, Matt had this song by Mercy Me called Even If, and it's basically a saying, even if you don't, you know, I will still praise you. And Matt was on that immediately. I took until all night to get there, but.

Cecily (34:10.875)

Yeah.

Cecily (34:22.33)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (34:32.747)

The worship music was so important. I built a playlist specific for songs that build faith, songs that talk about faith, that songs that talk about hallelujah. Like Brian and Katie Torwalt have a lot of like songs like, you know, praise before my breakthrough. You know, I'll, you know, bring my hallelujah. And it was just like a lot of ones I was like, this is specific for my season, building my faith and to say, I'm going to trust you. And even there were songs, you know, that were like, you know, a lot of,

Cecily (34:42.959)

Thanks.

Cecily (34:55.951)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (35:03.886)

Brandon Lake and stuff that were like, you know, were like very faith, like you're gonna do this, but also so all the different versions. And then I had a lot of songs. I found a lot of songs that had like just instrumentals and it was in those like I'd worship through what would have words and then these instrumental songs would come on and then I could just pour out my heart. I was in a mode of worship where I could just say, all right, Lord, here's what's on my mind. Here's what's in my heart. Here's what's whatever.

Cecily (35:18.091)

Hmm. Hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (35:32.352)

and kind of receive a download from him on the response.

Cecily (35:35.515)

Wow. Yeah. Do you feel like that worship music sort of created a bubble around you?

Ashley Hawkins (35:44.034)

Yeah, it definitely created an atmosphere for sure. So it created an atmosphere for sure. And it helps you know, put your mind in the right mode, you know, and helps, you know, get let your spirit engage and then yeah, so it definitely created an atmosphere for sure.

Cecily (35:49.82)

Mmm. Mmm.

Cecily (35:56.41)

Yes.

Cecily (36:00.891)

Yeah, and I think it does two other things too, in that most worship songs are usually based on scripture somehow. And the word of God is living and active and it's sharper than a two-edged sword. so, and it says that it cuts, it divides between spirit and soul, which for me that I interpret that scripture to say there are times when my spirit knows what God is saying, but my soul is going, but yeah, but yeah, but what about this?

Ashley Hawkins (36:09.55)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Powerful. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (36:25.996)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cecily (36:30.317)

And I need my spirit man to be in ascendancy in those moments. I need my spirit man to rise up and be the loudest voice in the room. And I need my soul to sit down and shut up until it can come into alignment with what my spirit is hearing from the Holy Spirit. And so the word of God does that like nothing else. It literally chips away at all the doubts, all the fears, all the questions. So it's like the anchor for my soul.

Ashley Hawkins (36:33.486)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (36:44.941)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (36:49.006)

Yes.

Ashley Hawkins (36:56.684)

Yes.

Cecily (36:57.947)

And so worship music that especially worship music that is based on scriptural truth, it will do that for us. paints that picture of sureness. It paints the picture of this is who you're trusting. This is the God you're trusting in. This is not a myth. This isn't a fairy tale. This isn't Peter Pan. This is real. You serve a real God who has parted seas. He's raised the dead. He's opened blind eyes and he is the same yesterday, today and forever. And so

Ashley Hawkins (37:02.158)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

Cecily (37:27.267)

I love worship music as it paints that picture. Then additionally, like Ashley was saying, once you're in that place of being able to see God for who he is, then you can see your circumstance for what it is. Realizing this circumstance has to bow its knee to a God who never changes. Circumstances are subject to change, but my God is never subject to change. He will always be this and I will always worship him as this. No matter how this turns out, I will always worship him for this.

Ashley Hawkins (37:43.522)

Yeah. Yes.

It's right.

Ashley Hawkins (37:52.748)

Yes.

Cecily (37:57.049)

And that's a solid rock, people. That is the solid rock that we can build our house on. It's the wise man who builds his house upon the rock. And a foolish man builds his house upon sand. The storms are gonna come to us all. And it's in that storm that we realize what we built on. And so I'm encouraging all of you who are listening, before the storm comes, start building on the rock.

Ashley Hawkins (38:01.72)

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Amen.

everybody.

Ashley Hawkins (38:18.482)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (38:24.366)

Yes.

Cecily (38:25.977)

start getting into the Word so that you know who God is, so that you know what He has said, because I'm telling you right now, Ashley and Matt had a backlog of insight into who the Lord is, of experience, but also just studying the Word, loving the Word, and they're both worshipers. They met on the worship team. And so, you know, they both love to worship, they both love to sing.

Ashley Hawkins (38:28.264)

Yeah, so true. Yes.

Ashley Hawkins (38:41.058)

Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Cecily (38:55.705)

And so in this moment, the Lord said, here's how I'm going to meet you. I'm going to meet you in the song. I'm going to meet you in a place where that music connects to your emotion and you can pour out the good, the bad, the ugly. We can like pop the bubble and let all the gross stuff come out and pour your love out on me. So worship is so, so key. So give us in it, just in the little bit of remaining time we have left. What would another tool be that you had?

Ashley Hawkins (39:00.066)

Yes. Yep. Yep.

Ashley Hawkins (39:13.457)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cecily (39:25.669)

for hearing the Lord.

Ashley Hawkins (39:27.17)

I, so I think that's my, that's really my main one, but I like to have a solid group of friends. Not a lot, like I'm talking about a solid group. So there's a, you can have a lot of friends and I encourage everybody to have a lot of friends, but, I think if you have a solid core people that you know are also dedicated to hearing the Lord, then, that is key. If you pull, you give them.

Cecily (39:31.962)

Yeah.

Yes.

Cecily (39:38.501)

Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Cecily (39:53.209)

Yes, Stokey. Yeah. And for people who have listened to me at all, in either speaking or on this podcast, you know the value that I put on having your tribe. And that you've got that small inner circle of people like Ashley's talking about. And then we do have that larger community that we worship with, that we do life with, but we have to have those people that know us so well.

Ashley Hawkins (40:03.928)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (40:17.806)

Yeah.

Cecily (40:19.993)

that when we're starting to buckle, when we're starting to falter, they are the ones that we know love us. We have allowed them to see us in our highs and lows. And so when they have to come in and say something, it doesn't come like a slight or a slam. We know that they're just saying, look, I love you. I've got your back. I'm just not sure that you're aware that you're sliding in this area. We gotta have your tribe. That's so great. And plus, I mean, in a situation where

Ashley Hawkins (40:26.519)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Hawkins (40:35.523)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily (40:49.909)

You are walking through hell. You've got to have those people that are lifting you up and praying for you. Ashley and Matt had thousands of people praying for them, but most of them they'll never know. But that inner circle tribe, so important. So folks, when fear kidnaps our hearts and paints a picture that tells us that we're finished, the main takeaway I want you guys,

Ashley Hawkins (40:58.158)

Yeah.

Ashley Hawkins (41:07.8)

Yep.

Cecily (41:18.297)

to get from this is that we need to hear the voice of the Lord. We need his perspective on the situation. And the moment that you turn your heart to listen, he's already speaking. So I know there are people who are listening right now who are in that hopeless situation. And I just wanna quickly pray for you before we close out this podcast. So let's first pray. Heavenly Father, I come to you in humility, confessing my fear to you.

Ashley Hawkins (41:30.606)

Yep.

Cecily (41:48.611)

Lord, I don't want to live in fear. And I see in your word that fear is not from you. You are not sending fear as a teacher, as a guide or a counselor. Fear is not keeping me safe. Only you keep me safe. Fear has robbed thousands of hours from me over my lifetime, and I want to learn how to live in the perfect peace that you promised me. I repent for exalting my estimation of reality above your word.

I repent for allowing lies to dictate what I think and how I feel. I ask you, Lord, to show me how to let the emotion of fear pass through me while I run to your arms and hear what you have to say about the situation. Lord, I know that I can hear your voice and I commit to still my heart in quiet moments and trust you with my life.

and with this situation, in Jesus' name, amen. Well, Ashley, I just wanna thank you so much for this great discussion and for sharing your story with us. And before we sign off, I wanna invite our listeners to join the live Q &A and discussion that Ashley and I are gonna have when it gets scheduled. So keep your eyes on my Instagram and my Facebook to see when she and I are gonna be hosting that, because maybe you have questions for her.

about how she repurposed her fear into that unshakable trust in God's goodness. Or maybe you just have a story, similar, maybe God's already been doing this in your life and you wanna share that. We'd love to hear about it. So in our Q &A, you're gonna have the opportunity to do that. Make sure to join us and share that link on your social media so your friends and followers can share as well. And so for now, I wanna thank you, my incredible tribe, for being part of today's podcast.

We're here on the Higher Pursuit podcast to help you and encourage you on your journey. So if anything you heard today blessed you, then let me know in the comments and also be a conduit of that blessing so other people can benefit. I encourage you to share what you learned with other people, whether that's on social media or whether it's just hanging out with friends. And if you haven't already, subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening to it, whether that's Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube podcasts or on YouTube.

Cecily (44:12.461)

and join my email list on my website, higherpursuitministries.com so you can receive my newsletter and my blog. And if you haven't already secured your copy of my book, Repurpose Your Pain, I'll put that Amazon link in the show notes below. Friends, we are on this pursuit of more of Jesus together. my gosh! There's our last little grandbaby, our newest. That's Abigail. my goodness.

Abigail, do you want to help Nanny close out the podcast? Can you say thank you for joining us? Can you say thank Tell the people that we're here to strengthen, encourage, and challenge you as you pursue Jesus in the midst of your everyday life. And until next time, may you walk in the favor of God and Ashley and I and Abigail will see you in the next podcast. God bless and be blessed.

Ashley Hawkins (44:46.882)

Sure, she'll be right on it.