From Numb to New with Jenn Kautsch (Part 1)

Today on The Higher Pursuit Podcast, I’m joined by Jenn Kautsch—founder of SoberSis, a global movement helping women rethink their relationship with alcohol and live fully awake and aligned with the life God has for them.

In this inspiring conversation, Jenn opens up about her personal journey into sober-minded living—a lifestyle that’s not just about giving up alcohol, but about stepping into deeper presence, peace, and spiritual freedom.

We talk about:

• What it really means to live sober-minded and why it’s more than abstinence
• The concept of gray area drinking and why so many women quietly fall into this middle ground
• How numbing with alcohol often hides deeper emotional and spiritual longings
• The power of naming what we’ve been silently carrying in order to find freedom
• How faith, clarity, and community can bring true transformation

Jenn also shares the heart behind SoberSis, the life-changing program The Quest, and the incredible work of The Quest Foundation, which helps women experience healing and purpose beyond alcohol.

This is a 2 part conversation, so make sure to set a reminder to tune into Part 2 next week!

👉 Resources & Links:

• Learn more about SoberSis: https://sobersis.com/
• Explore The Quest and The Quest Foundation: https://questfoundation.net/
• Follow Jenn Kautsch on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sobersis/
• Listen to my past conversation with Erik Frederickson: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2138819/episodes/16404654

📌 Keywords: sober-minded living, Jenn Kautsch, SoberSis, Christian sobriety, gray area drinking, sober curious, alcohol-free lifestyle, spiritual clarity, emotional healing, women’s sobriety, Christian women podcast, faith, Christian women, mental clarity, spritually awake

Transcript

Cecily Lachapelle (00:00.718)

Hey there friends and welcome back to the Hire Pursuit podcast where we talk about real life, real faith and the God who meets us in both. Today I am so thrilled to be sitting down with someone whose story and mission have impacted thousands of women in a quietly powerful way. Jen Couch is the founder of Sober Cis, a growing movement and sisterhood of women who are rethinking their relationship with alcohol but more deeply learning to live awake, aligned and fully present. In this podcast, Jen and I are gonna talk about what she calls sober-minded living, a lifestyle that isn't just about abstaining from alcohol, but it's about showing up for the life that God has given you with clarity, peace and purpose. Whether you consider yourself a gray area drinker, you felt that nudge in your spirit that something is off or you're just curious about what life could be like with less numbing and more awareness, then don't leave this conversation because this is for you. Today, I'm gonna be asking Jen to share her personal journey, the heart behind Sober Cis, and how freedom often begins when we name the things we've quietly been carrying. I think you're gonna find her story refreshingly honest, like I have, deeply encouraging and full of hope for the kind of life that's not just alcohol free, but spiritually full. And that's why she's a perfect fit for the Higher Pursuit podcast. So Jen, thank you so much for joining me today. I have been looking forward to this conversation for a year.

Jenn Kautsch (01:46.557)

Me too. Ever since I found you on Instagram, I thought, ooh, I can't wait to get to know this woman better and form a friendship and have such a candid, raw, real, honest conversation. So I'm looking forward to it as well.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:55.246)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (02:00.118)

Yes. Yes. And I was so excited because you and I got connected about a year ago through a mutual friend, Eric Fredrickson, who is also a sober coach and who I've interviewed on this podcast. And since then, you and I have been following each other's social stuff. We've been reading each other's books. Shout out. Here's her book right here. Look alive, sis. And we had an awesome video call a few weeks ago where we realized

Jenn Kautsch (02:20.181)

Yes!

That's right.

Cecily Lachapelle (02:27.79)

We are actually going to be great friends And I'm also super excited selfishly to have another friend who lives in a warm location So I have an excuse to escape my New England winter Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what you are in fry your egg on the sidewalk weather where you are and this I we have a balmy 78 degrees right now and So yeah, we can actually walk outside

Jenn Kautsch (02:30.357)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (02:39.017)

One more place to come on down.

Jenn Kautsch (02:53.003)

Wow.

Yeah, you can. You can. We're at the point now in Texas where I'm in North Texas in Fort Worth. And we're at the point, which is normal for us in this part of summer, that you're just heated in unless you are near water, a water source of any kind, a pool, a lake. You're just kind of heated in for the middle of the day. And you just kind of get your errands done first thing or last thing and walk the dogs.

Cecily Lachapelle (02:57.024)

in our summer weather. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (03:22.094)

Wow. Oh my word. So all the stores are empty in the middle of the day is no.

Jenn Kautsch (03:28.917)

Middle of the day is not a running around time. Not for me anyway.

Cecily Lachapelle (03:32.718)

Gotcha. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I mean, on the flip side, that's us in winter. Literally, I sit here in my office and it's gray and it's cold and I've got my blue light therapy going on just so that I don't tank because of exhaustion. And I think we all kind of have our, there's a flip side, there's a good side and a downside to everywhere we live. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (03:47.166)

night.

Jenn Kautsch (03:56.329)

Isn't that the truth? That is so true. The grass is always greener. We just have to love the grass that we're in.

Cecily Lachapelle (03:59.843)

Come on.

Exactly, exactly. Well, Jen, before we dive into your story and your heart behind Sober Sis, I know that you love the Lord. I mean, that's one of the things that you and I have been talking about. that really, I think, is why your message resonates with both people who are not maybe following God full on, that maybe they're not what they would call church folk, but also with people that want to pursue the word of God.

They want to love the Lord with all their heart and they've just had an area that has been tripping them up, maybe causing shame, maybe causing them to feel like, I can't even go into God's presence because of this. But so because I know you have an intimate relationship with the Lord, I would love to hear what God is saying to you right now in your personal devotions.

Jenn Kautsch (04:53.993)

Yeah, good question. Good question. And I tell you, it's been a wonderful year. My word for 2025 is the word hope. And I see how the Lord's been weaving that in through just reminding me that my identity is in Him.

Cecily Lachapelle (05:04.611)

Mmm.

Jenn Kautsch (05:14.965)

and that my hope is in Him as well. I feel like we live in extra chaotic times. I feel like times are always a little crazy and chaotic for a variety of reasons. But I think where we put our hope right now, where we put our security and our comfort is so important. And God's really showing that to me on a really personal level on a daily basis. So I just show up every morning really desperate for Him, empty.

Cecily Lachapelle (05:15.231)

come on. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (05:20.907)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (05:25.112)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (05:39.15)

Hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (05:44.395)

from the day before and just ready to get filled back up. And really quite honestly, he's showing me that he can overflow through a cracked vessel that I don't have to be perfect to be used by God. But even as a cracked vessel that's been repaired, it's not about the way things look as much as the way things are because of him. And I just, yeah, recently had an aha moment spiritually where I was on my back patio.

Cecily Lachapelle (05:55.79)

Come on!

Cecily Lachapelle (06:05.016)

Mmm.

Jenn Kautsch (06:12.843)

having my just intimate time with the Lord and heard a YouTube video that I just, I found so many devotional type videos and prayers in the morning. And this one was just talking about how you overflow through a cracked vessel as long as the source is continual. And if you think about it, as long as the source keeps flowing, the overflow keeps happening.

Cecily Lachapelle (06:33.975)

Ooh, yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (06:40.919)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (06:40.927)

whether the vessel is in perfect shape or whether it's got cracks, it really doesn't matter as long as the flow is consistent and overflowing. So I'm just really encouraged by that right now.

Cecily Lachapelle (06:44.492)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (06:50.584)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (06:55.736)

That is awesome. That is so great. I love that. I mean, it's funny. My husband and I have this, we call it a baby pool in our backyard. We haven't bit the bullet and actually built an in-ground pool. And yet when it's hot, we absolutely hate being like overheated. You can't sit in our backyard sometimes where it's just too hot. So we put up one of those inflatable pools, which I swore I would never, ever, ever do.

Jenn Kautsch (07:05.248)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (07:17.195)

right?

Jenn Kautsch (07:24.061)

Actually, it's pretty practical because you really don't need it year-round.

Cecily Lachapelle (07:27.506)

Exactly. But I still swore I would never do it. And then here I am. have... Here we are. And so we went away for two weeks of vacation and we came back and the water level was so low that the sides just kind of went... And it makes me think of what you said because when the heat is on, that water in that pool is going to evaporate. Nobody even has to splash it out. It's just the heat itself.

Jenn Kautsch (07:31.521)

Here you are.

Jenn Kautsch (07:42.549)

Jenn Kautsch (07:53.558)

Alright.

Cecily Lachapelle (07:55.754)

is going to make that water evaporate. So we have this constant having to refill the pool, keep water going into it. And the same thing is true in our spiritual life. We have to have a regular time where we go to the Lord in that brokenness, like you said, and say, I need you to fill me again. And the heat of life, even if we're not in crisis mode, just living in the world we live in.

Jenn Kautsch (08:23.509)

Just living our normal life in this day and time is just can be so overwhelming and so many distractions and so many ways to check out, to numb out, which I know we'll talk about, but you know, there's just so many ways to to just, yeah, I like, I like your visual of just letting it evaporate out. And it's all about the refilling and the renewing, the renewing of our minds, literally.

Cecily Lachapelle (08:33.592)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (08:37.121)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (08:45.71)

Mm.

Amen. Amen.

Yes, absolutely. Put the good in and let the bad just get pushed right on out. Well, I have been following your content, like I said, for over a year because even before Eric connected us, I was already aware of you and your content and thought it was amazing. And so I know that you use the term sober-minded living quite a bit. So can you unpack for my listeners and me

Jenn Kautsch (08:58.656)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (09:18.86)

what that means and how it goes beyond just avoiding alcohol.

Jenn Kautsch (09:23.253)

Yeah, I can, can. And my Instagram handle is at sober sis, one word. And I've got to tell you, Cicely, when I first started my Instagram and really started sharing my story publicly out there, I wanted to avoid the word sober like the plague because I feel like it's so loaded. The word sober is so loaded and stereotyped and stigmatized.

Cecily Lachapelle (09:29.742)

Mm.

Cecily Lachapelle (09:39.992)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (09:48.29)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (09:50.827)

which is really unfortunate if you think about it, that even sobriety or being sober in and of itself has a stigma just like the quote opposite. It's almost like alcoholic has a stigma and stereotype, well, so does sober. And it's just very interesting. In fact, when I was drinking, I really didn't worry if anyone would label me, but as a non-drinker, I tended to worry more about labels.

Cecily Lachapelle (10:06.465)

Really?

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (10:19.363)

Hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (10:19.433)

And so I really do think it's interesting to be able to differentiate maybe the difference and bring a little bit more nuance. I'm all about just the nuances of language and that there is, there's a full drinking spectrum, which I did not know until I embarked on this journey. And I also didn't realize that on that spectrum, people can change their relationship with drinking at any time.

Cecily Lachapelle (10:32.366)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (10:48.169)

and for any reason. I thought it's black or white, all or nothing, you're just a take it or leave it drinker, no negative relationship with alcohol, or you're an alcoholic. And that's a pretty big jump. And I thought that sober meant the opposite of alcohol.

Cecily Lachapelle (11:04.717)

Yeah, it is.

Cecily Lachapelle (11:13.986)

Okay.

Jenn Kautsch (11:14.017)

for the longest time. really had that mindset of like, you're sober because you got a DUI, a rock bottom, you you're on a park bench, you got jail time, I don't know, you know, like just, I went to the extreme.

Cecily Lachapelle (11:23.651)

Right. Right, right, right. You lost your job, you lost your marriage, you know, you've lost everything and now you have to get sober. Okay, I get it.

Jenn Kautsch (11:31.433)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (11:35.507)

right, like you have to and like you had to do this and you didn't want to do this and in, you know, court appointed had to do this or like something forced your hand. And that that was not my experience with drinking, at least not yet. I'm sure if I would have continued on, I'm not saying that, you know, there's any superiority or that anyone's above a certain place on the drinking spectrum. I think it goes one direction.

Cecily Lachapelle (11:39.795)

Mm. Sure.

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (11:59.405)

Right.

Jenn Kautsch (12:02.729)

I honestly do. think the drinking highway typically goes one way, people don't tend to drink less over time. If they're a drinker, they tend to drink more over time. So it's kind of heading in one direction, but the cool thing is you can take an exit off that drinking highway at any time for any reason. And it doesn't have to be because you're an alcoholic or because you've had a rock bottom.

Cecily Lachapelle (12:11.182)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (12:15.063)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (12:22.062)

So good.

Jenn Kautsch (12:30.263)

You don't even need a label at all to be curious about your relationship with anything that you do and why you do it. And so bringing in this aspect of sober minded living for me as a believer really encompasses the way we are called to live as believers, as Christians, or really anyone. I think, know, 1 Peter 5, 8, you know,

Cecily Lachapelle (12:37.056)

Yes. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (12:52.366)

Mmm.

Jenn Kautsch (12:59.231)

The devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for whom he can devour. So be of sober mind. To me, the book I wrote is named Look Alive, Sis, for that very reason. It's like, look alive. Look alive because we have an enemy who's hoping that you're not paying attention, that you're asleep at the wheel of your own life. And sober-minded living is about being awake, alert, aware, and present in your own life.

Cecily Lachapelle (13:01.91)

Yes. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (13:09.881)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (13:16.813)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (13:20.482)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (13:27.657)

Now how alcohol fits into sober minded living may look different for everybody. Whereas typically when you think of sober, you think of abstaining from alcohol, other drugs, which I would put alcohol in the drug category. I guess it is. Which for some of your listeners, don't go. Stay with us. You may be in that gray area and I think a lot of the language I use will allow you to stay.

Cecily Lachapelle (13:28.258)

So good.

Cecily Lachapelle (13:42.478)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (13:47.176)

Yeah, right. Right, exactly.

Jenn Kautsch (13:55.977)

in this space with us with curiosity and a willingness to look at your relationship with drinking without the shame, the labels, the rules, legalism, religiosity, if that's the word, and being able to just be honest and go, actually, maybe it's less about labels and less about even comparing my drinking to somebody else's. Maybe it's about what God is showing me.

Cecily Lachapelle (14:05.718)

Great.

Say that.

Cecily Lachapelle (14:16.523)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (14:21.421)

right.

Jenn Kautsch (14:24.481)

for me in my own personal relationship with him. And that kind of makes it a whole different ball game when it's less about, well, it's not bad enough. I started asking myself the question about eight years ago, is it good enough? And that changed everything.

Cecily Lachapelle (14:30.017)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (14:36.6)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (14:41.262)

Yes, is this serving me? Is this serving me? Is it making me more of the person that I want to be?

Jenn Kautsch (14:46.187)

Right.

Jenn Kautsch (14:50.773)

Right, right. And that, because if I kept comparing myself to others or asking is it bad enough or being in that gray area where you're kind of in the, I tell you what, as a Christian, and again, I love that your audience is wanting to grow in their relationship with the Lord, but people may be listening to this, like you said, who are maybe in my audience who are sober curious and also spiritually curious too.

And so we really invite that. mean, that's what we're doing is here to keep it real. And I think when you're in that middle zone, when you're in that gray area zone, the Bible likens that in our lives in general to being lukewarm. You're neither hot or cold. And I think when we are experiencing lukewarm living in any area of life, mentally, emotionally, spiritually,

Cecily Lachapelle (15:20.44)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (15:25.144)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (15:35.383)

Yes.

Come on.

Jenn Kautsch (15:45.951)

or with our habits, it's actually the least enjoyable place to be because you're in tension with yourself and you can't fully enjoy it and you can't fully let it go. So it leaves you in this middle ground, which I find to be sometimes the most exhausting. I'm all about balance, but when something is not serving you and you're trying to balance it,

Cecily Lachapelle (15:50.958)

Absolutely.

Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (16:09.912)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (16:15.189)

That's when you run into trouble.

Cecily Lachapelle (16:15.256)

Yeah. And I also feel like it's a form of double-mindedness where one moment, I'm convinced that this is okay. And then in the next moment, well, I think I'm convinced that it's not, but now I'm convinced that it is. Now I'm convinced that it's not. And it's this double-mindedness where when, I mean, because in times in my life, when I have been in double-mindedness about something,

Jenn Kautsch (16:20.481)

Yes!

Jenn Kautsch (16:26.071)

Thanks.

Jenn Kautsch (16:30.647)

right.

Cecily Lachapelle (16:43.754)

and I waffle back and forth. It's like a form of schizophrenia, it seems like. It's because I have not wanted to really surrender to go to the Lord and say, what sayest thou, Almighty God, in your wisdom and your understanding of who I am and what my journey is and what the future holds for me.

Jenn Kautsch (16:48.481)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (17:01.431)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (17:10.634)

what do you say about this for me? Because if we don't have scripture and verse about, you know, I don't know, adultery or lying or murder, like there are some things that are pretty darn clear, but there are other things where we could become double-minded. And in that area, we have to go to the Lord and we have to say, what do you say for me about this? But if we are concerned that

Jenn Kautsch (17:23.447)

Thank

Cecily Lachapelle (17:38.702)

what if he tells me something I don't want to hear? Then we're floating in that limbo and it's miserable.

Jenn Kautsch (17:41.515)

Yeah, there's that.

Jenn Kautsch (17:46.263)

It is that duplicity that you're talking about, that double-mindedness. know, the scripture says a double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways. So it just creates such instability and flip-flopping. For me, I was a little bit more about my story. I'm what you would call someone who was in what I've named the detox to retox loop.

Cecily Lachapelle (17:48.6)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (17:57.217)

Mm-hmm, all his ways.

is.

Jenn Kautsch (18:14.787)

Super mindful, healthy, focused, responsible, checking all the boxes, doing all the right things every day, all day. And then would flip-flop into the evening gen, kind of the other side of me that wanted to relax, let my hair down, stop at the list, maybe reward myself for a job well done all day.

Cecily Lachapelle (18:15.011)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (18:31.47)

Mm. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (18:40.216)

Yes. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (18:42.025)

And ladies, if you're listening, there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's a normal human thing to go, okay, I've worked hard. How can I treat myself to some self care? And I really bought in to the marketing and the messaging around alcohol to today's woman, Christian woman, older woman, younger woman, woman of faith, woman out in the world.

Cecily Lachapelle (19:05.485)

yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (19:08.509)

Women in general, we have been lied to. We've been marketed to and lied to. That alcohol is a reward and that it is a form of self-care. I mean, I bought it hook, line and sinker in my young thirties. That's when I really started drinking on a more social and regular basis. It was like glamorized and encouraged. And I'll be honest, I love the way it made me feel.

Cecily Lachapelle (19:23.374)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (19:28.686)

Mm.

Jenn Kautsch (19:37.223)

it took the edge off. If my shoulders were up in my ears and I was tense or uptight or overwhelmed or overthinking or just over it, I could just have a drink, which again was in my face, offered all the time at a book club, a networking happy hour, a date night. Gosh, it's even infiltrated our churches now in some Bible studies. You know, it's everywhere. And so...

Cecily Lachapelle (19:37.262)

Sure.

Cecily Lachapelle (19:57.55)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (20:01.912)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (20:03.563)

And again, Jesus drank wine. Where do we fit with all this? You know, I get it. And so I think for me, I just started to realize in my thirties, wow, this, this elixir, this magical juice right here can really overtake a lot of my, my mind, my brain. And I didn't understand any of the science at that point. think

Cecily Lachapelle (20:07.094)

Right. Yep.

Cecily Lachapelle (20:21.176)

Thank you.

Jenn Kautsch (20:32.427)

taking the combination of mind, body, spirit is a lot of what I'm doing in my ministry with Sober Cis because I feel like there are so many different communities that are so good at each one. And I couldn't find what I was looking for by bringing them all together, mind, body, and spirit. Because even in the church atmosphere, we wanna pray, we wanna surrender this to Christ, we want to partner with Him.

Cecily Lachapelle (20:35.886)

Yes, yes you are so good.

Cecily Lachapelle (20:44.814)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (20:51.118)

Hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (21:02.511)

And practically, how do we do that? And what is the science behind alcohol? For me, as a Christian mom walking around with shame, feeling like it was a moral failure, it was actually helpful for me to understand how much my body and my actual mind, brain, which are two different things, was really playing into a lot of my desires and cravings. And that if I didn't, if I wasn't able to break that down,

Cecily Lachapelle (21:06.168)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (21:16.301)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (21:22.99)

Thank you.

Jenn Kautsch (21:31.465)

in a real practical way, it was going to be hard for me to partner with the Lord just spiritually if I was fighting against the way he made us.

Cecily Lachapelle (21:36.663)

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I love the fact that you have done that research. And for my listeners, I just want to recap a couple things that Jen said and just to add to it just a bit before we move on. One of the things that she mentioned was at the end of that, she felt like she had two people. The first Jen was on point about living healthy, making great choices.

Working out, eating the right foods, having your schedule, doing all the things for the family. But then after this day of holding it all together, staying in control, being in control of everything and everybody, at the end of the day, our brain kind of goes, and I just need a break. I just want to shut down. I just want to silence all of the control, like...

release myself from having to be in control. And she found alcohol is that some of you might find scrolling through your phone, through your social media for hours or playing video games. Some of you, it might be online shopping. Some of you, it might be snacking. And I can raise my hand on that one. And we feel like at the end of the day, I deserve this. I worked hard today.

I have been there for everyone. have shown up for all the things. And now I just need a little me time. I just want to turn on the television, watch some mindless show, and I just want to do whatever. And it's so easy to fall into that. But Jen will probably talk about this later on. But our brains form neural pathways. And once we start connecting an activity or a substance to

Cecily Lachapelle (23:38.778)

relaxation or our thoughts that this is good for me, I enjoy this and I'll reward. Those neural pathways are going to continue to drive us down that road, whatever it is, and it becomes harder and harder and harder to make a detour. And that's where all of a sudden one day we wake up and we're like, my gosh, I'm stuck. that's...

It's unbelievable. So Jen, talk to us about living more awake and aligned.

Jenn Kautsch (24:11.401)

Yeah, and what you just described was the exact scenario that my story really led to was just casual social drinking, some experimenting in my 30s because I really didn't drink in my younger days to being in my 40s. 40 to 45 for me were the years that were probably the most challenging in marriage and parenting.

Cecily Lachapelle (24:19.854)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (24:26.797)

Right.

Jenn Kautsch (24:36.435)

and just being myself and kind of losing myself in all of those roles. And yeah, right before I turned 46 is when I looked up and I was like, wait a minute, what's happening? I do feel stuck. I feel in this, you know, Vino flytrap where I'm like, you know, it's like, you know.

Cecily Lachapelle (24:40.332)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (24:59.246)

That's awesome.

Jenn Kautsch (25:00.599)

Alan Carr, who wrote the easy way to stop drinking, which is one of the many books that I've read in the kind of the quit lit world, talks about the pitcher plant, which is a plant actually in nature that attracts its victims with its sweet nectar, gets them on the edge. They come in, they get a little bit, they leave, they fly away. They come in, they get a little bit, they leave, they fly away. They come in, they get a little bit, they go a little deeper.

Cecily Lachapelle (25:25.814)

No... No-

Jenn Kautsch (25:29.577)

and they start sticking to the sides of the plant. It's a carnivorous plant. It's going to eat them. And they don't, they can fly away, fly away, fly away. Now they can't fly at all. And that I actually, my mom's an artist. So is my daughter kind of like went through me from my mom to my daughter just through me. And I had them actually do some artwork.

Cecily Lachapelle (25:42.53)

That is incredible.

Cecily Lachapelle (25:49.806)

I hear that.

Jenn Kautsch (25:56.725)

with a vino flytrap with like a glass of wine almost like it just you just kind of come in and out like I can stop anytime I want. Fortunately I could I was not to the point of physical addiction where I couldn't just choose to put it down but mentally emotionally that neuro pathway like you were mentioning was so read it in that actually I didn't know this either until I learned the science but just pulling the glass

Cecily Lachapelle (26:02.862)

Cecily Lachapelle (26:19.95)

you

Jenn Kautsch (26:26.411)

down from the cabinet and putting it on the countertop gave my brain a dopamine release before the drink even went in my body. Our body is already shooting off reward, reward, do this, this is good. anticipation, that's right, that neuro pathway is just shooting straight there and it doesn't even need the actual substance.

Cecily Lachapelle (26:31.681)

you

Cecily Lachapelle (26:44.76)

because it's what, that anticipation, the looking forward to, look what's coming, look what's coming.

Jenn Kautsch (26:54.775)

sometimes just the thought of it can begin the craving cycle and that's why you've got to know how to handle that.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:00.472)

So if I could just sit and think about getting up and getting a bowl of chocolate ice cream, could I actually satisfy it, satisfy the craving and not actually get up and get it or?

Jenn Kautsch (27:08.479)

Yeah, right. Hey, you may be onto something there. Calorie-free thinking visualization. God gave us an imagination for a reason. Come on. That's funny.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:17.496)

But no, I actually have to.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:23.062)

Yeah. Man, if I could do that, I could conquer my problem with ice cream.

Jenn Kautsch (27:27.415)

Yeah, well it's just like, know, if I say close your eyes and now think about a lemon and think about slicing a lemon and putting it in your mouth, can you feel your saliva glands like start to activate a little bit? That's the power of our mind and I believe that God gave us that power to use it in a renewed mind versus a divided mind and then the sober mind.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:39.822)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:44.298)

Yes.

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:52.118)

Amen.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:56.024)

this.

Jenn Kautsch (27:57.239)

to me is where it's at.

Cecily Lachapelle (27:59.338)

Yes. So you talked about numbing out and checking out and then all of a sudden just waking up in like around 46 and just saying, holy smokes, my life is going past me and I am not awake for this. I am not participating in life. So how has sober minded living helped you experience more presence, not just with yourself and the people in your life, but also with God?

Jenn Kautsch (28:27.605)

Yeah, well, you know, that's really been the journey. Yesterday, I know people will hear this at all different times, just yesterday I celebrated 3,000 days of alcohol-free living as a lifestyle. Yeah, thank you. Kind of fun. I'm not a big day counter. don't even have an app on my phone. I know a lot of women I work with do, and I think it's a cool idea. You can even show how much money you've saved and all that, but...

Cecily Lachapelle (28:35.822)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (28:43.138)

Wow, great for you!

Jenn Kautsch (28:56.023)

I will say looking back, because I've been reflective lately, extra, when you kind of a milestone, whether it be a birthday or an anniversary of something, you do tend to be a little bit extra reflective of like the journey itself. And so I've recently felt that in a just a whole new way of like, wow, when I started this journey, I really did think it was about alcohol. I really did. I thought if I can get alcohol more under control. And again, my life didn't look

Cecily Lachapelle (28:56.056)

fun.

Cecily Lachapelle (29:08.822)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (29:19.694)

Hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (29:24.777)

out of control on the outside. I think it's really important for women listening to distinguish, you know, your life doesn't have to look out of control on the outside. It's really what's going on on the inside. so for me, waking up in my own life was just first being honest with myself and just saying, you know what, Jen?

Cecily Lachapelle (29:27.138)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (29:38.04)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (29:49.291)

This is just not serving you, it's not working. My daughter at that time was just about to, she'd just graduated high school, she was in her freshman year of college and was about to move across the country and kind of reinvent herself. She was literally at that, you I think sometimes we can live vicariously through our kids. She was at a real crossroads in the seasons of her life where she was like kind of a high school, you know, you kind of just.

Cecily Lachapelle (30:02.531)

Wow.

Cecily Lachapelle (30:11.278)

Wow.

Jenn Kautsch (30:15.489)

create different personas as you go through life, think, just based on who you are and where you are. So she was about to just expand her horizons, show up with more confidence, more bravery, and go into the unknown. And I thought, hello, I can do that too. I wanna do that too. I've kind of, I wanna reinvent myself and not just from the outside in, but from the inside out.

Cecily Lachapelle (30:17.71)

to us.

Cecily Lachapelle (30:25.389)

Yeah.

Ha.

Cecily Lachapelle (30:33.474)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (30:42.838)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (30:42.879)

And when I say reinvent, I really just mean get back to who God says I am and live that way. And really get back to unbecoming all the things I've become and get back to that essence of who I really am minus all the things that I've put on top of who I am to people please, to perform, to posture out there and just get back to.

Cecily Lachapelle (30:48.715)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (31:08.206)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (31:09.077)

I think that's a big part of being awake, alert, aware in your own life is being more authentic, more true to who you really are. And again, that double-minded life, was caught in the crosshairs of one person by day, one person by night. So for me, that was a big part of coming awake was stepping into getting my identity back, but not

Cecily Lachapelle (31:18.434)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (31:28.406)

Yeah. Wow.

Jenn Kautsch (31:38.335)

not in a performance oriented way, but in who God says I am. And I think that for me, had to really, really, turns out, spoiler alert, it really wasn't about alcohol. That was really just the lead domino that God used in my life to start hitting the other dominoes to fall down, other areas in my life that I was stagnant or struggling or not surrendering. And he just, he wanted to bless me more. He had

Cecily Lachapelle (31:42.094)

Mm.

Cecily Lachapelle (31:49.902)

Mm.

Cecily Lachapelle (31:58.51)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (32:04.696)

Mmm.

Jenn Kautsch (32:07.969)

better things for me. And I was just living really small in my own life and settling for so much less. I was leaving just so much on the table, if you will, of what He wanted to give me even that day, each day. And now I kind of wake up and I'm like, now wait a minute, I do get to partner with God. I don't want to leave blessings and possibilities and things on the table.

Cecily Lachapelle (32:08.312)

Yes. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (32:14.478)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (32:21.709)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (32:37.803)

just because I'm not open to receive it. I wanna go get it. And I can't do that if I'm asleep in my own life.

Cecily Lachapelle (32:42.732)

Yes. Amen. That is so good. That is awesome. Well, earlier you chatted about that like big spectrum that either someone's got this massive problem with alcohol or they just don't. But you talk a lot about that that gray area. So can you explain to us how that differs from physical addiction? Because you said for you, you were able to just put it down. It hadn't gone into a physical addiction.

So can you explain what that is and then why is it important? Why would people even need to know what that is and to name that gray area, that middle space?

Jenn Kautsch (33:21.013)

Yeah, I think it is really important. And I do feel like in the last maybe 10 to 15 years, this has really become a part of the conversation. And I think education as far as even the semantics of the way we're describing one's relationship with alcohol is so important. It's now called AUD, alcohol use disorder. It's seen as a spectrum. I'm not a medical person, but if you were to look in the medical diagnosis, like book,

There's like a book for that. I forgot what it's called right now. Again, not a medical person, but the actual diagnosis called alcoholic is now gone. It's antiquated. It is not a word that someone would actually diagnose someone and say, you're an alcoholic. It's where are you on the spectrum? So you can actually go and Google AUD and actually take online.

Cecily Lachapelle (34:08.791)

Okay.

Jenn Kautsch (34:16.695)

assessment inventories, if how many of these questions are you answering yes to may show kind of where you are on the spectrum. And so what I've what I've learned about it is anyone that drinks alcohol at all is on the drinking spectrum. If you're if you're a person out there who has, you know, a champagne toast at a wedding once a year, well, you're on the drinking spectrum. But boy, let's just put you at the at the tail end over here. You know, you could

You could take it or leave it. You wouldn't describe yourself as a drinker. But you've had alcohol, you drink it periodically. It just kind of goes up from there with just how often, how much you're drinking. But I would say the primary way to distinguish that gray area is it is more mental, emotional. You can take it or leave it. The stats are about 10%.

of heavy habitual drinkers are in the physical addiction category. Meaning you're gonna need some medical supervision, you're gonna need to taper off, you're gonna need to look at it. And again, I think if anyone's not sure, err on the side of, you know, getting some, letting your doctor know, know, doing things that are healthy for you because at that end of the spectrum, that 10%,

Cecily Lachapelle (35:19.416)

Okay.

Cecily Lachapelle (35:37.09)

Hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (35:42.647)

You know, that can be really life threatening. But for the majority of drinkers, it's kind of like a bell curve. Picture that, you know, like we had in school. That bell curve. Not a lot of people on either end. A lot of people in the middle. It's that average. And so I would say the average, at least here in America, the average American drinker that drinks on a regular basis, that's either, you know, Weekend Binger,

Cecily Lachapelle (35:45.442)

Okay.

Cecily Lachapelle (35:50.126)

Mm. Mm.

Cecily Lachapelle (35:56.618)

Sure.

Jenn Kautsch (36:10.449)

or has a couple of glasses every night is gonna fall in that middle category. And so the good news, the good news though with the gray area drinking is now there are resources, I'm just one of them, there are resources out there to meet people in the gray area. Because if you're, know, feeling in the gray area, going to, you know, a 12 step program meeting where you are talking about

Cecily Lachapelle (36:15.906)

Gotcha.

Jenn Kautsch (36:39.039)

labels and significant rock bottoms. Who knows that may be helpful for you. I'm a big fan of whatever works. So if that works, go there, do that. But I think sometimes that's really intimidating or off-putting or just doesn't resonate. And that was me. I was like, wow, that to me to get to that point would have been, I just couldn't even get there. I think it would have shut down my curiosity.

Cecily Lachapelle (36:45.944)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (36:54.178)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (37:05.814)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Jenn Kautsch (37:08.975)

and brought up more shame. Where as a gray area drinker, I had enough shame as it was. I needed more curiosity.

Cecily Lachapelle (37:11.82)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (37:15.19)

Right. So what type of woman or man finds themselves there feeling stuck, not seen or supported because if they're not going to an AA meeting or a 12 step meeting, then what are they going to do? So what type of person typically finds themselves there?

Jenn Kautsch (37:35.371)

I think it can be a really lonely place. I've been on a lot of panels at this point with people that are all different points on the drinking spectrum, typically on the far, far end, where it just got more physical. And trying to describe gray area drinking when we notoriously know about the physical side of drinking, it's hard to quantify, qualify, I guess you could say, because it's invisible. So I think a gray area drinker typically

Cecily Lachapelle (37:58.925)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (38:04.567)

is super high functioning, probably over functioning, over responsible, if anything. A lot of the women I can just say that I work with are extremely successful and really killing it out there. They're getting it done. And so a lot of that gray area drinking is work hard, play hard, getting it done and then getting the eject button.

Cecily Lachapelle (38:23.33)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (38:29.439)

Mmm.

Jenn Kautsch (38:34.421)

ready. You know, that it's, it's, know, it's typically just really high producers, high performers. And in our society, it's all about rewarding that with, and now you deserve the drink. And because there's, there's that level of, you know, what happened for me in my own relationship with drinking.

Cecily Lachapelle (38:34.67)

.

Cecily Lachapelle (38:49.464)

Yeah, yeah, yes.

Jenn Kautsch (38:58.475)

really not being a drinker in my younger years, not really in my 20s. I mean, I had drinks here and there. I guess you could consider me on the drinking spectrum. I was definitely a take it or leave it. And I was more of a leave it. I don't really like the taste of it. It didn't really look attractive. It looked kind of out of control in my college years. I was in a sorority at a state school. I wasn't a drinker because, and it's not because I wanted to drink. It was trying so hard not to.

Cecily Lachapelle (39:20.71)

wow. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (39:26.613)

I actually just kind of looked around and that was a cautionary tale enough for me. you know, just to date us, just to date myself, you know, that was in the late eighties, early nineties that I was in college and that was before, you know, Uber and cell phones. And it just for me, just did not appeal even to my personality. Just, I am sure I had other coping mechanisms, but it was not.

Cecily Lachapelle (39:31.628)

Right, I bet, I bet.

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (39:40.206)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (39:45.217)

Ugh.

Jenn Kautsch (39:53.675)

with drinking. And so for me in my young thirties, I feel like as a Christian married mom, that's when I kind of got a little bit blindsided because no one was talking about gray area drinking. They were just talking about don't be an alcoholic. You know, don't drink from a paper bag in the morning. Okay, got it. Not going to do that. You know, I was confused. I didn't, I didn't know that the more you drink,

Cecily Lachapelle (40:06.818)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (40:15.946)

No, no.

Jenn Kautsch (40:21.589)

the more tolerance you build and the more tolerance you have, the more dependence you have. I mean, I guess I knew that deep down, if I really stopped to think about it, but no one was saying that. They were just saying, you know, rosé all day, t-shirts, you know. And I do think around 20 years ago now or so, they really did up the marketing game for women and alcohol. It was really a concerted effort on the alcohol industry.

Cecily Lachapelle (40:27.171)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (40:30.947)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (40:36.886)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (40:44.128)

what?

Jenn Kautsch (40:50.411)

which I really do feel like there's, you know, there's big pharma, there's big tech, there's big alcohol. And it is a huge industry that has actually kind of taken a hit with all these non-alcoholic drinks that are starting to emerge. And a lot of them are getting on the bandwagon and creating their own alcohol-free versions of their beers or de-alcoholizing their wine to sell it on label because they are seeing just from a supply demand.

Cecily Lachapelle (40:55.394)

Yes. And big tobacco.

Cecily Lachapelle (41:08.642)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (41:12.748)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (41:18.837)

that more people are starting to become sober curious. It's our age group. I'm in my mid fifties now. I just turned 54. And it's actually, I say our, my age group, our age group that is tending to drink more, not less for the first time in history. Our children, our adult children, people now, know, millennials and even Gen Z. I think that's right. We're Gen X.

Cecily Lachapelle (41:19.298)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (41:23.17)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (41:32.493)

No.

Mm. Mm. Mm.

Jenn Kautsch (41:47.223)

they're actually drinking less. Gen X and Boomers are actually drinking more. And so it's very interesting what's going on out there, but it's definitely affecting the marketplace. And so I forgot your initial question, but there's a tangent there.

Cecily Lachapelle (41:56.472)

Wow. Yeah. Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (42:03.862)

Yes.

No, no, no, are, are. The question was like, what does a woman do or a man do if they find themselves stuck in that gray area?

Jenn Kautsch (42:16.439)

Yeah, and I think for sure now there are so many resources. you're listening and you know, if you're a woman, I primarily really work with women, aka sober cis, which is really short for sober minded sisterhood. That's just a lot of words for an Instagram handle. So I shrunk it down to sober cis. Again.

Cecily Lachapelle (42:36.462)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (42:39.895)

At first, a little hesitant with the name sober in there, but I thought, well, if I don't name it something about alcohol or sober sobriety, people aren't even going to know what I'm talking about out there in the sea of social media. So I really, I wanted to bring that in, but there are so many resources now for men and women to, know, whether it's like our mutual friend working one-on-one with a coach, especially if I have men that do follow me or reach out or have a, somebody has a brother or a son or a husband.

Cecily Lachapelle (42:46.435)

Yeah.

Right. Right. Right.

I'm

Cecily Lachapelle (43:03.224)

Yes.

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (43:09.43)

Yes, Eric is so good. Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (43:09.867)

You know, it is nice to have so many resources, but I think at this point, there's so many podcasts and books and things now. And my whole program is built for women who are sober curious, who are in that gray area, who want to hit the reset button and really just, you know, pull off the drinking highway, pop the hood and see what's going on in there. And then you can decide if you want to get back on the drinking highway or not, because we're not at...

Cecily Lachapelle (43:16.888)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Cecily Lachapelle (43:37.24)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (43:38.173)

abstinence only sobriety program. It's not the goal is not abstinence. The goal is presence. And so kind of leading women into their own journey. And I just believe that the more time you have sober minded, clear minded, the more your body can get back into balance with that homeostasis, the more you're going to want that feeling and that mindset and that freedom.

Cecily Lachapelle (43:41.678)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (43:46.318)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (43:59.544)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (44:07.191)

and that ends up helping women pursue more. But I think it's a lot out of the gate for a gray area drinker to go, I wanna sign up for your coaching program or download your free guide and I'm never gonna drink again. A gray area drinker is probably not gonna start there. A gray area drinker is gonna need to start with maybe taking a break or hitting the reset button because it's pretty extreme for a gray area drinker.

Cecily Lachapelle (44:07.861)

huh.

Cecily Lachapelle (44:21.675)

Right.

Mm.

Cecily Lachapelle (44:29.198)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (44:35.409)

Even though that may be their heart's desire, as I know it was mine, I just, here's the honest truth, I just wanted to not want it. I wanted to not want it, but those neuro pathways were so burned in my hard drive to want it. I actually had created the desire for alcohol by repetition. I didn't have it before I repeatedly did the action. I did not have that desire.

Cecily Lachapelle (44:38.178)

Yeah. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (44:43.596)

Yes.

No.

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (44:57.068)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (45:01.975)

And I can say that because I didn't even start really drinking on a regular basis until I was 32, maybe. So I know for sure I didn't have the desire for alcohol until I created the desire for alcohol. And I also think the enemy of our souls was waiting in the wings and just kind of, you know, just again, kind of that side, side entry. I mean, it was not a direct hit. It was just kind of came in sideways.

Cecily Lachapelle (45:02.466)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (45:08.898)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (45:14.732)

Well, yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (45:26.445)

Yeah.

Right, right, if he had come at you as in a frontal assault, you would have like hit the prayer chain, out the Bible, yeah, the whole thing. But it's those sneak attacks that come in.

Jenn Kautsch (45:33.621)

Yep. I would have been like, no.

slipped in.

Well, and then the sneak attack was even as a Christian is don't be legalistic. Show your children moderation. I grew up with parents that didn't drink at all. So for me, which was great, I was the benefactor of them having more of a cautionary tale in their parents and their parents' parents. So by the time my brother and I came along, they were more in the let's just skip it altogether. Well, that was great for me.

Cecily Lachapelle (45:48.686)

Mm.

Yeah, I heard that. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (46:03.17)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (46:11.863)

but then it also didn't open up a lot of conversation around drinking. I didn't really see it modeled good or bad. It was just kind of a moot point. And so that's part of why I got blindsided and why I'm really passionate about making the conversation normal so that you can talk about it with your teenage kids, your adult kids, your tennis friends. I mean, people need to be talking about their relationship with alcohol just like they do sugar.

Cecily Lachapelle (46:16.366)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (46:28.694)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (46:41.195)

or anything else.

Cecily Lachapelle (46:41.826)

Yes. Yup. Absolutely. So what would you say to somebody listening to this right now who is quietly wondering, this really a big deal? Like, I don't know if I really need to go down this road, but who knows deep down that something is off?

Jenn Kautsch (47:04.235)

Right. I would say listen to that nudge, that whisper. You know, call it the Holy Spirit for sure I would or intuition or just that gut feeling. I would listen to that because it's like a warning light going off on the dashboard. You don't need to crash your car. You know, if that warning light's going and not literally, I mean, you could. Literally that can happen with drinking but.

Cecily Lachapelle (47:07.886)

Hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (47:22.704)

Yes, yes. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (47:32.417)

just figuratively speaking, you know, if you're driving your car around and you've got a warning light, you just pull over and, you know, check the tires, you know, get an oil change. I think that that nudge and that whisper and that inner knowing is a real opportunity. And I say, don't miss the opportunity that's being presented and just blow it off. And then years down the road,

Cecily Lachapelle (47:41.836)

Yes. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (47:51.276)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (47:55.458)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (47:59.295)

you know, your car's really suffering at that point and multiple lights are on and now it's gonna cost a lot more. It's gonna cost a lot more. It's gonna be a lot more difficult to change things. You may, you know, again, you don't wanna go to the nth degree and crash the car and need a brand new car. So I would say take the warning as valuable feedback. It's just data.

Cecily Lachapelle (48:03.052)

Right. Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (48:09.623)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (48:21.974)

Yes, yes. And I would add to that, that like Jen said, there are so many great resources. There are podcasts. I listen to one that I love, but Jesus Drank Wine. That's actually the name of the podcast. Super cute. Jen has information. She's on YouTube. She's on Instagram. I'm going to put all of her handles in the show notes. You could get her devotional book.

This is great. This is just literally, I love this. I've read the whole thing. They're just short daily devotionals. Like here's one, this chapter right here, rejecting the lies. And it's just a couple, like two and a half pages. You can do that. You can read two and a half pages. And it just resets your mind. If you read it in the morning, it would help you be.

thinking about that during the day. If you had a journal next to you and you were also journaling along with that, and if you're someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit, have a relationship with the Lord, you know you can hear from God, then you can ask the Lord, am I in this? Is this describing me? Why am I hearing a little like, are you clearing your throat back there, Holy Spirit? And I'm ignoring it. So like Jen said, there are so many resources. If you're curious,

Don't ignore that little voice. I think that's a really great point. So Jen, you said before that alcohol was a way for you to check out, and now you help women check back in. So what are some of the deeper things that women are truly seeking beneath the surface of their evening glass of wine? What do they really want that they think wine is going to fill?

Jenn Kautsch (49:48.213)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (50:06.645)

Yeah, exactly. know, one of the tools that's out there, and I do think this actually came from AA, but I love it, is called the HALT method. And it is just almost like a scan, like a body scan. That's right, that's right. And I'll add anxiety in with the A for the anger or anxious and boredom. think that's a...

Cecily Lachapelle (50:19.021)

Okay.

Cecily Lachapelle (50:22.422)

Is that the hungry, angry, lonely or tired?

Jenn Kautsch (50:33.399)

big, big play out there during COVID, during the pandemic. watched so many women just their relationship with drinking morphed from being social to now being almost like having to be anti-social and being, you know, locked in and trapped down or working from home. And then all of a sudden it's like drinking just went up out of anxiety and boredom. So I think a lot of times we are looking to just escape reality.

Cecily Lachapelle (50:49.102)

Yeah.

Yes.

Hmm. Wow.

Jenn Kautsch (51:02.837)

whatever reality that is, and we're trying to throw drinking at every need we have at a certain time of day. As if at five o'clock, if you're hungry, well, eat. If you're anxious or angry, well, reach out to the person and talk it through or journal about it or take a walk. If you're lonely, there are so many ways we can connect now in a meaningful way.

Cecily Lachapelle (51:03.246)

Thanks

Cecily Lachapelle (51:09.614)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (51:24.952)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (51:30.963)

instead of just mindlessly scrolling, that makes us feel more lonely, actually, and more ostracized and like we're not a part of the group. And if you're tired, maybe you just need some tea and a nap. We're trying to, that we have so many needs. And that's been one of my biggest breakthroughs personally on this journey, is just being able to look at the array of needs and going, okay, what is it that I really do need?

Cecily Lachapelle (51:39.96)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (51:44.14)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (51:52.782)

Hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (52:00.465)

And just because I have a need, it need me need I need to check out that I need to eject? I can actually now ask the Lord to meet that need, ask another person or I can meet that need. But it's not always the same answer for the same, you know, for different questions. So I think I think that's a lot of it. But I think a lot of it is there. There is that kind of.

Cecily Lachapelle (52:06.83)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (52:15.276)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (52:19.414)

Yes. Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (52:27.049)

inner loneliness or stirring of anxiety or fear. And let's face it, alcohol is a drug that is mind-altering quickly. It works quickly. And man, that first glass, that first glass and that 20-minute buzz is pretty hard to duplicate out there in such a socially acceptable way.

Cecily Lachapelle (52:39.042)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (52:44.462)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (52:53.643)

where you can actually do it with other people and be seen as fun. So it's a pretty big deal to just go ahead and recognize that yes, that 20 minute buzz is anesthetizing whatever it is that is uncomfortable for you, that is hard for you. And it's really drilling in your brain, in your psyche, in your spirit, in your body that you need that to then handle those hard things.

Cecily Lachapelle (52:53.866)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (53:20.472)

Yes.

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (53:23.307)

What I saw in me was just before I started drinking, I had a lot of resilience. Before I started drinking and outsourcing my strength and my comfort and my I can get through this to a drink, I had that more inside. I was leaning on the Lord more to do that. And quite honestly, just my own wherewithal of just having a clear mind. And I watched myself

slowly over the decade and a half or so building up this relationship with drinking, watch my own resilience erode. It was as if it was an erosion. And it got to the point where I was like, I don't even think I can get in the car with my family of four and go to dinner with everyone, you know, feeling chaotic and conflict. I've recently

Cecily Lachapelle (54:02.237)

wow.

Cecily Lachapelle (54:16.814)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (54:18.677)

been studying more about the Enneagram and just our personalities. And my whole family is all in the same triad. We're all in that gut anger triad, the all four of us in different numbers. And so there's just a lot of that heat and just intensity. For me, I really even got to the point where my nerves were so high and my anticipation of conflict was so geared up that a lot of times I would just kind of pregame.

Cecily Lachapelle (54:33.742)

Spicy!

Cecily Lachapelle (54:44.844)

Jenn Kautsch (54:47.953)

I know a lot of moms are listening to me right now or women in general are listening and you know I'm talking about you're getting ready, you're doing your hair, your makeup, you're like you know it's five o'clock already. I mean we're not going out to dinner until six or seven. I think I'll just have a glass while I'm getting ready and we just, it's a slippery slope because that would start the, what I call the bottle breakdown which is actually what I had worked up to with just enough

routine, repetitive behavior and enough tolerance that I had worked up to easily being able to have a bottle of wine on any given night on my own and be pretty high functioning out there. And it all started like this. I mean, let me just break it down. It was five o'clock, wine o'clock. So there's one glass right there. It's just, it's the five o'clock starter glass.

Cecily Lachapelle (55:36.398)

Yes. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (55:42.57)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (55:42.697)

It's the opening of the bottle and saying, I'm not going to drink more than a glass tonight, but I'm definitely going to have something. Come on. And so I would, while I was cooking or getting ready to go out, that first glass was just the intro, just the intro glass. And again, my goal was never to overdo it, never to overdrink. It's that moderation management mindset of I'm going to have just enough to feel.

Cecily Lachapelle (56:01.198)

Sure.

Cecily Lachapelle (56:05.345)

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (56:08.213)

the effects I want, but never too much that I have any negative consequences or effects. I just try to balance that. so yeah, glass number two, that's easy because you're just following up glass number one with, you know, maybe while you're cooking, people are running late, so you'll just have a little bit more. If you're going out, you've already maybe had a little bit at home before, just while you're making it more fun, getting ready. You have another one at the restaurant, there's number two. Number three,

Cecily Lachapelle (56:13.526)

Right.

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (56:37.431)

is, you know, a lot of times for me when I was cooking in the kitchen, it was at the kitchen sink. I'm cleaning the same skillet that I had glass number one with while I was cooking it. Now I had glass number two while we're eating it. I have glass number three while I'm cleaning it. And this is not the plan. This is not like what I set out to do. And it's eight o'clock. This is three hours in. So it's not like, you know, chugging it fast and acting crazy. This is like

Cecily Lachapelle (56:47.182)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (56:57.42)

Right. Yes. Yes. Right.

Jenn Kautsch (57:06.263)

I'm just gonna have a glass of gas and water. ate dinner and I'm just gonna have a little bit more. And before you know it, you look and you're like, oh my word, what is happening?

Cecily Lachapelle (57:08.782)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (57:12.333)

Yeah.

And before you know it, when you start adding up, how many glasses of wine do I have a week?

Jenn Kautsch (57:20.521)

Yes! Yeah!

Cecily Lachapelle (57:22.526)

you start doing that math, if you're honest, then...

Jenn Kautsch (57:25.215)

If you're honest, and that's a huge part of what we're talking about here is being honest. Because when you look at the cumulative effect or you really break it down, you know, because that fourth glass was just like, no, I have now crossed the line. I did not really intend to go this far, but I'm fine. I mean, nobody probably even cares or notices, which was also that shrinking down, that plank small shrinking down. Nobody even cares.

Cecily Lachapelle (57:42.136)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (57:53.783)

And I think they do care. think your presence does matter. I think that we have devalued ourselves and valued alcohol way too high. And so, yeah, just stepping into that, know, once you can get ahead of the cycle itself through your thinking, I say in my book, I had more of a thinking problem than I did a drinking problem. And that's actually true because my drinking was really...

Cecily Lachapelle (58:04.792)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (58:12.43)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (58:18.22)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (58:23.539)

a repercussion of my thinking. It was what I was doing because of my thoughts.

Cecily Lachapelle (58:26.85)

Sure.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that that can be true, like I said earlier, with so many habits that we run to for comfort, for relief, to give us boldness or to be a dopamine hit. And we run to that and don't even realize how quickly it has now become an idol.

It's something that we run to before we run to God. And then if you are, if you're someone who is a child of God on the inside, there is that check in your spirit of saying, I'm out of alignment here. I'm putting something, whether it's a relationship, whether it's a substance, whether it's a habit.

whatever it is, I'm putting something before the Lord. And any time it snaps its fingers, I jump. But when the Lord wants to be like, hey, can you come away? Not right now, I'm busy. Or I'm in the middle of a behavior that I don't think you'd really appreciate. So I will check in with you later. And it also creates a cycle of regret and it creates a cycle of shame, no matter what those things are.

So you must feel so amazing being free from that cycle of regret and shame. So how has your faith shifted or deepened since embracing sober-minded living?

Jenn Kautsch (01:00:14.261)

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. you know, I think for me and a lot of women that I work with, my why, why I wanted to get back to being who God created me to be without having this third party, this idol, like you said, kind of in between us and in our way is wholehearted. I just feel so much more wholehearted. And the honesty and awareness

Cecily Lachapelle (01:00:38.06)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:00:41.634)

Mmm.

Jenn Kautsch (01:00:44.445)

is not from a place of judgment leading to performance. It really is coming from a place of, wow, Lord, you're revealing things to me so that I can become even more whole and more healed. So I don't have to run anymore from those uncomfortable feelings or moments. And I still have them. It's not like you become alcohol free or get rid of any other habit that's not serving you. And then all of a sudden, voila.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:01:13.422)

You're also problem-free, anxiety-free, stress-free.

Jenn Kautsch (01:01:14.071)

You're good to go. No, I-

Yeah, I face all of those things all the time. In fact, if anything, sometimes more than ever. And I think being able to approach those wholehearted and knowing that my resilience is there because God's given it to me. I just need to tap into it and practicing, practicing, knowing that, you know, he is trustworthy. I can lean on him. He's not a crutch. He's a rock. He's like the solid source.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:01:23.853)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:01:44.718)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (01:01:46.845)

And so I can stand tall and I can show up and where I'm falling short, he fills in the gaps. He can use anybody and he can do anything. And he doesn't need our perfection, our performance, our togetherness. He wants our presence and our progress, just celebrating the progress along the way. So for me,

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:04.066)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:08.225)

Yes.

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:02:12.383)

just letting go of that duplicity and that divided mind, still embracing, as Renee Brown calls it, the gifts of imperfection. It's become more about just, I'm just gonna do my best and that's enough. And if I'm feeling the feels, positive or negative, I don't need to enhance or eject. I don't need to make something good try to be greater.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:17.262)

Mm-hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:21.955)

You

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:36.386)

Yes.

Yeah. Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:02:40.629)

by drinking, because I drink for celebratory and good reasons too. I wasn't always drinking because I was sad or mad. Sometimes I was drinking because I was traveling or happy or that's what they tell you to do on vacation. And so, yeah, I think it just feels good to just let go of the mental tug of war and just be present.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:44.536)

Sure.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:48.376)

Mm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:02:53.716)

Right, right.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:03:05.038)

That is so great. I love it. Well, now tell us about the quest because we haven't talked about that yet. And what happens when women step into that next level of growth and sisterhood? What is the quest?

Jenn Kautsch (01:03:19.415)

Yeah, yeah. So in Sobersist, and I've been doing this at the time of this recording in 2025, I've been doing Sobersist since 2018. So it's been going for a while and every step of the way, God has literally just given me just enough light for the step I'm on, truly. And every program, every step of the way has just been what do women need? Not what do I need to create to build this

Cecily Lachapelle (01:03:37.998)

Sure.

Jenn Kautsch (01:03:48.663)

sober, you know, empire. It's what do women need and how can we meet that need in a way that builds community? And so it all started with the 21 Day Reset Challenge back in 2018. That's kind of what I offered women was that opportunity to take a break. And then in 2020, again, God's timing for sure, I wrote a 10 week online course called AFL.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:03:51.694)

Cecily Lachapelle (01:04:13.174)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:04:17.035)

alcohol-free lifestyle course. And in that 10 weeks, I talk about the pillars of building an alcohol-free lifestyle. And then after those two steps, which are more stop, start, know, have an ending kind of programs, then women can enter into the Quest. And that is what I've named my nonprofit after. It's called the Quest Foundation. And women in the Quest are a part of that. They are now really on the front lines paying it forward.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:04:19.307)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:04:24.782)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:04:31.138)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (01:04:46.635)

giving back and being a part of bringing new women into our community who are also sober curious and want to hit the reset button. And it's a beautiful thing because, know, again, I've not done AA. I'm a fan of whatever works. And I know AA has the wonderful 12 step program and the 12 step of the program from what I understand is service and giving back and

Cecily Lachapelle (01:04:52.206)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:05:13.464)

Yes, yes, I'm sure.

Jenn Kautsch (01:05:14.813)

isn't that a pillar of anything good is taking what you've received, getting the healing that you needed, finding the resources you were looking for, and then being able to share that with others really keeps it going. And so what I'm noticing in the Quest Foundation and with our Quest Sisters is that's exactly what they're doing. They're on their own freedom journey, but they've experienced enough freedom to know that there's still a woman at the kitchen sink.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:05:22.544)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:05:28.588)

Yes. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:05:38.574)

and

Cecily Lachapelle (01:05:42.274)

to go.

Jenn Kautsch (01:05:44.807)

That's kind of my visual, because that was me. I was the woman at the kitchen sink on my third glass of wine at 8 p.m. on a Tuesday night, a school night, just thinking, how did I get here? And how do I get out? Because I don't have to do this. I physically can go days or weeks without drinking, but I'm going to end up back here again. So like, how do I break free?

Cecily Lachapelle (01:05:44.972)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Hmm.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Jenn Kautsch (01:06:10.301)

It is that woman at the kitchen sink. again, maybe she's killing it by day, meaning high powered CEO, getting the kids to school. She may be a pastor's wife, a Bible study leader, the PTA mom. We're getting it done. who are you? You're taking care of everybody else. Who's taking care of you? And that's what our sisterhood is really doing. We're taking care of each other and going, I see you.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:06:22.914)

Yeah. I'm a mom. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:06:32.79)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:06:38.615)

You matter and real self-care looks like this. Let me show you other ways to care for yourself because you do deserve me time. You do deserve a reward and it needs to be restorative and life-giving, not taking from you and tricking you and lying to you and then shaming you for it. That's a ripoff. And so that's what we're doing is

Cecily Lachapelle (01:06:45.144)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:06:53.772)

Yes. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:06:59.842)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:07:05.259)

We're creating this full circle kind of infinity loop, if you will, where women are coming in or maybe they're downloading my free guide. I've got a free guide for kind of wine o'clock tonight or a happy hour survival guide. Women can even join my free community and just kind of get to get a sense of our sisterhood and then move on from there. But it's been really neat to watch this thing grow because when I said yes to the Lord, I didn't really know.

I don't think anybody does. When they say yes, it's just a faith walk. And I said yes because I wanted more women to know what I knew, what I had just learned. I was not even a year into my alcohol-free journey when God tapped me on the shoulder and said, I think I want you to go out there and share this with more women while you're learning, while you're growing, not because I had it all together.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:07:45.037)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:07:49.344)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:07:54.552)

Yeah. Yes. Right. And that's why I think the quest is going to be an extremely successful foundation because you're giving women a platform to do what you did. And I know in my own life, the territory that I really own spiritually is that hard fought hallelujah that as the Brandon Lake song says,

Jenn Kautsch (01:08:20.565)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:08:23.438)

the ground where there was blood, sweat and tears there, where I thought I was going to die in this spot because my flesh was miserable or my soul was under attack. And I saw God come through for me. I saw him come through in a rescue of dramatic proportions. Yes. And then after that, the thing that came to take you out is now a sword in your hand.

Jenn Kautsch (01:08:40.191)

And it's unmistakable, like you know.

Jenn Kautsch (01:08:50.347)

Yep. That's right.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:08:52.888)

that you go back onto that battlefield where you almost died and you go to rescue other people. And that's ground you own. It's territory you own. Nobody can convince you that God didn't show up for you there because you lived it. And nobody can convince you that victory is impossible because you're living it. You're living in that victory. You're the testimony.

Jenn Kautsch (01:08:56.097)

That's right. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (01:09:09.847)

That's right.

Jenn Kautsch (01:09:16.575)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:09:20.16)

And so you can go back to those people that have no, you say, to your word, hope, who have no vision and those women, you're one person. And now it's like that commercial and we're going to totally date ourselves here about that shampoo commercial. And she told two friends and she told two friends and she told two friends and it's this exponential thing. And we as women are really good at this. We're really good. Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:09:36.596)

you

Yeah

Jenn Kautsch (01:09:46.39)

We are good at this. And I tell you, I talked earlier about big pharma, big alcohol and big tech, which is actually something that I'm running into. As we've got this incredible mission and this message that's so important for women to hear, it's becoming increasingly harder to get the message out unless we mobilize the troops.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:10:06.499)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:10:10.616)

Why? I see.

Jenn Kautsch (01:10:14.423)

You know, I think social media is just getting crowded and getting greedy, quite honestly, the people that are running the show. You've got to pay to play a lot. I think there is, and then there's just the spiritual realm. There's just the spiritual warfare that goes with, you know, getting into enemy territory. And so I think when women feel empowered and emboldened and then have a vehicle to do it.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:10:17.77)

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:10:32.184)

True story. Yep.

Jenn Kautsch (01:10:44.361)

And that's really what we're doing with the Quest Foundation by making it a nonprofit where people can literally, whether they've been affected by alcohol personally, and this is part of their story, or for someone else, it can make a literal difference on the front lines because a lot of women just don't know yet that we exist and yet there are power in numbers. And I'm excited about what God's going to do as I, you know, near almost the decade mark of doing this work full time.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:11:06.606)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:11:14.367)

I really believe God is about to have a shift and has built the infrastructure to be able to hold the plans that he has for us, which are good.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:11:26.734)

That is so great. Well, for my listeners, if you start following Jen, you're going to see that she has amazing content on her social media. She interviews people in all of the medical spaces, the psychology spaces, the brain neuroscience spaces, the sobriety spaces. She's just got an amazing now because she's been doing this for so long. She's an amazing network, a very deep network.

of people that she pulls on to get information into women's hands so that it's not always an emotional decision. Sometimes it is that moment of, wow, I did not know my brain works that way. Now armed with this information, I can actually attack this problem, understanding I'm bigger than my brain.

My mind is more powerful than my brain. My brain is an organ in my body that's going to work the way I train it to work. And my mind is where my emotions, my will is. And if my will decides that brain, you're going to think these thoughts. Brain, you're going to believe these things and see this vision. Our will is greater. Our mind is greater than our brain. And we can, over time,

Jenn Kautsch (01:12:28.715)

That's right.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:12:51.316)

rewire those automatic synapses, those automatic things that just fire and we think, we got to go that way, know, squirrel, I have to go, I have to look at this, I have to obey that. And then our flesh is involved too, our body says, yeah, you need that right now, I agree with the brain, yes, let's go. And there's no gate. There's absolutely nobody with a bridge out sign.

But when you're listening to Jen's information, it becomes that person that is standing there with the bridge outside going, why don't you just pump the brakes? Just before you do that, what about thinking about these things first? Because you actually might like this outcome better. And let's try it out. You have choices. We live so much of our life as if we don't have choices. We wouldn't say it that way.

Jenn Kautsch (01:13:40.181)

You have choices. You have options. Yep.

Jenn Kautsch (01:13:47.191)

Right. All right.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:13:48.792)

We would say, of course I know, have a choice. But when we're living in a cycle that we would love to stop, but now we feel either powerless or disempowered to stop, then we have surrendered our choices. We've yielded our choices. So for any of you who are exhausted from this cycle,

Jenn Kautsch (01:14:03.189)

Right? Right.

Jenn Kautsch (01:14:08.459)

That's exactly right.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:14:16.706)

I'm just gonna have Jen really quickly tell you a few ways that you can start exploring this lifestyle without pressure or labels before we sign off.

Jenn Kautsch (01:14:25.941)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And it is so exhausting. I'm glad you use that word. I think being in that detox to retox loop, whether that be every weekend or every other day or every day is really tiring. So I think a lot of this just really boils down to giving yourself lots of grace and slowing it down, just slowing it down. think we're just moving so fast out there.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:14:48.539)

I'm done.

you

Jenn Kautsch (01:14:54.239)

So just slow the roll, slow the pace, and really just begin to really have compassion on yourself and not see yourself as so broken, but see your pattern as what is broken, not you. God made you to walk wholehearted and you can do that. And you're not broken, just your pattern's broken and that there is great hope. So I think a lot of it is just starting out with like,

Cecily Lachapelle (01:14:57.184)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:15:09.762)

Yes. Come on.

Jenn Kautsch (01:15:23.807)

not just hitting it with more grind and more willpower and just more, because that's a lot of what got us there in the first place. It's a lot of what makes someone high functioning, high powered, high producing, want to hit the eject button. So you don't want to approach your relationship with drinking or changing a behavior with that same intensity of like, you want to show up committed, but not with that same.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:15:28.376)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:15:45.12)

Yes. Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (01:15:47.915)

grit grind of just more willpower because that's that fails us. We have something called decision fatigue and it's very real and it sets in. So I think I think kind of setting the stage for yourself of this is more about learning than it is performing. This is more about curiosity than it is checking a box. And so I think just starting off with just awareness is super key when I just began to even before I changed my relationship with drinking just starting to notice.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:16:03.426)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:16:07.308)

Yes. Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:16:12.206)

you

Jenn Kautsch (01:16:17.301)

Like where did my good intentions at 10 a.m. go by 3 p.m. so that I was drinking by 5 p.m.? Like what happened? Like where did it go off the rails? I wasn't even sure. And because I woke up that morning for sure. Like I am gonna work out. I've had my little quiet time. I'm gonna work out. I'm gonna do my green juice. I am not drinking tonight. Okay, maybe I will just have one. What happened? Like where did it go?

Cecily Lachapelle (01:16:22.668)

Yes. Right.

Jenn Kautsch (01:16:44.713)

And just even beginning to write down your thoughts in more of an observing way than a stop thinking that way. Don't do that. You know, our brains don't, our brains don't respond that way. So just beginning to bring in awareness is key. And I talk a lot about the three P's and so I'll just say those real quick because I love leaving women with, or your listeners with just some practical kind of handles to hold onto.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:16:44.97)

Right.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:16:56.448)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:17:10.52)

That's good.

Jenn Kautsch (01:17:10.891)

from listening to this podcast and giving us their time, which we value. We want to give them some practical things to hold on to. So I think the three P's going into any situation, but it really helps with drinking. If you're trying to take a night off or the weekend off or really change it. In addition to my free guide, which I talk about some of these strategies there, I love the three P's. They're easy to remember. You want to pre-decide, pre-plan and play the movie forward.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:17:14.381)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (01:17:40.905)

So, pre-decide. If you get into your kitchen at five o'clock, wine o'clock, and you haven't yet decided, like decided, I'm not drinking tonight. Now, the other two are gonna be critical to making it happen. Or going to a networking event, or a holiday party, or an excursion of any kind, or traveling. You cannot typically decide when you get there. Like, just kind of walk in to an atmosphere where drinking is the norm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:17:41.282)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:17:49.294)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:17:58.082)

Mmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:18:04.898)

Yes.

Jenn Kautsch (01:18:10.295)

It's your default button. If you walk in like, don't know, maybe, we'll see. I'll kind of play it by ear. I'll get the vibe. I'll see how I feel. Chances are, chances are really high you're going to do what you've always done, even if it's not really what you want to do. So, pre-decide is critical, but you can't just pre-decide and then not have a plan. So pre-plan is critical because it's like, well, I'm not going to drink tonight.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:18:10.478)

Hmm.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:18:21.086)

It's all over.

Jenn Kautsch (01:18:39.541)

I'm not gonna drink on this vacation or at this pool party, but this is what I am gonna do. This is what I am gonna say. I'm going to bring my own drink. I'm going to walk in with a drink in my hand. When someone says, hey Jen, can I get you a drink? You need to know what you're gonna say. Pre-plan, yes, I would love some water. I've been running around all day, I would love to start with some water. Or,

Cecily Lachapelle (01:18:58.702)

Hmm

Jenn Kautsch (01:19:05.727)

Yes, I brought something I'd love to open it and try it and have everyone have it as well. Whatever your answer is, I try to be positive, upbeat and yes, not downtrodden and no, but pre-planning, know, or why aren't you drinking? Are you not drinking? What happened? You know, you just got to, you've got to have almost like a planned script, if you will, especially

Cecily Lachapelle (01:19:05.816)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:19:17.069)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:19:25.91)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (01:19:32.489)

If your friends or family know you as a drinker or expect you to drink and you're trying to change that, you've got to pre-plan how you want to show up, what you want to say. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's really smart. So pre-decide, pre-plan. Then my favorite tool is play the movie forward. How do you want to feel later? How do you want to not only show up there, but how do you want to sleep that night? What kind of energy do you want to have the next day?

two days from then, three days from then. It takes about seven to 10 days to get alcohol and its effects out of our system. So that means if I'm drinking on a Friday night and I'm having a few, that's gonna affect me on Monday, Monday, because it's gonna increase my cortisol levels. The dinorphin that's shooting through my body at 3 a.m. is taking me way out of balance. So it is causing all kinds of

Cecily Lachapelle (01:20:22.51)

Yeah.

Jenn Kautsch (01:20:30.807)

hormonal and ramifications in your body that takes days to settle out from. So play that movie forward. I always plan my Friday night based on my Saturday morning. They are tied together. And I used to see them as very separate. Like, I'll just do whatever on a Friday night and then I'll work out or go on a walk Saturday morning. We'll break even. No, they're very connected. They're very attached.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:20:44.256)

Yeah.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:20:54.402)

haha

Jenn Kautsch (01:20:58.933)

And you can play that movie forward two ways. You can play the movie the way you want it to go, or you can play the movie the way it typically goes and then see if that's the outcome you want. You can rewrite the movie. You can rewrite the script as you go and decide you want to play it a different way.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:21:08.674)

Yes.

it's

Yeah, that's awesome. That so great.

Jenn Kautsch (01:21:17.227)

So think those are kind of some practical tools going in.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:21:22.058)

Yes, I love that. So just say it one more time. The three P's are...

Jenn Kautsch (01:21:25.183)

Yeah, three P's you want to pre-decide, pre-plan, and then play the movie forward. How do you want to be and feel afterwards or the next day?

Cecily Lachapelle (01:21:37.422)

So great. Well, before we sign off, would you please pray for our listeners, especially for men or women that are now curious, thinking about that gray area.

Jenn Kautsch (01:21:52.695)

Sure, yeah. Dear Heavenly Father, I just thank you so much for this opportunity in this day just to be a messenger and an ambassador of your freedom and your glory. Lord, I ask that if anyone is listening to the sound of my voice, just like I heard voices early on that resonated with me, Lord, I pray that you would use this conversation and just my story and this voice.

that you've given me to reach out, reach through the sound waves and draw someone in closer to you. It is humbling, Lord, to walk with you, to be known by you and be used by you. And I just pray that as women listening to this, that they'll feel it too, in Jesus' name.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:22:34.018)

Yes.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:22:38.764)

Yes, amen. Amen. Well, listeners, I just want to remind you that you are saved by grace. You are saved by faith in the blood of the Lamb that was shed for you, not by your works, but by grace. And our sanctification is exactly the same way. We don't start off in grace and then God says, okay, this is who I want you to be. So good luck with that. I hope it all works out for you.

the Lord continues to pour out grace upon grace on us so that we can walk out our assignment, so we can do the works that He's planned for us to do, so that we can follow through on those things that He points out and our very best intentions. We can't, like Jen said, we can't will ourselves into a godly, sanctified version of ourselves. We just can't.

We need the Holy Spirit. So I encourage you, if you feel stuck in any area, whether it is with alcohol, whether it is with food, whether it is with bitterness and unforgiveness, whether it is with anxiety or double-mindedness or doubt, whatever, you are finding yourself mentally, emotionally, or spiritually stuck in. The one who sets the captives free is named Jesus Christ.

He is the only one who can get your feet out of the shackles. He's the only one who is the key. And it's only in the name of Jesus that every knee has to bow. And so the enemy has lost his legal right to hold you when you stand on the covenant that Jesus has opened up for you. So I just want to encourage you, if you're feeling stuck, if any of this has overwhelmed you, if you're feeling like,

wow, I really didn't even want to talk about this, let alone think about it. Take a breath. Take a breath. God's got you. He is not asking you to do something like this. He's just saying, come to me, come to me and let me lavish my grace upon you to give you the desire and the ability to walk in my will. It's not on you. It's your part.

Cecily Lachapelle (01:25:04.758)

is to go into his presence and let him do in you and through you what only he can do. So I hope that encouraged you. And guys, if this episode blessed you, I'm gonna ask you to share this interview on social media so that other people can benefit. And if you haven't already, subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening to it, whether it's Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and also join my email list on my website, which is

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