Tiniest of Seeds

Discovering God’s Steadfast Love: Surrender More, Strive Less

• Laurine Decker & Kari Levang • Season 1 • Episode 17

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Are you striving to surrender more in your faith? Guest Kari Levang and I realize how often we fail to recognize God's steadfastness and find ourselves trying to be the steadfast ones. How about a shift in perspective - from working harder to surrendering more and relying on God's unwavering love and mercy. We dive into the concept of HIS rest and how it provides peace and confidence and direction in our lives.

We also take a look at the impact of God's steadfast love on our relationships. As we experience his love firsthand, we increase in our ability to give and receive love with those we are in relationship with. Kari and I have practiced this a lot and can attest to the long and hard but worthwhile journey. We share some of our personal story and experiences, and chat about the crucial role of community in our growth as disciples of Jesus.

Join us as we challenge ourselves to remain firm in the Lord's strength, identify the enemy's tactics, and stand unshaken during difficult times. Jesus sure embodied this by the power of the Spirit! We hope that our journey of recognizing God's unwavering love, mercy, and strength inspires you to tap into these divine gifts to overcome your challenges and live a fulfilling life. 

Laurine Decker:

Welcome. My name is Laurine and I just got to ask you are you feeling a little bit more desperate to know the steadfast love and mercy of the Lord, his faithfulness? I can speak for Kari and myself. Kari, from the Spacious Place, is having a conversation with me again today. We've done this together a number of times. She's one of my good friends and fellow disciples and you know what, our circumstances are pretty different right now, but I think that one thing that is universal for a lot of us is the desperate awareness of our need and, thank God, he is steadfast. Kari and and I are going to talk a little bit about that today, and Kari's and my circumstances are quite different right now. But, wow, we need to know he is steadfast, to not only know it in our heads, but to know it in our hearts. That's the ticket. So here we go.

Kari Levang:

So I'm so grateful, Laurine, that we get to continue our conversation. We have been sitting, Laurine, is in my home, and so we she spent the night last night and we're waiting for our friends to arrive today and we have spent the morning together having some really important, good conversation around the idea of steadfastness, and so, of course, we decided let's record it right, because that's what we do, and so we decided to just invite you into the conversation. So we're just going to keep going in our conversation around steadfastness, and maybe actually do you want to start with what's the verse that we were talking about? Was it in Isaiah? The steadfast love of the Lord? Never ceases.

Laurine Decker:

That's in Lamentations 3, actually, and it says the steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end.

Kari Levang:

They are new every morning, every morning.

Laurine Decker:

Great is your faithfulness, and so Kari and I have been just percolating about how often we think that we need to be steadfast and we do, and I love that verse in Isaiah that talks about setting your face like flint, like we got to do our part, but it all comes back to the steadfast love of the Lord. He is the faithful one.

Kari Levang:

Right, right Again. I feel like that's so important because I think we live in this center place often where we can remember or learn afresh what God is like, and when God says that I am steadfast all over the place, says it all over the place and then he calls us to it. I think we can so easily move into this space of I need to work harder, and I think over and over we've talked about that so many times Over and over I find more and more that the thing that the Lord is inviting us into is not working harder. I love Andy Culber's book Try Softer rather than Try Harder and I think the idea that I love around that is let's do away with this idea that we have to. We need to really work harder. In fact, what if it's a different way of approaching life in the kingdom, where it's more of a surrendered life?

Laurine Decker:

Yeah, I know, you know, Kari, because I've been talking about it with you in regard to surrender and receiving, rather than trying harder. And I'm thinking of that verse where it says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, because it's God who's at work within you, both to will and to work to his good pleasure. And we're told in Hebrews that we have this high priest and that the veil was torn and that we can boldly approach the throne of grace. And I've been so impacted about how the throne of grace is where praise is continual and it's never ceasing. And to me, that invites me to try softer. It invites me to remember God's seadfastness and his love and his praise and to remove the condemnation, to remove the striving and I'm on a roll now.

Laurine Decker:

But it talks about in Hebrews 4 that we can strive for what? To enter his rest. That is what we strive for to enter his rest. And he's gone back to that first verse that we quote in the Lamentations His love is everlasting and steadfast, his mercies are always new. We can rest in that, we can receive that.

Kari Levang:

Well, and I think that even the word strive, like striving for rest. I think that's a fascinating word because I think if we really dug deep in what striving, what he means there when he's saying striving again, goes back to what we were saying earlier. Like it's interesting. There's this interesting element to it of saying Lord, I cannot do it myself.

Laurine Decker:

No, we're desperate.

Kari Levang:

And when you think about the word steadfast, it's unwavering and unshakable and firm. And when you think I think you've got some more definitions that you looked up but when you think about even just those places, there is a confidence and a peace that comes when we even just sit in, knowing that that is what God is like, that His steadfast love isn't going anywhere. Right, it's firm, it's immovable. Nothing can shake it or change it yes, not even what I do or don't do, right At, not my circumstances. And so I was thinking, as we were talking about sharing this conversation, I was thinking about the places in my own life where I have really needed to remind myself that the steadfast love of the Lord isn't going anywhere.

Kari Levang:

It's never going anywhere, for sure, because I think I can begin to believe that I have to earn His favor or earn His love. I need to be better, right, I need to. Maybe I'm not doing something right. Right, and I think, especially being in this season of my life which we've talked about a lot like living in a place that's pretty isolated from community for me, I hate to give credit to the enemy where credit is not due, but I hate to think about him at all.

Laurine Decker:

But he's real.

Kari Levang:

And so I think he loves to steal, kill and destroy and rob us and begin for us to think, to doubt and question the love of God. And so I think this season for me has been a real, true exercise of striving for rest in new ways. Right, and just like you were talking about and just coming back over and over and over again to the Lord and being honest about where I am.

Laurine Decker:

I love that because it makes me think too of how external good works, external circumstances, external measures can never adequately portray the good works that the Lord has. The externals are definable, but the good works to be abounding. I'm thinking of that verse in Corinthians. It says be steadfast and movable, abounding in the good works of the Lord. What is the first good work? It's to remain in him, it's to praise him, to remain to love him first, and then what? To love others that are in our proximity, and I think for you. It's fascinating because Carrie and I are in very different seasons. So if someone's looking at my life externally right now, I am stretched to the limit with stuff that's going on in my community, at my church, at the places that I am involved in. Carrie is in a very different, isolated season and yet she, I can testify to, is abounding in the good work of the Lord in a different way. We need to be steadfast and keep showing up to your point of this weird and different season for you.

Kari Levang:

I really appreciate you saying that, because I think it's vital for us to remain well, first of all, vital for us to remain in him, and I think when we do, that enables us to see what does it look like for me, lord, today. What does today look like? You know exactly where I am, you know exactly who is in my life and who isn't in my life, until it looks very different. So in a lot of ways, I have found myself coming back to the place where God has put Mike and I a fresh in a place of very up close relationship 24 hours a

Kari Levang:

day days a week, which is a complete gift. It's a gift to our marriage that we've never had, and so for me to be able to remain in God so that I can grow in faithfulness and learning how to love well and receive love well, like there's just been this we've talked about this often like learning. I think when you are a person who has had wounds early on trauma, your receptors are broken and so as you grow with the Lord and he begins to heal those, there are times and places where, obviously, freedom doesn't look. You're not free 100% of the time. We don't walk in freedom 100% of the time.

Laurine Decker:

Well, we are free, but we don't walk in it.

Kari Levang:

Exactly yes, we're positionally free, but we have to walk by abiding in our freedom, and so there are times in my marriage where I my receptor, is not willing to receive Mike's love in ways that I really want to, and the only way it's not like I work harder to receive better. I say, lord, I need your help, right, because I can't do that. So it's his steadfast love, yes, that gives me what I need in order to receive love from God, from Mike, from God and from Mike, and give love away.

Kari Levang:

And so I think that our worlds, wherever you are, that's what I want to say Wherever you are, whatever season you're in, where is it that God is inviting you to a place of believing his steadfast love for you?

Laurine Decker:

Right. I want to also pause and look back toward our relationship and the steadfast nature of it and kind of correlating that also to your marriage, my marriage. Like how do we keep showing up and how are we steadfast to show up to receive, just like you were saying, to receive the love that we can presently receive so that we can grow in the more and we may have said this on another time that we've talked with our? For those of you who don't know, carrie and I and three other women joined a little entrepreneurial business group because we were all doing very small things in our eyes in some similar ways, and we joined together about three years ago just to be steadfast to talk about the Lord and business with one another and to be steadfast to believe that we could empower one another.

Laurine Decker:

And I know I have said before that it was not easy for me. Frankly, my receptors were very broken. I was a disciple of Jesus but I was not personally able to enter in with trust into groups of women because my receptors were broken. But being steadfast to show up right where we're at in our marriage or wherever you're at, you know, for Monti and me I still am an avoider at times I shared with Carrie. My receptors in receiving love for Monti are often still a little fuzzy. They need some more cleaning. I like that.

Kari Levang:

I like that.

Laurine Decker:

But as we are steadfast to receive the steadfast love of the Lord and his new mercies, we can grow in the more, and that's why it's such a cool thing. This is probably we have our other women joining us in a couple hours, but it is cool to have markers and to continue in steadfast community with other disciples of Jesus because you can see, you can actually see the more yes, and Carrie and I are experiencing safety and joy with one another that there was no way it would have been possible. It wasn't possible three years ago, no, and increase safety and joy with her husbands. That would not have been possible Now.

Laurine Decker:

The night before I left a couple nights ago, my receptors I turned, those were turned off and I I was very human and I did not want to enter and I was in a little bit of an avoidant place because I think probably had some anxiety about coming down here with all the dynamics. Yeah, and we've had, you know, a lot of disruptions in many ways right now for many of the ones of us who are here and so probably anxiety. But my point is the steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. There is grace in my avoidant behavior if I can remain in the discomfort to receive the peace. Despite the discomfort to know God's not conditional in his steadfastness, I am on an upward trajectory with him. Yeah, right now I am perfect in securing him. You know we're blameless before him, right. But as we continue to show up in steadfastness, receiving his steadfastness, miraculous things happen.

Kari Levang:

Totally. I love what you said about. I love that you shared that, first of all about your receptors being fuzzy and turned off before you left, and I think that is the beauty, because then you also talked about markers a little bit and paying attention, and I think that that that feels like it's consistently ruminating in me because there are moments and times where I'm less or more connected to Mike or to you know a conversation with a friend or neighbor or whatever, where I can feel myself, retreat and hide Right, and I don't know how to say it, except that I the beauty and the wonder is that I can.

Kari Levang:

Even if I'm not good at striving for rest in the moment while that is happening, I can always look back at that time whether it be the next morning or a week later, where the Lord brings it to mind, or whatever. I can always look back and grasp something from that, like what could I have done differently? How could I have invited God in?

Kari Levang:

Because I think, when you were talking about friendship and us not having been there before, I think the difference is not that we weren't both abiding in Christ, but God had for one thing he's always at work in all of us at all times and we're in varying places in our process with him, but I think one of the beautiful things that has happened with us is that we have been more authentic in our time together, in the sense of being honest about where we really are, and we have been so good about like right, like let's just pray, yeah, let's just talk to God about it now.

Laurine Decker:

And also Carrie, I want to say we also, for those of you who are listening have shown up, being willing to be messy and enter into the things of life that may seem non-spiritual, and to trust the process, to be steadfast and say no, we're going to show up authentically, like what Carrie just said, even if it's really uncomfortable and of course, we can't always do it. We have both hidden many times. We have, in fact. I remember the first time that the four of us got together down here. We were missing. There are five of us, we were missing one of us, but the four of us and I remember very clearly a number of us got heightened and triggered and it had to be. We were, I mean, I'm one of them, I did, I got triggered a couple times and that's kind of a buzzword right now and I really don't like it but my emotions, I got flooded, yeah, and guess what?

Kari Levang:

you know well, I was even comfortable, yeah, but I think even then it felt I don't even know how to say it. I think it probably felt messier then. But even as I look back on that, like it's fascinating how our getting triggered looks different, because I am a champion isolator and I'm not. That's not good right, but I can get triggered and isolate and still show up. Yes, so other people don't even know I've been triggered right, what does it look like for you?

Kari Levang:

because I think I can tell now when you kind of get well, I can tell you what it looks like inside of me, but I'd be curious to hear what you think it looks like on the outside. But for so for me, I think I get quieter, uh-huh, and I think I. The danger for me is that when that happens because I isolate and nobody else knows about it always the danger for me when I'm in that place is I become bad. So the messages that I am telling myself are I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not whatever.

Kari Levang:

The enoughs are all the things where I'm, I'm, I'm broken, I'm less than and for some reason, and so that is the beauty of knowing one another is that I think you are getting better about reading me because you've been, we've been around each other in honest community more than we used to be, and so I think the beauty is I I don't have to stay there as long, right, because if you can call me out now, I almost think it's better when somebody I'm thinking about one of us that got really triggered over something very non-spiritual. It was very common, ordinary thing that just happened to hit her wrong that what somebody else had said and she just called it out to that person and said that's not helpful.

Laurine Decker:

I know I was so impressed and I know it wasn't me that that Called the first now, because I was really impressed by.

Kari Levang:

Yeah. I was very impressed because I thought, man, I can really learn from that. Because that I I thought about the person she said it to. I was thinking I hope she's gonna be okay. Like that was pretty strong and she was okay, right, and she was able to draw a line and say what you're doing right now is not helping me, so please don't.

Laurine Decker:

Yeah, it was so grown up, really grown up. You know. It's so interesting too, because I think that when you show up in your steadfast, despite discomfort, despite perceived messiness and I do think I you said something about and we've talked a lot too, so my mind is hopping all over because I'm just thinking about how we were praying that this time that we would be, our messiness would be held On the firm foundation of Christ, I love that, yeah, but because you guys, you know, our perceptions of messiness are not even always accurate either. You know, we have these perceptions about ourselves that are either Based upon our story or based upon the enemy. It says we do not wage war against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, and so we don't know if the darts are coming from the evil one or a flesh.

Laurine Decker:

We don't care exactly looking to Jesus right, and so we are learning to get better at agreeing with him Rather than that story. And so sometimes, if our behavior or our perception Seems to be something that we want to condemn ourselves with, I feel that Carrie and I Are getting quicker at saying that doesn't matter, we can line ourselves back up, we can say no, jesus, I am yoked with you. And I was telling Carrie earlier today I literally will walk around my house and say I'm yoked with Jesus, and I will like march it out, yeah, and say I'm walking with you. You know, because that physical movement and agreement is Powerful, we are yoked with Jesus exactly when we choose it, exactly, have chosen it.

Kari Levang:

It is the truth, whether or not we feel like it well, and I think I love, love, love that you said that, because I think we can tend to he humanity across the board, can tend to Compartmentalize our faith and that is the beauty and the wonder of when Jesus came, he embodied.

Kari Levang:

Yes and so I think we get a little afraid of what when we even use those terms Faith embodied because it sounds a little woo-woo like I don't know. I think some people get really like I don't really like that. That doesn't. That feels Kind of to free sparity, almost right, rather than the sense that Jesus actually and you've talked a lot about this that it's really Made me think about it about Jesus walking Mm-hmm. He was God himself Walking it out in the dirt with others. I came across this quote when we were getting ready to hit record by Brennan Manning and he says when Jesus said, come to me All who labor and are heavy burdened, he assumed that we would grow weary, discouraged and disheartened along the way. So I feel like that kind of goes back to what you were talking about. Like we get this idea of what it we think it's supposed to look like and when we're not one, when we feel like we're falling short, when really actually maybe part of our humanity being together, that's messy. Is it falling short? It's just being a human.

Laurine Decker:

Yes, and it makes me think too, even about Jesus, what he presented, and thinking about him entering into weep presently, and In the garden I've mentioned it before when he was laboring and suffering so much he was weary. He was suffering in that moment and laboring, and to the point of sweating blood. And and Hebrew says you haven't yet suffered To the point of shedding your blood in your struggle against sin. So we are going to be weary, but we can still have that fruit of the spirit. The fruit of the spirit is not peppy energy, right fruit of the spirit is Love and joy and peace, that deep joy that comes from knowing Christ alone. Peace despite the discomfort, peace despite the storm, peace in this dead, fast love and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ because of what he did for us. We are going to feel weary and we can put on those garments of praise for the spirit of heaviness and enter the throne room again for mercy and grace in our Time of need. Yes, and we're, you know boldly with confidence.

Laurine Decker:

We can be steadfast in that. What are we being steadfast toward?

Kari Levang:

Well, and I almost think, even just even hearing you like I kind of closed my eyes for a minute Hearing you talk about the fruit of the spirit, sometimes I think we don't, and I actually talked about this a little bit in my Podcast a few weeks back or a month back or something, with Cheryl Scruggs. We were talking about Living in such a state of hurry, mmm. Our calendars are so full that we find ourselves in a place where we don't even slow down enough To realign and re-centered, say just close our eyes for a moment and say, lord, I am overwhelmed, or I I don't see the fruit in my life, I'm anxious, I'm worried, I'm depressed, I'm, you know, whatever the things are, and not to say that the you know Slap Galatians on you and you're gonna feel better, not a bit, but that we would slow down enough to Re-center ourself and plant ourself, like we talked about, on the firm foundation of God's steadfast love.

Kari Levang:

That doesn't change.

Laurine Decker:

I so agree, and I think that that is where praise comes in again, because, as we take the moment to slow down, it is a realignment and a receiving of the truth of God's steadfast love and mercy. Going back to the throne room Though he is holy, he's worthy to be praised. It doesn't Take going to a worship service, it takes a moment of bowing your heart and making that the first call. And I this is relatively new guys, I mean, I've been a disciple for a long time and I think I've said a couple years ago, carrie knows, the Lord really called me to start bowing and just proclaiming his holiness, whether or not I felt like it and to be honest, at that time I didn't really feel like it it was an act of submission.

Laurine Decker:

I have grown in praise and an awareness of how powerful it is. But I just want to challenge you guys if you add one thing to your daily routine, consider pausing to bow, as you're able, either physically I do child's pose and Go up and down and say holy, I think it's a great core workout, yeah. But and just enter the throne room for a minute and agree with it says that the praise of the Lord goes on eternally Just doing that praise for half a minute, even 30 seconds exactly.

Laurine Decker:

So, going back to what Carrie was saying, yes, it's about a moment of pausing the busyness and Receiving the truth of who God is. Yeah, it is ours.

Kari Levang:

Well, and it's so basic and practical. I like what you said because I even going back to this morning, when we got up, mm-hmm, you had received a text, but you said I received a text this morning that I'm not gonna answer until I've spent some time with the Lord and I was like it's so practical, like it's so Like, consider your life. I think that's the thing that we Me, that I get into these habits and these ways of being that aren't necessary. They're not but inherently bad, right, they're just not necessarily most helpful, mm-hmm. So just take it. I remember when is it where Paul says I Think it's in the message where he says it like this, but he's basically saying take stock of your life, make a careful exploration in the lations.

Kari Levang:

He says make a careful exploration of who you are. Mm-hmm, you. That is so good, because it's so important to look at your own way of being, your own life. When you wake up, right Like, what are your first moments of the day look like, and how would you like those to be different? How could it be helpful for you to add or take away some things? I had a pastor years ago that used to say that he would regularly ask himself the question what stays, what goes and what gets added, and it was such a helpful practice for me. I still use it and that was probably 20 years ago because it's we're constantly changing and our life circumstances are often very different.

Laurine Decker:

So it's important, it's so important and to enter into that, as I know you would agree, carrie, with the spirit, so that we don't become rigid or legalistic, right, because I know I can't remember the reference that says the law kills but the spirit brings life Exactly. So we're not looking to add routines or regulations. We're looking to welcome in the presence of the Lord and to obey as better than sacrifice. It says in the Bible, and it can be really easy when we're looking at what stays. What did you? Can you repeat?

Kari Levang:

that what goes?

Laurine Decker:

and what gets added. What gets added to get off a degree and take our eyes off Jesus and look into problem solving. Whereas I know Carrie would agree, as we do with the spirit we can know what the Lord is asking us to. Let go over what to add. And I've been so tempted, because of my tendencies toward control and all or nothing behavior, I so sometimes want to let something go because I want it to be fixed. Or can't I just do this solution? Can't I just? I don't know you fill in the blank for whatever, it might be easier if you just totally removed it. Yeah.

Kari Levang:

That would feel safer.

Laurine Decker:

And the Lord says to obey is better than sacrifice. Is there a relationship that you're like can't, I just can't, I just cut that off. That's not helping me grow toward you? Well then, perhaps it's a heart surrender thing and we need to be honest and take the assessment. Yeah, what is he asking me to let go of? Today? Today, today, because a lot of the times I hang on to things out of a compulsory love or service and a lot of the times I want to let go of something out of restriction or control, because I want to be a better servant of Christ, right, well, what does that mean when I'm yoked?

Kari Levang:

Yeah, that is so good, Lorraine. Honestly, it's so good because I feel like and we did talk about that specifically yesterday and I think that it's so crazy to me how, as humans, even in the best circumstances, even in my best ways of being my most spirit filled self, I find myself wishing and wanting for God to just give me, just make, give me clear, to show me the lane I'll walk in that lane.

Laurine Decker:

Do you want the easy road? I do.

Kari Levang:

Instead of he's like actually just stay with me, right, I'm the lane? Yes, stay in the lane with me and we'll work it out moment by moment. You'll know. You'll know my spirit will tell you, actually that's not helpful for you. Everything's permissible but not everything's beneficial, rather than it being this, no to that, yes to this. And of course, there are things in the Bible that are very clearly yes and no. But, those things that are more nuanced. Yeah, it's all relationship with.

Laurine Decker:

Jesus. Yes, we're running with Jesus and, like it says in Jude, he's able to keep us from falling. And we fix our eyes on him. And I had this picture. You had said this earlier today when you were praying. I had this picture of us falling into his arms at the end. He's the one whose eyes we want to be looking into and running for, and yet we're surrounded with this great cloud of witnesses. We get to run this race with others, staying in our own lane and eyes fixed on Jesus. We can be steadfast and run the race that's set before us.

Kari Levang:

Yes that is so good and you sort of robbed me a little bit because I was going to say some of that at the end.

Kari Levang:

But no it's absolutely perfect because I was going to end with Proverbs 4.26. That says Give careful thought to the paths for your feet and be steadfast in all your ways. And so, as we are running the race marked out for us just like Lorraine shared, I love Hebrews. That just invites us to enter in with God, whatever season you're in, whatever your life looks like. He already knows it, he already sees it. There's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, he's saying.

Kari Levang:

Would you bring it to me today? Would you be willing to enter in with me in this moment? Would you be willing to entrust yourself to me and enough to be to remain, to sit in this place where I can speak life over you in that circumstance? And so I just want to say thank you so much for joining us today. I love these conversations. It's so I've said this before like I just love when I get to be on here with a guest, because it just feels so enlivening and so reciprocal and it's so fun to hear different perspectives. So, as you go about your day, I pray that you too will enter into this place of rest with Jesus and that you will be steadfast in all your ways, in a fresh way that you will not feel the sense of I've got to do what's right, but actually I need to run to Jesus, because that's where my hope is found.

Laurine Decker:

Amen, carrie, and I want to add my own invitation and prayer, as Carrie and I join with you, with all of our sisters and brothers in Christ, and ask that the Lord Jesus Christ would tenderly minister to each one of us so that we can be steadfast, that we can show up the way he's asking us to show up, not the way he's asking our neighbor to show up or another member of the church body, that we would listen to the voice of our shepherd and steadfastly follow. And that is my prayer today, for myself and for Carrie, for each of you listeners, and I pray that you will go in the peace and love and blessing of the Lord Jesus Christ today Amen sister.