Tiniest of Seeds

Creativity + God: Isaac Peabody Talks About How To “Press Play” and Have More Joy in Creativity

• Laurine Decker & Isaac Peabody • Season 2 • Episode 7

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There is so much more joy and laughter to be had than many of us are experiencing. I want to laugh and love every moment I can in this life.  I want to create as only I am designed to create with the joy and inspiration God has for me through his Spirit. 

Join Isaac Peabody, a christian pop/rap artist, and me for a refreshing conversation that will delight you and give you an appreciation for how you are designed to live this life with creativity and play. Jesus modeled creativity and connection and joy, and we also are created, even commanded to live with joy. We are told we should expect delight! Every situation and circumstance are opportunity for creativity and inspiration to flow because we are created by a God who is endlessly creative and made each one of us to praise him as the unique person we alone can be! We were created to explore and love and laugh and experience deep connection in life with God and others. It's ours in Christ. So, let's say yes.


Laurine:

Welcome today to the tiniest of seeds podcast, and I'm super excited because today I have a young, fresh guest I get tired of hearing myself talk and this is Isaac Peabody, and and he you may or may not know is a Christian pop rap artist and he has been someone that has inspired me and delighted me to watch grow up. And he was kind enough to agree to come on the podcast today to talk about creativity and inspiration, and it has a lot of layers for me, and Isaac is someone who's sort of living out the dream in some ways, but also, I know, because I know a little bit of his backstory not a lot, but enough to know it has not been easy and there's always more and just because he is a full-time music artist right now doesn't mean that there's not a lot of layers behind it. And so, isaac, I was wondering if we could start out by you just briefly giving a little snippet of where people can find you and the kind of work that you do, kind of the creative work that you are currently doing.

Isaac:

Sure, absolutely Well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be here. Yeah, I make music and it's you know all the places you find music Spotify, apple Music, youtube, all those good spots and yeah, I have been doing um music professionally for six years now and full time for two, two and a half, I guess. And um, trying to think what else, uh, yeah, it, like you said, it has been a journey.

Isaac:

I've always wanted to be a musician for my job. I've been inspired by bands and artists my whole life and always thought that would be really cool to do that for my job. I've been inspired by bands and artists my whole life and always thought that would be really cool to do that for my work. So I feel really fortunate. And also, it's a. It's a weird time in music where there's not, there's not as much of like a like middle class for music anymore. It's a lot of like either you're the top 0.2% and you're killing it and everything is great and or looks great, uh, or you're kind of trying to figure out ways to, you know, bring gigs together and make it work. So I feel really fortunate that my wife and I are able to like afford to make it work right now, and uh, and, yeah it's, it's a little bit wild, so I do.

Laurine:

I want to interrupt you and put a little plug in and just tell people that, Isaac, I have witnessed his energy and his enthusiasm and he you can hire him, you can like have him come to your youth group or to a small venue and it's super fun because he does do these bigger gigs and he has opportunity to travel. In fact, I got to see you on the news a while ago in Ohio.

Laurine:

Oh yeah, so he gets to do some bigger gigs and he also is all up for being up close and personal in an intimate setting and he's a lot of fun. So I just want to put in that little plug and you're at, is it Peabod?

Isaac:

Peabod Raps is the Instagram and, yeah, on Spotify and everything, it's just Peabod. But if you're looking for socials or my website, it's Peabod Raps for everything, yeah.

Laurine:

So there you go, everybody. So now you know where to find him, and I wanted to start. So Isaac actually has released quite a bit of music and here, well, for a young person, how old are you, isaac? I'm 30. I'm 30. Okay, so he has a few albums that have been produced, one of which was most recently produced and came out in December, and it's called. Don't tell me, I'm going to remember. It is called play.

Laurine:

Yes, okay so that's actually going to be the springboard, too, for our conversation, because I love the lyrics in your first song, which is press play, and it is about play in some ways, but it also, I feel like, really resonates with me because a lot of my journey I am also a creative person and I had a uh, my first real job was as a wedding photographer.

Isaac:

I remember that story.

Laurine:

So I've always loved creativity. I'm have new found love for worship. In fact, I don't know if you know Isaac, I've been leading worship at new day recently and playing the keyboard.

Laurine:

It's honestly miraculous. Again, I won't digress, but music has been a passion for me, and creativity, but for me, a lot of it. I lost so much of my creativity because I didn't know how to play. And in the song Press Play, you talk about creativity a bit, you talk about Zion, you talk about discovering laughter, and I want to use that as the springboard because I think that we are all uniquely designed and often we forget that we need to be able to sink into the play, if you will, to even have that joy flow.

Isaac:

Right.

Laurine:

And I will have some specific questions, but that's what I want to use as a springboard.

Isaac:

I love that.

Laurine:

And I also wanted to b efore I talk, I wanted to put a little asterisk. I was fascinated, isaac, to learn the first mention of the Holy Spirit was in relation to creativity. And you may or may not know that, but I didn't know that and until recently, B bezalel in the Old Testament, in Exodus, it is the first mention of someone being filled with the Holy Spirit And it was for the purpose of creativity to produce these beautiful things for the temple of the Lord, god, holy Spirit, and it was for the purpose of creativity to produce these beautiful things for the temple of the Lord G od most high, and that is where all of creativity flows from is from the Lord, and so that's kind of what I want to use as a springboard.

Laurine:

So I appreciated you being willing to just jump in without having any questions or prep, because this is all news to Isaac right now, but I wanted to ask if you'd be willing to talk a little bit about those lyrics and that juxtaposition between creativity, motivation, the Holy Spirit's inspiration, how you balance that with play, really.

Isaac:

Absolutely. Yeah, I would love to. Everything you're talking about is like stuff I think about and I'm excited to talk about all the time. Um, I'm just pulling up a psalm here because, uh, you mentioned, uh, this will be kind of my starting place. I guess you just mentioned the line uh, in my song press play.

Isaac:

Uh, on the highway to zion, uh, there's a song that we all know. Oh, yeah, I should know my own lyrics. So the whole lyric is on the highway to Zion there's a song that we all know leading the way to that holy place when we press play, and I pulled that language from Psalm 84. This is a song or a psalm, uh, titled my soul longs for the courts of the Lord. Um, and it's supposed to be I think it's supposed to be just an encouragement for, uh, the people of Israel at that time. Uh, and they're in. So, psalm 84, verses four and five blessed are those who dwell in your house, ever singing your praise. Blessed are those whose strength is in you, in whose heart are the highways of Zion, and it continues as they go through the Valley of Baca, which I'm pretty sure that is like symbolic of suffering. I don't like, I'm not sure if the Valley of Baca was a real place or if it's just, you know, valley of the shadow of death kind of suffering. I don't like. I'm not sure if the Valley of Baca was a real place or if it's just, you know, valley of the shadow of death, kind of stuff. As they go through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs. The early rain also covers it with pools. They go from strength to strength. Each one appears before God in Zion, and so the whole idea of the record, the whole idea of the record.

Isaac:

Obviously I'm taking some liberties with this imagery and but I love the idea of people holding in their heart the highways to Zion and because he made a way for us, we can know him and we can have access to him. And typically we think of that through prayer, which is wonderful. Prayer is very important, but kind of the whole point, the whole thesis of my album play, is that that play is just another realm where we can encounter God and that because he is infinitely creative and because he's a God who saw fit to make things like laughter and um, you know, like his people that he's created are sometimes very silly and uh, you know the, the way we interact with each other is. I don't know so much of God's character. We can fixate on his holiness and his righteousness and how awesome he is, and that's really important, and also there are these gentle, sweet, playful qualities that are a part of his character too, and so I think that, if you zoom it out to kind of play, being synonymous for, like, creativity in general, I really do think that it's a place where we get to interact with God, because it's something that he's been doing since the beginning of time is creating, and so we get to uh.

Isaac:

There's a really awesome uh artist. He's a painter. His name is Makoto Fujimura. I'm probably not quite pronouncing that correctly, but he um, his uh.

Isaac:

He has a book called art and faith, a theology of uh I'm butchering it Art and faith is the book, Um, but he has this, this idea. That is when we create, we are um. That is part of being a co-heir with Christ. Is is creating alongside a creative God, uh, getting to take part in the new creation. What we create in this life is going to have echoes in the new creation in the future, when Jesus comes back and makes everything right. And so I'm going in so many different directions here. But all that to say, I think, yeah, I just want to affirm your statement that creativity is a gift from the Lord and is something that is near and dear to his heart, and so, yeah, there is something spiritual about tapping into it. Even if, in the moment, you feel like I'm just playing music, I'm just taking pictures, I'm just painting, the enjoyment of that and the process of of making something new is is very much after God's own heart.

Laurine:

Yeah, I, I I am fairly new at tapping into the joy of the creativity, Isaac, because I was such a slave to my own performance and perfectionism and it's so fun to see you, younger, living out actually those creative things, even though we know perfection well. We're perfect in Christ right now because he says we are, but perfection in this external realm is impossible to obtain and it's really fun to see you expressing and living out of that creative place at such a young age. It's so exciting to see and I can relate a little bit to what you're saying. But, like I said, it's fairly new because I'm having such a joy in pouring out on the keyboard and I am far from an expert.

Laurine:

I just started learning chords and just started singing again recently, but I can't believe the joy and the play that is pouring out as my identity has been more and more restored and recognizing what God did create me for.

Laurine:

And I think often in our Christianity, or perhaps American culture, we forget that we are all created so differently and a key component of our creation is being able to experience that delight and joy in who God created us to be.

Laurine:

And in your song, press Play, you also talked about comparison and I think that in American culture and in the church it is so easy to compare and to think our gifts should look like someone else's when actually we're designed to pour out and play the way he designed us to. You know, and there have been certain things that have been really fun for me, I've shared with your dad some cause I've got to talk with your dad about his book. He wrote that book perfectly suited about the armor of God and and I don't know how much you and your dad have talked you know it's like we all cross talk about everything but long story short for me, my own battle with anxiety and OCD a large chunk of that has been doing some things that other people might perhaps think are ridiculous. But doing it in the throne room, you know, like literally shaking off the weights that entangle which to someone might. You know, like we're allowed to dance at a concert, but for me to be able to dance and shake off those things in a creative way that maybe somebody else is going to get, you know it looks so different, the play looks so different for each one of us, and you were

Laurine:

talking about Psalm, was it 84?

Laurine:

Yeah, and another Psalm, the one that I was framing I've actually been framing the last couple of weeks with an increased way, so it's kind of cool to be having this conversation with you today is Psalm 126, which talks about the Lord bringing back the captive ones of Zion. I'm sure you will have heard that one, and it says we were like those who dreamed. Our mouths are filled with laughter and our tongues with joyful shouting, and for me, as God keeps unlocking that creative process, I am experiencing more joy. I mean even the joy of being able to talk with you today that, like we're designed for connection, we're designed for joy and as we can flow to that creativity, wow, like somehow we can experience it, and it takes a life of practice and we're still doing it, which I would love to then ask another question how do you, as a creative, as a creative talent and someone who is all in you know you're a man, you're married, you don't have any kids yet, but you do have that dog and yeah, and she's crazy.

Laurine:

She's yeah, she takes up the time of a child. But so how do you stay grounded so that you're not overtaken by the creative process and that pressure, so that you can remain in the play, like do you have? I'd love to hear some of the things that you have learned.

Isaac:

Oh man, yeah,

Laurine:

and, and I and I and I. You may not even be there right now. You may be stuck in more of that performance and striving right now I don't know, but I'd love to hear a little bit about that.

Isaac:

Yeah, it's. Yeah, I wish I had like a really profound, succinct answer for that. But I think that, first of all, I really love what you said about like, um, like God created a lot of us because he like there's beauty in the diversity of each of us being our own person and uh, and having our own relationship with the Lord, and so the idea that we all are going to play and be creative differently is like so good and so uh on the nose, and I think that I think people can get really hung up on especially. Okay, I'll just speak for myself as someone who does creative work for my job. It can be really easy sometimes to like lose sight of the fact that like well, I'm a creative person because God is a creative God and he put these gifts and dreams in my heart, and that is a separate thing from you know Peabod, the business, like you know where I make my money and I'm very grateful that there's crossover and it's really cool. But I think that we can sometimes lose sight of the fact that it's like creativity is valuable just for the sake of being creative, like putting art into the world, singing a song, like the smallest acts of creativity are important for, even if it's just for our own souls, there's deep value in that. I really believe that. But it's super easy to get caught up in thinking that, oh, this creativity only has value if it's commercially successful, if I can sell it, if I have X amount of followers or people paying attention to what I'm doing, and that's just enjoying being creative and and interacting with God in that way. Um, I love getting to pour out into my work from that place. But if, if that gets compromised and and I start to replace it with just how can I save up more money or how can I do things to make this work harder for me, I can get burnt out really quick. So a good example of some practices I'm trying to put into place In the music world.

Isaac:

There's a whole other side of the industry called sync, which is just writing songs that can be synchronized to film and TV commercials. Scott Kropane does this for his work. He's very, very good at it and I've been, I've had some opportunities to take some shots at at commercials and things, and most of them don't land. But it's a lot of commercials and things and most of them don't land. But it's a lot of it didn't, oh, didn't you have? I did have one land, which is, which is cool, but um to, to really make a career out of it, you just have to pitch, and pitch and pitch and um.

Isaac:

So I had spent a couple weeks just like writing just that kind of music that could work for the business side of my, of my, and I had to take a step back this week and go. I need to write something just for me, and so I I took some time to write a little verse in a chorus that didn't feel like, didn't feel like anything I'd written in a long time, um, just me and my guitar, and I don't know if I'll ever release it, I don't know what it's for, uh, but it was just for me on that day just to kind of process and and work some stuff out with God. And I think that I think, returning to this, this will segue me into kind of my other thought about creativity. But returning to creativity and art as like a safe place is in art, as like a safe place, is something that I think is important when there are temptations for it to become something else.

Isaac:

So like when I was growing up in high school, I picked up songwriting at. I was probably 15 when I wrote my first song and they were all terrible at first, but I just really fell in love with the process of creating and of making music and it is just endlessly fascinating to me to have an idea and then like finish the song and be like this didn't used to exist and now it does and it's here. But I mean a lot of my high school experience, like I had friends at church, but most of my time at school was like not super positive, really flaky friends. Just it was very lonely and so I wrote a lot of songs and it was. It was a lot of, I don't know. It was a confusing season and I just always felt safe when I was writing and playing my guitar and so I would do that for hours.

Isaac:

And I think that for a lot of people, creativity pops up sometimes out of a need for something and I think God is really faithful to meet us there.

Isaac:

And again, like you were saying, this looks differently for different people, because not everyone's gonna make music and not everyone's gonna paint and not everyone's going to cook.

Isaac:

But I think that those things where the Lord maybe nudges us and says, hey, I think you know not, I think he he knows, hey, you'd be good at this, you should try this and uh, I think he's just he's faithful to uh, to, to just meet us there and and have it be kind of an intimate thing. So, um, yeah, I think that I guess that's my long rambling answer to that question is keeping creativity as a safe place that, like, first and foremost, is just between you and God, even if it's not songs about him or art that's always like directly about him, but just going like. I know you made this medium and I'm grateful for it and it helps me work through whatever I'm working through and I know that you are a part of that process. Once it starts there, then it can expand in whatever direction he sees fit, but it's not going to be fun or creative anymore if it doesn't get to, first and foremost, be like a safe place to encounter the Lord.

Laurine:

I think that's really true.

Laurine:

And one thing I have observed right now, I think a lot of Christians, or people that call themselves Christians, have lost a lot of joy, and I think that part of the reason for that is we've gotten confused in our culture for a lot of reasons.

Laurine:

Well, humanity has always been humanity from the garden, so it's not like this is anything new, because we know we have an enemy that wants to steal and kill and destroy, and one of the markers of God's children is supposed to be joy and supposed to be joy, and we know that.

Laurine:

And then it's easy to internalize messages from our culture and from modern Christianity, theology, whatever, that puts an obligation or almost adds an anxiety to that expression, to be quote for God or for the right purpose or for, and so then there's this little twist that can take I mean, I know for me, maybe other people will resonate with this, but it can so easily just get me off track where all of a sudden it does become an obligation and it ceases to flow out of a safe space and it begins to just get this little twist of obligation and performance and taskmaster and perfectionism and then all of a sudden, what has become.

Laurine:

What has started as a joy becomes a burden, and that's one thing that I'm learning in my own creative processes, and I don't do it well all the time is when to push stop. You know when to press play and when to push stop, because so easily our own motivation and humanity can start to energize and then it can become a burden. And so I heard you saying about the song that you just came back to like good job, isaac.

Laurine:

You pushed pause, you push stop and you entered back to play to that safe space that is just for you and because you know first and foremost we are. We are really created first and foremost to be present to the Lord, to love him, then to be present to others, and it's near impossible to do Well, it is impossible without the power of the Holy spirit to remain in that space. And I was going to say to everything good and perfect does come from God. So it's awesome Like we get to enjoy all of these mediums, all of this creativity. Whether it's labeled Christian or not, everything good, everything creative flows from God.

Laurine:

And I think sometimes in our Christian culture or we, we forget that and then we start to label things and all of a sudden we are robbed of that joy and that safety of the medium that is providing us. I mean, like even technology. I've been finding a real joy in technology lately because, I quote, hate certain things, but what a joy to be able to be connected to you, a fellow disciple of Christ. We're, you know, miles apart right now. What a joy we can. So, rather than cursing zoom, I'm blood, but I've done a lot of my own cursing of technology to enter the gratitude.

Laurine:

You talked about that at the beginning of the podcast or a little bit, a little bit ago, about gratitude. Like to enter back into the gratitude which then allows us to play, you know yes, yep, that's beautiful.

Isaac:

Yeah, I think, um, I I really struggled with the idea of of gratitude for a while, because I think, especially when you're going through something like the last thing, you want someone to tell you well, just be grateful, just be thankful, and, like the the more I've walked through stuff, it's like man, once you, once you do get to a place where you can view that as less of like a cliche and more of like a um, wow, god really is faithful and this might be really hard, but, like once, once he opens your eyes to start seeing things to be grateful for, it really is a game changer and it does allow us to enter into those places like play a little bit more freely. So, yeah, I feel, I feel, I think that's a really great point that gratitude is closely linked to creativity, because I think and I think that that starts to get into the conversation of creativity being a form of worship and and getting to give things back to God, you know. So yeah, that's beautiful.

Laurine:

I thought again about Psalm 126, where it says those who sow in tears will reap in joy. And you were talking about the Valley of Baca and how the suffering it does somehow produce joy. And James says count it all joy when you experience various trials. Well, I am the first to admit I have not often counted it real joy. And I'm 54 now and we're meant to walk the road. You know we're on the road of sanctification and and I am starting to believe more and more that actually the promises of joy and peace are true. You know, and a lot of it is through my own suffering. It's been, it has been a season of suffering for me. I shared with you earlier a little bit before we started recording. You know there's been a lot of stuff in my life right now that has brought suffering.

Laurine:

My listeners know too, and you probably know, isaac, that Autumn and I were doing breathing him together, and then we had we, we um decided to end the breathing him partnership for a variety of reasons, a lot of which had to do with my own need for more healing, to go deeper and to address things from my own family of origin that we all have stuff, we all have ways that God wants us to go deeper and but some of the ways that I have sowed in tears has resulted in this joy even the creativity to be playing the piano again, which I have not done since I was younger because of my perfectionism. So much shame Wow.

Isaac:

So much shame.

Laurine:

And now I'm actually able to lead worship and know. You know what? I don't have to be perfect. I can be creative I can play the piano and sing.

Isaac:

Yes, oh my gosh yes.

Laurine:

It's such a blessing.

Isaac:

I love that, I love that so much and I, I think, um I'm glad you said that, because this is something I thought earlier that I wanted to mention I feel like there can be, yes, the idea of um, like we were talking about earlier, it's only worth something, it's only valuable if it's the best, like if it's, if it's uh, if everyone else is saying this is good and amazing, or like if you're technically excellent at whatever it is, and that's just not, that's just not accurate and not the heart of God. And it makes me think. You probably remember when I would you know when I first started helping out with worship at New Day, like I, I, I've grown a lot since then.

Laurine:

Right.

Isaac:

And and Derek and some of the other people at at New Day saw that I had like a desire to to do music and to be a part of this, and so they, they took me under their wing and let me try things.

Isaac:

And I know for a fact that there were plenty of Sundays where it was like that kid played more notes on that bass than anyone has ever played in a worship song before and it, you know, just like unnecessary, like. But there had to be space for me to go, like I'm just enjoying this and like I feel so grateful for people who allowed space for me to messily kind of grow in that. And my wife and I have started serving with the youth group at our church and they have a youth worship band and it has been just like it has totally brought me back to being their age and going like, oh man, there's such value. And just being allowed to explore these mediums without fear of criticism, with people who will help you grow. Um cause, there's a difference between wanting to grow in your craft, to enjoy it more, and wanting to grow in your craft because you feel like it's not, you're not worthy of something if it's not at this level.

Isaac:

And um, so yeah, I just think, at the end of the day, like we are all God's children, and so even our most technically excellent artists.

Isaac:

You know, the Bible talks about the angels and the seraphim in heaven praising God like constantly, like without, like never ending.

Isaac:

And I can, in heaven praising God like constantly, like without, like never ending, and I can't help but think that, like you know, even though I'm a professional musician and I, you know, had the record deal and I've done all these things, what I'm doing now it has to pale in comparison to the glory and the worship God is receiving every day in heaven. So, in a sense, we're kind of all in the same boat as his kids getting to play around, and he takes the light in us making songs and or whatever form of creativity. Just like when, you know, when a little kid scribbles a drawing and says like this is us mom, and gives it to you and you put it on your fridge because your kid made it, and it might just be one blue line scribbled across the page, but there's, uh, there's a creativity into it that's raw and pure and that is a gift from that kid to his parents. So, um, anyways, I'm I'm rambling a little bit here, but I I very much uh, I'm in the same boat with everything you're saying.

Laurine:

I love everything you're saying, Isaac, and I can't help but think about how it's so easy as quote adults to lose that sense of play and delight. To lose that sense of play and delight, and I would encourage you listeners to just take a pause and say is there an area that I would like to play? And it looks different for everyone. I'm thinking of my uncle, who loves spreadsheets. He is obsessed.

Isaac:

He's an engineer.

Laurine:

He has spreadsheets about everything and for him that's play and he's actually a really good example. He also plays and plays volleyball and he's a really good example of not having lost that since a play, but boy it sure looks different than what I would consider play, and I'm just feeling really grateful today because maybe some of you listeners can relate.

Laurine:

Obviously, isaac's a man and I'm a woman, but I think for many Christian women or maybe American women, I don't know, and I use the term Christian loosely more like maybe the theological foundational roots of American Christianity. I feel like many women lose their sense of play because we put ourselves in a position of taking care of things for others or rising to a standard of perfectionism that is not ours to own, and we lose that freedom and that space and you've mentioned space a couple of times and to have the safety, to have the space to be a mess, to play, to practice, to know that we can show up and that we can be delighted in Not only by God but by our friends and that's been something fairly new for me is I'm finding this safety in community, actually even in the body of Christ, that I never had. And you mentioned having the safe space at New Day. I've also had a safe space at New Day. I have been allowed to preach, to speak, I have been allowed to be a total mess and I say that mess kindly I have been allowed to show up totally raw and human and to be trusted. Not because I'm trustworthy None of us really are because we're all human, and even Jesus said he didn't trust anybody because he knew it was in a man.

Laurine:

Well, guess what? We're all human. So, hallelujah, he's trustworthy. But to have that safe space and to be able to know and have that creativity, be free to pour out, to be safe with other people. And so again, listeners, if you don't feel safe in community, if you don't feel safe in your body of Christ, I would say you're not designed to feel safe there. You're designed to be safe with the Lord. He's the one that brings us our safety. But press in and know that that is his will. It is his will that we be able to walk and flow in joy and safety with one another. That is the Lord's will for us, because he provides that for us. So I love hearing you ramble, isaac, and I can ramble too, but just the reality of being created to press play.

Isaac:

Yeah, just on that idea of safe communities, I've been thinking a lot about um. There's a story in um, first or second Samuel, I'm not sure which one, but about Elijah and how King Ahab was had killed all the prophets except for him and he was fleeing and hiding in like a cave or something and crying out to the Lord, going like I'm the only one who is still serving you, I'm the only one who's still serving you, I'm the only one who's still trying. Um, uh, the Lord, uh, tells him he's like I will reserve 7,000 prophets in, or, or 11,000 or something. I think it's 7,000 in, uh, in Israel, who have not bent the knee to, to ball or bail, or however you pronounce it. And um, what I love about that is, um, god is continually creating safe places for us to encounter him, and so, um you were talking about, you know, if people listening to this podcast don't feel safe where they are, um, just as someone who has.

Isaac:

Uh, you know, when I was in college, I was a part of a, a community of believers where I didn't feel that same safety, and um, and that was really wounding for a long time and what's I guess what I want to say is. If you're in that space and it feels unsafe, it's really easy to believe that that's it, and that's what Christians are like everywhere, and you know, that's just how the church is. And, on the one hand, we're still. Every Christian is imperfect. Everyone's going to be hurt by a Christian at some point in their life, and that's really messy and complicated, and there's there's so much space for that there. There has to be, and God is too good to let us just keep walking out in that hurt alone. And, like you said, like his intention for us is to be in community with each other, and so the the thing I love about that story with Elijah is like, yes, I'm sure there's relief in the fact that Elijah is going I'm not the only one but it's not because those 7,000 prophets are amazing. It's because God's God says I have, I have saved these for myself for, like, I have reserved these people, and so, like, for Elijah, god knows what we need and he, uh, he wants relationship with us and he wants to take care of us cause he's a good dad. Uh, he wants to give us good things, because he's just a good dad. And so, um, I think uh, I'm belaboring the point here. But if, if anyone is feeling unsafe in their community, they're. The Lord is faithful to lead us to other people and to bring healing and reparation, and sometimes those both don't happen, but he's always creating safe places for people to find him.

Isaac:

So, and the last thing I'll say on kind of out of that topic, I was having a conversation with my buddy, Austin, who he drums for me at a lot of my shows and he handles my booking too can get so caught up in like doing it the right way and like the perfectionism you're talking about and um and going like, well, I, I, I want to make sure I'm being humble because I I'm not like deserving of whatever gifts he gives.

Isaac:

And Austin stopped me and he was like maybe God is like allowing you to do this in the season because he know that he knows that music makes you happy and he's a good dad and he just likes to give you good things. Maybe it's not so much about how much impact you're going to have and you know if you're making all the right choices. Maybe God just knows that Isaac loves making music and so he's going to allow me to make music because that makes me happy, and so I think that that is kind of a nice frame for this whole conversation is a lot of people are hung up on tapping into creativity because they think they're not going to be good enough or because they think it's off the table for them or someone has told them they're not a creative person. And really God gives us this invitation to all forms of creativity because he's a good dad and he wants to get down on the floor and play with us.

Isaac:

And so yeah, those are kind of two separate thoughts, but you see where I'm going with it.

Laurine:

I love both of those and I do think it comes back again to how good he is and how he created us. And I know I referenced earlier. Jesus said the first and greatest commandment is love the Lord God, with all your heart, strength and soul, and love others as yourself. And I think that comes back again to original design and creativity and community.

Laurine:

And I just want to echo what Isaac said. There is safety in space, and I also want to say it's so ironic because New Day has been a very safe place for me, but it has been one of the places that I have felt the least safe, and so for you listeners that may be feeling safe or unsafe in different circumstances I just want to come back again to the feeling of safety is something that God has created for you to have, because he says he doesn't give us a spirit of fear or anxiety, and so if there is a space in your life that you feel that you have to put up a stiff arm to whether it be family of origin or church or people I would encourage you to press instead into I'm not saying minimize your feelings or stuff anything, but press instead into God's promises, which is he has promised that he is your safety, he is your rock.

Laurine:

He is your strong tower and sometimes I think that the harder our flesh or our humanity or our little child, whatever, presses against something, the more healing and safety God has designed for us to have there. And I think that that is played true. Like a New Day, isaac, because I would not be walking. Everything in me is wanted to run away from community at.

Isaac:

New.

Laurine:

Day, and because I have my own church story and I know many people echo it like everybody right now we're recognizing, wow. But I just want to come back again to echo what you're saying is that there is safety and it does flow out of the creativity and delight and the good gifts that our good father has for us today and we can receive it this moment.

Laurine:

And is it that easy? No, but Christ did win it for us on the cross and we're not always going to feel it. I shared with my listeners quite a bit. Some days I don't feel it a bit, but not always going to feel it. You know I've shared. I shared with my listeners quite a bit. Some days I don't feel it a bit, but I'm learning to press in and know he's good despite it. You know. So do you have any closing thoughts? Before we wrap up.

Isaac:

Oh, I'm just, uh, I just think this is such a important conversation. I, yeah, I just I do feel like there is a tendency to, like we were talking about earlier, to not lean into the joy that is on the table. And I, yeah, my, my old pastor, brian McCormick, used to always say don't leave joy on the table. Like I love that lyric too. My old pastor, brian McCormick, used to always say don't leave joy on the table.

Laurine:

I love that lyric too in your song. Going back to your song, you don't want to leave a crumb on the table.

Isaac:

Yes, yeah, there's so much that the Lord offers us in relationship with him, and creativity is a door to so much of that joy. And so I think, yeah, yeah, I just think that it's it's important for people to explore this in their lives because it's worth it, like they're worth it, like, if you're listening to this, you are worth taking the time to like learn something and be creative, even if it's just for you, even if you fumble through it for a long time, like that's how it starts for everybody, and not everyone is a prodigy or whatever, and and that's that's not the point but God, god will meet you there and there's there's more joy to be had.

Laurine:

Amen. Well, thank you so much, isaac. I loved chatting with you and it was a joy, and I loved hearing a little bit about your creative process and I love watching you grow up. It's really fun and I really appreciate it. Thanks a lot for being here.

Isaac:

Oh, thanks, it's been a joy to be here. I appreciate you.

Laurine:

Thank you and I wonder I'm going to close in a little prayer.

Isaac:

Perfect.

Laurine:

And I want to just say Lord, god most high, you are holy. I agree with Isaac. That's your throne room, it's that cherubim and seraphim and all these things we can't even imagine, and yet we get to enter in and be in this world and receive joy. So I pray for Isaac, for me, for the listeners. I pray, lord, for more of that, for more of that delight. You are God who has joy in your presence. Show us how to live there without making it so complicated. I do thank you. Pray for your blessing and your peace and your joy and your love, those things that you have given to us to flow, an increased measure for me, for Isaac and for each one of these listeners. We pray this in Jesus' name, amen, thank you.