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Elite Performance at 45: Inside a 5x Iron Man Athlete's Metrics | Eric Hinman
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In this episode, Dr. Philip Oubre sits down with Eric Hinman, endurance athlete, entrepreneur, and wellness advocate, to break down what it really takes to operate at a high level in your 40s and beyond.
Eric shares how he went from 25% body fat and low energy in his 20s to qualifying for the Ironman World Championships in just four years. He explains how structured training, zone 2 cardio, sleep discipline, contrast therapy, and community have shaped his performance and long-term health.
This isn’t about extremes. It’s about sustainable optimization.
🔗 Eric Hinman
https://www.instagram.com/erichinman
https://www.youtube.com/@ehinman
🔗 Dr. Philip Oubre
https://www.instagram.com/oubremedical/
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I think many of us walk around at 60%, and we have no idea what 80% feels like, what 90% feels like, what 95% feels like. And as you start stripping away a lot of these things, like having ice cream every night or going out and drinking and getting poor sleep, like again, just like focus on one, get that on autopilot, move on to the next. But as you implement more of these wellness practices and take out the things that are degrading your well-being, you'll start to recognize, oh wow, this feels really cool to be at 83% instead of 63%. With the. Help! Today's guest is Eric Hinman, entrepreneur, endurance athlete and one of the most recognizable voices in the longevity and performance space. Eric is known for pushing the boundaries of human potential through bio optimization, functional nutrition, and data driven wellness. What makes his perspective so compelling is that he doesn't just talk about health. He lives it, tests it, and evolves it in real time. Today, we're diving into what it really takes to perform at a high level while building long term health. Okay, so I'm excited about this, Eric, because, as doctors, we're always talking about disease and problems and labs and all that. But now we have a wellness biohacker. I'm not sure what you want to call yourself, but, you're living optimally. And I think there's a lot of people out there like you that feel good and aren't worried about disease and things, but they want to be optimal, too. So why don't you give us a bit of your story on on how you got here and what was your journey like? Sure. Yeah. So 45 year old fitness addict is what I call him. I like that in my late 20s, I was pretty out of shape. Yeah. What does out of shape mean to you? Because I've been looking at you, and I can't really imagine you being out of shape. 25% body fat. I weight 205 right now. I weigh 180 right now. Okay, 5% body fat. Okay. You know, I wasn't massively overweight, right? Not in the shape that I'm in now. Right. And it was a consequence of partying like a rock star, I guess, you know, sitting a lot. Yeah. My first career was in property and casualty insurance, and I was driving 50,000 miles a year. And I had no education around healthy eating, so I was having McDonald's for breakfast. Subway, which I thought was my healthiest option. Yeah. And then as much pasta as I could possibly eat. Yeah, I was working out, but not like I work out now three days a week. I was doing bench press, bicep curls, very vanity base. All the ladies. Yeah. The the muscles for the ladies. Girls for the girls. Right. And, I found myself out of shape in my 20s, and I just didn't feel good. I was lethargic in the afternoons, and my mental clarity wasn't what it once was. So how did you figure that out? I talked to patients all the time, and I asked them about brain fog, and then they have to stop and think about it. So many people don't. It's such a gradual slope to this not feeling well. So what was your kind of thing that helped you notice, like help wake other people up that are suffering and don't know it? It was high intensity exercise. I remember my first few sessions with my personal trainer. They were horrible, but afterwards I just felt like I was on, you know, a drug. Okay, I had so much mental clarity and energy the rest of the day from those really intense workouts, and we're talking like 90s max effort on a rower sprints and you're on your back after the painful stuff. No one wants to do it, but we know we all need to. Yeah. Type two phone I call it. Yeah. Where in the moment it might not be all that enjoyable, but you feel great afterwards. And so type two fun. That's good. I never correlated exercise with mental clarity energy, emotional well-being. I always thought it was to either look a certain way or for performance in sport. Right. So that was a massive unlock for me. And then I got into endurance sports, specifically triathlon. Half Iron Man's full Ironman. And that was a whole nother level of mental clarity. And like time alone, I had never spent that much time alone with my heart rate elevated. And, you know, I really feel like that was my four year psychedelic journey. Yeah, just using endurance exercise, fuel, like, okay, this is how I want to design my life. I really feel good when I'm out here running in nature and biking in nature and progressing in sport. How can I do more of this and less of the, you know, what the public perception tells you to do? I've worked from 9 to 5 and, you know, party on the weekends, party late at night. I don't sleep well. So I just built my life around wellness protocols, and it changed my life for the better. Right. Because there's a there's a big emotional mental journey that happens on those long interns. I've done triathlons, not full Iron Man, but there's a there's a lot to process in those moments where you're hours on a bike or hours on a run on in pain, basically. And, and your mind wanders away from the pain, but sometimes to other pains and things, so it can be therapeutic. So was that something you had to work through in your journey of, of past traumas or childhood or whatnot that came out on the race course and whatnot? Yeah, I think it was more of, going through the motions now, and I need to stop going through the motions and be more intentional with my days and how I wanted to design my life. That was the big unlock for me. It wasn't, you know, like had a great childhood and, you know, from the outside looking in, I had a great life. I had a really good career. I had the nice cars, the nice condo and successful business, but I just didn't feel fulfilled and I wasn't passionate. When I woke up in the morning and triathlon gave me that, or I woke up in the morning, I had massive purpose and I enjoyed the progression with it. Just like I enjoy the progression in business. Like every day I have this plan to execute on. That's going to get me a little closer to my goal. And that first goal was just a sprint distance triathlon. Then it was a half Ironman, but it was a full Ironman that it was getting to the World Championships. You keep moving the goalposts, you know, so got all the way to the World Championships. That's crazy. So okay, so you said, overweight in your 20s and now in your 40s. You said, but what was that? So you said high intensity exercise. That was the window into triathlons. It was. So I hired a personal trainer in my late 20s to get back into shape, because I didn't have the knowledge I needed the structure. And you. I needed the accountability. So. And the form. Right? Yep. In form, I committed to, six month training
program five days per week, 6:30 a.m. it started with 30 minute training sessions, and gradually I built it to one hour training sessions. But I mean, those first few weeks were horrible. I was sore in every workout. Like, I'm like, I don't want to go back the next day to write that right then, in a weird way, you start to crave it, right? I started to crave it, and then a CrossFit gym opened in my neighborhood, and I had been doing CrossFit type workouts without knowing what CrossFit was. Then I joined the CrossFit gym and got exposed to CrossFit early on, and that was a whole nother extreme of wow, now I get to compete against others and do all of these workouts for time, and now I'm tracking everything. And then I got into triathlon. I hired a coach, and through my coach I learned purposeful training, not just exercising to right. It was purposeful training and specifically zone two heart rate training. I did a lot of slower, running, biking to build durability and to build the road. The capacity. And, you know, that ultimately got me very fast in triathlon. And that was a really interesting lesson of I want to speed up. I wanted to hang on that, too, because we preach it all the time in our practice. And when we tell people zone two and they're like, wait a minute, I think I know what zone two is. And that sounds like nothing but no zone two is is suffering. It's suffering too, but it's a different suffering, right? So if you can do it for a long amount of time, Ryan, you know, I went from doing 30 minute, 45 minute runs, a very high heart rate to doing two hour sessions. You know, at a 130 heart rate. And, you know, when I first started doing it, it didn't feel like I was getting benefit because I wasn't going harder than I went the day before. But you can stack volume day in and day out. And after six months, I started to notice the benefits. And then four years later, I massively noticed the benefits. I went from running about an 830 per mile pace at a 140 heart rate, to running a 630 per mile pace at a 129 heart rate. Oh holy cow, three little speed work. It was just from volume and that crazy. I think people need to hear that, especially in America where we're impulse buyers, where need it now people. And to to hear that slow down to speed up. I have never heard that that that that makes sense and it's catchy. But yeah spending that time ad zone to to get there. Okay. What other pearls in the exercise world have you learned? I'm sure nutrition is, of course, a piece of that pie that people need to hear, because that's another problem I have in America is we're all exercise to lose weight, exercise to lose weight, exercise to lose weight. And then you go and start exercising and you get hungry, and then you eat your Oreos and your pasta and all that. So yeah, give us some tips on diets. Huge. I think the biggest key, though is mastering one at a time. Yeah, green tackling all of them at the same time. New year's resolution type. Yeah I tackled one at a time. You know, I dialed in the exercise. I had my personal trainer that's on autopilot. Okay, let's move on to the next thing. I moved on to diet, you know, tinkered with different diets over a one year period. Found one that worked for me, stuck to it. That's habit that I started tinkering with. Sleep, you know, various sleep supplements, different temperatures of my bedroom, different sleep masks and earplugs. Okay. Sleep style. Then I'm going to move on to recovery. So each one was a different chapter that I focused on until it became habitual. And then I moved on to the next one. So I think that's the appropriate way to do it. So that you don't overwhelm yourself. Diet is pretty simple. Eat single ingredient foods that you can find in nature closer to the source, the better. It's so easy to say restore. And you know, I'm not perfect. I mean, do I have ice cream? Do I have processed foods? Of course. But yeah, 80% of the time I'm eating very similar foods at very similar times each day that I look forward to. I think that's also the key is find something that you look forward to. So I'm eating meats and fish and vegetables and fruit and honey and, nuts and seeds and eggs and dairy and yogurt. That's the bulk of my diet. And yeah, I'll have bars here and there. And when I'm racing, that goes out the window. All right. But, you know, that's fueling an eight hour Leadville race for me. And I need that stuff to fuel that performance. But on a regular basis, I'm eating, you know, single ingredient food source from nature for the most part. And then sleep. So important. I try to get at least eight hours of sleep every single night. I go to bed around the same time each night. I wake up around the same time each morning, and I think the key for sleep is sticking to a similar structure. That's probably the biggest thing. And then avoiding highly stimulating environments late at night. So many of us are fun is had in the evenings and it compromises our sleep. And then, you know, we don't function well the next day. Surprise!
Yeah, my 6:30 a.m. is so important to me because I want to get a good workout. I want to go for a bike ride or go for a run. And I love my days. So I've built my life around my days. So I'm winding down in the evenings and I'm not doing the late night party culture. Yeah, and the iPhones and the TVs and all that jazz, too, right before bed. That, I mean, I'm still on my phone. Obviously, you shouldn't be. I do wear the glasses. The blue light blocking glasses. But, yeah, the big, big key is I've noticed if I go to a concert, if I'm out at a bar, if I'm entertaining a bunch of people late at night, I don't sleep well. Right? My cortisol spiked. Yeah. I'm not. And, you know, rest and digest mode to fall asleep. But as long as you get back on it, then the pattern's not as disrupted. Right? But sleep is a huge pattern thing. Sleep is one of the few things that's a totally unconscious decision. You can't just say, I want to be asleep by 9 p.m.. Your body chooses that. Your mind chooses that. So you have to prepare the environment for sleep and that pattern. And anyone that's raised kids knows that the sleep is such a pattern. New parents, when they're first, when they have their first kid, they don't think, oh, the kid just naps on it and apps and oh, bedtime doesn't really matter. They'll just sleep. And no, kids don't sleep and they have a pattern and they will wake up where we were those kids one day. We need that same pattern, and if we don't structure our evenings around that, then it's disrupted. But I think so many people, and that's why I ask you one of the first questions like, well, how did you notice that that brain fog, that fatigue that was slipping because so many people don't recognize that until their 40s and 50s, or even worse, they didn't recognize it. They're having that heart attack with that stroke thing. Oh yeah, I guess I guess I haven't felt well for that long. I know I'm supposed to exercise, but it's not important to me. And nutrition is not important to me. Yeah, I think many of us walk around at 60%, and we have no idea what 80% feels like, what 90% feels like, what 95% feels like. And as you start stripping away a lot of these things, like having ice cream every night or going out and drinking and getting poor sleep, like again, just like focus on one, get that on autopilot, move on to the next. But as you implement more of these wellness practices and take out the things that are degrading your well-being, you'll start to recognize, oh wow, this feels really cool to be at 83% instead of 63%. You said a good word earlier. Crave. A patient of mine. I can't take credit for this. A patient of mine said the body craves with the body eats. And first, when they said I was like, that sounds completely crazy, but it does. As you do the good things, you start craving the good things. And so I think that's one of the problem with this world right now with with ice cream and Netflix and all of that is that's what you're doing. So that's what the body's craving. And it takes mental effort to get out of that. But to your point, a second ago, if you make one change at a time, that becomes a craving, one changes and that becomes a craving. And I think too many people are this New Year's resolution, oh, I'm going to do everything. I'm going to quit drinking Dry January. I'm going to eat perfectly. I'm going to exercise every day. And then it just breaks. Yeah, yeah, it just breaks dopamine. I think that's the earned dopamine. I like that one's. It's like a lot of things you can do to get easy dopamine. Yeah. But like earned dopamine is where it's at. You know I like that. Feel good. Afterwards I get that dopamine hit but I don't have consequences from it. Yeah. So many people lack just the, the, the discipline to keep doing these things over and over. Okay. So on that same note, what people watching, we've got doctors watching. We've got patients watching. And so you've said that so many people are operating at this 60%. I'm going to assume that you feel better in your 40s than you did in your 20s. I do, yeah, I feel much better in my 40s than I did in my 20s. I feel better in my 40s than I did in my 30s as well. And some would argue I was in the best shape of my life in my 30s, because I was competing at the World Championships in Iron Man, but you couldn't take it to the extreme right to where it's overtraining. And I got to that point where it sunk my testosterone. My cortisol was high and I had taken it too far, and now I've dialed it back to something that I can sustain day in and day out. I do more strength training now, more high intensity cardio than I was during that Ironman time period, and less endurance volume. And I feel better doing that. I'm able to sleep better and I don't feel as beat up. I do, sauna and cold exposure every single night called contrast therapy. Yeah. So let's let's talk about some of your, your overall routines that have kind of set in right now. I like that idea that you pointed that out, and I wanted to hit that before we switch. Is that the extremes? Anyone can do the extremes both extreme laziness and extreme exercise. And that's not the greatest for the body. And some people need to hear that those Type-A CEOs that work hard, hard, hard and exercise hard, hard, hard, that's great and all, but that's not the idea of longevity. You can do that to accomplish something, but don't stay there. So it's kind of that, you're not lazy. You're not extreme. You want that in between? That's the sweet spot. So now you've got this, this in-between sweet spot and not competing. I'm still competing in sport, and I'll put my hand in the fire. Haha, I like that. Okay, okay. You know, like extreme and then back that's, you know, got this sprint building the company, right. You know, I still put my hand in the fire, but I know when enough is enough and I need to pull my hand back out. So good each year the mountain bike race. Yeah. So where's Leadville? Leadville is in Colorado. Okay. Mountain bike race. In a run that takes place in the highest city in the US. It's really. Oh. That hurts. I can barely go to Silverthorne and sleep. Yup, yup. Ten and two is what the race starts at. And now you live in Austin now, but spends enough time in Denver. Okay. And that's 6000ft. Okay, so do you do acclimation before you. Okay. What's that look like? I train in Leadville 1 to 2 days per week for three months leading up to that race, and it helps tremendously. My power output is still affected by the elevation. It has to be our exact oxygen in the air. But I'm able to, you know, I'm not going to get sick. I'm not going to have any of the effects of elevation that could drastically alter my race. I had a mountain biking guy that did get sick. It was a poem or some abbreviation for the oxygen that he got it, and he was like coughing blood and all kinds stuff. It was spooky. It's from. Yeah, just like breathing heavy at that elevation for a long period of time. Have you ever had it happen? Okay, okay. So Leadville is your that's your every year. That's your bread and butter that that's an obstacle that I like having in my calendar that I have to train to overcome. Okay. And it's mountain bike and run but I assume bike first then run. Yes. I have not done the run yet. I'm planning to do the run. Oh, I thought it was like a duathlon of some sort. Okay, so there is, okay. Mile mountain bike race and then the 100 mile mountain run. Oh. Geez. Okay. That's not on my list. As long as I've done a road bike is 56 or a half iron and I don't know how anybody can do 56. Even on a mountain bike. It's so much longer on a mountain bike than just cruising on a road. Yeah. Going fast there would be averaging like 12mph. And you know, doing it. Yeah. Averaging, you know, 16 to 25mph. Yeah. One of my Galveston ones, half Ironman, was directly in the headwind at 12 miles an hour. And it hurts to see. Yes. To pedal that hard to only go 12. That's very mentally defeating okay. So mountain biking so what we kind of got to your routine and then got off. So I did want to come back to that whole routine. But I want you to elaborate more because remember you do this every day. But people listening, they may not have ever even sauna and and whatnot. So let's talk about their routine and let's talk about the specifics of each of those routines. So I've heard you say sauna multiple times. So that's a key piece. So what is sauna mean to Eric? I'm kind of scared to ask. So contrast therapy is what I do, which is going from a hot sauna. We run our sauna at about 195 Fahrenheit. Whoo! For anyone that doesn't know what 95 is, it's Tennessee. This is dry sauna. It is a traditional dry sauna. We're putting water on the rocks. Okay. And then I have a cold plunge. Now hold on. You're still going too fast for me. I I'm curious in that. So that means other people are cares. So I know very little of this, but I know there's some sort of metric where you take the temperature and add the humidity or something like that. And that's one of the ways they gauge sauna is don't do you do that. Adding water onto the rocks. Right. Massively increasing the humidity hurts it. Right. Oh it hurts I've only done this once. It hurts. It stings your skin. And you know, you'll just feel that heat. Yeah, but that's actually the humidity. I don't know that it tremendously raises the heat in the sauna. What do you do that raises the humidity? So you start sweating profusely, right. Do you have a goal humidity number. You shoot for just temperature. 20% is what we'll get it up to in there. Temperature is more of what I'm concerned with. Actually. Just had a Finnish woman in a sauna. Oh, the Finnish people know how to sauna. That's danger. Is putting water on the rocks every day. She you. It's it's so okay. She told me a bit about their culture in Finland. Yeah, she lives in an apartment building. And she said every person in the apartment building has their own sauna. And then they also have a community apartment. Sauna? No way. That is, there is a sauna for every two people in Finland. So there's three really. In Finland, there's a million and a half sauna. That is crazy. Now that's one of the unfortunate parts of sauna research is that whenever they research sauna, it's always a Finnish people and no one can keep up with them so that people will quote sauna research and all that. But you really got to keep that in mind that these people grew up with this. And so yeah, they don't do it for the physical benefits. They do it. That's where they have important conversations, discuss political matters, you know, family time. So it's is more of a relationship thing for them. And I wanted to go back to that. And we got so much to talk about here because you said community before the podcast and community is such a huge part of our world. And unfortunately, I find one of the things that's happened in this world right now is with Facebook and Instagram and all of that. People have this sense of a digital community, but a digital community will never feed the fire of our in person community. And so I think we're unfortunately getting further and further from community, even though we're more connected than ever, were more disconnected than ever. So you said that was important to you as a fitness community. And unfortunately, they've done the studies are there. You can't say it's not. If your friends are obese, you are more likely to be obese. So getting that community of people that are healthy and maybe even breaking up with some friends, if you feel like you want to be healthy and you're tired of doing these things, if your friends are going to the bar and you don't want to anymore, you need new friends, right? In order to get out of that situation, it's only a matter of time before you end up back. So I want it. Hey, we're not done with your routine, but routine or community, are they? Are they integrated? There's a question. And how did you integrate them? Yeah, I think community is the most overlooked form of wellness. Just having both chips with people and, you know, online is a pipeline for it. You know? Yeah, a lot of people online. Yeah. Have the initial conversation there. And then I invite them over to come and sauna with me and listen to a conversation. Let's sweat together. Together in a place so we can't have our phones out today. Yep. You know, the sauna has this magical way of making you vulnerable really quick. Really? Because your endorphins are racing. Because you're in this fight or flight, you know, response. Right. So for me, I use sauna as a community building tool that if someone messages me on social media and, you know, expresses interest in meeting me, I say, come out over and sauna at five people coming over most nights at 5 p.m. I'm going to do it anyways. I'd rather do it with people and have a really good conversation. So I've done that for years. Now we're at this fantastic over to Sauna, and I've met thousands of people and had thousands of conversations in the sauna. And for me now, sauna. The importance of it is just as much community as it is the physical benefits of the heat. Yeah, I love that. What's your time duration like in the sauna? Because I imagine you can't do an hour at 190. That would it? I'm usually in there about 15 to 20 minutes, that 190 temperature. And then I'm in my cold tub for about three minutes, 45 degrees. And I do 2 to 3 rounds. I used to be more meticulous with this of, like, timing it and all of that. Now it's more based around the other people who are with me and doing it based on feeling and, you know, I'm ultimately a feeling based person. Like a of course I've read the research on it, but if I feel good doing it and I don't feel like there's any consequences to doing it, then I'm going to continue doing it. And that's what sauna and cold exposure has been for me. Yeah. And there's a there's an element of pain and suffering that goes along with it. So feeling good meaning feeling good afterwards and whatnot or meaning like, oh, this is this feels good in the moment. I assume you're not masochistic. Good in the moment. Okay. Yeah, it's a bit uncomfortable and the cold doesn't really ever feel good in the moment, but yeah. Right right, right. Massive spike of of dopamine from it. Right. So now I think is a perfect time to talk about you did your vibrant test recently and they had to double check your results because it was unusually good. Yeah. Yeah. And heavy metals were almost non-existent. And I think it's because I sweat so much. Yeah. So on on, you know, doing workouts every single day. So that was really cool. That's actually good to hear because in the sauna world and I haven't looked at the research lately. So I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but saunas often promote how good they are removing heavy metals, but unfortunately what they've tested is not nearly as much as they lead on to believe when they're trying to sell you the saunas. I think they've only studied things like cadmium and lead. Not as much as you would think. It makes sense that you would eliminate heavy metals with sweating. But that's good to hear that someone who is as religious as sauna is really low in those things. So how long have you been doing the saunas is a new thing. Is it's been since the 20s. What's what's your. So I started doing it in my late 20s, early 30s when I was competing in Kona, which is the Ironman World Championships, and it was infrared sauna back then, and I was doing it specifically for heat adaption training for the hot and humid climate, just. But during that time period, that's when I recognized I just thought loose and limber afterwards. Even after a big running or biking day, and my mood was elevated after doing it. And then when I moved to Colorado in 2017, that's when I was introduced to cold exposure and contrast therapy. And, you know, traditional saunas and very hot saunas and I'm kind of scared to ask, what is very hot sauna mean to you? Oh my gosh. Then jumping in streams in Colorado in the wintertime and, you know, staying in the stream for most of the time I'm only in the stream for 1 or 2 minutes, but I think the max I ever got up to was about 20 minutes in a frozen lake. Oh, a minute, but yeah, because there's an element of like, is this dangerous? Yeah, yeah. Forever to warm up after doing that. Yeah. At some point you do cook a human. So to 20 sounds too hot. And at some point you do turn frozen. So, the Wim Hof doesn't, I don't know, off to the extreme. I think with a lot of these things, it's fun to, like, figure out what the ceiling is. Sometimes I put my head through the ceiling and then I'm like, all right, all right. That was too much. I like that you put your hand in the fire, like, okay, let's at least test this and say, I've done it. But, I think I think my ceiling is a lot lower than your ceiling mark. And you mentioned friend group. I mean, yeah, important component of your ceiling. Yeah. No doubt most of my friends have done Leadville and they're very, very successful businesses and they've just massively raised my idea of what is possible because of who I hang out with. Yeah. So let's talk about that. You said you had started businesses in your 20s or whatnot. So how does business work into all of this exercise longevity, all that. Because I think one of the Brian Johnson, of course, being that popular longevity guy, that's good and all, but I feel like he spent so much time on his anti-aging that I don't know how he lives. So how do you balance living work, working out all of that? Sure. Yeah. I mean, he's on a different path than me. He's very much about longevity. And not that I don't want to live a long time and mountain bike in my 70s and 80s, but I'm not thinking about that every day. Right? I'm more of a performance athlete, and I wanna perform at a high level. He would say. What I do is probably massively overtraining. I do as much. And, you know, I probably agree with him. But I also want to enjoy my life. Right. You know, I would say, hey. Right. Enjoying your life? Do you have quality? If I ever sit down with him, that's my question is, are you enjoying this? And he's got to at some point, right. You know, he's obviously he has purpose with what he's doing and he's trying to advance humanity to make people live longer. Gosh, community purpose and craving. Those are my my words so far that I'm hearing. That's that's important. Okay. So business for me, I was very fortunate that when I graduated from college, my father gave me an opportunity to build an insurance business, okay, property and casualty insurance, residual income. I spent seven years again driving 50,000 miles a year. Okay, great book of business that paved the way to being able to take risks. My first risk after the insurance business. And I still own the insurance business, which many people don't know. Yeah, my dad now runs that business. Okay. I got into software building, mobile applications. I hired a team of engineers and partnered with, savvy college kids who were, yeah, good at user interface design and building mobile websites and building apps for the iPhone. This was 2010. I did that for four years. And then I opened a gym in 2013, in upstate New York with some business partners, and then opening. Wait, whoa, whoa, you haven't mentioned New York at all. Okay. So, okay, I was thinking Denver because that's where you live in Syracuse, New York. Okay. New York, really small town. Okay. Moved to Colorado in 2017. Okay. Where like this current chapter I'm living started. Okay. Working with brands, creating content for them, helping build ambassador programs, investing in early stage wellness brands, putting on wellness events. All of that started in 2017. So that's the business side of what I do now. Okay, I'm constantly creating content. I'm introducing brands to other ambassadors for them to work with. I'm investing in brands, okay. And I have a couple organizations that put on events, one called Founder's Only, that puts on wellness events for entrepreneurs, creators and investors. Do four of those in year. Okay. This year I'm rolling out an event called The World's Toughest Mile, which is on a track one lap of people jumps. I don't even know what that is a burpee, broad jump, burpee and then jump forward. Do a burpee, jump. Oh my goodness. Hahaha. Lunge bodyweight lunge a lap on the track and then crawl a lap on the track. Okay lap. So okay, the official event series this year. Okay, that sounds very painful. Community purpose. Yeah yeah yeah. Bonds I formed during my Ironman years with other people that were competing in Ironman. It. You know, that is probably my favorite part about triathlons is that whenever you do a triathlon and I've done, half marathons, I've never done a bike race, but I've heard that bike racing in general, cycling in general, not mountain biking. Cycling in general is a real uppity crowd that really isn't about community. You're either in or you're out. But in a triathlon, everyone is your friend, even your friend. Everyone's your competition. Which is weird, but everyone's like cheering you on other racers and things. I'm sure not at the world championship level. You're not cheering on your competition, but it's a different dynamic at the World Championships. I think that's the case because I want to say in an Ironman, like half of the people doing that, it's their first Ironman. Yeah. It's amazing. And last summer's and yeah. So, you know, I think that, you know, they're all cheering for each other because everyone had a different path to get there. Right? There's this mutual respect that no one got there by chance. You had to put a lot of work in, right, to overcome that obstacle that day. So I think, you know, that earned respect of knowing everyone, put in a lot of work to be on that starting line to do that that day. You know, everyone is cheering for each other because of that. And also kind of knowing that everyone's kind of suffering at the same level. You might be going 30 miles an hour on your bike. I might be going 12 miles an hour, but I promise you, I'm suffering as much as you heart got to deal. So that's that's very leveling and humbling. Okay. So we we got off the routine. So you talked about sauna? Clearly a big part of your life. What else is part of your wellness routine? That's that's in stone. Yep. So exercise. I'm pretty much always hitting a morning workout. You know, I'll rest every couple weeks. I'll take a full rest day when my body is feeling beat up. I don't have them scheduled, but it is important, especially competing at a high level. You want to make sure that you can rest so that you can hit a workout on a key day hard enough to get the benefit from it. I think Type-A people can struggle with that because it, but if you don't, you get injured, right? So you learn that lesson eventually. Yeah. And, you know, when you're competing at a high level in anything, you're just constantly riding that line of peak fitness and injury. Yeah, just below it. But oftentimes you go above it and that's when you get injured speaking a head through the ceiling. Exactly. So the ceiling moment right there like whoops. Yep. So morning workout on most days I'm hitting a morning workout. I try to do my harder workout first. So this morning for example I did a pretty hard high rocks workout. What's, Hi, rocks. I rocks is a fairly new sport that was originated in Germany. And those Germans, what are they up to? So the two guys, they came from the Iron Man world, and they crafted this race for the hybrid athlete. Someone who enjoys running, but also lifting. Okay, but can run fast. I'm scared. Yeah. The race is 8000m of running, which is five miles to 1000 meter intervals. They do this in a convention center of like a hotel. Okay. And then the infield is workout stations, and then you run, then do a workout station run, do a workout station, the workout stations, and then there's vomit stations in between. The workout stations are a 1000 meter ski, heavy sled push, 50 meter sled push, 50 meter sled pole, 80m of burpee jumps, 1000 meter row. Heavy farmers carry a heavy sandbag lunge and then 100 wall balls to end that. So in between each of those okay, I don't think I understand most of the wobble wobble that's in the sport kids play. Yeah, it's a CrossFit movement. It's where, for men, it's a 20 pound ball and you're throwing a ball up to a ten foot target. Okay, I've seen that. Okay, that sounds painful. So it's a really fun sport. It's about 60 to 90 minute time domain. So, you know, it's long enough that you feel like you check the box. If I did something long and hard today, but short enough that it's not daunting like an Ironman. So it's really attracted a lot of people. They're getting up upwards of 15,000 people to compete at these on a weekend in the U.S and overseas. They'll get 30, 40,000 people over like a she's, you know, every day is another wave of people going through it. Geez. Okay. So that was this morning's workout. Yeah. This morning's workout. That was the hard one, which meant there was another one of those movements. So it's about a 50 minute workout at like zone for intensity, which for me is about a 150 heart rate. Just sustaining that. My max heart rate now is about 165. So it's going up. It's not going up like oh okay. Going down as I get older. Darn that math calculation being right. I've got to. It's going up over time. What? I'm curious what you're visiting 68. My goodness. What's your peak VO2 do you know, is that the peak 68. Oh, okay. Okay, okay. Impressive. I that's what it's all about VO2 max mitochondrial measurement. Right. What are you using to measure your VO2? I did it in a lab, you know. Oh, the formal format. Did you look at your Apple health and see if it correlate at all? Because I know aura gives you a VO2 and it does. It says there. So oh that's impressive. Especially for something that you didn't have to go to a lab and wear a mask and max out. And I've found it's much more accurate if I'm running and biking a lot, if I'm doing more CrossFit and I'm still very fit when I'm doing CrossFit. But I can biking or running as much, my VO2 max is not as accurate then. Like when I was doing my CrossFit two years ago, I was very fit, but I think it said my future Max was like 52. And then as I've ramped up my running and biking for the race as I'm doing now, it's gotten more accurate. So I think it's heavily skewed based on, you know, running and biking. That's where they're able to correlate impressive. Well, just the fact that we can get a VO2 max at all right now from a device. So that goes back to one of the things I was mentioning before our podcast was we have patients all the time that they don't really care about their metrics, they don't really want to really do anything with their metrics. But we as physicians need to know, like, where are you at? Because, people will tell us like, oh, yeah, I exercise all the time and oh yeah, I'm doing high intensity all that and we pull up their VO2 is like, are you though, like, what does high intensity mean to you? Because a lot of times the answer that really sinks into to the patient without shaming them necessarily is to tell them, like, okay, I'm glad you're doing high intensity, but per your metric, you're not doing enough. So high intensity to you is not what your body needs. It needs even more, or your nutrition is good. But for your body, it's too much. Your glucose is spiking. So I know you don't think that's too much sugar, but your body's telling you too much sugar. So what are some of the metrics you lean on? Obviously, heart rate is a big one. What are some of the metrics you nerd out over regularly? Yeah, for me, I'm addicted to the training. Yeah, I'm more in the boat of what can I do to not overtrain right. So I'm looking at resting heart rate. When I wake up in the morning, I'm looking at heart rate variability. Yeah I'm looking at quality of sleep. So some telltale signs for me are if my heart rate variability is really low. So let's say between 10 and 40. That means my nervous system is not very prepared. Is telling you slow. What's your usual heart rate variability. 60 to 100. Okay. You know I'm resilient. I'm ready to take on stress. Yep. Again, like, if you're not training much, then your heart rate variability is generally going to be higher. Yeah. So you're able to take on stress training a lot. Then you're often going to push lower scores because you know you've you've taxed your nervous system. And then resting heart rate. For me it's 37 when you're in 37. Geez. On a bad day, let's say that I trained really hard or did a five hour bike ride the next day could be as high as 49 or 50. So that's when I know that my nervous system is not prepared to take on stress. If my resting heart rate is, you know, much, much higher than that, right where it normally is. And then sleep. I'm looking at REM sleep, deep sleep, you know, 60 plus minutes of each. And I'm trying to get at least eight hours of sleep every single night. Okay, so we talked about sort of that perfect segue way back to our we're slowly getting through all of your routine, she said. Sleep is a big deal for you. You spent some time figuring out what are your things to mess with sleep. So what are your favorites and what are your things that are big sellers out there, but you want to tell people like, don't mess with that. That doesn't do anything. Yep. So again, just sticking to a similar routine schedule, schedule. It's free. It's free 99 having a schedule nine. And I know that there's things that are going to get in the way. Life. Yeah, yeah life's going to get in the way. But to the best possible that you can treat it like a job. Yeah. Cold environment. God bless my girlfriend. She loves it at 63 at night. So, 63 with the mattress cooler or just 63 as well. We have a chilly pad. My side set to the lowest setting, which I want to say might be high 50s. She's cool in the bedroom. Is hers on a heat warmer side. Okay, okay. Well, with with it. Cool. So she's crazy, just like you just say that's. Are you match? Yup, yup. Anywhere. Sleep mask. I wear sleep pods now a sleep mask because you can't get it dark enough in the room. Or you even if it is dark, you just sleep. Mask also used to it because I travel a bunch and when I'm traveling, I might not be able to control the way. Yeah as much. Same with earplugs, you know. It's. You sure it's quiet here, but when I travel, I can't control that. So I want to be used to wearing them on a regular. Yeah, that's a good point. I like that night just to keep the sleep environment the exact same. Regardless of where I am, the amount of annoying things that have lights nowadays and and even eat, sleep. We have an eight sleep and it's got a tiny little light at the bottom. It's just it's not necessary. I'm okay with you being on and not showing me that you're on everything has a little light now. Okay. Supplements, magnesium. What's your stack? Yeah. L-theanine. I have taken melatonin for years. I know that's a controversial one, but I don't for a really long time. See, I don't think that should be controversial, because I think melatonin is one of those. Sleep is so critical that if anything helps you get sleep and better sleep, then the what's the controversy about? Because the the, the side effect of not getting good sleep is way more profound than is melatonin bad for you in the long run? That's crazy. Talk to me. Anything that gets you. And so on. 16 years in and I haven't turned into it. Yeah. And there's even studies supporting high dose melatonin as well as anti-inflammatory reasoning. Cancer patient I mean high dose. So melatonin can be anywhere from zero point something to five milligrams for sleep. Right. But in the cancer world though you 60mg a day. Yeah. So the idea that melatonin could be bad for you, it goes back to one of my annoyances in the functional medicine world where we we can demonize things and really confuse the consumer. And if someone's taking melatonin and someone's saying it's bad, they're going to reach for Ambien now, like, well, hello, melatonin is going to be a whole lot better for you than Ambien or lorazepam or whatever else. So I'm on your body. Exactly. So I hate that we demonize anything that's that's basically natural and harmless. It goes back to like when people started, oh, we don't eat the skin of a tomato. That's on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, how do we get here if you're eating tomatoes instead of Cheetos? I'm all aboard. I don't care if you're cooking. I'm a ra whatnot, so we can demonize things. Sorry, I get on rampages every day. So now melatonin is safe. If you're getting good sleep, never get nightmares on melatonin. Maybe it's not for you. That's okay. Okay. So magnesium theanine, sometimes melatonin. What else is in your sleep stack? Yeah. And do you know Gaba? Yeah, the ones that I'll take. Yeah. And do you need it or you notice that you get better metrics when you take them? I get better metrics when I take it for sure. Okay. Yep. Okay. All right. And so did we get all this. What about mouth taping? Are you a mouth taper? I haven't done the mouth taping. I haven't either, but people swear by it. Yeah, I do it for sleep. But I wear on this morning. Yeah. No, I like the feeling of being able to get more oxygen. Yeah. So I'm doing the race. I'm definitely wearing a nose strip but yeah. Yeah. Mouth taping I have not done I don't snore, so I don't have major issues where I think mouth taping can benefit you. And yeah, for me it's just a cool, dark environment making sure that I'm not eating too late. That will affect my sleep. If I have a big steak dinner at 8 p.m., I'm not going to sleep as well as if I had it at 530 or 6, so I do. I I'm glad you said that. We harp on patients about that all the time because it's it's and really patients only really notice when they're tracking their metrics. Because when you have a dinner too late, you're really not going to notice your sleep quality that much. But when you can see those metrics, it's affected every time. And that meal. And it's not just the steak dinner, it's the, the, of course, a bad snack close to bedtime, but even a healthy snack close to bedtime just diverts blood flow to the gut and or whatever it is, hormones, whatnot and effects that sleep. And sleep is one of those uncontrollable variables that we have to have. If you have a good sleep, your day is going to go better. If your day goes better, you're more likely to work out and exercise and eat right. And if that goes well, then you're more likely to sleep right. It is. And unfortunately, when we're at our work, when we feel our worst, whether it be, just a life circumstance emotionally whatnot, we're more likely to be on the couch eating ice cream. And when we're doing that, we're more likely to get bad sleep. When we get bad sleep, we're more likely to be doing that same thing the next night, right? So, so changing that thing. And I like that you harped on earlier, pick one thing. So if you're already eating late and that's not the thing you're going to do, okay. But pick one thing and work on that, okay. It did. We pretty much conquered the sleep routine, conquered the sleep routine. And also time blocking is so important for me. What do you mean by that? I'm going to be doing what I need to be doing. Yeah. You know, it's very structured each day. So my morning workout is blocked off and then I'm working after my morning workout. So creating content I'm on calls, I'm answering emails and doing podcasts. And then I usually do an Arabic session in the afternoon biking or running. And then I do another little work sprint a couple hours where I'm answering emails or creating content. People come over to Sana around 5 p.m., eat around 630, wind down in the evenings before going to bed. Rinse and repeat. Okay, I think an important part. I want you to go back to that. You didn't even say you did, but I know you do is so many people have trouble clocking out from work. So what I hear is your work is easily on your phone, easily with meetings and text messages and all that. So how do you set that divide? Or do you work from home or you work in an office space? I work anywhere I am, yeah, okay. See that's a problem for people. So you have an ability to turn it off. So other people watching that may have virtual jobs or may not. But how do you turn it off. How do you time blocked saying work is now done. Even if I'm not done work is done. Yeah. And I'm not great at this. But you know that's on a routine at 5 p.m. kind of starts to wind down. Routine forces you to because that phone won't survive anyway. I'm not on my phone during that time period. And then I'm having dinner and then I'm generally listening to a podcast or watching YouTube in the evening trying to learn something. And then, you know, I'm hitting the hay. Not to say I'm not still answering emails. You're right, but I'm not stimulated like I was earlier in the day. I'm not taking calls at 9 p.m.. I'm not answering a thoughtful email at 9 p.m.. Yeah, so or an emotional. And those are the worst, the most annoying emails. I start to wind down from 5 p.m. on. Okay, okay. So you talked about nighttime routine. What is the morning routine stack or whatnot? Yeah. Morning routine would be kind of the opposite where I'm trying to get to something I would get to later in the day first thing in the morning, because I don't have as many messages coming in. Yep. I don't have, you know, my phone's not blowing up with phone calls or messages, so that's when I'll try and write that our email. Yeah, that piece of content for a brand that requires a lot of thought. So I usually get up around 6 to 630, make a coffee, drink some water, take my supplements, and then what's your what's your morning supplements. What do you focus on these days. Yeah. So I take a supplement called timeline Longevity for mitochondrial health. I think that one's really important. As I continue to age, I want to keep my mitochondria healthy. They have really good reviews on various, third party websites. I get creatine five grams every single day and have for a very long time. And that's gotten super popular in the past two years with, with Alzheimer's. Research is everywhere now, everywhere beyond just the ability to train harder. Yeah. And it's easy. So it's such low hanging fruit for people. If you're not doing it already, you need to be doing it so easy. Yep. I take an organ meat supplement. Gross. I'm always shocked that that's just nutrients that I like. They're important I, I could so I just think that's what I was going to say. Like, I can't get on board with eating organ meats. I understand how beneficial it is, but at least taking the supplement, yeah, it'll taste good. And they're not. Yeah. The muscle meats are so much more preferable for me. What else do I take regularly? A nitric oxide supplement. Just because I'm competing at a high level in sports. So I, want to make sure I have good blood flow. Have you noticed any difference between the nitric oxide supplements and, are you allowed to say what your favorite is from? The feed is the one that I take. And that's something where I do notice benefit. Yeah. I'll, I'll just notice my legs aren't fatiguing as fast. And the hard workouts, you know, doing Leadville, I feel like the burn doesn't burn until later by taking it so, yeah, I think that's helped. A ton. And then I take a natural testosterone support supplement. So. Zinc boron. Jim. Ashwagandha to help with cortisol, vitamin D, those colostrum I'll take here and there. Really. You know, take here and there. I have access to a lot. Yeah. But the routine ones that I'm traveling with would be, you know, those first ones where, a day of taking it, what other what are other important things outside of the modality world supplement world. You said community. But what else is important to Eric that that helps keep him ticking and not putting his head through the ceiling and keeping the maintenance going. What are. Yeah, progression systems I think are really important as we get busier in life and we collect more glass balls, we need systems. So that's important to me, building teams for various things, figuring out what the delegate automate, eliminate so you can do what you can, what only you can do best is important to me. Spending time with my girlfriend on my dog is important to me. Travel. Does your dog work out with you? She doesn't know. Okay, I was going to say there's no way she can keep up with you. I'm assuming she's a Frisbee player for most of her life. So her hips bother her now. We we call them cul de sac hikes is what she goes on. Okay. Around that zone, too. There you go. Zone one. There's your zone one workout. And then. Yeah, I love progression. Everything I do, there's progression involved. I love building businesses. I love helping others build businesses. I love investing, I love content creation. I love sport, anything where I can dictate effort. And you know where that places me and that can I want to control my destiny. So I like picking things where purposeful progress dictates where I get to. Okay. So what would you tell your older self you're a 20 year old self or whatnot knowing what you know now what? What are some things you would tell little Eric? Yeah, I think if you're young, then don't just trade time for money. For a little bit. Yeah. These kids that are going to build residual income, passive income so that, you know, you can then do things that you're really passionate about. I was very fortunate, again, that my father pointed me in that direction of building a business that yielded passive income so that I could then start taking risks and figuring out what I was really passionate about. And I wanted to do it just as a hobby that then turned into a business. So I think that's important. We only live once, so you want to make sure that you're getting as close to your perfect day as possible. And, you know, I was able to find that perfect day in my 30s. So I would just tell my 20 year old self that, like, you need to explore a lot. You need to figure out things you don't like to figure out, things you do like you need to meet a lot of people I often preach meet at least one new person every day. That way you can figure out who your tribe is. Yeah, figure out you know who the people are that you want to be around to raise your ceiling. And, yeah, it's just experiencing life. If you experience life to its fullest, you'll figure out your way. Yeah. Search for the, I think the residual income is is a big piece. And and unfortunately, this, this millennial generation younger than us has gotten a bad rap for work ethic and whatnot. And the growing up with Instagram billionaires. Yeah, yeah. Fancy cars. Yeah. And so they feel like they should be rich right now. But that, that that passive revenue ball feeding and continue to get bigger. Any advice for those youngsters because they're it's like a retirement account. You put money in a retirement account and that doesn't help you right now. It hurt you right now. It helps you in the future. But building that residual residual income slowly and steadily, yeah, it's not nearly as much money as you make per hour, but it's passive. Yeah. So any advice for them of what to look for, books to read or anything like how does someone what would you say. Yeah. Or make more. But you know, instead of buying a house for yourself like your first house, buy a multifamily house, or you can rent out three of the units to others so they're paying for your mortgage, and then you can afford that nicer house. And now you have this passive income source with the real estate. Invest more when you're young than you think you need to because it's going to compound over time. Yeah. And I learned kind of the hard way that like having nice things doesn't earn respect. It's like having a skill or being really passionate about something that starts to attract opportunities into your life. And in my 20s, I just, I wanted nice things because I thought I was going to buy respect and friends and, you know, lots of people being around me. But then when I got really good at Triathalon and I just exuded positivity, and then I was like, just really focused on one thing, that's when all these opportunities started coming my way. It wasn't from having the nice watch, the nice car or the nice condo. So like, hone your skill and figure out what you're really passionate about when you're young, because that's going to start attracting opportunities into your life rather than spending lots of money on nice things. And then you're hurting your 40 year old self down the road. Yeah. Eric, how would you convince other people to become Eric like, because there's these there's sick people out there. There's people that are trading time for money. We more people to jump on this wellness train and get on their metrics and do their lab testing with with fiber and or whoever. So what are some of the little breadcrumb trail? Gluten free bread crumb trail that that led you into this wellness thing is I, I'm celiac. So I got to say the gluten free bread crumb trail, so starting is the hardest part. Oh. For anyone? Yeah. Me if I, you know, I was at a very high level in triathlon, and then I kind of had to start as a beginner at CrossFit in those first six months. They weren't enjoyable because I was coming from a high level in one thing and then being a rookie again and the other. But did you feel like an imposter? I did, yeah, I definitely did. And I felt like like getting out of triathlon that I had to then excel at something else and get back to that high place. I think that's really tough when you get to a high level of anything and then it doesn't serve you anymore, you know, what do I do now? I've lost my purpose and I've lost my identity. So that was definitely a difficult chapter. But I think most people quit before they get into flow with it. So starting Hardest Thing and then sticking with it with it is the next hardest thing. And don't overwhelm yourself with too many things. Get one thing on autopilot and then tackle the next thing with wellness. So if it's working out, commit to a personal trainer, commit to a group workout class, or commit to a running club or a walking club or, you know, playing pickleball with your friend three times per week, just doing something that you enjoy when there's not a lot of friction, and then stick with it long enough that you reach flow, stay with it where you just you enjoy it because you've gotten good enough at it that you start to see this progression in it. I love that I've never really tied those two things together, so I wanted to highlight that too is like, okay, starting something small, that makes sense. Getting that flow state that makes sense. But another thing you just said that I wanted to highlight is find others that do it, too, and then they'll keep you. Because when you don't want to go to the do whatever it is, pickleball or whatnot, they do. And when when they don't, you do. And so getting that community around that, and if you want to start with, with food, then okay, then then start in the kitchen, share with others, start sharing recipes or whatnot, get someone else motivated with you. Because, yeah, others. And, you know, oftentimes when I have a hard workout, I'll invite someone who I know is faster than me. I think I push myself today and invite my buddy Eric, who's a faster runner. He's going to push me. But I signed up for this. Like I need a high intensity day. So I'm going to invite somebody who's going to raise my ceiling and maybe push harder than I would push on my own. That is so true. I am a very amateur mountain biker, and I ran into a guy who did mountain biking. He offered to come with me and I was like, oh sure, I'll go. I had no idea how fast this guy was, and I caught myself like I was not keeping up by any means, but just watching someone do it tells you that, hey, this is possible. And then we learn subconsciously without even knowing. So just watching them do things, you're already picking up things from learning that pattern. I began swimming in triathlon. I joined a masters swim club. I got my butt kicked every single day. But just watching them swim, it was like, yeah, yeah, watching and learning. Watching and learning. Okay, well, Eric, I think we're running out of time. So any last thoughts, any memories, any funds stories. How about that? Any good fun stories you want to share? I have so many fun stories. Give us one. What? It comes to the top of the mind. I mean, getting to the Ironman World Championship. That's crazy. By the way, I remember sitting on the plane after my first Ironman World Championships, just reflecting on it and being like, I was just with some of the best athletes in the world. And, you know, four years ago I was just this, you know, semi overweight, insurance weight. You got to a world class Ironman in four years. Yeah. That's insane. Laser focus. You know, once I won, I think I could have laser focus and still not get there in ten years. I mean, I wouldn't say there was any genetic gift. I literally just put blinders on, and. Yeah, that was my main goal for four years. Wow. Hitting the daily training to get to the World Championships. Yeah. You know, two years in I didn't think it was possible. Then three years in, I'm like, I can visualize it. I'm going to be there and then I'm there. I do think everyone is capable of doing a full length Ironman. I do think every person is. Now, maybe by the time you're 70 you've missed your opportunity. But it's still on my bucket list. My wife says no, but at some point it does. It does demanding sport, and I would encourage people to do it when they have the time to be able to do it, and they don't feel like they're going to sacrifice the glass balls drop in life. But it taught me so much. Yeah, it taught me way more than I can be really fit. I learned so many life lessons from it. Fantastic. And to do it in such a beautiful place. Hawaii. Just my other ones too. And I love doing it in my class. And yeah, it's something to watch. And friends. That's cool. Back to that community. Yep. So, Eric, people watching you and following, how can they reach out to you on the website? Or how do they get in touch with you? How do they follow along? Yep. Best places. Instagram. Just my name, Eric Hinman and then have a YouTube channel. Eric Hanneman h and h I n h I am glad I asked. Okay, and if they want a sauna in 190 degree. Is that only in Austin or Denver or Denver? Yeah, we're here six months out of the year, winter and then go back to Denver in mid April. Okay. But warning it is 190. We're going to suffer together I love it. Thank you Eric. Thank you. If you're ready to take control of your health. Visit vibrant-wellness.com to learn how advanced integrative lab testing can uncover root causes and guide your path to vitality. Vibrant offers one stop shop testing solutions, including the total tax burden. Like we discussed on today's episode, giving you actionable insights you can use with your health care provider or patients to support targeted, effective healing. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Vibrant Wellness and be sure to like and subscribe to the Vibrant Wellness Podcast for more conversations with leading voices and health, longevity and personalized medicine.