The Vibrant Wellness Podcast

The 5 Stressors That Activate Longevity Genes | Dr. Sharon Bergquist, MD

• Vibrant Wellness • Season 1 • Episode 121

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Is all stress bad?

For decades, medicine has treated stress as something purely harmful. But what if the right kind of stress is exactly what builds resilience, activates longevity genes, and strengthens mitochondrial health?

In this episode, Dr. Bergquist joins us to unpack the science behind “good stress” — the mild to moderate stressors that activate cellular repair, stimulate autophagy, improve metabolic efficiency, and build psychological resilience.

We explore how modern comfort may be driving chronic disease, why diversity in exercise and nutrition matters, and how time-restricted eating, phytochemicals, cognitive challenges, and movement work together to activate the body’s innate repair systems.

This conversation reframes stress from something to eliminate to something to apply strategically.

If you work with patients focused on longevity, metabolic health, or prevention, this episode offers a practical framework rooted in molecular biology.


🔗 Dr. Sharon Bergquist, MD

https://drsharonbergquist.com/

https://www.instagram.com/thegoodstressdoctor/?hl=en

🔗 Dr. Alex Carrasco, MD

https://nourishmedicine.com

https://www.instagram.com/dralexcarrasco


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most and research around stress has been how chronic stress works. Streams of stress are harmful to us. But there's so much more in the medical literature that I think has been drowned out specifically around the science of good. certain types of stress, when they are introduced in mild to moderate and severe storms, diverge in response on human health. Right. And chronic or intense stress. And there's a lot of exciting information because this new view of stress has an opportunity to do transformation With the. Help! Today we're excited to welcome Doctor Sharon Bergquist to the podcast, a Yale and Harvard trained internal medicine physician and scientist with nearly three decades of experience at the forefront of preventative care, Doctor Bergquist is known for translating cutting edge science into practical strategies for better health. In her book The Stress Paradox, she challenges the way we think about stress, showing how five essential good stressors can sharpen the mind, boost mood, improve gut health, and reduce chronic disease risk. She also founded Emory Lifestyle Medicine and Wellness and has designed award winning, evidence based programs to bring prevention and disease management into mainstream care. We're thrilled to have her here to share her insights and expertise. thank you so much for joining us today, doctor Bergquist. We are so excited to have you. I am thrilled to be here. And it's just such a wonderful opportunity to be able to have this conversation. Yeah, I think that, coming to learn about your work has just been like a breath of fresh air. You know, in the longevity world, in the functional medicine world, we talk a lot about stress as far as nervous system. And we also talk about how stress is, you know, deleterious or bad. And I love that your approach and what you're looking at is saying, well, stress can be bad, but it can also be useful. So how do we use it in a useful way? And I'd love to just hear more about that. You know, why do you ask that? Because most of working in health care around stress is that stress hormones. And there's a lot of history. Originated about maybe there's a person who had done a series of experiments on France, no matter how he tortured them, streams of cold and spinal shock. They all developed general adaptation syndrome, which is they got really sick and then they died. Okay. And you know, he published his findings in the journal nature in 1936. And that house transformation most and research around stress has been how chronic stress works. Streams of stress are harmful to us. But there's so much more in the medical literature that I think has been drowned out specifically around the science of good. And what we're learning is that certain types of stress, when they are introduced in mild to moderate and severe storms, diverge in response on human health. Right. And chronic or intense stress. And there's a lot of exciting information because this new view of stress has an opportunity to do transformation that can help us reach our human potential for health. And that's ultimately what drew me to understanding how it works. Yeah. So I think that something that a lot of our listeners might be interested in, because they're generally clinicians, is how do we tap into just the systems that the body has that do create the benefits of stress? And I don't know if we're really even taught that in medical school. Not really. I, I mean, I wasn't I never learned about autophagy or fasting or you know, even nutrition. Exactly. You know, I think there's, you know, that we were never taught about nutrition. About the power of lifestyle. But this is yet another layer because I think there's a general understanding that we need to get to the root. Yes. Needs to if you want to make any meaningful change in the future. But what I think sometimes you know we don't do enough have this extreme. But what does that mean to the new brains. And this science around food stress is taking us to the smallest our cell. Yes. And how can we make our cells healthy. Because at the end of the day, our cells are the micro version of our entire right, 37 trillion cells. Right? And if a cell in our heart is healthy, that, you know, is a cell in our brains healthy, when you create cellular health, you are really bringing together the mind and the body. Yes. We're consistent because at the end of the day, our intermediate cells are organ systems that are made of cells, and cells communicate with each other. Yeah. We get that fundamental. There's no. Right. Get to read send for me is really at this intersection of cellular. By our lifestyle habits that create this foundational health that slows not only, you know the process of developing disease, but what's really incredible is it also there's the hallmarks of yes for also some biological age in regard to believe that the read our body's the natural rhythm. The way that we can honor our genes. So there's there's no side effect. Right. Yeah. And what where would you start. Because I think in your book you talk about five stressors that are actually pretty good for us. Yeah. Exactly. So what I try to do in the book is really reverse engineer. We were meant to learn because we have molecular and cellular technology right now that's helping us understand our body in an unprecedented. Yeah. And and and sadly it's, it's creating a widening gap between how to do it and people are interested in science. You feel like the translational gap is increasing rather rather than closing. 100%. Yeah. And into me, this is really the heart of why I wanted to write this book in ultimately what we're we're trying to do by making sure your health is to regenerate. And in this process of reverse engineering, what I really wanted to understand is how do you activate our for defense. And we have the ability to make ourselves healthier because we can do what I turn to for flies and we can use this to damage ramping up our natural ability to kind of moderate and so. We can recycle cells through the process. In our cells to junkyard. Yeah. Using and salvaging and and we're scrapping what we can't salvage. We are we entrenching ourselves because we have the ability to create more mitochondria and also create this process right where we can help the efficiency and the function of our system by essentially recycling the ones that have more oxidative damage and produce more reactive oxygen species in their process of metabolism. And we have the ability to repair so we can repair, Jeremy, we can repair proteins. And so essentially resist repair, recycle. We charge. And our ability to ramp up these defenses wisely and conserve set of genes combine to genes, which is short for vitality. And it's a gene sequence that has been handed down really. All of human history. Wow. And conception of origin. Yet you know, years ago when we shared this conserved gene sequence with animals. Wow. I mean, it is such a vital part of how we have survived. Yeah. It's really important in this gene sequencing, this ability for us to literally heal and repair our minds. So the practices that I talked about in the book are really how do we activate. Right. And that is how I landed on this kind of side and lifestyle. And we'll kind of do a little overview. Yeah. Because there's so much more in to the brain how to apply ourselves. Yeah. Well at a high level. Plant toxins. Chemicals in plants activate our longevity genes. Exercise in particular early Huntington's. And we can has a unique benefit. And you know for me it is not so much maternal standpoint that in this activation of this longevity. Right. Fasting but not in a time restricted. Yeah. You know I think the word fasting. And what I advocate for is more time restricted because the purpose of this is that the structure should be mild to moderate intensity. And that's exactly what we do in the daytime. Right. Because during the stress. Going to stress resistant mode. Repeat after me. Being longevity. It's the period of recovery. Our body's remodel to quiet suit time restricted natural juice. Yeah. And ramping up these disease defenses and recovery rate would preferentially. Yes. And I advocate for doing an extra healing pattern that aligns with our biology. And then the final stressor that I mentioned is cognitive challenges and psychological challenges. And what is really beautiful about those is that they. Yeah. And I mitochondrial health and ultimately a psychological stress. Yes. Is this your logical stressors to increase your mental resilience in this class? And definition? Yes. Of brings together these five practices. That's really fascinating. And it's interesting. You know, I've talked about this before. But my grandmother lived to be 103 and, you know, didn't really do anything different than, I think what was innate to her. But she did time restricted eating. She always eat in a very rigorous kind of schedule. She always just ate a little bit. And she did a lot of psychological challenges. She wrote poetry until she was 100. She read books like she was reading War and Peace. I remember when she was 99, just again. And, she would do crossword puzzles every day. And she volunteered until she was 95. And, and then, you know, she was also, you know, she probably didn't do a lot of like, no, no cold. No, no, heat, kind of heat or cold. Premises. But it's interesting. But to your point, and I was going to ask you, but, you know, my grandmother left Cuba at the age of 55 during the Cuban Revolution, so that was also very stressful. Do you feel like people that leave really stressful places also develop resilience? Or there's maybe a fork in the road where some people do really well and then some people don't? I feel like you might have touched about that a little bit. You know, because it strikes a chord. I will first say that what I love about how your grandmother like this is how our ancestors lives. Right. Right. All the way. And you know the agricultural is very still. And it's really since the Industrial Revolution that we have created this country. Yeah. You know where we have food preservation. And so that kind of disentangle that. You know, needing to have food scarcity. Right. I mean, yeah, we bring that into our human being. Further in the best friend. Right. And you know the more the, kind of mechanize a lot of labor, we don't need to. Right. And, and I think progressively we've allowed comfort in you know what this has benefit us right. You certainly aren't advocating. Yeah. Right. Like our immune systems did. Starvation. Biggest threat to our existence. But I think what we have to do is say, you know, our DNA is in doubt, right. And when we do these challenges and do these hard things, we're essentially to plant health. We are kind of putting money into the bank. Right. Our environment to create the processed food. Right. Environmental screens, all the things. Damage to our cells. Damaging our my country. Yeah. Yeah. Inflammation and so much of health advisors play up on the defense. Right. Remove the processed food. Right. But this whole approach of regenerating your body through making deposits. Right. Your cellular bank account. Yeah. Yeah. Well I like that. And I think our ancestors did that without needing to do it. Right. Right. And I think of lack of comfort. Has created this mismatch that is largely overlooked in when people talk about the mismatch theory. You're talking about our genes not being adapted to fast food. And that's certainly true. But there's this entire other mismatch of what can be taken out at. Right. So yeah that's what I. To bring to light and I love that about your grandmother. And to me I think when you have this lens early on. You start to ask this question even in your career what's possible. Right. And I started practicing like you know a lot of people listening I think you know like that, you know I'm in tune and you have this incredible luxury that we get to follow our patients. Yes. To see the natural history. Yes. Yes. You know, my first decade out of business, I prided myself on getting my patients well-controlled. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Blood pressure. Like optimal. You know. Underlying illnesses. Right. They had insulin resistance. It blood sugars as well controlled. It would manifest in your degenerate. Yeah. One day your patient. It kept on asking myself I need to do this better. Right. Right. And that ultimately led to down. Looking for prevention longevity. And that ultimately led to what is possible for you lifestyle. And once I made the general. Regenerative medicine essentially. Absolutely. Yes. For every person. Yeah. That's interesting, because when I was in medical school, you know, my heart initially was to work with underserved populations. And I did a lot of work. I went to medical school in San Antonio at the University of Texas and did a lot of work with, promoters, which were like, you know, people within the community that would help kind of, enact behavioral change within the community rather than maybe, someone outside of the community suggesting it. But but you realize how limited resources are, and, you know, now I'm in the functional medicine world and have been really, my whole career after my residency, and which is wonderful. And I get to serve an amazing population of patients, but it's very different than the underserved community. And and a lot of times this medicine feels very, tangible for them. So to me, what is always kind of rubbed the fur the wrong way is I love what I do, but how could we bring this to how could we bring this to people that can't afford this care or how could we teach doctors to teach their patients to have this kind of care and to enact these systems? Because a lot of times I'll be sitting in my clinic and I'll be thinking, you know, this is just so, antithetical to the way that nature intended for us to live our lives. I shouldn't be sitting behind a, you know, a desk. I shouldn't be on a screen for six hours a day. I should be moving my body. I should, you know, all of these things that, like you said, these comforts, these technological advances that are really wonderful in some ways, but also limit us and I think limit the way that we're meant to live and should live. So, I mean, because that is our culture. And our culture kind of falls. Yes. And I think dealing with that is that I just take for us from our house. Takes us down the path of seeing where. I out in my apartment. Yeah. And and what is clearly culture. Because what we think is our current one, it's almost like so counterintuitive right. To feel like you have to reintroduce the way our ancestors. Right. Right. It starts as an intervention. Right. When that is a normal state to intervention is unimportant. Right. Human experiment. Let's put, you know, humans in a room. Let them not move. Yeah. Let's seal the house up. You know, let's not expose them to sunlight. Right. You know, let's take out natural light and put them right here. Yeah. No physical labor. Yeah. And let's see how quickly they develop. Right. And that is the big experiment. Like if I wanted to get I. And we saw how the separating from two. Yes. There's no way any ethical. Right. We take this as a culture. Right. And I think that is what's so important to bring to light is that these intermittent stressors in some ways, you know, people think that, oh, it's, you know, radical, right? You introduce more stress to. You, you know, already totally stressed out. Like why would I want to choose the right answers. Because I have to. Comfort's inflammatory. This is hard and sad but it's true right. You have this inclination towards. Yeah. Because that is how we would conserve energy. Yeah. And that is how, you know, we get. Like we have these things. And whereas it's really just putting these inclinations in. Right. Yeah. It's it's a, it's a compelling approach. I think what you're doing and I would love to dive deeper into your five S's. And you know what, what what we can do. You know, the our audience is generally clinicians, but also some very educated patients that also want to, you know, impact longevity. And I think one more thing I wanted to add just to your point is that what's so refreshing is that in the longevity medicine space, you know, this is going to be a probably, I don't know, multibillion trillion dollar industry at some point because people are really chasing longevity now. But what is beautiful is that it truly doesn't have to be. There's so many innate things that we can do that and and even studies that you could probably share, you know, like the, you know, the sauna studies out of Eastern Europe or was it Norway with, the limited food and scarce food and how they, you know, ended up having, what, less heart attacks? I think, in the 1940s. There's a lot of great, you know, data that is not current that we can build upon and use already. And I think a lot of the supplements and a lot of companies are actually tapping into the pathways by which. So I think the when you do that to our lifestyle, we are doing it in a way that, you know, doesn't have any other pathway in the body, but it also does it in a way that the magnitude is so meaningful. Yeah. Because so much of our DNA is actually tied to the lifestyle, and a lot of the supplements are touching one particular person. Right. Right. The skin is going to be drowned out with these lifestyle factors. Yes. That's a perfect sample to talk about. Five stressors. Well we'll start with phytochemicals because there are so many supplement forms. And. So phytochemicals as you know are the chemicals in plants and fighting chemicals are neutral. Like cats and calves. You should not. Have not a lot of anti-inflammatory antioxidant. Fruits and vegetables. They're incredible. Yeah. They're you know they're odors and it being safe to eat food. Yeah. Right. Yes. The interesting part is the plants may find examples that have resistance to them. Right. So plants that are out in the wild are exposed. To radiation. And they find the chemicals to deter insects. And to become resistant against these elements. And they're actually toxic. They were created to do for us as humans. Yeah. Right. And I want to be clear. You know. Yeah. Lectins all the things. Micro levels of toxins are not. Right. What they do is that when my body senses this, when I have this incredible ability to detoxify. The chemicals and my body gets stressed by these longevity genes. And what that does is it actually ramps up our own anti oxidant enzymes. So we ramp up. We have not the genes that Glutathione. Yeah. And are these two detoxification enzymes in when we eat or in this property that micro amounts. In our bodies actually in the. It ramps up and digest enhancement defenses of things that are endogenous ability to moderate inflammation in your DNA to trigger autophagy. And what is the power. When we take them in the form of a supplement you know first of all the dose. Right. A small amount. And if we take them excessive amount. Unintended effects. So for example there was an experiment and my, my colleagues now an experiment where they did a study on exercise and they gave one do this. The great. Hi. Hi. This is a famous mutation. 18 to 18 times like a typical sentence. And the other group was a control group. Both groups exercised for a month at the end of the month the group that did not have any accidents saw higher levels of the enzyme. Say also something that insulin sensitivity. An exercise the group that was on the high dose and that they not them the enzymes that did not have the benefit from insulin sensitization and the super high doses. The innate response. And so. Right. Right. Right. This is how we understood why at that particular time the chemical is dramatically. Right. Right. So I think that there is a place where right when we can't access the diversity. Yeah. Because at the end of the day what we really want is diversity. And right now there are 30,000 medical foods. And while we cultivate around. Wow. It's pretty remarkable that 90% of counties where we are coming from 15% to 50% counties, which is coming from. Wow. And the goal is to get what is it, 50 different plant foods a week, ideally 30, 30. What optimization method? I am. Just for getting five fruits and. Yeah. I think in everything we want to do. Yeah. Right. Wow. So what I love about this is the first is that these are really high things that require minimal. Yeah. Because they're getting to some foundation. And also it is probably each of the biggest levers. And they don't require, spending hours or anything. Super. Yeah. Right. You want to be very open. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Let's just think of that one more thing. Yeah. That sounds obvious. You know. In your body the the more variety that. Right. I think that's what makes it so that is really really neat. Okay. So what's another stressor that's good for us. Exercise. This has been said in many ways that the beauty of how exercise is that exercise is actually the stress. Right. We understand that at some level. I think that when you go to the gym and we lift. Yeah. Right. Right. You know muscles exercise. Metabolic. And how that works is that when we release reactive oxygen species there's just a small, it ramps up the oxygen. The ways that exercise helps us. The other really cool is how it activates. So when we exercise we rapidly. And we have a fuel sensor. Yeah. And need a protein kind this pathway. And it's like a little sensor when it senses red our energy. Exercise. What happens as a result is our body turns on these molecular switches. So all these stressors ultimately turn on different molecular switches. Those molecular switches ring up different genes. And that's what happens in a stress resistant state. The stress. And it's in the recovery that we actually express the genes. We create the products. Happens in this scenario with the metabolic stress and the activation of turned on the PTC. Which is the gene that kind of stimulates the mitochondria to not stress energy depletion turns on our body's ability. For creating warming. Right. In you know in biology class I think we have this picture that every cell has like this. Right. Reality cells can have thousands. Right. Like almost mind. Right. For energy generation. Yeah. And exercise can actually make you adapt too. So we need to stress your body to death. Right. So that the next time you encounter that. Right. This is your field. And in this you're, you're, you're building your energy for a day. Every function in our body requires. Right. And mitochondrial dysfunction I think is the disease. Yeah. You know from the 2022 studies I think it's pretty, pretty often that 93% of Americans have or. Yeah. And when the cells are under power from my control dysfunction. Right. So if you picture, you know, in a cell and you create defective mitochondria coming out of that, a picture that is being. You put that battery some. Yeah. Off of. Yeah. Different assembly lines. None of them are right. There she is. Right. In the next frame. And our brains, you know, can produce energy, which is stunning. Yeah. We can't. Right. People can't mentor. This lack of mental clarity. We cannot regulate stress. Yeah. We're talking about now there's just convergence. Yes. Right. Ultimately you find mitochondria under power. We can't regulate. Can't effectively kind of use our cognitive capacity. Optimal way. I mean this is why so critical. It's the cellular level. And one thing that is really fascinating is that high intensity. Has a very unique benefit. Because the more you create that stressful scenario and ourselves so. Right. You get so much stronger. Yeah. More mitochondria by Genesis. And that's really cool that your studies have shown that attitude to moderate intensity. You get higher volume. So it is effective for my. Intensity. Yeah. Right. So essentially you're taking you know cells from fixed energy to renewable. Right. And then you're taking out the right. Yeah. You're creating this incredible community source inside every cell in your body. And what that does for human health is, is really just profound. Because at the end of the day, so much of chronic disease is something I just. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And I think as we come to understand this and this is something where dysfunction is how important it is to do these habits that create that cycle. Yeah. That's interesting. And I think that it really speaks to the point where, you know, your zone too is important. And so is hit. And then your resistance training is also important because then you can also make more cells that way, which then makes more mitochondria a form of exercise. Yeah. And I think it's really important to appreciate that because. Even go back to the diet. Come in. And then I like I eat healthy I eat you know pretty clean and process. Yeah. That's great. That's like healthy eating is now at the diverse right. Smoothie every day. Yeah. Well creatures of habit. Yeah. Three strawberries for. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You do this because it's easy. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. And it keeps swapping things out. Exercise. I think a lot of us create a workout. Like this day of the week I do. Yeah. Right. You listen to whatever and it's really cool. Just very recently you know asking this question what is the best exercise. The answer was was a diversity of. Yeah. And for it's very similar reasons. You know we do a diversity of different exercise in a diversity of intensity. Yes. We recruit the largest number of muscles. When we're doing that kind of lower intensity we're doing that. Right. Muscle fibers in the fibers of higher intensity. Fibers. And the diversity is increasing in different muscle. Right. And you're getting great improvement on your body and your legs. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Incorporating the same mitochondrial biogenesis in different muscle groups. So it's not really a surprise that clinical signs are showing more diversity of exercise with interesting intensity is what optimizes cellular health. And greatest number of cells in how does exercise. Well, I know that exercise increases Bdnf in the brain and that helps make new neural pathways. But is that also mitochondrial driven or how does that pathway work? And this kind of hits at the heart that maybe spoken so much about this. I think it's so important to emphasize that the is just as important as the stress of the stress without the recovery. In the process of stress we release. And we release you from exercise. Skeletal muscle. During exercise we also release A lot of these automatic stressors in the stress things, we kind of set ourselves up to do the healing and regeneration, the growth like genes that help your cells in the brain increase the synaptic rate. And so it is yet another way that we can. So we're not only making the mitochondria. Yeah. Better decision making, better stress regulation. But we're also releasing the brain driver that's improving the connections between. More of these brain cells and and making sounds. It's hard to recreate this. Right. The pathways by which we benefit are so complex. Yeah. So synergistic. And the magnitude of how much our genome. Yeah. It lies on this really dramatic high energy imbalance. What's the biggest threat to our existence. It's just so much of our biology centers ram energy and energy expenditure. Yeah. That's interesting because there are studies that show that, you know in hunter gatherer populations, you know, groups would spend a lot of energy maybe for a couple of hours a day, right, during the hunt. And then the rest of the days recovery. Right. With community. It's interesting. Yeah. What's fascinating is that we have a bigger demand driven physiology. When we are in when our ancestors hunting, it actually ramps up your body's ability to make energy in the year. Sedentary. So when our ancestors would sit around, metabolism ramps down the. It is way too energetically costly to burn calories. Right. Right. I think about our modern lives that you sit behind that screen, sitting by the fire all day long. Our body isn't a screensaver. Right. Right. To conserve energy. Yes. This is what we're supposed to. There is never any kind of checks and balances around doing this for hours on end to sit there. Now so when you say showing people who are sedentary with excuse breaks have high levels. Right. As high as blood sugar and just incorporating. Metabolism. And our physiology is enough to just start to stem cell metabolism so that my. Yeah. Right. It doesn't take much but it's exactly like you just said. It's how our biology kind of just adapted. Yeah. So we would conserve. Right. And then I guess the other the next stressor would be would that be more like food and fasting? Yeah. So let's talk about that because I think that because that also plays into the circadian rhythm. Because I think the the overall picture is we are seasonal creatures. And so, you know, we would never eat blackberries all year long. We would never eat strawberries all year long. We would never necessarily do the same movement patterns every day because we'd be doing different work outdoors. And so same with, with food. Sometimes we would feast, sometimes we would fast. So it's basically trying to just recreate the program the way that it was created. Right. Thank you for saying that. I think this is so sweet. Different. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that the existence of our ancestors was such that in scarcity. Just think. That was the term fasting. I think means so many different things. And I want to start off by saying what I really have a feeling for what I'm going to call normal. Because our bodies. We have incoming origin. Our cells are like what do I get to multiply. Yeah. Yeah. Incredibly. And when we don't have incoming since I was a period of time like that in stores, our body gets into a totally different phase, which is that it starts to break down and starts to use story. And this balance between growth and between, you know, from this build up to break down. That's what we want. Our bodies and this plays out at the physiological. Right. If we have continued storage of energy and not enough tapping into our. Which is a metabolic rate. And what I'm really advocating for is at least now 12 hours. Bodies have that chance to go into those build up and break. Yeah. And at some level when we go back 12 hours for year and that kind of build up and like you know we're, you know and continually telling ourselves that when we switch to have breakdowns, these personas go into that. When our body's just using glycogen or glucose for energy and instead we switched using form Creek. Right. Ketones. Signal. Ketones. Tell our body to hunker down. You know we're headed for hard times. Food is not coming in and being kind of picture. Yes. We were told today. Right. To the grocery store. Yeah. Yeah. So everybody wants to, like, just, you know, kind of get into this really energy efficient mode or whatever. Right. Wants to use them in the best way. And then it starts to stress resistant mode. Because if you have older cells. Can using a disproportionate amount of energy or worse yet there's the right kind of what's the right way. And it's creating this super efficient state. And when we recover from the feeding after the 12 hours, then we have healthy cells in. So when I use the term fasting I call it. Right. Yeah. In between. Yeah. And you know to stave off the chronic disease. And if we can do a little bit. You know I try and you know advocate for people 3 to 14. Yeah. Because once you've switched into using ketones you want to. Right. So and you know it sounds hard but we have to just remind ourselves of this and not adapt it to our brains. Right. Look at data from like apps that like data on dietary habits and this country, we're eating more than 15 pounds. So waking up at first? Yeah. Right. Wow. American. Yeah. Time frame for eating and giving our bodies a chance to prepare for or without adequate time to prepare. And the time restricted eating this kind of ideally, you know, 14, ten. And I know that I know a lot of people think it should be 16 hours based on food. Oh interesting. And the optimal amount for humans can really depend on your gender. So I want people to feel like, it's, Yeah. And the benchmark really is trying to get over these past 12 hours and ultimately with all of these stressors based on that is you know when you know you're in that. Right. So. You want to go right to the point where it feels like right. Yes. And then you want to. Right. To start off with. But that's just the bench. But it's more like when you are and you know there are people that say if you eat something under 50 calories that would still keep you in a fast you. Is that true. This is a really fascinating topic because the the purest. You can't even do black. Yeah. But you really enter the an and target that backfires and. Exactly. And you can you know kind of keep that dimmer switch still in that phase. Even with like minimal. Like it's a little bit you know. Right. Or a slice of an apple. Right. When you've been fasting for 14 hours you probably still need. Inhibition of enjoyment. You know I think it's almost sense. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever tried to do an extended past or even extend that. I find such a sense of mental. Yeah. I want to because you know, you feel like you need the right kind of changes happen until. Yeah. And that beta hydroxybutyrate is pretty, pretty powerful. It's it's amazing what it does for. All of these stressors. Yeah. We all know that constant unexpected can cause burnout. Stress. Right. And. You know that. Just. That's to your point I, and I think the kind of the, the bigger picture that I'm seeing from what you're saying is that there really is a place for moderation too, right. Because there is too much of a good thing, too much comfort and maybe too much. When people get so hardcore and so dogmatic in their regimens, you just really hit the nail on the head. And some people been mischaracterize. Right. And shouldn't that. Right. So our relationship essentially with stress is if you kind of put stress on the exact. The further you go to the right the more the intensity of the stress and you put yourself. Relationship is an inverted. Yeah. So when stress is at the far right. Intense. Like you just acid free right. Or you did hit after hit. Yeah. Yeah. You can reduce your. You can actually you can see the point where you are in such you have all. Right. Resilience. You know stress is actually just as harmful as you frame a framework of stress. No stress is actually the term. It's harmful. Right. Right. Yeah. In the middle of this kind of mild to moderate exam. Where the stresses it's just not actually especially intense as well. Yeah. That's what we want to try to you know again push yourself and think. Go find simply to just start moving. Yeah. In a way that is so simple. Right. You know. Yeah. 30s on a call. Right. You know, with exercise, it can be with myself as opposed to just one minute counts. Right. Amount of exercise to do that alone. And study showed for 6.8 years reduced all cause mortality by about 40%. Mortality by 50%. That's wild. Yeah. Yeah. These are bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. And I think, you know, in the wellness world, people really try to become wellness warriors. And, you know, there there can be too much of a good thing for sure. Yeah. And then I guess for like, your cognitive psychological stressors that are good for you, that's like learning a new skill, right? Like, you know, doing maybe learning a new instrument or doing a challenge or doing a puzzle or, you know. Well, I think I even read a study. It like trying to learn to write with your left hand if you're right handed or your non-dominant hand like that. Also things like that that are, you know, not they don't have to be so time intensive because you're feeling different, you know. So that the stress response really doesn't end when your heart starts. Right. Just saying you know a classic is your public speaking. Yeah. Yes. Know I agree. But the stress response movement doesn't work when your heart stops pounding because for hours and even days after work, your brain wants to know how. Mental stress comes in the form of a synaptic. Next time you're exposed to that same stressor. You are better. Yeah. Because you're building. You can think of psychological and cognitive stresses since you like. Right. Right. Right. In your life. That's exactly right. And there are now studies showing that people who have moderate stress in their life, outperform, you know, people who don't have a lot of stress. And the goal here is not new stress. Right. And the answer is for tax rate. Mortgages is for building societies is you. Definitely. And mortgage lending half is a moderate exposures to stressors. And that seems to be possible for for resilience for kindling. Yeah. Because. The stress of we are seeing better be so instead of right comes. Less anticipated and the more resilient. The better equipped for handling you know things that are uncontrollable. Right. Interesting response. So I think that this is stress. What we know is the credible techniques that creep in. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's super important. Yeah. This is the stress resilience tool. Yeah. Yeah. It's the long term. Not just in the moment when you have to make those investments. And in this case the psychological investments are cognitive reserve when you're learning a different language. And you're building psychological reserve when it's putting yourself in a situation is it's just stress. Yeah. Uncomfortable maybe. Yeah. I don't shy away. Yeah. There's no way to get to that other side. How to. Yeah. To becoming the best versions of ourselves. Right. Because what's fascinating about our news, this is the thing. One of these extensions, there's a limit to how much growth we can actually develop. 20 to 25% in finances is contested across the systems. And it seems like that's kind of a ceiling. Reason being when we are thrown out of our homeostatic balance. To reach down. And only above that do you mean that to grow. From experience. Right. Again back to why we can worry or do the extreme. May not be beneficial because more doesn't get you. Yeah. There's a ceiling. Exactly. So when we get into a pattern of stress we have to now. We can cumulatively increase our. Oh wow. Almost double. Wow. Two generations. Yeah. Surprising personal transformation. Yeah. If there's anything I want people to take away, this is to, one that all stress is harmful and embrace hard things. Yeah. But not to the point where there are. Right. But in a manner that is true. Yeah. That ultimately brings out our greatest resilience. And it allows us to live a life that is completely joyful. Thank you for joining us. And I have a lot to think about. This has just been presented in such a different and fresh way. And I am so thankful for your work. And you're brilliant, mind. And, what you're bringing to to humanity. So thanks for joining us. It's been my pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Oh, and then can you tell everyone how they can learn more about you? You know, where can they find you on social or on your website? Learn more from. The book is called fast. Was published last year and you can find the book on or wherever books are sold. And you can also find me on my website. I'm also on Instagram as the book. It's awesome. LinkedIn stock is your restaurant. They also have a free newsletter for anybody who's just really interested in getting more into new and different research. Fascinating. Thank you again. if today's episode reinforced anything, it's that we may need to rethink our relationship with stress and recognize that when approached intentionally, the right kinds of stress can strengthen resilience, support metabolic health, and reduce long term risk disease. That's where vibrant wellness comes in it vibrant. We're committed to equipping practitioners and patients with advanced, clinically relevant testing that connects symptoms to underlying systems Weather year practitioner looking to bring more precision to your protocols or someone on your own wellness journey. Seeking clear answers. Vibrant wellness is here to support smarter, more individualized care. Visit vibrant-wellness.com. Follow us on Instagram at Vibrant Wellness and be sure to like and subscribe to the Vibrant Wellness Podcast for more conversations with leading voices in health, longevity and personalized medicine. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time.