How Dopamine Shapes Cravings, Anxiety & Behavior | Kyle Bills, PhD

Dr. Kyle Bills joins the show to explore the neuroscience of dopamine, anxiety, addiction, and the emerging role of non-pharmacological interventions in supporting brain health. Together, we discuss how targeted vibrational stimulation may influence neurological pathways involved in reward, craving, and behavior and how this technology could complement existing therapies to support more effective, personalized care.

We dive into:

• How dopamine and GABA interact within the brain’s reward and learning pathways
• Why dopamine is more than a “feel-good” neurotransmitter and how it shapes behavior
• The neuroscience behind cravings, addiction, and withdrawal
• How targeted vibrational stimulation may influence dopamine-related brain circuitry
• What clinical research is showing about anxiety and substance use recovery
• How non-pharmacological interventions may complement cognitive behavioral therapy and other standards of care
• The potential role of this technology in supporting sleep, cravings, and behavioral change
• The future of neuroscience-driven, non-pharmacological approaches to mental and neurological health

🕒Chapters

00:00 – Welcome & Meet Dr. Kyle Bills

00:51 – The Science Behind NeuroNova

03:00 – Dopamine, Addiction & Withdrawal

06:32 – How Vibrational Stimulation Works

06:57 – Understanding GABA & Dopamine

10:34 – Supporting Addiction Recovery & Anxiety

14:40 – The Neuroscience of Anxiety & Negative Thinking

17:21 – Clinical Outcomes & Reducing Anxiety

18:17 – Social Media, Cravings & Behavioral Addiction

20:40 – Clinical Applications & Future Research

21:19 – Sleep & Non-Pharmacological Support

22:12 – Where to Learn More About NeuroNova

🔗 Dr. Alex Carrasco, MD

https://nourishmedicine.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dralexcarrasco/

🔗 Dr. Kyle Bills, PhD

https://www.instagram.com/drkylebills/ 

https://migraineandneurorehabcenter.com/ 

https://choosecove.com/ 

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Transcript

Kyle Bills 0:00

Dopamine is a learning cue. And so dopamine gets released, traditionally, we would say, in the presence of a novel or a salient experience, of something that is new or unanticipated, or something that's particularly potent or kind of a strong stimulus. And so the dopamine is released in order to prime all of these other brain circuits and all of the data that's come into my brain about the circumstances of this experience. And that dopamine firing will help me to form a new predictive lens through which I can see the world. In the end, it turned out that that a very specific frequency of stimulation peripherally, this mechanical stimulation, it would elicit a dopamine response in the mesolimbic circuitry. Sure enough, we found that we could depress these GAPA neurons and that the dopamine neurons got excited and it started having an effect where we could block some of the neuronal and behavioral sensitization that occurs from chronic drug use.

Alex Carrasco 1:15

Today on the podcast, our guest is Dr. Kyle Bills. Dr. Bills is a neuroscientist and clinician specializing in migraine, brain injury, and addiction recovery. His research bridges neuroscience, AI, and clinical trials. And he spent years developing non-pharmacological solutions for mental and neurological health. At NeuroNova, he leads scientific innovation and clinical strategy. Welcome to the Vibrant Wellness Podcast, Dr. Bills. I'm so happy that you're here.

Kyle Bills 1:40

Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

Alex Carrasco 1:42

Yes. Well, I, you know, I feel like a lot of times at these conferences, we find gems. And when I came to meet you and learn about your work and uh the device that you've created, I found like I believe that is a true gem. It's so creative and amazing. And so can you tell us a little bit about what you guys do at NeuroNova, what you figured out, and how it's impacting lives?

Kyle Bills 2:08

Yeah, absolutely. Um well, so it's a, I mean, really, when you when you see it, it's a it's a chair. It looks like a chair, right? It's a stool.

Alex Carrasco 2:15

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 2:16

Um and it it has two vibrational sources that are embedded within this chair. And and they produce a vibrational wave that that creates activation of mechanically sensitive nerve endings in the spine.

Alex Carrasco 2:30

Okay.

Kyle Bills 2:30

Um, okay, so now that sounds weird enough. So let me back up and talk about how we kind of got to that point. Um, years ago, clinically, we we start started noticing with with just a group of colleagues that that patients that we were working with, chronic pain patients that were coming off of opiates that were getting um physical interventions, they would report that their anxiety levels and their cravings were reduced. So physical interventions like exercise or like could be could be physical therapy modalities, manipulation, uh, movement, those types of things. And and for a long time we thought, okay, well, that that's interesting.

Alex Carrasco 3:05

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 3:05

But we would actually have them, they would they would want to come back every day while they were going through this process. And we didn't really need them to come back every day for the interventions we were providing. And so we thought, well, that's interesting. And and we didn't really know what to do with that for a long time, and and talked to some other colleagues at different conferences who kind of reported the same thing. Okay, so that that led to a conversation with another colleague, Dr. Scott Stephenson, um, another neuroscientist and kind of neuropharmacologist. And he was looking at some pathways, trying to track pathways related to acupuncture, okay, and how those neurological pathways led to the brain. And it and we just had this brainstorming session where we thought, well, maybe the effect is neurologically mediated. And so that led us to running a series of experiments where we we did spinal stimulator implants in rodents.

Alex Carrasco 3:56

Okay.

Kyle Bills 3:56

And then we put electrodes down in the brain so we could map out if this was indeed a pathway that was traveling into parts of the brain that are associated with anxiety.

Alex Carrasco 4:05

Okay.

Kyle Bills 4:06

And withdrawal from addiction.

Alex Carrasco 4:07

Okay.

Kyle Bills 4:08

So uh during withdrawal, really for most drugs of abuse, you have this period where dopamine neurons are depressed.

Alex Carrasco 4:17

Okay.

Kyle Bills 4:18

And then GABA neurons, which synapse onto the dopamine neurons, they're hyperexcitable. And and it produces this environment of withdrawal where there's there's kind of this just depletion of dopamine. And so when we when we started to modulate the rat spinal columns, um, sure enough, we found that we could depress these GABA neurons.

Alex Carrasco 4:40

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 4:41

Um, and that the dopamine neurons got excited. And and we kind of stared at this for weeks and repeated these experiments thinking, that can't be real.

Alex Carrasco 4:50

Okay.

Kyle Bills 4:51

Like that's a really odd, odd thing to occur. Um, and so we spent about a year and a half just methodically mapping this pathway. Uh, we would do uh ablation studies to determine which ascending pathway it followed, and and we would do techniques where we would infuse different blockers and drugs in different brain regions to figure out what was happening. But it in the end it turned out that that a very specific frequency um of stimulation peripherally, it is mechanical stimulation, um, it would elicit a dopamine response in the mesolimbic circuitry.

Alex Carrasco 5:26

Okay.

Kyle Bills 5:26

Um, and we'd get about a hundred and eighty percent baseline increase that peaked at about an hour and then returned to baseline at about two hours. Um that led us to then behavioral studies where we looked at it in the context of heroin use and we looked at it in the context of ethanol use and methamphetamines. And it started having an effect where we could we could block some of the the neuronal and behavioral sensitization that occurs from chronic drug use.

Alex Carrasco 5:55

Wow.

Kyle Bills 5:55

Which was crazy that that would be the case. And so we we published those papers and then we shifted over to the kind of the next order of mammal, which was college students. I love that.

Alex Carrasco 6:06

And you know, we we're like, I'm happy to get uh if you pay me, I'm happy to be uh test subject, right?

Kyle Bills 6:12

The the trouble is we we really didn't want uh a surgical intervention, we didn't want an invasive intervention. So we we grabbed some some great colleagues and and we worked through um uh a kind of a method, because the the challenge was that the frequency required to do this is about 80 hertz. Well, if you're familiar with with vibration plates, whole body vibration, things like that, they don't really they don't go that high.

Alex Carrasco 6:37

So a power plate doesn't do what your stool does.

Kyle Bills 6:40

No, it doesn't, it doesn't go that high. And so that was our first thought was well, great, we'll just but the the problem is 80 hertz is so fast that you can't get enough displacement to properly activate the deep spinal mechanoreceptors, which is where the majority of those live. And so we couldn't just put a device on someone's back and let it go at 80 hertz because it doesn't penetrate deep enough. And if you were to turn it up high enough so that it might, that would get close to like a striker saw. Um not ideal, right? Not gonna be a great solution. And so the the workaround here was was actually to take uh two different vibrational frequencies that are slightly offset, and if you set those upright, then they'll combine inside the person.

Alex Carrasco 7:26

Oh, wow.

Kyle Bills 7:27

And then you'll get harmonic multiples of the principal frequency. And that allowed us to use, excuse me, that allowed us to use um a lower frequency stimulation, but still get that higher frequency stimulation required to activate the circuits that we found in these preclinical studies.

Alex Carrasco 7:47

Wow, that's fascinating. So, okay. I think let's talk about I have I have a question. So typically when we think about anxiety, we think that people might need more GABA, right? Yeah. So tell me kind of how the GABA dopamine, you know, connection works.

Kyle Bills 8:06

So this is this is probably a pretty important point. So um if if we just in in isolation for a minute, let's talk about the mesolimbic system.

Alex Carrasco 8:13

Yes.

Kyle Bills 8:13

So there's lots of dopamine circuits.

Alex Carrasco 8:15

Okay.

Kyle Bills 8:16

Uh, and and GABA is the most prevalent neurotransmitter in the central nervous system.

Alex Carrasco 8:21

Okay.

Kyle Bills 8:21

And it's inhibitory.

Alex Carrasco 8:22

Right.

Kyle Bills 8:22

Right. So you think, oh, if I'm anxious, you know, we think of things like benzodiazepines that that we think, well, we want to increase GABA activity in order to depress and calm down the central nervous system, which is broadly true, of course. Right. But if you look specifically at the mesolimbic system, you've got kind of some unique characteristics. Dopamine neurons are in large measure controlled by GABA neurons.

Alex Carrasco 8:45

Okay.

Kyle Bills 8:46

And so they will fire onto GABA neurons, or excuse me, the GABA neurons will fire and release uh GABA, activate those GABA receptors on dopamine neurons, and that will throttle and slow down dopamine release.

Alex Carrasco 8:58

Okay.

Kyle Bills 8:59

Um, so uh depending on which circuit we're talking about, GABA is gonna have different effects, depending on the neurons that are involved. And now, dopamine is another curious uh point of commentary. In the mesolimbic system, we don't really want to think of dopamine as a neurotransmitter that makes you feel good. Okay. It's not necessarily the way we would describe its function. Um maybe an example would be okay, we're having a perfectly lovely conversation. Um I'll give you two scenarios in which dopamine would be released right now.

Alex Carrasco 9:32

Okay.

Kyle Bills 9:32

If you stood up and came over and gave me a big hug, I'd get a dopamine release.

Alex Carrasco 9:37

Okay.

Kyle Bills 9:38

Because I would not anticipate that behavior from you right now. But if you stood up and came over and walloped me in the mouth, I would also get a dopamine release in the mesolimbic system. Again, because I wouldn't have predicted that behavior at this moment.

Alex Carrasco 9:53

Okay.

Kyle Bills 9:53

And so, in a in a very real way, dopamine is a learning cue.

Alex Carrasco 9:58

Okay.

Kyle Bills 9:58

And so dopamine gets released, traditionally, we would say, in the presence of a novel or a salient experience. So something that is new or unanticipated, or something that's particularly potent or kind of a strong stimulus.

Alex Carrasco 10:11

Right.

Kyle Bills 10:12

And and the the biological rationale for this is that my brain is saying, well, wait a minute, you didn't predict very well what was about to happen. And so the dopamine's released in order to prime all of these other brain circuits and all of the data that's come into my brain about the circumstances of this experience.

Alex Carrasco 10:31

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 10:31

And that that dopamine firing will help me to form a new predictive lens through which I can see the world. And so you can you can imagine how this circuit going awry could could lead to things like post-traumatic stress disorder.

Alex Carrasco 10:45

Right.

Kyle Bills 10:46

Um, or if you've met somebody that's just overly optimistic all the time, right? Both of those can be a little pathological. Um, but those are those are getting to those points are are dopaminergically driven in a in a kind of a mesolimbic context.

Alex Carrasco 10:59

So if you're optimistic all the time, do you have too much dopamine?

Kyle Bills 11:02

It's not necessarily that you have too much dopamine, it's that dopamine has become a reinforcer that reinforces the predictions and experiences that we have.

Alex Carrasco 11:13

Okay.

Kyle Bills 11:13

And so let's say someone uses methamphetamine, for example. The dopamine is not per se the reason they experience euphoria with methamphetamine. That's a much more complex interaction of a variety of neurotransmitters. But the reinforcing of the behavior and the drive to seek and the craving and the learning that occurs with the experience, dopamine is the prime neurotransmitter in the mesolimbic system that's going to drive those circuit-based alterations and changes in behavior.

Alex Carrasco 11:42

Okay. So tell me about how the technology that you guys have developed is actually in real life helping patients with addiction, with anxiety, um, with drug uh withdrawal. Yeah. And also how clinicians can use it, because our audience is largely clinician-based.

Kyle Bills 12:00

Yeah, absolutely. Um so we we have a variety of providers that that are that are utilizing the the technology, and we've got a variety of studies that are happening right now where we're looking at at all kinds of different things. Um, in those preclinical studies, because those preclinical studies have demonstrated that that these frequencies will will kind of increase those dopamine levels. So when you think theoretically of this, you think, well, okay, well, if if dopamine is a signal that that prepares someone to change, then you can imagine these scenarios where we'd say, well, we want that to occur before someone goes into, say, a cognitive behavioral therapy session. We would want to prime that brain so that these interventions become more effective.

Alex Carrasco 12:45

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 12:46

Um, not intended to replace them, but intended to support them and kind of enhance the efficacy of what's happening. So in our in in the clinical trials we've we've run, uh, we've we've tested um the device in the context of residential um uh uh drug abuse treatment centers, you know, inpatient. We wanted to go to some of the hardest places where there's the most anxiety and and the most dopaminergic circuitry change that's occurred. Um and so you'll you'll find those studies and those clinical trials published indexed on PubMed. But um boy, it was it was quite effective when when you added the the device into the standard of care, yeah, we got an an additional 40 to 50 percent reduction um in measurable anxiety levels.

Alex Carrasco 13:37

And they literally just sit on the stool for 10 minutes.

Kyle Bills 13:40

They sit on the stool for 10 minutes, five days a week.

Alex Carrasco 13:42

Wow.

Kyle Bills 13:42

But again, it's in the context of what's happening with the standard of care. So um another really important side note, uh, dopamine is context dependent. And so simply elevating dopamine levels transiently, you know, that's fine, but we really want to do it in the context of how we want to change the way we perceive the world, how we want to change behavior, um, because that's that's dopamine's context. Um dopamine has some some startling arithmetic to it.

Alex Carrasco 14:14

Okay.

Kyle Bills 14:15

Um, some some others have studied this and and have demonstrated that um uh a positively reinforced experience with dopamine is not equivalent to a negative experience with dopamine.

Alex Carrasco 14:28

Okay.

Kyle Bills 14:28

So I think everybody's kind of experientially noted this. But if if you get up and give 10 really great speeches in front of groups of people, um, that's wonderful. But if you give one bad one, that's forever. Oh man, the reinforcing effects, and and you know, these are not exact, and others have studied this more than I have, but um, it seems that maybe the arithmetic is about 10 to 1.

Alex Carrasco 14:50

Okay.

Kyle Bills 14:51

So it takes about 10 positive reinforcing experiences to equate to one particularly potent negative experience with dopamine.

Alex Carrasco 14:59

So then with the technology that you have, do you feel like using it over and over and over again helps to upregulate the positive experience of, say, CBT therapy or whatever else you're trying to, whatever whatever other changes you're trying to affect?

Kyle Bills 15:13

Yeah, in the in the studies we've done that it the the data would support that it's a it's a very positive adjunctive therapy when done in conjunction with with those interventions that we know as the standard of care.

Alex Carrasco 15:25

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 15:25

It kind of enhancing outcomes and improving um the rapidity with which um treatment outcomes are achieved.

Alex Carrasco 15:33

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 15:33

Um, and we've seen some effects with decreased recidivism as well.

Alex Carrasco 15:37

So tell me a little bit about what you've seen just in generalized anxiety, because you know, a lot of the probably clinicians watching see anxiety in their practice every single day. It's you know widespread. I think it's gotten worse with social media. I think the world is a very anxious place right now.

Kyle Bills 15:51

Yeah. So we we we've certainly seen those outcomes in the in the clinical trials that we've run. So let me let me wax a little theoretical here into maybe some of the circuits. Um but yeah, so uh we we've done some of these preclinical studies where we've we've gone and and blocked different portions of brain. So we know, for example, that the pathway it travels through the basolateral amygdala, okay, which is a pretty important part for processing of emotion associated with experience. Um we know that we've got glutamaturgic projections that that travel in that are important that come from dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex. Um so we we know that we can affect uh in these preclinical studies the circuits that are involved in uh in those areas. Now, um dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex is a really fascinating integration to this because so that's the part of the brain where you can you can create worlds without end. It's a it's a beautifully uniquely human experience, this dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex.

Alex Carrasco 16:51

Is that where imagination happens?

Kyle Bills 16:53

It's absolutely part of where imagination happens. It's also part where uh you can create um fake you's.

Alex Carrasco 17:00

Oh.

Kyle Bills 17:01

So I think everybody's had this experience where like your your alter ego. Well, you lay down at night and you create a a fake you that relives all the experiences of the day.

Alex Carrasco 17:14

Okay.

Kyle Bills 17:14

And you say, Well, they said this, and then I should have said this, and then they would have said this. And then in 30 minutes, you can live out an entire lifetime in this part of your brain. And and and some of those end quite triumphantly. Uh, an unfortunate number of them end um with catastrophe and us dead alone in a ditch and addicted to something and everybody hates me, and I might as well give up and not great.

Alex Carrasco 17:39

Right.

Kyle Bills 17:39

Um, and so that in in the circuitry studies we've done is one of those areas that that starts to calm down.

Alex Carrasco 17:46

Oh wow. Uh we've done um so for like worst-case scenario people, it can be very helpful.

Kyle Bills 17:52

For we we have seen definitely some some case studies that have come out in in those scenarios. We're always a little cautious until we've run larger broad clinical trials. We yeah, uh we we don't want to suggest that it's a technology that's meant to replace all of the good things because that's not the way we see this. Um rather it's it's designed to kind of enhance and improve outcomes as good clinicians are employing, you know, good practices and the standard of care with that. But um, we've done neuropsych testing pre-post, looked at what happens with cognitive domains and and those associated with response inhibition and and negative affect. Um, we have definitely seen in those studies that that there's a a substantive change in those cognitive domains.

Alex Carrasco 18:36

Wow.

Kyle Bills 18:36

Uh over the course of time.

Alex Carrasco 18:37

That's so interesting.

Kyle Bills 18:38

Yeah.

Alex Carrasco 18:39

Yeah. And it just seems like obviously it took you, you know, almost a decade to develop this technology, but it seems like for me as a you know physician in my practice, it seems like a pretty low-hanging fruit. Like just sit on this stool 10 minutes every day. Yeah. And your anxiety can incre can can improve by what is it that you've seen? 60%?

Kyle Bills 19:01

And some of the trials in in those really particularly difficult scenarios, inpatient, yeah. And broadly, when we've looked at data where it's been implemented in clinics, I would say when when added to the standard of care, I think we're we're right about 45% increased reduction anxiety.

Alex Carrasco 19:18

That's amazing. Yeah, it was interesting. I sat on it um a couple of days ago. And normally when I go home and I I just kind of want to veg out, right? Most people I think could identify with wanting to veg out. And so sometimes I'll just scroll. But I had no desire to scroll. Yeah. Like it was wild.

Kyle Bills 19:37

Yeah.

Alex Carrasco 19:38

Just it didn't exist. Yeah, that didn't even want to do it.

Kyle Bills 19:41

It's it's a it's an interesting phenomenon, right? I think everybody's experienced that where you you pull out a phone, you know, you're death scrolling.

Alex Carrasco 19:47

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 19:48

And and there's almost this anxiety to get to the next thing.

Alex Carrasco 19:51

Yeah. You don't want to miss it.

Kyle Bills 19:52

Yeah. There's this impulse to kind of drive you to go to that next thing. And and many will report that. They'll they'll sit on that, and that that subtle kind of release of dopamine lets you just kind of let go.

Alex Carrasco 20:04

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 20:05

And and you go, hmm, I don't need that.

Alex Carrasco 20:08

That's amazing. Yeah. So I guess in the context of other addictions, whether it's um drugs or social media or shopping or binge eating or pornography, you know, all these different things that people deal with and they're very real issues, uh, do you think that this could be a very useful tool to help people kind of overcome?

Kyle Bills 20:31

Yeah. I mean, if if we if we use those kind of clinical trials that we've run in those those preclinical studies as kind of predictive things for how we're we're moving forward, uh, we certainly hope that that will be the case. I mean, that that's one of the goals of the development and continued research on this on this product, is that um it will we we're hoping that it's really going to support those brain areas that are involved in the the drive and the craving for some of those behaviors.

Alex Carrasco 20:59

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 20:59

So we're we're actively performing studies looking at everything from um sex addiction um all the way down through a variety of substance use disorders and and also eating disorders.

Alex Carrasco 21:10

Yeah. Because if you can modulate the craving, then you can choose different, right? Because you feel empowered, you don't feel like you're being dragged into the craving. That's right.

Kyle Bills 21:18

And that that's a very, that's a very dopaminergic type type thing, right? Is as those levels drop when one doesn't have access to to that reinforcer, it's part of what produces that that uh that drive and the craving that that comes with it. And it's kind of a, you know, a mentor of mine called it a scalar index of reward.

Alex Carrasco 21:39

Yeah. That's really fascinating.

Kyle Bills 21:42

Yeah.

Alex Carrasco 21:43

That is really, really, really fascinating. So how do you see it playing out in the future? Do you think that you you have a lot of clinics that are using it now, yes?

Kyle Bills 21:50

We we do. We've we've got it in in a good number of clinics that are that are that are utilizing it as kind of an adjunct to to standard of care. Um we're working with the NIH right now on a on a on some some larger scale clinical trials uh with the intent to to uh to to work towards some some clinical indications, yeah. You know, where we can we can hard talk about, you know, okay, hey, it's indicated for this. Uh right now we still rely pretty heavily on our preclinical studies and there's something that you guys have done with sleep latency.

Alex Carrasco 22:19

I think you guys are finding that it ink it decreases your sleep latency or in you know makes it makes you fall asleep quicker, right?

Kyle Bills 22:25

Yeah, some of those aspect of aspects of sleep are are are run through dopamine-dependent processes. So we did we published a pilot study uh looking at sleep latency um while using kind of these frequencies of of beat vibrations. And and sure enough, in the in that particular pilot study, it did it decreased sleep latency uh for those that were were attempting to fall asleep. So sleep latency is just the the the speed at which you lay down and can actually get to sleep.

Alex Carrasco 22:51

Right. And a lot of people just toss and turn or can take hours.

Kyle Bills 22:54

Yeah, yeah.

Alex Carrasco 22:55

Yeah.

Kyle Bills 22:55

So that's kind of exciting as well.

Alex Carrasco 22:57

I think for many, that's uh yeah.

Kyle Bills 22:58

We've talked to a lot of people that think, well, that boy, that's a big deal. Yeah, sleep's a little challenging.

Alex Carrasco 23:03

Yeah, that's wonderful. And then it's not something that you have to take or a medication. Yeah. So that's really exciting. So I guess tell us a little bit about about where people can find out more about your work, where they can learn about um the dopamine seat and how they can stay in touch with you and follow everything that you're doing.

Kyle Bills 23:20

Absolutely. So you can uh you can find us at neuronovaco.com. Um you can you can find a little bit about the chair. You're gonna find a lot of the the studies are are are published there so you can kind of see what preclinical work and what the what the studies are doing and how it's how it's developing towards those indications over time. Um we have um active research that's taking place um over at the the Norda College of Osteopathic Medicine in Provo, Utah. Um we are continuing to try to develop and and understand more about kind of these non-pharmacological interventions for for mental health. It's uh it's what we're passionate about.

Alex Carrasco 23:55

It's so needed. So, well, thank you so much for being on the show today. And I just I can't wait to see where where the future takes you.

Kyle Bills 24:02

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Alex Carrasco 24:04

Of course. Be sure to like and subscribe for more great podcast content and follow at Vibrant Longevity on Instagram to see what we're up to next. See you next time.