Undocumented Creatives: We Build the Brand but It Wasn’t Built For Us.

Undocumented creatives have helped shape the American brand but we’re only good for the brand until we speak up. Rarely are we trusted to shape our own narratives.

In this episode, America Castillo sits down with Miriam Frutos, an influencer marketer, to talk about what it means to be a DACA recipient working in media and marketing and navigating an American workforce that often benefits from our creativity while quietly pushing us out.

In the first half, Miriam shares her immigration story crossing the border at age nine, growing up undocumented in a predominantly white neighborhood, and pushing through community college, state college, and grad school with little support and a lot of persistence.

In the second half, the conversation shifts to the challenges of being let go from jobs where they were praised one moment and dismissed the next. Despite showing up with ideas, care, and commitment, both Miriam and America experienced what most undocumented creatives risk when being outspoken about your status.

Journalism taught them to question what they were told. Branding taught them that speaking up can cost us everything. 

Whether you’re a DREAMer, a creative of color, or someone genuinely trying to understand how the system works, you’ll want to hear this.

Help shape future episodes!

Leave a voicemail or shoot us a text. I actually wanna hear from you! I like constructive criticism.

Follow along on TikTok and Instagram: @la_ameriquita, @lachismosadelvalle

Help shape future episodes!

Leave a voicemail or shoot us a text. I actually wanna hear from you! I like constructive criticism. 

Follow along on social media.

IG: @lachismosadelvalleoffical, @la_ameriquita 

Tik Tok: @lachismosadelvalle

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:31

I saw that. I wanted to ask about that.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

What happened? Okay, first of all, maybe we should introduce you for a little bit. Hi Miriam. Okay. When I introduce myself in Spanish, you're America Castillo. So how do you introduce yourself in Spanish? Medium brutos. Medium. Yeah. Sorry, medium brutos.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yeah, like exactly like how you see it written. It's the same, the same thing. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, so this is gonna be a fun conversation because I think well you and I are experiencing literally the same thing, and we're in the same industry, and it's I think we're both being offended by this because everything right now is like changing and it's all over the place. So let's start with you. Tell us a little bit more about yourself. Why did you choose journalism? Like, I mean, I met you in my podcasting class. What made you want to be in this field?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

So I have always been a like firm believer that journalists are the watchdog of the people and that they have the power to shape public opinion. So, you know, growing up here in the US and what is it like 20 over 20 years that I've been here now, like I've seen how journalism has changed very slowly the way that immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, are depicted. And I wanted to be in a position where I was like, I want to be part of that narrative because I know that the way that our communities are being portrayed right now, that's not who we are. In fact, if you look at stats, most crimes get committed by US citizens. So it's like, where are you getting your information from? Like, please show me the numbers before you go and speak badly about my community.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, and I think one of the reasons you and I were able to kind of relate right away is because we're so we're we both have DACA, right? You still you still have DACA. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Um, when did you come to the United States?

SPEAKER_02 2:15

I was like nine years old when I got here. So, you know, uh I was a little I was a little child. Like I had no idea what what was going on when I came here. Yeah, do you remember any of it? I do remember like when my mom because my dad was already in the US. So we drove to like an airport and then we met a couple. It was a a man and a woman, and they were just like, Okay, you're gonna you and your sister are gonna go over with these with the with a couple, and then they're gonna drive you across and you'll meet with your dad like in a few hours. Um, honestly, compared to like other people's experiences, I want to say mine was a really positive one. Both the guy and the lady were extremely nice to us, you know, they were very caring, they were making sure that we were okay, not just physically, but like emotionally as much as they could, reassuring us, like, you know, it'll be okay. You're gonna meet your dad in a few hours. We were traveling alongside with the baby, so I can only imagine what that mom felt, like having to give up her baby to like two strangers. But overall, it was like I don't want to say it was a nice experience because I still have a lot of negative emotions towards that because of what I did see like going across. You see, all of these crosses, which I came to find out later were of people that had died crossing the border, and I'm just like, how is how is there so much death? And like no one stopped to look at the bigger picture and be like, what can we do to prevent this? Like, how can we facilitate? You always hear come the legal way, but like, have you tried you know making that a a possibility? Um, so it was it was uh a mix of emotions, it was good, but it was also bad because of what I remember seeing. And I brought you asked, but where where's your family from? So we're from Sawayo Michocan, which is you know, I l I love the food. That's that's the one thing that I'm just like I love that food.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

And something that was well, but that was a dumb question. I'm gonna ask the same question that everybody asks me. Oh, have you ever gotten a chance to go back? And I was like, sir. I just explained my status. When you crossed the border, did you ever go through like a bit of a silent phase, like where you just didn't talk?

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah, so we actually crossed overnight. So we have been given like the alias, we were posing as this couple's uh three younger children, and the lady was like, Hey, like, you know, we gave you guys the the alias, however, it would be preferred if you just like pretended to be asleep, which made it super easy because we were crossing in the middle of the night. So, like ultimately, I ended up just falling asleep. I remember like roughly waking up while we were close, like a phone had rang, and it was the other mom from the baby, and she was just like, Hey, how's my baby? The lady's like, Your baby's fine. Um, you know, I'm I do have to let you go because we're approaching the actual crossing. So like I don't want to be on the phone. And when she said that, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go back to sleep. I closed my eyes and I was like, Okay, there's I I have no business being awake right now. So it was like it was quiet, but it was it was also at night, so it felt somewhat normal.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yeah. And at what moment did you realize like what was happening? Like, okay, this is what's happening. I'm crossing the border, or did or was that not even crossing, like, were you not even aware of what was happening?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

No, see, I didn't I didn't know why we were doing this. I knew we were moving to a different country, but I didn't understand why it had to be that way. Like I could I couldn't understand why we couldn't just all get on a bus or get on a plane and like drive over and then meet my dad. It was just weird to me that it had to be done in that way. So it was a little bit scary, but I was like, I was really excited to see my dad after, you know, like uh about a year and a half of not seeing him. So that was the thing on my mind. I was just excited to see my dad.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, no, I don't think any of us are kind of aware. What about your first night in the US? Like, you remember your first night in the US when you finally came here? Do you remember that feeling?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

So I think we got here around like 3 a.m. So you know, we drove to this person's home, which was a beautiful, beautiful home. The lady was like, Hey, feel free to like go into one of the bedrooms if you feel more comfortable. If you want to stay out here, we're gonna wait for your dad. Um, I just ended up staying out with them, and then a few hours later, like my dad shows up. And at that point, it's like we're all we're and I'm sorry, I'm like, I'm tearing up right now. We're all in tears at that point. It was it was just a very, very emotional moment. You know, the the couple kind of stepped out and they just let my dad and us have our moment of just reconnecting with each other, and then afterwards they were like, Okay, well, here's the remaining, because basically, like they paid half up front, and then my dad handed over the remaining half for us to be there. Um, at that point, we were just I was I just remember being really sleepy, but like being excited that I was there. We drove over to my aunt's house, and then um we had to wait like another 24 hours for my mom to cross because she didn't cross with us. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

I get it. I same. I well mine was like I just crossed the little my mom was already here, but um that's similar little baby similar stories. What was the okay, so then you got here and what was your what do you feel like your experience growing up in the United States has been like, especially you did you grow up in the valley?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Um I grew up outside of the valley in Burbank, so it was I mean, it still is a predominantly white neighborhood. So I was out of my entire like when I got here, I got here when I was nine. By the time it was time to enroll in school, I was already ten. So I enrolled in uh fifth grade. It was really tough. Like that first year was probably the toughest year I've ever experienced because I didn't have anybody else that spoke Spanish other than my sister, but because she's like four years younger than me, we weren't, you know, we were we didn't even have racists together. So at first I was the only Spanish speaker in my entire like school, not even just like class, well, outside of my sister. And they would send me to like ELD classes, which is you know, to like learn English. Um, I don't think those classes helped a lot or at all. Uh the lady was actually really mean.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

I didn't know. I was like, what is what's happening here?

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Yeah, so it's like eventually two more kids who one of them was also undocumented, I can't I came to find out later, enrolled in that same school, and we kind of just I I kind of just started hanging out with them because it was like, I don't I can't talk to the rest of the kids. And that's just kind of how that first year played out. Towards the end of the year, I remember understanding the language but not being able to speak. And I recall this because it was like promotion or graduation from like fifth grade, and I had gone to get like, you know, those body con dresses that you know fit like not tight, but like, you know, so sort of tight. Um, so I remember we were getting in line to go to lunch, and then the teacher that I had in fifth grade, my dad's 10. She had no business making this comment to a 10-year-old. Yeah. And she was like, girls, don't eat too much because your bellies are gonna pop out of your dresses. Oh my god. And I was just like, ma'am. Like, you know, back then, the the first my first reaction was like, suck it in. Yeah. Like that was my reaction, like, oh my god, suck it in. I was also like a heavier child growing up. But now that I think about it as an adult, I'm like, okay, that that was totally uncalled for as a fifth grader. You had no business making me feel that whole body.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I know, that was such a crazy time. Like just growing up, I just feel like everybody didn't have a filter when it came down to anybody's weight comments. Yeah. It was the same. Sorry, somebody was walking. Someone was walking and I got distracted at the same time, making sure that they didn't hear. What was I gonna say? I got distracted. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Okay, because that was gonna be my next okay, different time because that was that was leaning into my next question. Okay, you're a little bit older than me, right? Like not that far, but a little bit older, which means you hold on, how do I write this? I got DACA like right when I turned 17, which I feel like I got lucky because it was like one of those things where it was like, oh my god, I'm getting out of high school and finally get my word permit, so I don't really have to deal with all the legal complications that come after high school. But I am assuming because of the time and the year that you may have had to deal with a little bit of that. Yeah. Can you explain like the differences of what you've seen? How much the conversation of DACA has changed from your perspective? Because it it was a different time. Like, you know, the there was a bite, a bunch of kids who got caught up uh when DACA passed in 2012, and it everybody thinks, like, oh, but it DAC is just like this, everybody can get it. And it's you know, there were some people that the ages they just didn't fit. From your point from your perspective, how have you seen DACA in the conversation grow in the media?

SPEAKER_02 10:38

So, firstly, I think people don't understand that there's a lot outside of like law-abiding issues, there's a there were a lot of requirements. I mean, you had to have some sort, you had to have graduated, if I'm not correct, from uh US high school. Uh, you have to have proof that you had been reciting here before a specific year. I don't recall the year off the top of my head. And I believe you had to be under 27, which, you know, as somebody who's about to turn 32, I feel like that's a really like why are you cutting people off at 27? Actually, why is there a cutoff year? As long as people meet the requirements, they should be able to apply, in my opinion. Because again, we're trying to do things the right way. So when I turned 18, DACA was not a thing yet. I turned 18 in like 2011. So I graduated high school, and obviously, you know, like you start thinking, like, well, what am I gonna do with my life? I went and got myself a fake green card. Um and I just want to like for the record, this fake green card and social security is not stealing anybody's identity. They are two separate things. This is a set of numbers that does not exist and does not belong to anyone. So just for the record, yeah, for the record, you guys. For the record, guys, it is not the same as the identity theft. Yeah. So, you know, I went and got, and that was a very like weird process because it's one of those, like, if you know you know, like people will be like, Hey, do you need a passport photo? And then be like, Yeah, I need a passport photo. And then they'd give you like a keyword where you go into like a random store, and then they take you to the bath and you get a picture, and you know, after a few hours, there you go, you had a green card and a social security number. So, you know, that's how that's how I started working. Like, I'm not I'm not gonna lie and say I've never done that. Like, yeah, I know, and everyone's what I had to do. So the weird thing for me was that you know, after I got that, I was able to get a job at like pizza restaurants, and then 2012 came around when I got my DACA. So it was so weird for me to have to go up to my employer and be like, Hey, I need you to change my social security number. I actually don't have a green card. But the fact that he was like so chill about it kind of told me like it was one of those where it's like you it's unspoken, but you know. Yeah. Like you know clearly these are real documents. Yeah. Um, which you can add on to the the current climate right now. It's like everybody's going out after people who are working with false documents or no documents, but like nobody's really persecuting the employers. And I'm not talking about your mom and pop shop, I'm talking about those like multimillion dollar companies, like, you know, hotels, farmers. Like, yeah, you're taking their employees away, but like that's it. There are no consequences. So it just kind of adds on where it's like now that we have this permit, you know, we've been able to get different jobs that are uh better paying, where we don't have to face harassment or as much discrimination, like you know, discrimination is still a thing, but we have a protection against it. And I kind of think that's kind of where the conversation shifted. Before it used to be just like, oh, I allow these kids to work. Now it's just like these kids are, or adults now, you know, in our case, these kids are part of the economy. They're adults in healthcare, in teaching, in all sorts of different jobs. Like they're business owners. I did my thesis and I interviewed about like 10 business owners on their journey, and they some of them started out as undocumented and still are undocumented. Others, you know, got married or got citizenship through some other kind of way. But it's like ultimately it's it's a huge stepping stone. Like that guy is and has been a huge stepping stone, and the fact that there are people that aren't able to get it right now, it it's just beyond concerning.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, no, and you because that was my next topic was college and grad school. It's not easy. Like, I think everybody assumes, especially because I I feel like usually it's the media that like is always presenting, like, oh, all of these dreamers are getting all these scholarships. At least that's how it like from I'm assuming from the white perspective, it looks like if we're getting all these scholarships just kind of handed out to us, and we know that it doesn't work that way. What was your experience getting into college? You know, when it came to the finances, when it came to like the support system, because we usually need a bitter support system. What was your experience with all of that?

SPEAKER_02 14:43

So, because of the cost, I actually started out in community college. I started out at LABC. For the first year and a half, I had no idea that there was any sort of financial relief available to us. Anytime I would ask about it, they they were just like, sorry, kid, we don't know how to help you. Um, so I was paying out of pocket. I was working full-time, making like at most, I was making like eight dollars and fifty cents, nine dollars, and using all of that money to pay for a few classes at my community college. It was until the last semester that I was there that the counselor was like, okay, well, you're about to graduate. Are you planning to attend a four-year? And then I kind of explained my situation. He was like, Oh no, don't worry. He's like, go to the Dream Center, they're located at this location, they can help you out. And it was then that I found out, like, oh, I can get some sort of help. And it's not help, like, they're not actively like depositing thousands of dollars into my account. What they're doing is they're just waiving the tuition fee. That's all I qualified for at that point. Which, if you think about it, is not a lot for somebody making like $9 an hour. But it's still it still made a huge difference because then I I would only have to pay for the books. So then eventually I transitioned into CSUN for my bachelor's. And I just up, they were like, hey, you have two years to complete the program, even though our program was like two and a half years. I just kind of had to take extra classes to make sure that I didn't uh run out of that aid because they were only gonna waive my fees for those two years. And that's that's how I was able to get my education. But like everything book wise or any other materials that were needed, that that was expense, that was out of my pocket to pay for. And the thing that changes is when you get to grad school, that's no longer a thing. So for my grad school, I was able to get my fees waived for the first semester because I had been unemployed because of COVID. Okay. So they were able to waive it. But for the second, third, and fourth semester, I paying out of pocket. I had to take out a loan during my last semester that I'm paying back, which you know it's really tough right now because I'm unemployed. We'll get to that. So it's like, you know, there it's not, it's not what certain media outlets paint it out to be. We're not getting all these thousands of dollars and all of this help. We're getting very like minimal help that somewhat allows us to enter these spaces that are not really meant for us or were not designed for people like us to come into. It's just giving us a little bit of an opportunity to better ourselves and better our lives for not just us but uh future generations.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yeah, and then do you feel like you had enough resources in high school to help you with getting into college or like just in like even in college, do you feel like the people that were supposed to be helping you were like helping you? Like I know, like for example, like for me, it did take until I went to the dream center for me to actually start getting more help. I feel like when I was going to other counselors, it I wasn't being taken as seriously, or it was more like, oh, you know, and this. And then finally someone also redirected me, hey, the dream center. And then I was able to get help. Do you did you go through that like either in high school, in community college, where you felt like, okay, I'm getting frustrated because I'm not like I don't feel like I'm getting like the right direction and to find on someone.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

So I actually took a a long break after high school from college. I I did not go directly into college. When I went and asked my high school counselor, I was like, hey, naturally, I wanted to be a nurse. I don't know why. I was like, I'm gonna be a nurse. Uh so I went and asked her about like, you know, what are some things like every other 12th grader was going in there during that time? It was like, okay, what colleges are you gonna go to? What do you have an idea of what do you want to do with your life? And I just went in there and she was very blunt about it. She was just like, Well, I don't really see you going into college. Um, like people like you don't really go into college, and that kind of just like she made she made the choice for me right then and there. I wasn't given the choice of I wasn't even told, like, hey, you can go, it's gonna be extra difficult, but you can go. Like, she had made it clearly that I wasn't gonna go. So after that, you know, I just I didn't go. I just started working minimum wage jobs, and it wasn't until a few years later that I was talking to a former manager, and he was like, No, he's like, you shouldn't let that stop you. He was actually like my former manager at that pizza restaurant was the person that it really encouraged me to just get back in there. He's like, just go get some information, start with a few classes, like you know, you could do this. I believe in you. So it's like I had no support in high school in regards to higher education.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yeah, no, I always bring that up because I know that there's I'm sure there's a ton of other, you know, Latinos in high school who probably also feel like, hey, wait a minute, I I also want to go to school, but where is the help?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

All right, real quick. This is usually the part of the podcast where you share an ad, but I don't have any sponsors yet, and I don't know if I ever will because of my status. Kidding, but also not really. Anyways, just a quick heads up. There's a high-pitched noise towards the end of the episode. It does eventually go away, but I wanted to acknowledge it. I'm working with what I got, just an iPad and one piece of software. Thanks for your patience, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the show.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Okay, so now let's get into it because you recently just graduated and then lost your job like the next day. And I lost my job. So now we can actually get into losing a job during this time and how we feel because that's how we know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

How are you doing? I forgot to do a check-in. How are you doing? Oh, I mean, honestly, like I I feel like I just got hit with a brick. So it went from being like the highest of highs, you know, walking across stage to like the lowest of lows of being unemployed. So about two weeks prior to me being let go, my colleague, because she was also let go, she was like, Hey, I want to start an agency and I've seen your work, and like if I got some clients, would you be interested in helping me out with like doing social media work? And I was like, sure, I was like, you know, I could always use a little bit extra money. So she started this agency, right? She was like, Let me get a picture of you so I could put it, like, you know, for for reference for people. And then I don't know how HR department found out about it. Um, and that's the reason they let us go. They were like, it's a conflict of interest, and I'm just sitting here, like, how is it a conflict of interest? You're a multimillion dollar company and hospitality. I'm one person with like $2,000 in my bank account. Like, it's not the same, right? And the reason I say that today, if it feels like I got hit with a break, is after we got let go, I applied for unemployment here in California. We're lucky to have that. So I was like, it's not the same, it's like 50% of what you would normally be making. But I was like, it's something, right? I got off the call with the unemployment department and they were like, hey, you actually you got denied. Your job is saying that you were uh it's not breaking company policy, it's uh it's some other thing. Let me see. I have it again. Both my boss and I are for misconduct. So he's like, Yeah, because you guys got let go for misconduct. And I was like, Well, can you explain that a little bit? I didn't work on company time on any personal projects. Uh we currently have no personal projects. So like there's no there's no income. I didn't use any of their tech. I didn't use any of their equipment. Like, I have my own laptop, my own phone, my own, you know, selfie light. So, like, where's this coming from? They're like, Well, you know, at this point, like the decision has been made. Um, you're gonna get a letter in the mail, and then you're welcome to apply for what is that called? An appeal. And then, like, once you file for an appeal, it'll be sent to a judge instead of the unemployment office. So I guess that the person that made the choice and saw us apparently being an issue was somebody at the unemployment office, which not to throw any shade, but I'm like, how are is how am I like qualified to make that choice? Or like, you know, anybody just like that, like what are their qualifications? So, like now I'm having to wait for this appeal to see if. They would give me unemployment because based on them it was misconduct. But I'm like, I never signed any non-competes. And in California, non-competes are not even a thing. Yeah. Like they they have banned them a while back. Deep down to my core, I feel like this was just a reason to get rid of me.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Well, real quick, first th those who may not know what a non-compete is.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

What is a non-compete? So a non-compete basically says that if I work for company A doing marketing, I cannot go work for company B and do marketing because they're competing against each other. And I brought up the point that because this is a very large hotel around 500 rooms, I know of multiple people who work at the hotel as an admin or a check-in agent, and then they go and do the same thing either at the hotel across the street, because my friend used to work there, or they'll go to another property in another town, like 15-20 minutes. So I'm like, if this is truly an issue, then they're about shouldn't half of their employees get fired? Because most of them do have two jobs doing the same thing just at another property. And that's when the guy goes, he's like, Well, yeah, that's why you have to take it to an appeals court and like actually see a judge.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

So I'm like, Great. Oh my god. Ugh, all of these things. And you you work in influencer marketing, right? Yes, I do. With everything going on right now, like how what do you like about influencer marketing? What frustrates you about influencer marketing? And where do you see the future of influencer marketing now that you're gonna start your own agency?

SPEAKER_02 23:32

So honestly, like that's not something I had ever thought about. It was just started doing it and uh for my former employer, and that's where my boss was like, wow, you're really great at this. So it's a lot of just relations, like going back and forth, emailing back and forth. Honestly, it's not something that was in my plans. Again, I really wanted to be a journalist, but it's it's really tough in LA. Um a little fish in a big pond, and this was an opportunity that I was like, you know what? Uh let me take it. Like, I see potential in this. Also, Dhaka being on the line, being your own boss is really, you know, like that's that's your your only option if if Daka gets killed. You know, that's so true. Sponsor people, like that's another thing. Like, nobody wants to sponsor. Um, my former, again, my former manager had asked this company, mind you, I was at this company for over 10 years. I had never been written up, I had never had any verbal warnings. I had never like so much ass left a dirty cup on a table. And when she was like, Hey, I really want to sponsor Miriam, like she's really great, they were like, No. And then, like, now being fired, it just it brought up a lot of emotions after like I see why Gen Z reacts the way they do when they say, like, oh, you know, fuck companies. Use my my language, you can blur that out.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

No, I'm like, but it's like it makes sense though.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Cause like and like as a millennial, yeah, I was told, like, you know, be loyal to the company, stay with one company, like it's gonna pay off. And not only did I get fired for like trying to make extra money, but then they went and denied my unemployment claim because they felt that that was misconduct. It really shows you. And I have been going into this company every day and hearing managers be like, we value you, we love you, you're great, you're amazing. We're lucky to have you on our team. And it's like, I was nominated this this uh past year for like employee of the year. Yeah. Oh, congratulations. Yeah, so it's like where is all that? Yeah, wow. Yeah, where's that love?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

No, that no, I feel the same way. When you voicemail like a couple weeks ago, and I remember like listening to it, and I was like, wait, are we dealing with the same thing right now? Because how is it that like we're going through it? Because in my case, really quick, I started working as a bartender, and they were like, Oh, well, by the way, like the head brewer and the bar manager were really emphasizing that they were not happy with the way that their marketing manager was handling their account. I was already taking a marketing class during that time, and like, you know how in class sometimes you're just like, Cut this page and see what you know. So I was just like, Oh yeah, like, you know, your page is one of those kinds of pages that I kind of like look through in class and just nothing, literally nothing serious. I was just me going through like every page I knew, you know, doing my homework assignment and just casually like talking about this at the bar or being like, Yeah, like I'm taking a marketing class right now because when I got hired, I was in the process of like ending that marketing class. And so through conversation with the head brewer and the bar manager, they like find out that I am that I'm an artist somewhat. And so uh they're like, Oh, well, are you like good at editing? And I'm like, Yeah, I know how to edit. Like, I'm not I personally editing is not like my I don't know how you all do it, but like editing is like not my thing. Like I know you have to really sit down and be like focused, right? But like I could do it, you know what I mean? And I'm like, yeah, I know how to do it, I know how to do that. I can construct like already tell me blah blah blah. Like I have the ideas, but I'm also at the same time, like I'm the same way. Like I didn't sign up to be a marketer, you know what I mean? I went into this field. My goal was like, yes, obviously I want to be there for the people and everything, but also it was like I don't know, want to work in entertainment at the same time. And I know that it is very common for people in journalism to end up, you know, going into writing or the development side of entertainment, which is usually what had always been my goal. And so I already like went into this company, like letting them know, like, hey, I'm here. One day I do want to go back, but at the same time, like that doesn't seem realistic for a really long time, especially have no money, you know. I'm like, so I'm here, uh I'm willing to work with them. And honestly, I'm the kind of person that that like damn, once you hire me and I start working for you, like I will give you like my all, right? But along the way, just with everything that I have gone through in my very short 29 years, I had learned just how quickly, like, like you said, you know, you can work for a company and give them your all, and then at the end of the day, they're just gonna toss you out, right? And I'm coming back from like a leave of absence from working with like big corporation that gave me kissy for other reasons, and I am slowly kept making my way back into like the workforce, you know, because I did take a leave of absence that was a while, and uh so I'm back, I'm feeling like okay, bartending is probably okay right now. This is a good slow pace to get my foot back into the door. They along the way are like help us with their marketing, and I'm like, sure. So it gets a little tricky because I would say that I still don't really know my work, you know. So when it came down to being like, okay, they're asking for like pictures of example of my work to see how they were like and everything. And eventually I get down and I'm sitting with the business manager and they're like, okay, how can you help? And I'm presenting this thing. But as I'm talking to them, I'm starting to notice that it's being framed, like I'm the one coming up to them and asking, can I help you? When in reality, it was the head brewer and the bar manager that were like asking me for help. Like, we don't, they were the ones that were complaining about their current social media manager. I didn't want to overstep because I'm like, hey, she's the social media manager, this is her job, you know, like she should be the one doing all of this. So I feel like when I came in, I ended up just coming like more of a consultant and being like, actually, well, this and this and this, and this is how I feel this could work. They, you know, at first loved it and were same thing. Oh my god, you are amazing, you're the best, blah blah blah. Like I was being raised. And then I don't know what happened. Like, I just went into like a functional like freeze, or like I don't know if it was imposter syndrome or something, but eventually, like I just couldn't, like, not that I couldn't do my work, but I had realized, like, oh my god, I don't know if my partnership with this brewery is gonna work out because the head brewer and I think very, very differently, especially when it comes to content. And so he's a little much older, different generation, and on millennial, which I want to say is like perfect for right now, but like we were not seeing eye to eye with certain things, right? And I was like, Okay, this is gonna get a little messy. And I was already kind of afraid to be working with him just based on the way he was talking about his current social media manager. I was like, okay, this is gonna be a person that like I really have gonna have to work extra hard and please because he's not gonna, he's gonna be very picky about the work and everything. And so maybe I overthought the entire situation. So then we're working, and then one way that I realized I don't know if we're gonna like the I know I wanted content was for example, Super Bowl. I wanted to do something with like our three dollar beers that we had and use sort of like Kendrick Lamar, because at that time what was trending during the Super Bowl was the not like us thing. So I was like, oh, that would be like a nice sound or something, but then I was like, mmm, maybe not because this is not the crowd that actually likes Kendrick Lamar. I've I've heard them talk, you know? And then as I'm like hearing them talk and trying to create more ideas, I'm like, oh, this is not working because I don't appeal to the white audience. Like, I don't know. So now I'm realizing that I'm finding my niche in something completely different. Like I'm finding my niche in either like the strategy part or the consulting part, but like like I'm basically in this process, like finding what I'm good at and what I'm not good at, right? And I am trying to communicate with the business manager, like, hey, I'm really sorry if if I'm not doing a good job or if it isn't that. And for the most part, they'd be like, oh, don't worry about it. Oh, like you're doing great. And I'm like, okay, maybe I'm just overthinking. So it gets to the point where there's three beers, it's just problem after problem. And one of them, I didn't even, I wasn't even that I didn't even cause that problem. One of them was the name of the beer that he was making for February. It was called Cherry Poppin' Daddies. It was like some sort of like very star goes the beer, right? And see, this is where like I, it was my first, that was my first kind of like beer project. So I I didn't even catch the name, right? I just went straight to like, okay, let's just start like filming and doing content for it. And then somebody, somebody else who used to work with us was like, hey, that name probably you should take it down. That this person, by the way, is white, and I have to say this because I just feel like the bar was really emphasizing on the how I was this like whoa, liberal Mexican. I was like, um, this girl is like, hey, maybe we should change the name of the beer. And so they're like, Yeah, you're right, we should change the name of the beer. So then the next beer is like a softball theme beer, and the girl names it after a saying from the mariner's like spokesperson or something, right? And then they're telling me, like, oh, we want original audio for this content, blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, well, there's gonna be like legal issues, copyright issues, so like let me at least make sure that we get some sort of like permission or something, right? I don't know. I'm also like overthinking this entire thing, and so then I just send out like a quick permission to use content, email, whatever, just to make sure that we're good, right? And then I walk into work and the head brewer and all of his friends are like standing there, and the head brewer like basically is like, I don't think you should have done that. We're gonna get a season to cease letter, and now we're not gonna be able to promote it. And I'm like, okay, and I'm already not doing well, so I start like bawling my eyes out because I'm like, I don't know what to do. I feel like if I do my job, then they're like, you're doing too much, but then if I don't do my job, then they're telling me you're not doing enough. And honestly, I'm not getting like paid any extra for this. I'm just I just ended up going with the negotiation of like $18 an hour because I felt like I was entry-level when it came to content creatings. Um eventually I was like, you know what? Like, I felt very embarrassed in the situation. Like, I don't even know if I really want to work with you guys at this point, but I'm still gonna push. Um, I'm still gonna try. Their next beer release is a Cinco de Mayo beer, right? And I'm like, this is so exciting. This is my time to shine. I am Mexican, I am from Puebla. We could do something super fun with it. Head brewer is like, yeah, except it's not really a Mexican beer, it's not Canadian hops, New Zealand hops, and I'm like, okay, we're gonna have to make fun of this. Cause in my head, it's like kind of ironic, because like Canada's all about like French and Mexico and Puebla. And I'm like, this is kind of funny, like, we should probably make fun of it. They didn't like that. And I was like, you guys have to learn how to make fun of yourselves at one point. And I was they were like, no, like they basically felt like I was calling them, like, you know, these spaces people. And I'm like, well, if you're not, then you're not. But along the way in the process, I had been telling, like, I didn't want to tell guests my status, but when we would get into deep conversations, or they like they would be like, no, like, why weren't why aren't you traveling? I'm like, well, this is it. And if I felt comfortable enough to like talk to them, I'm like, okay, this is somebody who I can like talk to probably help me in the future or something if needed, I don't know. Yeah, it just turned into a disaster. Eventually, some of the bar managers' friends were like, friend, the head brewer's friends would like try to come in and intimidate me or question me more about my status, that it made me feel like, ooh, okay, maybe I did like I made a mistake of telling the wrong like crowd here. Like, but I learned my lesson for sure. But it just turned into a whole mess. And then when it came down to the Cinco de Mayo beer, I was just like, it is I get it, you guys want to market this beer, and we can do it. But if we're gonna do it, I think that this is how we could do it. I think it'd be really fun. And they didn't like it, and we're like, no, we're not. And then after that, everything just kind of went downhill. Like I could just tell that the tensions were there and that we weren't clashing. They just felt like I was just too political for them. And in my head, I was like, Well, this beer was also accidentally political, so I do feel like this beer and also Cinco de Mayo is like very serious to me right now because during this Trump era, like, what the heck? It's just a lot. And so eventually I we've just been going back and forth on a lot of things, and we went on a trip, I came back, and then they were like, Oh yeah, you just didn't need expect pinches. We're we're gonna let you go. Which sucks because I had like a whole plan of like, okay, actually I realized I don't really want to work at the bar, but I do want to do more things behind the scenes, and I had a plan and a structure because they had two spots, and with the market research, I was like, wait, we could go, I have something, but never mind. Oh my god, I'm sorry. No, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

No, but yeah, that's that's insane. And honestly, like coming from a big company that's run by a lot of older people, it's a very common thing. You're gonna clash. Like my my former boss was Gen Z, and she would always, and I would see those comments like over here, those conversations where she'd be like, No, we need to do this, and they'd fight her back, be like, No, we don't want to do this because of XYZ. And it's like, okay, we're the ones with the experience, and you're not wanting to listen. And then when we do things your way and they fail, you get upset at the marketing girls.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Yeah, marketing is like changing, and I understand that you guys don't want certain things pushed on that, or I get it, like you're like, Well, we're just an older generation, we're not gonna look into and I'm like, Yeah, I uh I understand that, so let me work with you guys for a little more while I try to figure out a way to get this as well. Like, I think they think it's so simple that just host it, just do this, just do that, and then they wonder, well, why isn't the strategy working? Well, why isn't the sales going up? Well, why? And I'm like, Well, because it's not, and I'm seeing them do this mistake already. Like, by the way, after they decided, like, oh, it just let's just embarrass her and tell her that it was a bad idea to reach out to the mariners, they ended up scoring a deal with the mariners, anyways, for them to like brew a beer with their pitcher. I meant to say catcher. So I was like, all of that, you guys were stressed out. We literally caught all of that, and then you guys end up with this contract, and then you fire me when you guys sign the contract because I don't fit your image. Allegedly. I know you guys told me that it was because I didn't fit expectations, but the day before I they uh let me go, I was listening to the head brewer talking about how he was like looking to hire people and how he was looking to hire people that like more of his imagery and stuff for the brewery. Allegedly. And that was kind of the thing that would piss me off about the head brewer, because I'm like, this isn't your car, this is not your brewery. You are the head brewer, but you do not own this place, you know? And also reviews say that your beer sucks and that people only come here for the people. I was the people, so you know, and so I don't know what to tell you. But at the same time, I was like very happy because I was I could just feel myself, like my creativity like draining and just being like, oh my god, these people are not understanding. They think art is one thing, and they don't they think, oh my gosh, you think so political, but like literally sports is political, art is political, music is political, and having to fucking fight with them on the ichtunes all the time over like music, oh I don't like your music, so I'm just gonna and that's like not even with me, it was just with other guests too, and it's like just let them enjoy their music too. Like, oh my god, they're paying for this, and like you guys are just I can go on and on and then there's more, but it's like I don't know. My other question with you is like, are you and I know we only have 10 minutes or right now, but like, do you feel frustrated with like journalism and influencing right now? Like, what are what are your all your thoughts with all of that right now?

SPEAKER_02 38:10

I have a lot of thoughts on that, actually. Okay, first of all, the whole like Trump administration being like we're gonna open up the the space to like influencers to come and like be the ones asking the questions. Again, no shade onto the influencers like you do you, boo, but these are people who get paid to promote a product and say it's my favorite and it's good. There's no objectivity in that, in my opinion. They don't have the necessary skills to verify facts, which is something that's very embedded to us as journalists. Um you have to verify, like, you can't just take everything at face value and assume it's right. You have to do your research and make sure. So it's like I personally like, yes, influencers are great for like product marketing, for experiences, um, you know, to promote. Like as an advertisement source, they're amazing. They got their stuff down, like kudos to them. Like, they put a lot of effort into their work. As journalists, I think that they should be kept separate. I and I get it. They're like, oh, well, we're trying to like appeal to the younger audience. Okay, that can be simply done. Like, just hire newer people in all of these news agencies. Yeah, like you don't necessarily have to source from influencers, but they're a lot easier to manipulate than journalists ever will be. So that's that's where I stand on that. And again, influencers are great for advertisement, for marketing, like things like that. Amazing. But as far as like hardcore news goes, especially during this time, I do think that they don't really have a place. If they came from like a journalist background, great. Yeah, by all means, like you know, I I know at least one influencer who works for the New York Times. Like, she does both. She does the New York Times and then she does her influencer stuff. Her, great. She has the background, she has a track record of being able to produce accurate stories. So it's just like you can't let everybody in there just because they have a following.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah, no, I agree, especially because so one of the another influencer I feel like has done a great job at like when he started off, he was more of a comedian influencer and then actually took the time to get some sort of journalism degree, background certificate. Oh my god, Shay Ger Guerrero Guevara. Yeah, I love him. Yeah, that's why I really follow him. And I only say this because I've seen, especially here in Seattle, other like Seattle content creators that are, you know, getting bigger here, especially in the line community, who, you know, and I love that, are announcing where the protests are happening, where it's gonna happen, and all of this. And then some people in the comments will be like, Oh my god, you're doing the great journalism work, and it's like, okay, but you're not out there. And I saw, and I know because I saw them when I was at the protest. Actually, why wasn't I not TMZ? I swear to God, because I had the perfect video. But I was at the protest and somebody like screamed out the influencer's name, and the influencer was just at the corner, like, kind of like just like chilling, and everybody was like, dude, like you're on here saying, like, oh, come on here, come on here, and you weren't even like protesting with us. In my head, I was like, okay, I know he's he's probably at work because he did say he had like a nine to five, but that's where I'm coming in, where I'm saying, like, the influencers are just announcing and then just going and taking the content and then posting it. Whereas the reporters are like, okay, let me interview this person, let me go here, let me try to do that. And it's like there's a little more extra work that goes into it than just this is where it's gonna be, and this is the stuff. And it's like, I actually do appreciate that that all of that is happening and that and that you guys are doing that. That does not qualify someone enough to be like, I'm a journalist, you know. And even I have a hard time being like, I'm a journalist because I'm like, I still have so much fortune that I need to be doing, you know, to consider myself a journalist. But it's such a weird time, be a content creator and journalist.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Yeah, no, it's uh it's again I think we all have a place that we can fit into. Like that that's not the problem. Like, yeah, influencers are great for the dispersing information because they have a much larger social following than most journalists do. But again, their reach is only or facts that they're if they're facts. The information that they're spreading is only so much. You still need somebody to go in there and like talk to them. Like, you know, you've seen in in LA how it's been for the past week. Uh a while back, I had the pleasure to meet with Carmen Marquez. She used to be a Telemundo journalist, so now she's independent. She's been out there, she has been out there with another person, and her producer actually got shot by a rubber bullet while they were just recording, and she has a press class, she shows that she's part of the press, even as an independent journalist. So those are the people that are actually, you know, being out there, putting their putting their lives honestly at danger because things can go wrong really, really quickly. And actually gathering the facts and trying to speak not just to the protesters, but like you also have to get the other side of the story, you know, like try to talk to the agents if they if they want to share their thoughts. They might not want to share their thoughts. So it's like we all have a place that we can fit into. It's just like you gotta find and you gotta find where you fit. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

And then yeah, and then maybe right now would be a good time for us to work together and not try to ping each other. That's what I'm seeing a lot on TikTok, and that's why I like have to leave and be like, you know what, I can't read these comments, not can I look at these right now because I it's like frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

That's exactly what this administration wants. They want that divide between every single community. It's not just like between brown and black people, it's like between everybody. Because if we're united, like we're unstoppable. Because at the end of the day, a lot of us are facing the same thing. They love to say, like, well, this immigrant took your job. When in reality, it's like, no, this massive corporation wants to underpay someone. You're not gonna want to get underpaid as a citizen because you know you're you is supposed to pay more. So what do they do? They go and pick somebody else out of wherever that doesn't have their papers, and then they're like, Hey, do you want to do this for seven dollars? And they'll be like, Yeah, why? Because they need the money. So at the honestly, at this point, everything everything from content to like working is political. And if I were to think of something, it's like it would be really hard for me to work with someone currently that has that's okay with the situation that we have going on. I think that this is not a moment to stay quiet. I think this is a moment to speak up, and if that you know, breaks Working relationship, you know what? I'm not even sorry. Like, so be it. Because as you mentioned, the brewery, I I would not take them on a client. I think I would have realized and be like, you know what? It's not that I'm not a fit for you, it's that you're not a fit for me. Your values don't align with mine.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

And I and I literally, honestly, I said that through the social media manager when we were getting into it. I was like, don't even worry about it, girl. The company's values, they don't even align with me. Honestly, it was so perfect. It was like that brewery was just the perfect embodiment of like how America works and how they like to pin the Latinos against each other because it just so happened in the social media was manager was also Latina, and then we got into it, and then I was like, this, I can't allow this to happen because I know what's happening. And it's the white man that's trying to make us fight, and it should not be like that. And I've been able to say it because no, I what I was expecting is for the company to be like, okay, this is what we're gonna do, this is what we want to offer you for your work at least, and then we can start the negotiation. Instead, it was like I feel new, I'll just take hourly right now. I don't know. That's on me. I've definitely learned, and now I'm gonna be like much better at negotiating and much better at like all of this because yeah, like I don't ever want to feel like that anymore, like being an underpaid. Like, I think that's why I was getting so frustrated. We have almost three minutes.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Let me just do uh a few last words, not just to you, but to anybody that's out there, like thinking, like, am I in the wrong for having my opinions? No, you're not in the wrong for having your opinions. You're gonna clash with people, and you know what? Unfortunately, speaking out against, I'm just gonna call it the man, because you know, since we're being called woke, speaking out against the man will get you in trouble. It will get you fired. Like, people love saying, like, oh, we love employees that speak up. They don't. For the most part, they don't. They want somebody who's gonna be submissive and quiet and okay with whatever they're doing. That is not either of our personalities, from what I've seen. We didn't go journalism for that. We didn't go for that. It's like I I am going to be loud and I am gonna ask those questions that are gonna make you uncomfortable. And if, you know, being fired is you know what ends up the consequences of my actions, as people like to call it, then you know what, Sylvie? Because at the end of the day, I can be at peace with saying I try to stand out for myself and do better for myself, and they just didn't want to see that happen. And if that's how they want to feel and they want to let me go, you know, cool. But I do don't, I don't appreciate them following me on my LinkedIn over and over and over again because it's like, get a life.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Yeah, you already let me go. So those are my final thoughts. Leave me alone. I will be taking my ideas to a new brewery who I know will have fun listening to it because I've met other people and they like my ideas.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

So And reach out to that team, the the mariners who met whoever like if you already have their contact information, that's really all you need. Be like, hey, you know, like I'm doing marketing stuff, blah blah blah. Just connect with him, and even if it's not for them, if he can get you connected with somebody else, like that's that's literally how it starts. Yeah, it's just so you know, good luck to you because you deserve a lot better than that place.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

So do you, and I'm honestly so excited for us because who she was dealing with, they're boy, they were big and trusting. I gotta say the name because I don't want to get another season assist. I already know, but they were big. Yeah. So thank you. And uh thank you for picking me up at the airport.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

All right, no problem. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed the treatment, share it. Send it to a friend, post it online, or just talk about it with someone. However, you spread it, I appreciate it. And if you want updates ahead of the treatment or standards, keep an eye out for my email. Follow or subscribe for more episodes of the notification. Talk to next time.