The Amsalu Podcast
Welcome to The Amsalu Podcast—a raw and authentic space where faith meets everyday conversation. Join Amsalu and a dynamic new co-host as they dive into the world of media, Christian perspectives, and Christ-centered insights. This podcast is all about genuine and unfiltered conversations—the meaningful, the mundane, and everything in between. As Amsalu and the co-host grow more comfortable in their space, you’ll experience conversations that invite you into deeper reflections and community. Tune in and be part of a journey that brings faith to the forefront of everyday life.
The Amsalu Podcast
Vulnerability Stops Being A Story When It Becomes A Practice
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One bad night doesn’t have to become a relapse, but it can expose something just as dangerous: the quiet slide into complacency. We sit down for a raw, faith-forward conversation about vulnerability in recovery, what it really means to “white knuckle” sobriety, and why ending up in the wrong environment can be a warning light you shouldn’t ignore.
We dig into the difference between war stories and healing. Sharing the wild details of addiction can sound like honesty, but we ask the harder question: are we exposing the root, or performing the branches? We talk about masks, defensiveness, shame, guilt, and how easy it is to get intellectual when the truth gets too close. If you’ve ever felt yourself tightening up when someone asks one follow-up question, you’ll recognize that moment.
We also go deep on emotional growth after addiction and mental health for men. When you spend years numb, “normal” feelings like gratitude can feel foreign, and the old messages about being tough can keep you isolated. We name what actually helps: community, accountability, and having someone who will pick up the phone and get you out of a situation without shaming you first. We close with practical boundary talk, including the hard reality that some friendships can’t come with you into your next season.
If you’ve been trying to do recovery alone, let this be your nudge toward real support. Subscribe for the next conversations, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the one takeaway you’re going to put into practice today.
Welcome Back And Why This Matters
SPEAKER_00Okay, let's just rather do that. I think that's our shot. I can't really see it. You're the only one that can. Yeah, it's not about seen, so it's about faith. It's about faith. Yeah, man. Glad to be back. Yeah, Doug. Uh out the gully with Gully. Meet some salu podcast. Uh yeah, man. Like. I appreciate the the platform, man. I really do. I'm glad, bro. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad. I think um it's a good springboard. You know? And and and what I love about you saying that, bro, is that we would see the purpose of Amsalu Podcast, the purpose of the platform Amsalu Podcast sits on, Amsalu Media, is for content like this, um, for initiatives and ideas like out the gully with gully, seeing the need and seeing how we can reflect God within the need. Love that. Yeah, love that. Yeah, um, but yeah, bro, today we're back.
SPEAKER_02Episode two. Yeah. Been been super excited for it, to be honest. Um, you know, after the first one, I was like, yo, man, I knew I want to shoot the second one, I want to shoot the second one, you know. Um, but life gets in the way, and um, but yeah, just glad that we could get together and do the second one.
SPEAKER_00Um how'd the hype feel for you? Like, how'd the the getting your responses? Because I know for me, like, I'm not a famous person. I mean, debatable, depends on who you ask. You know what I mean? But like to the extent of what we know as fame in terms of like there's a PR team and all this and all this, and you you are the thing people are waiting to see. And then you start having that. Yes, it's a little crazy.
SPEAKER_02It is, it's uh it's different. Um, yeah, because I mean, obviously, in in my recovery space, like a lot of people obviously were super interested and they wanted to hear it and then they heard it and like, oh my gosh, Kali, like your podcast, and it's it's it's super epic because people grasp it and people people um responded really, really well. So it's really good. And then it's like, when's the next one coming
Audience Response And The Pressure
SPEAKER_02out? When's the next? And then that pressure, you know, um comes along with it. But I'm I'm so grateful that people actually take some time out in their in their lives to to give it a listen and and to hear what we were all about. Um and I think that's the whole the real purpose behind this, you know, um, give inspiration, give hope um in the aspect of recovery and to speak about things that are that are difficult to speak about, man. I think that's that's the platform as well. Um, and soon obviously we'll have having a couple guests coming in as well, which is gonna be super cool um to interview a couple people um and get their perspectives as well um on on kind of what we're trying to do here.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, bro, and and what I love about it as well is this is evidence that we are building out the gully with gully. Um we've chosen so so so we didn't we didn't necessarily unpack that in the first episode we dropped. Initially, the first episode was meant to be on your platform, yeah, yeah. Which, as you've mentioned as well, life life gets ahead of us, so things haven't been aligned in such a way that we can build that up. But so so that's why um the springboard is here. Oh, ever so grateful. You know, that's why that's why we we also it do just because the platform maybe it's Sunday. I'm sounding well, I'm feeling preachy. Yeah, preach it, brother. But just because there's no platform, it doesn't mean the conversations shouldn't be had. Um and just because there's no platform to validate the conversation doesn't mean the conversations don't need to be had. 100%. Um especially with recovery, especially with how big I believe your podcast is gonna expose that recovery is damn near for everyone. Yeah, in every aspect. In every every aspect, yeah, yeah. Like, and what I appreciate about the recovery space we come from is that you're meeting uh addicts from all walks. It's not a a zeroed end. So so so I'm I'm even bold enough to say married people. Just off your marriage is something you need to recover from. Just off your, you know, recovery is is like our our previously titled episode, a way of life. Correct. Um, and I've been seeing that, Doug. I've been seeing that over my weekend. Uh I've had a terrible weekend,
A Rough Weekend And White Knuckling
SPEAKER_00by the way. Umpack that hell yeah. Uh this is the first thing I wanted to do. Like well, this is this is the place to do it, man. You can be vulnerable, yeah. It's a safe space, man. Listen, bro, and and and I hope I hope you'll allow me to use your safe space to to tap into this kind of vulnerability. But I found myself in a predicament where my my intentions were innocent, but the outcomes of the plans weren't. So we went out with some gents. Gents who who know I'm in the recovery journey, don't pay too much mind to it. Like to them, it doesn't register really. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because it never walked the journey, right?
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And and usually if I come up to you and you meet me for the first time and I tell you I'm in recovery, you're just gonna take my word for it. And you're not seeing me like scrawl, like you don't, you're not seeing me in a bad way. So it doesn't, it doesn't click over to this could be potentially a problem. Yeah. And so I I I've been hanging out with these guys with this whole innocence, um, I'm in recovery aspect, but then I watched how my my indecision or letting things just go with the flow get me into spaces where it wasn't it wasn't necessarily traumatic or or or freak me out that I'm in those spaces. Yeah. But I was so annoyed by all the things. I got so annoyed by seeing who Judah once was. Yeah. Seeing Judah being the the the guy who's drinking and plans on our happening on the fly. There's people who who who I'm I boast and and pride myself that no, I care about this person, I care about this person, but it's me during the night saying, no, no, we'll leave in two hours, bro. I promise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_004 a.m. We still haven't left. You know, um, so I experienced that and it had it made me look back at my recovery, like, okay, how seriously am I taking my recovery? 100%. And what are am I still white knuckling? That was that was a big thing. Yeah, you know, am I still white knuckling because as much as I'm off the stuff, I I I think is the problem, not dealing with me.
SPEAKER_02I think just to give some context on on white knuckling, if some people don't particularly understand that terminology in recovery, I think white knuckling it is just basically doing what you need to do to just stay clean and sober. But I think what you've mentioned now is yeah, I'm white knuckling it, so I'm just doing what I have to do, but I'm not actively working in my recovery, you know, um, and doing the things that I need to do to prevent those situations from happening. Um, and I think, well, thank you first of all for being vulnerable and sharing that. Um I just think that it's a difficult one because in recovery, generally, you don't want to lose those friendships, right? You don't want to lose those friends and you don't want to you don't want to make it seem like you're like the odd one out in the sense of like I'm in recovery. Because people, as you said, don't necessarily understand it and they don't see you in your worst space. So it's like difficult for them to go, oh snap, let's not give Judo a drink, or let's not invite Judo to this specific setting. Yeah, you know. Um, and and I think complacency also plays a big role in what you said. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but being complacent in the sense of I can go hang out with these guys. I can go to those environments where where you're in your recovery journey. I don't think you've reached a stage of being able to do those things and being strong and having accountability in those spaces, you know. Um shooting me a message, yo Gully, man, I'm going out with the gents, I'm going to, I don't know, we're going to flow out the road, gonna go have a couple, um, have some have some food, you know, have maybe a drink or two, but you're not gonna be drinking alcohol, you have a coke or whatever, but you're going in those settings. Then you could have like a springboard of somebody going, yo, Judah, man, do you think that it's like a good idea, man? Like, you know, or do you want me to pull in with you? You know? Um, and and those are the type of things that in recovery, that's why we say community is so important. Because in those aspects, those are the type of people you can reach out to and be like, yo, man, I'm I'm thinking about doing this, but is it a really good idea? Um, and then they can kind of give you the understanding of maybe not right now. Yeah, or maybe, yeah, sure. But maybe get leave at like half past nine, ten o'clock at night. Oh, we're getting there at six. Yeah, maybe leave at nine, man. You know, so you're not overextending your time there because you were the one that said, Oh yeah, I'm the one now that's saying we're gonna leave in two hours, then it's four o'clock in the morning. You know what I mean? Because it kind of got out of control. Um, so it's just having those, those type of things and and remembering those type of things in in your recovery journey. Um, because at the end of the day, we're speaking obviously off off air and how how recovery is such a selfish thing, you know. Um, but yeah, I think the difference of being like selfish in your recovery journey and being selfish as a human being are two very different things. Um which I was kind of explaining. But you have to be selfish, man, because at the end of the day, the journey is always for the person in recovery. Because you're not doing it for mom, you're not doing it for dad, you're not doing it for these people. Because if you're doing it for those people, it's gonna fail.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um just to give a little example. I I did recovery for for my ex. And it's like I was in recovery for a year and I relapsed like every three months because I wasn't doing it for Gulliver, I was doing it for her.
SPEAKER_00Um she wants too much from me.
SPEAKER_02She's yeah, I've been trying and I've been showing. And then three months is like, I've been clean for three months. Like, why can't like why can't the relationship go back to the way it was? Well, it doesn't really work like that, Gulliver. Um, and because my mindset was I'm doing it for somebody else, it wasn't like I'm truly feeling like I have an issue. So I think you kind of just gotta go back to the to the basics of why we why are you doing this in the first place? Um, and I think that gives you the confidence and and understanding as
Community, Accountability, And Being “Selfish”
SPEAKER_02well that no matter how far along in your recovery you are, there are just some scenarios and situations in life that you just gotta let go of, man. Yeah. That you can't be a part of. Um, and I mean that happens in your own time, uh, don't get me wrong, but I think I've been in recovery now for almost two and a half years. And there are some places that I still like, nah, I can't do it. Um and there's some people that I'm just like, nah, can't do it. And not because I don't like you, or not because I hate you, but you're not good for me. You know, you're not good for me or my recovery. So um I think that's that's kind of like the the the gist of the situation that I think maybe you found yourself in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, full disclosure, I wasn't the one who was 4 a.m.ing. I'm just saying.
SPEAKER_02Just want to make just want to put that out there.
SPEAKER_00This this this was the alcoholic's responses to me, and and I knew those responses were coming, you know what I mean? So, like the whole time I'm beating the other thing about being in these spaces is that the unhealthy thing is that you're just going there to beat yourself up, especially if you're in recovery. Because the whole time you're sitting there, you're like, ooh, was that how I looked when I drank? Ooh, the atmosphere is actually isn't real. The alcohol makes the atmosphere feel like, oh, people are connecting and vibing. Correct. And and and I was just like, I was so pissed, Doug, and I was I'm I'm so grown. You gotta realize that in those in those spaces, you're like, yo, man, I'm actually, yeah, this is not my vibe. Because one thing, one thing I think addiction does do is stunch your growth. 100%. Maturity, maturity goes out the window because everything from hey, I gotta take care of business to no no, I need 300 grand more to get, then we can get one more bottle. Yeah, or we can get this this next morning at Ikimal. Correct. You know, but um walking from from Hookrest to Panzan Valley, bro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, true stories. Such true stories.
SPEAKER_00Can I even tell this home? Can I walk to the phone?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm just cleaning. I'm just I'm just done it, man.
SPEAKER_00I'm just I've just done it as well, man. Yeah. A common thread in addiction. You know, before recovery rooms, I thought I was a special case. And I think we have said this before. And then you get in there, you're like, oh, I'm not the only one who's gone to prison. I'm not the only one who's walked home. I'm not the only one who's been stranded in a beach somewhere, not knowing.
SPEAKER_02I think I think I do have one though that I don't think anyone's done. I really do. Okay, I really do. And uh, it's a crazy one, man. I actually sold my car for drugs, man. Like, I don't think, like, I mean, there could possibly be like people, don't get me wrong, there are 100% people out there that are like like gamblers um that are addicted to gambling that probably put their mortgage on the line, you know, or put the house on the line, or probably their car on the line. But um, whenever whenever I share my story of like, yo, man, I sold my car and bought some crack cocaine, people are like, what did you do? And it's like, yo, man, in that moment it seemed logical, because this was my plan, right? Let me explain to you how like like my man thought back then, right? Which is just absolutely insanity. Is my ex-partner had a car, right? And I had a car. And I was sitting one day, and I think I had just left this job, or obviously got fired for not rocking up to work as usual. And um I was sitting at home one day and I'm just like, you know what? She has a car. So maybe if I sold my car, we still have a car to like drive around with the kid and whatever, whatever, if we want to go places. But then I'll buy my back, right? Makes more logical sense because like I'm by myself, like, you know, it's cheap on fuel. You start lying to yourself about all of these things. I get this money, yeah. This goes to the bike, and then this goes, yeah, right, right. And in my mind, I'm like, yo, I know, I'm gonna give her this amount of money, I'm gonna use this amount of money for the bank, and then I can use this amount of money for my
War Stories Versus Real Vulnerability
SPEAKER_02my substances, right? Yeah. And uh lo and behold, uh I've I put it on Facebook, and this guy from Phoenix reaches out, he's like, yo, man, I want your car. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be there right now. I literally had 50 Rand Pension on my car. I still don't know how the car got there, but it got there, man. I drove all the way from Pountown to Phoenix. It got there. Um, and he gave me this whole big ward of cash, and now I'm like, oh my word, I'm walking around with so much money. But anyway, I was fearless. So, first thing I do, instead of I get back to Pantan, right? And the first thing I I do is go to buy my substance. I didn't go buy the bike like I said I was going to. I go use the money for substance. And I before you know it, I'm two, three days on a vendor and spent four, five grand. And it's like, oh snap, that was the money I was supposed to give. You know what I mean? So it's actually it's crazy because those are those are the the memories and the moments where you think to yourself, how did how was how was my brain thinking that like kind of I lied to myself in such a way and manipulated myself in such a way that my brain thought it was okay to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And but like, I mean, as you said, there's so many, there's so many um things that people can be like, yeah, I relate to. But for me, that's the one I'm like, yo, man, I don't know if anyone can really because it's it's a big one, it's a big one. But uh yeah, it's a crazy one, it's definitely it's in that, in that, um, I think I think the the common thread today that's popping up is vulnerability.
SPEAKER_00And and so, and so I mean that that's a that's a vulnerable story. It's it's not like uh stand stand in front of thousands and say, hey, I did this, but it takes it takes vulnerability to get there. And bro, I'm uh you know me, I I get I'm I'm a I'm a psychological based person. Correct. So so I like to get to the bottom of things. That's why I avoid you so much. Yeah. No, no, no, rightfully so. You know what's crazy? Yeah. I was having this conversation with my mom, and I was I was being vulnerable with her. I'm like, dude, you know, you know, it's never a compliment when I hear when I hear um things like, oh, but you know, you're such a deep thinker, and and this, or the way you see things is very like complex. And I'm like, you just say you don't like hearing what I have to say to you. Yeah. You know? Generally, older people don't like listening to younger people. Yeah, but like even younger people, just because of how I I for me, you share a story with me. Yeah, I'm like, what's the root? And you're like, no, no, I'm still trying to show you the branches and the flowers. Yeah, but you want to get to the cold. None of that matters. The root is that you're an idiot.
SPEAKER_02Wow. I mean, you can't necessarily say that to someone, but when you can, but don't.
SPEAKER_00I've heard that that you can't, you can't, you can't blurt out the truth any any all anyhow. Yeah. I mean you can say the truth, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Just delivery is vitally important.
SPEAKER_00So that's that's why. So I was I was saying to the annoying thing is that you guys, you you say I'm a deep thinker, but if I say share some of my deep thoughts, they're all in the place where I was calling out something in you. Right? And so, and so I get wary of sharing my my opinions and things like that, but now I would like us to unpack vulnerability.
SPEAKER_02It's a it's a big one. Yes. I I I say it's a big one because for me it took me a really long time to become vulnerable, um, in the sense of actually letting people understand uh the brokenness. And um because it's not easy sometimes to be vulnerable in those spaces and and and to have those conversations. But I think the more I became vulnerable, the easier it was to heal those certain those aspects of my life. Um, but yeah, vulnerability is a huge one, man. And um pick up to anyone who is vulnerable. Let me let me start here. Let's look up the definition. Crazy. I don't have the Google definition in my brain.
SPEAKER_00But uh don't worry about that. That's why we have cell phones. But why can't I find my dictionary now?
SPEAKER_02Um, but yeah, while you're looking for that, I think for me, vulnerability is basically being able to speak about things that is even difficult for you to speak about to yourself. You know what I mean? Um in all aspects of life or any different things that have happened in life. So, and and vulnerability doesn't just happen um like any any at any moment. Like you have to kind of be ready for for vulnerability in the right spaces to the right people, um, you know, and and it takes a lot out of a person to be vulnerable. Um, because after you share that, you're like, oh my word, like a lot of people now know this information about me. What are people gonna think? And I think for me, that was what always hindered me from it because I always wanted to be the cool, funny, um outgoing guy that like all everyone thought was happy all the time. But meanwhile, I come out and be happy with you, but I go home and I cry alone, you know. Um and so me being vulnerable to those people didn't wouldn't make me feel safe that I had shared something with them um and how they would receive it. So I would just never do it until you get to the to the point of well, the point that I got to was I can be vulnerable and I was vulnerable with Jesus Christ first, you know, um, although he already knew everything about my life, but I still wanted to be vulnerable with him in that space um spiritually and and and just unpack all of those things. And then I was able to share it with psychologists and and people who who professionally could help me because that's what I would also like to encourage people to do, to see to see professionals um with regards to to any form of of problems that you're facing in life. Um and then on top of that, being vulnerable in spaces like my recovery group or our recovery group that we go to is being being vulnerable enough for somebody in the room who isn't vulnerable to go, wow, he shared that. He was vulnerable enough to share that. And that kind of gives other people a platform to be vulnerable, you know. And and I think that when I'm vulnerable in those spaces, um I'm I'm being vulnerable because I want to share my experiences and heal from them, as well as to give other people a platform and ability to go, oh my word, I can also share those experiences. Or I'd love it when like or I love it when like after after a group setting, like somebody come up to me and be like, yo, Kali, bro, that was so great, like um what you shared, and I have a similar thing, and then they'll relate to it, and then you can kind of have a conversation regarding that, and then they can be vulnerable with you one-on-one, um, or in the group setting. But that's my definition. I don't I don't think Google did it as well as I did.
SPEAKER_00No, no, it doesn't. No, I'm kidding. I wanted to give up on the definition, actually, because like what vulnerability is the state of being open to physical, emotional, or structural harm. Defines a system or individual's susceptibility to danger, attack, or damage. Um I I think I'm giving up on AI, bro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that just doesn't really delve into it, does it? Yeah, um, I mean that is that is literally the exposure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think vulnerability is is is exposing the roots of of problems, of uh feelings, of state of being. Um so so so in exposing the roots you You have more access as the person listening to me. If I expose my route to you, it's like now you know me. Now you know what I deal with. Yes. Trade carefully with it. You know, and and so and so the reason the reason I'm asking of what do we understand about vulnerability is because we were having a conversation earlier, and we're like, okay, being vulnerable is it is it sharing your story? Is it just sharing your story and including the gritty details?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or is it exposing who you're really trying to recover from or the the defects you're really trying to recover from? You know, like like I've been noticing that my vulnerability can be like, oh yeah, I used I used to I used to drink like this or I used to think, but I won't say I manipulate people still um or or or used to either all because right now I'm processing it in a sense of that I'm in recovery, which means these things haven't been fully recovered, these things haven't been fully restored. And so and so I still need to be the journey is actually me noticing these traits more than me, as you said earlier, white knuckling. Yeah, um, and so and so and so with vulnerability in recovery in the recovery space, do you don't you think it gets oversaturated? Uh the the the the the doom and gloom, the gore. It does it still sound like vulnerability to you, or is it war stories? You can define war stories.
SPEAKER_02You you missed the definitions here. No, no, I'm not missing definitions because I'm probably gonna get it wrong and people are gonna comment colour, but that's not it. Um, but war stories I think is is when you're kind of uh sharing a so like we shared that you we walked from Hokres to Panton or whatever, you're like, oh yeah, I just did that. That's sharing a war story, right? Or I sold my car for drugs or whatever. That's a war story. You're sharing all the bad experiences or the hectic experiences you should had in recovery. As if you're a hero. As if you're a hero, correct. I did. Um, or I did this, or I did this, and you're trying to bet at each other to see who did the worst thing. And it's like, mate, what are you doing? Keep quiet, stop that right now. Um, but yeah, so that's war stories. But I think vulnerability is is as you said, I think it's it's are you sharing it for the critty stuff, or are you sharing it for to move and heal? And for me, it's more of the moving and healing that people want to be vulnerable. And and you also got to take into consideration that a lot of people who I can speak for myself, I can't actually speak for other people. But for me, I don't understand that other people have been through what I've been through or can relate to what I've been through. Um, because there's certain things in life that are very, very heavy to carry. So me being vulnerable is not to not to say um I'm trying to be like, oh, this thing's really bad and it's happened to me, and probably none of you. It's more of a this thing has happened to me and it hurt me so much, but I'm wanting to speak about it because I want to be able to move and heal past this specific thing. And and because we're in the rooms of recovery and there's people and that community of people who care and love deeply and and take recovery really, really seriously. When you share something like that, someone will come up to you afterwards and be like, yo man, like that was amazing that you were able to share that. Um, this has been my experience with that. Yeah, you know what I mean? And and then you can take something from that because now that person shares um that vulnerability with you, they share that experience with you. So I think being vulnerable is sharing your experiences and the heartache of life and the hard situations and hard hard times. So I honestly think being vulnerable is such a positive thing, and like I try and encourage people to be vulnerable, but it's hard, man, because yeah, yeah, it's it's it's you know how how much I judge you for your vulnerability.
SPEAKER_00Why do you judge me, mate? Not all the time, Doug. Like, I don't know why you can even hold back. It's like surprised, yeah. I always question like, are you really being vulnerable right now? You know, are you really cuz because I think in what you're saying, the difficulty of vulnerability, yeah, is that I'm okay when it's time to share my story the way I want to. Yes. But the moment you inquire deeper, it's like, hey, where are you going? That's the one. I told you there was a scar there. What business you got knowing?
SPEAKER_02Back off. That's that's the that's the difference between telling war stories, as you said, and actually being vulnerable. Yeah. Because if you're gonna be vulnerable, you're gonna be vulnerable the full way through. You're not gonna be vulnerable to a certain point and then be like, yeah, I'm no longer vulnerable now. Like, I want to share a story and then be like, yeah, but I don't want to talk about it. I mean, people do do that, and that's because maybe what they're unpacking is a lot, and like um maybe they don't necessarily want to delve down too much into that same thing. But at the same time, you'll give um you'll give the grace to that individual, or you'll be like, Yeah, I share this thing, and if you ever want to talk about it again, like here's my number, or you know, I'm here, everybody can come have a chat with me, or whatever the case may be.
SPEAKER_00Um, so in recovery, when I'm being vulnerable sometimes, I have to catch myself. Cause I might be masking. There might be someone in the room that I might be masking for. There might be something about the topic that I might be masking for. Yeah. About what we're talking about. And so, and so, how do you maybe in your life or if you were to think about it, how do you unmask that? Because, like you said earlier, yeah, man. I can get up on the mic and be as vulnerable as I want. Correct. But you won't
Shame, Masks, And Telling The Truth
SPEAKER_00know a single thing about me still. Yeah. It's a it's a do you know why this is such a tough question to answer?
SPEAKER_02Even sweating.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I'm really not.
SPEAKER_02No, but you know, do you know why it's such a hard question to answer, man? It's because I was like the your I feel like I invented the mask, man. You know? So so your your question of like, am I just masking the vulnerability or am I actually being vulnerable is such a hard one for me to to to to like unpack. Almost makes you speak Zulu, doesn't it? Yo, if I could fluently I would, but uh let's not head down that road. Um but yeah, man, I think it's it's it's such a tough one, Judah. I think because at the end of the day, man, you only know why you're sharing what you're sharing. You know, and as you said, like there were reasons behind why you had it disclosed that you had cheated and whatever the case may be, and what your reaction, what reaction you wanted, and how you wanted the situation to pan out, and you didn't want the the nitty-gritty of please, I don't want to talk to you. Like, I don't know if I can ever forgive you for what you did. And now you were trying to backtrack on how you can fix that. But the whole reason about you being vulnerable and telling the truth basically is not for that. You're doing it because of the human being that you are, right? Because you're not a liar, you're not a cheater by our nature, right? In your heart of hearts, you're not that individual. So when you do those things, you feel guilty and it's eating you inside. And you're like, I have to say something, so you say it. But I think, in the context that you're saying, is you say those things expecting something. And I think what recovery has taught me is when you're being vulnerable, whether you're putting on a mask or not putting on a mask, it's not for anybody else but yourself. You know what I'm saying? So I can share and have put a mask on, but I'm the idiot. Because I'm being vulnerable to random people. I'm the idiot, yeah. Yeah, let's okay. Well, I'm I'm not calling you an idiot, just putting it out there. I'm not calling him an idiot. I'm just saying, you know. Um, but you know, it's it's it's that type of thing. Like, I'm being vulnerable for me, man. I'm not being vulnerable for these people. I'm not being vulnerable. I don't want, I'm not manipulating a situation here. I'm being vulnerable because something inside of me is feeling shame, guilt, hurt, all of the above um emotions that come with being vulnerable or come with the hurts or the trauma or whatever's come out in your life or happened in your life. So when I'm being vulnerable, whether I'm wearing a mask or not, man, it's still my story, it's still what I'm saying. And if I am wearing a mask, it's just like you're defeating the whole purpose because you're trying to share and be vulnerable with other people, and they're taking it at what you're saying. They're not thinking, oh, it's this guy wearing a mask, or is he not wearing a mask, or whatever the case may be. So I think you just got to dial it back to I'm being vulnerable for me at the end of the day. So you're being vulnerable to your ex or whatever the case may be that you you you cheated. You weren't you weren't telling her um because you wanted her to forgive you. You weren't telling her because you didn't want her to be mad at you. You didn't tell her because of X, Y, or Z. You told her because you felt bad, you felt shame, you felt guilty, and that's not who you portray, and that's not who you are. So that's what I can say with regards to that. Um, I don't know if that kind of answers your question. I could have won her back if I wasn't masking. Oh, see, something you learned from masking your emotions and feelings, guys.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, you saying that, bro, just made me not want to talk about vulnerability. Wow, crazy. That's that's a lot. Wow, that wasn't what I was that wasn't my aim, man. It's perfect because I think that's where vulnerability starts to count. Correct. When it starts because everything you're saying, like I was this nigga on my case now. Like, I was I was I was just asking a simple question. I thought I was trying to get him out the gun. Yeah, to like, okay, some some some truth bombs are hitting different areas, you know, the shame, the guilt, and things. These are things I always used to try praise that I don't ever feel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or I try unpack in a in a very intellectual way. But I I do I do still struggle with that. I do struggle with struggle with shame, guilt, and things. And I that's why I keep this mask on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Of of vulnerability. Yeah. Um, and then and then and then I quickly could feel my defenses wanting to come in. Or all of a sudden, all these big ambidextrous words were coming in. I don't even know what ambidextrous is right now. But now I'm like, no, no, no, no, get intellectual on them and and back them off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, shoot them off. Because you want to be you want to be defensive because you don't want to acknowledge that part of you, you know. And um, I think that's the whole beauty about recovery, right? Is that you you identify things about yourself that you never knew. You actually never knew about yourself until you start doing certain things, and you're like, oh, snap. Like, you know, like you just get to the realization right now. You're like, oh, that's why I feel like this. And I normally get so defensive in this and this and this. But you're unpacking as to why you why you would feel that way. Because you've never really been vulnerable to those aspects of your life. You've never wanted to admit you have shame or guilt or whatever the case, but you're not that guy that feels that, you know. I I was the guy that had no emotion. I was angry, sad, or happy, but I was 95% happy. You know what I mean? But I literally had those three. I think I thought, honestly, genuinely, I only had three emotions on love. Happy, sad, and angry. Those are the only ones. And um as I've grown in my recovery journey, you start to feel emotions that you're just like hi, pella. I don't know what this is. Like, why am I feeling is this love?
SPEAKER_00Is this love? Then I'm feeling like why am I feeling this emotion?
SPEAKER_02Or how like then this feeling makes me feel weird? Or you know, uh, this emotion doesn't really often happen. Why am I feeling this? Um, like there's so many different like feeling grateful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, yeah, truly feeling grateful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like you feel feeling like from where I was until now, I am so
Learning Emotions And Men’s Mental Health
SPEAKER_02grateful, but that emotion of feeling grateful is so weird. Because, in a sense, in my brain, which hasn't fully formed to be normal, okay. I don't know if that's a great terminology, but I've been such a horrible person for so long that now that good things are happening in my life, I don't deserve it in my brain. But although I'm putting in the work and although I'm doing the right things and they're happening, and then I'm feeling grateful to God because He's the one that's made it happen, it feels wrong. So when I feel the emotion, I'm like, yo, man, I don't know how to deal with this right now. Because at the back of my brain, you still like remember those things that you did. Remember the person that you were. You know what I mean? So it's it's such a hard thing. Um, I think you were saying earlier, like, I shared that I've been an addict for like 15, 16 years, right? And I've only been clean for two and a half years. So it's like my brain thought like this for 15 years. After two years, your brain's not just gonna go, oh yeah, you're okay, you can feel grateful, you can feel happy, you can feel this, you can feel that, and and be accustomed to those emotions. You kind of gotta you gotta build in those things and learn about emotions, learn how to process them, learn how to feel them. Um, and then again, that's being vulnerable with yourself. Because as men, we all know as men, you're not supposed to cry, you're not supposed to, you know, share your feelings, and da da da, you just gotta suck it up and move on. And that's such a dumb thing. Let me just tell every man and and and anyone who's ever said that in the world. That is the worst possible thing that you could ever say to a man is that like don't share your emotions or don't don't be don't be vulnerable. I think when I was a kid, um, I grew up with my guardian, and and she was very emotional, and I could cry with her and I could be happy with her, and I could share all my emotions with her, and I would feel that that was a safe space. And I think when she had left my life, a huge void was gone, which made me feel like I couldn't share any emotion with anybody else, or nobody else would care enough to hear those emotions. So that's my particular story as to why I couldn't share my emotion. But I was an emotional kid. I think all kids are emotional, but you know what I mean? Like I was okay with sharing my emotions until I started growing up, and then you're realizing, oh, this is what the world says about men. Men shouldn't cry. Men should be strong, men should do this, men should do that. Yeah, and until you get to a point where you can't be strong anymore. Right? And then you you get and then you start to understand why there's such a high rate of suicide in men, and why mental health for men is such a hard topic for us to talk about because of the the the what the world's portrayed about what how men should behave and how men should feel. And and that for me is so frustrating, man, because I'm just like when a man is being vulnerable, he's not being, I've said this to you as well. He's not I'm not being vulnerable for other people, mate. I'm being vulnerable for me because I want somebody to hear. I want somebody to just listen. I don't care you give an example. Um, I'm not going to be the greatest time in my life right now. Um, and and last week, all I wanted was somebody to just listen. I didn't want anyone to talk to, uh talk to me about my problems. I didn't want anyone to give me advice about my problems. I just wanted someone to listen. And it's so beautiful because in the recovery space, you find people that will literally just be like, yo, man, I'm right. Whether you say anything or don't say anything, I'm just gonna sit right here. You know what I mean? And that in itself is being vulnerable, you know? And that in itself is is giving you a platform to be vulnerable. And and you sit in that space, and as much as things are going through, you just need that that support. But like, if I didn't have that, I would go home and then be like, I can't feel sad about that, I can't feel upset about that. Whatever happens, happens. I've just got to suck it up and be strong. Exactly. And that's not a thing, that's not a way to live. Um we've got we've got God who is the most important person in anybody's life. And then on top of that, you've got people who really do care about you if you are in the recovery journey. Um, so yeah, man. Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but I think I'm just very passionate about that that that that that topic specifically.
SPEAKER_00It's your podcast, man. Me, me, me. I'm here for for the great ride and and and the great the great knowledge you're sharing with me, bro. I think I think it goes to it goes to it opens my eyes up to like, hey man, um look to those who are ahead of you in the journey. Um I get to know you on on two different levels uh at work and also within the recovery spaces. And so, and so I get to see some things that I won't see in recovery, and see some things in recovery that I won't see this side. And it's like um you can I can easily forget that you are ahead of me in the journey. Yeah. And that's not to that's not to be competitive, that's to learn from. Correct. That's grasp. Because because sometimes uh recovery can easily get up here.
SPEAKER_02Oof, yo, man, you're telling me about it. Recovery, uh, are you talking about like the complacency or just like the fact that you're doing it so now you you need you need that like um that recognition or you need that like uh people to be like, oh get off your case because I'm in recovery type of thing?
SPEAKER_00I think more more more in convincing myself that I'm okay now. Ooh. I almost don't need it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so so But our best thinking got us, yeah, remember? Yeah, so yeah. And so and so and that's a hard hard line to accept. Because it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I still am operating on my best thinking. And it's like that's the problem. Yeah, yeah. You know, as much as it's not completely relying on my my best thinking, yeah, but I'm chopping at that trick constantly. But you being ahead of the journey, um, I need to be, I need to humble myself and and and learn because recovery, recovery. I've had a time and time again where I come in and I'm like, it's been three months. Yeah, you understand how hard it was, just for an hour. Yeah. For me, you understand how and it's like I'm so proud of me, and then and then I feel like I can advise or I feel like I can just be, and it's like, hey man, treat this as I think, I think, I think I might even replace the word selfish with respect. Yeah. I need to respect my recovery. Correct. Cuz because if I respect my recovery, I establish value. I establish the values that I of what comes with it, correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then comes the different, the different nice, the nice, the nice suit and ties, the mooring lines and the and the accountability and the ENTP, and saying a lot of, you know, but really the foundation of it. Correct. Yeah. Stay humble. You it wasn't by my strength, it was by God alone that I'm here. Yeah, yeah. And and and and so uh it makes me and it encourages me to become more vulnerable now. Yeah, because I've been uh it's funny that we're talking about vulnerability, uh, your Sunday morning. Yo, um crazy. I had the craziest Sunday morning, guys. So my week, every everything has been around this this vulnerability spot, and I've been taking it to God. This morning I was like, God, here's the situation. I feel stupid for doing all of this. I know nothing is overly wrong, nothing is necessarily messed up about the night before. All it is about the night before is I missed a rugby match looking for parking.
SPEAKER_02Cause the game was great, by the way. We won like 57 something.
SPEAKER_00I was following online. Oh, that's so sad. Outside the stadium.
SPEAKER_02Outside the stadium. 26-7. Nice. 32. Yeah, yeah, it was so fun, by the way. But yeah, continue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, tried to play it off even after the game. Oh good game, man. 54-19. Yeah, of course. Wonderful. Well, who's the Z Bray team anyway? Yeah, I don't even, I don't even know what one of them looks like. Damn crazy. Why? Because I was outside the damn stadium. You know, all these things were going wrong and meeting up with with girls that I'm not that guy anymore. Yeah. You know, even even even them. I had to be I had to be vulnerable, unfortunately, with a with a drunk person, which didn't work. Because I was like, I want to go home. I don't want to do this. I don't want to talk to these women because I have nothing to offer them. I don't everything in me is saying I don't belong in the space. Please get me out. I should have said that when he first offered in the beginning of the day. Not at seven o'clock at night in the car on the way to go pick up these girls. You know. But yeah, Doug, I'm just I'm just looking at it and I'm like, God, you know every single word that's gonna come out my mouth before it even comes out. It was written all your time ago. Yeah. Before I was even formed, before I was in the secret place. This is Psalms 139. Go read it for yourself. It's amazing. Yeah. But I'm seeing that and then I'm becoming more, God, I really want to do this. It's it's it's beating in my chest. Yeah. I'm um I I wanna I wanna go smoke. I want to go drink. In that vulnerability, what I've noticed is that as the prayer is going, I start unpacking. Instead of because when I'm not unpacking, I'm worried the whole time. So frustrating so much. But it went to God. I felt insecure. I felt like I couldn't be the Judah I once was for this occasion. And so now I'm trying to match that Judah internally. I'm trying to I'm ignor I'm ignoring conversations with you now, God, all of a sudden, because I know that this is everywhere I don't belong. And so, and so God, would you would you would you start working in my heart? I've much like on a drunk night squandered my finance. No, no, before even this night, my finance was was was in a bad place because of circumstances. Yeah, and in those circumstances, I'm so justified, bro. For once, it's so good to say my money got got drained by me feeling a need for someone or me serving. But I still woke up like a drunk person with the bubble lies this this morning saying, like, what was I doing yesterday? Yeah. Why did I why did I let my thinking get me to that place? Now I don't have I don't have guap. I don't have this. You know what happened? I called my friend this morning, start renting to him. Hey Fitz, I was feeling like this, I was feeling immature, I was feeling like this, I was feeling like this, I was feeling like this. And I just was asking God for he's like, nigga, you left some money at my house about two weeks back. Still sitting there. So when you're ready to get it, come get it. And I'm like, Oh damn. God, I just opened, I pulled my heart out to you. See how you works in so many mysterious ways, man. And then you start answering prayer. Yeah. You know, it's beautiful, it's absolutely beautiful. Vulnerability matters.
SPEAKER_02It does. I think just on on a because I mean you've you said a lot there, and there's a lot to unpack, but I think you you were saying that you kind of were in a situation where you found yourself and you felt like you didn't that wasn't the space that you should have been in, and you should have said no that many times before, or whatever, taken up the opportunity.
SPEAKER_00I shouldn't have given given him the damn rugby ticket. First of all, my bad. Forgive me when you see this.
SPEAKER_02You're being vulnerable, bro. It's okay. Yeah. He gets it, he gets it. Um, no, but I mean, at the end of the day,
Respecting Recovery And Asking For Help
SPEAKER_02man, I think this is why I tell you recovery and community is so important. And for everybody out there, to why you must have so many vitally important people. Because for me, if I find myself in a situation like that, okay, I'm um I'm privileged enough to say I have a car, so I could just jump in my car and drive away. But like, for example, you don't, right? But you could you have my number. Yeah. You know I'm at home, right? So, so, and this is why I love calling people out, and and and it's not, it's not, it's not being horrible or or or trying to to um like make them feel bad. But at the end of the day, he has you have people in your life who care enough about you to help you in situations like that, right? And and that's frustrating for me when you don't use those things, then you come and tell me these stories, and I'm like, bro, where like did you did you? Did you tell me? No, you didn't. Because at seven o'clock at night, you're somewhere and you don't want to be that somewhere. Phone me, man, it's and be like, yo, man, Gully, I'm in this situation, dog. I don't want to be here. Say less, Judah. I'm on my way. Just semi-location. And then I'll be there in 15 minutes. You get what I'm saying? And it's and it's like, it's like, I have people like that in my life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I want to be that person in many people's lives. And I don't quite know how to further tell people that I'm that person in their life. You know what I mean? It's just like, I think if you know who I am and you know me, you'll know that I'm that person who would be there because I was a guy calling you at seven o'clock at night, but it wouldn't be seven, it would be three in the morning, telling you I'm in a prison cell because I got locked up for drinking and driving. Or I'd be phoning you at one in the morning, telling you there's Nigerians looking for me because I stole their drugs. You know, it's like that type of thing. Like, there's there's there's people who I could have phoned in those situations who I could still phone now today, you know? And I want to be that for somebody, you know, and and that's why we have the recovery group and we have the community, because when you are feeling in those, the you at that moment in your life where where you've you've you know you've made a bad decision, and maybe it's the guilt and the shame that made you not phone me that you just mentioned, right? Exactly. Because you're not that guy. I don't want to be vulnerable about it. Yeah, you don't want to be vulnerable about it. But another thing is I'm not gonna come and fetch you now, I want to question what you were doing. I'm gonna say, all right Judah, where are we going? You're gonna be like, nah, dog, I just want to go home. I'll drop you at home and then I'll leave you.
SPEAKER_01When you're already sick, go out.
SPEAKER_02Right? I'm not that guy. Taking you home. Yeah. Um and I think that's like the and that's what I think what you're mentioning as well. Like when you're through three months in recovery, like you'd like, I got this, I got this. Nah, and it's and it's you gotta you gotta understand, and I love that you lose the word respect, because you gotta respect the journey and you gotta respect the people who are in the journey as well, you know. Um, and for me, understanding how recovery is and what a space mentally you can be in when you're in those type of environments, like I don't want to talk about why I made a bad decision. Like, I already feel shitty, I already feel guilty, I already feel shame, I already feel all the bad things. Like, I know that coming to you, right? So I'm not gonna get there and be like, yo, Judo, so just unpack for me, mate, what happened today and like why we got to this place. No. The only thing I'm I'm doing that I have in my brain is get Judo out of that situation before it gets worse.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know? Yeah. And and that's the beauty of recovery, and that's the beauty of of being on a journey for a certain period of time. Because you learn this type of stuff. Someone in three months, in three months' recovery, is not gonna know that. So if roles were reversed, and I phoned you after you've been in recovery for three months, your first go-to is like, oh, I'm so such an idiot. And then you go, then you get there, and you're like, bro, what is actually wrong with you? Cause the performance, yo, let's go, da da da da.
SPEAKER_00Let me go help him finish this band out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, first, all that as well, you know. That's another dangerous thing. That's another dangerous thing. And um, and then in the car, you're like, yo, man, why did you do that? You know you shouldn't be in these pets. I don't want to hear that. You know what I mean? I don't want to, I don't want to reinforce the flop that I've made. I want to know that I could rely on somebody that could come and help me. Not just say that I'm not gonna be held accountable for what I've done, just not in the moment. Yeah. Because there's a time and a place for everything. And the time and the place is not right now. Because eventually you're gonna get, I'm gonna feel in a place where I feel terrible for bringing you out in that situation to help me, and then I'm gonna have to apologize and come and speak to you about it. And then that moment is when I have that conversation with you. Yeah, man. So, Judah, I I I get it, man, and I'm happy that I was able to help you. But like, what was going on? Right? How did we get to that point? What are we gonna do to prevent us from getting to that point? Yeah, you know, and then you then you kind of can can can can form things that that can can help you against those things. Okay, cool. I'm going to the rugby. Who am I going with? I that guy the last time I went with that guy, or that guy's friends the last time I went with him. I can't do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Let me find out if Gully's going to the rugby. Let me go find out if this guy's going to rugby. You know? Let me try and go with a different group of people, right? Because for me, it's like I can experience so many good things with a certain people. If I enjoyed those same things with this group of people, it wouldn't end the same. You know what I mean? Because they're not clear, you know? So you gotta kind of pick and understand um
Cutting People Off And Setting Boundaries
SPEAKER_02those type of things. And I think another thing is which I'm not sure you've done, and I obviously don't want to call you out on it, but like come at me, bro. Anybody in recovery as well, is like a big thing of recovery and moving forward in your journey is to cut off people, right? Yes, yeah. Have you done that?
SPEAKER_00No. Oh, so do you do you oh no, never mind about it? Only exes, Doug, because they have it's it's in the name X. No, no, no, no, no, no, not type girlfriends, man. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. That's the only thing that's been able to be cut.
SPEAKER_02No, I'm talking about like human mates, like mates that like you know, I've been with friends with some people from the time I was in grade seven, grade eight for like or so many years, and I've literally cut them off like last year or two years ago when it came into recovery. Yeah. Do you know why I cut them off? Because those people no longer serve any good in my life. Right? When I was an addict, we shared the same thoughts, we shared the same whatever is, we like to go to the same parties, we like to do the same things, but my life has evolved in such a way that you're still continuing to do those things. I no longer do those things. I still love you, I still care about you. Yeah, but me and you are no longer on the terms of you can phone me up and ask me for money, or you can phone me up and say, Yo, I need help with this, because I'm not gonna help you, because I've made a conscious decision to change my life for the better, and I cannot have that in that interrupting. That's why I say recovery selfish, right? Yeah. Because I have to be selfish towards that. So, what the hardest thing that I did, because I'm a people pleaser, I love to make everybody happy, like literally everybody. Um, and I will walk into a room and and and be able to make everyone laugh, or whatever the case may be, to make people feel welcome, to make people feel okay and at ease, right? Because I'm a people pleaser. So me cutting off those people was probably and is probably the hardest thing that I had to do in my recovery.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, because those were my friends, you know. Um, that was the foundation of who Gulliver was built up on. Until I had to come to the realization that these are just human beings that don't really care about you, Gulliver. They care about you, but when you have money and you can buy DOP or you can buy this or you can buy that.
SPEAKER_00Um because they really don't if you don't have that. Correct. It's and and it's so hard because to you, it's like, oh come on. Even then, when they don't have money, I don't go to them. But it's like, no, no, no, no. You don't you don't feel the same way, they don't feel the same way you feel about them. Correct. Yeah. Um but you to answer your question, no, I haven't I haven't really done much cutting out, cutting. I think I've allowed the cutting that has happened, I've allowed circ situations to escalate to the point of there's no other choice but to cut them off or each other off. Um so kind of like wait for the for the mutual place to be like, okay, he also doesn't like me. Perfect.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, let's cut it. But that's that's I get what you're saying, but that's also like a very toxic way of doing it, I think. Um, it's very lazy and it's it's very waiting for like a really terrible thing to happen before uh thingy Okay anyway, terrible thing to happen, yeah. So just like waiting for a uh a terrible thing to happen within the friendship for it to kind of cut off. But um what I what I was saying, yeah, but what I was saying is that you don't have to do that. I think you can just be open and honest with somebody. Like, yo, man, we are mates, and we were mates, and we have been mates for a very, very long time. But my life right now, my friend, does not align with the life you're living. If you're going to change your life, sure thing we can hang out, sure thing we can go for coffee, sure thing we can go for lunch, sure thing we can, you know what I mean. But until you your life aligns with where I'm projecting in my life, we can't hang out, dog. And it's not like if I see you at Knowles or if I see you anywhere, it's not like I'm gonna be rude or whatever. I'll still come up to you and say, What up? How you doing? We have a little bit of catch-up on a normal, like you know, we meet you out in random. But like me and you're no longer gonna make plans to go out together, yeah, because it doesn't end well for me. Because you're still living a life that I don't want to live. And I think that's a conscious decision that you need to make, man. And and I think you said you wanted to respect yourself and respect your recovery journey. And if you're telling me that you want to respect those things, those are the type of hard things you gotta do, man. Um and and and uh I don't want to say unfortunately, it's fortunate, mate. Because when you do it, you'll see the difference. Yeah, yeah, and and like you have friends outside of that space. You have me. I don't know if you classify me as your friend. Um you got people, man. And I know you know you got people in in the space of recovery and and that want the best for you, man. So I'm hoping that you can make the right decision moving forward. And I mean, you gotta bump your head a lot of times, man. You know, recovery is not just a thing of like, yeah, today I wake up, I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm changing my life, I'm gonna be in recovery, and you think it's gonna be a clean, clean, clean slate, and everything's gonna be great. I mean, for some people it works out, and that's 100% amazing. Big ups to you, man. But I've been in recovery for three and a half years, and for a whole year of that, I relapsed continuously.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, because you have to bump your head that many times, and you've gotta you've got to learn from your mistakes. Um, in order to, when you when you know it, you'll feel it, man. And when like you said, you you you spoke to God and and you're vulnerable and you you surrendered it to him, you're like, God, I really want to do this and I really want to do it right. And then you like phoned your mate and you were venting to him. And then he's like, yo, man, like you left some money here. That's just that's a sign. Like, you know, not all hope is gone. Like, and however you want to look at that sign or or or or or that situation, but this is a real big positive, and I hope that you can grasp that and and uh like move with it, man. Um, because that's what this is all about, man. Learning, understanding, um, giving back. Um, you know, the whole reason why I'm doing this this podcast thing, man, is to give back to people who have lived a similar life to me or living a similar life to you, or whatever the case may be. And and I'm I'm so excited for for further for the episodes because I have a current mate
What’s Next, Prayer, And Listener Challenge
SPEAKER_02who is um who's in current uh current active addiction and um he's a functioning addict. Like I want to understand in my brain how you do it, mate, on a day-to-day basis, like, or like on a week to weekend basis. And we're gonna hear from people like that. Give me your metabolism. No, but I don't want it. Like, I'm cool. Like you keep your you do whatever you need to do. But like, that's a super cool episode that's gonna come out, or like uh episode on on like another mate of mine who who's serving a church and is um who's who's leading worship and stuff, and he is he was in the recovery house with me, and he's he's come out and he's he's like you know working for the church. I don't want to say it too much, but um, and he's gonna be on here and we're gonna hear his story and like you know, so many different other aspects of of recovery, so we can we can actually really get the gist of it and and supporters, people, people, sisters, mothers, um, that that that supported an addict, like how did you go through it without enabling the person you love? Like, you know, especially mothers, because it's so difficult for a mother to say no to their son or their daughter, you know, because all you want to do is help them, but you helping them makes them worse, which is like a crazy concept to get your head around. So I'm super, super excited for for all of those. But um, I'm just really glad that we could we could speak on on vulnerability today and and and get and get get get to to the gritty of of vulnerability and and how vulnerability is such a positive step in your recovery. Um in all aspects, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Can can people expect more of this length of conversation? Um we've been going an hour, that's why we've had to press record twice.
SPEAKER_02Oh damn, yeah, yeah. I think nah, I think I think vulnerability is just a very big topic. So our our our I don't I want to say our my podcast is kind of gonna be an hour, but I'd say about 40 minutes to an hour. Um, but 40 minutes is probably my cap. I'd like to keep it nice and simple.
SPEAKER_00I love people who've never started podcasts talking like they know the figures.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, no, I don't, I don't just just for just for clarity, I really don't. Um but as you said, I'm a gamber mouth man, I can talk for days. That's a beautiful thing. But um yeah, so as I said, it's we got we've got a lot of people coming up, um, a lot of things to speak about. Um, and I'm so so excited for this journey, man. And yeah, uh my website is also going to be out pretty soon. Um, so people can obviously speak about that more when it when it officially officially goes out. But obviously, thank you to your pot platform and um and giving me the platform. I mean, I just gave you scaffolding, Doug. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_00I mean you you've you've done the groundwork, man. This this this is the type of uh the type of alcoholic I was. See that right there? Yeah, yeah. Uh you just finished everything. Yeah, finished now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, Doug, uh, let's pray it out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um thank you so much for for joining us, guys. And uh yeah, we look forward to the next episode. And thank you, Judah, for uh co-hosting with me today. It's amazing. It's a pleasure, Doug. It's a pleasure, Doug. But yeah, we spoke about real, real, real um positive topics, real hard topics. Um, yeah, I just hope that you guys kind of took something out of this this conversation, man, and and just can put that in in your recovery or in your life, man, moving forward. Um, but yeah, so grateful to have you and uh to be supporting. So yeah, thank you. You want to pray us out, man? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Lord, um thank you, Father, that you're such a loving father. Thank you that um you knew us before we were formed in our mother's wombs. Thank you, God, that you gave us these hearts, these these organs, these these different things that make us people, um, so that we could give them back to you, Lord. Even even even when we we we feel we've damaged so much of this temple. Um, especially in recovery, you know, when you when you start looking at your life as a temple, you're like, man, I didn't put so much graffiti all over all over my my father's temple. But we thank you for our scars, Lord, that we can be vulnerable about them because you are the one who's healing us, you are the one who's walking the journey with us. We we thank you, God, for for what you're doing here for this platform. And we just pray, that through your spirit, that whoever needs to hear this, whoever needs to know more about recovery, whoever needs to know more about their situation, whether it be addiction or someone else in addiction, Father, we pray that this be a tool. We pray that this be a vessel. We pray that you use us as vessels. Thank you for for Gulliver's hearts. Thank you, God, for for what you've instilled in him and and for what you are motivating him to do about his journey of recovery. Pray that you bless him, oh God. Pray that you bless um his hands as he works on building up this podcast. I pray that you bless my hands. And we pray for Jesus to be known in addicts' life that might not know him or who do know him, might they encounter him through their addiction that they may walk in recovery. We love you, Lord, and um thank you so much in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Thank you for that, man. Super powerful. Cheers, guys, peace. Three things to challenge you while watching these episodes. Um, or things to keep in mind. Uh, what stands out to you in the conversations you listen to and in the conversations you watch? Secondly, what does it reveal about God? That thing that stands out to you or in the conversations, what do you see? And then thirdly, what's one practical step in obedience that you can take from hearing these podcasts? And uh, with that last step, keep it short, specific, and doable today. Would love to hear from you guys, would love to engage with you guys on some of these things. So, do hit us up on the gram. Uh, we are on Facebook as well, and um, yeah, drop a comment on YouTube, drop a like, share, subscribe, all those nice things to to perpetuate the the the the dialogue, the ongoing conversation because the podcast doesn't end behind this screen here, but it continues in in our conversations and coffees with friends, people we meet and engage uh day to day. So, God bless. Lots of love from me. See you in the next episodes.