Borrowed Trust: Using Podcasts, Speaking & PR to Grow Your Business w/Emily Aborn and KJ Blattenbauer

You don’t need a bigger audience. You need the right kind of attention.

In this episode (the first in our series of interviews with the PWR 2025 Impact Award winners), I’m joined by two brilliant women who know what it takes to build credibility, visibility, and trust without going viral or chasing vanity metrics.

Emily Aborn, host of Small Business Casual and PWR Podcast Host of the Year, shares how she creates a real human connection - even when recording a podcast episode alone.

KJ Blattenbauer, PWR Speaker of the Year and author of Pitchworthy, shares why depth, intention, and audience advocacy matters more than visibility for visibility’s sake.

Both of my guests agree that podcasting, speaking, and other forms of PR  are relationship-driven tools that help the right people find you, trust you, and buy from you.

We also discuss:

• Choosing visibility opportunities based on your actual business goals
• What it really means to read the room — and when to ditch the script
• How to use podcasts, speaking, and PR to borrow trust instead of chasing attention
• Simple, practical tools you can apply immediately, even if visibility scares you a little!

Links & References:

• Learn more about all the 2025 Powerful Women Rising Impact Award winners 
• Connect with other female entrepreneurs inside the PWR Connection Network
• Listen to the Small Business Casual podcast
• Follow Emily on Substack
• Get your copy of KJ's new book, Pitchworthy
• Follow KJ on Instagram

Transcript

Meet The Impact Award Winners

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello, ladies. Welcome to the Powerful Women Rising Podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having us, Melissa. Yeah, thank you for having us. Yeah, I should say welcome back, Emily. This is like your third time on the podcast, right? Oh my gosh. Am I the only three-timer?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Because that will be very exciting or a monumentus moment.

Emily’s Podcast And Copywriting Philosophy

SPEAKER_02 0:21

You're like a 120-timer because you are the voice of my intro and my outro too. So you are in every single episode. This is exciting. I know. You're like a superstar. Okay, so I'm so excited. We are doing um a series of interviews with the winners of the 2025 Powerful Women Rising Impact Awards. This is the second year in a row that we've done those awards. And this year it just took off like crazy. I was so amazed by how many nominations we got, how many votes we got, all of the amazing women that I had no idea even existed, um, that now I know about because of these awards, and it's been really fun. So this is the first of those interviews, and I'm excited to chat with the two of you. Emily is the winner of the podcast host of the year award, and then KJ is the winner of the Speaker of the Year Award. And that is my foster kitten. She did not win any awards, but she wants to be a part of this interview as well. Um, she could very easily win an award. I don't know. She's very cute. Cutest kitten award. I know, I know she is until the next kitten comes in. And then I'm like, actually, that one is the cutest. Okay, so before we dive in, Emily, tell everybody a little bit about you, what you do, all the things.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Okay, thank you. And thanks for the opportunity. So I love that we have the synergy of podcast host and speaker. I think that's gonna make a really nice. We're gonna have similar thoughts, I bet. Um, I am a podcast host, as Melissa said, of the Small Business Casual Podcast. It's a mostly solo show with a few exceptions for like my BFFs when I want to have them on as guests. Um, and it's all about how to run a business that's successful and thriving, but also lets you live your normal life the way you want to live it. So you're not, you know, that work life balancing. I don't really believe in that, but I do believe that we can be successful in all areas of our life if we are not overextending ourselves all the time in our businesses. So that's what that's all about. Um, I'm a copywriter, so I work on website copy and blogs and any of those little tiny taglines and things that people get tripped up in and stare at a blinking cursor for days and days and days. I come in to save them. So that's it in a nutshell. Uh, I live in New Hampshire, which I feel like that just pretty much tells you everything you need to know about my personality.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

I don't even know what that means. I'm gonna have to ask ChatGPT, Google that. Tell me, tell me about people who live in New Hampshire.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

No, I think everybody okay, the stereotype is that in the northern states on the east coast, we tend to be very quick, talk fast, think fast, move fast, uh, a little sarcastic maybe at times. And but you get in somebody's circle and you are like in for a lifetime. So okay, that tracks actually.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, that's good. Those are good things, those are all good things.

KJ’s PR Journey And Book

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, it sounds exactly like you. I can't even remember actually how we met, but I feel like it's been years and you're like one of my favorite people that I've never met in real life. I wonder how we met. I'm gonna think about this later, Melissa. Thank you. I know you're just one of those people that's always been around. I don't know where you came from, but I'm glad you're here. KJ, tell everybody a little bit about you and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Hi, I'm KJ Blattenbauer. I am a public relations pro with almost 30 years of experience in PR. I've worked in big and small agencies, corporate, not corporate, nonprofits, crisis communications, celebrity in Hollywood, athletes, all of it. But I've had my own PR agency for the last 14 years, and I'm also an author. I have a new book that's out recently called Pitchworthy. But I love telling people stories. And I think that so many small business owners, especially female founders, have just amazing stories to tell. And I think that public relations is the best way for them to do it. One, because it's free, but also because it's just a great way to share what you're doing, whether it's a business, a brand, a service, or a product with the world. Yeah.

Lessons From Hosting And Interviewing

SPEAKER_02 4:31

You're obviously great at PR because when you came on this call, I asked the two of you if you knew each other. And Emily was like, no, but I feel like I've seen you somewhere. I'm like, you have, because she's all over the place. Success. It's working. It's working. I love it. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about your specific awards. I know that speaking is not your sole focus, KJ. And I know podcast hosting is not your sole focus, Emily, but I want to talk specifically about those things today, just because that is what the awards that you won are. And they they have a significant part to play in what each of you does in your business as well and what you help people with. So I want to start with you, Emily. What do you think has been your biggest lesson that you've learned as a podcast host?

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Oh, okay, this is fun. So as a, I would say as a host, it's twofold. Um, you you said biggest, but I'm gonna give you kind of like two. One is that I started to learn to follow my curiosity a whole lot more. And like the things that when I find myself really, really interested and passionate and excited about a topic, it can't help but come through in how I share it. So that's number one for anybody starting a podcast. Like you're not gonna be able to sustain it on if you're not interested. I will say that. Um, and the other thing I learned, and I learned this pretty quick, and I learned it by listening back to a lot of my interviews. So I used to have an interview-only podcast or interview primarily podcast, and I listened to those after I would record them to like, you know, check for edits and things like that. I learned how not to interview. And that was like basically I had a list of questions printed out, and I would just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom through all the questions. And when my guest responded, rather than like having a conversation with them, you know, rather than making it a natural flowing thing, I would just be like, oh, I love that. And then I would just move on to the next question. So I learned really quickly, number one, the power of like really listening back to your interviews because it teaches you so much about your own. You can do it solos too, but just teaches you a lot about the things that you, the bad habits you have and the good habits you have. Um, and I learned to make it more conversational and natural. And it's so much more fun. It's like nobody wants to just sit there like they're in the hot seat the whole time. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

That's probably those lessons are true for speaking as well, right? KJ?

Speaking That Reads The Room

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Oh, a hundred a hundred percent. I think you have to be so many people, I think, go up on stage and they have a script and they're only reading their script and they're not gonna sway from their script. But if you're literally not reading the room, if the audience is engaged, what their body language is, if you're hitting, if your timing is right, all of those things, you are going to never be asked back and you're gonna have a horrible time. And like you can feel it when a crowd is not engaged whatsoever. I spoke earlier this year and I had a whole speech prepared. I was ready to go. I was like, knock this one out of the park. It's fine, you know, the great, on to the next thing. And I got up on stage and I looked at everyone and they looked just literally like eyes glassed over from the last speaker, like they were ready to all walk out of the room. And I just set my speech down and I said, I know you guys have spent like two really long days, and I want you to get something actual. And I threw my speech out the window right then and there. And I just started asking people randomly, like, hey, what do you do? Have you tried public relations? What if you try this, this, or this tomorrow? And I think I ended up going over like 45 minutes and they just kept letting me talk because people were so excited to finally find something that someone was going to engage with on something actionable that they could take away. And I think it's just really taking two seconds to listen, whether it's on a podcast or whether you're speaking, even in just conversation or picking your your brain call with someone, what are they truly saying? I don't think we do enough listening and hearing what people truly want or what they truly need. And it's such a disservice to conversation.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Yeah, absolutely. I could not I think as a podcast host, I've realized like how hard it is to listen actively while also thinking of what I'm going to say next, right? Because it's not like it is like a regular conversation, but it's also not like a regular conversation. And so I'm trying to pay attention to you. I'm trying to like think what direction is the best direction for this to go in, but I'm also trying to listen to you at the same time. And it's, I mean, podcast hosting is like waitressing, right? Like it's not rocket science, but it's also not for everyone. No, it is not.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

I think as a podcast host, you have a special, an extra special job to do because in addition to having the conversation, you're advocating also for your listener. So you kind of have to put everything through the mind of your listener at the same time. You're kind of like body doubling, right? You're you, but you're also them, and making sure that it's delivering something that they can really use and implement. And I think that's hugely important. And I think advocating for your listener is the way that people end up loving your podcast uh and relating to it and connecting to it. Um, but it is a big job. It's hard. It's it's a skill that you practice over and over and over again. Yeah.

Advocate For Your Listener

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah. Very similar with speaking. And with speaking, I think you have to think about like yourself as the audience. What would you have wanted to happen if you had been sitting there listening to people speak for six hours? And then this woman got up on stage. Like, did you want to hear her memorized speech? Or, you know, being able to put yourself. I always try to think when I'm interviewing somebody, like, if I were listening to this podcast, that's the thing that drives me nuts. Is I listen to a podcast and the guest says something and I'm like, yeah, but how do you do that? Or like, what would that look like? Or what would the first step be, or whatever. I'm like, ask her the question. And then they're like, Emily 101. They're like, oh, I love that. Anywho, and very true with speaking too, right? Like you have to think about what is it that people who are listening to this really want to hear.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yeah, I think, you know, I think in every facet of it, we all learned it in kindergarten, right? It's the basic lesson. You treat other people how you want to be treated, right? If I'm going to be on a stage, I want to, what do I, what would I want to hear if I was an audience member? I took a huge break between my last speaking gig and when I started speaking again in 2025. I probably took two or three years off. I just did not want to be on a stage. But in that time I studied, okay, when I'm going to other events, what are people speaking about? How does it make me feel? Is this really what relevant? When I leave somewhere and it makes me feel like this was a waste of my time. Why do I feel that way? Because I never want someone to leave somewhere where I'm speaking or an event I'm at or I'm hosting, heaven forbid, and feel like it was a waste of their time or worse, a waste of their money. Because that's, you know, when someone commits dollars or time to you, that's a big investment. Whether it is monetarily a big investment, even their time, like that's a gift. And I think whether it's on a podcast, whether it's on a stage, you have to put yourself in that other person's shoes. I make sure that all of my public relations clients are prepped for that stage and they have that ahead of time. But I also make sure it's an honor to be invited on someone's stage. It's an honor to be asked to be on someone's podcast. You have to pull your own weight as a guest. Like you can't let the host, you can't let the MC do all the heavy lifting. You have to show up, you have to be engaged, you have to be excited about what you're talking about, and you have to provide some value to the listener, no matter what the platform is you're on, podcast stage, whatnot, or you're not going to be asked back. And I think too many people overlook, they take it for granted. Like, oh, I'm just on this stage and tomorrow I want to be on this bigger stage, or I'm not getting enough money for this, so I'm only going to put in minimal effort or things of that nature. And I think that's such a horrible mindset. It truly is a gift to be able to share your expertise with someone on any platform and to treat it any other way, I think is just sad. KJ, I genuinely do love that.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

And I agree. And I'm always saying this like a podcast interview is not just another appointment in your calendar. You know, it's you're really showing up. And a collaboration, I always say the best collaboration is one plus one equals way more than one. So you're showing up, you're both bringing your skill set to the table, and you're creating something that has literally never existed before. That is an incredible opportunity. And the person on the other side, like they've never heard this exact conversation before. That's amazing when you really think about it like that. I it gets me all excited. So um, I just want to echo what you say and really the importance and the gift of it to be able to collaborate with other people.

unknown 13:00

Yeah.

Rethinking Vanity Metrics

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Right. Because we've all been somewhere, right, where you feel like it's a cattle call. Like they're on a call with you, it's just another Zoom, or maybe it's Riverside, or maybe it's stringent, whatever it is, but you can tell they don't care. They're ready for the next thing. Maybe they have a dentist appointment, maybe lunch is in 15 minutes. Like you really know they're not paying attention to you, and you're just like, why am I here? Like you're literally just rattling off things as quick as you can to get me off here as fast as you can. What is the point? And you and on the stage too, you can tell when a speaker's heart's not in it, or they've done it too much, or they're phoning it in. Like, there's a reason why you show up, you're camera ready, you smile when you talk, you're engaged. Like, otherwise, don't bother because people can see through it. They can see when it's inauthentic, they can see when you don't want to be there. And if you truly don't want to be there, why are you there? You're wasting everyone's time.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah. These are really good points too. I think even for somebody who's listening, who's like, I have zero interest in being on a stage and I have zero interest in being on a podcast, right? Like I'm gonna ask you in a second about this, KJ, because I think when we think about PR, I mean, I think when most people think about PR, we think I don't need PR because I'm not, you know, Marie Forleo. Um, but I know that's not true. And I know that there's a lot more to PR than just speaking and podcasting, right? And I think everything that both of you are saying is relevant, whether you are sending an email to your email list, you are posting something on social media, you're writing a book, you're doing a guest blog post somewhere, right? Like we have such a tendency, and I don't know if this is an entrepreneur thing, if this is a woman thing, if this is just a human thing, to like nothing is enough, right? Like only five people read my email. Only 10 people clicked on that link. Only 50 people downloaded my podcast episode. But when you really stop and think about it, you're like, okay, that's like you think about how many emails we get in a day. And there were five people out there who thought whatever you had to say was important enough to actually read. There were 50 people out there who thought, like, they took 30 minutes of their really busy day to listen to your podcast because they thought what you had to say was important enough. And I don't think the value of that, whether it's a social media post or you speaking on stage for an hour really can be understated.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

No, I think, and I think you're right, because if you look, if you flip the terms of it, so many people are worried about the vanity metric of things. Like, how many downloads do I have? How many likes did this post get? How many views of my real Ben? Like how many people are on my email list? If there were five people following me on the street right now, I'd be a little nervous. If there were 50, I'd be heading to a police station. Like you have to, you know, if there's 250 people on your email list, that's more than enough people to fill a movie theater. Like you have to put it into perspective, right? It's definitely quality over quantity to an extent across everything, right? Like I have a huge Instagram following. I can tell you a majority of those people, yeah, they care about the PR stuff. They're, you know, they're engaging, they're wonderful. A lot of them, they just care what boots I'm wearing that day or my dogs. I have more requests for what my dogs are doing that I barely show than anything else. And so I think it's all just numbers are relative. Show up, provide quality, but you have to show up where your people are, where your audience is, and you have to keep engaging them and providing them what they need. But you also have to look at it from the lens of okay, today is one person, tomorrow might be five people, a month from now it might be 10. And if 10 people are buying your$1,000 service, that's amazing. That's a great month for you. If 10 people are following you on the street, like you be checking your shoulder, you know, like it's just it's all a mindset shift. And I think social media has spoiled us in so many great ways, but it also has kind of ruined us in a few. And I think everyone needs to just take a step back and a breath and realize hey, community shows up in a variety of different ways. And sometimes it's not in growth numbers.

Depth Over Algorithms

SPEAKER_01 17:02

I did a post on this just today because I'm I I think when we decide to show up because of numbers, like when there is a vanity metric attached, we show up in a different way. We show up like pandering to the algorithm or pandering to what we think is gonna get more eyeballs or more likes, or we're clickbaity, right? Or using trying to find these perfect little taglines that capture people's attention. When for me, what is more important, it's not that somebody's looking at something quick for five seconds because it's super snappy. It's that somebody is taking time to like really read the depth of what I'm writing. And I'm not gonna show, I decided it today. I'm like, I'm not doing that this year. Like, I I maybe it'll decrease my numbers and how many people see things, but I want to show up in a way where I am providing the depth or speaking the depth that I want to, and I can't do that. Like, sorry, but we most of us are too nuanced to to be, you know, 10, 10 words or less in a little social media caption. So show up as that, you know. And if you're if you're pandering to these numbers, it's really, really hard to be who you actually are.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Right. Yeah, right. And I think I think part of that too is it's free, right? Like you, if with the vanity mattress of things, you feel tied to something. I have to act this way, I have to post this way, I have to post this many times, I have to post by this time. It's all this pressure. I took two years off of social media, didn't post one time, and it didn't hurt my business at all. It didn't hurt my appearances, it didn't hurt any of the media coming my way, it didn't hurt my clients whatsoever. But what it did taught me, teach me is that I don't need to play the game. I post now when I want to post, what I want to post, how I want to post it, because I think it's funny and I reshare things that I like, and it's kind of brought joy back to the platform for me. But it's also taught me that okay, sometimes when I see the vanity metrics creeping in, I can see myself pulled to perform, kind of like a circus monkey. And I'm like, no, well, this is where we take a step back. It has to be fun, it has to matter to me. And outside of that, it's just noise that I don't need for my business or my goals.

PR For Non‑Speakers

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah, that's exactly why I'm so obsessed with threads right now. I don't know why I say right now because I've been talking about how obsessed I am with threads for a while now, but I just like that feels like such a space where you can just like say what you want to say. And I never think about like, I think it's probably because you don't have to have a graphic, you don't have to have a video, it doesn't have to be long. You can just be like, here's something funny, I thought in one sentence. And you made me think of this, KJ, because I did early on when I was like, I'm gonna use threads for my business. I'm gonna be really intentional and serious about this. And so I had someone who runs a threads course, a very popular threads course, do an audit of my threads profile. And so she went through it and was like, here's what's working, here's what's not working. The first thing she said when she sent me the audit was, I looked at your threads profile for 10 minutes and I can't even tell that you have a business or what your business is. And I was like, Good. Like this is why I like threads, right? Like, I'm just gonna do what I want to do over here. And maybe I'm gonna get a client, maybe I'm not, but I'm gonna be me and I'm gonna do what I want to do. And I think that that is what is resonating from reading the things that people submitted when they nominated each of you. That is what is resonating with people, right? It's not like Emily is perfect, all of her shows are perfectly scripted. She never makes a mistake, she like never tells a joke that's not funny. This is why Emily should win, right? It's like people love you because you are you, because you are real, because you're authentic. And same with you, KJ. It's not like she's the most polished speaker we've ever seen in our whole life, and everything is executed perfectly. It's like they talk about how your confidence is contagious, and the way that you tell a story feels like, you know, they're sitting down listening to somebody tell a story that's never been told before, and it's the most interesting story they've ever heard. And that really is what resonates with people so much more than like Emily has the most downloads.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

But wait, did somebody really say that one of my jokes wasn't funny? Because I can't handle that kind of criticism.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

She goes right to the negative.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

That's that's very tell me who told me the most tell me who said all my jokes are not funny. No one, no one would ever say that.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

I can tell already that all your jokes are funny.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

No doubt. No doubt. Um, okay, so gosh, I feel like I could talk to you guys forever. Where do I want to go with this? KJ, I want to circle back to something I said earlier about PR because I know that's your jam, and speaking is a big part of that. Tell us a little bit for people who are listening to this, like I said, who are like, I would rather do just about anything than get up on a stage and speak in front of people. Is PR still relevant to them and how?

Practical Advice For New Podcasters

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Oh, I think PR is more relevant than ever. PR isn't about speaking on stages. You can do a million things before you speak on stage. You don't have to speak on stage. There are a lot of people whose goal is to speak on stage or who love speaking on stage. But PR really is teaching people the way to think and talk about your brand when you're not in the room. It's just training people about how you want to have your business service offering promoted. I think so many people wait till they're a big deal or they're six or seven figure earner. When the truth is, public relations is perfect for the zero-dollar side hustlers startups to that six or seven figures. If you have a business, if you have a brand, if you have a brick and mortar, whatever it is, if you have a startup or an app, people can't fund you. They can't find you, they can't buy from you if they don't know you exist. And public relations is free, one, literally free, outside of maybe buying my book, maybe hiring a publicist to get you started the right way. It is a free avenue where you borrow other people's channels. Like I could borrow Emily's podcast. I'm speaking on this podcast now, and a whole new audience is learning about my expertise, my offerings. That I have a book, hint I have a book, you know, like those sorts of things are what PR does. It gives you a media's credible third-party seal of approval that vets you as an expert. And it helps you close sales and get customers faster than anything else could. Plus, also, it is free. It's free. Why would you not do a free thing?

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. I love that. Okay. Oh, I just quoted Emily. I love that. Okay, on to the next thing on my script and check. Um I'm gonna wrap up here in a minute, but before I do that, I want to ask each of you a question. So, Emily, I'm gonna start with you. What is one piece of advice that you would give to someone who is just starting out with podcasting or thinking about starting a podcast or has already done it? What what what's something that you wish that you knew when you were getting started?

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Okay, if you're just in the thinking about starting a podcast stage, I would say sit down or stand up at your standing desk, whatever you want, and list out like 50 episode ideas. Like, I'm not even kidding about that number. You're probably like, that's way more than I need to think about right now. It is, and it will keep you going when that inspiration well runs dry. I have like a hundred of them, and new ones are flooding in all the time. If you can't come up with 50, I don't think that you're going to be able to survive the long game of podcasting. And that's okay. I mean, you know, there's definitely uh podcasts that do it just for a little bit. They do limited series and things like that. That is totally fine. If you want one that is like going to be ongoing, I would challenge yourself to come up with those 50 topics. If you've already got an established podcast, my biggest hands-down tip is it doesn't, I mean, whether you're speaking or podcasting, guesting or hosting, speak like you are speaking to just one person in the audience. When I'm a host, I like to sit down and I actually envision I am doing this episode for Melissa. I am doing this episode for Christy, I'm doing this episode for Amy. Like I think about that person, maybe something that they've recently told me about that they're struggling with, and I just talk to them the entire time. So that's my biggest piece of advice. People can feel it on the other side. The specific is universal, as they say in the writing world. It really does help to make like that content you're sharing very, very human and very, very relatable. The thing I see counter to that is like when people are talking to, you know, they think like thousands of people are listening and they say, like, hey listeners, hey everyone, it just feels like a little bit disconnected. So I love speaking to just one person at a time. Hey, friend, hey, listener, hey Amy. I will say her name sometimes. So, you know, things like that.

Honest Goals For PR And Stages

SPEAKER_02 25:51

I love that. That's great advice. And to piggyback off what you said earlier, too, I would say, whether you are podcast guesting or hosting, force yourself to listen to yourself. I know you don't like it. Nobody likes it. And this is probably true for speaking too, right? Like I, when I was getting preparing to speak on the biggest stage I'd ever spoken on, I recorded my speech like on a voice memo and I listened to it over and over and over and over again. And it was cringy every single time. But it sure was better when I did it on stage than it was that first time I did it on the recording, right? And same with podcasting. Like I listened to some of the, it's been a while, but listening to some of the like very first episodes I did of my first podcast, I'm like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

But I didn't know. I think it's important though, on all aspects. Like, I challenge every one of my clients, every media interview you do, you have to read it. You have to watch it, you have to listen to it. Because if you're not going to, why do you think anyone else would want to? And I'm always shocked when I like the Hollywood celebrities are like, oh, I don't watch my interviews, I don't read my press, or I don't watch my movies that I'm in. But then how do you not know? Like, you don't need to watch it from like a brutally critical point of view, right? Like no one's asking you to be a movie critic about it. But at the same time, how do you not know where there's areas to improve? Or if you're saying like 900 times and that's something you have to rein in, or if you're doing some weird thing with your eyes when they're recording you on a camera and you're like, oh, gotta focus on this. Or, you know, like I do nervous hair flipping. I'm sure I've nervously hair flipped my hair a million times in this. And so all of those things, it helps you get better at your messaging, it helps you be a better performer, it helps you be a better guest, but it also helps you get better at your craft and your messaging. You have to listen. That's like a once you said that, Emily. I was like, Yeah, that's amazing advice. You should always be listening to yourself. Always.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yeah. My thing was amazing. I had no idea how many times I said amazing until I started listening to it. That and I thought I was like doing a really good job being an active listener. So when I would interview people, I would be like, Oh, mm-hmm. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And then when I listened to it back, I was like, you are so distracting. So now I sit here quietly. I used to have a little sticky note up on the screen that's like, here's 10 things you can say other than amazing. And that helped also. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

That's a really good idea, actually. Having little backup phrases when you do find yourself saying, I always say vice versa. My husband's like, it's vice versa, not vice versa, A. And you say it all the time. So yeah, catching yourself and being like, here's some alternative options for you, my dear.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah, yeah. You might need to bust out a little sticky note there, M. Um, KJ, how about for you? Advice that you have for people who are just starting to think about PR or they're just starting to think about speaking on stage, or it's something that they really want to do or want to do more of, what advice would you give them?

Where To Find Emily And KJ

SPEAKER_00 28:52

My advice would be to figure out why. Why do you really want to be on stage? Why do you think that you need PR? Like, what is your main end goal? For some, it just might be an ego thing, like, I want to see myself on stage. Like, this is the next logical step for me. And for other people, it's like, this is how I'm going to reach my people. So I think if you, whether it's PR, speaking on stage, whatever it is you do, know what your main goal is. Because nine times out of 10, how you get to that goal is finding the audience that helps you get there. And that audience, they might not be watching people on stages. So then you might be spending all your time, energy, money on stages and not seeing any ROI from it. You're like, wait, I'm on stages. How do people not know who I am? Why are they not buying my things? Well, that's because that's not where your people are. But if you're true on your goal and you found that and you've been honest about who your target audience is, everything from there falls in place, whether you just need to be on podcasts, whether you just need to be in print, whether you just need to be online, or whether you truly do need to be on those stages. I think it's important for us, especially as female founders, we can do anything all on a Tuesday, right? Like millions and millions of things great at multitasking, but then we're tired and we're burnt out and we can't be our best selves. And so I think it's being very clear like, here's who I serve and what I really want to do. Here's my end goal. How do I serve those people? And I think if you work your way backwards, you're gonna easily find the solution. Here's where I need to invest my time. Here's truly where I need to be.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

That's brilliant. Yeah, I love the idea of thinking about why is that what you want to do? And that's that's honestly such a good question for pretty much anything in business, right? That's that's the thing that stops us from like anytime someone asks me that question, I'm like, wait, why do I? Like, is it because I saw Susie and Jane and they're both doing it? And so then I was like, well, I need to do that too. Or is it because like I just feel like that's where everybody is, that's the next thing to do, that's what everybody else is doing, or is there like a real legitimate logical reason that I want to do it? Even if it is just that I want to see my face on stage. That's legit.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

That's legit. That's really good advice. Truly, like the ego is a great, is a great motivator, right? It can get you to do so many things. It can also get you to do so many things that don't move the needle or help you reach your goals. And I think as long as you're honest with yourself, look, I do at least three things a year that are purely only ego-driven, and there is no ROI, and most of the time it's a boondoggle that costs a ton of money. I still do them to satisfy that little itch. And then I go back to the practical things. So I think I think it's just being well aware of who you are, who you serve, and what you truly want to do. Then you can play with the fun things that are just for your ego. Yeah, absolutely. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Okay, so before we wrap up, Emily, I would love for you to share. Um, if anybody's listening to this podcast and they want to know more about you, they want to know more about you do what you do. Your copywriting is amazing. I've worked with you several times on several things. Um, I will definitely put the link to your podcast in the show notes. Um, but where else can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Thank you. Um, like KJ, I like to hang out on Instagram mostly. So my handle on Instagram or whatever they call it now is just Emily Aborne, my first and last name. That's like where you can find me everywhere. Um, but if you want to know all the places that I am, you can go to my website, emilyaborn.com. Easiest way to get to your favorite platform. And I would love to have you come listen to my podcast. We will have so much fun. I will give you a personal welcome. If you write me a review that has your name in it, I will give you a personal hello.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

You will be the one person she speaks to in that episode. For better or worse. What about you, KJ? If people want to connect with you, they want to learn more about your um PR services. Definitely I will put the link for your book in the show notes. But where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

You can find me at hearsaypr.com. That's h-e-a-r-sa-y-pr.com, or I'm hanging out on Instagram at KJ Blattenbauer. And like you, also KJ Blattenbauer on Threads, where I have no strategy and completely unhinged, and will probably just cheer on every bad decision that you're making.

Closing Gratitude

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Lovely. I love it. I'm sure I'm following you on threads. And if I'm not, I that was a good pitch for me to go do so. Thank you so much, you guys. Congratulations again on your awards. Those are so awesome. I hope you feel so proud of yourselves. We got so many amazing nominations, so many people voted, and um, the things that people said about you were just so beautiful. So, congratulations. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing in the world and what you are doing for female entrepreneurs everywhere. You are absolutely two of the most powerful women rising that I know. And I appreciate you guys coming on the podcast. Oh, thank you. Thanks so much for having us.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Thank you for having us.