Krisstal Clayton: Teaching with Heart, Empowering Students, and Unpacking Introductory Psychology

Krisstal D. Clayton, a clinical professor, director of undergraduate programs, and associate chair of academics for the Department of Psychology at the University of North Texas, recently sat down with PsychSessions' Garth Neufeld for an in-depth discussion of all things teaching psychology. She discusses how heavy workloads, commuting, work, and caregiving contribute to students' AI use. She also argues for explicitly teaching AI literacy, its limits, and responsible use. 

Krisstal describes building connection and engagement in a 210-student lecture hall through weekly team activities, team exams, and gamified, real-world assignments (including an ultra-processed “Texas State Fair food” concept-mapping activity). She explains her approach to required reading, attendance-based course design, and Sage Vantage quizzes to track learning and spot irregularities. 

She also discusses becoming first author on a new edition of an Intro Psych textbook (Essentials of Psychology, Second Edition), what pedagogical features they kept (“What’s Your Prediction?” and applied examples), and updates she “went hard” on, including a methods-focused chapter, mindfulness and wellness content, and topics driven by student needs (sleep, social media/mental health, vaping, neurodiversity).

About the Author

Krisstal D. Clayton is a clinical professor and director of undergraduate programs in the Department of Psychology at the University of North Texas. Known for her engaging teaching style, she uses gamification, storytelling, and real-world examples to bring psychology to life. Her research often includes student collaboration, with a focus on how higher education shapes perspectives. 

Outside of academia, Krisstal is a yoga enthusiast, vinyl collector, NPR podcast fan, and proud dog mom to Arya and Phoebe. She’s also a music lover who creates playlists for her students and loses her voice at concerts—Stevie Nicks forever!

This episode brought to you by Sage Vantage. Learn more at collegepublishing.sagepub.com/vantage.

Transcript

00:00:00:22 - 00:00:13:07
Garth Neufeld, PsychSessions Host
Hey folks, I am here today with doctor Krisstal Clayton, who is a professor of psychology at the University of North Texas. Krisstal. Welcome to PsychSessions.

00:00:13:10 - 00:00:18:01
Krisstal Clayton, Sage Author and Professor of Psychology, University of North Texas
Hi. Thank you so much. I cannot tell you how excited I am to be here.

00:00:18:03 - 00:00:42:08
Garth Neufeld
Oh, that's so that's so great. Well, we're excited to have you. And the more that I get to know about you, the more I think, we probably should have got you on the podcast a while ago, because you just seem. Well, you you can tell me if these things are true or not, but I, I just I sense a real passion for teaching and a passion for students.

00:00:42:10 - 00:00:42:25
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah.

00:00:42:28 - 00:00:54:21
Garth Neufeld
Yeah. And I don't know, like, maybe just off the bat if that resonates with you. Can you tell us how did you. Because I think your background is clinical, right?

00:00:54:23 - 00:01:12:11
Krisstal Clayton
No. Oh, yeah. So at UT, we have, different tracks. So they call me a clinical professor because I'm a professor of practice in teaching. Got up to the applied track title.

00:01:12:11 - 00:01:13:05
Garth Neufeld
They went with.

00:01:13:06 - 00:01:15:16
Krisstal Clayton
Yes, yes. Well, they went with so.

00:01:15:16 - 00:01:18:21
Garth Neufeld
Many of our colleagues. Institutions are trying to figure that out right now.

00:01:18:23 - 00:01:21:04
Krisstal Clayton
Yes they are. It's very confusing.

00:01:21:06 - 00:01:31:15
Garth Neufeld
Yeah. So that's an interesting choice in psychology to call it that. Is it is it clinical in other disciplines as well?

00:01:31:17 - 00:01:39:19
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah. So we have several clinical faculty which have different types of expertise that they apply, whether that's in the classroom research or service. Yeah.

00:01:39:19 - 00:01:53:27
Garth Neufeld
Okay. Yeah. Fascinating. Okay. Well then that's great. See, I'll be the first one to mess up something in this interview. And then my guests don't even have to worry about it. But no. That's fascinating. So what is your area, then, in psychology?

00:01:53:29 - 00:02:12:01
Krisstal Clayton
I was raised in the field as a social psychologist. Very much a generalist. My faculty advisor, David, to female, was just super pumped about the research, had his hands and all the different areas. And right now he's tackling the philosophy of statistics.

00:02:12:03 - 00:02:13:07
Garth Neufeld
Wow. Okay.

00:02:13:08 - 00:02:14:18
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah, yeah.

00:02:14:20 - 00:02:34:21
Garth Neufeld
That's. Maybe we'll get back to him, I'm sure. I'm sure as a mentor, that was interesting to work with somebody who had so many different answers. Right. Yeah. So how do you how do you think about teaching these days? So much is changing. Yeah. With with with tech and AI and everything. How are your students doing?

00:02:34:21 - 00:02:37:22
Garth Neufeld
Let's just talk about that, because I know you got a teacher's hearts, you know?

00:02:37:25 - 00:03:09:06
Krisstal Clayton
Yes. Yeah. Right now, I've got 625 students. We are in finals week, so I've got a lot of students, you know, sending me emails and wanting to meet with me. So I've been lucky enough to observe both the face to face arena of teaching this semester, as well as the online arena of teaching this semester. And I'm noticing with Gen Z, there is definitely a struggle for wellness.

00:03:09:08 - 00:03:32:08
Krisstal Clayton
How to stay on task. They're also struggling with, attention. So how do we make the reading exciting? And then how do we make them want to come to class? Because something else I've noticed about Gen Z, which I really appreciate, is they always want to know why. Why does this matter? Why should I be here? Why do I need to learn this?

00:03:32:09 - 00:04:07:05
Krisstal Clayton
Right? And so I'm really being pushed in a great way to constantly answer the why. Why should you come to class? Why should you do this particular activity? And I know that some faculty are definitely reaching out to me, asking questions about what do I do with AI as well? Because now we have that in the mix. So I have been exposed to a lot of AI usage, especially in my online classes.

00:04:07:07 - 00:04:37:02
Krisstal Clayton
I have a meeting with every single one of them, and that's several I've got. About 40% of my online students have been using AI this semester, and I have about 350 online students, I believe. Wow. Yeah. And they are sharing with me that the top reasons they're using AI is because they are overwhelmed. They're having to work a full time job to help put themselves through school, or they're also caregivers for a family member.

00:04:37:04 - 00:05:00:03
Krisstal Clayton
And then they also have to take 12 to 15 hours to stay fully enrolled so that they can have their financial aid and they're commuting. So you ant is very much a commuter university. We have people coming in from all over DFW. So these students are running out of time to do their work. And so they're cognitively unloading a lot of that.

00:05:00:03 - 00:05:26:12
Krisstal Clayton
On to I. And these conversations are very candid. And I very much have a bleeding heart for my students. And I've had several of them share with me everything they're struggling with. So I try to take the opportunity to even ask students do you know what I even does? Do you know how it works? And do you know how I'm able to recognize that you used AI in this assignment?

00:05:26:14 - 00:05:47:13
Krisstal Clayton
And they are flabbergasted. They have no clue how I even works. What do you mean? It's kicking out almost the same thing in my answer that it's kicking out for everybody else. I'm like, yes. It's not a unique thinker. Even though we call it artificial intelligence. So to explain that to students has really revealed to me that I need to do a better job teaching students.

00:05:47:13 - 00:06:17:16
Krisstal Clayton
What does I even do? Because they're not experts. And the truth is, you need to be an expert in that area to know how to use the AI, because we also know that AI makes mistakes. So how are you even going to see the mistakes? Identify them if you don't really, truly understand the field yourself. And students are depending on AI to know all of the answers, and they find out the hard way that the AI does not have all of the answers.

00:06:17:18 - 00:06:41:16
Garth Neufeld
You're doing a really nice job of articulating, like our heart for students and for student learning. Like we really want them to get it, but also there are these barriers. And I think in earlier, earlier in my career, I'm in mid-career now, and I think earlier in my career, I look back and see the way I dealt with these kinds of things that would just maybe get labeled as cheating or something like that.

00:06:41:19 - 00:07:03:06
Garth Neufeld
I like your perspective, because there's a lot of context involved. And I think still, there's probably a case to be made on the other side of, hey, you can go too far with understanding, but I love that you are educating students about it. You know, but it seems like these days we're supposed to be teaching. I don't know if this is an intro class or what, but, but yeah, you're you're nodding.

00:07:03:06 - 00:07:24:12
Garth Neufeld
So. Yeah, it's an intro class, and we're supposed to be teaching all the content of intro and probably something about study skills and, and just like being a student. And now we're supposed to tackle AI too, and walk our students through it. And you're, you've got all these students you have to manage. I think this is like a major question on people's minds right now.

00:07:24:12 - 00:07:40:05
Garth Neufeld
So I just love to hear how do you think through all the time you devote to that in an age where, like burnout, it's a real thing for us, right? So how do you like how do you do it? And maybe, maybe you're going to tell me I'm a terrible example, Garth.

00:07:40:08 - 00:08:02:05
Krisstal Clayton
Not well, not to do it. Like, for my own burnout. Honestly, I do a lot of yoga. I'm a certified yoga teacher, so that kind of helps me go. Okay, I need to check out of this, check into my mat and be mindful. And I'm always revisiting, why are students doing this? Why are students using AI? What does the average student user of AI even look like?

00:08:02:08 - 00:08:24:23
Krisstal Clayton
And I'm not going to know the answer to that question unless I meet with them and actually have these conversations. And that has been an excessive amount of my hours this semester, but it's information I have to have if I'm going to keep being an effective teacher, because AI is not going anywhere. And we know that I can be used in very positive ways.

00:08:24:26 - 00:08:46:23
Krisstal Clayton
But I have to, you know, from my own perspective of whom I am as a teacher, I have to invest in my students to make sure that they can be effective users of AI. So I think what I'm going to really have to do is maybe create my own streaming lecture for my online classes that I can also deliver to my face to face classes in person.

00:08:46:26 - 00:09:09:22
Krisstal Clayton
That kind of opens up the semester and talks about what is AI, what are my policies, how does it work? How can I use it effectively and let them know that I promised them I'll have an assignment where they can actually see where it is I go wrong, how do we correct it, and what does that contribute to a 21st century skills in the workplace?

00:09:09:24 - 00:09:34:07
Krisstal Clayton
Because we also know employers are looking for these 21st century skills, right. And what I adore about psychology and I think we haven't, you know, really been welcomed into the business world for this is we teach our students all of these. We are handling cognitive, digital and interpersonal and interpersonal skills, but we kind of get pigeonholed for just the interpersonal and interpersonal.

00:09:34:07 - 00:09:58:07
Krisstal Clayton
They're like, oh, psychology right. Empathy and communication and leadership, which absolutely, we do that. But we're also nailing the cognitive and the digital. And nobody really talks about that except us within the field. We know we have a lot to offer. So I also really appreciated the, APA's, IP initiatives with research as the foundation, because that's what it is.

00:09:58:07 - 00:10:19:08
Krisstal Clayton
The CS research skills teaching students all of these research skills very early on. It starts harnessing those cognitive and digital powers that they're going to need to become effective users of AI and effective people in the workplace with these 21st century skills. So I think that's where I'm going now. Yeah. No, that's easy.

00:10:19:09 - 00:10:34:11
Garth Neufeld
That's great. I mean, we know we know that, our students are going to be employed and, and so giving them an education that is actually relevant, when they get out of our institutions is really, really important.

00:10:34:13 - 00:10:35:20
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah.

00:10:35:22 - 00:10:53:17
Garth Neufeld
Okay. So how are you seeing your students? In kind of other new ways post-pandemic. We're five years. Are we five years after the pandemic? You've almost six. It's been a lot. What other challenges? What are you seeing in your student body?

00:10:53:19 - 00:11:20:23
Krisstal Clayton
My students are having a really hard time, kind of bouncing back with resilience. So when something happens to them that maybe, let's say they failed an assignment or they just realized that because I've been coming to class, that they're probably not going to make that a, that their parents kind of are demanding that they make. I've have several students in that situation and they don't know how to cope with that.

00:11:20:25 - 00:11:48:00
Krisstal Clayton
They, don't have these, I guess, mechanisms because they've never really thought about it and tackled it. And that also comes from not having a strong social network. They've been so much on their screens that they're not having these face to face moments where they're building friendships and they have the people in their lives who can pop in and check on them and give them advice and feedback.

00:11:48:03 - 00:12:15:13
Krisstal Clayton
So I'm also noticing that they're pretty isolated. They're not sure how to make friends, and now I have to take that on as well in my classroom, which has been such a fun challenge for me this semester. I've got 210 freshmen in Intro to Psychology face to face class, and I know that something that makes sure they stay enrolled and engaged is if they have a friend to come to class to meet with, right?

00:12:15:16 - 00:12:37:21
Krisstal Clayton
So if I have someone I'm looking forward to joining and talking to and we have something in common, then that's a big motivator to get into the classroom, right? So I decided to do team activities in a room of 210 students. I do a team activity every week. I'm constantly walking around, how can I help you listening to what they're saying to one another?

00:12:37:24 - 00:13:04:25
Krisstal Clayton
It gives me an opportunity to make real relationships with these students, and then I'm putting them in team exams, which is the first time I've done this for such a large class. And I was so thrilled. I collected data at the end of the semester where they rate their peers, and I had them answer some pretty basic survey questions about did you develop your collaboration skills as a result of these team activities?

00:13:04:28 - 00:13:29:01
Krisstal Clayton
Did you make a friend in this class and will you stay in contact with at least one person from your team after this class ends? And I was so pleasantly surprised by the data that yes, I'm making friends. I'm building my collaboration skills and more likely than not, I'm going to stay in contact with at least one person from this team.

00:13:29:03 - 00:13:51:11
Garth Neufeld
I love it. You've solved a problem that I've heard from so many people who teach large sections. And that is how to make them feel small and how to get students connected. Like, how do I think the content. We're lucky that we teach a discipline that connects to most students just quite naturally. Right? It's yeah. As my friend Jane Hallinan says, it's really hard to mess.

00:13:51:14 - 00:14:15:25
Garth Neufeld
It's hard to mess up psychology. Like in terms of interest for students. And if you're. Yeah, I think she says it more cynically than that. But, yeah. So like, I, I just know you have a limited amount of time and if you're prioritizing things like this, your sacrificing something, right? We can't say yes to everything. So can you just tell me.

00:14:15:28 - 00:14:30:25
Garth Neufeld
And especially for people who are listening, who have large classrooms and hold on, I guess I want to ask a quick question first, which is what is the architecture of your classroom like? Is it a big is it a big like call? What? Yes. What is it?

00:14:30:27 - 00:14:32:22
Krisstal Clayton
It's a hall. It's a huge lecture hall.

00:14:32:28 - 00:14:33:09
Garth Neufeld
Okay.

00:14:33:09 - 00:14:37:13
Krisstal Clayton
And we have, tables, movable tables and chairs.

00:14:37:16 - 00:14:38:15
Garth Neufeld
All right.

00:14:38:17 - 00:14:40:29
Krisstal Clayton
And then so it's nice here.

00:14:41:01 - 00:14:46:15
Garth Neufeld
It's not like teared up like in my intro to psychology class. It was like theater seating.

00:14:46:18 - 00:15:16:10
Krisstal Clayton
But yeah, we don't have great theater seating. It's kind of a slight slope. Right. Okay. Yeah. And there's a lobby area right outside of the room. And I'm pretty lucky at UNT because in most of our buildings, with these really large lecture halls, there's a there's a big lobby right outside the door. Right. So I've got students kind of clustering wherever some students are on the floor, some students are right outside in the garden area, some are in the lobby.

00:15:16:12 - 00:15:44:25
Krisstal Clayton
And I kind of let them go be and do wherever they're comfortable. And then I have had to change my walking shoes. My right. So I now make sure I'm like, okay, we're in we're in flat shoes today because I'm going to be huffing it, right? Yeah. But I really have enjoyed the walking around and listening to their conversations because they really, truly are diving into the topic and they're looking things up and they're having you fantastic conversations.

00:15:44:27 - 00:16:03:05
Krisstal Clayton
And then they stop me and they ask questions, and I get to actually help them in real time. And that helps me do a check on I need to cover this a little bit better. Maybe I didn't do this right in lecture. So how do I improve for next semester? So it's also a great way for me to keep learning about my teaching.

00:16:03:08 - 00:16:22:14
Krisstal Clayton
And they give me all of these great examples I would never know existed because I'm not, you know, tuned into their music and I really try hard with their social media and YouTube, but I'm going to miss some stuff. So they also give me these wonderful examples that I can recycle to keep connecting with students.

00:16:22:17 - 00:16:43:13
Garth Neufeld
So when you're giving them these team activities and I'll get back to my original question for listeners who are like, why didn't he get back to his original question? I'll get back to that. But but, when you're doing this, what is their motivation? Because I think you've talked about engagement in the past as well. And what is their motivation for doing these teams assignments?

00:16:43:15 - 00:16:59:07
Garth Neufeld
During class or these, you know, these conversations? Why are they doing them and not just, you know, having a side conversation or on their phones?

00:16:59:09 - 00:17:23:02
Krisstal Clayton
I've never asked them why they're doing the work. However, I'm trying to use my good principles of learning as well as this is worth a decent amount of points. So you got to get here, right? And I've also learned that about, Gen Z as well as, millennials is a lot of gamification. We grew up with playing the video games.

00:17:23:04 - 00:18:02:11
Krisstal Clayton
So if I'm going to connect points to something you are much more likely to come here and do the work, right. But I'm also trying to connect it to things that I know matter to students because of the several conversations I've had with them, and one team activity I created that was new this semester was trying to teach them about ultra processed foods connected to the sensation and perception chapter and intro, as well as the bio, chapter and intro because I wanted them to learn about ultra processed foods and how they're engineered for pretty much, us becoming addicted to these fats and sweets and salt.

00:18:02:13 - 00:18:34:19
Krisstal Clayton
And students don't think about psychologists as people who help engineer food, right? They often stereotype us as, oh, clinical and counseling. Right. We're here to help people. I'm like, no, no, we're also engineering your food. So I created a team activity where they have to create their own ultra processed food for the Texas State Fair. For those of you who might not be aware, the Texas State Fair is incredibly famous for the just outrageous food concoctions.

00:18:34:21 - 00:18:56:12
Krisstal Clayton
That they sell at the State Fair. And even during Covid, people were lined up in parking lot just to get the state fair food, even though they couldn't participate in the rides or any of the activities. It's that big of a deal. So they had to create their own state fair, ultra processed food, and then draw a concept map for me to show.

00:18:56:14 - 00:19:21:05
Krisstal Clayton
How do these different ingredients connect to right dopamine pleasure pathways? What are we lighting up? What's going on with your taste buds? What about your old factory receptors and they had a blast and the foods they came up with. I can honestly see them making their way to the state fair. And then I had a competition. My Tas decided which one of these state fair foods would I honestly want to try?

00:19:21:05 - 00:19:31:00
Krisstal Clayton
So we had first, second and third place winners. And I kid you not, they got to be creative. They learned the science behind it. We had a competition. It's a laugh.

00:19:31:02 - 00:19:53:08
Garth Neufeld
I celebrate those moments where you pull off your assignment that because you never know how it's going to go, right? But when you develop something that really connects with students, it brings fun to learning and then, and brings your students all together, like 200 of them. I'm sure they were really interested in what won the top three prizes.

00:19:53:08 - 00:20:14:25
Garth Neufeld
Right. So, but okay, so you did mention something Regan Gurung and I have talked a long time about. Can a student earn an A without coming to your class? Especially in, like, large classrooms. We go back and forth as we talk about that, and we know there's different philosophies on it, but it sounds like you've gone the direction of you really need to be here.

00:20:14:25 - 00:20:17:27
Garth Neufeld
If this is a face to face class, can you talk about that a little bit?

00:20:17:29 - 00:20:31:16
Krisstal Clayton
Yes. I do not structure my class so that students can get an A if they're not attending. I don't and I also structure my class in a way that I need them to read, take a reading quiz and then you come to lecture.

00:20:31:18 - 00:20:32:13
Garth Neufeld
Yeah.

00:20:32:15 - 00:21:08:00
Krisstal Clayton
So I still believe that reading is absolutely fundamental, especially with this generation of students who are reading far less than the generations I have taught previously. So I want them to be exposed to the power of reading and how important it is, and then we can have really meaningful conversations during lecture. And so that helps me become also more efficient, and that I can focus on the concepts that I know are much more difficult for students to understand that in my experience, they really grapple with these things like independent and dependent variables and operant versus classical conditioning.

00:21:08:06 - 00:21:14:07
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah, like these things can stop students. So I get to focus more on that because I know that they've read that they're showing. Yeah.

00:21:14:10 - 00:21:36:21
Garth Neufeld
Yeah I learned that trick I don't know strategy like a long time ago. And I still use it. I do have a question about, the quizzing because I do the same thing. It's changed a little bit. Like, I used to do this intro teaching strategy where I actually had them write things up, like question answers to questions, but I kind of ruined that a little bit.

00:21:36:24 - 00:21:52:22
Garth Neufeld
So I pivoted. But, with the quizzing, a lot of people are doing these multiple choice sorts of check ins on the like after the reading happens, then multiple choice sort of quiz. I imagine you use probably vantage for that. Is that right?

00:21:52:25 - 00:22:00:23
Krisstal Clayton
For two of my classes. Yeah, that I have that is access to. Absolutely. And that has helped me become very efficient.

00:22:00:25 - 00:22:29:10
Garth Neufeld
Yeah, yeah. But how do you. Because this is a struggle I'm having right now, and I actually don't care so much. I haven't solved this problem yet. But how do I know that the online quizzes are actually assessing what they learn from the readings? And they're not just poking around and dropping those quiz questions into I. In fact, I think I know the answer, which is that they they don't I can't I can't determine that necessarily.

00:22:29:13 - 00:22:39:01
Garth Neufeld
But is that how you do it? Do you are these multiple choice kind of questions. You're checking in with them about their reading, before they come to class. Is that what you're doing?

00:22:39:03 - 00:23:04:07
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah. So what I really like about vantage is that it's got these knowledge checks as well as the reading quizzes. So I can see how they're performing and the knowledge checks as they go through each chunk, right, of reading this, assigned to them. And then we've got the reading quiz at the end. And in vantage I allow students to take it twice and I'll take the average of these two scores.

00:23:04:10 - 00:23:30:27
Krisstal Clayton
But in vantage, what it's very helpful, in my opinion, is it has just this, repository of like 45 questions and then it's going to pull 15 for the first attempt, and then it's going to pull 15 different ones for the second attempt. So I get to run a report and I get to see, okay, what concepts connected to these learning outcomes did you consistently get correct and which concepts connected to these learning outcomes did you not get correct?

00:23:30:28 - 00:23:54:21
Krisstal Clayton
Great. And then I can also look at how long did you spend in this quiz. Because that's also helped me with kind of tackling this I issue is if you're doing this in two minutes, 15 questions and you got a perfect score, then I'm like, something's not adding up here. But if they're digging into the textbook while they're answering the questions, I'm perfectly fine with that.

00:23:54:21 - 00:24:15:06
Krisstal Clayton
You're digging into the textbook. At least it's motivating you somehow to get into the content to try to find the answer. And the truth is, I use Google all the time in a similar way. I can't remember every piece of research I've read and who wrote it, and that means I've got to go into a search bar and pull it up, and then figure out what's the right answer.

00:24:15:09 - 00:24:23:26
Krisstal Clayton
If students are doing that with a quiz advantage and they're pulling up the text to try to search for the answer, that's fine with me. Yeah, like I'm okay with that.

00:24:23:29 - 00:24:45:24
Garth Neufeld
Yeah, yeah, that's a nice way to think about it. I and and to bring kind of reality back, I think the days of old where this tech just didn't exist, like, those are gone and we can't long for them. We need to have better strategies, better ways of thinking about them. I it's a little bit of a mistake to just try to recreate the past.

00:24:45:24 - 00:24:55:25
Garth Neufeld
I think we're beyond it at this point. But, we should also mention, too, that, the textbook that you probably use is probably your textbook. I imagine it's.

00:24:55:25 - 00:24:57:03
Krisstal Clayton
Yes. Okay.

00:24:57:05 - 00:25:17:14
Garth Neufeld
So I was thinking about that a little bit because I noticed a couple of things. One, you, I, I think you all have a new edition coming out right away, and you are taking the first author role on that new edition at this point. Yeah. How did that come about? Like what goes into your I think it's a workload difference, right?

00:25:17:15 - 00:25:22:14
Garth Neufeld
Being a third author to go. It's going to be first author. What do you.

00:25:22:17 - 00:25:25:07
Krisstal Clayton
Do. Yeah significantly.

00:25:25:08 - 00:25:45:15
Garth Neufeld
Yeah I so did you have to think through and everybody I'm coming back to that other question that I had before. But did you have to think through like, where am I going to find time and make space to do this? Or are you or or are you a person who just says, yes a lot?

00:25:45:17 - 00:26:09:07
Krisstal Clayton
I often say yes too much to too many times, and I should write. I really had to work on myself with good boundaries. However, I would consider myself first and foremost a psychology fangirl. So when I was given this opportunity to jump on to this book and, you know, meet Saul Carson, because I also teach forensic psychology.

00:26:09:07 - 00:26:34:08
Krisstal Clayton
So I've been following Carson's work for a very long time. And how do you say no to that? So so when I jumped on, I was also pumped about the pedagogy. I had never seen his intro book before, and I was already using a lot of the pedagogical methods that Carson was using in his edition of this intro book back in the early 2000.

00:26:34:10 - 00:26:59:03
Krisstal Clayton
So I just poured myself into it because I was having so much fun, I loved it. I thought it might be like writing my dissertation. Nope, not even close. I got to learn so much cool stuff that was out there that I never would have touched had I not have this opportunity. So for this second edition, Saul was like, you know, I've been doing this a long time.

00:26:59:03 - 00:27:23:24
Krisstal Clayton
I think I'm ready to start heading towards retirement. And then the, my other coauthor, Greg Vitara, has so many textbooks. I mean, I have no idea how he juggles all of these textbooks. And then he had a new offer pop up to write a health, health statistics book. Yeah, with one of his very dear colleagues. And he was like, I'm going to do it.

00:27:23:24 - 00:27:46:07
Krisstal Clayton
I'm like, you should. It's it's your dream, right? But my dream is intro and intro text. So I'm going to, you know, just jump all in and go for it. So I had, you know, just enough warning that this might happen, that I was like, okay, I'm going to apply for a sabbatical just in case. I just want to be prepared.

00:27:46:09 - 00:28:02:27
Krisstal Clayton
And sure enough, I got my sabbatical. And then sage was like, okay, let's get let's get this party started. So I've been writing nonstop since I'd say last August. Just constant writing.

00:28:02:27 - 00:28:06:10
Garth Neufeld
Yeah, that's a year. That's a year in like four months, right?

00:28:06:13 - 00:28:31:29
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And and you know, it's not just here's my one chapter suite I walk away. No, no, it's here's my chapter revise chapter revise chapter revise. Yeah. Then we would do images and figures and then, you know, put all my citations in the right order. And I was so lucky to have a really good team. And Emma Newsome in particular, like jumped on organization like really helped with the workflow.

00:28:32:01 - 00:28:40:13
Krisstal Clayton
So I never could have achieved any of this without a fantastic team. So it was not just me. I promised you that I.

00:28:40:15 - 00:29:00:29
Garth Neufeld
I talked to a lot of textbook authors. I'm friends with, a lot of them I know, I've, I have heard, how demanding it is, also how rewarding it is. But, congratulations for coming through that because I think you guys, you're you're about to launch, right? I think the team is, like, thinking January or something.

00:29:01:01 - 00:29:13:02
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah. So I just finished all of the proofs, reviewing them, adding any last minute corrections I could. I think I just submitted those last week.

00:29:13:04 - 00:29:37:26
Krisstal Clayton
So I'm still in this moment of, is it real? Am I really going to be a first author of this textbook? Not is is it going to be beautiful and our students going to love it? And is it going to have everything instructors need? Because while I absolutely adore students and they are very much my purpose, I'm also an educator who, yes, as you mentioned earlier, knows what real burnout is like.

00:29:37:26 - 00:30:07:06
Krisstal Clayton
So I want to also make sure that this book has a lot of things that can support instructors so that they can hopefully reduce their chances of burnout and focus on what they do best, instead of having to spend their wheels coming up with these great real world examples that resonate with the current generation and develop, you know, quizzes and I, I'm really hopeful that this is going to have a lot of what they're going to need to get started.

00:30:07:08 - 00:30:28:21
Garth Neufeld
I love this story for authors who are coming on to titles and then kind of moving up the author list because it happens more often than you think. And like some of my other friends who have written, they started as reviewers for a textbook that they like. Right. And so they had been using that book and then they were really valuable reviewers.

00:30:28:21 - 00:30:37:13
Garth Neufeld
And then the publishers were like, hey, you've got something that we like. Yeah. Like we. And is that at all your story with this title or.

00:30:37:14 - 00:31:01:26
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah. Like, I streamed a while back, I think Nolan White. Yeah. Really started with him. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so close to what has happened to me. I had actually been using Greg private tarot stats book pretty, you know, consistently. And a satrap, Josh Perego walks into my office one day and is like, hey, I see you're using the private tarot book.

00:31:01:26 - 00:31:27:11
Krisstal Clayton
Do you want to talk about why? Why did you adopt it? And I was like, yeah, I'm see. Great conversation. He comes back a few weeks later. Sage didn't have an intro book and asked me, hey, what would you want in an intro book? It's like, oh wow, no one's asked me that. Well, let's talk about it. So I think we had an hour of conversation and he asked if he could share my information with his executive editor.

00:31:27:13 - 00:31:52:13
Krisstal Clayton
I was like, yeah, I would love to talk about psychology. And teaching like, this would be great. I really thought I would sit on a focus group, like maybe review someone's chapter, and instead I was asked to create multiple choice questions. PowerPoint content. Right? I had a great time. It was with, Hanson and Good Friends social psychology book.

00:31:52:19 - 00:32:14:11
Krisstal Clayton
So I was loving it. And then the next meeting I had with, Laura Parra at the time, the the executive editor, she asked if I knew Sol Carson, and I was like, well, of course I know. So Carson. And then how about Greg Pruitt? Tarot? And I was like, well, yeah, I've been using his textbook for years.

00:32:14:13 - 00:32:40:07
Krisstal Clayton
So she offered to fly me to New York to meet them. And talk about an intro book. And I kid you not, I don't think I picked my jaw up off the floor since that first conversation and the sit in Sol Carson's office and see all of his boxes and boxes of cases that I was to miliar with and just look out his window and, you know, have him right in front of me, just in this moment in time.

00:32:40:07 - 00:33:09:03
Krisstal Clayton
And then there's Greg Pruitt, tarot sitting next to me. And we're having these conversations about how much we love students and the importance of psychology. I was beaming, I was absolutely beaming. So I have no idea how I got so lucky. So many happy accidents got me here, and I'm just constantly humbled that I have this opportunity. So it's been, it's been a fantastic ride.

00:33:09:08 - 00:33:10:15
Krisstal Clayton
It really has.

00:33:10:18 - 00:33:34:29
Garth Neufeld
Well, I am so happy that you share that. I think that there are graduate students listening. There are early career psychologists listening and I think you have to know that this is a real possibility. If it's if it's the way that you want to go, of course, there's like there are some fortuitous moments that can lead to these kinds of things, but it is the way that it often happens in that world.

00:33:34:29 - 00:34:01:08
Garth Neufeld
So, I'm glad there are people out there, like you who can share their stories. So you are in those early meetings. Do you remember what your group set out to do with this book? Like what? What was the conversation like? What angle were you taking at Intro Psych when you started? And and then I guess, like, where has that led to now?

00:34:01:11 - 00:34:29:06
Krisstal Clayton
Yes. Fantastic question. When I first took a look at this book, I had to buy one off of like Half Price Books, right? And then just blow the dust off when it arrived. And it was this beautiful moment of, oh my gosh, this was Saul Carson's intro book. And I'm flipping through and I see this fantastic feature that really resonated with the way I teach, which was his What's Your Prediction feature?

00:34:29:09 - 00:34:55:05
Krisstal Clayton
It opened up every single chapter, and I had been doing something similar in the classroom, but I had never thought about, oh, what a smart way to open up a textbook chapter where students get this really nice summary, of just either foundational research or current research. And instead of them just kind of reading through it, they're being asked to predict what happens next.

00:34:55:07 - 00:35:17:14
Krisstal Clayton
So it put them in the driver's seat. Right. It kind of asked them to, hey, you need to play scientist right now. You need to start practicing the way a scientist thinks about research. So now that you know the background, what do you think is going to happen next? And I thought that was just brilliant pedagogy. I really love the way he did that.

00:35:17:17 - 00:35:40:17
Krisstal Clayton
And he had also these current examples. I remember seeing Britney Spears in his textbook and I was like, go, Saul, you know? Right. Like, because back at the time with people that were you know, millennials reading that book. Yes. He had a lot of current real world connection with his students. And Saul being Saul, he also had a feature called psychology Applied.

00:35:40:20 - 00:36:01:01
Krisstal Clayton
So here's this real world issue. And now we've got all this research that explains why these things happen or how we've been able to solve the problem. And I had a good time just flipping through this book reading the information. And I thought, you know what this is? We can't let any of this go. Like, this is golden.

00:36:01:03 - 00:36:22:13
Krisstal Clayton
I'm still doing this in my classroom. And Saul loved that. He didn't want any of those pieces to go away, because he's still very much believes in them. The what's your prediction? The implied angle. And it was all agreed on. All right. We're going to hold on to these nuggets. And I won't let them go either. Even though I'm first author now.

00:36:22:13 - 00:36:42:13
Krisstal Clayton
Like we're I'm keeping my claws in them because I believe in helping students develop that critical thinking skills. Develop those skills. Right. And how do I do that? Well, I put myself in that position of the scientist and I practice it. I can't just do this once. I need to do this over and over and over and over.

00:36:42:16 - 00:37:03:25
Krisstal Clayton
And that's a great principle of learning, is we need to have the practice, and it's a safe way to do it, to put yourself out there, to write something down in a book, or just make a guess on your own and see what happens next. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. But we all make mistakes in psychology. That's how science moves forward, right?

00:37:04:02 - 00:37:16:09
Krisstal Clayton
We're not always correct in our assumptions. So that's something that we decided, hey, we're sticking with all of this pedagogy because it's just impactful and it's meaningful. And it gives students engaged.

00:37:16:11 - 00:37:40:17
Garth Neufeld
And what and as a before I ask this question, I'll just say this. I took over the director job of the annual conference on teaching for STP this year, and people were asking me, so what are you going to do differently? And I was like, nothing like it's running successfully. I there there may be some things, some subtle things that I do differently, but year one, just trying to get through this thing, you know.

00:37:40:20 - 00:38:05:20
Garth Neufeld
Yeah. And so but but I do have like for, for subsequent years I'm thinking about, you know, what, what could we change and maybe improve on or do differently? How did have you thought about that question for yourself, like your personal touch on this? And have you been able to do that for this edition, or is this kind of are you delaying that a little bit?

00:38:05:22 - 00:38:30:01
Krisstal Clayton
No. This edition I went hard okay. Yeah. We got some fantastic reviewer and student feedback and some of that feedback was, you know, it might be a little too long. Our students, you know it like the reading needs to be concise. Like can you turn it down a little bit. And then these are things my students are constantly asking me about.

00:38:30:01 - 00:38:58:26
Krisstal Clayton
Can you expand that? And, well, you know, I really want them to think like a scientist. So can we have a whole chapter dedicated to that? So it was like, yes, yes, yes. So chapter two is now completely dedicated to methods with a little bit of statistics background. So that our students can be right, media literate. Yes. And there are a lot of things, that I feel passionate about that are woven into this textbook.

00:38:58:26 - 00:39:26:08
Krisstal Clayton
For example, mindfulness. I know our students are very much struggling with their wellness, also their attention, their ability to be present. And there is a plethora of research on mindfulness and psychology and the benefits. So I woven a lot of that also into the textbook. There are a couple of try this or psychology applied examples as well that teach students how easy it is to practice mindfulness.

00:39:26:08 - 00:39:46:05
Krisstal Clayton
How can you do this at home? Or how can you do this just right before you're about to go to a class or take an exam? And I love, international travel, I love it, and I just started taking students to, Italy for a study abroad last year, and I did that with a focus of blue zones.

00:39:46:05 - 00:40:12:24
Krisstal Clayton
So what are all of these interesting psychological pieces that go into longevity for people in these nine different areas of the world? And one of them happens to be in Italy. So I watched my students just really soak it in and experience how it feels when time almost slows down, because you're not doing the hustle and bustle, and then the conversations about food and the size of packages.

00:40:12:24 - 00:40:39:07
Krisstal Clayton
And this isn't fatty. Where's all the salt, you know, stuff? I didn't expect them to really talk about. So I was that into the textbook as well, because they just couldn't stop asking questions about why was it so different from what they were used to in the United States and then portion control? I also am working on getting certified in women's menopausal health.

00:40:39:09 - 00:41:00:20
Krisstal Clayton
And questions that often come up are, well, what is my portion size? Do I have to have a scale? Well, what about the plate method and I thought, these are all wonderful questions. And my students have the same questions because one serving size could be a king sized pack of Reese's Cups, right? Or a Reese's Mini. It also has one serving.

00:41:00:26 - 00:41:24:01
Krisstal Clayton
How am I supposed to know? So thanks to my training and wellness, I, you know, stumbled upon what's called the hand method, and I taught my students to use their hands because it's this great individualized tool. Unlike a plate which can come in several different sizes. So how do we use our hands as a good mnemonic to know what our portion sizes should be?

00:41:24:04 - 00:41:31:06
Krisstal Clayton
So yeah, I'm putting that stuff in there too. I you know, I would I just went for it.

00:41:31:08 - 00:41:56:14
Garth Neufeld
Yeah. Well, I talk a lot about finding our authenticity and our unique contributions in the work that we do, whether it's a class or an it's in our writing. I think in some ways we buy into this idea that, to be a good psychologist, that you have to, you know, follow the status quo. And to to an extent, you do.

00:41:56:16 - 00:42:23:10
Garth Neufeld
And our students do need to, also follow the rules, right, and get the classes that they need for graduation and right in the ways that we tell them to write, etc.. So there's a lot of conditioning to doing things the way that everybody does them. And then at some point, I feel like mid-career, maybe mid-career, offers you the opportunity, if you're lucky, to put your own stamp on things.

00:42:23:10 - 00:42:44:26
Garth Neufeld
I love that you're doing that. When you were talking about the mindfulness assignment, I have this assignment, my intro class, where at the end of term right now, two and I ask my students, what was the most meaningful, like assignment that you did in this class? This term is I have them do basically one thing a week that's a little out of the box.

00:42:44:26 - 00:43:07:08
Garth Neufeld
And, it always comes back at least, like out of the ten things, maybe that they did, a third of them are I have them listen to my interview with Ellen Langer on PsychSessions. And then so they learn about mindfulness, and then I have them go on an hour walk without their phones and just to to observe and take things in.

00:43:07:08 - 00:43:27:20
Garth Neufeld
And about a third of students say that was the favorite thing they did. It's just such a novel experience for them and for most of us actually, as well. So, yeah, you know, students are I can hear that when you're when you are designing things, you're thinking about what do students need right now? And who are these students coming in?

00:43:27:20 - 00:43:53:06
Garth Neufeld
That's been like a theme of our conversation. So anyway, I love that I want to get back to your classroom. Okay. Because I think that this is where, like, the rubber hits the road, right? We have all these recommendations. You already mentioned IP, you write a text, I'm guessing, even though it's, it's when you call it a brief text, would you or middle.

00:43:53:13 - 00:43:54:03
Garth Neufeld
Middle. Okay.

00:43:54:08 - 00:43:56:01
Krisstal Clayton
So very in the center. Yeah.

00:43:56:01 - 00:44:18:16
Garth Neufeld
So you have this text, you probably cover all the traditional chapters of, you know, of the content of psychology. Right. And so then you actually have to put it into practice in your classroom. Yeah. So how do you take like the recommendations are kind of broad even from APA, a little unclear, kind of like a lot of there's a lot of decision making that you still get to make as an instructor.

00:44:18:16 - 00:44:46:25
Garth Neufeld
And then you get this book by Clayton at all. And you take this into your classroom and it's got these 16 chapters still, how are you practicing intro psych for your students? How are you making decisions about what to keep in, what to leave out, especially if you're doing these team, these collaborative activities in your class. So I think that's the question I have.

00:44:46:25 - 00:44:49:22
Garth Neufeld
And everybody's listening now.

00:44:49:25 - 00:45:19:21
Krisstal Clayton
No pressure, no pressure. Yeah. I lean heavily on what resonated the semester before the last time I taught this, and I'm constantly taking notes. I see myself as a learner right along with my students. I'm learning about what's important to them, what didn't stick, what can I do better? So when I have these opportunities to teach intro, I'm always going back to my notes.

00:45:19:21 - 00:45:39:19
Krisstal Clayton
I'm reviewing my teaching evaluations. All of the email students have sent to me about things that really matter to them. And I also have an assignment, kind of similar to what you're talking about, where I have students do a bullet journal and they have to apply psychological concepts to their reflection on what their habits were over the past four weeks.

00:45:39:19 - 00:46:02:27
Krisstal Clayton
What minor changes did they make that made a huge impact in their wellness? And what what lesson in psychology did you decide you wanted to share with other people? Like what was so inspiring to you that you had to talk about it with everybody else? Right. So as I'm reading these and going through them and grading them, there are things I never would have known that my students were going to latch on to had I not asked.

00:46:03:00 - 00:46:23:06
Krisstal Clayton
And those are the things that are driving my pedagogy for the next time I teach this course. For example, sleep, sleep. My students are not sleeping. And when I ask this question, you know how many hours that you're getting on average? They're like, oh, I do pretty well. I give five, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you think that's good?

00:46:23:06 - 00:46:47:08
Krisstal Clayton
Five hours of sleep? Like, what's happening here? So had I not asked, I never would have known. Yeah. And that meant, okay, we are going to have a conversation about sleep. I can't not talk about it. And then what's going on with social media and mental health and body image? Students are asking me about this all the time, so I can't not talk about that either.

00:46:47:10 - 00:46:54:18
Krisstal Clayton
So the constant process of notetaking, that's what helps me decide, okay, this is what we're going to talk about.

00:46:54:21 - 00:46:58:06
Garth Neufeld
What do you not talk about then.

00:46:58:09 - 00:47:03:28
Garth Neufeld
So what content are you comfortable leaving out of intro psych for your students?

00:47:04:01 - 00:47:34:25
Krisstal Clayton
Sure. Hypnosis. I don't cover hypnosis. I this semester, I dabbled a little bit in, like recreational drugs, but I didn't dive deeply into the consciousness realm and covering, you know, all of the recreational drugs. Will I do something differently next semester? Or the next time I teach? Intro? Yes. And that I do want to hit conversations about, vaping.

00:47:34:25 - 00:48:08:01
Krisstal Clayton
I definitely touched on that in the semester. And now it's going to be in the new edition of the textbook, because we have a lot of students worried about their long health and the addictive properties of vaping. I also don't focus too much on, let's see which chunk. Oh, dissociative identity disorder. I've started leaving that out, and I'm trying to focus more on also conversations about neurodiversity.

00:48:08:03 - 00:48:32:17
Krisstal Clayton
Students are getting a lot of information on TikTok about, well, what is ADHD and what is autism spectrum. And I've had students say, oh, well, I have adult ADHD. I'm like, hold on, adult ADHD. Let's talk about that. So I've had to think about what do they need to know from the DSM five revised edition. Right. And what really don't they need to know?

00:48:32:17 - 00:48:38:17
Krisstal Clayton
So I've also thought deeply about, what I'm going to cover in the psychological disorders chapter.

00:48:38:23 - 00:49:02:03
Garth Neufeld
Yeah, yeah, there is a sacrifice when you go deep with students and, and you try to look into some of these really relevant issues. And it it sounds like you're listening to your students. You are trying to equip them from psychology with, the, the content is going to that is actually going to be relevant and to and improve their lives.

00:49:02:03 - 00:49:10:04
Garth Neufeld
And I think it hurts some people's hearts when I say that, that not all of the content that we offer in psychology is necessarily helpful for students, right?

00:49:10:06 - 00:49:31:28
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah, yeah. You're right. And watching them glaze over is a huge sign to me where they're just like, they're not tuning in, you know? And I find that you're right so hard because I love it all I know. So how do I break up with something I've had a relationship with for decades and I believe is incredibly important for them.

00:49:32:01 - 00:49:33:28
Krisstal Clayton
Right. Well, so, yeah.

00:49:34:00 - 00:49:58:22
Garth Neufeld
There's only so much time and we get to spend that time. I think glazing over. It's a nice way to put it glazing over the content of intro psych, because I think if you're trying to cover it all, that's what you're doing. You're just sort of glazing it like a donut. And it's not it's not going to it's not going to, get deep into students minds in their experiences.

00:49:58:22 - 00:50:23:29
Garth Neufeld
But I just, I really like how you have talked us through, especially in a large section, how you're going for some of these, kind of deeper, issues in the content and applying it. Okay. Well, I have taken an hour of your time and I just want to say thanks for doing this. I want to wish you good luck as you all launch, second edition.

00:50:24:02 - 00:50:29:02
Garth Neufeld
And, I don't know, maybe we'll see each other around it, one of these conferences one day.

00:50:29:02 - 00:50:32:16
Krisstal Clayton
So I'll be at nine top. I'm not sure if you are going to.

00:50:32:17 - 00:50:40:08
Garth Neufeld
I'll see you at nine top and awesome. Which will by the time this comes out, will have hung out already at Nine top. So it was nice to see you at night off.

00:50:40:08 - 00:50:43:05
Krisstal Clayton
Yeah, it was nice to see you too.

00:50:43:08 - 00:50:44:29
Garth Neufeld
Thank you Krisstal, have a great day.

00:50:45:03 - 00:50:45:24
Krisstal Clayton
It's been a pleasure.