Our Second Year at CampOut Family Camp

CampOut is an overnight camp for LGBT families, hosted by the Lake of the Woods & Greenwoods Camp located in Decatur, Michigan. CampOut experienced its third year of family fun August 17th-20th. Frank and Adam Golden, founders of Golden Surrogacy, took their children to CampOut for a their second year and came back with plenty of stories to share! In this episode, Frank and Adam discuss camp activities, meeting other gay families, and their children’s perspectives of this amazing family building event.

Transcript

 Frank 00:02 
Welcome to Surrogacy Talk with me, your fabulous host and family building expert, Frank Golden. I'll be talking about surrogacy, IVF, and making babies. Hello and welcome back. I'm joined today by the fabulous, Erika Daybook. Good morning, Erika
 
Erika 00:21 
The morning, Frank
 
Frank 00:22 
And my husband and our director of operations, Adam Golden. Good morning, Adam.
 
Adam 00:26 
Good morning.
 
Frank 00:27 
So today we are going to do a podcast about CampOut Family Camp, which we did one last year. So I found it only fitting that we kind of go back and do like another recap, talk about our experiences because we did go back again this year just as a refresher to let everyone know about how amazing it really is.
 
Frank 00:51 
Um, did you want to dive in with any questions, Erika, or do you want me to just kind of.
 
Erika 00:55 
I guess I just want to know more about CampOut and you know, more about the camp itself. And then I just want to hear about your experiences.
 
Frank 01:02 
Yeah. So. So Adam is, is the true expert here. He went to, there's a camp for children in Decatur, Michigan, and it's called Lake of the Woods Camp, which is the girls half of the camp, and then Greenwoods Camp, which is the boys half. So it's all the same on the same land. They just kind of separated in those two ways.
 
Frank 01:22 
And Adam, how many summers did you attend as a child and how old were you?
 
Adam 01:27 
I went to Greenwoods Camp for eight years, starting when I was eight years old. Yes, when I was eight years old.
 
Frank 01:32 
Eight years old. Um, so that's really fun. So what? That started after school lets out and then lasts, what, eight weeks?
 
Adam 01:42 
They have different lengths of camp. They've, uh, they actually now have a two week camp, a four week camp, and an eight week camp. I went for four all except one, one year. I went for eight weeks.
 
Frank 01:51 
Awesome. So it's a camp for children. But, um, the over the last few years, the camp has repurposed the camp, um, out of season for the children, for families. So one weekend they have Family Camp, and then the following weekend they have CampOut, which is like Family Camp, but it's for all LGBTQ families of different structures. So two dad families, two mom families, single parents are there as well.
 
Frank 02:22 
So it's really a unique opportunity for members of the LGBTQ community who have children to all converge at the campground and have all of, you know, we have all of our children there. So it's a really unique opportunity Um, this was the third year of CampOut and this was our, personally, it was our second year attending and so our daughter was, we have, she'll be six in October and our son just turned two in July and she was four last year when we went.
 
Frank 02:55 
And she absolutely loved it. She remembered all of the activities. And then as it got closer, like towards the beginning of the spring, she started asking, "When are we going back to camp?"
 
Erika 03:07 
Did she still like the archery?
 
Frank 03:09 
The archery?
 
Erika 03:10 
That was her favorite. Wasn't that her favorite or my mistake?
 
Frank 03:13 
Yeah. She she talked about archery a lot so she definitely did that again this year. Um, so I just I want to go through some of the activities because I don't know if we covered all of that last time. I was just like super excited and I don't know if I went through every single thing.
 
Erika 03:28 
Yeah it was more about like, it was all about you being a part of a unique experience where you were amongst a bunch of LGBTQ families and so we really focus on like that, kind of like that dynamic and how that must have felt for Sophia and just to be a part of, you know, that sense of community. So I would love to hear more about the offerings of the camp and how the camp runs and all that good stuff.
 
Frank 03:49 
Yeah. So,
 
Erika 03:50 
And I also want to hear about your emotional experience as well. Of course.
 
Frank 03:52 
Well.
 
Erika 03:53 
We'll talk about everything.
 
Frank 03:54 
Definitely. So the camp has many amenities and many activities. So for everyone out there listening in the LGBTQ community who has children um, you know, many of the families were from the Chicagoland area, a lot of Michigan, there were some from the Minnesota area. So really kind of all over the place. Last year, a family drove in from Canada.
 
Frank 04:18 
So if you're in the area or you're within, you know, a five to six hour, maybe if it's a little longer driving time, definitely worth it. This year it was from August 17th through the 20th. So we arrived there Friday mid afternoon and then we left that Monday, that following Monday midday as well. So, um, so some of the activities that the camp has definitely a lot of water activities, um, swimming, there's a pool and lake swimming.
 
Frank 04:49 
The lake is really awesome. The water temperature, it's not a huge lake. So the water temperature was really nice and warm. It was really great for swimming, especially when you have young children. They had two water trampolines and one, had a slide and one had this like blow up inflatable end where you could like jump on it and catapult the other person off.
 
Frank 05:08 
It was, it was incredible. It was so much fun. Um, in addition, you can go canoeing, kayaking, paddle boarding, sailing, you can go on the boat and you can just do kind of a ride around the lake. Or you can do skiing. They'll show you how to ski or you can go tubing. In addition, you can also do swimming or fishing.
 
Frank 05:31 
And then in terms of, um, land activities, there's archery, there's rivalry, horseback riding, and there's wall climbing.
 
Erika 05:40 
Wow.
 
Frank 05:41 
So there's different, there's different activities for really everyone of all age groups, I guess you could say. And then they've got obviously a basketball, a few different basketball courts, a tennis court um, there's something called Tramp Ball, right? With a, it's like a trampoline, volleyball, hybrid sport.
 
Frank 06:02 
So there's all sorts of different, um, activities. Even if you have really young children, there's always at least a family or two that have newborns and they're not limited. They still come because there are, um, there are still activities that they can partake in and it's just, it's fun in terms of the social aspect. So even if you don't have children, um, that can't partake in all those other activities, the social aspect with other parents is really great.
 
Frank 06:29 
And um, there's also a section of the camp where you can go and do crafts
 
Erika 06:34 
Nice.
 
Frank 06:35 
So they can, what there's like coloring on, creating cups. They did, we did tie dye made tie dye shirts with Sophia.
 
Adam 06:42 
I think they had different activities on different days.
 
Frank 06:45 
Yeah,
 
Adam 06:45 
Their arts crafts.
 
Frank 06:46 
And another thing to note is that when you're out there in the camp and you're doing all of these activities, you're not alone. So when you go and do, um, for instance, sail boating, there is a counselor there to show you how to do that activity and do it in a safe way. Um, when you're swimming, there's lifeguards, there's, you know, trained professionals, counselors operating the boats and all the equipment.
 
Frank 07:10 
So literally all you have to do is show up to the activity. And there's a counselor there who's trained in that activity to teach you how to do it and how to do it safely. Sophia, um, loved interacting with the gentleman who was showing her how to do archery this year. You know, he, I mean, we have some really great photos.
 
Frank 07:26 
He, like, crouched down and, like, showed her how to load up the arrow and how to pull the bow back. And all of that good stuff. And so that's really, really cool. Um, and then there's also a structure there called Bob's Lodge, which all of the parents especially if you've been at CampOut, um, are familiar with and excited about where there are counselors that will, um, actually care for your children during certain blocks of the day so that, you know, parents can have kind of like a resting hour or two to kind of regroup, maybe go out and do.
 
Erika 07:59 
Probably very necessary.
 
Frank 08:00 
It's, it's really great. Because then you can go out and do an activity together as a couple while your children are still cared for and having fun. They've got different movies and activities in the Bob's Lodge area and then in addition for the adults every evening at 9 p.m. begins adult social hour. So you can have it costs a little extra, but you can have a counselor come to your cabin and care for your children, you know, look after them while they sleep.
 
Frank 08:25 
And you can have social hour at the dining hall. And it's a really great opportunity to interact with the other families and other parents and get to know kind of where everyone came from and how they learned about camp. And are you coming back next year? You having fun? Um, so they're really, it's a really great dynamic of fun activities.
 
Frank 08:46 
And then the social aspect, you know, aspect of it with all of the different parents, it's really a great opportunity um, do you have anything to add that I might have missed, Adam? And this is probably surreal for Adam because you went there as a child, so now we get to bring Sophia and Silas there. So, um, what do you think about the prospects of them attending?
 
Adam 09:08 
Yes, Sophia's already talking about going there as she gets older.
 
Erika 09:12 
Oh.
 
Adam 09:15 
She technically could go next year but we may still wait another couple of years just to make sure she's ready, but yeah, she loves it. Uh, she loved archery. She loved, uh, doing arts and crafts. She loved, uh, going tubing, doing horseback riding, swimming in the lake. The kids just had a ball.
 
Frank 09:31 
Yeah, it was really great. One of the nights they actually set up, like, a movie screen out by the water, and they're playing a Disney movie or Pixar movie out there, and you could set up a chair or a blanket and watch by the lake.
 
Erika 09:42 
That's cool.
 
Frank 09:44 
Um, yeah, just really, really great.
 
Erika 09:45 
And it just sounds like the ultimate camp experience. Like, anything you could possibly think to do at camp you can do there, which is super fun.
 
Frank 09:54 
It's just. And for me, I never went to camp as a child, so I didn't
 
Erika 09:58 
Me either.
 
Frank 09:58 
know, anything about what it's about. The other thing for everyone listening to know is that you're not sleeping in a tent. There are cabins you can share the cabins with other families and there's different cost structures for all of that. So it's great.
 
Frank 10:12 
There's, um, there's multiple bunk beds per cabin, there's a shower, um, different you know, there's sinks inside. So you're not, you're not quote unquote roughing it.
 
Erika 10:23 
Right.
 
Frank 10:24 
You are able to, to be out there in the wilderness and enjoy all that the camp has to offer. But you're not, you know, you're not backpacking. It's a different camp experience, but it's just, it's wonderful, especially being a family that's, you know, a member of the LGBTQ community.
 
Frank 10:40 
You know, that you're going there for the weekend. You're not going to be judged based on your family, make up your children can interact with other children that have similar family make ups. And last year and this year as well, what we noticed is that the children that attend are very well behaved. They're very educated. They treat one another with a sense of respect and understanding.
 
Frank 11:05 
And and I think a lot of that has to do with the uniqueness of their family make up. And in every you know, this is again, this is our second year and that noticeable change in children that aren't you know, part of that like group is drastic. So everyone there that is attending, they're doing a great job raising their their families.
 
Frank 11:26 
And they come to camp and they have a really really great time.
 
Erika 11:29 
I have a question. I remember we discussed Sophia's reaction last year to seeing kids with two moms or two dads. And she handled it well, of course. But she also is kind of just like, no, I don't think they have two dads like maybe a little bit confused about it because she's so used to being unique in her own personal life.
 
Erika 11:49 
Yeah. How did she embrace that this year? Has it changed at all? She's only five. So.
 
Frank 11:54 
So yeah, it's a good question. Last year we were trying to point it out to her because it was a new.
 
Erika 11:59 
Right.
 
Frank 11:59 
Experience and she was in disbelief. She was like, no, that's not, you know, um, this year we, we did mention it briefly before we got to camp and then while we were there, I don't think we brought it up as much because we wanted to see if
 
Erika 12:13 
Right.
 
Frank 12:14 
She brought it to our attention and she didn't. So I think that means that she, she doesn't see the difference.
 
Erika 12:24 
I think that's exactly what it is
 
Frank 12:25 
She doesn't, it's not a distinguishable difference.
 
Erika 12:28 
How cool.
 
Frank 12:29 
And it's so, so cool and so unique. She just looks at all of the different family make ups in her world completely normal? Nothing is wrong with it. It didn't even raise, you know, you know, a flag to her in terms of she needs to bring it to our attention. It was just like, you know, these are their moms or you know, this little Danny's fathers like she just it is that's her world.
 
Frank 12:52 
So everything was completely awesome to her the whole time.
 
Erika 12:55 
How cool is that.
 
Frank 12:56 
Um, but we have, you know, we have two children. Silas is only two. And believe me, they are completely different children.
 
Erika 13:03 
Yes.
 
Frank 13:03 
So I.
 
Erika 13:04 
They are.
 
Frank 13:04 
I'm excited to see, like, what, and plus he's a boy, too. So I'm excited to learn over the next couple of years what his take on going to camp will be. I think it'll probably be similar just because of how fluid we are and open. We are in dialog with them around their make up and where they came from and everything.
 
Frank 13:23 
But, um, but still, it'll be quite different it'll be, you know,
 
Erika 13:27 
I'm sure.
 
Frank 13:27 
and I'm excited to find out those differences.
 
Erika 13:29 
Did Silas seem to, you know, being two years old now, he's a little bit more of a personality and he's a little bit more of a human being. If you will. Did he seem to enjoy himself just as much or at that change at all?
 
Frank 13:41 
He did. Um, there were many activities that he still couldn't do because of his height and how small he is. So he was in the stroller a lot, but he loved swimming. He loved being in the water um, we actually took him up on the water trampoline and sent him down the slide, and I was at the bottom of it.
 
Frank 14:01 
So I caught him and he went but (boop) dunked under the water, came up was all smiles, like he had fun. He was loving it. Sophia, on the other hand, she was not super thrilled about the waterslide situation,
 
Erika 14:14 
Oh, okay.
 
Frank 14:15 
but I think next year she, but I give her some credit. She went out on the lake and did tubing for the first time.
 
Erika 14:21 
Good for her.
 
Frank 14:22 
And she loved it. So and I think there's a difference because she primarily she's in swim class and she swims in in a pool where she can see the bottom. And it's different when you're lake swimming. But she you know, the counselors did a really great job at like making her feel at ease. And it's okay, Sophia, we're going to have fun.
 
Frank 14:40 
Um, and we always had another thing is we always had a counselor sitting at our table, which Sophia loved to just chat with the counselor about her day and what activities she was loving. So I think the camp does a really great job. The coordinator, Emily, she does a really great job at coordinating the event. Um, her, and there's another staff member, I believe her name is Keely.
 
Frank 15:05 
Correct, Adam? They do a really great job. They put their heart and soul into, you know, coordinating everything, sending out surveys to ask for feedback, keeping everyone in the loop and engaged throughout the entire year via the Facebook group. So there's a CampOut Facebook group, and they like to post pictures and things throughout the year of the previous events, and they keep us all excited and looking forward to next year.
 
Frank 15:27 
So and that work begins like, I'm pretty sure she'll begin, like immediately starting on the next campaign. So she does a phenomenal job and she's there. She's there with us for CampOut. Um, and so, you know, her and Keely and then all of the counselors that are there, um, they're just incredible. They're there the whole season with the children and so they have to be tired and then we show up with our, you know, crying, screaming children sometimes because they get cranky and in the counselors are just, they're still happy and helpful and glad to be there and help us with all the activities. Is that kind of similar, Adam, for when from when you
 
Frank 16:06 
were there as a child, were the counselors the same type of you know,
 
Erika 16:10 
Sounds like a high caliber counselor if you're that energetic throughout the whole summer.
 
Frank 16:14 
Was that the experience you had attending camp?
 
Adam 16:16 
Yeah, yeah. The the counselors are always young, energetic, outdoors-type people that are, love activity.
 
Frank 16:22 
Yeah.
 
Erika 16:24 
Yeah, I think you'd have to love that kind of a job in order to do it. You know, it's very hands on, and long hours, lots of kids. So you have to really love camp to participate in that, I think. So I'm interested in how the camps change. Like, do you notice more families than last year? Did you see a lot of familiar faces?
 
Frank 16:46 
So I think last year there were close to 30 or 40 families. This year, I think it was like 60.
 
Erika 16:53 
Oh my goodness.
 
Frank 16:55 
They had a lot. Yeah, last year.
 
Erika 16:56 
That's a huge increase.
 
Frank 16:57 
It's a huge increase. Last year families were able to basically, for the most part I think everyone had their own cabin. This year, many families bunked together. So in order to get everyone in and accommodate them. So it grew dramatically and most of the attendance is really driven through word of mouth. So, um, I really believe that and especially as more and more LGBTQ members are having families now, which is amazing, they will look for venues and activities and places and things like this to take their family to and attend.
 
Frank 17:31 
So I think if anything, CampOut is just going to become even more and more popular,
 
Erika 17:36 
I'm sure.
 
Frank 17:37 
and especially with the quality of everything. I mean, yeah, this was our second year and I didn't notice anything that was lacking. If, you know, everything was part of the staff was fabulous, the activities were wonderful. So if anything I, I foresee, you know, growth in the future. So,
 
Erika 17:54 
That's very exciting that, I mean, that's a huge increase of families.
 
Frank 17:57 
Yeah.
 
Erika 17:57 
Um, what like age group of kids. So did Sophia have a lot of kids her own age to play with? Did any teenagers go, like, how olds, what's like, the oldest family, I guess. Like, how old?
 
Frank 18:08 
Oh, that is such a good question.
 
Erika 18:09 
Is it too old to go with your family to camp because I, you know?
 
Frank 18:12 
There were some older children.
 
Erika 18:13 
I want to go at 29.
 
Frank 18:14 
Yeah, there were some older kids there. But I think the norm or the average age was probably somewhere between like what, Adam? Two and seven, two and eight,
 
Erika 18:26 
So young families.
 
Frank 18:28 
it was more and more on the younger side. I think, from what I saw. But then again, there were so many families this time that it was impossible, right?
 
Adam 18:36 
Yeah. I would say it's probably the it's probably mostly two to 12 year olds. But again, I wouldn't be surprised if that age creeps up the longer it's around because I think there's more and more LGBTQ families coming along. If you were to go back 15 years or less, people, less of those families had kids, so.
 
Frank 18:56 
Right, and,
 
Adam 18:57 
when our kids are 15, I mean I hope to still be going.
 
Frank 19:00 
Right. That's a good point. So as these younger families who are attending now keep going throughout the years and our children are growing and that was another fun aspect seeing the couples from last year and how big their children have gotten. And they said the same thing about Sophia like, wow, she's gotten so tall. And I'm like, oh my goodness, your child is like not even recognizable
 
Frank 19:19 
anymore. They've grown so much.
 
Erika 19:20 
That's so cool.
 
Frank 19:21 
Um, that was really a cool thing too.
 
Erika 19:24 
That's something to look forward to every year. Like, how nice for you guys. Every year you get to see familiar faces and Sophia will have like people have like a built-in group of friends that she can always look forward to summers with. And maybe one day when she's ready to go to camp on her own, some of those kids will have decided that they also want to go to camp, and it'll just be like this whole big, awesome camp experience that Adam got as a child.
 
Frank 19:46 
It's yeah,
 
Erika 19:46 
That Frank nor I did.
 
Frank 19:49 
It's amazing and one of the nights, they do, um, a campfire with everyone, and they have, um, they have very talented musicians. There is a gentleman there that plays guitar and is is a quite talented vocalist. And there was a lady there with him this year who was also quite a talented vocalist. And they, they'll basically take requests. You could tell them
 
Erika 20:09 
That's awesome.
 
Frank 20:09 
what you want to hear, and they can basically pick it up and start singing anything.
 
Frank 20:12 
And it's just like so cool. And at the end of camp, one of their traditions is the, the relay. There's an activity relay where basically all of the campers are divided into two teams, red and blue. And then there's all of these different activities that they have to do. So it's like obstacle courses and you do your activity and then a runner from that team goes to the next activity and tells them they can start.
 
Frank 20:35 
And at the end, whoever gets finishes all the activities and gets down to the beach first needs to build a fire from scratch. Rubbing sticks together.
 
Adam 20:44 
No, you get a match.
 
Frank 20:45 
Do you get a, okay? Do you get a match? Okay. So, so you build a so you start a fire and then you have to get your fire so high to burn a rope. And whoever, whoever can burn that rope and have the rope fall apart basically first wins. And it's, it's really challenging. We were, we were had the good fortune of a knock on wood watch next year we'll lose.
 
Frank 21:06 
But we had the good fortune of the last two years being on the winning team, which was blue, go blue! And red was beating us first and red got to the fire first. But then we came in and we are we got our fire, you know, just at the right angle and we won. So, um, yeah.
 
Frank 21:21 
So that's really a fun thing every year to look forward to. And then I know that they they've started giving out penance to all the families. And for each year of CampOut, you'll receive a button. So we have the 2017 button, which was red and now we've got the 2018 button which was yellow, and we'll collect them throughout the years and hopefully have this nice patchwork of rainbow colored buttons from all the years that we've attended CampOut.
 
Erika 21:45 
That's awesome.
 
Frank 21:46 
So yeah, a really great weekend again. Um, I'm really excited for, um, for going back next year. Um, yeah, they're doing a really wonderful thing out there. So the more people that know about CampOut and can attend, the better because it's always fun to see fresh faces and to meet all of these new families and um.
 
Erika 22:07 
Thank you for sharing that. That sounds like an amazing experience to bond with your community as well as your family. Is there anything else you guys wanted to add that we didn't go over?
 
Frank 22:17 
Um, do you have anything, Adam?
 
Adam 22:20 
No, but I had a really good time at CampOut, and I really look forward to going next year.
 
Erika 22:25 
Awesome.
 
Frank 22:26 
So thank you everyone who has tuned in and would love to learn more about CampOut the website for CampOut is campoutcamp.com. And then you can also learn more by visiting our website. Thank you so much for tuning in. This is Frank Golden reminding you that Everyone Deserves a Family.