المرض والحياة التي تستحق أن تُعاش | كارول حمال ووسيم صبري

هل ممكن نعيش حياة تستحق أن تُعاش رغم المرض؟

في حلقة جديدة من بودكاست Ergo، بنتكلم عن المرضة، وعلاقته بـ الحياة، والصحة، والحياة التي تستحق أن تُعاش.

إزاي نفكر في المرض؟ وإزاي نتعامل مع محدوديتنا من غير ما نسمح للمرض إنه يتحكم في حياتنا؟ وهل ممكن يكون فيه «صحة في وسط المرض»؟

في الحلقة بنتناقش في:

- هل المرض بيسلب مننا القدرة إننا نعيش الحياة اللي عايزين نعيشها؟
- معنى Health within Illness — الصحة في وسط المرض
- إزاي نعيش حياة ليها معنى رغم محدوديتنا؟
- هل لازم نقارن حياتنا بمستوى حياة أو إنجازات مش متاحة لينا؟
- معنى القبول، والامتنان، والوعي بمحدوديتنا
- ليه إحنا محتاجين الناس اللي حوالينا؟
- إزاي نطلب المساعدة ونقبل الرعاية؟
- دور العلاقات في التعايش مع المرض
- إزاي نكون موجودين فعلًا مع شخص مريض؟


وسيم صبري | ماجستير فلسفة - الجامعة الأمريكية بالقاهرة
كارول حمال | معالج نفسي بالفن
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بودكاست Ergo من إنتاج المركز الثقافي اﻹنجيلي العربي.
 This podcast is a production of the Arab Evangelical Cultural Centre.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 1:26

Okay. Karol Module Hansin Kalimfin, how do Shoxi, like an auto munizman, Modom himsbem telefo and torakhazinikalim an um ill morod ill mission had the gilberdu al Berdad Day? But Amrod lip told man muddahman Amrod Hadbi Adam Izinikalaman Locked the Belhayael Isenbishdemakteer Fil podcast the Bel Belhael Little Stayman in Hannah Basizing Bahaishin, like I see Nash Hayaliha Mail Mwain I see in the Kunel Oshos.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Topic Shayden Venezuel Sorah. So Aisha Akalamale Bemersu Taman goes in Mumer Health Psychology, Medical ortherpieg biotoman, ala Doroyo Tobyoshwa, Ya nibi Memzikal Halet al Moro de Yadi Balagatabero, like and Mish Bi Hylig El Haledim and Nahi El Audwe. So a diagnosis a Toshis to be Zimatel Muhiv, Finis Kitir, Awesome Shaiza Torf, Shaiza Trohtarf, Ufineslaxme Betainim Arod, Dum Shwamadei, Hatmutaze Rod Du eyesm. Once they have a name, they have label and do Toshis when do haga site. So how we can use the same thing. Chronic, Muslim Degenerative, Bemanan Wobiasu Malwet, Terminal, Wahuwa L Halan Mut Akhira Gidden, Fnarfin and Haladim Al Shochsa Unid Mshaikamil Aishir. Almost like it rips the autonomy out, an eyes of the Watzi Anzel Oshabahu have hit. I do have a couple of writings that I made. So Lalamaya Rofost b degenerative illnessil. I lived at a cost. And she's like, oh, you know what? You just did a form art of art therapy to yourself. And she took art therapy. Oh, go to the library, read about it. Ruhin maktabeliri. It's in its second edition. So music, well, so to get something out. Ever since it's just stayed in the back of my mind that you were going to be able to do that. So do not see it. I need to pursue art therapy. One of the masters at the time, but one of the top five medical establishments, PCD or primary cell area disconnected. It was like, no, I want to finish this. This is part of an Ay Shalian Iza Hollow Masters.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Multiple sclerosis. Hooft Hoft Towan away. Kangoya selectivir m kuchwe him day besoftar alaya ze the can sweal kibira. Hal Hagan pragetlik saabashwaya innu lemkutabasal lakatrakfi iktira awi min il unpredictability. Ham smuta kiddin bzotin bo said uh filaglabia huudu l hagma what staid melaketa kukudrata kalakat fedifidakri meen, tobdayasal bada day, naam shafin bada de bzot tob dayasalteni uh munkan awiasaltini, uhasal nafel, mjbduru hasal nafag, mukan yasal eh, muknasal hag, lot of unknown, bzat munkan tifalinin, munkan yanhangagatl shayan hadihas halmasalan mshaif umkatigif egozitanim il kism anwam yani ehettafiha asob munkan munkantudasalkuladi, lam sharfin awi, taib madakan fi kamen kala mutom in bosal tob tuktakadam awi, andan adwati adway aktir al-moradha uhdart se'ad u ifyhagatin tadartamilafhayatak mukan tsaad burdun my uh my athar shalik umsuragbiraya umi aul modwa kad Chohrin, l'hadma tedit uheshway staid l-harakaf idid l'limin teni umikodr ta'kum f edi meen with ten milli wahim um taman fihimt haget katbut sali abli kedar in odhano anakanandi moradbasma kandu chha'pli kedafakan ablihab sanatin, I think fiat uh dayh tulat uh to khatwa koya we la getinakba name siriu hasnahat ilibuha wamesik fisiru, ankan the bihali medititi ilib uh uhgah uh fishhagaraga of botnife. Yani kan modwa moda athali khamas sabiani uh can uh can can be he do beala but it was uh can uh can wat sabu can goz I mean no bordum kanch mafum il hostel doctoral anfun ozun hangaral can be teba maya uhl foodowl keda mish gaban natigal m fruit to give up shway bait kwa e sian muda hedi bait uh bait hasan fatom haged keda ba uh katbutasal ablikeda if tat uhuma funa and t solinu umtahamil and half shi ebni oram shaf shibibni uh badin ana mfloatakutus tall sholo kutsefiktier uh half safer or lam sharf safer away shakil haibaml say um the sura of the lwode haleyan ladway felan msade any shagamet kaweya min site have weabit al headamet fi badl a la rodal bit but mila ba mal choxyani bababelha turkees uh and a mila yani tat guzigbir away min kudra in nana stamil edinimin but s l'atrof lisam na Mila. Klaus dal na na ishbi u tan mil dabizid braha yani kul uhar salahhez fila sabiya like n bad sitshura lainf sila eda na uh el tan mil makancharga uh sila bianibalfana kidmel hagatilana na hebba barif Izulin na naetit authorit wo dajorit umishb dorga lakutheif minha wat ma galito shhis umin fee suel betea ho da uhustabala iba amilzei il il mmukunyasal uhi low la tubabyatdam u handle a dweya asan umi heatitaloa busta mdomin awa msharf awa il mustabaiba shakwamilze, hagam hagetilikat husla nya, gam hagatil mustafizasinna f no um ey hagab thsoli munkin tib eb sababu fabulla hagali fana'at telat sinin uhly min daifbarf agri u mumjbarf mshi besora l'zmamshibrha, u lasma rayha kol shwe mamshi ketregli vit la lot putum afsha ba'ul doktorini the goziml MSutoye. Toshafna bad talatinin na kanandi uhyan roisil uhil regla dbari um mazdut umitamalaya uhal na uh bypassani min uhriyan min regli was salobi befor rogbal tahtarogba wouldik hagabili kata hagar um Yananakut salahtama fakritinanam shhagritain.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Kananda kam sana?

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Um October Shrin ashrin, I't regli daifa Ashrin or Baashin Arashin or Bashrin Amal T Lamal Tatil Kanandi Kamsana, Telatalatin sana uh pretty young for fil symptomal batar guziml uhdi no and lati aim or sali hagagariba, furbim sharfin, o da hagariata wa bil MS Walla Haga tanya. Umagatlafkur tfia ktir besababil moda haya uma e ta'fir el morod ta' alaya wa alahaiti um aloktib gismi footfokafia zayani. Azul ablikha gismi maya yani alhozfokafi a ni. Guzotay m nilha naesha, andabamil hagatlana isamilha. Um fihagat bat moran aliha fiha any basmal mal morad la hesinu um zemakunfi normal um eloka will why you gismi il makanch makanch maguta li get.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Uh why decalmay. Um satori.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Um too much why you tuman admirik.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Uh not having why. Um sorry in bottles 50 hello. But I ask my clients sometimes when is denial useful? Well in coren, of suto, I'm good. Um too much of a inkhalini and the mushkila and be up to the house. Not denying all the action for her waffle investigate. But I love the shift of thought, and I can identify the away. Um, anamhtor mahfhtora wegeb bawaal ficret and you to be so hilsit. Um, uhish fill hoof was the kabbachtor aisha and mala um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah. Zemakun abl lwahad royun ho umishwe mahadudi, um mishweai l inni orda lilam hai. Uh bazuk yani kun andi no il saitara, ul kowa, wa saloba il mishai. Omnipotence of il ufalin il hagal yani daiman nispora il mlamikan ano mariam yani m kalman it il tala chur dul wahadaman akar il masha'ir ilkinet andina, loma talachur chha styomas, or shauril emtinen.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Lama chhachhost.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Yani talabatiam naaya to haifinu, stil lemadinya what heat of him na il hassel ukida, canandi shaur gharib bil imtenin, zimkunkuna shuftel alambtory mhuhtalifatem. Um flebz ofta hassel Biltori adima, tlhasita innu siminta kama ki kalimeen, belaq teratana. U uh samelakulium, sudbiha w dikat hidea wikat haga moto likatan y akti moto lik, intoptam naha la guda uptata ku mhaakuliik uh uh khaftinu yeat a fok korf kulil haget ilana bastam tia biha fi hayeti um bithaw l'alam muhtaliftemu al islam biathawali uhidi.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Sana ba sha bihan he once you know al marf tl morod anabenizbeli adasa and uh shafelam kulumen al adas al khdrodzimusal. And you cannot unsee it, he t a permanent sir de him. Uhul hagab to it uh, uh itch wah the hag for granted. Uh badri awi faim bata el hale ninabash to fla awi and umur bordu belsufa u existential approach badri awi alasini. Um lafa away, aliya halawita, liam mazoko, bababodor, ali halamabodur. Umbiragani de fikret and tabuch kol hagem and his own zuurfa kulla hage, so liamana soy mele, bet lyamana. Well ash lima katchab magud will edekod magud doctor.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Um ba ina yani nhtor awi hana mil e le inno why inabhudu yet na fall yani dikatamh get daniel umkin dat haddi analysabara ma so il uh bi only a day and mehtaginess daniel hole.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

So. Yeah ni um kotwah da dana N FC and no I never let my disease or my illness control my choices only my morodi it hacktioroti. But so it haken factory. Uh and a septo mosr morati masters, then you can't do it. Um, ironically, we have a lot of people who are in the house. I'm glad I did. And I'm not sure what I'm saying. I wanted to continue my career as well, but I'm not sure what I'm saying. Um, but my people, Nesi, my tribe, Fadal Ragani.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Anam Shaisab Anal when I tore Tafkirium can be a little bit. Bizot ana yani ashen an a hassasinu anam anakida mish bas anab uh hayati asab like anasab thayat had teni. Umkin yani dil hagelbhawla ta'allim hadlati uh uhfi abaturi assah, anamatanchab alaya otlub minines haget um basakadinu wahatam hagetil batallim haya innu el morad bi alimni nanam anamhtegenes. Wa I think I think di ha'i a lina kulina, sahadbasuli sa'adbi manana zahamil nana kulil kudra, nana anamtegen.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Anana familia.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Mamanamtegenas alfikrofinas kiti obit sa'idni hatalonamish meiz in homma bi sadunia. Um fa italim innu uh anakin mahtek uh anam hayeti um fiha haget kzir fiha rir eroti lana eyzi lana eyzu lana lana nifsi fiya.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Um eyes uh uhil guziptaya uh hell infant semi shokh sa and du ma chokhhos to shis muyan and shokhsa eyes um fima fum keda uhdel kita bater feb health within illness uh saha fi was um uh yeah fik ready um and then uh approach for alum psychology to health psychology um a debate and on the tabin uh diagma won't show and physically ol and restara heartful beat mishansel hegan nafsi gasedayan uh nafin al go as far but this name control and uh book and fair and contains distracted and malheaves, but mind over matter and has be eated, but sana muchtor in age a judge are of a kumta hard waiting as well, then that if my turbut ma litui um betanam at some li uhrotil insane.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Okay, alakra and mahudyat kit away. Il tizame to uh talkmin il hai nakhasakla e u tokatmin il hailet the hilatashaklahi filhaladi shokhsi bibamudri giddin besab il inho mish ayar if you wekib il a'alam bata shokh silma snafsil mahdud yyedi inho uh nana inul moradai ma ni animin inya isha diat hai. Fabnas batfakkar innu myunkin mushkila mish fust innu uh nana andi mahdud yet lenuknasanda mahdudiet. Uimkin dal guzmitf kirilbihali nestul yimkin noid taf kirfi alal alamustawa tos tos mimil mehmeri uheraul mebeni anakaliha wheelchair accessible minha m shachen nessalawa samm tahabesin la kursibaga tetla, hala shhdambaesh and du mushkilitin ho, mish edriat la al mabneda. Fabokkarfiha alamustawa kamen l halikti maya, la mustawa l nageh shoksi, a la mustawa fihmi l anon mufuda kun mean lawnayort toyit tafkirdi, anafsi one latiliktimaya, one l lalam lanufudmai. Yumkenafti haiwl wenam sanfi fedasufasma havi karal bitkalaman moda kalman in no umtagin creativity. Norman and way l tefkirfizi uhid tonzim il hai il hawalaye, behes inni other ayish haiya fiha norman and way norman and wail an anaish higher uh tale in that sea b uh mustawa haiya mwayan mustawa ingazet mwayan ana mish mishmutehleye um like in the mishmanen and fash aish higher liaman interestingly no uh how how eheel haia lihaman yeah gana uh yani haya way aborani shali.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

So, ourish behazel shaky um our tora a kamil il battle dili and octar high toin fear and no the hat to li bashouf cases kiti of depression, our nasal between you mean to gasadimayan, bizlau chronic or degenerative um tobana kamil manatulwa tabaif what's the point? Uh the hit, behizb, anashinton nifsi basal m achrughruga or la ruhta, m all the focker and behekamaya or the la, to me oxygen flower bay or the laqa, tobai befisegay or fencing shot or churugadi, to fisalem malasirelum, uh the focur and hot last, besides also, had him kidalu belgal. Um the first existentialist, uh will shoch fan and fehman madrasal, Victor Franco.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Um, man's search for meaning. Man search for meaning.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Why talatul were fulfillment? By death, and then in the end of the day, and if you are dini man, uh romancy at the my facet alhatoid effective early and laugh on a feel how del Hyde as a half and more durgo and of some not sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Okay, how uh be in Haget, Mishwith Hakumna, Haget Ogmin, Hagetan or Hannah can can licht your handin. Like in five silwa it umina il mise man eyes to the mimorra farmaya gave it no umfruitum it assembly abled with disabled. Hello, the coder or I had mandush the haga uh temporary the hagga yani wokte.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Um do you have trouble accepting help helpin?

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Um, sayat mahabisha ul in natabin.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Um I think lato bein sabanam sasta elanis, uh morod shwa to lahad uh shoulderflo, and kutbayabalyan mama kat butaman fitman tabin at my shwa, fate dot rhuhashole helper may or kidabs um mobile can ba telephone and all diphtal shoulder. So, I'm not sure. Okay, and then you have to do what you have to do. Uh and when her canal shelf, how to foot in a kid.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Um, talk fitnial victory frankly hope. Um can go assess him in good nafi, yeah. And then uh ultimatum shama brumansi and we're telling howalina, uh, awaila um had aloof your hobromancia. Umti umikalamala fikritil khizia w mukliman shochos, shais, mshaisia terifazi fatalness yani and takiya, kachani kushkelit kil to riba bibandana mushkela, uhatibando mushkela, in noy ulil bezetlinessil or ibin minnu in ho uhen or no mehtag musad. Um eyes comin afokkari any hangfagatl daimen ma'limai aga um, morod bide bi otfar ala masan maria moroti. Um saltahisin no a saabali hayem ina mahalayan. Mana saltha hisana ayan wa nabatana klosyan yana mutosolhmal omr bmayakfin nair aish hayati u klos anatabendulati ba hesin ilam mu'anet shuhsi l'bin hebu, sad bi asabalinamin mwaanet nahashse, can minha tigomlifta in chlana alfaram shif haddibbu taben. Um the boat hebi ro e kua ilbode tanip tea top tanaft nem shuhsil moit. Umafrood fi heavil uhlitorf shh nan and nafia lockamashosmorit. Zaya kun um fallen u good ifay to be sadu umbi kalider yeshil haiel fallon ben kalmari headi.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

So alinhadinami. Umike andwa echna inken a henan as patience fanarfa hamel eumametri be baishmaya smaya basia nieshmaita grobo. Umish bewa animal morat forabishofni, fihezal hell, kamb lag'su, the tobamba smoke teer. Um, I think in a devi um mirror that I can read border and has a belag of lagi, pretended. Um I think that's a very important thing. Why think in the Hattel literature, I have uh and more than a lot of people. Sorry, we're out of Caesar salad dressing, and we're not going to be able to do that. I made great friends, some of which are not a good idea. I realized that the kid is a supermarket or a tool. To come and say hi. And I was like, visitors, I want visitors. Oh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

Hatal had Doctor Hatal had Mumoradini. Well, I think Yanifil Short Closet Lisa Bena Ish Fimuqtamaat, or Ibn Badwa, let Urabad Lisa Mawuda Lekin fee normal and wea or fardanea, um, Frodimin Hangam Halem Shafin Nam Nisadnafsen Mustawa Aambi, Nafsa, Msumal in Nukulness Ptaf Tamil. Um Hatafias tikkala moduana and will moot nefs who can hagan mistabeha or fatawan maha of dolbit. In order moodal mustach. Ulema bibafi haga kid, benchuta heta lagamb, mazuula u anamta maravh, anarfil il khibra diandi ilanazoyer im naami uhbira awakanando waramfilmuch at fobira we taben, ananasuru katagazabidanali. Kutchbaf olui. Kuchwa kalmafi. Uhwa at kum can fakot kudra kalem, kuchubai masana kalimai a kalamafakur la oleosim and f a orf e and kayit kalmafkur, la atkalim at kalamafel morad withao, oraioliosim and a tulnarfilmorat kalmaf kor. Kutush the canch bit kalim.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

Yanyi f uh could the mini bashine who can you can hunt the any upebu oe you can messal alayfet kitiri um f um faizul in mjbinarf oeh Mjbinarf owe in a time ilma el moradul mo to soul moradul musmin mud organisban. Ay can uh uhituliha lil um lil caregiver, to actually door liaison at Tobias.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

Um goes at any yakman f in a coston kaker gave you I'm say it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:39

Oh, but I'm taking a border.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:36

So whenever I publish the calendar or a laptop and the other, antidepressants for cancer patients. No, Eliya, then I'm not ready to do any of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:42

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

Thank you for uh being brave to open such a subject. Thank you. See you soon.