{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":10.73,"endTime":11.844000000000001,"body":"Actually, I'm going to shrink."},{"startTime":15.064,"endTime":18.816000000000003,"body":"Okay. Divorce is a"},{"startTime":18.84,"endTime":22.352,"body":"tough decision to make, a tough path to walk, and there are"},{"startTime":22.408,"endTime":25.96,"body":"tough ramifications to dismantling your family. But"},{"startTime":26.032,"endTime":29.704,"body":"what if divorces were actually preventable or"},{"startTime":29.744,"endTime":33.204,"body":"even ready for this? Marriages could be restored."},{"startTime":33.544,"endTime":37.168,"body":"Well, even when everything feels hopeless, it is"},{"startTime":37.216,"endTime":41.026,"body":"possible. Well, today I have brought in Dawn Wiggins."},{"startTime":41.13,"endTime":44.745999999999995,"body":"She's a licensed marriage and family therapist, but a different"},{"startTime":44.809999999999995,"endTime":48.418,"body":"kind. And I think after you hear her, you'll understand why. So"},{"startTime":48.466,"endTime":52.266,"body":"welcome to the Unyoked podcast. I have so many questions for you."},{"startTime":52.41,"endTime":55.73,"body":"Hi, Todd. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited for our"},{"startTime":55.762,"endTime":59.498,"body":"conversation. Yeah, me too. I've been thinking about this all week long, because you and"},{"startTime":59.506,"endTime":63.089999999999996,"body":"I've already had a phone conversation that got into it. We're like, hold"},{"startTime":63.122,"endTime":66.934,"body":"on, stop. We need to record this. That's right."},{"startTime":67.394,"endTime":71.002,"body":"So let's start here. You know, I feel like, you know, christians"},{"startTime":71.058,"endTime":74.906,"body":"live under the God loves marriage, God hates divorce. Now, good"},{"startTime":74.93,"endTime":78.66600000000001,"body":"luck with all the in between details. Right. We just don't spend a lot of"},{"startTime":78.69000000000001,"endTime":82.226,"body":"time in our churches dealing with the gray"},{"startTime":82.37,"endTime":86.162,"body":"marriage. It's just like, yeah, get married, live happily ever"},{"startTime":86.218,"endTime":90.054,"body":"after. Oh, divorce. Yeah. Try not to do that. And"},{"startTime":90.354,"endTime":94.14200000000001,"body":"it. It's just. It forces a lot of us to have to"},{"startTime":94.158,"endTime":97.726,"body":"go outside of the church on things. And"},{"startTime":97.75,"endTime":101.23400000000001,"body":"so here's. Here's what I want to start with."},{"startTime":101.894,"endTime":105.518,"body":"I think divorce is hard for anybody,"},{"startTime":105.60600000000001,"endTime":109.354,"body":"whether you're a Christian or not. I just think there's an extra level of"},{"startTime":109.81400000000001,"endTime":113.29400000000001,"body":"a pain point that has been given to us because of what we're"},{"startTime":113.334,"endTime":117.07400000000001,"body":"taught. And sometimes our, um,"},{"startTime":119.73400000000001,"endTime":123.52600000000001,"body":"therapy be made a villain. Meaning, you know, if Jesus is your answer, all"},{"startTime":123.55000000000001,"endTime":126.974,"body":"your answers are in the Bible. And then we run into a"},{"startTime":127.01400000000001,"endTime":130.274,"body":"problem and we attack it as the"},{"startTime":130.934,"endTime":134.686,"body":"root problem, but really, it's a fruit problem. I've heard"},{"startTime":134.71,"endTime":137.846,"body":"you say that, and it's brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're worried about the"},{"startTime":137.87,"endTime":141.678,"body":"affair, but we really don't deep dive into what caused"},{"startTime":141.726,"endTime":145.542,"body":"the affair. What, talk about it. So if you could talk"},{"startTime":145.598,"endTime":148.502,"body":"a little bit about. Because I'm sure this is what you do for a living"},{"startTime":148.558,"endTime":152.07,"body":"as you're trying to just let people know their fruit problem is"},{"startTime":152.102,"endTime":155.79,"body":"really. Yes. Can you"},{"startTime":155.822,"endTime":159.526,"body":"speak into that a little bit? Because I think I want anybody listening,"},{"startTime":159.55,"endTime":162.494,"body":"because most people are going to listen to this, are probably dealing with this tough"},{"startTime":162.534,"endTime":165.99,"body":"decision, and it is, they don't see a way out,"},{"startTime":166.18200000000002,"endTime":169.782,"body":"and they don't know what to do, and maybe their partner doesn't want to go"},{"startTime":169.798,"endTime":173.558,"body":"to therapy or whatever, and we talk about all those nuances, but"},{"startTime":173.726,"endTime":177.234,"body":"this idea that the problem you're dealing with probably isn't the problem."},{"startTime":179.334,"endTime":182.394,"body":"I'm leading the witness here, but you can disagree. Yes, yes, yes."},{"startTime":182.934,"endTime":186.18200000000002,"body":"Well, and you and I already had such a powerful exchange, it feels safe to"},{"startTime":186.198,"endTime":189.71800000000002,"body":"disagree here. So I love that. Please. I think that if more"},{"startTime":189.76600000000002,"endTime":193.606,"body":"people understood the root issue and were willing to go to the"},{"startTime":193.63,"endTime":197.318,"body":"root issue, they would understand much sooner in the process to stay"},{"startTime":197.366,"endTime":200.9,"body":"or to go. Okay. So,"},{"startTime":201.052,"endTime":204.324,"body":"and gosh, there's a lot of loops I could open here,"},{"startTime":204.364,"endTime":208.116,"body":"but the first thing you mentioned was how we end up"},{"startTime":208.14000000000001,"endTime":211.94400000000002,"body":"going outside of the church to deal with our problems. And that is a problem,"},{"startTime":212.324,"endTime":215.852,"body":"I think, around how the, where the modern church is"},{"startTime":215.988,"endTime":219.556,"body":"and how it is not. It doesn't have a good balance of grace and"},{"startTime":219.58,"endTime":221.784,"body":"truth. And"},{"startTime":222.764,"endTime":225.544,"body":"it often calls"},{"startTime":226.154,"endTime":229.47400000000002,"body":"problems spiritual problems when they're not, they're genuinely mental health"},{"startTime":229.514,"endTime":233.26600000000002,"body":"problems. And the church doesn't say, don't go to the hospital and have surgery for"},{"startTime":233.29,"endTime":236.89000000000001,"body":"that issue because the Bible can solve your surgical issues. It says go to a"},{"startTime":236.922,"endTime":240.626,"body":"medical provider to get medical care. And mental health care"},{"startTime":240.69,"endTime":244.362,"body":"is no different. It is part of the physical body. Mental health and"},{"startTime":244.37800000000001,"endTime":248.09,"body":"physical health are intricately linked. You cannot dissociate one from"},{"startTime":248.122,"endTime":251.562,"body":"the other. Right. Which brings me into the next level"},{"startTime":251.618,"endTime":255.324,"body":"issue, which is that counseling, you can't really"},{"startTime":255.364,"endTime":259.07599999999996,"body":"dissociate counseling in a mental, emotional,"},{"startTime":259.14,"endTime":262.972,"body":"spiritual space from physical health that many, many, many"},{"startTime":263.02799999999996,"endTime":266.73999999999995,"body":"counselors and therapists are not qualified enough"},{"startTime":266.892,"endTime":270.73199999999997,"body":"to tackle root issues. Well, I"},{"startTime":270.748,"endTime":274.476,"body":"was just, I'm going to jump to the end, I was going to say, and"},{"startTime":274.5,"endTime":278.22799999999995,"body":"I'll double down on that as your pastor, which is where"},{"startTime":278.316,"endTime":281.77799999999996,"body":"most people, if they're going to go anywhere, they go to the guy who"},{"startTime":281.866,"endTime":285.506,"body":"preaches on Sunday mornings and they meet him in his office, and he's no more"},{"startTime":285.53,"endTime":289.378,"body":"qualified in his office than he was on the stage. But somehow"},{"startTime":289.426,"endTime":292.986,"body":"we think, well, we'll just reveal more and he has more time for me."},{"startTime":293.16999999999996,"endTime":296.75399999999996,"body":"That's not that guy. He didn't go to school for this. No."},{"startTime":296.834,"endTime":299.25399999999996,"body":"And my pastor is"},{"startTime":300.75399999999996,"endTime":303.774,"body":"ideally wise and educated and"},{"startTime":305.07399999999996,"endTime":308.858,"body":"person centric and can hold space, but that's not the same as"},{"startTime":308.90599999999995,"endTime":312.154,"body":"having the precision, skills and understanding"},{"startTime":312.274,"endTime":315.90599999999995,"body":"of neurobiology of the"},{"startTime":315.96999999999997,"endTime":319.378,"body":"brain and how it affects the behavior and the"},{"startTime":319.426,"endTime":323.07399999999996,"body":"body. And that is really detailed stuff that"},{"startTime":323.114,"endTime":326.31399999999996,"body":"most counselors, let alone most faith based"},{"startTime":326.354,"endTime":330.01,"body":"counselors, they don't have that skill and ability. I've"},{"startTime":330.042,"endTime":333.58599999999996,"body":"heard Jordan Peterson talk about this a bit and love him or hate him. Right."},{"startTime":333.69,"endTime":337.426,"body":"I love him. I know. Well, and I love how he called his tour"},{"startTime":337.53,"endTime":340.45,"body":"we who wrestle with God, because I think so much of this is, and I've"},{"startTime":340.48199999999997,"endTime":343.654,"body":"heard you talk about this on the podcast, right? About issues"},{"startTime":343.734,"endTime":347.07,"body":"that may not be clear. You're going to have to wrestle them with"},{"startTime":347.102,"endTime":350.87,"body":"God. You're just going to have to do that. Right. But I've heard Jordan"},{"startTime":350.902,"endTime":354.606,"body":"Peterson interview, actually an author, and I"},{"startTime":354.63,"endTime":358.31,"body":"don't have her name with me right now. Shame on me. But who"},{"startTime":358.342,"endTime":362.174,"body":"says that counseling can do harm and counseling can"},{"startTime":362.214,"endTime":366.046,"body":"do harm? Because when you are not working with a skilled enough"},{"startTime":366.22999999999996,"endTime":369.854,"body":"therapist or counselor to understand the root issues, and not just understand"},{"startTime":369.93399999999997,"endTime":372.9,"body":"them, but how to treat them, you're"},{"startTime":373.012,"endTime":376.85999999999996,"body":"probably doing behaviors in counseling that are reinforcing the"},{"startTime":376.892,"endTime":380.652,"body":"problem, that are piling on to the fruit"},{"startTime":380.70799999999997,"endTime":383.876,"body":"issues. Yes, yes. I'm going to use that like a"},{"startTime":383.9,"endTime":387.61199999999997,"body":"massage. Put somebody laying their hands on you, I guess, qualifies as a"},{"startTime":387.628,"endTime":391.452,"body":"massage. But when you have a real good. One, you know the difference. You"},{"startTime":391.46799999999996,"endTime":394.604,"body":"know the difference. Like, okay, this person knows where that muscles are. When they move"},{"startTime":394.644,"endTime":398.404,"body":"my arm, they're getting. To places that something changes, try"},{"startTime":398.44399999999996,"endTime":402.164,"body":"to. Get to because they didn't even know that exists. Okay,"},{"startTime":402.20399999999995,"endTime":405.34,"body":"beautiful example. Can we backtrack a little bit to the"},{"startTime":405.37199999999996,"endTime":408.676,"body":"church? I have my own opinions,"},{"startTime":408.85999999999996,"endTime":412.61199999999997,"body":"but why is it, like, why do so"},{"startTime":412.66799999999995,"endTime":416.284,"body":"many churches? Because I'm gonna set the table"},{"startTime":416.32399999999996,"endTime":419.864,"body":"differently. I believe the Bible is true. I believe"},{"startTime":421.044,"endTime":424.63599999999997,"body":"the Bible, scripture is true, and it's the word of God."},{"startTime":424.78,"endTime":428.46799999999996,"body":"I also believe that not all truth is in the Bible. And I think"},{"startTime":428.51599999999996,"endTime":431.948,"body":"what's hard is the verse that"},{"startTime":431.996,"endTime":435.73199999999997,"body":"says all scripture is sufficient. Well, so the"},{"startTime":435.748,"endTime":439.38,"body":"word is, well, if it's sufficient, which means. What do you mean by"},{"startTime":439.412,"endTime":443.132,"body":"sufficient? Because there's. Marriage seems to be the problem, and"},{"startTime":443.14799999999997,"endTime":446.108,"body":"people say, well, sufficient. So all your problems are going to be answered. And if"},{"startTime":446.116,"endTime":449.15599999999995,"body":"you got a problem, just go to Jesus and read your Bible and you can"},{"startTime":449.17999999999995,"endTime":453.03,"body":"work through anything. And I think that's a bad interpretation of that"},{"startTime":453.06199999999995,"endTime":456.75,"body":"verse. But what do you think causes the"},{"startTime":456.782,"endTime":460.59799999999996,"body":"reluctancy to say anything other than Jesus as the answer is a wrong"},{"startTime":460.64599999999996,"endTime":464.394,"body":"answer. Okay,"},{"startTime":466.25399999999996,"endTime":469.87,"body":"so first of all, we can't think ourselves out"},{"startTime":469.902,"endTime":473.44599999999997,"body":"of traumatic experiences, right? We"},{"startTime":473.46999999999997,"endTime":476.43399999999997,"body":"understand so much from research"},{"startTime":477.25399999999996,"endTime":480.686,"body":"these days. And ps, I do not think that the research tells us the whole"},{"startTime":480.71,"endTime":484.47799999999995,"body":"story. I think there's so much about God's creation that we do not and will"},{"startTime":484.52599999999995,"endTime":488.34999999999997,"body":"never understand. Right. Not meant to be revealed. So. Correct. So"},{"startTime":488.382,"endTime":492.22999999999996,"body":"I'm speaking on our current research, which I do not say we should"},{"startTime":492.262,"endTime":495.794,"body":"hang everything on, right. But I think the more we know, the more we know"},{"startTime":496.69399999999996,"endTime":500.39,"body":"that so much of how we function is stored"},{"startTime":500.462,"endTime":503.75399999999996,"body":"in our cellular data, is stored in our bodies,"},{"startTime":504.614,"endTime":508.34999999999997,"body":"that we are mind body spirits, and we cannot think"},{"startTime":508.42199999999997,"endTime":511.234,"body":"our way out of most of our problems or"},{"startTime":512.494,"endTime":516.326,"body":"certainly not our traumas. And so when we just talk about"},{"startTime":516.35,"endTime":519.63,"body":"just reading the Bible and understanding it, that is not a"},{"startTime":519.662,"endTime":523.342,"body":"holistic way of integrating it. And so"},{"startTime":523.398,"endTime":527.1899999999999,"body":"integration has to come through spiritual revelation."},{"startTime":527.382,"endTime":530.9499999999999,"body":"It's going to come through physical revelation. Right. Like, let's"},{"startTime":531.062,"endTime":534.846,"body":"use baptism as an example. That's. That's a, you know, it's an embodied"},{"startTime":534.91,"endTime":538.558,"body":"practice. Um, but God"},{"startTime":538.606,"endTime":542.342,"body":"created this body, and there are"},{"startTime":542.358,"endTime":546.078,"body":"so many tools that he created, both in nature and in the body to"},{"startTime":546.126,"endTime":549.9499999999999,"body":"heal us on an energetic level, on a cellular level. And those are"},{"startTime":549.982,"endTime":552.994,"body":"embodiment practices that help unlock things."},{"startTime":554.054,"endTime":557.79,"body":"So I think that when we look at over the course"},{"startTime":557.822,"endTime":561.414,"body":"of time, how we've gotten kind of pigeonholed"},{"startTime":561.494,"endTime":565.1899999999999,"body":"into this book is the only thing. I think it comes from a"},{"startTime":565.222,"endTime":568.784,"body":"lack of having integrated certain"},{"startTime":568.864,"endTime":572.584,"body":"revelations about how we can heal in meaningful ways."},{"startTime":572.704,"endTime":576.096,"body":"Those things haven't been received into the church. I think many of them have been"},{"startTime":576.12,"endTime":579.688,"body":"labeled as witchcraft or, you know,"},{"startTime":579.856,"endTime":583.672,"body":"satanic practices. I have to ask myself,"},{"startTime":583.728,"endTime":586.36,"body":"I don't have the answers, right? But I have to ask myself how much of"},{"startTime":586.3919999999999,"endTime":590.136,"body":"that is because of our egos, right? That"},{"startTime":590.1999999999999,"endTime":594.006,"body":"the current leaders, whoever they are, or we are ways that,"},{"startTime":594.0799999999999,"endTime":597.77,"body":"you know, I even may have contributed to this, right. That we like"},{"startTime":597.802,"endTime":601.4739999999999,"body":"to believe that we. I have the answer. I have the answer. I know."},{"startTime":601.634,"endTime":604.986,"body":"And I think as soon as we've decided that I know something and it becomes"},{"startTime":605.01,"endTime":608.6899999999999,"body":"very black and white, we're no longer having flexible thought. We're no longer"},{"startTime":608.722,"endTime":611.934,"body":"able to be open to hear God speak and move in us."},{"startTime":613.274,"endTime":615.986,"body":"We know we're so polarized as a country. All I have to do is read"},{"startTime":616.01,"endTime":619.17,"body":"through the comments of any social media posts and be like, dear God, have mercy."},{"startTime":619.202,"endTime":622.856,"body":"Satan is at work here. Facts, facts. And"},{"startTime":622.88,"endTime":626.072,"body":"so we have to have flexible thinking. When you take the"},{"startTime":626.1279999999999,"endTime":629.816,"body":"Bible on its whole, what is the ultimate"},{"startTime":629.88,"endTime":633.688,"body":"message? Redemption and love. That's the story God telling."},{"startTime":633.816,"endTime":637.072,"body":"And that's what we're talking about here, is that your marriage can be redeemed, it"},{"startTime":637.088,"endTime":640.8,"body":"can be reborn. And so if whatever"},{"startTime":640.872,"endTime":644.48,"body":"the church is delivering isn't about redemption and love, isn't about a balance of grace"},{"startTime":644.512,"endTime":648.168,"body":"and truth, like, it's not accurate, it's not. It's not biblical"},{"startTime":648.336,"endTime":652.1759999999999,"body":"in totality, right? So, no, no, this is. This is great. It's"},{"startTime":652.1999999999999,"endTime":655.9839999999999,"body":"really funny. This is a very sophomore way to look at everything you just said."},{"startTime":656.024,"endTime":659.832,"body":"Brilliantly. But I always wondered, when God kicked Adam and Eve out"},{"startTime":659.848,"endTime":663.328,"body":"of the garden, like, did he say, I'm gonna do you a favor. Here's how"},{"startTime":663.336,"endTime":667.136,"body":"to make a fire, or I'll sit with you first birth. I know you all"},{"startTime":667.16,"endTime":670.3679999999999,"body":"know what you're doing, but I'll help you on that one. Or, hey, did you"},{"startTime":670.376,"endTime":674.172,"body":"know if you rub this medicine, this on your skin, that ant bite is"},{"startTime":674.188,"endTime":677.852,"body":"not going to hurt so much? Like, right. What part did God let Adam and."},{"startTime":677.8679999999999,"endTime":681.516,"body":"Eve and man understand? And what did he help him"},{"startTime":681.54,"endTime":685.108,"body":"with? And my argument, he clearly didn't tell him everything. We're still learning things"},{"startTime":685.156,"endTime":688.9159999999999,"body":"today. Oh, my word. Thousands of years. Well, yes. Yeah. Stuff that"},{"startTime":688.9399999999999,"endTime":692.6279999999999,"body":"we have also learned, right. That's been suppressed. So let's go back to some of"},{"startTime":692.636,"endTime":696.396,"body":"those root issues that are common, that lead to divorce. Right. That if we were"},{"startTime":696.42,"endTime":700.208,"body":"just treating those and ps, many of these root"},{"startTime":700.256,"endTime":703.496,"body":"issues, they can't be treated with counseling. Counseling is a very"},{"startTime":703.56,"endTime":707.4,"body":"intellectual process. And sometimes counseling can create"},{"startTime":707.432,"endTime":710.76,"body":"a state change, or it can help you connect to some dots that actually"},{"startTime":710.832,"endTime":714.64,"body":"creates a partial solution. But counseling alone cannot heal. Um,"},{"startTime":714.672,"endTime":717.4159999999999,"body":"most of these root issues, and let me get into them, and it'll make more"},{"startTime":717.4399999999999,"endTime":720.784,"body":"sense. So a common one that is,"},{"startTime":720.824,"endTime":724.408,"body":"like, super popular in culture today is attachment"},{"startTime":724.456,"endTime":728.064,"body":"styles. Right. An anxious attachment style. And avoid an attachment"},{"startTime":728.1039999999999,"endTime":731.952,"body":"style, like you name it. But one's attachment style affects how"},{"startTime":732.0079999999999,"endTime":735.684,"body":"we do relationship. And very often when you have"},{"startTime":736.784,"endTime":740.36,"body":"unequally yoked marriages, it's because we're really talking about an"},{"startTime":740.3919999999999,"endTime":744.24,"body":"unequal attachment style. Avoidance. Tend to be attracted to anxious, anxious"},{"startTime":744.2719999999999,"endTime":747.824,"body":"to avoidant. I don't want to get in the weeds there, but an attachment"},{"startTime":747.864,"endTime":751.688,"body":"style is something that has some inherited genetic"},{"startTime":751.736,"endTime":755.268,"body":"components, right? Like personality styles and whatnot. But then also"},{"startTime":755.456,"endTime":758.9159999999999,"body":"some nurture related issues that happened"},{"startTime":759.06,"endTime":762.62,"body":"zero to seven very early, early"},{"startTime":762.692,"endTime":766.444,"body":"childhood, sometimes prenatal, sometimes postnatal, but early,"},{"startTime":766.4839999999999,"endTime":770.068,"body":"early stuff. You cannot shift zero to seven brain"},{"startTime":770.116,"endTime":773.74,"body":"maps in counseling by talking about it."},{"startTime":773.932,"endTime":777.564,"body":"Could I dig in right here for. Yes. What I hear you say is"},{"startTime":777.6039999999999,"endTime":781.452,"body":"that the Bible says, well, there are some differences between"},{"startTime":781.5079999999999,"endTime":784.696,"body":"men and women in the way we're wired. But you're saying"},{"startTime":784.76,"endTime":788.328,"body":"even. Even within the genders, we both share different"},{"startTime":788.376,"endTime":791.864,"body":"attachment styles. So it's not as simple as men are this"},{"startTime":791.904,"endTime":795.064,"body":"way, women are this way. No. You're saying we as"},{"startTime":795.1039999999999,"endTime":798.896,"body":"mankind have different attachment styles. Yes, different. Which"},{"startTime":798.92,"endTime":802.256,"body":"you'll never hear at a church. No, no."},{"startTime":802.4,"endTime":806.136,"body":"And it affects"},{"startTime":806.16,"endTime":809.304,"body":"very much how we connect and experience"},{"startTime":809.424,"endTime":813.048,"body":"relationships, whether or not we experience relationships as safe or as"},{"startTime":813.096,"endTime":816.9359999999999,"body":"unsafe. And that extends to how we experience our relationship with God. So"},{"startTime":816.9599999999999,"endTime":820.752,"body":"you take someone who tends to have an avoidant attachment style in a marriage,"},{"startTime":820.888,"endTime":824.512,"body":"they're going to tend to try to be self reliant within the church. You"},{"startTime":824.648,"endTime":828.4639999999999,"body":"take someone who has an anxious attachment style and they don't feel secure. They're"},{"startTime":828.504,"endTime":832.288,"body":"also not going to experience God as a secure provider. They're going"},{"startTime":832.2959999999999,"endTime":835.904,"body":"to have a very anxious relationship with God. So anybody"},{"startTime":835.944,"endTime":839.696,"body":"who's getting divorced, I just, as a clinician, as a human, as"},{"startTime":839.72,"endTime":843.4639999999999,"body":"a christian, whatever it is, I automatically understand that they"},{"startTime":843.504,"endTime":847.216,"body":"have attachment related concerns, which goes back"},{"startTime":847.28,"endTime":850.88,"body":"their very early child brain map. And that has to be"},{"startTime":850.9119999999999,"endTime":854.608,"body":"rewired through a somatic experience. It's"},{"startTime":854.656,"endTime":858.376,"body":"an intricate process. It is not short. But if"},{"startTime":858.48,"endTime":862.0799999999999,"body":"more therapists were that skilled to say, oh,"},{"startTime":862.1519999999999,"endTime":865.9359999999999,"body":"there's, this is, you know, session one, session one. This is the"},{"startTime":865.9599999999999,"endTime":869.808,"body":"attachment style issue that we need. And here's the treatment plan. Right,"},{"startTime":869.856,"endTime":873.476,"body":"like now. Right. That's why the affair happened, because of this,"},{"startTime":873.6,"endTime":877.284,"body":"et cetera and so on. All right, so let me, let me jump way"},{"startTime":877.324,"endTime":880.996,"body":"ahead. And that is. So you. Would you, would"},{"startTime":881.02,"endTime":884.252,"body":"you. Do you recommend that people who get married go through"},{"startTime":884.428,"endTime":888.212,"body":"counseling before they're married to know their attachment style, or you only deal with"},{"startTime":888.228,"endTime":892.004,"body":"the car wrecks and triads? Wouldn't that be"},{"startTime":892.084,"endTime":895.884,"body":"brilliant, Todd? But here's the thing. I went through"},{"startTime":895.924,"endTime":899.62,"body":"premarital counseling in the church and I still got divorced. Imagine that."},{"startTime":899.6519999999999,"endTime":903.1659999999999,"body":"Because you know what we talked about? We talked about fruits in"},{"startTime":903.1899999999999,"endTime":905.034,"body":"premarital counseling. We talked about."},{"startTime":907.534,"endTime":909.434,"body":"You're going to have to edit this part out."},{"startTime":912.8539999999999,"endTime":916.422,"body":"I am drawing a blank. You know that book that everybody reads about?"},{"startTime":916.478,"endTime":919.674,"body":"Oh, no. My brain keeps reaching for it. And then"},{"startTime":921.894,"endTime":925.4739999999999,"body":"in premarital counseling in the church, we talked about love, languages,"},{"startTime":926.534,"endTime":929.5939999999999,"body":"right. Acts of service, words of. Right, like"},{"startTime":930.2239999999999,"endTime":933.832,"body":"that is not diving deep enough to really understand"},{"startTime":933.928,"endTime":937.712,"body":"the viability of this marriage. No. Even enneagram types."},{"startTime":937.848,"endTime":941.632,"body":"But that's still not the exact same thing as attachment. No. As well"},{"startTime":941.688,"endTime":945.472,"body":"as realizing that God has wired us all"},{"startTime":945.528,"endTime":948.904,"body":"certain ways which are identifiable mixed"},{"startTime":948.944,"endTime":952.68,"body":"with trauma. And you said environment of where you"},{"startTime":952.712,"endTime":956.516,"body":"grew up, all these little things make you who you are,"},{"startTime":956.66,"endTime":960.476,"body":"make you, you have defense mechanisms. Some are smart, some"},{"startTime":960.5,"endTime":963.8919999999999,"body":"are not. Yes. Some are good, some are bad. And then you just sort of"},{"startTime":963.908,"endTime":966.212,"body":"live your life. You meet somebody and you fall in love and you're like, okay,"},{"startTime":966.228,"endTime":969.524,"body":"well, I'm gonna marry this person. And you're like, you have no idea who you"},{"startTime":969.564,"endTime":973.252,"body":"really are. They have no idea who they really are. And you're just"},{"startTime":973.308,"endTime":977.108,"body":"coexisting till somebody reacts to one of these problems,"},{"startTime":977.156,"endTime":980.98,"body":"and then we say, oh, they had an affair. Oh, they drink too much. Oh,"},{"startTime":981.012,"endTime":984.778,"body":"they're falling in love with their work and not me and all the reasons."},{"startTime":984.9159999999999,"endTime":988.454,"body":"And really, they're fruits of something way"},{"startTime":988.494,"endTime":992.182,"body":"deeper. Did I say that right? Yes, brilliantly. Yeah. Fruits of"},{"startTime":992.198,"endTime":995.638,"body":"something way deeper. And attachment style is just one lens to look at"},{"startTime":995.6859999999999,"endTime":999.1659999999999,"body":"deeper rooted issues. Right. There are so many issues that we"},{"startTime":999.1899999999999,"endTime":1002.7099999999999,"body":"inherit, genetically or energetically that"},{"startTime":1002.822,"endTime":1006.526,"body":"turn up as depression, anxiety, addiction, OCD,"},{"startTime":1006.59,"endTime":1010.318,"body":"like, name it. There's a lot of that stuff that it's influenced environmentally"},{"startTime":1010.366,"endTime":1014.158,"body":"and how we're raised and how we were parented and what adversities, how much child"},{"startTime":1014.206,"endTime":1017.434,"body":"adversity we experienced or not. Um,"},{"startTime":1017.814,"endTime":1021.542,"body":"let's lay over bad theology over that, because there's all that,"},{"startTime":1021.598,"endTime":1025.198,"body":"and then there's bad theology once again, as a christians, or we're getting"},{"startTime":1025.246,"endTime":1029.0140000000001,"body":"told divorce bad, no matter what, put up with trauma."},{"startTime":1029.174,"endTime":1032.006,"body":"Oh, he hit you. Well, you know, what did you do to make him do"},{"startTime":1032.03,"endTime":1035.726,"body":"that? Or, you know, whatever. All the stuff that we live with, a lot"},{"startTime":1035.75,"endTime":1039.094,"body":"of christians, not all, but a lot, live with"},{"startTime":1039.134,"endTime":1042.958,"body":"this. God will be angry with you if you solve this problem,"},{"startTime":1043.046,"endTime":1046.8220000000001,"body":"because his desire for you to be married trumps his desire for you to"},{"startTime":1046.8380000000002,"endTime":1050.63,"body":"be safe or anything else. And then you live with"},{"startTime":1050.662,"endTime":1054.0780000000002,"body":"that, and then you never, ever get to the root of the problem. Todd, you"},{"startTime":1054.086,"endTime":1057.8220000000001,"body":"were telling, like, I believe my parents story, right? My mother's story and my"},{"startTime":1057.8780000000002,"endTime":1061.086,"body":"story. I believe, you know, I married a"},{"startTime":1061.1100000000001,"endTime":1064.794,"body":"Christian, really pleased my mother,"},{"startTime":1065.174,"endTime":1068.8300000000002,"body":"and good boy from church, he"},{"startTime":1068.862,"endTime":1072.3980000000001,"body":"goes to church, he's a Christian. But there were deep"},{"startTime":1072.486,"endTime":1075.834,"body":"root issues. Both of us had, both of us very much had."},{"startTime":1076.9340000000002,"endTime":1080.702,"body":"But when we made the decision to get divorced, there"},{"startTime":1080.798,"endTime":1084.5980000000002,"body":"were panic things that came up inside of me that"},{"startTime":1084.6460000000002,"endTime":1088.4460000000001,"body":"were so distressing that I really had to"},{"startTime":1088.51,"endTime":1091.8860000000002,"body":"wrestle with God about, am I going to go to hell? And I think when"},{"startTime":1091.91,"endTime":1095.702,"body":"you raise children to, you know, we wouldn't let most"},{"startTime":1095.718,"endTime":1099.1180000000002,"body":"of our young zero to seven kids watch rated r movies, but we would show"},{"startTime":1099.1660000000002,"endTime":1103.0140000000001,"body":"them, you know, the passion of the Christmas, that then"},{"startTime":1103.054,"endTime":1106.726,"body":"we internalize this. Our nervous systems would watch the"},{"startTime":1106.75,"endTime":1110.5420000000001,"body":"passion of the Christ and be like, dear Lord, have mercy. I will be"},{"startTime":1110.718,"endTime":1114.318,"body":"crucified if I don't give or take. Follow this religious"},{"startTime":1114.366,"endTime":1117.9340000000002,"body":"path. It feels life or death to our nervous"},{"startTime":1117.9740000000002,"endTime":1121.1180000000002,"body":"system. And I think I told you about in our conversation, this book that I"},{"startTime":1121.1260000000002,"endTime":1124.2620000000002,"body":"am obsessed with right now, trauma in the pews. I bought it. It's on the"},{"startTime":1124.278,"endTime":1127.6460000000002,"body":"kitchen table. Oh, so good. Right where we're so"},{"startTime":1127.71,"endTime":1131.4940000000001,"body":"afraid from an attachment style perspective. Very often"},{"startTime":1131.534,"endTime":1135.1660000000002,"body":"where we have that, if I go"},{"startTime":1135.23,"endTime":1138.874,"body":"outside of this doctrine, I'm going to get in trouble."},{"startTime":1139.574,"endTime":1143.366,"body":"Right. For even exploring into, for instance, counseling or for me,"},{"startTime":1143.39,"endTime":1146.71,"body":"when I got divorced, that was yoga. I went and found yoga and it was"},{"startTime":1146.7820000000002,"endTime":1150.43,"body":"liberating. But I was like, I would sometimes panic."},{"startTime":1150.5020000000002,"endTime":1153.9260000000002,"body":"Yeah. Is, am I going to get in trouble with God for going to yoga?"},{"startTime":1154.0300000000002,"endTime":1157.71,"body":"Well, I'm going to double that. You're worried about God. You're also worried about"},{"startTime":1157.7420000000002,"endTime":1161.374,"body":"your peers. It's both, right? Yeah. I just kind of, like,"},{"startTime":1161.414,"endTime":1165.054,"body":"burned it down. I was like, well, I'm gonna go find myself and"},{"startTime":1165.174,"endTime":1168.95,"body":"I'm gonna make new groups of people that, you know, where it doesn't feel"},{"startTime":1168.9820000000002,"endTime":1172.614,"body":"so shame based. I went back to church, too. Like, I found church"},{"startTime":1172.654,"endTime":1176.318,"body":"spaces. Right. But it is very hard to create an integrated body mind"},{"startTime":1176.4060000000002,"endTime":1180.182,"body":"healing inside of the church. It's just the things that"},{"startTime":1180.198,"endTime":1184.046,"body":"are truly healing are not celebrated or lifted up in churches. They're"},{"startTime":1184.0700000000002,"endTime":1187.854,"body":"just not. They're not. Okay. I just. I just realized something you already"},{"startTime":1187.894,"endTime":1191.7240000000002,"body":"know, okay. Because it just hit me as an epiphany. So"},{"startTime":1191.804,"endTime":1194.7040000000002,"body":"if you are in a marriage and it is"},{"startTime":1195.4840000000002,"endTime":1199.26,"body":"a dumpster fire and you"},{"startTime":1199.332,"endTime":1202.7,"body":"decide, I am going to try to salvage it to the best of my ability,"},{"startTime":1202.7720000000002,"endTime":1206.308,"body":"and you sort of have this awakening or everything we talk about, you go to"},{"startTime":1206.316,"endTime":1209.9440000000002,"body":"a capture and you're. You get the awakening. It's one thing"},{"startTime":1210.5240000000001,"endTime":1214.2520000000002,"body":"to fix what you think God thinks of you and your situation. It's another"},{"startTime":1214.308,"endTime":1217.7060000000001,"body":"worry about your peers. But if your spouse isn't all in,"},{"startTime":1217.77,"endTime":1221.346,"body":"then, man, how hard is it to stay yoked to"},{"startTime":1221.3700000000001,"endTime":1225.13,"body":"somebody when you're awoke and they're not woke? If that's a weird"},{"startTime":1225.162,"endTime":1228.642,"body":"way to say that, like, isn't that an extra burden of, hey,"},{"startTime":1228.698,"endTime":1231.962,"body":"babe, let's. I know we're mad at each other, and I know we got all"},{"startTime":1231.978,"endTime":1235.2340000000002,"body":"this stuff, but let's fix this. And if only one does"},{"startTime":1235.2740000000001,"endTime":1238.722,"body":"it. Ouch. And I think"},{"startTime":1238.778,"endTime":1242.414,"body":"that that's been my lived clinical experience, is"},{"startTime":1242.834,"endTime":1246.0980000000002,"body":"I'm a marriage and family therapist. I knew in the 6th grade I wanted to"},{"startTime":1246.106,"endTime":1249.738,"body":"be a marriage and family therapist, and that's because I was a child of divorce,"},{"startTime":1249.826,"endTime":1253.5700000000002,"body":"and I was codependently going to spare all the children from having to experience what"},{"startTime":1253.602,"endTime":1257.154,"body":"I experienced, which I"},{"startTime":1257.1940000000002,"endTime":1261.034,"body":"later learned, much later learned, was codependency. But I do believe"},{"startTime":1261.074,"endTime":1264.534,"body":"I'm living in my God given gifts, right? I do believe I'm living my calling."},{"startTime":1265.2740000000001,"endTime":1268.874,"body":"But that said, I went into it wanting to help heal"},{"startTime":1268.914,"endTime":1272.698,"body":"families and marriages and very"},{"startTime":1272.746,"endTime":1276.574,"body":"quickly experienced in my clinical practice that"},{"startTime":1277.834,"endTime":1281.6580000000001,"body":"too often one and not the other is motivated"},{"startTime":1281.7060000000001,"endTime":1285.25,"body":"to do the work. And you can't heal enough to"},{"startTime":1285.2820000000002,"endTime":1288.914,"body":"heal on behalf of your partner. Right. I can't pee for you. There are certain"},{"startTime":1288.9940000000001,"endTime":1292.722,"body":"things I just can't do for you. And that's why, you"},{"startTime":1292.738,"endTime":1296.2140000000002,"body":"know, to circle back to what you said in the beginning, I am pro marriage,"},{"startTime":1296.5140000000001,"endTime":1299.874,"body":"but if we went to the root causes earlier, if we said,"},{"startTime":1299.9940000000001,"endTime":1303.722,"body":"okay, these are attachment style issues, this is actually an addiction issue or this"},{"startTime":1303.738,"endTime":1307.172,"body":"is actually XYZ, I think very quickly people"},{"startTime":1307.228,"endTime":1310.884,"body":"disqualify themselves from being willing to do that work. Now, what we"},{"startTime":1310.924,"endTime":1314.556,"body":"know from divorce rates, you know, broad"},{"startTime":1314.6200000000001,"endTime":1318.316,"body":"statistics, right, that first marriage is 50%, 2nd marriage is 70 something"},{"startTime":1318.38,"endTime":1321.7240000000002,"body":"percent, third marriage, it gets upward in the high 80% divorce"},{"startTime":1321.7640000000001,"endTime":1325.068,"body":"rate. People go on to repeat"},{"startTime":1325.1560000000002,"endTime":1328.8680000000002,"body":"exactly the same patterns if they're not deeply transformed."},{"startTime":1329.036,"endTime":1332.7620000000002,"body":"Deeply transformed. Right. Because you're gonna pick the same type guy"},{"startTime":1332.818,"endTime":1336.594,"body":"or whatever it is from a. Subconscious place, from that zero to seven brain"},{"startTime":1336.634,"endTime":1340.054,"body":"map. Yeah. Okay. Wow. All right, so, um,"},{"startTime":1341.354,"endTime":1345.066,"body":"I'm gonna ask you a really tough question. All right, bring it. My favorite. If"},{"startTime":1345.0900000000001,"endTime":1347.7340000000002,"body":"we have to edit it, we'll edit it. Okay. But"},{"startTime":1349.1940000000002,"endTime":1352.7060000000001,"body":"churches, most, you know, it's. I"},{"startTime":1352.73,"endTime":1356.334,"body":"hate using word all and never, and I hate using"},{"startTime":1356.5140000000001,"endTime":1360.286,"body":"all churches. Right? There are some great churches out there, and some churches do"},{"startTime":1360.3100000000002,"endTime":1363.374,"body":"some things good and some bad, right? So I'm not trying to pick on churches,"},{"startTime":1363.414,"endTime":1366.594,"body":"but in general, churches"},{"startTime":1367.174,"endTime":1370.154,"body":"use affair and abuse."},{"startTime":1370.7740000000001,"endTime":1374.0220000000002,"body":"Those are their trump card. God said, here's the verse about"},{"startTime":1374.0780000000002,"endTime":1377.394,"body":"that. When you counsel"},{"startTime":1379.0140000000001,"endTime":1382.806,"body":"what, where do you tell people they are allowed"},{"startTime":1382.8300000000002,"endTime":1386.6180000000002,"body":"to land? And I'll give you my first"},{"startTime":1386.746,"endTime":1390.5700000000002,"body":"so that you can say whatever you want. But I"},{"startTime":1390.602,"endTime":1394.3380000000002,"body":"do believe that there are people who abandon"},{"startTime":1394.3860000000002,"endTime":1397.894,"body":"their marriages, and that looks multiple ways."},{"startTime":1398.4740000000002,"endTime":1401.9940000000001,"body":"And my argument is, you know, somebody just verbally abuses"},{"startTime":1402.034,"endTime":1405.7540000000001,"body":"somebody just constantly and they live in a state of"},{"startTime":1405.914,"endTime":1409.2420000000002,"body":"high dysregulation. Yes. And it's like,"},{"startTime":1409.4180000000001,"endTime":1413.16,"body":"God doesn't. I don't see anywhere God's asking you to stay in that"},{"startTime":1413.2720000000002,"endTime":1416.9360000000001,"body":"just so his marriage is high. Divorce is bad. Like, why are we supposed"},{"startTime":1416.96,"endTime":1419.976,"body":"to. I don't believe you just should get divorced because you're"},{"startTime":1420.0,"endTime":1423.808,"body":"unhappy or, you know, it's just be better for the kids. Like, I believe"},{"startTime":1423.856,"endTime":1427.592,"body":"you're going to love my answer. Okay, well, hit me. Hit me because I can"},{"startTime":1427.6080000000002,"endTime":1431.44,"body":"go on. I have expounded my reasons that"},{"startTime":1431.472,"endTime":1435.1760000000002,"body":"I believe divorce is okay. And I'm just curious what you"},{"startTime":1435.24,"endTime":1438.9180000000001,"body":"say to people. Um, my answer might"},{"startTime":1439.006,"endTime":1441.034,"body":"is going to be deep and wide. So"},{"startTime":1442.334,"endTime":1444.1940000000002,"body":"we attract"},{"startTime":1445.894,"endTime":1449.574,"body":"spouses. I'm going to get into things that people call"},{"startTime":1449.614,"endTime":1453.0220000000002,"body":"woo woo, but they're not woo woo. They're God's quantum"},{"startTime":1453.1180000000002,"endTime":1456.3020000000001,"body":"worlds that God created. Right? We attract"},{"startTime":1456.438,"endTime":1460.0620000000001,"body":"spouses that are vibrating at a matching frequency,"},{"startTime":1460.1180000000002,"endTime":1463.544,"body":"energetic frequency. That is to say"},{"startTime":1463.7340000000002,"endTime":1466.9560000000001,"body":"that we attract"},{"startTime":1467.02,"endTime":1470.7720000000002,"body":"spouses that we are equally"},{"startTime":1470.8280000000002,"endTime":1474.6760000000002,"body":"yoked. We can't. It's impossible to be unequally yoked,"},{"startTime":1474.7,"endTime":1477.852,"body":"if that makes any sense. We have become so good at"},{"startTime":1477.9080000000001,"endTime":1481.6840000000002,"body":"masking that marriages can"},{"startTime":1481.7640000000001,"endTime":1485.26,"body":"look unequally yoked, but the"},{"startTime":1485.2920000000001,"endTime":1488.98,"body":"codependent attracts the narcissist. And those two"},{"startTime":1489.0520000000001,"endTime":1492.804,"body":"issues have equal levels of pathology. When we look at the"},{"startTime":1492.844,"endTime":1496.692,"body":"neurobiology of trauma, of attachment style,"},{"startTime":1496.748,"endTime":1500.144,"body":"of brain and behavior, it's wild. So"},{"startTime":1501.324,"endTime":1505.1080000000002,"body":"I believe that in God's creation, there are no accidents. Duh, dawn. Um,"},{"startTime":1505.1960000000001,"endTime":1508.692,"body":"however, when these issues are playing out in our marriages,"},{"startTime":1508.8280000000002,"endTime":1512.268,"body":"abuse, addiction, um,"},{"startTime":1512.4360000000001,"endTime":1516.1960000000001,"body":"codependency, attachment styles, you name it, that marriage"},{"startTime":1516.26,"endTime":1520.0520000000001,"body":"becomes a vehicle to heal the thing that was always"},{"startTime":1520.1080000000002,"endTime":1523.508,"body":"at play subconsciously, that was cultivated"},{"startTime":1523.596,"endTime":1527.2040000000002,"body":"either genetically or early childhood brain map, right? And that"},{"startTime":1527.2440000000001,"endTime":1531.0040000000001,"body":"marriage just becomes an echo of what"},{"startTime":1531.044,"endTime":1534.852,"body":"was experienced in early childhood. And now we have the opportunity within"},{"startTime":1534.9080000000001,"endTime":1538.508,"body":"this marriage to heal from the very"},{"startTime":1538.6760000000002,"endTime":1542.5240000000001,"body":"early experiences that created that. That caused me to pick"},{"startTime":1542.564,"endTime":1545.708,"body":"this person in the first place, to cause me to be attracted to this person"},{"startTime":1545.756,"endTime":1548.9840000000002,"body":"in the first place. So now my advice tends to be,"},{"startTime":1549.364,"endTime":1553.1460000000002,"body":"go all in on healing yourself. All in on"},{"startTime":1553.17,"endTime":1556.962,"body":"healing yourself. Attraction over promotion. That's a, you know, a line from"},{"startTime":1556.978,"endTime":1560.7060000000001,"body":"the twelve steps. But while married, you say, while married. Go all"},{"startTime":1560.77,"endTime":1563.294,"body":"in on that. You do you. Because"},{"startTime":1564.9540000000002,"endTime":1567.5780000000002,"body":"this was what, you know, I've always been a systems thinker. This is why I"},{"startTime":1567.586,"endTime":1569.8020000000001,"body":"wanted to be a marriage and family therapist. They tried to, in college, they tried"},{"startTime":1569.818,"endTime":1571.826,"body":"to get me to be a social worker. And I'm like, no, I'm a systems"},{"startTime":1571.8500000000001,"endTime":1575.4740000000002,"body":"thinker. You change one part of the system and the entire system becomes"},{"startTime":1575.5140000000001,"endTime":1579.218,"body":"changed. It ripples. Yep. Right? So if I've got a"},{"startTime":1579.266,"endTime":1582.674,"body":"shot at redeeming this marriage, heal"},{"startTime":1582.7140000000002,"endTime":1586.226,"body":"myself, body, mind, spirit, not just spiritually, because that's not."},{"startTime":1586.2900000000002,"endTime":1590.0980000000002,"body":"That's. God is a. Is a trinity, right?"},{"startTime":1590.226,"endTime":1593.4940000000001,"body":"A triune God, body, mind, spirit. So"},{"startTime":1594.354,"endTime":1598.13,"body":"heal yourself on all those levels as best you can while still in the place,"},{"startTime":1598.2420000000002,"endTime":1601.97,"body":"right? In the hard place with the hard person or whatever. And that's the shot"},{"startTime":1602.0020000000002,"endTime":1605.586,"body":"you got at your miracle, if you will. Right? Go all in,"},{"startTime":1605.6100000000001,"endTime":1609.4160000000002,"body":"become well boundaried, cultivate a secure attachment style."},{"startTime":1609.48,"endTime":1613.2800000000002,"body":"Cultivate a deep, meaningful relationship with God, which most of us that"},{"startTime":1613.3120000000001,"endTime":1616.1280000000002,"body":"are in the early stages, most of us who are questioning, should I get a"},{"startTime":1616.1360000000002,"endTime":1619.8880000000001,"body":"divorce typically don't have a deep, meaningful relationship with God. We"},{"startTime":1619.8960000000002,"endTime":1623.384,"body":"have a very surface level relationship with God. Um, I"},{"startTime":1623.4640000000002,"endTime":1627.2640000000001,"body":"I. Right. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, but that's, you know,"},{"startTime":1627.304,"endTime":1630.24,"body":"maybe you have someone who did go all in on healing, and they're still wrestling"},{"startTime":1630.2720000000002,"endTime":1634.064,"body":"with this question, and they're at that end stage of, um, healing themselves and trying,"},{"startTime":1634.104,"endTime":1637.7160000000001,"body":"but most of the time. Right. So go all in on healing"},{"startTime":1637.74,"endTime":1641.276,"body":"yourself. And then from a grounded place where you've"},{"startTime":1641.3000000000002,"endTime":1644.7640000000001,"body":"wrestled it out with God, where you've wrestled it out with a very skilled therapist,"},{"startTime":1644.804,"endTime":1648.46,"body":"where you've healed these things and you've changed your brain map, you're"},{"startTime":1648.4920000000002,"endTime":1652.236,"body":"vibrating at a different frequency. Now, make your decision, and your partner may or may"},{"startTime":1652.26,"endTime":1655.836,"body":"not have come along. Right. And from there,"},{"startTime":1656.02,"endTime":1658.904,"body":"I very rarely,"},{"startTime":1659.564,"endTime":1663.152,"body":"if someone comes to that place and regardless of what the issue is that they're"},{"startTime":1663.1680000000001,"endTime":1666.9920000000002,"body":"grappling with at that point, root or fruit. Right. I would"},{"startTime":1667.048,"endTime":1670.8880000000001,"body":"rarely, rarely condemn any"},{"startTime":1670.9360000000001,"endTime":1674.672,"body":"decision from that spot because some things, we"},{"startTime":1674.688,"endTime":1678.432,"body":"just have to wrestle with God, and I believe that God uses"},{"startTime":1678.568,"endTime":1681.968,"body":"everything for good, that, you know, very"},{"startTime":1682.056,"endTime":1685.808,"body":"often things that we don't understand that are going to come as"},{"startTime":1685.816,"endTime":1689.318,"body":"a result of a transformation, come through painful experiences. For"},{"startTime":1689.366,"endTime":1692.99,"body":"me, my divorce was that point of liberation where I really"},{"startTime":1693.0620000000001,"endTime":1696.5980000000002,"body":"stepped into everything that God wanted for me in my life. And it"},{"startTime":1696.6460000000002,"endTime":1699.8860000000002,"body":"truly, I believe it was the right thing."},{"startTime":1700.0300000000002,"endTime":1703.614,"body":"And I"},{"startTime":1703.654,"endTime":1707.366,"body":"just think that the biggest right"},{"startTime":1707.39,"endTime":1710.582,"body":"or wrong that we could, if, you know, because we get really dogmatic about what"},{"startTime":1710.5980000000002,"endTime":1714.2620000000002,"body":"is right and what is wrong and the biggest right or wrong that we need"},{"startTime":1714.278,"endTime":1717.91,"body":"to be measuring against is love and redemption and to"},{"startTime":1717.942,"endTime":1720.594,"body":"understand that redemption can come out of any story."},{"startTime":1721.334,"endTime":1725.0300000000002,"body":"So you're never going to hear me condemn, condemn someone's"},{"startTime":1725.0620000000001,"endTime":1728.354,"body":"choice to get divorced regardless of root or fruit,"},{"startTime":1729.2140000000002,"endTime":1732.814,"body":"because it's all going to turn into fertilizer. That's right."},{"startTime":1732.894,"endTime":1736.1260000000002,"body":"Okay. Right. And I was going to say something, too. The other day, somebody told"},{"startTime":1736.15,"endTime":1739.9820000000002,"body":"me something about redemption. You're talking about my marriage. And they were asking if"},{"startTime":1739.998,"endTime":1743.4940000000001,"body":"there was a redemption story. And my. Hold on, I got to hit"},{"startTime":1743.534,"endTime":1747.2420000000002,"body":"stop. Oh, there it is. So I was talking to"},{"startTime":1747.258,"endTime":1750.9060000000002,"body":"somebody the other day about my redemption story, and they were talking about redemption of"},{"startTime":1750.93,"endTime":1754.698,"body":"marriage. Like, is there a chance your marriage has redemption? I was like, no,"},{"startTime":1754.826,"endTime":1758.2420000000002,"body":"but there is a chance of redemption. Like, I'm not going to let you define"},{"startTime":1758.298,"endTime":1761.8500000000001,"body":"what redemption looks like. Redemption looks like we are. Right. That's when we get too"},{"startTime":1761.882,"endTime":1765.174,"body":"dogmatic about things. It's. We. We miss the message."},{"startTime":1765.594,"endTime":1768.814,"body":"I totally agree. Okay, so what you're saying is"},{"startTime":1769.1940000000002,"endTime":1772.8400000000001,"body":"by the time you work on yourself and"},{"startTime":1772.872,"endTime":1776.6080000000002,"body":"you come back to your marriage, you have a better set"},{"startTime":1776.6560000000002,"endTime":1780.1840000000002,"body":"of lenses. And the problem is either still going on or it"},{"startTime":1780.2240000000002,"endTime":1783.7440000000001,"body":"stopped or whatever, or. It'S improved or it improved. But if"},{"startTime":1783.784,"endTime":1786.8400000000001,"body":"two people both worked on themselves with clear"},{"startTime":1786.912,"endTime":1790.6560000000002,"body":"lenses, I believe, and I haven't set the chairs you've sat"},{"startTime":1790.68,"endTime":1793.2320000000002,"body":"in. So you tell me where I'm right or wrong. I believe there ought to"},{"startTime":1793.248,"endTime":1796.804,"body":"be a high lens of grace on to say,"},{"startTime":1797.1840000000002,"endTime":1801.026,"body":"wow, I was so messed up. No wonder"},{"startTime":1801.17,"endTime":1804.9460000000001,"body":"you did what you did. Yes. Or I caused that. I was a"},{"startTime":1804.97,"endTime":1808.722,"body":"part of it. Not nobody's innocent. When we realize the mess we"},{"startTime":1808.738,"endTime":1812.054,"body":"have, no one's innocent. And then you can look back and say, okay,"},{"startTime":1812.354,"endTime":1816.122,"body":"now, I did love you. I loved you in a different way. Now I"},{"startTime":1816.1380000000001,"endTime":1819.8100000000002,"body":"think I can love you better and different. Let's throw that marriage out the"},{"startTime":1819.842,"endTime":1823.1860000000001,"body":"window. Not divorce. Roll that. And, yeah."},{"startTime":1823.2900000000002,"endTime":1826.534,"body":"Rebirth, right? Brand new. Yeah. Start over. Start again."},{"startTime":1826.9940000000001,"endTime":1830.788,"body":"I tell you that all the time. Like, if people try. I'm trying to salvage"},{"startTime":1830.836,"endTime":1833.884,"body":"my marriage. I'm like, well, you can salvage the same sheet of paper down to"},{"startTime":1833.884,"endTime":1837.5720000000001,"body":"the courthouse, but that marriage is dead, dead, dead."},{"startTime":1837.6680000000001,"endTime":1841.1840000000002,"body":"You're starting over and you're going to have to"},{"startTime":1841.604,"endTime":1844.852,"body":"burn everything to the ground and say, I"},{"startTime":1844.9080000000001,"endTime":1848.7040000000002,"body":"love the person that's behind that mask that I've been"},{"startTime":1849.2040000000002,"endTime":1852.884,"body":"married to. And they're going to have to see if they like the person"},{"startTime":1852.924,"endTime":1856.554,"body":"behind this mask. I think that when two"},{"startTime":1856.594,"endTime":1860.314,"body":"people commit to doing this work, Todd, my podcast"},{"startTime":1860.354,"endTime":1864.082,"body":"producer, actually, producer, Joy, her story is a story of marriage redemption, and"},{"startTime":1864.0980000000002,"endTime":1867.45,"body":"it's remarkable. And I got the joy"},{"startTime":1867.5220000000002,"endTime":1868.134,"body":"of"},{"startTime":1871.154,"endTime":1874.374,"body":"holding space for that marriage to do that. Right. You know?"},{"startTime":1874.674,"endTime":1878.106,"body":"Right. You got a therapist in the family, you know, and a"},{"startTime":1878.13,"endTime":1881.818,"body":"relentless one at that. Right. Like, I don't hold any punches"},{"startTime":1881.866,"endTime":1885.21,"body":"where it comes to feedback and calling it. And anyways,"},{"startTime":1885.3220000000001,"endTime":1889.154,"body":"so when two people really commit to the. To the root cause"},{"startTime":1889.1940000000002,"endTime":1892.9940000000001,"body":"work, not the fruit work. Right. It's rare that"},{"startTime":1893.154,"endTime":1896.9460000000001,"body":"I've never seen an example of that not work out if. Both people are"},{"startTime":1896.97,"endTime":1900.73,"body":"all in on the root workout. Root work. Yeah. I've"},{"startTime":1900.7620000000002,"endTime":1903.2140000000002,"body":"actually heard some great stories. My."},{"startTime":1904.554,"endTime":1908.19,"body":"I have some family members who are big into this. This counseling,"},{"startTime":1908.222,"endTime":1911.63,"body":"this level of counseling and this level of never say quit, and they're"},{"startTime":1911.662,"endTime":1915.27,"body":"like, sleep on the back patio and a sleeping"},{"startTime":1915.3020000000001,"endTime":1919.0700000000002,"body":"bag and let that other person know that you may be mad"},{"startTime":1919.102,"endTime":1922.758,"body":"at me or whatever, but I'm here. I am going to be"},{"startTime":1922.806,"endTime":1926.5980000000002,"body":"all in, and I'm putting in the work. And when you're ready, I'll lean"},{"startTime":1926.6460000000002,"endTime":1930.4540000000002,"body":"in, but not, not to save face with the church. Not"},{"startTime":1930.4940000000001,"endTime":1934.342,"body":"because, well, you know, not for. All the superficial reason."},{"startTime":1934.3980000000001,"endTime":1937.784,"body":"Yeah. There's a flawed thought in there."},{"startTime":1939.2440000000001,"endTime":1942.544,"body":"It's an ivory tower thought, I think. Right. When,"},{"startTime":1943.564,"endTime":1947.332,"body":"well, for someone to be able to pull off that,"},{"startTime":1947.3880000000001,"endTime":1951.1480000000001,"body":"they probably have an avoidant attachments to you. True. I think that"},{"startTime":1951.1560000000002,"endTime":1954.884,"body":"was a little hyperbole. But to show the other person I'm"},{"startTime":1954.924,"endTime":1958.66,"body":"not leaving, I am put in the work. That's what I really meant."},{"startTime":1958.692,"endTime":1962.1080000000002,"body":"That was. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I don't know that that level of"},{"startTime":1962.1560000000002,"endTime":1965.9560000000001,"body":"commitment is available to someone that's got that"},{"startTime":1966.02,"endTime":1969.7640000000001,"body":"level of root work to do. Right. I'm just, I'm just saying, like,"},{"startTime":1969.804,"endTime":1973.3480000000002,"body":"if I had had that maturity when I was getting divorced, right. I wouldn't have"},{"startTime":1973.356,"endTime":1977.036,"body":"been getting divorced. So I'm just saying, like, I"},{"startTime":1977.1000000000001,"endTime":1980.4440000000002,"body":"think that's why I really go with the, go all in on your healing"},{"startTime":1980.4840000000002,"endTime":1984.332,"body":"yourself because there's no downside to that. You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1984.3880000000001,"endTime":1988.14,"body":"There's no, it, it removes the needing to grapple with. Can"},{"startTime":1988.172,"endTime":1991.9,"body":"I commit to this? Or every time I start to get in the inquiry,"},{"startTime":1991.932,"endTime":1994.932,"body":"should I say or should I go, my nervous system gets dysregulated because all my"},{"startTime":1994.948,"endTime":1998.6380000000001,"body":"abandonment stuff, you know, I just think when you remove it, even"},{"startTime":1998.6860000000001,"endTime":2002.094,"body":"being about the marriage, and it just becomes about me with me, because it's always"},{"startTime":2002.174,"endTime":2005.594,"body":"me with me and me with God. Right. It just"},{"startTime":2006.0140000000001,"endTime":2009.7420000000002,"body":"creates a healthier space. I think that when we start"},{"startTime":2009.9180000000001,"endTime":2013.222,"body":"talking about, I'm going to stay no matter"},{"startTime":2013.278,"endTime":2016.6460000000002,"body":"what. I don't know. I don't think that's realistic."},{"startTime":2016.7900000000002,"endTime":2020.606,"body":"Yeah, no, I get that view. I also know that there are"},{"startTime":2020.63,"endTime":2024.2340000000002,"body":"people. Well, you feel. I feel so"},{"startTime":2024.2740000000001,"endTime":2027.698,"body":"ignorant. Talk to somebody who has the words around my thoughts."},{"startTime":2027.826,"endTime":2031.6660000000002,"body":"So. But I love. That's such a good feeling, though, like, oh, you read my"},{"startTime":2031.69,"endTime":2034.854,"body":"mind. Yeah. I like the idea of"},{"startTime":2035.5140000000001,"endTime":2039.1860000000001,"body":"a person who is ready to make the choice of"},{"startTime":2039.21,"endTime":2042.818,"body":"divorce and the other person just saying I'm willing to put in the work."},{"startTime":2042.9060000000002,"endTime":2045.6940000000002,"body":"Uh huh. That's what I mean. Yes. Okay. That"},{"startTime":2046.114,"endTime":2049.918,"body":"humility. The humility of saying, I don't know. What I don't"},{"startTime":2049.966,"endTime":2053.678,"body":"know. I believe in miracles. I'm willing. I'm willing. And"},{"startTime":2053.686,"endTime":2057.214,"body":"then proving that. Not just getting into the I'm right, you're"},{"startTime":2057.254,"endTime":2060.926,"body":"wrong. Yeah game. Yeah. I want to say"},{"startTime":2060.9500000000003,"endTime":2064.694,"body":"so because I wrote this down as a question for you just to see"},{"startTime":2064.734,"endTime":2066.382,"body":"what your thoughts were. But"},{"startTime":2066.558,"endTime":2070.27,"body":"I'm embarrassed"},{"startTime":2070.302,"endTime":2074.071,"body":"to say it took my world burning down for me"},{"startTime":2074.087,"endTime":2077.799,"body":"to put in the work. Samesies. What to do, what"},{"startTime":2077.911,"endTime":2081.687,"body":"samesies. Like, yeah, it sucks"},{"startTime":2081.775,"endTime":2085.6150000000002,"body":"because it's just like telling somebody. Somebody has a heart attack and they tell"},{"startTime":2085.639,"endTime":2088.935,"body":"somebody, you know, you really need to exercise. And everybody's like, okay, whatever. Then you."},{"startTime":2088.9990000000003,"endTime":2092.003,"body":"Then they have their heart attack. You're like, hey, we got exercise. Yeah."},{"startTime":2092.543,"endTime":2095.9590000000003,"body":"I feel like I am not the man"},{"startTime":2096.1510000000003,"endTime":2099.775,"body":"that I am today had it not been for my divorce,"},{"startTime":2099.839,"endTime":2103.623,"body":"because in my marriage, I would have had no motivation."},{"startTime":2103.743,"endTime":2106.743,"body":"Yeah. To work on myself. And it just is"},{"startTime":2106.823,"endTime":2110.455,"body":"frustrating because I just. On this side of it, I want to tell"},{"startTime":2110.4790000000003,"endTime":2114.223,"body":"everybody, if you put in the work, your marriage will"},{"startTime":2114.263,"endTime":2117.943,"body":"ten x and you'll live a vibrant life like"},{"startTime":2118.063,"endTime":2121.679,"body":"people do it. Yeah. Well, I think that's why we're here having this"},{"startTime":2121.7110000000002,"endTime":2125.511,"body":"conversation. Right. So I don't know about you, but I didn't have this"},{"startTime":2125.607,"endTime":2129.415,"body":"message. Right. I didn't. Never heard it. This. Never heard"},{"startTime":2129.4390000000003,"endTime":2133.119,"body":"it. Never heard it. I was told to pray more. I was told to study"},{"startTime":2133.1510000000003,"endTime":2136.8140000000003,"body":"my Bible more. I was a therapist, so I knew about"},{"startTime":2136.8540000000003,"endTime":2140.358,"body":"counseling, but I didn't know about any counseling. That was"},{"startTime":2140.446,"endTime":2143.75,"body":"treatment of root issues. Nobody ever explained to me what my root issues"},{"startTime":2143.822,"endTime":2147.054,"body":"were. I really believe that we are in a different"},{"startTime":2147.214,"endTime":2150.606,"body":"time collectively with regards to access to the"},{"startTime":2150.63,"endTime":2154.366,"body":"information. And that pivoted during COVID when we were all sitting at home"},{"startTime":2154.39,"endTime":2157.75,"body":"with our phones and TikTok and we learned about what these root issues"},{"startTime":2157.822,"endTime":2161.582,"body":"are. Education, availability was better."},{"startTime":2161.638,"endTime":2165.2380000000003,"body":"We had more free time. Yep. And then people are putting out more"},{"startTime":2165.286,"endTime":2168.774,"body":"content that's readily available. Yes, yes. And it hasn't"},{"startTime":2168.8140000000003,"endTime":2172.23,"body":"permeated to all the layers of society, but there's enough of it there that it's"},{"startTime":2172.262,"endTime":2175.966,"body":"gaining momentum. It's my. You know, you have your lens."},{"startTime":2176.07,"endTime":2179.75,"body":"My lighthouse is just to get churches to have"},{"startTime":2179.822,"endTime":2183.214,"body":"epiphanies. Like a paradigm shift. I want churches,"},{"startTime":2183.3340000000003,"endTime":2186.646,"body":"yes. To realize that the Bible can still be"},{"startTime":2186.67,"endTime":2190.486,"body":"true, but that truth outside of the Bible,"},{"startTime":2190.67,"endTime":2194.19,"body":"embrace it, encourage it. There's holistic"},{"startTime":2194.262,"endTime":2198.0060000000003,"body":"ways to approach issues. And then the word I"},{"startTime":2198.03,"endTime":2201.686,"body":"want to keep using is trauma. Like, whether it's trauma of"},{"startTime":2201.71,"endTime":2205.35,"body":"divorce or the trauma. Whatever gets you in divorce, it's still trauma. And"},{"startTime":2205.462,"endTime":2208.766,"body":"the church doesn't talk about trauma. It's not even a word."},{"startTime":2208.87,"endTime":2212.35,"body":"No. It's not even our theological lexicon."},{"startTime":2212.462,"endTime":2216.222,"body":"No. And I. Why? I know when I read trauma in the"},{"startTime":2216.2380000000003,"endTime":2219.906,"body":"pews, the first thing I did was give a copy to my pastor. Okay. Wow."},{"startTime":2219.9700000000003,"endTime":2223.61,"body":"Yeah. All the way. I'm barely in it. I came on your"},{"startTime":2223.6420000000003,"endTime":2227.482,"body":"recommendation, so, yeah, I'm actually headed on a vacation, and I'm taking it"},{"startTime":2227.498,"endTime":2229.974,"body":"with me. So I'm gonna consume the whole thing in a week."},{"startTime":2231.074,"endTime":2234.014,"body":"Yeah. So what? Yeah. What is that? Like? Like,"},{"startTime":2234.954,"endTime":2238.146,"body":"there's a thousand things God left out of the Bible. Right? He didn't teach us"},{"startTime":2238.17,"endTime":2241.618,"body":"how to raise teenagers. He didn't teach us how. What to do about social"},{"startTime":2241.666,"endTime":2245.378,"body":"media. Yeah. Teaches any of that stuff. Right? Yeah. But. But this"},{"startTime":2245.426,"endTime":2249.002,"body":"idea of, like. Oh, yeah. There are physical mental changes during"},{"startTime":2249.058,"endTime":2252.7200000000003,"body":"trauma, and it's just a thing, and you'll have to"},{"startTime":2252.752,"endTime":2255.152,"body":"study it and learn it and adapt to it, but I'm not even going to"},{"startTime":2255.168,"endTime":2257.272,"body":"teach you how to. I'm not even going to give you a heads up on"},{"startTime":2257.288,"endTime":2259.952,"body":"it. Yes. I don't know. But let me say this. I don't. I don't know"},{"startTime":2259.9680000000003,"endTime":2263.072,"body":"that that's true. I don't know that that's really true. Let me say this. I'm"},{"startTime":2263.088,"endTime":2265.5640000000003,"body":"going to go to the. I'm going to really go to the out there place."},{"startTime":2266.264,"endTime":2270.0640000000003,"body":"Something I've been called to in the last couple of years is something"},{"startTime":2270.1040000000003,"endTime":2273.936,"body":"called constitutional homeopathy, okay? Homeopathy is"},{"startTime":2273.96,"endTime":2277.668,"body":"not widely understood, and it's not widely accepted, but there was this guy"},{"startTime":2277.716,"endTime":2281.268,"body":"in 1779. His name is Hahnemann. In the christian"},{"startTime":2281.3160000000003,"endTime":2285.1040000000003,"body":"circles, he is known as a freemason, and therefore is"},{"startTime":2285.844,"endTime":2289.076,"body":"whatever. I don't even know what goes on in the christian circles about that. Right."},{"startTime":2289.1,"endTime":2292.588,"body":"But, like, just forget about it. Okay? So whether he was or he wasn't, I"},{"startTime":2292.596,"endTime":2295.8920000000003,"body":"don't know. I don't care. Right? But he's a. He's a preeminent doctor of the"},{"startTime":2295.908,"endTime":2299.304,"body":"time. He studied in Leipzig, he studied in Vienna. And"},{"startTime":2299.764,"endTime":2303.5080000000003,"body":"so, like, whatever preeminent doctoring was in the late 17 hundreds,"},{"startTime":2303.636,"endTime":2307.366,"body":"I don't know. Right? But they're treating malaria with"},{"startTime":2307.39,"endTime":2311.1820000000002,"body":"cinchona bark and something like, he's got, like, a little itch in the"},{"startTime":2311.198,"endTime":2313.462,"body":"back of his brain, and he's like, well, I don't have malaria. What happens if"},{"startTime":2313.478,"endTime":2317.222,"body":"I eat the chinchona bark and he eats it and he gets"},{"startTime":2317.2780000000002,"endTime":2320.726,"body":"all the symptoms of malaria? Not malaria,"},{"startTime":2320.87,"endTime":2324.638,"body":"but the presentation of those symptoms. And this is where we live in a"},{"startTime":2324.646,"endTime":2328.3140000000003,"body":"vibrational world. Like, calls to, like. Like, cures. Like,"},{"startTime":2329.014,"endTime":2332.55,"body":"then him and his buddies, whoever those people are, they're like, let's go out"},{"startTime":2332.6220000000003,"endTime":2336.1020000000003,"body":"proving a bunch, right? Let's just start eating stuff and recording symptoms and"},{"startTime":2336.158,"endTime":2339.862,"body":"matching it to disease profiles, and"},{"startTime":2339.878,"endTime":2343.59,"body":"their homeopathy is born. Now, you can use homeopathy to"},{"startTime":2343.6220000000003,"endTime":2347.318,"body":"treat an acute issue. Like, I stubbed my toe. You would use arnica."},{"startTime":2347.446,"endTime":2351.198,"body":"Um. Right. Or, um. I have"},{"startTime":2351.326,"endTime":2354.934,"body":"watery eyes and a stuffy nose. Allium sepa."},{"startTime":2354.974,"endTime":2358.686,"body":"It's that's onion. Right? So when we cut onions. Right. What's"},{"startTime":2358.71,"endTime":2361.3540000000003,"body":"the. What's the symptom profile of. Right. Is"},{"startTime":2361.994,"endTime":2365.378,"body":"allergies. Right. Okay. So I could use allium to treat allergies, right?"},{"startTime":2365.426,"endTime":2369.17,"body":"Or you could practice constitutional homeopathy, which is what I've added"},{"startTime":2369.202,"endTime":2372.818,"body":"to my therapy practice, where you take the totality"},{"startTime":2372.866,"endTime":2376.2580000000003,"body":"of someone's symptoms, body, mind, spirit, through the"},{"startTime":2376.306,"endTime":2380.002,"body":"timeline of their entire life, and you find that"},{"startTime":2380.058,"endTime":2383.754,"body":"matching remedy in nature. And"},{"startTime":2383.794,"endTime":2387.466,"body":"that goes to the energetic core. Talk about root versus"},{"startTime":2387.53,"endTime":2391.0260000000003,"body":"fruit. I have started using this in my practice, and the"},{"startTime":2391.05,"endTime":2394.402,"body":"transformations I've seen go so far and beyond what any"},{"startTime":2394.458,"endTime":2398.17,"body":"counselor or therapist or, I don't know, yoga can"},{"startTime":2398.202,"endTime":2401.054,"body":"even accomplish. It is wild,"},{"startTime":2401.8740000000003,"endTime":2405.3740000000003,"body":"and this is not."},{"startTime":2405.674,"endTime":2409.474,"body":"Well, I have seen. I don't have the scripture for you, but, gosh, I"},{"startTime":2409.514,"endTime":2413.2980000000002,"body":"should go find it. But there are places in scripture I've seen. Homeopaths who have"},{"startTime":2413.346,"endTime":2417.054,"body":"studied for years will reference where homeopathy can"},{"startTime":2417.094,"endTime":2420.8140000000003,"body":"be seen in the Bible, where God gave"},{"startTime":2420.8540000000003,"endTime":2424.606,"body":"us everything we need to heal"},{"startTime":2424.67,"endTime":2427.514,"body":"and to be whole. It was already here. We didn't need to cure cancer."},{"startTime":2428.494,"endTime":2432.1020000000003,"body":"Homeopathy already cures cancer. Right. But we thought we had to"},{"startTime":2432.118,"endTime":2435.886,"body":"reinvent the wheel. And you have me at hello on"},{"startTime":2435.9100000000003,"endTime":2439.0860000000002,"body":"this. Like, I know there will be people listening. This is a little too much"},{"startTime":2439.11,"endTime":2442.6800000000003,"body":"for their fundamental baptist brain, but it doesn't mean it's not"},{"startTime":2442.712,"endTime":2446.4,"body":"true. Right? Okay. Exactly. I did not this"},{"startTime":2446.4320000000002,"endTime":2448.696,"body":"morning when I woke up, think I was going to ask you this question, but"},{"startTime":2448.7200000000003,"endTime":2452.284,"body":"we have walked down this trail and I'm walking even further. Yeah,"},{"startTime":2453.0640000000003,"endTime":2455.6040000000003,"body":"you and I did have a talk about yoga the other day,"},{"startTime":2456.944,"endTime":2460.64,"body":"and I. Once again, I'm going to beat a dead horse here."},{"startTime":2460.672,"endTime":2464.2560000000003,"body":"But it's a big concept. The Bible can be all true, but not all"},{"startTime":2464.28,"endTime":2467.944,"body":"truths in the Bible. Well, if that is true, that there"},{"startTime":2467.984,"endTime":2471.64,"body":"are truths that are God's truths, because they're true, he just"},{"startTime":2471.672,"endTime":2474.712,"body":"didn't reveal him. He didn't. It wasn't important to him. Or he's like, yeah, yeah,"},{"startTime":2474.728,"endTime":2477.2960000000003,"body":"I'll figure that out. You figure out about the moon and how long it takes"},{"startTime":2477.32,"endTime":2480.164,"body":"to go around there. I'm not telling you. You'll figure that out."},{"startTime":2480.824,"endTime":2484.0640000000003,"body":"Well, I actually believe there are some"},{"startTime":2484.184,"endTime":2487.976,"body":"truths that we are told not to"},{"startTime":2488.0,"endTime":2491.536,"body":"mess with, and then there are some just truths that I didn't say that was"},{"startTime":2491.56,"endTime":2495.216,"body":"off limits, but we as christians make it off limits. So the Bible"},{"startTime":2495.28,"endTime":2498.742,"body":"does say, stay away from witchcraft. Well, there's a verse"},{"startTime":2498.7980000000002,"endTime":2502.5660000000003,"body":"where Saul summoned a witch and then he"},{"startTime":2502.59,"endTime":2505.59,"body":"talked to Elijah. Well, was the Bible didn't say that wasn't"},{"startTime":2505.6220000000003,"endTime":2509.27,"body":"Elijah. He didn't say he thought it was a lot. It was Elijah. Like"},{"startTime":2509.302,"endTime":2512.918,"body":"somehow, some way, a witch summoned"},{"startTime":2513.0060000000003,"endTime":2516.686,"body":"somebody. Well, the Bible just says that was a sin. Like,"},{"startTime":2516.71,"endTime":2520.126,"body":"he shouldn't have done that. Right? Like, that wasn't what he should have done. Okay,"},{"startTime":2520.15,"endTime":2523.902,"body":"I buy that. But when? When, and I'm going to use the"},{"startTime":2523.918,"endTime":2527.65,"body":"word God, but it's not yoga. What's the other one? That tantric,"},{"startTime":2527.802,"endTime":2531.474,"body":"this idea of, like, well, this space has yellow energy,"},{"startTime":2531.554,"endTime":2535.0660000000003,"body":"and this one has red energy, and we have these. Oh, Reiki. Reiki."},{"startTime":2535.17,"endTime":2539.01,"body":"Mm hmm. Yes, Reiki. I'm sorry. Well, yeah, I don't know what the tantric came"},{"startTime":2539.042,"endTime":2541.534,"body":"from. Anyway, whatever. The point is,"},{"startTime":2542.634,"endTime":2545.386,"body":"doesn't mean God's like, yeah, that's the way I created it. I didn't tell you"},{"startTime":2545.4100000000003,"endTime":2549.186,"body":"that, but that's true. That's the way I created it. They're doing those things without"},{"startTime":2549.29,"endTime":2553.114,"body":"a godly worldview, and so they turn it into. Their own without"},{"startTime":2553.194,"endTime":2556.866,"body":"a godly worldview. That's it. Right. So with a godly"},{"startTime":2556.89,"endTime":2560.6820000000002,"body":"worldview, why is. It wrong wrestling these things with God? And they"},{"startTime":2560.698,"endTime":2563.0260000000003,"body":"have been coming up hard and fast in my life. I will give you some"},{"startTime":2563.05,"endTime":2565.666,"body":"examples. I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm going to put my stuff out there, right?"},{"startTime":2565.77,"endTime":2569.402,"body":"Please. I'm doing. When I read trauma in the pews, I experienced a state"},{"startTime":2569.458,"endTime":2573.242,"body":"change because I have a lot of religious trauma. I"},{"startTime":2573.2580000000003,"endTime":2575.866,"body":"went away from the church for a very long time, and not because I wanted"},{"startTime":2575.89,"endTime":2579.694,"body":"to, but because it was not a safe place for me. And I had to"},{"startTime":2580.954,"endTime":2584.614,"body":"heal enough that I could even tolerate words like Jesus"},{"startTime":2585.254,"endTime":2587.8740000000003,"body":"and Bible and scripture. And"},{"startTime":2588.574,"endTime":2592.302,"body":"it's in recent history that I am able to sit with those things and"},{"startTime":2592.318,"endTime":2595.674,"body":"feel good with them. Okay. But I never went away from God."},{"startTime":2596.494,"endTime":2600.11,"body":"Right away from you. I was getting closer to God"},{"startTime":2600.262,"endTime":2603.9500000000003,"body":"while I was further from church. Oh, would you look at that."},{"startTime":2603.982,"endTime":2606.686,"body":"Now, what are some of the tools I used to get closer to God while"},{"startTime":2606.71,"endTime":2610.326,"body":"I was moving further from church? There are things that"},{"startTime":2610.39,"endTime":2614.214,"body":"many christians would call witchcraft. I used tarot cards, I used"},{"startTime":2614.254,"endTime":2617.982,"body":"crystals, I used reiki, I used all of those"},{"startTime":2618.038,"endTime":2621.782,"body":"things to draw closer to God. I used law of attraction."},{"startTime":2621.918,"endTime":2625.534,"body":"And in the end, because I was coming at all of those"},{"startTime":2625.574,"endTime":2629.342,"body":"things with a godly mindset, you"},{"startTime":2629.358,"endTime":2632.35,"body":"were looking at. Like, I'm not looking for a replacement for God. I'm seeing God"},{"startTime":2632.382,"endTime":2635.55,"body":"is in this different mindset. Yes."},{"startTime":2635.742,"endTime":2639.014,"body":"Yes. Interesting. And did, did you,"},{"startTime":2639.3140000000003,"endTime":2643.082,"body":"was the journey hard? Because, you know, there's the Jerry Falwell approach"},{"startTime":2643.138,"endTime":2645.138,"body":"of like, I don't need to stick my head in the sewer to know it"},{"startTime":2645.146,"endTime":2648.002,"body":"stinks. And then other people are like, well, no, I need to stick my head"},{"startTime":2648.018,"endTime":2651.054,"body":"in. I'll make a decision. Like, you can know"},{"startTime":2651.514,"endTime":2655.306,"body":"something is not of God. It doesn't mean that you as"},{"startTime":2655.33,"endTime":2659.146,"body":"christians can't own it. Like acupuncture, for people listening who don't know"},{"startTime":2659.17,"endTime":2662.802,"body":"what we're talking about, this is called acupuncture. Acupuncture is not the"},{"startTime":2662.818,"endTime":2666.486,"body":"Bible. But then there are people who do acupuncture. It's like,"},{"startTime":2666.51,"endTime":2670.19,"body":"well, as a Christian, like, why can't I do acupuncture? It's not the Bible. But"},{"startTime":2670.262,"endTime":2673.886,"body":"what if that the truths are there and I"},{"startTime":2673.9100000000003,"endTime":2677.478,"body":"can know there's a God, I know there's a trinity. I have"},{"startTime":2677.606,"endTime":2681.35,"body":"good theology, and I still can go get acupuncture. Why can't that"},{"startTime":2681.382,"endTime":2684.194,"body":"work with other things? I think that"},{"startTime":2688.994,"endTime":2690.614,"body":"I want to get this really right."},{"startTime":2695.794,"endTime":2698.974,"body":"Christians have lost track"},{"startTime":2699.274,"endTime":2702.962,"body":"of, I'm painting with a broad brush, obviously."},{"startTime":2703.098,"endTime":2706.73,"body":"I've been doing it all day. I'm not, I'm not. I hate that"},{"startTime":2706.762,"endTime":2710.554,"body":"I'm saying christians and. Right. But generally"},{"startTime":2710.594,"endTime":2714.034,"body":"speaking, I think this is really true. This came up at my kids school this"},{"startTime":2714.074,"endTime":2717.752,"body":"morning, this thing about yoga. What? Yoga? You don't think that's"},{"startTime":2717.858,"endTime":2721.636,"body":"sinful? And I'm like, I think that thought is ignorant. Did it"},{"startTime":2721.6600000000003,"endTime":2725.356,"body":"this morning. I think it's crazy that everybody knew it. Yeah. I think"},{"startTime":2725.38,"endTime":2728.7400000000002,"body":"it's neurobiologically sound. I think that anyone who can"},{"startTime":2728.9320000000002,"endTime":2732.6040000000003,"body":"get still and use the body to wrestle with God and find"},{"startTime":2732.6440000000002,"endTime":2735.324,"body":"their breath and move towards peace, I think that's"},{"startTime":2735.404,"endTime":2739.224,"body":"sanctification. I think that's sinful. Right."},{"startTime":2739.844,"endTime":2743.612,"body":"But I think that christians have lost track of a deep, meaningful relationship with"},{"startTime":2743.628,"endTime":2746.236,"body":"God. I think the whole reason Christ died on the cross for our sins was"},{"startTime":2746.26,"endTime":2750.044,"body":"so that we could have a personal relationship with him. And I don't think"},{"startTime":2750.0840000000003,"endTime":2753.724,"body":"most christians have a deep personal relationship. And I"},{"startTime":2753.764,"endTime":2757.284,"body":"think that christians are used to air"},{"startTime":2757.324,"endTime":2760.788,"body":"quotes, hearing God through anxiety"},{"startTime":2760.956,"endTime":2764.364,"body":"and shame, and they misinterpret the"},{"startTime":2764.404,"endTime":2767.904,"body":"emotional experience of anxiety and shame as conviction,"},{"startTime":2768.364,"endTime":2772.0840000000003,"body":"and they cannot, they don't know that"},{"startTime":2772.1240000000003,"endTime":2775.8920000000003,"body":"that's not how God speaks. And so when they hear something"},{"startTime":2775.948,"endTime":2779.492,"body":"like tarot or yoga or whatever it is, they immediately feel"},{"startTime":2779.5480000000002,"endTime":2783.228,"body":"shame and anxiety and therefore think that that"},{"startTime":2783.3160000000003,"endTime":2786.8920000000003,"body":"is not of God. And that's,"},{"startTime":2786.9880000000003,"endTime":2790.596,"body":"yeah, evil. Call it evil. I'm going to go a little bit,"},{"startTime":2790.6600000000003,"endTime":2793.6240000000003,"body":"not further. Just let put another layer on top of this"},{"startTime":2794.684,"endTime":2798.504,"body":"in fundamental christian evangelism."},{"startTime":2798.804,"endTime":2802.38,"body":"I don't know. I don't want to say Protestantism. Protestant churches,"},{"startTime":2802.492,"endTime":2805.784,"body":"christian conservative Protestantism."},{"startTime":2807.664,"endTime":2811.312,"body":"The idea that our job and a"},{"startTime":2811.328,"endTime":2814.684,"body":"mature Christian looks like a studier of the Bible,"},{"startTime":2815.1040000000003,"endTime":2818.84,"body":"that is what we call a good Christian. Go to church,"},{"startTime":2818.9120000000003,"endTime":2822.6800000000003,"body":"consume sermons. Well, even a regurgitator of"},{"startTime":2822.712,"endTime":2826.456,"body":"the Bible, maybe not even a study or a regurgitator. That's right. And this"},{"startTime":2826.52,"endTime":2830.168,"body":"idea that, that's what good christians go to Bible studies and listen to christian"},{"startTime":2830.216,"endTime":2833.896,"body":"music, and we pray to this box, what we call a good Christian, you"},{"startTime":2833.92,"endTime":2837.728,"body":"vote this way, you look this way, you act this way, whatever. And like,"},{"startTime":2837.7760000000003,"endTime":2841.3520000000003,"body":"I'm like, I look in scripture, I'm like, none of that's there. There's nowhere in"},{"startTime":2841.368,"endTime":2844.804,"body":"scripture to tell. We're like, everybody needs an accountability partner. But"},{"startTime":2845.464,"endTime":2849.0480000000002,"body":"Jesus didn't tell us. We did. But the concept's there."},{"startTime":2849.096,"endTime":2852.752,"body":"Discipleship, it's there, but there's. We take a little. We go a long way with"},{"startTime":2852.768,"endTime":2856.072,"body":"it. We also go with this, just this idea that we're supposed to wake up"},{"startTime":2856.088,"endTime":2859.856,"body":"every morning and study our Bible for an hour while 10"},{"startTime":2859.92,"endTime":2863.556,"body":"billion people live on this planet, they can't even read. That wasn't"},{"startTime":2863.58,"endTime":2867.26,"body":"God's plan. It wasn't. And we as christians, we were"},{"startTime":2867.292,"endTime":2870.524,"body":"quick to say, well, if this is what a good Christian looks like, then anything"},{"startTime":2870.5640000000003,"endTime":2874.284,"body":"else must be bad. And what you and I are saying is, pull"},{"startTime":2874.324,"endTime":2877.956,"body":"yourself out of christian culturalism. Yes. Seek"},{"startTime":2878.02,"endTime":2881.668,"body":"God and just seek God and be"},{"startTime":2881.716,"endTime":2885.436,"body":"open. Right. You know that old joke about I prayed for a. I prayed for"},{"startTime":2885.46,"endTime":2889.172,"body":"God to rescue me in the flood and then he sent a canoe and I"},{"startTime":2889.188,"endTime":2892.806,"body":"said, nope, I'm waiting for. For God. He's in a helicopter. Nope, I'm waiting for"},{"startTime":2892.83,"endTime":2895.114,"body":"God. That's that, right? And"},{"startTime":2897.174,"endTime":2900.8540000000003,"body":"yeah, God speaks to us in so many ways, and I can't tell you"},{"startTime":2900.8940000000002,"endTime":2904.654,"body":"how often. And studying the law of attraction is what really helped"},{"startTime":2904.694,"endTime":2908.382,"body":"me understand this about the nature of God, that"},{"startTime":2908.438,"endTime":2911.982,"body":"God is going to send us solutions all the time and"},{"startTime":2911.998,"endTime":2915.8140000000003,"body":"then can we receive them? Can we receive"},{"startTime":2915.8940000000002,"endTime":2919.734,"body":"God's love? Because it is all around us all the time. But when"},{"startTime":2919.774,"endTime":2923.248,"body":"we're shame based or fear based, which most of the planet"},{"startTime":2923.2960000000003,"endTime":2926.7760000000003,"body":"is, we cannot receive God"},{"startTime":2926.92,"endTime":2930.112,"body":"because we're so, you know,"},{"startTime":2930.248,"endTime":2933.856,"body":"narrowly dialed into this fear and shame bit that keeps us"},{"startTime":2933.88,"endTime":2937.456,"body":"stuck. And so I think back to what you said a few minutes ago, which"},{"startTime":2937.48,"endTime":2941.184,"body":"was, you know, I just want to highlight is that through my divorce, through"},{"startTime":2941.224,"endTime":2944.364,"body":"burning it all down, is where, you know, I"},{"startTime":2944.984,"endTime":2948.096,"body":"found the work or became committed to the work. And I think for people, especially"},{"startTime":2948.1600000000003,"endTime":2951.92,"body":"who are so self reliant and so capable. That's how God works."},{"startTime":2951.952,"endTime":2955.448,"body":"That's how it works. He brings us to our knees till we are"},{"startTime":2955.496,"endTime":2959.2000000000003,"body":"humble enough to truly, truly surrender. And in that"},{"startTime":2959.232,"endTime":2962.896,"body":"surrendered place, we get open, open, open, open. And in that surrendered"},{"startTime":2962.92,"endTime":2966.768,"body":"place, you know what? I reached for yoga, and that's God"},{"startTime":2966.8160000000003,"endTime":2970.536,"body":"working through my life. And I celebrate those moments. You know, I"},{"startTime":2970.56,"endTime":2974.324,"body":"call myself a sadistic therapist because when people are breaking, I'm like,"},{"startTime":2974.6240000000003,"endTime":2978.448,"body":"yeah, right. No, I love it. No, that's funny. I want"},{"startTime":2978.456,"endTime":2981.824,"body":"to add something here, especially people who, you know,"},{"startTime":2982.444,"endTime":2986.236,"body":"I live in the fundamental christian world, but I'm probably"},{"startTime":2986.34,"endTime":2990.188,"body":"way more edgy than most people there. But I would say for those"},{"startTime":2990.236,"endTime":2993.884,"body":"listening that are struggling with the idea of, like, well, you can find God anywhere."},{"startTime":2993.924,"endTime":2997.156,"body":"Okay, I will say this. If something contradicts the"},{"startTime":2997.1800000000003,"endTime":3000.82,"body":"Bible, I'm out. The Bible trumps for me. Like, obviously"},{"startTime":3000.8520000000003,"endTime":3004.652,"body":"if I heard somebody outside, I got some what I would call"},{"startTime":3004.708,"endTime":3008.422,"body":"truth. Or, I don't buy people who say, well, the Lord told me"},{"startTime":3008.438,"endTime":3012.19,"body":"this. I'm like, and that contradicts scripture, so it can't be right. But just because"},{"startTime":3012.222,"endTime":3016.0060000000003,"body":"it contradicts your church, you can pastor"},{"startTime":3016.19,"endTime":3019.694,"body":"or what you grew up in challenge those"},{"startTime":3019.774,"endTime":3023.558,"body":"things. But yeah, let the Bible trumpet. But you'll be"},{"startTime":3023.606,"endTime":3027.446,"body":"surprised what's not in the Bible. That we act like it's. It's"},{"startTime":3027.4700000000003,"endTime":3031.038,"body":"the same problem. Jesus dealt with the Pharisees because they. Were ripping the whole time."},{"startTime":3031.0860000000002,"endTime":3034.806,"body":"And he's like, yes, I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm disobeying your laws. That"},{"startTime":3034.83,"endTime":3038.216,"body":"doesn't make me disobedient. Yes, well said. Me and"},{"startTime":3038.2400000000002,"endTime":3041.992,"body":"God. Well said. Wow. Okay. We can go"},{"startTime":3042.0080000000003,"endTime":3045.656,"body":"on forever, and we will, because we're gonna have another podcast, right? Yes."},{"startTime":3045.8,"endTime":3049.632,"body":"But for those listening who came in on the topic of their"},{"startTime":3049.808,"endTime":3052.804,"body":"marriage is in a whirlwind"},{"startTime":3053.464,"endTime":3057.304,"body":"and they don't know what to do. They're contemplating just"},{"startTime":3057.384,"endTime":3060.8,"body":"running from the problem, like, I'll just get a divorce. But that comes"},{"startTime":3060.832,"endTime":3064.58,"body":"with deep ramifications. Deep ramifications."},{"startTime":3064.652,"endTime":3067.612,"body":"What do you recommend? Like, what's the next step? What do you want them to"},{"startTime":3067.628,"endTime":3070.284,"body":"do? How can they even get a hold of you? Or where do you want"},{"startTime":3070.284,"endTime":3073.716,"body":"to point them? Like, that's a big answer, but I'm turning it over. You what?"},{"startTime":3073.78,"endTime":3077.364,"body":"Yeah. I would say that God can"},{"startTime":3077.444,"endTime":3080.744,"body":"redeem anything, but"},{"startTime":3081.404,"endTime":3084.98,"body":"becoming redeemed is a choice, and he gave us that"},{"startTime":3085.012,"endTime":3088.5,"body":"choice. And so you cannot make that choice for your"},{"startTime":3088.532,"endTime":3092.1820000000002,"body":"partner, but you can make a choice for yourself to be redeemed."},{"startTime":3092.2380000000003,"endTime":3095.966,"body":"And perhaps in the process of you becoming redeemed, your"},{"startTime":3095.9900000000002,"endTime":3099.734,"body":"marriage will become redeemed. And if it doesn't, then don't"},{"startTime":3099.774,"endTime":3103.518,"body":"sweat it, because you can't choose redemption for anyone"},{"startTime":3103.5660000000003,"endTime":3106.966,"body":"else. That is a deeply personal choice, and that was a God given"},{"startTime":3107.03,"endTime":3110.846,"body":"design. And so if you"},{"startTime":3110.9100000000003,"endTime":3114.714,"body":"want more information about healing root issues,"},{"startTime":3116.224,"endTime":3119.728,"body":"definitely come find me. Right. Your"},{"startTime":3119.7760000000003,"endTime":3123.288,"body":"information, if you're listening to this, it's in the show notes. It's below the YouTube"},{"startTime":3123.3360000000002,"endTime":3126.656,"body":"video. Like, yeah, your links will be here. So if you're listening."},{"startTime":3126.76,"endTime":3130.456,"body":"Yes. Look below. Yes. I have a therapy practice where I"},{"startTime":3130.48,"endTime":3134.2960000000003,"body":"see, you know, patients one on one. And I actually have my own podcast,"},{"startTime":3134.36,"endTime":3138.016,"body":"dear Divorce Diary, which is obviously for folks who. But not"},{"startTime":3138.04,"endTime":3141.7760000000003,"body":"necessarily. It's a therapy podcast. Right. But with the pain point of divorce, because that's"},{"startTime":3141.8,"endTime":3144.728,"body":"where I dug in and did the work. But we talk about all this stuff"},{"startTime":3144.7760000000003,"endTime":3148.442,"body":"on in there. Yeah. Love it. I love it. This is so good. Okay,"},{"startTime":3148.618,"endTime":3152.3540000000003,"body":"part two coming up. Thank you so much for your time. There's a lot"},{"startTime":3152.3940000000002,"endTime":3156.018,"body":"to delve into, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna latch on to what you said"},{"startTime":3156.106,"endTime":3159.8740000000003,"body":"is that people need to know this. People"},{"startTime":3159.954,"endTime":3163.594,"body":"need to. Yeah. As christians, once again, for the"},{"startTime":3163.634,"endTime":3167.4500000000003,"body":"hundredth time, we think our pastor is the man of"},{"startTime":3167.482,"endTime":3171.13,"body":"God. What he's reading out of the Bible, not to question. He doesn't"},{"startTime":3171.202,"endTime":3174.52,"body":"always read scripture verbatim. He gives a lot of"},{"startTime":3174.552,"endTime":3178.32,"body":"opinions. And those people, 95% of the people on stage"},{"startTime":3178.3520000000003,"endTime":3181.76,"body":"has never been divorced, and so what do they know?"},{"startTime":3181.832,"endTime":3185.552,"body":"And. And, Todd, let's get really honest. We're opening a"},{"startTime":3185.568,"endTime":3188.712,"body":"whole nother loop at the very end of the episode. We are. Let's get really"},{"startTime":3188.768,"endTime":3192.2960000000003,"body":"honest for those of us that are on stages. Because you're on a"},{"startTime":3192.32,"endTime":3196.044,"body":"stage, I'm on a stage. We tend towards"},{"startTime":3196.544,"endTime":3199.842,"body":"being egocentric. I am"},{"startTime":3199.898,"endTime":3203.7380000000003,"body":"predisposed as someone who is built first. I was built for a stage. God"},{"startTime":3203.786,"endTime":3207.61,"body":"gave me this gift. To be able to be on a stage"},{"startTime":3207.6420000000003,"endTime":3210.534,"body":"and be charismatic and draw people to me,"},{"startTime":3211.954,"endTime":3214.986,"body":"that very quickly turns into an egoic"},{"startTime":3215.09,"endTime":3217.974,"body":"journey. So pastors"},{"startTime":3218.434,"endTime":3222.002,"body":"automatically need to. We need to have that"},{"startTime":3222.058,"endTime":3225.554,"body":"lens of, like, is this a leader who's"},{"startTime":3225.594,"endTime":3229.116,"body":"truly humble and leading from a place of a deep,"},{"startTime":3229.1800000000003,"endTime":3232.98,"body":"personal, humble relationship with God, or is this person crossed that line"},{"startTime":3233.012,"endTime":3236.716,"body":"into that egoic space? And, you know, it's not my job to take"},{"startTime":3236.7400000000002,"endTime":3240.404,"body":"that person's inventory, but I need to know that about pastors. Does that make"},{"startTime":3240.444,"endTime":3244.284,"body":"sense? It totally does. Which is why Jesus says pastors will be judged"},{"startTime":3244.324,"endTime":3247.812,"body":"differently. Like, they will be. He goes, you're going to be graded on occur because"},{"startTime":3247.868,"endTime":3251.5640000000003,"body":"of everything you just said, Jesus knows this. He goes, that's"},{"startTime":3251.6040000000003,"endTime":3254.708,"body":"why you are held to a higher standard. Higher"},{"startTime":3254.7560000000003,"endTime":3258.574,"body":"standard. And then you pair that with, the meek shall inherit the earth."},{"startTime":3258.614,"endTime":3262.154,"body":"Right? Because the meek are not egoic there, right?"},{"startTime":3262.774,"endTime":3266.4700000000003,"body":"Yeah. So call me out anytime on the. It's the thing"},{"startTime":3266.502,"endTime":3270.2380000000003,"body":"that I hold myself accountable for the most is, am I doing"},{"startTime":3270.286,"endTime":3273.4300000000003,"body":"this for the right reasons? Am I still right? Like, is this about"},{"startTime":3273.582,"endTime":3277.158,"body":"vanity or is this about glorifying God? And I think that"},{"startTime":3277.206,"endTime":3279.71,"body":"anyone who spends a lot of time on stage, as you ask them that question,"},{"startTime":3279.742,"endTime":3282.594,"body":"it's going to, you know, it might depend on the day, right, that it gets"},{"startTime":3282.694,"endTime":3286.402,"body":"muddy. Sometimes it gets muddy. And sometimes you get ritualistic and you're"},{"startTime":3286.418,"endTime":3290.098,"body":"just like, okay, here's the same speech. But in essence,"},{"startTime":3290.146,"endTime":3293.938,"body":"when you, your daily conversation with God, I remind myself,"},{"startTime":3294.0260000000003,"endTime":3297.65,"body":"too, my, sometimes I'll get into the weeds of being a podcast"},{"startTime":3297.722,"endTime":3301.2580000000003,"body":"producer, if you will. And then I'll get an email from somebody who's like, just"},{"startTime":3301.306,"endTime":3305.018,"body":"going through it. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's why I do this. I forget"},{"startTime":3305.106,"endTime":3308.858,"body":"sometimes. I do. Beautifully said. All right. All right. Thank you. So"},{"startTime":3308.906,"endTime":3312.652,"body":"thank you for your time. Yeah. Information about you and how to get a hold"},{"startTime":3312.668,"endTime":3316.068,"body":"of you will be below this, and we will continue this conversation. I don't"},{"startTime":3316.076,"endTime":3317.864,"body":"know. Thank you."},{"startTime":3320.404,"endTime":3320.6440000000002,"body":"Bye."}]}