Who Pays the Price When Educational Systems Change?

Father and son duo tackle the controversial dismantling of the Department of Education, dispelling misconceptions and exploring potential consequences for students nationwide. They examine how this executive order could widen educational gaps between states and impact vulnerable students, especially those requiring special education services or living in underserved communities.

• Department of Education doesn't control curriculum - states have always determined what's taught in schools
• The Department was created to establish national standards and promote equal access to quality education
• Dismantling this federal agency could disproportionately affect students in rural communities and those with special needs
• IEPs (Individual Education Programs) have provided crucial support for learning disabilities, speech therapy, and other educational interventions
• Parents should engage youth in conversations about these changes since they're already hearing about them through social media
• Having uncomfortable conversations with empathy and openness creates stronger family connections
• Maintaining mental health during uncertain times requires self-awareness and appropriate coping strategies

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Transcript

Introduction and Mental Health Perspective

Zion 0:00

Sorry , here we go .

Jamal 0:22

Yo , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . Let's put the smile on my face .

Zion 0:28

Right Now we back to it . You know what I'm saying . I'm sitting over here on this side . I got the up to it side working , so that's good news . Okay , okay , okay , let's tell them what we're talking about today , because we about to get her real . Yeah , I mean , I think we got some different viewpoints maybe on this or some .

Jamal 0:44

Let's tell them what we're talking about today , because we've got to get her real . Yeah , I mean , I think we got some different viewpoints maybe on this or some thoughts , and guests kind of want to get people's feedback a little bit too on how they're feeling and thinking about just some of the things that are going on out there , right , and when we talk about things from a mental health perspective and we talk about things from , um , you know , parenting , and so I guess what z and I are doing really doing this live is giving you a little bit of an insight and how some of our conversations have gone through the years . So we're just gonna have a conversation . Uh , one of the things that we were talking about and touching on Zee and I was this whole idea , because one of the things that I was telling Zee about was the notion of people misunderstanding when we talk about mental health and why we think it's important for people to understand that they have mental health and what are the strategies to deal with mental health challenges on a day-to-day basis .

Jamal 1:48

And some of the feedback that I've seen out there in the world is that people misinterpret it as being weak or that we may be preaching that people can't overcome or should not deal with challenges , and that's not the case

Misunderstandings About the Department of Education

Jamal 2:10

when we talk about mental health .

Jamal 2:11

We're talking about that people need to embrace and endure those challenges that happen in their lives , but that we also need to help them have tools to cope with those challenges , and sometimes that may mean taking a breather for a second or stepping back , and so by no means , when we talk about it , are we saying that it's an excuse to not do something or not go through anything that might be hard .

Jamal 2:43

Go through anything that might be hard . So just wanted to make that clear , like when we talk about it and what it means to us and for us , and what we're sharing with people . Because life is hard , it's going to happen , you can't escape , shouldn't run from it , and so when we talk about life being hard , we're going through some challenges as a nation , right , and there's a lot of things that are happening that will impact us individually and impact our families and impact our communities , and you know we've just been hearing about a lot of cuts to staffing situations with federal government agencies , yeah , and so I think that's something you wanted to talk a little bit about .

Zion 3:32

Yeah , 100% . I think one of the biggest things that's been brought up to our attention has been the cutting and the abolishment of the Department of Education and just the misunderstanding of what the Department of Education actually is and what it isn't right . And I think there is a lot of people that are gung-ho about the president's decision to cut and abolish this entity because they believe that this is the entity that controls curriculum and controls what's being taught in classes for all states throughout the nation , and that , right , there is a misunderstanding of what the Department of Education is . Right , we know that the Department of Education isn't in charge of curriculum at all . Those in charge of the curriculum are the states . The states get to decide what gets implemented into their public schools and their charter schools and stuff like that of what needs to be followed in the guidelines . So that's already controlled by the state .

Zion 4:40

And one of the things that we talked yesterday that I keep hearing is that the other argument is well , people kept every time I talk to somebody about high school they said , dang , I wish I would have learned about that in high school . I wish they would have taught that in school . I'm glad that the Department of Education is getting cut because now we can reimagine what the Department of Education looks like , or something along those lines . You said something that was interesting to me yesterday . You said something I'm not going to quote you word for word , but it was like , well , you don't know what you want to learn until you need to learn it Right , until you have that skill .

Zion 5:26

But the reason why we want to focus on this and why this cuts and the wording is abolishing or dismantling of the Department of Education , is because I believe I won't speak for my dad I believe that it could potentially lead to more harm than good for our students that are low income , that don't have access to the same resources . So , pop , that's really where . With all of that , what is your ?

Jamal 6:01

Yeah , I think

State Control vs. National Standards

Jamal 6:02

so . I think , yeah , the Department of Education holds a lot of responsibility and I think what , from what I understand and you know , far as setting guidelines and standards in which states and school districts should follow and adhere to , so that the so that everybody was basically trying to to have the same goal with eradicating or getting rid of Department of Education , that changes right . So now one state can do it one way , another state can do it another way , the other state's going to do it that way , so that can create a gap in what learning you know needs to actually occur . So what are the standards ? The standards that will be set in Arizona will be maybe different than the ones in Mississippi or Chicago or Atlanta or New York or Connecticut , and so , and then also , you know , they also help with the money that goes into that . So , point being , like , arizona is the 49th out of 50th , uh is 49 on the uh as far as uh funding for education , right , arizona . So , um , I don't know , I mean we , we get money , but I mean the question is you know how's our state going to fare ? Will it do better ? I don't think so , but it may .

Jamal 7:46

You know , in sharing what or how monies are , you know , dedicated towards education , and so you know , we look at the rural areas throughout our nation . You know our state's going to want to put more money into that , but at least with the Department of Education it was saying that , hey , we're going to give you a fair shake at this and have some type of standard that you have to meet . So that just goes to the point of , again , I think , certain states that make a decision of where that falls for them as far as importance , that falls for them as far as importance , in addition , all the things they have , I , I , I am a little nervous about that and I think a point that you know you made is you know , then , if states have it upon themselves to decide what is taught and what is not taught ? You know , again , there's no national standard , or ?

Zion 8:56

accountability national accountability right .

Jamal 8:59

Some states I think you were saying like might say hey , we're not going to talk about the history of black folks whatsoever , and then there there might be others that that lean more into it .

Zion 9:15

I think you bring up a good point , too , with the whole now DEI initiative being taken away . Now there is no accountability for , because what could have been the argument maybe two months ago was okay , well , if you want to learn about Mexican history , mexican-american history , go take the Mexican-American history class instead of taking this US government class , but now that's not even an option for students . Now , whatever the state decides , it's , you're learning this and this is how you're going to learn it . Right , there's no variety or diversity of messaging for people that maybe need to learn more about that history . And I want to really state , because we are the parenting , mental health , drug prevention crew and I think one of the things that people don't really understand is that also the Department of Education ,

IEPs and Special Education Resources

Zion 10:12

we're funding those with IEPs . And tell me what the definition , you know what IEP stands for .

Zion 10:20

I forget right now .

Jamal 10:21

Individual yes .

Zion 10:24

Individual education program , Program plan . So with that we were able to hire a lot more support for students that had learning disabilities , had ADD , ADHD , OCD , dyslexia , all of those things . Speech therapy , speech therapy . The reason why I want to harp on that one a little bit is because I benefited from having access to that . Right , I benefited having access to speech therapy at a young age and that was something that was transformational for me as a as a youth , formidable for me as a youth . So when we talk about dismantling and abolishing , we really have to understand what are the consequences of this . Is it and I don't know , dad , this might be challenging for some parents to hear , but is it because you're uncomfortable with the realness of the conversations now ? Hmm , Is it ? Are you uncomfortable with us talking about the realities of life today ? And if you are uncomfortable with that , that isn't something you take out on other children , other people's children .

Jamal 11:44

Right Right , right right .

Zion 11:46

I laugh because the reason , the reason why this is kind of comical is because some of the people that are voting against this or that are happy that this happened have no youth in the education system right now . They're retired , they've done their thing . They had access to some of these resources because they were around . Right right right resources because they were around . But man , it's upsetting because I feel like those people , the older folks , have been putting our younger folks in situations that are super unhealthy .

Jamal 12:24

Right , and I think the other thing that I got to do some more research on again , we're talking about this live right now .

Jamal 12:29

I haven't had an opportunity to really dive into it as much as I would like to . But is you know , there was a reason that it was established , the Department of Education ? There was a reason that it came about . It wasn't just that it just happened . There was something that occurred that our nation recognized that , hey , this is something that we need .

Jamal 12:54

And so , again , what we tend to do talk about education is not knowing our history and end up making the same mistakes again because we don't know our history . We just look at it from where we're standing now and say , oh no , that's good , that's good . Let's just , you know , uh , reduce government and but not fully understanding why was this put in place ? And so there was a reason for that , and I think we need to to be cautious , because , in furthering the gap between the haves and the have-nots , I think the Department of Education was trying to help minimize that not be able to solve it , but at least minimize it , because we are going to need educated folks across our nation to be a great nation . That's so good .

Jamal 13:55

Equally , I love that there should be no difference between Atlanta or Georgia , north Carolina , california ,

Historical Purpose of Department of Education

Jamal 14:05

michigan or Idaho , michigan or Idaho . There should be a standard that we're all trying to reach so that we can be a great nation or continue to do so , and I don't think we understand the unintended consequences in doing this . I don't think we've had a conversation about it as a nation , of what does it really mean to cut this , and it's just coming kind of out of left field . I don't think I've heard anybody on the campaign trail ever talk about really getting rid of it , other than Trump . That just came out this last . What six months , eight months or whatever it's like wait what ?

Jamal 14:52

why are we talking about this or whatever ? Um , and so that's this .

Zion 14:57

Uh well , my thought and concern , just again I love that you bring that up right , because this is there's a cool skill that we have access to now in 2024 , 2025 , in the , in the 2020s , right , where , in a day of information , in a day of information . We were laughing yesterday because we were talking a little bit about this , but you know , we're music fans here and my dad was like , you know , back in the day , you know , krs-one would . The rapper would say open up a book , read about your history , learn about your history , go to the library , hang out in the library Now , fast forward to 2025 , yo , if you want to answer to something , you know how quick you can plug it into the Google and Google , like Google , is free y'all . And I don't say that to be condescending , I don't say that to be like , but it's like for real . Like , use the resources here that are handed to you , one of the biggest , newest resources .

Zion 15:59

And while you were talking , you wanted to know why was the department of education created in the first place ? Right , I plugged that into chat gpt . That's what I did and here's what it said . It says to centralize the strength of federal education support . To centralize and strengthen the federal education support . To improve the quality of education . Its goal was to elevate the importance of education nationwide , collect data on schools , identify what works and help and improve outcomes for all students , especially those in underserved communities . And then Great , I'm pretty smart .

Zion 16:37

Man you know a little something , something .

Jamal 16:39

I am chat GPT .

Zion 16:43

And then you hit it on the head with the finishing touch because you said you hit it on the head with the finishing touch because you said to promote equal access , to promote equal access to the same education , so that it wasn't . Let's be real , you can't , we can't . Right now . A lot of us cannot get up and move to a different state If the education is bad . You first have to find a job that may be aligned with that . You followed to that state . You would have to leave some family behind . It's a lot more sacrifice , right , and if it boils down to it , I know some of you will have no problem making that sacrifice . But what about those parents in rural communities and I love that you brought up rural communities because I get to spend a lot of time in these rural communities and with that you notice the disparities in that versus somebody else and they tend to get overlooked because of whatever prejudice , whatever idea we have of rural communities . But if they want their kid to go to college and get an education and they want them to perform well , it's harder for those parents or guardians because most of them , some of these people in rural communities , they're being raised by their grandparents , and that's honest right . Or they're being raised by a single , and that's honest right . Or they're being raised by a single family , single family member , and some are not . Yeah , some are not , but there's .

Zion 18:18

I don't know the numbers and I could probably pull up the numbers I wanted to , but they can't just pick up and go . It's not as easy as people make it seem , especially now , where you need and and on top of that , when you want to move to a different city or state that has better education , the cost of living is going to be higher , right ? Because now we're going to have to tax heavy property taxes , for whatever reason , to fund public education as a whole , or whatever that may look like . I don't know what the schooling will look like if this does actually happen , but I can imagine the parent stress that comes with that , and they're already stressed out already . I can imagine the student uncertainty when it comes to that . So maybe operating uh , fight , flight or freeze mode more frequently . So is this really gonna benefit us in the long run ? And we already are in a mental health , a youth mental health crisis and an epidemic as we speak .

Jamal 19:23

So are we doing them a disservice by putting this more on them and on their plate yeah , no , I think it's uh , yeah , I think there's more to come on it , um , and again , the other thing that you kind of mentioned at the beginning that needs to be realized is this is an executive order , um , and it is mean meaning that it's kind of a test um . I don't think any president that I'm aware of has done as many executive orders to dismantle , take apart , get rid of federal agencies through executive orders . This is not a law . It'll still have to go through Congress , but while this presidency is occurring , it will have to take effect , and so we'll get to see what this does , and it's almost like a live experiment in real time that it could be dangerous . And in order for us to continue to be a great nation , I think we might be taking away some of the scaffolding that helps us to be so and at least trying to , uh , at least maintain some type of E ? Uh , equality um , nationwide , a standard um . Are people hitting it ? No , but at least it's a goal right , um , and which was being set . I mean , with no goal um , you don't know where you're going , and , yes

Mental Health Strategies During Uncertain Times

Jamal 21:14

, there's tons of things that could probably be done better , always in any business , in any family . So it does make me nervous extremely of what this will do , and there's nothing we can do about it , so we just have to roll with it , um , and maintain our um , our sanity and our um .

Jamal 21:46

And I think again , when we talk about mental health , like I opened up in the beginning , it's not saying that we're not going to go through difficult challenges or times in our lives . But what is it that you're going to do to make sure that you're maintaining some type of equilibrium ? Is that remaining positive ? Is that making sure that you have , you know , words of affirmation for yourself , for your family , for your friends , for yourself , for your family , for your friends ? Is it making sure that you know you take a moment to breathe . Maybe it's taking a moment to step away from social media . Maybe it's taking a minute to not read the news , maybe it's some you know journaling and checking in with your you know your emotions and where you're at , which actually reminds me .

Jamal 22:33

There's an app that you all should check out , called Brightn , that actually does that as far as maybe journaling or keeping track of your emotions and where you're going and being able to document how you're feeling and being also able to connect and get feedback from this particular app that could give you some pointers or some ideas or some tips or suggestions on what you could do , if you're feeling a certain way , that are positive , and that app is called Brightn . We'll drop that information in the in a in in full transparency . Yes , we are partnered with them , but we won't believe that this is a tool that can can can help many people out there and , you know , being able to to support their , their mental health , because it is important . And so that's what I would want to say about where we are now . We're in these times where there's a lot of experiments happening and , for good or not , you know that's , it's just where we're at , but we need to have a standard .

Zion 23:53

Yeah , yeah , I like it . I like how you summarized and wrap us up there , I think . In summary , for me it's having conversations like these , right , and I think that's you know . We can't do anything from a no . We can't go up to the White House and do whatever and make them change their mind , whatever , right , we can't . That's , that's out of our control . But what is our control is to be in community and to continue to educate people in love .

Zion 24:27

Right , and I think that's what we were talking about yesterday is it's easy for me and it's easy for my pop to get up on this platform and on this live stream and tell you just how idiotic and stupid everybody is that voted for this to happen and whatever , whatever . But the second you say that , right , the second you say that it makes somebody defensive , it makes them . I don't want to learn , I don't want to hear your side , I don't want to hear your perspective , and I know I get it . It's tiring because it seems like you're reiterating things and it seems like it's never going to fix itself or resolve itself . But you never know . You never know what that one tidbit of information can go and how far it could go for that person . So that's what we're going to do here at Up To it go for that person . So that's what we're going to do here at Up To it .

Zion 25:16

That's what we're going to do as a family is we're going to continue to have and lean into our tougher conversations where sometimes me and my dad I mean you can kind of sometimes see it in some podcasts , but we don't see eye to eye on everything and he challenges me as I challenges him , but it's always in love , it's never out of spite , it's trying to see his perspective , it's him trying to see my perspective .

Zion 25:39

So what I challenge adults and parents and guardians that are in this live today is ask your youth what are you , how do you feel about what's going on right now ? Because you might be like , oh , they're kids , they don't know what's going on , but the second they have access to the worldwide web and social media and TikTok . They're seeing these things . So get a pulse from your child hey , how do you feel about this ? What do you know about this ? And lean in to that uncomfortable conversation where you know my pop

Having Tough Conversations with Youth

Zion 26:12

has been . My pop and my mom have both been honest with me when maybe I proved them wrong and they've been very like you know what . I didn't see it from that perspective and hey you know what I did some more

Zion 26:23

research on that and it turns out you know what I get it now and that takes some humility and that takes some strength and vulnerability , but when you're able to do that and show that to your youth , it allows them to know that , oh , it's okay to be wrong and it's okay to change your perspective on things when you get the proper education and resources around you . So that's what I challenge our parents to do . If you are an up-to-it parent or guardian , I challenge you to lean into that uncomfortable conversation and our whole thing right is tough conversations for stronger connections , because that's what can come out of it . And , with that being said again , please sign up for brian . Uh , right now , mental health is who is so important with all the things that are going on . So I'm gonna reiterate what my pop said such a great app . I use it every day . Wake up , I do the mood check-in .

Zion 27:16

Like my pop said , we are affiliated with the brand . So , yes , if you do use our code and stuff like that , we do get a percentage and a kickback of whatever . But , man , we wouldn't partner with a brand if we thought it was going to steer you in the wrong direction . Let's just be honest . We vouched for this . We had the CEO , jeff Johnston , come on on our podcast and he talked to us about it , and even closed doors . He's just somebody that believes in up to it as much as we believe in , uh , brightn . So , with that being said , man , we we up here in the 30 minute mark .

Zion 27:45

We had a whole lot of people joined the live . You can't see it on your end , pop , but I I see it on my end . We had about like 15 , 20 people show up for our first one . So , hey , we got to clap it up for that . That's pretty good for the first one . Hey , you know what I'm saying . We did pretty good . Next time we'll have our technical stuff down pat and we'll be able to end it .

Zion 28:06

Producer back there . Producer , right , right , right , right . So we're going to do it out like that . But yo , it's march madness , and don't forget , you know , the boys got a game today and I see you wearing the blue already . I see , I see you , I like it . So we go on , we bear down over here . Um , hopefully , a national championship would be nice . I don't know , I'm a that I'm gonna out you because , uh , real quick , I looked at your brackets in the family bracket thing , you did not pick one love bracket for u of a you have , no , you have . You don't have u of a at least in one bracket winning the championship ?

Zion 28:38

yeah , they ain't quite ready I love them I love them .

Jamal 28:41

I love them . But you know , you know they , yeah , they missing some pieces , uh , uh we . But next year we I had .

Zion 28:53

I had to out my pocket , actually , and my mom's Mom's didn't even pick . Usually what happens in these family brackets is my mom and dad at least have one bracket that they dedicate to the year they win .

Jamal 29:05

And this year they decided to . What had happened was I've been working on three different grants and I'd had time , so I had to do the auto pick .

Zion 29:16

Oh , truth comes out . Truth comes out Autofill .

Jamal 29:18

So I didn't really have time to sit down and mastermind my pick . So I wanted to make sure I had an opportunity to get bragging rights in the family bracket pool . So so sorry U of A , but I love y'all . Y'all know I'm down with y'all . I love y'all .

Zion 29:32

Y'all know I'm down with y'all man . All right , man , we got to get out of here . Yeah , we're going to get up out of here , man , we hope y'all have a great rest of your day and we're going to get out of here , peace , peace .